It would be highly unusual for a building the size of the proposed Buffalo City Tower to be built without union workers especially for the skilled licensed trades.
It would be highly unusual for a building the size of the proposed Buffalo City Tower to be built without union workers especially for the skilled licensed trades.
Ask any of Buffalo's economic development agencies....unions and high NY business taxes are the main reasons why Buffalo is lagging behind the rest of the world. Local 210 are a bunch of worthless slackers who are keeping this area down.
Better yet, let's picket Local 210's office and tell the world how much they suck and are hurting this area.
I agree, it is usually union that would do a job of this scale, yet at the same time union wages can be crushing. if somebody wants 50- an hour to push a broom, then there had better be a PHD attached to his/her name!
Using the unions as a reason to not do something is sad. As a former union member I find the article offensive. Tell the workers in China who are paid 40 cents an hour that unions are a hinderance. Even those who perform "menial" tasks deserve a living wage and benefits to help them live a decent life. Unions are not what ruin industry rather it is greedy owners and shareholders that ruin industry.
Flyguy, it was the greedy owners and shareholders that ruined GM, Ford and Chrysler? In 1965 a share of GM stock was worth about 50 bucks. Today it's worth 24 bucks. And it never split. If you adjust it for inflation the stock has probably lost more than 95% of its value since that time. Looks like the greedy shareholders really made a killing.
And of course the demise of GM, Ford and Chrysler have absolutely nothing to do with their greedy, militant, in-your-face, adverserial unions.
The only folks who are pro-union are the unions.
He should just hire other workers and let those folks go. Even if it means he suffers some union-made vandalism and threats.
This state is growth-crushing...very sad article. Very sad the unions have no foresight. The sons and daughters of union workers will not have the opportunity to follow in their parents' footsteps. Very sad.
It's greed all the way around that ruins it for everyone else. The China example is an extreme. Let's instead look at the Japanese method of labor relations - fair without unions. You have to look at a company like Toyota which is about to become the largest auto manufacturer on the planet if not already.
Unionized labor in a struggling city like Buffalo is a BAD idea.
Unions can be both beneficial and harmful. Unions have the ability to protect fair wages, medical benefits, job security, and retirement options that many corporations would be more than willing to cut to decrease costs. However many unions (not all) have fallen from grace by leaching more than they care to give back. The problem here is lack of responsibility on both the big business side AND the union side. Big Business has a responsibility to pay fair wages and unions have a responsibilty to fight for fair wages. Instead we get businesses that want to pay as little as possible, and unions who fight for as much as possible.
Perry- you go picked 210's offices and let us know how that makes out for you. Bring a baseball bat.
Unions and politicians- a bad mix that have crippled this town for too long. $50/hour? For reals?
I am pro-union - to a point. $50 to push a broom is outrageous! I have a college degree and don't make anywhere close to that. It would be nice if someone from BRO could sit down with these guys and have a conversation. Killing deals like this hurts all of us.
Now, before I get cruicified, unions have there place. Business owners are necessarily greedy (some unnecessarily greedy) and unions are needed to protect the worker from abusive working conditions, unfair practices and make sure that the workers gets their FAIR share. Unions, unfortunately, fail to recognize the prevailing wage for the skills sets needed in the job and the benefit to the community as a whole. Issa doesn't strike me as a profiteer but he's not doing this for free either. The money he makes off these projects allows him to do more. These projects bring in other companies who need janitorial services, electrical services, plumbing, services, security, office workers, couriers, trash collectors and other union and non-union jobs alike. Local 210 will be shooting themselves, and every other union, in the foot if they make a project like this unaffordable. No new projects = no new jobs = no new members. I'd just ask Local 210 to be reasonable in their demands.
Too bad we are not located closer to the mexican border. Phoenix booms because of low cost workers from mexico. The american laborers there are low paid as well. Everyone deserves a good wage however I have dealt with union workers in Steel plants, GM and Ford plants and I can tell you that the unions AND the owners BOTH killed themselves. Both sides are greedy and will not bend. Unions were first designed to stop slave labor in america however the unions today are a joke. GM just have a layoff (at least thats what they tell us) but in reality its more like a paid vacation. They get 95% of there full pay when on layoff. This is because of the union. Not a bad deal for the worker. Keep that in mind when you buy your next car and wonder why the sticker price is so high. Too bad we can not bring in canadien workers to build the tower. why not bring in out of town contract workers that are hungry for work? Look at niagara falls NY if you want to see what happens to a city with unions and corrupt politicians. NF should be a paradise instead it is one step up from a garbage dump.
