I think the nail in the coffin for this corner was when the smoking ban was instilled. Dickies had to jerry-rig some sort of smoking tent that really didn't offer the same high level of charm or safety that the cabbies were accustomed to inside the donut shoppe proper
I see a couple people above mentioned both Joe Golombek in regard to this issue. If you want to know what kind of vision he has for this site, then you need to be reminded of the hilarious completely out of touch suggestion he made at a council meeting in regard to the Gates Circle Condo. In all seriousness, he suggested this very location for the condo tower to be built rather than Gates Circle. This is your representative at work. It led me to realize how out of touch with reality this guy is. Does he really think that people would pay 400k and up to a million to live on this industrial corner? Not exactly our best and brightest.
This is exactly the kind of stupid thinking that permeates this site:
"Put a nice 3 story office building with some real jobs and maybe retail on the first floor....BUT WHAT BUFFALO AND KENMORE NEED ARE PLACES TO GO TO WORK EVERYDAY."
Like building a 3 story building here will magically create jobs? See, this is how it works in places not named Buffalo...Company A says, "Hey. we need office space. Let's look around and see what's available. Hmmm, nothing really suits our needs, lets build."
They call a developer, scout locations, look for incentives and tax breaks, and build.
In this town, we seem to think that we are the puppetmasters of economic development and there are these mythical companies just lying in wait for office space.
"Hmm, let's put up an office building and hope someone shows up to rent it"
Detroit,
that only could be an explanation (or excuse) for not redeveloping one location. what about the remainder of the 28 properties?
If not the previous occupants, the property owners should have to pay for the clean-up. Period. They should be forced to do it sooner rather than later. The longer that stuff seeps, the bigger the clean up costs will be.
Too bad Geico didn't open a call center here instead of having a section of Amherst designated into an Empire Zone for the sole purpose of cheap land for Mister Buffett and his propaganda team.
in the very near term, and easiest way to start some pressure would be to submit a complaint to the mayors call resolution center for unshoveled walks, high grass, litter, etc.
while not exactly seizing the property w/ eminent domain, it does let owners know people are paying attention.
see: http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Applications/ComplaintForm/default.aspx
clearly, a long term plan to redevelop this corner would require pressure from the EVA, Hertel Business Assoc, Councilmember Golombek, the majors office, etc . . . will that even work? who knows.
This is not a Benderson Property.
This is owned by the Deny Family. They own a lot of real estate in this part of town. Mainly broken down industrial bldgs.
They are some of the most difficult people to deal with. I can think of 1,000 national companies that would love to build here. Signalized corner, high traffic counts, lots of roof tops.
Queenseye.....call the Deny family, ask them what there plans are, tell us what type of reception you receive from them. I think his name is Frank.
FRANK DENI and or JFD HOLDINGS comboned own 28 properties in the immediate area, HERTEL AVE, NORRIS ST. CHANDLER ST. according to city records. Many are industrial buildings, vacant lots and even some residential houses .After years !! of sitting vacant, you would think that the city would put pressure on him to EITHER DEVELOP OR SELL this corner. Deni seems to just sit back and gamble on the prospect of his properties become more valuable without putting one red cent of investment into them....especially this viable commercial corner. HOPEFULLY the city will continue to keep the hucksters off this corner..who pay no taxes or fees, licenses etc...stealing $$ from legitimate business' who in fact do. MAYBE a few summonse' issued TO THE OWNER will motivate him to monitor this corner more effectively. I know in the past that there have been complaints from AREA BUSINESS ASSOCIATIONS AND Councilman Golombek has helped in keeping this corner clear of this type of nonsense. The city needs to put pressure on Deni to clean and spruce this corner eyesore up....if anything else...perhaps putting pressure on him to sell or develop. I'm sure there are effective ways for the city to promote some type of movement here on the use of this large vacant lot!
Has anyone ever seen the Park-N-Ride lot on Main St in Clarence(I think it's called Clarence Hallow). It's actually pretty nice(ok it's still a parking lot). Could this property serve as one? People from N Bflo, Tonawanda, Kenmore could use it. The ONLY thing the one in Clarence gets used for is for their Farmers Market, this one might actually be used for park and ride.
