leadi - you hit the nail on the head!

what if the parent company defined their budget and pushed the start date back one semester and let Brad Wales' students "have at it" with the fixed budget and a set of practical parameters?

I've no idea who Brad Wales is, but in the spirit of "what if" - What if Mr. Wales opens his own store, hires his students as interns if he wishes, and leads by example within his own fixed budget and practical parameters instead of wanting to play with somebody else's money?

Damn the common good.

I think the Wilson Farms at Elmwood/Auburn contributes a LOT more the the "common good" than does the to-the-sidewalk, zero-parking-space We Never Close store at Elmwood/Bird. Perhaps Denizen thinks the opposite.

I predict that in another 30 years, when these suburban styled stores are in danger of being demolished in favor of some new sidewalk forward newbuilds, Tim Tielman will begin a campaign to preserve them and put pedestrian walkways on their the roofs. :)

I agree that these Wilson Farms stores are easy to target because of their lack of aesthetics. But they really do serve a purpose! I mean, how long have these stores survived while countless others on the Elmwood strip have come and gone? That serves as proof of their usefullness, at least to me. For example, they are the only stores that you will find open during the wee hours of the morning on any given weekend. And I have a, uh, friend who used to semi-regularly do the "walk of shame" on early Saturday and Sunday mornings after a great night out on the town. Anyway this, uh, friend of mine, used to find it really nice to be able to buy a cup of coffee on his way home from someone's apartment in the Elmwood Village back home to his own place in Allentown at those ungodly hours of the morning. I mean, I love stores like Everything Elmwood, Homeward Bound, and Room as much as the next guy. But who's going to offer a bit of respice to those of us who still stay out past 2:00 AM (now if only occasionaly) if not those places? Come on people, remember when you were young?!

the author lives in la la land. maybe we should make them come up with a spot coffee plan and ask the public for 5,000 investments and steal the money and don't pay taxes, but at least it would look like it belongs on elmwood

Asking Wilson Farms to tear down the building and start over is probably unrealistic. It may be more productive for the Elmwood Village association to ask WF if they can make some less costly improvements to the parking lot. Maybe they could improve landscaping or even build a low brick wall near the sidewalk similar to the one around Walgreens on Delaware. Maybe add more bike racks. The company may agree to do some of these to fit in with the neighborhood customers.

These are not set up for, nor were they ever meant to be "Shopping destinations".These are simply the modern equivalent of the little corner store where my grandmother would send my father for bread. She told me stories about how the men would go there and get a smoke and a match for a penny. The Mom & Pop corner store. Used to be a storefront, now a little lego thing. If aesthetics will improve the bottom line, it will probably happen. If not, well maybe they will at least get a new floor scrubber and do something about that awful smell that permeates just about every one of their stores.

leadi is right on. Also, this "kill the monster" sensibility is so popular on Buffalo Rising in a way that I don't really encounter too much in everyday non-internet conversations in Buffalo. I find that the most folks will take a more pragmatic stanse. I'm pleasently surprised by all of the comments that value the practical functions that Wilson Farms does well.

As much as they aren't pretty - ever since Latina's closed, I've noticed stopping there that the two of them, especially the one on the corner of Auburn really packs a lot of groceries into a small store. It's a convenience when i don't want to run to wegmans or tops, because they carry a lot of things that Lexington Co-Op doesnt --- or when I'm not in the mdoo to pay $6 for a loaf of bread (the CHEAPEST Lex Co-Op had on the shelf last time I stopped....)

They're not pretty but they're functional. An "Urban Re-design" to make it fit more in the neighborhood would be nice thoughy.

On a completely unrelated note, I think I'm in love with the Think Financial girl...

Jen - That's an attractive store in Savanah you linked to, but I don't see parking in pic. Maybe it's on other side? Looks like a higher end store than WF (wine, walk-in beer cooler, upscale prepared foods) which maybe helps pay for better building and interior. I wonder if location is wealthier area than Buffalo EV.

Seems to me the WF business model (about half way between We Never Close store at lower end and Parker's in Savanah at a higher end) is based on high volume of not-as-high scale products, depending on customer flow and decent sized parking lot. As I commented I think lot needs to be in front. Maybe some day if building is rebuilt parking could safely move to a side somehow, but I think same people would still complain if it stays same size.