First, you must do a little better and research what unions have done for ALL workers. Second, leaving the union argument behind, have you researched BSC? They (he) do not complete half of the grand plans that they (he) come up with. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and his plans, but don't blame union workers when a project doesn't come to fruition.
This post is so poorly written it can't be taken for any serious news value. It reads like incoherent gossip in a highschooler's livejournal--all "he said/she said" crap without any proper attribution.
All I can deduce from this is that Mr. Issa may be reneging on some of his original promises, suprise suprise. Guess he's not quite the grand savior of Buffalo we all got swept up into thinking he was.
I thought this Elmwood hippie crowd would be pro-union? Stop everyone, you are ruining the 'BRO Crowd' stereotype!
Finally, using the $50 to push a broom is the extreme. Anyone can manipulate numbers to make their argument. Just maybe this "broom pusher" is a skilled electrician and 5% of their time is spent "pushing a broom." Be fair in your arguments against and don't just pull numbers out of the air.
Ruby, I'll be the first to admit that GM and Ford have sufferered because of unions. However, to blame the unions entirely for the declining market share of domestic manufacturers is flat out wrong. During the late seventies and early eighties, when Japanese brands like Datsun and Toyota were still small players, the domestics got lazy and put out bland, badge-engineered products with precious little innovation. The imports worked hard and caught up in quality, and the domestics didn't take the threat seriously until severe damage had been done.
Sadly that approach lingers. Look at Ford's Focus, which was world class when it was introduced but now receives only superficial sheetmetal updates every few years in order to shave R&D costs. Meanwhile Honda's Civic advances technologically and aesthetically. The domestics can compete when they choose to, however all too often they choose short term savings over long term profits.
That's not the fault of the unions.
I hope Bashar doesn't leave us, and sticks to his Buffalo Tower plan. I believe the proposed building itself is what was bringing most of the hype back to Buffalo for curious developers. If Mr. Bashar ends up terminating this project, then it will be a gigantic blow to our city and near future possibilities. This is sad news...
Now all of a suddend - everyone on here is an elmwood hippie? Are they really taking down that ugly Barnes Firm awning? I need to go by and take a look.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
"Unions" are going to keep the Buffalo City Tower from being built. Unions are going to have about as much to do with this pie-in-the-sky being built as they did the Adelphia Tower.
Which is to say, not at all.
I'm no union sympathizer by any means, but if any of you actually thought that thing was more than an "I'll believe it when I see it" project, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn and another on the west side of Buffalo to sell you. Methinks the canonization of Mr. Issa was a tad premature, no?
Its only a matter of time before the Pied Piper of Manchester goes riding out of town, leaving a half-renovated Statler in his wake...
Steel is right; buildings of this stature usually demand union workers. That may not be good but it is reality, and not just in Buffalo.
And Newell, I feel the same about possibly losing the tower, but your comments about unskilled union workers as "menial," and the whole tone of your post just make the issue more divisive. It would be more useful to have the facts of the negotiations: are the unskilled workers all being paid 50/hr? What are the rates and for which jobs? BRO needs someone with experience and knowledge about this issue to write about it. Because you're just writing from emotion, and that's not going to help people understand this. Get better writers!
This is a complex issue. It is unfortunate that the post is so ill-researched. Indeed, its whole purpose seems aimed at getting a bunch of irate comments, rather than informing anyone about anything.
Hyperbole gets us nowhere and only serves to ignite the argument. Call Local 210 and find out what their demands are, if they have even formulated them as of yet. It's always entertaining to watch bloggers (especially BRO writers) have their collective balloon of hope popped when reality makes a pit stop. If Bashar hadn't anticipated unionization, he's a developer who is clearly out of his league.