Re: pollution. The ground may well be contaminated (most likely is) but it's doubtful anyone knows anything substantive. If Deni (or any previos owner) had done any serious investigation and discovered serious contamination he would be obligated to begin remediation (and then such an owner would be free to track down and sue any previous owner who caused the contamination, but that's a recipe for financial hemoraging). Most likely Deni realizes (or supposes) the ground has pollution issues but he has no specific quantification of same and so is not required to take action. (Any environmental firm which conducted any study would be obligated to inform NYS DEA of any issues that were serious and this in turn would lead to the requirement of a cleanup plan. If the conditions were contaminated but not so seriously as to require remediation then the DEA would send a 'no further action required' letter, but they'd still keep track of the site in case regulations changed). Cleanup for a contaminated gas station can easily run $100,000 or more but as someone above mentioned to the right user that's just a cost of doing business. Tanks in the ground and soil remediation wouldn't scare away any serious retailer (national chain) with the resources to afford rent at a corner such as this.
This land is clearly retail. If Deni would work with real estate agents, that site would have had a department store or drug store or shopping plaza, etc. long long ago. Frank Deni refuses to agree to pay commissions and treats commercial real estate brokers like interlopers and parriahs. Benderson was able to attract Kohl's, Target, Home Depot, Tops, etc. to the same neighborhood. If Deni was a reasonable person, he'd be doing great.
As to Dickie's demise: I refused to ever patronize the Dickies again after I bought a stale muffin there a few months before they closed (it was wrapped in plastic, a dead giveaway it was yesterday's, but when I inquired as to why they were all wrapped I was assured they were made that morning. They weren't. They were unbelievably stale. It's a donut shop. How can donut shop sell stale stuff? Eventually, they couldn't. Good riddance.)
Deni bought the property knowing that there were tanks in the ground that will have to be removed. It's his responsibility. It was still a smart purchase. An alternative use for this site would be great.....but it's retail. It's highest ($$$) and best use is going to be a pharmacy, bank, fast food, ect. Walgreens pays up to $100,000 Net on a land lease for a corner like this. I'm surprised they are not already there.
So....if Deni can get a land lease at $80 Net + a year on a 20 + year lease. I don't think the $25k to remove the tanks are really an issue.
The issue as JOEY has explained is that Deni is nothing more then a really well connected slum lord in this part of the city.
I keep trying to apply for that experienced donut baker position @ dickies, but no matter how many resumes i send, I never get a response. whats up with that?
---
but as far as the property goes, see: http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/applications/propertyinformation/PropOwner.aspx?lid=2207
it looks like these folk have a lock on this strip. JFD Holdings - which Im going to guess is Jennie and Frank Deni. Seems to me the elmwood association should be after these people. and be soliciting for new development, so we can FINALLY bridge these neighborhoods.
Please no more retail...
Put a nice 3 story office building with some real jobs and maybe retail on the first floor....BUT WHAT BUFFALO AND KENMORE NEED ARE PLACES TO GO TO WORK EVERYDAY.
Hasn't Deni has to pay taxes on a property that he makes zero income on? It does not look like it is even being marketed.
Maybe I am missing something here?
whoa whoa - leave the porn shop alone . . .
:)
sadly, it is the most interesting structure in the area.
I would like to see the Elmwood village association expand their footprint past the Expressway, we all know the good that could come from the EVAs promotion.
Anyone else get the feeling that buffcitygirl is the kind of chick who stood on the deck of the sinking Titanic and said, "Nothing to worry about, we'll be able to swim to New York from here, I know it! We just have to wish hard enough!"
Either that or she is related to Officer Barbrady.
Developers looking to "porn-up" the area should contact the city on ways to best remove nearby schools and churches to clear a pathway for their vision. For years my Pussycat Megaplex proposal has been stymied by red-tape and civic indifference. A 'word up' from BRO would help break that logjam. Dickies Donuts failed simply because the owner couldn't capitalize on the potential 'synergies' with the adult entertainment crowd: heap extra glaze on each donut, create new "shaped" cruellers, and for god's sakes, fill that Bismarck with salty creme!
You gotta put the staidium up there for the Bills. Its a perfect one?
Yes the old gas station site is contaminated. Old underground gasoline holding tanks leaked all the time. In 2000 a law was passed that required any existing tanks to be dug up and replaced with double lined tanks. A developer/owner will go else where so they don't have the cost to clean it up. That's where the local gov't should step in offer to pay some of the cost to clean it up, otherwise it going to sit vacant for many many years.