It might not be practical to pay for appearance as nice as Parkers with profit margins generated by these WFs. Probably some more affordable cosmetic upgrades are feasible and new WF owners might make some. But I don't think appearance is what really bothers most critics. It's the parking.

I have been a long time reader but have never posted before, but this just takes the cake! Oh my god, it is a Wilson Farms! Everyone needs to step back and realize that! Why do you think businesses are moving off Elmwood? The insane restrictions from EVS and no parking! What's next? The Wilson Farms? Please....it is great for the neighborhood so why knock it?

UrbanWolff - That's an interesting web site about Youngstown. I'll take your word for it that their 50% decline since 1950 has had much worse impacts there than has Buffalo's same decline. Looks from current_vacant_land map that Youngstown has more concentrated emtying near edge of city in northeast corner. That could be advantage if it makes land banking more feasible.

Here's a couple similar maps from the Fix Buffalo blog. First link shows Buffalo east side vacancies Dec 2006 graphed on satellite pic. Yellow and white are publicly and privately owned vacant parcels, respectively. Second link has map showing percents across Buffalo of addresses for which mail is undeliverable, which captures vacant lots and vacant houses.

http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/03/hollowing-out-hood.html

http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2007/10/undeliverable.html

Wouldn’t it be nice to see them moved up to the street with the parking in the rear?

No. That would increase crime. Faster getaways for robberies, and much greater ease of parking lot muggings. Many customers would skip going to WF if parking was behind the store, especailly after dark which is a good portion of their business. Even the hipster-friendly coop was smart enough to not put parking behind the building.

And can you imagine an attractive design (both inside and out) that would make you feel good about spending your money there?

Inside a WF, it seems to me the design problems are simply the result of everything being so crowded together. But there's obviously a very good business reason for this: maximizing the number and variety of items for sale within merchanside space available.

As it is now, I feel like the stores are dedicated to playing the lottery rather than catering to a shopping experience.

I'm also bugged by lottery crowd delays, but I don't think that's an issue of store design. Problem there is time it takes employees to serve customers buying the tickets and asking questions.

gaustad - totally agree with your assessment of crime on elmwood. yes, the crime not as bad as some of the worst parts on the east side, but there is crime. A similar problem in the parkside neighborhood.

In regards to the parking lot in front of wilson farms and it's aesthetics - I really don't think any of that has come to mind. I guess it was just not a very important thing to me. The important thing to me is the practicality of the store itself and I think it severs that purpose.

In regards to the old elmwood sandwiches and bagles - maybe timmy ho's should move in there.

"Where is the business plan?" come on, that argument is old. Every single successful city has design guidelines of some sort and enforces them. We even have them here in Buffalo... they are called zoning laws. Unfortunately here in buffalo those zoning laws were written in the 1970's with the mentality that you need to be the suburbs to compete with the suburbs. All this has done is create pockets of suburban style development in the city. Meaning that people have a choice between a city suburb or a suburban suburb.... in this battle we loose every time.

Our zoning laws are outdated and don't serve the purpose of shaping development for the benefit of the city. Contrary to popular belief you as a property owner CANNOT do whatever the F you want... That has NEVER been the case in this or any other western country. You can't put up shrines to Hitler, you can't put a pig farm in the city, you can't build a 3 story wood residential structure, you can't raise livestock, you can't have open flames............................. the list goes on for pages and pages and pages. Thinking we own the land to do whatever we want only sets us up for disappointment. We are governed and ruled be laws and policies that shape development.

We say that building a cheaply constructed strip malls is ok, so it happens. If we said that you had to build the same building but in a different site configuration, it would happen. If we said you had to use brick for your facade and not vinyl, it would happen. Good design doesn't always mean extra cost. Good design can often cost less at worst cost a little more but actually improve profits over the long haul. Factories started putting in windows into their plants because it increased productivity of the workers, even though it increased the cost of the building the workers were happier and produced more goods. Offices are moving from cubicle, back to open floorplans because no one wants to live their life in a faceless box. Open floorplans create happier workers and more productive workers, even if it costs more.