I'm suspicious since progress at the Statler has been S-L-O-W and the City Tower filling up was always a wet dream. Is he undercapitalized? Ttough questions from Newell instead of operating as a PR mouthpiece for his drinking buddy and walking silver bullet Bashar are in order here.
ok ok, lets take this down a bit. I am almost certain that there are very few union workers who push brooms that would command 50 an hour. who are we speaking of? my guess is the skilled trades. and what is not stated is what these people are making currently, nor what the actuall new hourly is.
from my limited understanding of the statlers operation, is that many workers doing unskilled/semiskilled labor is getting around 10 an hour. of course, whether union or not, this is not near the prevailing wage for this kind of work. so, eventually, it doesnt surprise me that a move to unionize could be successful.
had the salary been more in line, would these workers have made the same choice? well, i guess we will never know.
additionally, the tower would be a seperate project all together. what impact would this union move have on a new project? all the work would go out to bid, union or not.
and as was previously stated, there would be no way the tower project could have been completed without some percentage of union labor. whether it was a steelworker, a plaster, a plumber - and i couldnt imagine a place in the U.S. where that is not the case. perhaps Issa thought that the workers in a down on its luck city would be less likely to unionize.
sounds like he is preparing to back out of the project and needs a good excuse.
had the salaries been near
50 bucks an hour to push a broom? Come on. Smells like hyperbole to me. Unless he's getting fleeced by the 210 which has a bit of history with organized crime as I recall. Though I think that got resolved by the Justice Dept.
I bet it's more like 1/3 that amount. Factor in some health insurance, and you're still not even half that amount. If any workers need quality health insurance, it's laborers.
The money paid out for good paying jobs goes into the community, no? Or maybe the casino I reckon:).
Buffalo is so nuts. It's like living on that show The Wire.
Dear Unions, Thanks for incentivising all our big companies into sending our jobs to Asian countries and for letting Mexicans do the rest. Best regards, The Remainging American Workforce
Um, wouldn't Bashar's workers in the UK also be unionized? Is this coming as a surprise to him? If so, he's in way over his head. Let's just say that there's been a great deal of progress on the Federal Courthouse in the last few months, and very little comparable, palpable progress on or in the Statler. Nice new elevators, though.
Why aren't the northern states taking the hints from the southern and western states that have the Right to Work Law? Agree or disagree with it all you want, but these are the states that are taking the north's companies, and the worker's are following them there.
cdub, that's true. However, we don't want blue collar people in "New" Buffalo. We want cool people. Don't you read this site?
Is Zimmermann editing the posts around here again?
Now it reads: "Would you pay $30 to $40 or more to an employee who pushes a broom or dumps bricks into a dumpster?"
Nicely done
With all due respect to Bashar, how can you invest your money into construction projects of this scale, in this city, and not anticipate unionized labor costs? I'll assume he regularly receives advice from both friends and business associates in Buffalo - where the hell have they been all these years to let Bashar put himself in a position where unskilled laborers could "make or break" these projects.
Unionized labor is a major obstacle of construction projects and investment in our region - but unions are not the only ones to be held accountable. Surely our politicians should have been interested to a few details regarding these important projects for downtown - it appears they chose to celebrate and manufacture some political mileage rather than roll up their sleeves to ensure the projects could be a success. What about the commercial realtors involved in this?
You don't open an outdoor tiki bar in Alaska and then blame the weather...and you don't invest hundreds of millions to build a skyscraper in a rust belt city and then blame the requirements of unionized labor. How can you blame his workers? If someone offered you twice the money to do the same job, wouldn't you be interested?
I'm sure there is much more to this story or other issues causing problems. I hope it can be worked out and local business leaders and politicians should get involved. If Bashar gives up, nobody wins and we all lose - and other developers outside Buffalo who may be contemplating investment say "I figured as much".
hmmm, the post WAS changed, so I go with Eliz on this one, maybe more research should of been done before hastly throwing a blog up! This one could backfire on you BR!
