$100,000 plus severance packages for laid off union workers at American Axle. Enough Said!

There are people at HSBC and other banks that are exploited for years on end that get laid off with 2 weeks vacation.

Regardless, this blog is not discussion about Unions, it is a discussion about Issa and the fact that he credit and his credibilty have dried up.

http://www.unionfreeamerica.com/

I really don’t think its fair to bash Bashar on this situation. Buffalo (and the region as a whole) far too quickly embraces one project, plan, or person with an idea as the sole savior to restore Buffalo back to the good old days. By doing so, we are only setting ourselves up for a major blow if something doesn’t happen just as we imagined it. The best we can do is support Bashar’s ideas but not place such heavy expectations on him – and not pull the welcome mat out from his feet before he has decided to pull a project or leave town all together. On the other hand, it is always good to be positive. Some of these posts are down right negative. If someone from out of town were reading these comments, reading that nothing good ever happens here so get over it, etc, why then should they think highly of Buffalo? We should only blame ourselves for things not turning around here – not the unions or the weather. If you don’t like Buffalo – work to change it. We can’t all come to town with millions of dollars to build steel and glass monuments but we can start by changing our attitude. A region with an overall positive attitude towards itself is attractive. Attractiveness brings intrigue, visitors, jobs, vitality, …and perhaps more people like Bashar Issa who have vision and the money to make something happen.

To anyone thinking that the union workers don't add on that much strain on the cost of doing business:

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/index.php?page=Union+vs.+Nonunion%3A+Wages+(2004)

This is in 2004. Union construction workers make 52% higher wages than non union. That means all labor costs associated with construction workers increases by 52% with no added degree of value. Plus, non union workers must work hard and efficient in order to keep their jobs, something unheard of for union workers. The list could go on and on but i'll stop there.

And to JohnMarko & crew: you are absolutely right that managers are greedy and want to make as much as possible. But you know what you have to do if you do not like it, start your own business and take a smaller salary (aka Japanese model). The fact of the matter is unions create a non-free market. If this were a free market, Bashar (or any developer) would easily pick the best workers for the best price. Union builders require the use of union workers on multiple levels, and thus kill competition. Unions certainly had their place in America, but unless we can keep migrant workers and all those who can survive on less out of the country, they are dinosaurs to corporate America.

Union / Non-union, citizen or illegal immigrants, who really cares at this point, just finish the damn thing already!

Finally, using the $50 to push a broom is the extreme. Anyone can manipulate numbers to make their argument. Just maybe this "broom pusher" is a skilled electrician and 5% of their time is spent "pushing a broom." Be fair in your arguments against and don't just pull numbers out of the air.

1. Floors 9,10,11 are original hotel floors still existing....rooms have been combined and prep work has begun. 2. Issa has a 100,000 Sq/ft warehouse in Beijing. 3. Young and Wright Architects have been working with the group on the hotel, lobby, jazz club, restaurant space. 4. Paul LaMorticella, PLM Design, is designing the Jazz Club (if not familiar with his work check out the Chop House, Laughlin's, Oliver's, Siena, Duo) 5. You have not seen anything with your own eyes, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Slip of the finger. ThankX for the spell check.

I agree with leadi's suggestion for a follow up with more facts, and it'd also be good if that included elaboration about why issues between Bashar and his workers doing Statler remodeling should impact the proposed City Tower. The article was very vague about that too, and several have expressed scepticism about that being the real reason for backing away. Presumably he'd hire a contractor (union or non-union, whatever he wants) to build City Tower rather than trying to do any of that construction using his own direct employees.

Also would be interesting to hear whether or not he regrets doing Statler work using direct employees instead of hiring a firm. Paladino's smaller waterfront condo tower seems progressing nicely by non-union Concept Construction. Have to wonder if just hiring a firm would've been able to put the Statler much further along by now and with professional management might've avoided worker relation problems. Might have saved him money in the long run. Last year a couple threads on here included insider complaints about how that work was being managed.

BRO - can you please write another story and include facts from both sides?

Ok, first and foremost, I really believe that unions were an important part of labor, however with that said, I believe that their time has past. The city and county are financially unstable due to the demands of the union. Unfortunately for the city and county, due to state laws, they have no other options than to work with the local unions. For a private developer however, there should be no obligation to work with unionized labor. For the majority of us who are non-union labor, we are NOT entitled to guaranteed rasies every year, and we DON'T get to choose our health care providors, and we HAVE to pay for these benefits. We are NOT guaranteed a job. We are paid based on job performance. To operate a company efficiently, why would you have it any other way. Unions encourage people to only work as hard they have to, and allows no reward for going the extra mile.

