Well I would put a couple of conditions on the sale.
1) the Main place mall needs a second tower at the other end 2) reopen eagle street 3) drop the lawsuit with Palladino against his tower 4) demand a % of spaces be available to the public
then I say....put those parking spaces back on the tax roles
Besides reading about the latest round of the Paladino/Hotoung catfight, I was unaware until reading this article that Carl had such influence in the Buffalo Parking Lot World. The possibility of Carl dictating parking lot locations and rates if the city gets out the business entirely is pretty frightening. Of course, some will say that that's the situation anyway with the city involved. The idea of the Niagara Square Underground Parking Garage as a solution to that area's parking is a much better solution than more surface or above ground lots. Carl and other landlords can look at it this way; with underground parking, there will be more new office space to replace the surface lots and that means more office tenants and more rent. Plus these neighboring blocks might actually have an unbroken building line of sight.
Paladino is fighting for a municipal ramp that allows him to transfer the true costs of his downtown investments to the city in the form of a public ramp that he doesn't have to replicate. He's looking at replacement cost as well as the dimminished ROI on his projects if he has to build parking. Main Place/Liberty simply wants this contiguous asset to revert to Main Place. The city should sell to Main Place with the covenant that public use continue through 2019. This gives Paladino time to build parking into his portfolio ( or donate enough to the next mayor to get the city to build for him ) and it adds value to MainPlace by ensuring occupancy and rehabilitation. But the city should demand at least $10,000 per space in this deal. The more fought over this ramp is, the more it's worth.
The last thing downtown needs is more parking. What is it with people and parking in this town? There isn't supposed to be a spot for every car, if there was we might as well give up and start calling ourselves the city of Amherst. In no other city to people piss and moan for parking like they do here. I have a brother who works in Chicago and from what he tells me you're lucky if you can find a spot in a garage within six blocks of your destination for less than $30. Give it up people. The only solution to this bullshit parking "problem" is improved public transport. Buses have to run frequently and on time. The Main street express needs to branch away from Main street. If Spitzer wants to throw a biliion dollars at upstate i think improving public transport is the best way to spend it. We need a solid, healthy urban infrastructure in order to entice businesses to establish here. (Along with lowering taxes and consolidating government of course!) I should hope that in a world of rising gas prices that cause all other prices to go up people would want to do something about it. Get out of your cars you gas whores.
My dampness doesn't reach that far back in history...was Main Place originally designed for a second tower? Anybody?
" the Main place mall needs a second tower at the other end"
I doubt a second tower would be feasible. I don't believe the Main Place tower is anywhere near full occupancy. There is no real incentive for him to build a second when he can't fill the first. I do agree that the mall needs to be removed. The building is such on ugly barrier on main street. It's basically a shoe store, a dollar store and a increasingly declining food court.
damp,
im sure it was. not only that, the second tower was going to be twice the size. with an amusement park, and football stadium, and the 50-foot magnifying glass, and that escalator to nowhere.
I say make the sale contingent upon Main Place dropping its suit blocking 50 Court Street. Time to break ground on that long overdue project!
I say make the sale contingent on Main Place dropping the suit on 50 Court and making a % of the spots available to the public until 2019.
I would also have Main Place agree to a fixed dollar amount for repairs from the city. Say $500k. Anything over that amount would be the responsibility of Main Place. In exchange for this, Main Place would get a tax break until 2019 equal to the amount of reasonable overages in repair. The city does not have the cash to spend on repairs TODAY but could take 90 cents on the dollar over 10 years in terms of taxes.
i believe the main place group owns the liberty building (which bookends the mall) as well so i can't imagine them building a second tower due to the fact that neither of those building are rented to capacity...
This is my idea. Keep in mind this is only an idea and I have bounced this off a few people to get their reaction for the Main Place Mall. I would take all of the tenants (5-6 total) move them to the outside store fronts on Main. Using both floors or only one, creating a supermarket here, Whole Foods or whatever (let your imagination go wild). What is good about this is the influx of people moving downtown, the parking available, close proxmity to the Metro Rail, among others. What is not so great is that the population of Downtown needs to gain even more strength to support a supermarket. This would take several years to accomplish, yes, but this would give life back to the building. If there are more people around the building, more people would be apt to shop at the stores already there.