Apparently there are a number of us "flyguy's" on buffalo rising. From my point of view should labor be paid a living wage, heck yes. Should the Union bosses step away or compromise and step away from their me me me attitude when they recognize that a large development in a cash strapped, economically depressed, and negatively percieved area nationwide could potentially be killed leading to more of the status quo, no change? HECK YES. Step away and choose your battles wisely. When you interfere to the point of killing a project altogether and the result is no positive change then you act as a barrier, a negative influence in the community and are selfish. Is 50 bucks an hour for a broom pusher absurd? Absoultely. Is 50 bucks and hour for a broom pusher exaggeration? Perhaps. I worked for many years as a laborer before attaining my masters degree and as an "unskilled" laborer earned less than 10 bucks an hour. Is 10 bucks an hour in this day in age reasonable? Its not easy to live on 10 bucks an hour especially when you consider development has promoted car based cultures. A broom pusher shouldnt be earning 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks an hour though. A broom pusher should be earning somewhere between 10 and 15 bucks an hour at most. If you have any pride in what you do you will be a damn good broom pusher earning a hard earned buck no matter what you are being paid. Besides the aspirations of a broom pusher should be higher than to just settle in as a broom pusher. If you have some drive you might want to earn more than 15 bucks an hour and want to prove yourself a damn hardworkiing broom pusher and have some upward mobility in your life to some higher and better job. It may be a tight lifestyle but 10 to 15 is reasonable and as such lets be reasonable with our union expectations in this town. Lets stop shooting for the moon and letting selfishness kill projects alltogether.
On the other side we must recognize that corporate America and big business have been the kings of greed the past few decades and have helped lead this Country to the state its in where everything is import based and foreign countries are buying us out. I for one am not cool with this prospect at all. The basic strength and foundation of our nation is sllipping away before our own eyes and the investors stay happy because the money keeps rolling in whether foriegn countries are buying our companies up or not. Our governments cant even afford to fix basic infrastructure. Wheres the money for the "richest" nation inthe world? Do we see a problem with this? We're cool giving it all away? This will undoubtedly have profoundly negative effects on our own soil and our own "workling class" that are increasingly pinched and hurt by the downside of globalization, the sociological and psychological impacts are there as well and have helped spur the expansion of urban ghettos and poverty in this country, the proliferation of people working one, two, three jobs just to stay afloat. Its sickening and no one seems to be trying to fix this very readily. Bring the jobs back and hopefully we can instill some pride back in people, most people, the masses.
What I see in this case is an all around benefit to the community with the development of this tower especially. Theres construction jobs, raw materials jobs, office space jobs that will be with us for many years to come if the thing is built, and a psychological shot in the arm for the area. Unions must not be so bold headed and be more reasonable and recognize the benefits to the commnuity as a whole and compromise.
Does BSC have to use unionized workers? Also, a couple of interviews with workers who voted pro union would have been interesting so as to learn what their motivations were for joining the union.
Such a Catch 22. I'm all for worker's rights and the ability of general labor to support a family. But what about when there are no jobs at all for those workers?
And the "$50 broom pusher" idea definitely sensationalizes the idea, making it difficult for uninformed people, like myself, to make good judgement on the situation.
I would expect that some jobs on construction sites need to be done by union workers. Plumbers, electricians ect. but the general wokrers who knock down walls and hammer crap together dont need to unionize. I cant imangine building the 40-story tower with zero union workers.
And as for the tower; if he cant afford the whole thing why not scale it down 10 or 15 floors. at 30 stories it would still be skyline altering
now is that $30-$40 a hour? or a day?
now an eight hour day, thirty bucks a day more, on top of what I understand to be the existing salary of $10 an hour makes the salary a wopping $13.75 an hour. greedy jerks! that would break any project!
now i could be wrong on these facts. If you plan on airing your labor problems, Id suggest putting the facts out there, and not leave it out to the public to guess.
THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO SAY IS...............I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
Too many people in this town and on this site assuming the tower would be built - IT WON'T and I said it all along. Too many people in this town are dreamers, " they like to count their chickens before they hatch."
As I have said so many times, do not set unrealistic expectaions for Buffalo (like so many people do) becuase when the project falls through (AS IT ALWAYS DOES) its just more DEMORALIZING news for Buffalo that rest of the country has to witness.
Where does your optimism get you now?
The real life problems still remain with no real life solution!