So, with that said, the Issa project, along with countless others, should not be tied up with union pressure. If you are only making $10 an hour, you are lucky to be a citizen of this great country, where you have the opportunity to go get another job that pays better. You also have the benefit of gaining further education to allow you to advance to that better paying job. As for Issa, he has to option of not utilizing unionized labor. If his current workers have unionized, then maybe he should re-bid the work, and realize the cost savings. If he chooses to do this, there should be no union retaliation or picketing. Let business be....let him, and others like him succeed. Local government makes it tough enough to get things done as it is. Union members need to realize that while there is corporate greed, there also is union greed. It is coruption and greed by many that has gotten us to where we are, so I am all but certain that coruption and greed will not get us out of this.

Does BSC have to use unionized workers? Also, a couple of interviews with workers who voted pro union would have been interesting so as to learn what their motivations were for joining the union.

I would expect that some jobs on construction sites need to be done by union workers. Plumbers, electricians ect. but the general wokrers who knock down walls and hammer crap together dont need to unionize. I cant imangine building the 40-story tower with zero union workers.

Unionized Brothel

A dedicated union worker was attending a convention in Las Vegas and, as you would expect, decided to check out the local brothels. When he got to the first one, he asked the Madame, "Is this a union house?"

"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."

"Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"

"The house gets $80, and the girls get $20." Mightily offended at such unfair dealings, the man stomped off in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop.

His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madame responded, "Why yes sir, this is a union house."

The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" The Madame replied' " the girls get $80, and the house gets $20."

"That's more like it!" the union man said. He looked around the room and pointed to a stunning attractive blonde. "I'd like her for the night."

"I'm sure you would sir," said the Madame, then, gesturing to an obese seventy-five year old woman in the corner, with boobs at her knees, "but Ethel here has seniority."

This shouldn't be a shock in the midst of the credit crisis in the current real estate market right now. Who would give this guy hundreds of millions of dollars to build a place? He needs to fund this project with a consortium of buyers for the City Tower to get built. While I'm not a fan of unions, it is apparent that unions have not stopped buildings and growth in many cities in the U.S. Lets not take the easy way out and blame unions for the short sightedness of Bashar and difficult financial conditions now.

Unions can be both beneficial and harmful. Unions have the ability to protect fair wages, medical benefits, job security, and retirement options that many corporations would be more than willing to cut to decrease costs. However many unions (not all) have fallen from grace by leaching more than they care to give back. The problem here is lack of responsibility on both the big business side AND the union side. Big Business has a responsibility to pay fair wages and unions have a responsibilty to fight for fair wages. Instead we get businesses that want to pay as little as possible, and unions who fight for as much as possible.

Steel is right; buildings of this stature usually demand union workers. That may not be good but it is reality, and not just in Buffalo.

And Newell, I feel the same about possibly losing the tower, but your comments about unskilled union workers as "menial," and the whole tone of your post just make the issue more divisive. It would be more useful to have the facts of the negotiations: are the unskilled workers all being paid 50/hr? What are the rates and for which jobs? BRO needs someone with experience and knowledge about this issue to write about it. Because you're just writing from emotion, and that's not going to help people understand this. Get better writers!

Ask any of Buffalo's economic development agencies....unions and high NY business taxes are the main reasons why Buffalo is lagging behind the rest of the world. Local 210 are a bunch of worthless slackers who are keeping this area down.

Flyguy - do you really think a broom pusher deserves $50 an hour? Really?????

Flyguy, it was the greedy owners and shareholders that ruined GM, Ford and Chrysler? In 1965 a share of GM stock was worth about 50 bucks. Today it's worth 24 bucks. And it never split. If you adjust it for inflation the stock has probably lost more than 95% of its value since that time. Looks like the greedy shareholders really made a killing.

And of course the demise of GM, Ford and Chrysler have absolutely nothing to do with their greedy, militant, in-your-face, adverserial unions.

QE - If you interview Bashar again, rydog71's comment would be good to get his reaction to - both about remaining work on Statler and for City Tower unless that's officially dead.

Did Bashar hire his own laborers or did he bring in a contractor? He could save money by having open bidding on the project. He is not required to hire a union shop and if he did hire a non-union shop they are use to dealing with the local laborers. Even at prevailing wage it could come in less expensive and the work flow might even be better.

That's similar to what I was suggesting about 20 comments up.