Ideas, suggestions, comments...please.
brokeleg - Comparing Buffalo to Chicago is comparing apples to oranges. People in Chicago don't drive, b/c they don't want to and don't need to...there is an extensive system of mass transit. What's next comparing commuting in Buffalo to commuting in Manhattan...get real already This is a simple debate; Paladino wants to keep that parking garage public for his tenants in 50 court st to use instead of transferring it to his rival and adding more money to the 50 court project by building another ramp
BTW, enough with vacant office space at the liberty tower...I'd love to get into a condo there...Let the conversion begin!
Paladino again? How annoying. Let's just divide the city into two feudal plots and make Paladino and Croce opposing kings. Or...the city could sell the parking and use the money for something different and unique, like an aerospace museum or something.
I agree with everyone above, sell it and move it to the tax rolls. The government has no place trying to regulate the price of a parking spot in the city. This is something that should be done in the market..
The government subsidies on parking in downtown are probably the major reasons we have not been able to expand or even improve our transit system as this has basically undercut the market. Take into account that it is mostly suburbanites who use these spaces and I wonder why the city residents get foot eh bill when our transit could definitely use some of that money. How about we dissolve BCAR, sell all the land and put it into a started fund to extend the metro rail to North Campus.
Parking is NEVER EVER FREE... you pay for it one way or another. Usually through the price of services sold at the establishment. The problem is the government has been paying for so many years to make car transportation so cheap that people actually think it is supposed to be that way. How about the government only pay for 50%, or whatever percentage we pay for mass transit today, of highway and road maintenance and the rest of the balance can come from drivers licenses, car registrations, gas taxes... those things that only car drivers use. I bet a lot more people would rethink their mentality that everyone has the right to drive everywhere and park for free.
There are nowhere near enough people living downtown to support a full line supermarket and the ones that are there aren't in proximity to this location. I am not sure what the fascination with 50 Court St. project is. Have you looked at the renderings? It is a building completely devoid of character. Further, I wish it did but downtown doesn't need any more office space right now. I agree that Buffalo seems to have plenty of parking already. If more is needed for Paladino's office building then let him put it UNDERNEATH the building. The concept of underground parking can't be so novel in Buffalo. Afterall the Main Place Tower has parking under it. Finally, comparing Chicago and Buffalo is just silly. Downtown Chicago is home to Boeing, JPMorgan, United Airlines, The Board of Trade, The Merc, Sara Lee, and I could go on and on. Demand and prices are higher. Commuter rail, busses and the El can get you anywhere in the area. Conversely it takes hours to drive 20 miles because the traffic is so bad. In Buffalo it is easy to drive and cheap to park. Why would anyone do otherwise unless gas hits $10 a gallon? Even adding to Metrorail won't improve that because it is so easy to drive.
Buffalo definitely needs new office space added to downtown. Vacancy rates for Class A is ultra low, even for buffalo standards (5.76% vacancy). If you want to attract new business downtown, build new office space. Why should companies like Citi and Geico resort to building huge operations in Amherst. We've seen how long it takes to get anything built in the city, we shouldn't let the speed of construction get in the way of potential future development.
Geico was shown sites in the city and were offered the Waterfront Village parcel next to Shanghai Reds. They didn't even short list that site because the sort of employees they want are in Amherst and not Buffalo. Citi's operation is back office. Back office operations don't go in downtown centers because they go for the cheapest space. That is why they are back office. They aren't entertaining clients or doing any work that would require them to be in flashy expensive downtown space. The fact that they aren't downtown has nothing to do with the thought that there wasn't enough space for them. If I recall both firms built from scratch so they could have done the same downtown if that is where they wanted to be. The Main Place Tower is half empty and there are any number of class b buildings that are completely empty and could be upgraded to class a if some company wanted the space. 50 Court will only be taking law firms from other buildings with a net zero gain.