DID BASHAR REALLY THINK HE WAS GOING TO COME TO BUFFALO, MAKE A BUNCH OF MONEY, WALTZ IN AND WALTZ OUT, with out this happening.
COOOMMMMEEEE ON!
He is a 29 yr old, wet behind the ears, trust fund baby that doesn't know shit about real world development, especially here.
BSC Group's Bashar Issa is a great guy and has found a jewl of a city in Buffalo. We need to make sure that we as a city help him as well as other development companies when it comes to creating jobs and opportunities in WNY. Unions have to play a hand in building the massive tower that is planned and the tower does look incredible if you havn't seen it. But, unions need to be realistic in the fact that they will not be the exclusive workers on this project and that it will only be built with union and non-union workers building this thing side by side. Does Buffalo need this massive structure... kind of... We need something to attract more businesses to Buffalo but right now there won't be enough local businesses to fill the commercial sections of the building, at least not right away. I believe there will be a condo section and I'll probably be one of the 1st to take a strong look at purchasing one as I loved having a loft downtown.
BSC Group & Bashar need our support.
Amir McKelvey
Something is seriously wrong here, at 40 bucks an hour and assuming a 40 hour work week, thats 80,000 grand a year! For unskilled workers? Can this really be true, whats the average income in western New York. How can this be? What are the skilled workers making? lame.
Union verses non-union is an explosive issue but it is one that I can personally relate too being from a blue-collar background and being employed as non-union in a unionized atmosphere. I worked in heavy industry for almost twelve-years; seven-years at Tam Ceramics followed with almost five-years at SGL Carbon.
The skilled union are worth there money and normally take a great deal of pride in their work. I would routinely be pulled away by one of the guys so that they could show me their handiwork; especially the welders, carpenters and electricians.
The real problem was the unskilled, unionized labor which included a clerical union of over-paid secretaries. One would routinely arrive into work hung-over or still drunk from the night before and another would, matter-of-factly, tell you to “go fuck yourself” if you questioned her work performance. Admittedly, these two examples were allowed to conduct themselves in this manner because management refused to deal with them.
I, literally, live next door to a Delphi employee whose hourly rate is $27.50 an hour and he is, without a doubt, one of the most mentally challenged people I have ever encountered in my life. How or why such an individual was hired is beyond me but I do know that Delphi operates on a referral basis and if you are not fortunate enough to be related or acquainted to someone working there your chances of being hired are nil.
Management does hold a certain amount of blame as well but it really is a cop-out to blame the person in charge. I have noticed that, within the past decade, individuals are often place in charge because they hold a degree of higher education but not necessarily one that has anything remotely to do with the position or department they are managing.
However, that being said, I worked for a manager whose background was in Marine Biology who knew nothing about engineering. However, he was an excellent manager; unqualified but quite competent.
On the other hand; I have also worked for a professional engineer who was totally incompetent ~ scary.
Finally, I spent eight-month at Fort Drum working for an individual, with a Masters degree, who was both unqualified and incompetent. This man has been screwing the federal system for thirty-years.
So, where does this leave the rest of us? My advise is to keep on working because we certainly cannot change the system no matter how broken we may think it is ~ as for Fort Drum, the situation is so disgusting that I considered contacting the FBI but who would I be reporting this type of abuse too? ~ more overpaid unqualified federal employees….
I AM REALLY FU-KING EMBARASSED FOR THIS TOWN.
Look at all the talk and rendeings of "Buffalo City tower" - how many super imposed pictures were rendered with the tower in the new skyline. How much talk and time was wasted?
Pie in the sky - where is Hashma now? Letf town did you?
A 40 story grand tower of this magnitude will NEVER be built in Buffalo until there are people and jobs moving here - ECON 101 - supply and demand -
Right now there is NO demand for this even if there is a so called "anchor tenant" - and the city is so corrupt that the tower would never be built unitl somone's pockets were greased.
FURTHERMORE, I find it hard to believe there is any real work going on at the Statler. It is suppose to open this summer - YEA RIGHT? Someone please investigate if this is really happening for us...
PEOPLE, this is a text book flip - Bashar will secure this structure, clean it up, shop it and FLIP IT -
WRITE DOWN THE DAY AND TIME OF THIS POST - I GUARANTEE IT!