People, there are underground issues with developing this land. Check into it...
Let's get a campaign going! I'll write a few letters! If the scumbags would stop putting money into that God forsaken porn shop, we'd all be a lot better off for it. When I sit at that light I have fantasies of staking out the joint...following the little perverts home and putting it all on a blog site dedicated to getting rid of this crap that does nothing but feed a need for those who just can't get life right. They should open up out on Aero Drive. I can't imagine pulling up at a busy intersection and going into a place that says loud and clear I'm a horny loser!
This corner is so long overdue for keeping pace with the rest of both cross streets. If I lived nearby, I'd do something about it all. I'm too busy with my own little piece of Buffalo forgotten.
Good luck and put the word out if you need a few letters.
I might be alone on this one, but I like to think of it as a park. An asphalt meadow for quiet contemplation.
lol You pervs! You're too funny! Leave you alone for a minute or two and OMG!
I'm absolutely amazed here. Is it our local public school system that puts out these creative types? Retarded, retarded, retarded. This location is great for a dog park! Lol! I need for some of you to travel and see the world...really. It's not all bad like this corner and the people out there...well, they work. G'nite!
"Hertel and Elmwood... they are two of the more dynamic streets in all of Buffalo. "
" dynamic streets in all of Buffalo"
LOVE THE OXYMORON - made my morning!
I don't have the details gentlemen. A developer friend of mine who runs one of our top three development firms told me he was interested in putting a Tom Hortons there, amoungst other things a few years ago. He told me of some type of "container" below ground. Also, the Niagara St lot owned by Ciminelli (few hundred yards south of Rich's) has the same situation... Again, I may be talking out of school here, but there's truth behind these allegations...
'People, there are underground issues with developing this land. Check into it.." IF fuel tanks and their spillage from the once Mobil station exist...and the possible contamination from once was GemCor mfg. at thgis site..shouldnt the current owner be forced to clean this up? I'm no environmental atty., but was there not a law (D.E.C. ) that required any closed or abandoned site where there was once a fuel storage site, tanks and clean up were to be removed from the site within 1 year? There was once a gas station on AMHERST ST, ACROSS FROM WEGMANS' THAT IS NOW THE HOME TO PEOPLE INC that had to be cleaned up before the site was developed at a cost of approx $ 200k and there is also a once operating gas station @ 479 Amherst st, across from Casey's bar that STILL has it's tanks intact,underground.
Someone needs to build a grand restaurant right there! Get some buzz going.
What is it that has ever gotten anything done in our whole history as a human race? The 'wishful thinking' and the willingness to roll up one's sleeves and get things done. How does anyone think we discovered fire! There was the wish and the effort....Fastforward...and the same essential ingredients are still the base of the mix. Regardless of what one thinks of the the economy, the government, the ...name your issue....it still takes the same basic ingredients from a community to get things growing/changing/
Give me a break, JohnMartin. Why pick on buffalocitygirl? Regardless of how you feel about the adult enterainment industry, she does have a few good points to make.
"This corner is so long overdue for keeping pace with the rest of both cross streets. If I lived nearby, I'd do something about it all. I'm too busy with my own little piece of Buffalo forgotten. Good luck and put the word out if you need a few letters".
At least buffalocitygirl is willing to roll up her (hey, do we ever really know who is a 'she' or 'he' and why would it matter, except for the sexists statements that come through sometimes....I think some people use a name that will push buttons ..hmmmm..) ...her sleeves, and attempt to get something happening. Not what I would call Just 'wishful thinking'...'hey let someone else save me.'..kind of thinking. Maybe a mix of community involvement, and wishful thinking....maybe something we should all be willing to mix together in our concerns for the city and our neighborhoods.
Buffalo needs another Tim Hortons, this site maybe OK. But it is too close to the Del/Hertle one. I propose using the old Freedies Doughnuts store location on Main.
The Black Rock/Riverside GNPA and I have been working together on a proposal for this corner. There is a Riverside resident, former Buff State student, who is an Urban Planner who I hired as an intern to work for GNPA part time. Through their work we put together a proposal for the Ontario Street Boatlaunch, Tonawanda and Niagara Streets and currently the corner in question. Once the proposal is done I will schedule a meeting with the people at Deni Machinery, GNPA and myself.