Instead of the unions vs. CEOs debate, I read the article again and noticed this wording:

He's going to finish the Statler Hotel (at a price that would likely cost what he anticipated), and when asked about the Buffalo City Tower? Well, he doesn't think that he can pull it off if his workers are unionized

What workers is he claiming are the issue there? Is that saying his Statler workers now unionizing is really the reason he'd walk away from doing the City Tower even though the Statler will still cost "what he anticipated" as you wrote? Doesn't add up.

Well if he can make it work without a government subsidy and non-union workers then its simple just give issa basshar a subsidy to compensate him for union expenses

We have to do one of two things 1) either brake the unions so that government and businesses so that development isnt held hostage 2) compensate developers for union costs

Why aren't the northern states taking the hints from the southern and western states that have the Right to Work Law? Agree or disagree with it all you want, but these are the states that are taking the north's companies, and the worker's are following them there.

MikeJW-That's some remarkable insight you possess. Your stunning addition of "lol" confirms that you dwell in higher realms than most of us, omg, I'm lmao right now.

hmmm, the post WAS changed, so I go with Eliz on this one, maybe more research should of been done before hastly throwing a blog up! This one could backfire on you BR!

The tower was a pipe dream all along. Blame 210 if you want, the tower would never have been built regardless. There is no demand for a structure like that in this city. If there were demand, Issa would find away to get it down without union interference.

With all due respect to Bashar, how can you invest your money into construction projects of this scale, in this city, and not anticipate unionized labor costs? I'll assume he regularly receives advice from both friends and business associates in Buffalo - where the hell have they been all these years to let Bashar put himself in a position where unskilled laborers could "make or break" these projects.

Unionized labor is a major obstacle of construction projects and investment in our region - but unions are not the only ones to be held accountable. Surely our politicians should have been interested to a few details regarding these important projects for downtown - it appears they chose to celebrate and manufacture some political mileage rather than roll up their sleeves to ensure the projects could be a success. What about the commercial realtors involved in this?

You don't open an outdoor tiki bar in Alaska and then blame the weather...and you don't invest hundreds of millions to build a skyscraper in a rust belt city and then blame the requirements of unionized labor. How can you blame his workers? If someone offered you twice the money to do the same job, wouldn't you be interested?

I'm sure there is much more to this story or other issues causing problems. I hope it can be worked out and local business leaders and politicians should get involved. If Bashar gives up, nobody wins and we all lose - and other developers outside Buffalo who may be contemplating investment say "I figured as much".

Better yet, let's picket Local 210's office and tell the world how much they suck and are hurting this area.

Dear Unions, Thanks for incentivising all our big companies into sending our jobs to Asian countries and for letting Mexicans do the rest. Best regards, The Remainging American Workforce

Flyguy - A mistake that many people make is when they look at a country like China and say "wow they only make $0.40 per hour that is terrible". Well maybe it is, but what does a loaf of bread cost? How much does it cost to live? If they only make $0.40 per hour and bread costs $0.04 a loaf they it isn't so bad. That would be like making about $40k per year here. Please use all of the facts when making statements like this.

Just another note to Flyguy. After 6 years of college and having a great professional job in an awesome industry I have to tell you that I don't make $40/hour. $40/hour is WAY higher then some living wage that you are talking about. Actually it is over $80k per year. How many people do you know that make that much for even well paid jobs? Now why should some jackass union guy that has no skills make that same money? Answer is that he shouldn't. People make more money when the job they do can be done by few people. Anyone can push a broom - give me $80k and I'll push a mop too! I take offense to you taking offense to this article.

Perry- you go picked 210's offices and let us know how that makes out for you. Bring a baseball bat.

Unions and politicians- a bad mix that have crippled this town for too long. $50/hour? For reals?

It would be highly unusual for a building the size of the proposed Buffalo City Tower to be built without union workers especially for the skilled licensed trades.

What a jerk! this guy gives speeches like he is ralph waldo emerson and then nothing? I'm going to take a dump on his light up marble and i invite all to join in the festivity. Sorry

but hey at least i saved my rant about the American workforce. what does canada do?

"I have a degree, an MBA, a PHD and I don't make that much money" Are you kidding me? Do you think that just because you survived the "rigors" of higher education that you somehow deserve to be compensated better than some guy who busts his ass day in,day out, especially in this climate? Was the poor fellow who lost his life working on the Webb building being overcompensated? Please, if you have never done this type of work before, refrain from making comments about how much someone should be paid. I have a four year degree, spent several years in the banking industry, but for the last 18 years have been employed as a skilled union craftsman. I can tell you firsthand that sitting in a cozy cubicle or classroom does not make any of you experts on what "menial" labor is worth.