Newell, - this article is very real and I appreciate that, HOWEVER, it is true that you must do a little more due diligence and start coming up with some factual data.
Ok, first and foremost, I really believe that unions were an important part of labor, however with that said, I believe that their time has past. The city and county are financially unstable due to the demands of the union. Unfortunately for the city and county, due to state laws, they have no other options than to work with the local unions. For a private developer however, there should be no obligation to work with unionized labor. For the majority of us who are non-union labor, we are NOT entitled to guaranteed rasies every year, and we DON'T get to choose our health care providors, and we HAVE to pay for these benefits. We are NOT guaranteed a job. We are paid based on job performance. To operate a company efficiently, why would you have it any other way. Unions encourage people to only work as hard they have to, and allows no reward for going the extra mile.
So, with that said, the Issa project, along with countless others, should not be tied up with union pressure. If you are only making $10 an hour, you are lucky to be a citizen of this great country, where you have the opportunity to go get another job that pays better. You also have the benefit of gaining further education to allow you to advance to that better paying job. As for Issa, he has to option of not utilizing unionized labor. If his current workers have unionized, then maybe he should re-bid the work, and realize the cost savings. If he chooses to do this, there should be no union retaliation or picketing. Let business be....let him, and others like him succeed. Local government makes it tough enough to get things done as it is. Union members need to realize that while there is corporate greed, there also is union greed. It is coruption and greed by many that has gotten us to where we are, so I am all but certain that coruption and greed will not get us out of this.
I have three words for the "can't we all just get along", and "why can't he also hire non-union people" set:
Giant. Inflatable. Rat.
{Remainder of comment deleted because it is almost lunchtime and the comment moderator dropped a bit of cheese on the delete button}
Well if he can make it work without a government subsidy and non-union workers then its simple just give issa basshar a subsidy to compensate him for union expenses
We have to do one of two things 1) either brake the unions so that government and businesses so that development isnt held hostage 2) compensate developers for union costs
just for the record, las vegas is the fasting growing city in the united states, and it is also the most unionized city in america!
Here is a helpfull solution, why not take the money going to Bass pro and put it toward the Buffalo city tower project? We are giving all that money to Bass pro to create low paying retail jobs. Issa's tower plans to house much higher paying jobs and will create a new landmark in the city. This is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how STUPID our elected officials are.
I think the key in filling that tower was attracting out of town offices to avoid simply reshuffling the western new york office space deck in an effort to experience a total gain in the region. ESD, Erie County IDA and the BNE I would hope would be involved to help fill such space as well?
HOLY SH*T...NOW EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT I'VE BEEN WRITING ABOUT FOR MONTHS...GREAT JOB UNIONS!
The Prevailing Wage Rate for a Buffalo laborer in the building trades is $23.23 per hour plus another $14.90 for Benefits (Pension,Health.Training, etc.) add in Pay Roll taxes and Insurance Total cost to the owner is approx. $45.84 per hour. Heavy Highway laborer receives $24.76 per hour with same benefits.
I use to be in a Union for a hospital a few years back. All I know is I was getting paid way more than the average person doing similar work, but a lot of the people that I worked with were major major slackers, and being in a union made it nearly impossible to fire these people. Personally I think if an employer is treating their employees right, there needs not to be a Union. Unions were conceived so that we no longer had to work 80-100 hour work weeks in decrepit conditions. We're way past the industrial revolution, and I think Unions are outdated and promise way to much on behalf of their employer to people who already get more than what the average person gets from other employers
Wholelatta,
dont worry, ive been in a number of non union work envions, and lazy is just one of the disfuntions which i have been exposed to (and nothing was done about). there is also: cronic gossips, incompetents, just plain evil, liars, micromangagers, etc.
i guess to some up: people are crazy, not just union members.
al-alo, well my point is that in non-union settings, which I have also been in and am currently in, people get fired when they don't do their jobs. In a union, there is so much paper work, chances, union reps yadda yadda yadda. It makes it impossible to get people who don't deserve these well paying jobs out and people who would work hard in.
The tower was a pipe dream all along. Blame 210 if you want, the tower would never have been built regardless. There is no demand for a structure like that in this city. If there were demand, Issa would find away to get it down without union interference.