What the hell does the little grocer store on elmwood need 1000 parking spaces and why woulf they park all the way downtown thats crazy talk. And another thing if someones getting shot over there already whose going to go there to get stuff!
make the whole thing a shovel ready site, main place mall is a waste of city space
I love that term; shovel ready. Half of downtown is already shovel ready. The Larkin Headquarters was made shovel ready 40 years ago and it still is shovel ready today. I'll bet we all consider that a great economic development move.
Somehow Carl Paladino is the go to source for The Buffalo Snooze, Artvoice and the horrible locals "news" stations around here. But why? If he's been such a steadfast developer over the years - then what has he developed? His advice is to add more parking in a city that already has too much parking. We need foot traffic and downtown residence, not more parking!!!! Isn't that obvious by now. Paladino is an idiot.
Spitzer wants to make more shovel ready sites - based on his Update Address. Yippie!
lastcall- buffalo and chicago may be apples and oranges respectively, they are both fruits are they not? I say we dream big or we dont dream at all.
Thank you, lastcall. Even 'dead' cities such as Detroit have new office towers because of the dearth of class A office space in aging downtowns. Remember, many major corporations simply will not locate in anything less than class A. And not all of them choose the suburbs. Many suburbs either lack the critical infrastructure to complement a large new employer, or they simply don't have available or affordable land near what infrastructure there is. That doesn't mean Buffalo is going to see tower cranes across the skyline, it does mean that occassionally, something new gets built...hopefully much nicer than 50 Court.
And Texpat, your point about the probable tennant mix at 50 Court is spot on. Lawyers, government agencies, and other such hyenas and jackals will most likely fill the finished product. Musical chairs ensues, and at long last, the Liberty gets freed up for ultra-luxe condos. It's all part of the wonderful Buffalo Eco-cycle.
Downtown Detroit has a new commercial highrise? What is it and when was it built? Emporis lists nothing more recent than 1993 which sounds about right. The early 90's was a mini-building boom for rust belt cities that seemed to be making a come back. One was even planned for Buffalo. Remember the Citcom Center proposed for Main St.? Rising, I like your new found optomism but I just don't agree.
Apart from a handful of cities and projects downtowns are not attracting large new commercial enterprises. The expansion of (commercial) downtowns is being driven by the growth of firms that are already there; banks, law firms, accounting firms, etc.
Even in strong markets this holds true. Austin has no less than 6 400+ft buildings currently under construction including two nearly 700 footers. All are hotel and residential. Intel started work on a downtown design center in the mid 90's and got 8 floors up before abandoning the project. The concrete shell was finally demolished this year. CSC moved into a complex of 6 floor buildings in the 90's and has now vacated half that space. Silicon Labs has taken some of it but just for their top executives.
Boeing moved their headquarters to Chicago in 2003 with an incrediblle incentive package. How many employees was that? 500 out of 155,000. It was a great win but what is that; maybe 10 floors total?
Just pray that M&T doesn't get acquired because they have driven most of downtown's absorption in the last decade. I am sort of surprised that they haven't built their own new tower and have leased new space instead. They could also be a buyer in this market and I'd love to see them pick up a couple of nice regional banks. Unfortunately they are getting to a size that makes them a target also.
As for condos in the Liberty I like the idea. If the Statler and 200 Delaware goes well maybe it could happen. I think seeing half the Hyatt converted to condos first might be more likely. Long range it is residential that will bring downtown back to life. That'll be followed by the commercial enterprises that follow the people. As in most things Buffalo is just 5-10 yrs behind the curve.
Rising, I did find two Detroit buildings that are newer...the Compuware headquarters from 2003 and One Kennedy Square from 2006. Because they are around 200 ft they didn't make the tallest building list. They'd be tall for Buffalo though. The Compuware building is actually pretty cool and represented a local company moving downtown. It has an interesting atrium with retail and...wait...a 2,200 space parking garage!
OK I write and read at the same time...a little humble pie here...apparently Quicken Loans has announced last week that they are moving from the Detroit burbs to downtown. Still local and still services but good for them. It looks like all the other construction there is either casino hotel or residential.
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