The GNPA and I realize the importance of this intersection. It is our goal to bring the Elmwood Strip and Hertel Avenue together. It may take a little longer but in Black Rock and Riverside we try to work from the bottom up. We identify a location, discuss its potential and then make a plan that we can hopefully sell to a developper/business owner.
I think that intersection would be a great place to hold flea markets and other outdoor markets/events in the summer. What better a way to use a parking lot that people already sell stuff at? Instead of targeting thugs who want "new" jordans, target Elmwood and Hertel residents sick of shopping at chain stores.
As much as I'd love to see the porn shop get the boot, I don't foresee that happening anytime soon. When stuck at that intersection I always find myself admiring the great features that building has to offer. Such a shame.
Good one al-alo....
This is exactly what we (the general people of N.BFLO) need to do to try and get something going on this site.
Just drove thru the intersection going to Pep Boys....God it boils my blood.
Document everything and submit a complaint until people get sick of hearing from you. It does work...
I see a lot of overseas container trucks unloading at the grey building behind the old DICKIES in the 1st pic. See a lot of trucks leaving for Wal Mart and Sears from the same location. Deni is doing pretty good I would think and doesn't need to worry about his vacant lot.
Unless the city does something.
I agree. I live off Hertel and I avoid this intersection like the plague.
I'll gladly take an extra five minutes and go the long way to Home Depot. :)
I believe that The Deni's own the little brick building next to this property. I looked it up on the City of Buffalo website. It appears to belong to JFD holdings.
Anyways, this is what I found on the epa website, page 178
http://www.epa.gov/Region2/foia/rcra/reports/ny/handler/rcra_hd_ny_s05_u05.pdf
LEGEND (of UNIVERSES) Universe: Term used to classify a Handler's dealings with Hazardous Waste subject to RCRA Subtitle-C regulations Generator: Handler that generates Hazardous Waste subject to RCRA Subtitle-C regulations Field Allowed Values Definition Gen: LQG Large Quantity Generator >1000 kg/month SQG Small Quantity Generator 100 <>1000 kg/month CQG Conditionally Exempt Small Quantity Generator <100 kg/month Blank Not a generator
NYR000029736 REID PETROLEUM CORP - DICKIES DONUTS INC MaxDate: 09/25/1996 Loc: 1866 ELMWOOD AVE, BUFFALO, NY 14207 CQG - ----- Contact:
This intersection is a good example of many things wrong with our city. The streets are a mess around here, and its not just pot holes, giant bumps and lulls in pavement, every summer as I sit burning hot waiting at the intersection I look for signs of construction. I think we've all sat there heading straight down elmwood waiting and watching as the left turn lights go off and nobody even turns left! Untimed lights are bearable but annoying.
Any news on the student housing project at the Great Arrow building down Elmwood? That would certainly help in reviving the area. Its only a matter of time before a Walgreens moves in here.
"Our GNPA meets at 6:15 on the fourth Wednesday of the month at the Northwest Buffalo Community Center on Lawn Avenue. Vistors and new members are always welcome. "
Good try Joe, unfortunately, the people on this site couldn't be bothered to do anything more than sign onto a website and tell you how to do things in your neighborhood. Except for buffcitygirl who has volunteered to stakeout the porn shops and follow home law abiding citizens to expose them.
Put a bar in one of the porn shops but they can only serve Labatts....
Call it the "Blue light" district, instead of the Red light district
Pretty sure it is a Benderson property. Wasn't there a gas station there years ago and then everything on that corner was demolished?
The worst part is waiting at the red lights and (sadly) watching people waiting for buses on these corners with absolutely no shelter. It is a disgrace.
Good idea MeliQ. Imagine more artists lofts even. A bunch of infill new-builds like the loft buildings behind Artspace. Something like these pictured here: http://allthingsbuffalo.wnymedia.net/blogs/2008/01/27/artspace-lofts/
OR MAYBE it's time for us as concerned residents to get GUERILLA about these types of non-action by slumlord land owners. Organize a protest on that corner. Or get someone like Ani DiFranco to play a guerilla style concert on a flatbed on that corner. Or set up a stand that hands out "tax write offs for wasted land" vouchers to compete with the sneaker guy. I'm sure he doesn't have a permit either. All during peak traffic hours to bring attention to the fact that its our gov't and these property owners that are hurting us all. Probably time to take some action into our own hands.