Question: Pay the workers $30 or $40 more per what? It doesn't say. An hour, a day, a week, a year? This story sounds like Ownership Propoganda against the Union to sway public opinion. As I scroll down thru the comments here, it appears to be working.
Wholelotta,
i agree with your premise that unions can make it very difficult to terminate a poorly performing employee. frankly, i would think it would be in a union's interest to assist management in the firing of workers who sometimes epitimize the sterotype of a union member.
but what the hell do i know.
New development in New York City is also being held up by unions, high taxes, community review boards, and state regulations too.
Oh - you say NYC is bulging with new development?! Then maybe these excuses don't hold water.
Steel is right; a project of this scale would require union work in any mid to big sized city. Any developer, even small ones, will develop a pro forma analysis that pin points all expected costs in order to determine if the investment will garner a return worthy of their risk. How Issa could go through such a process and not factor in realistic labor costs is curious to say the least. More than anything, I think this post shows that this project was destined to fail from the beginning, despite our hopes and good will to the gentleman from Manchester.
Guys, read the post before typing. Bashar's employees at the Statler are the one's that are going to be unionized, not the workforce that would build the tower, in fact those folks wouldn't even be working directly for Issa, but rather would be employed by local contractors union or non-union. Do you really think that he currently employees hundreds of iron workers, concrete finishers, masons, electricians and plumbers all just sitting around waiting for the tower to be started?
It's the guys that sweep the hallways that apparently want to unionize.
JohnMartin -
how come no response to last comment in thread over on geek's blog about your seeming schizophrenia?
I think there is some truth in the notion that Mr. Issa should have counted on these costs in his business plan...I didn't look at it that way at first glance...
who's the motherflipper, He's the motherflipper....who's the motherflipper, I'm the motherflipper
that's a Flight of the Chonchords reference gnomies...skin me later
xosder
The story reads (at least the latest version):
"and when asked about the Buffalo City Tower? Well, he doesn't think that he can pull it off if his workers are unionized."
Well sure Newell didn't mean "his" workers but rather the workers working for the subcontractors.
But the story is about both the Statler and the new tower. This union bashing stuff is as old as unions. Workers asking for more money are always blamed for a company's failure.
And the declining American auto industry - it was seat belt legislation that brought them down - just as predicted!
Is someone looking for a subsidy perhaps?
If I was to be developing a building, and learned that the city gave an outfit like BassPro a 90 million dollar incentive (which will take about 60 years for us taxpayers to pay off) to build an ugly ass store, whose outdoor, Epcot fishing lodge concept completely clashes with the aims of an historic waterfront district, well, I'd probably be sticking my hand out as well. Hopefully this isn't the case.
Someone tell him that you need to make about a six figure contribution to some select local politicos if you want some deals. Isn't that how it supposedly works around here.
Bashar bought the Statler and shortly after the parkig lots surrounding the building went for sale auction. Helet Croce grab one and someone else grab another w/o attempting to snatch them up for his tennants. BAD move dude! And, FYI PEOPLE - the Local 210 pays $23.96/hour to laborers. These people take home south of $800/week after breaking their asses all week. Then, the union pays FICA and Unemployment (employers portion of tax), massive workmans comp/other innsurances (even benefits) and tons of compliance costs. So, billing $42/hr is too much? A $8/hr mark-up on individuals in order to organize labor is too much? Consider this: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
And for all of you freaggin' followers who keep saying "$50/hr to push a broom" - is that what you think? Laborers push brooms? Bashars "Proect Manager" Dave Rycyna is the only broom pusher aboard. Get your facts straight and don't follow these idiots - they will ead you off the roof...
According to NYS Department. of Labor,
the median janitor salary is about $23, 980
the median construction laborer gets $41,120
http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workforceindustrydata/apps.asp?reg=nys&app=wages#wages
I'm old enough to remember when the vast majority of manufacturing jobs in the Buffalo area were unionized. For the most part, these jobs provided a middle class or near middle class existence for workers and their families. Their wages were a part of the economic cycle. Those wages bought houses, cars, refrigerators, washing machines, etc. There was even enough for a savings account or some help with a state University or College tuition if managed wisely. Other non union workers and executives benefited from this participation in the economic cycle because it helped to pay their salaries and raise the general standard of living, and their companies did well too. In other words, there was balance.
