Bill's Deli, there are people loitering in front of this place more often than not. Would the ban of single beers prevent some of the issues that plague Allentown? The pan handling, the public urination and defacation, etc.... I think the place of choice for urination is right next to the AA office during the summer is always smells like hot piss!

What position does the AA take on such issues? In the last two years the only thing I witnessed the AA do is water the hanging baskets and the planters on the corners and hang wreaths during the holiday season. Speaking of planters over the summer the one in front of Cathode, the rim was covered in a black oily substance to prevent people from siting on it, I assume to keep people from loitering.

I spend most of my time on the east end of Allen. I can tell you there is no shortage of pan handlers or hustlers. I am constantly saying NO to the pan handlers and chasing hustlers from in front of the building where I have an apt I rent.

So where does the AA stand on quality of life issues ? Would the neighborhood be better off with out Bill's Deli? There's always the Allentown Trading Co and there will be the new market on Elmwood and North.

Do we need an increased police presence? Yes. I read in a previous post that by request of your/ our common council member he/she can have the Buffalo Special Police patrol the streets. http://www.buffalorising.com/story/buffalo_special_police_on_patr . They did this previous in Black Rock and Riverside. So if you live, work, play in the Allentown area and are concerned about quality of life issues . I suggest you call Brian Davis at 851-4980 or e-mail him at brdavis@city-buffalo.com or send him snail mail at 1408 City Hall 65 Niagara Square Buffalo, NY requesting that you want the Buffalo Special Police to patrol the area.

Capital idea, Bison 716. Completely gut and rehab a house, sell it at a loss, then move to another part of town. Let this neighborhood go right down the crudpipe. On a more serious note, Chris, if I have to walk 10 minutes to buy a loosie, I will be very upset with you.

Snotnose,

Interesting that this was left up to the owner. I'm not surprised that they said no. In my example of the downtown bars losing their licenses, I believe that Mayor Masiello has asked the state liquor authority to revoke them. The liquor board doesn't take violence lightly. Perhaps Mayor Brown could take a similar initiative with these types of stores when they are presenting problems to neighborhoods.

We didn't just "chase them out", Perry. The Urban Roots cooperative bought the building, and became their landlord. As they say, "money talks..."

We had a lot of similar problems here in RaChaCha with "problem businesses" - often located on corners, and almost always preying on the low-income - and still do, but to a smaller degree. Several years ago we instituted a new city-wide business certificate/license system which involves the accumulation of points for nuisance problems like those described by Christopher. Get too many points, and action is taken, up to and including revocation of the business license at which point the business is effectively shut down. Sure, some determined nuisances have tried to continue operating, say under a relative's name, but eventually the system catches up. The additional level of enforcement and administration of the program is largely self-funded by an increase in the business license fee. This program gives our City, neighborhood associations, and citizens who care (like your Christopher) a mechanism for cracking down on businesses and owners like this who may simply not care about anything other than a threat of closure.

If Buffalo doesn't have a program similar to this (or does, but is not enforcing it or working with neighborhoods to implement it), check out the program in RaChaCha, and get your council members involved. One of the Buffalo Control Board members is a former Rochester City Council member who worked on setting up the program - a very decent fellow who I'm sure would be open to talking about getting something similar going in Buffalo.

So how many of the bars around the Chippewa area that have had problems with violence have had their liquor license taken away? I don't know the actual number, but the answer is ALL OF THEM. The basement and Sensations are just two examples (if I remember right). Why don't these places just get their licenses taken away. They can stay open but take away their ability to sell beer and cigs. See what happens.

Really funny...

sbrof...I agree about having a deli close by, if I had my way we would see a deli, butcher,bakery and green grocer on Allen. That is what city living is.

Walking to the store this morning is a great example of how nasty Bills is, huge amount of trash blowing around and the first looser of the day walking out with the "40ozer" in hand and it is ....8am Kelly, you need to stock up on tampons me thinks!

Some cities license everything and I mean everything (bars, restaurants, gas stations, newstands, Deli's etc.) thru a special use permit (SUP) process. The permit is granted with an an expiration date.(similar to an ABC licensce, but less frequently ). When it is Time to grant a renewal, the public has input to the process. Sometimes special requirements are add to the SUP like no selling of individual beers.

Walgreens is open 24/7.