Give Mr. Moran a call, or seven. Maybe his clients will be swayed by hefty legal bills because their attorney's office is fielding angry calls from BR enthusiasts.
... and people are worried about a new aprtment building on Gates Circle?
AtwaterLouse, I agree that job creation is a must. It would be great to see 'real' jobs, like you said, be generated from the developement of this corner. I would like to see Real Jobs as well. not just low paying jobs that often go hand in hand with box, or franchise developement.
Frankly, whatever gets built there has to better than it is now. It would just be a nice touch for there to be some consideration about the type of structure. I'm not saying 'hold up develpement' due to the structural issue.
The company that was there was GEMCOR. It was a large old clue structure. in front of it was a gas station. GEMCOR had some rough economic times. The company left the building and moved to west seneca.
al-alo - if you used the "Keep the Porn shop" agenda during your campaign when you were running for office, you may have won! ;)
Maybe Newell can discuss this topic on WBFO in the next couple weeks (I missed this morning's so forgive me). Use some of the stats listed above about all these parcels are owned by the same guy. Talk about the boom of retail on the Delware/Hertel side with the new M&T, Dunkin, Timmys, Fleet Feet, Kohls... and contrast it to the Elmwood side of Hertel. See what happens if JFD holdings and Deni's name goes public on the air and someone can be a community focus for the blight.
Let the listening public out there that see this intersection ( that are not reading posts like this everyday and know what's going on) understand that development is happening in North Buffalo, but it is issues like this that keep some land in preverbal limbo. Newell could use it as an example to many areas in the city have have huge potential.
Land like this doesn't get anymore "shovel ready." The City likes to throw that term around as an excuse to NOT getting things done when there isn't any shovel ready land... well, here are how many acres of land that should be an Empire Zone. Offices should be lured there. Or how about that BUFF STATE is completely land locked and could certainly use this land for new class buildings or dorms (maybe like the Artspace Lofts). Shuttling/walking/bus taking students to this area of Elmwood would be a HUGE shot in the arm for density and spin off development. Just look to Canisius or UB. They are purchasing land just like this.
what property in Buffalo doesn't have some type of contamination. Seriously. Its an old indistrial city. Its part of the brownfield reclemation and not some surprising new thing.
if we were a whole functioning metro area, policy would make these types of old infrastructure the cheapest to build on to help make sure they (and thier surounding infrastructure) were resued. New green sites could also be developed but would be more expensive to deal with the long term effects of new infrastructure, etc.
PS Our GNPA meets at 6:15 on the fourth Wednesday of the month at the Northwest Buffalo Community Center on Lawn Avenue. Vistors and new members are always welcome.
Joe, the 4th Wed... So was that last Wed the 23 or is there one coming this Wed.? Damn months with extra weeks in them throw me off.
JohnMartin, I will see you at the next meeting then. I will introduce myself.
Who is the council member issue that seems not to care about this corner? Locurto or Golombek?
This corner is a disgrace (shovel ready potential) and the business owners near these sites should put some pressure on the city to make some progress on these sites.
Best thing would be if a real company ever wants to put new real jobs at that location - back office operations or something. Architectural issues would be of low importance compared to job creation. Tobe and Golombek should be trying to see if there's any way some of Spitzer's promised $1B upstate bailout fund could be used to clean up those gas tanks as redbaron suggests. It being private property might complicate that. Unfortunately other things Spitzer is doing make it less likely any company would be interested, but it's worth a try for Gunderson and NYS ESDC to make an effort.
"Wholesale sneaker sellers" is such a generous distinction. That little makeshift "shop" really classed up the intersection. It really contributed an almost windswept Blade Runner marketplace kind of feel to an otherwise post apocalyptic, suburban wasteland.
If that sneaker peddler was part of the counterfeit ring that got busted last September, one will have to go to another intersection to buy Nike knock-offs.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2007Sep12/0,4675,SmuggledSneakers,00.html
Agreed that this is one of the bleaker intersections in Buffalo. Who owns the property?
This will be a prime parcel if the Pierce Arrow residential conversion actually takes place.