There is a common misperception that unions have killed most of the manufacturing jobs in Buffalo starting with Bethlehem Steel. They had a role but being 60% of Lackawanna's tax base, the prospect of immense costs to bring its facilities up to OSHA Code Standards and cheaper costs in a more modernized facility in Sparrows Point, Maryland had a lot more to do with it. So the start of Buffalo's economic demise? Probably, and for all the often overlooked vendors and suppliers for Bethlehem, it was devastating. What's most startling in my mind about Bethlehem Steel today is that it no longer exists and all the other steel companies that were in Buffalo also no longer exist. What bothers me the most about what's happened to Buffalo, to all the cities in the Rust Belt and to the manufacturing industry and labor in America is that they were sold a bill of tremendous falsehood. American politicians sold the American people on the idea that trade agreements will bring cheaper prices and many new jobs. When these same politicians were questioned about what jobs would replace manufacturing jobs headed out of the country, the answer was "high technology jobs", "technology jobs" or "computer jobs" and "Everyone will be retrained". As we all know, that never happened and I have serious doubts that, despite what some of the current Presidential candidates are saying, "It's not to late to reverse this course". It is too late. These trade agreements managed to do what the corporate types of the America that I knew growing up couldn't do. They broke the stability of the economic
Would thse doing the editing please insert the word "cycle" and a perios at the end of my post? Thank you.
The pro union libs can say whatever they want, but as gaustad pointed out its simple ECON101 - The union has no right to come in and force $50/hr broom sweepers on any company. If there are people willing to work for the market rate and skilled, then they should be hired. The best product for the best price is what anyone wants. The same people who back the unions are the same people secretly shopping at Walmart because they don't want to pay more for toilet paper. Its the same thing. Issa for sure does not want to pay more for workers that he can *legally* get for 1/2 as much and do the same job. Why should he have to? Because Buffalo is being choked by backward and out of date unions and politicians? No. America is a free market and based off of capitalism.
One thing to remember...
He doesn't HAVE to build in here....
SACK: Local 210 is not organizing his construction forces for the new tower. He has none to organize. They are attempting to organize his workforce at the Statler. When and if the new tower gets built, he can decide on his own whether or not there will be any union affiliated companies allowed to bid or participate on the project. The tower will be built on it's own merits and financial pro-forma and has nothing to do with the statler, except that as a whole his company will have less money for the tower if that workforce becomes unionized. They are two different issues which have been greatly confused on this thread.
cltpie28 writes
"I have a college degree...
Now, before I get cruicified, unions have there place."
Did they teach you grammar/spelling at that college?
Maybe he should have held off on the 45 foot yacht.
http://www.buffalorising.com/story/statler_on_the_sea
What did that thing cost anyway? 300 Grand? 400? More?
For Buffalo's sake, I do want to see him succeed. But I also want to see workers treated fairly. As well for Buffalo's sake.
We're not here to critique grammar, HelloKitty. In fact, I question if you even know what topic we're discussing. FYI - it's the Local 210 Laborers Union vs. BSC Group. Bashar has yet to prove anything to our downtown faithfuls. I want to see his action plan. Can BRO get a copy of his hard agenda including estimated expenditures and ROI? I am calling it right now - this kid is a fraud. MArk my words. This "biggest tower in Buffalo" idea is just his compensating for his height. F this kid! And people, don't be mad because you push a broom for less...
The state should be giving incentives to issa for Buffalo development. This is a man that comes into Buffalo, privately funds his own projects (unlike the large sums being given to Bass Pro), and actually makes progress. He has already made significant changes to the Statler on a timeline that is faster than any other development that I see going on in Buffalo. It seems completely unreal that the community of workers are driving him out through unions. His workers won't have to fight for higher wages for long because when he leaves so will their jobs. With this lack of courtesy to outside investors Buffalo will continue to be a city that "once was" instead of a city that "is".
umm, didnt Issa say he wanted to do all this w/o and tax credits or incentives? seems a little short sighted now, eh?
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