Kelly might be breaking in and stealing them.

Interesting...guess I am not the only one sick of these dumps that pass themselves off as Deli's. I do like the ides of renewable permits, capital idea, that gives everyone a fair chance to make it...or not.

Kelly, Bills closes at 10pm, so I do not think you are buying tampons there at 1am.

Dionysus - the people hanging out in front of Bill's Deli are all races and sexes too! Like I said, up until 18 months ago, I spent 8 years walking in front of that place everyday...stepping over garbage, feces, fending off people wanting money, intimidation...then what would you call them? I prefer to call them scumbags, because all they do is take from society.

Just drive by Bill's Deli any time of the day...there's always 3 or 4 scumbags hanging out, panhandling, littering, peeing on the building...it single-handedly it totally sets the tone for that neighborhood. I lived on North Pearl for 8 years. While it was way easier for me to go into Bill's Deli, I would walk further down to the Allentown Trading Company and give them my business. LIttle bodegas, such as Bill's Deli, ruin neighborhoods. Urban Roots had the same problem in their neighborhood too. But those Roots people are so crazy (in a good way), they chased those bastards out...and I believe have plans for a coffee shop.

...yea thats the answere, sell up and move instead of trying to clean up an area...how stupid is that statement?

I live on Johnson Park and often work from home, so I see my share of customers of this store. What I see most are people drinking out of a paper bag as they walk through the park or sit on the steps. I doubt it's OJ or Snapple. See Martins first comment for a very accurate description of these places.

Having said that, the owners still have a right to be in business if there is a market for what they offer and it's not my place to determine what the customers purchase. BUT the WS Market is SUPPOSED to have a security guard on duty as a conditon of its license. Thank the city for not enforcing that even though it's written on the actual license.

And Bison716: People like Chris are the reason certain blocks and neighborhoods are improving in an otherwise dirt poor city. Stop by this spring and check out what he has accomplished.

This kid came all the way from Tonawanda to knock off this deli. Why? How did he know that it would be worth it? This pond scum place is known for the drug sales as mentioned by Frankenberry and a hell of a lot more. And it lies between two schools. It has a history of neglect and bad behavior and not trying to follow the law. The people who own in that neighborhood obey the law, why shouldn't the people who own this market? unless you know the whole story, wait before you tell people to sell their homes they care so much for and get the whole story. why should this guy sell after doing all that work. It's people like him who are making a difference and making the city better. Keeping this deli open only creates bad business and makes neighborhoods decline.

These stores such as this and even the one mentioned by sbof "Bills Deli" do nothing for the neighboorhoods they are located in, they do not cater to most of the area residents, but actually draw people from other area's for check cashing, beer, scratch tickets etc. These are the customers who drop their liter on my street, piss between cars and homes and constant pan-handeling. Bills Deli, as the one mentioned in this article does next to nothing to stop loitering, drug deals etc [ they even pee next to the garbage can outside Bills deli front door] I have met with Brian Davis about this Deli [Bill's] nothing more from him then idle threats from him to the owners, so good luck Christepher as I can assure you the city will do little or nothing. My heart goes out to you as there is nothing worse than as a tax paying, employed home owner being made to feel like a second class citizen.

In reading this thread I have not seen one mention of race BILLO. Guess you just assumed that one yourself. As far as Bill's goes, the problem we have is with losers of all backgrounds.

I dunno, it still seems that these places serve an important need to the community. Whether it is 8am or 10pm they are very convenient and offer stuff that a gas station doesn't.

If we are worried about loiterers we should be focuses on cops, get them walking the beat. If we are annoyed about the litter.. well how about a cop write a Fing littering ticket once and a while to someone. I see people throw shit out of their car windows almost on a daily basis.. you can't tell me cops don't see it happening also. if they were walking / biking the beat I bet they would see it happen much more often.

If that doesn't work fine the owners of the establishments to clean up a bit more. They clean up about every day or two but those places generate a lot of trash. Same as any fast food joint. Walk near any McDonalds. The trash along highways and roads near them is constantly littered with their waste. We are not calling for the utter destruction of every fast food joint in town. The end product is that Cops DO NOT give out littering tickets so people litter. Not the businesses fault.

We should even go so far to say they need to spruce up their storefronts a bit more. remove some of the boards, signs etc. But saying that they places generate the social problems of the people that use them is pointing the blame in the wrong direction.