It would be nice to see an architecturally 'nice' building or buildings go into this area. It would help break up the franchise building look that is just south and then to the north of that corner, and tie it in with the older historical part of the neighborhoods. Much better than another box. On my wish list. Wonder how to get something done.
Biniskiewicz - When you say 'clearly retail' that's presumably about the corner property, but any thoughts about realistic possibilites for adjacent properties? As Joey wrote above:
FRANK DENI and or JFD HOLDINGS comboned own 28 properties in the immediate area, HERTEL AVE, NORRIS ST. CHANDLER ST. according to city records. Many are industrial buildings, vacant lots and even some residential houses.
I wonder how possible it would be for NYS to ever bribe a Geico or Citibank type huge co into ever considering building a back office facility around there somewhere? Or maybe some light industrial uses? Or is all that probably doomed to sitting idle the next 20 years due to lack of demand?
Chainging the title of the Post...
"Pathetic with Potential" Let's hope we see the potential in our lifetimes?
According to the New York Secretary of State:
Selected Entity Name: JFD HOLDINGS, L.P. Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: JFD HOLDINGS, L.P. Initial DOS Filing Date: AUGUST 20, 1990 County: Jurisdiction: DELAWARE Entity Type: FOREIGN LIMITED PARTNERSHIP Current Entity Status: ACTIVE
Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity) HODGSON, RUSS, ANDREWS, WOODS & GOODYEAR 1800 ONE M&T PLAZA ATT: WILLIAM C. MORAN, ESQ. BUFFALO, NEW YORK, 14203 Registered Agent NONE
I hate Sally's comments!!! She is such a buzzkill.
Now that I have that off my chest. I agree, the intersection is pathetic. Perhaps instead of Bashir sinking his cash into pipe dream towers downtown, he'd and we'd be better off with a multi-story apt. building at the intersection. Make it attractive, with, not cheap or low-income, but competetive rents for 20 somethings and also older, empty nesters (no one considers them much). Some nice landscaping with some green space for people to walk dogs, play frisbee, etc would make this area of town a great spot to live, convienent to all sorts of retail and restaurants. I wish I had Bashar's money.
Hmm...maybe the critical mass of porn shops near this intersection is something to build on (so to speak) instead of scoff at. It could be....THE PORN DISTRICT....Can you imagine a supersized big-box sex shop? Or how about an erotic lifestyle center? Built it and those Ontario plates will come.
Anyway, in all seriousness, if a donut shop can't survive next to a police station, the perhaps this corner isn't as "dynamic" as you're making it out to be.
Just mentioned this the other day about this part of Buffalo. It is a Shame, has been sitting like this for years, i really dont understand why they dont build anything on the property. right down the street as well where Citizens Bank is located is a large amount of Space that could be devepoped as well but has sat empty, also the Don Pablos Restaurant in The Regal Plaza that no one has moved into! Why wont this Area ever Grow?
There was actually a cool looking old industrial building on this site, McGregor or something like that. Torn down for a shovel ready site about what, 10 years ago now. Perhaps if they left that building this area would have something going on at this site. But instead it sits empty under a single owner where the best outcome is another strip plaza that only reinforces car dependence. This is what our politicians feel is the proper development of our city.
Taxes on vacant land is minimal. It's the reason why he tore the building down. He can sit on the property for 20 years, he'll pay very few taxes. Deni can afford it.
Didn't the owner of this property (Deni) have something to do with the Buffalo Stallions soccer team? If I remember correctly the Stallions left Buffalo in a questionable manner. From what I understand, some Buffalo Stallions stuff is in one of the 20 or so buildings in the area owned by Deni.
Imagine the potential if Benderson hadn't illegally demolished the Kittinger Building. They were slapped with a $1,500 fine! The Kittinger building had the same potential as the Tri-Main building (formerly Trico) on Main Street, the redeveloped Larkin Building on Seneca Street, or ArtSpace on Main Street. Instead we have a cheap looking bank on the site.
I deliver and pick up at that building and I'm afraid to go in there, it seems to be contaminated or something. The employees walk around with masks and there is a strong musty / moldy sometimes vomit like smell in there and it seems to rain as much inside as it does outside. It doesn't seem like there has been any money put into the upkeep of this building for at least the 7 yrs I have been going there. I say it needs to be demolished.
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