Do people really poop on the sidewalk on Allen? If so I wanna hear some of the stories...

Sleep... There are corners of parking lots, and some alleys (both adjacent to property I own), that if you don't trim back the bushes periodically, people will use these areas as 'temporary' homes. Anything someone does in a home, they'll do here. Drink, have sex, and yes, go the bathroom. If you keep an area clear of shrubs, or anything else that would impede a cop from seeing it passing by in their car, you'll have less of a problem. With the removal of the rooming houses, the problems have shifted from daylight 'people who don't know any better', to night time, 'I'm drunk and I'm going to do whatever I need to do, where ever I want..."

Hey I like Bills Deli, talk about convenience. Where else can I go in 30 seconds to get 3 cans of tomatoes, some fresh onions and a box of pasta in the eleventh our of my goulash escapades. In fact I think these stores are critical to creating livable, walkable and sustainable neighborhoods. Not all of us can have the income to afford a car and a trip to the coop or even tops for milk.

"Just drive by Bill's Deli any time of the day...there's always 3 or 4 scumbags hanging out"

Thats some big presumptions in the 6 seconds you have driving by.

Isn't he just a man who sees a market and caters to it. Isn't that the American dream. Sure it would be nice to clean up his property a bit but realistically if they close this store the problematic people are just going to go to the next closest store. I can buy single cans of beer at my corner store on N Pearl & Allen and no ones been shot at there. (that I know of at least) The people who work there are good people trying to make money just like anyone else around.

Closing it solves nothing but pushed the problems around. Just like demolishing vacant homes. psuh around the problem enough and you don't have a problematic street or neighborhood but a whole problematic region and everyone is fearful when they will come to their block. Like the racial issues in the 1960's.

How about the city instead focusing on services, schools, education, job placement, skills training etc. The sorts of things that give people options besides crime to make a living. No one wants to be a crook, they usually don't feel that have any other options.

Christopher, buy the store, put in a gourmet food line and start a pool to see how fast you go broke. The store owner has property rights.

First of all if its any kind of market then that entire front of the store should be windows so customers and owners know what is happening on the street. Its not just about making it pretty or pedestrian friendly

Secondly just about every store has some kind of camera to watch for robberies and shoplifters so if you want to be in this business then put more cameras outside to survey the sidewalk and street

those two things alone would limit anything happening to a drive by and even then many wouldnt take the chance for risk of having their license plates on tape. sorry but its not the business...neighborhoods need grocery stores and such....but if these stores dont have crime deterents outside the store then its their liability too. In case store owners didnt know...your liable up to the property line and thats why property owners have to shovel the sidewalk...which means you are liable for your customers includes sidewalk occurrances....so get those friggin cameras outside and scare off these criminals before they even approach the store.

"...there's always 3 or 4 scumbags hanging out, panhandling, littering, peeing on the building..."

I walk past this store pretty much every day, and I've never seen 3 or 4 people peeing/littering/panhandling. I do often see 3 or 4 guys hanging out; usually they're black, and usually wearing hoodies. I don't automatically assume that they're "scumbags" though.

Isn't great I don't live in Buffalo anymore? Buffalo sux.

Just another example of why i hate poor people

I go by this place everyday and actually it is one the few places on allen that I don't get hit up for change. Usually people asking for money loiter around the bars at the west side of allen. The people at this store usually just nod and say good day.

I agree that cops on the beat are needed. The city ius hiring what? 160 more cops.. I would love to see many of them patrolling all the major commercial streets on foot. Tonawanda, Allen, Grant, Jefferson, Downtown, Hertel.

Nothing helps to increase ones sense of safety when you can always see a cop floating around. But then again that in one more step into the Bush / Brown 1982 Police State dreams. I do think a residence requirement is necessary as well as the whole education piece that is missing.

If we want to harass these establishments how about force them to make some cosmetic changes. Open a couple windows let some light in, clean up a bit more. Don't allow them to advertise so much. Who knows they will probably get even more business.

sounds like a job for Captain Chaos....where's Dom DeLuise when you need him?

buffalogal - may I ask, why the place is "off-limits." I can make assumptions but I choose not to.

"Anger or hatred is like a fisherman's hook. It is very important for us to ensure we are not caught by it." - His Holiness The Dalai Lama