Maybe if the WF had a better design they would do even better business, the worst case scenario here if their employees wouldn't be so permanently disgruntled like they are now.

if you're trying to scare me off to the burbs it ain't going to work.

Ellicot radial plan hasnt been mentioned in so long...

Moron of the year ^^^^ trying for 2008 too.

Have to agree with Chocolate Shake....it is very easy to knock the Company...but it does have low margins and stiff competition........I would just hope for spruced up stores, new lighting flooring, etc......hoping for a complete new build at street level......I wouldn't be holding my breath......but we can always hope.....it's the holiday season.......so whoop dee doo!

Youngstown's demographic projections are based upon Census data and further analysis by their regional planning council.

While the population declines have been at a similar rate, the physical disinvestment in Youngstown is far worse than Buffalo has experienced. Some maps of interest showing current vacant land can be found at http://cfweb.cc.ysu.edu/psi/bralich_map/youngstown_2010/13_current_vacant_land.pdf and Structure Index and Population Blight by Block at http://cfweb.cc.ysu.edu/psi/bralich_map/youngstown_2010/12_youngstown_population_blight.pdf .

ChocolateShake and BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME are correct.

If WF ever moved their parking lot to the back of the store as QE insists in the article, it would significantly reduce their customer flow and revenues, which in turn would soon result in smaller product inventory, higher prices, and worse service. Not to mention increased dangers to customers in the mugging lot, uhhh I mean parking lot, behind the store. Many people would just keep driving past WF and go to Wegmans - especially after dark.

Creating good urban design shouldn't be limited be the use of the building. It is the lack of proper zoning and guidelines in this town that has created a downtown where there is nothing to do but park your car. Streets that are so wide they can't be maintained. Buildings that instead of add to the beauty of our city detract from it.

People keep saying we should be more like this city or that city. Well design guidelines are a hugely important part of creating the types of cities people want to be in. People like to think the market rules all, but there are always some sort of government policy influencing everything. Streets, gas prices, taxes, insurance, everything is regulated. The point is a convenience store would still be in this location even if it had to spend 10% more designing something great.

new winner of Comment of the year:

Moron of the Year- The commenter awarded 'Comment of the Year' above. That IS the trend in gas station design elsewhere.

Why doesnt BRO open a store and mind their own business instead of poking into everyone elses

It's only a suggestion...

The Elmwood VIllage is supposed to have some pretty rigid building guidelines on look, urban feel, blah blah blah. At this point, it's only a comment on what may be a course of action. If EVA feels the same, who knows.

It would be great to see some of the outdated buildings on Elmwood be redesigned, let's all hope that it happens. It's not wrong to bring it up, but the chances are slim. I will agree, it's a store that I don't care what it looks like when I shop at it, but people strolling through our city may enjoy looking at a nicer building more.

Either way, it's a store to serve the public, it does it's job.

Nobody ever said it "can't" be built without a parking lot, but there's very real business consequences to We Never Close for that. They get mostly walk-up beer customers, a much smaller portion of customers for food items (most adults just drive past it and go to Wegmans or some other store that has parking). Thus in terms of prices and products, We Never Close can't provide anywhere near the benefits to EV residents that Wilson Farms provides. Wilson Farms obviously is no Tops or Wegmans but it's a big step up over We Never Close.

The idea that a convenience store can't be built up to the street is pure nonsense. We Never (card) close has been open for years and last I checked they don't have any off-street parking.

That business model works for them apparently at that's fine for beer and a sandwich, but does it serve the 'greater good' more than the Wilson Farms at Auburn? How many EV residents would swap Wilson Farms at Auburn for a clone of We Never Close at that spot in all its to-the-curb-zero-parking glory? 1 or 2 percent?

At least a bicycke rack? Maybe

If you haven’t noticed Property values in the Elmwood village have doubled in the past decade and surrounding areas are improving, Vs the rest of western NY has stagnant -declining property values. If you haven’t noticed there higher end shops and restraints are in this areas. If you haven’t noticed people from outside this area are taking notice of the Elmwood village and not for cookie cutter chain stores.

Well it isn't my job to redesign their store and I am not saying we should ask them to tear it down and start from scratch. I am just defending the fact that it is government policies that shape the way development looks not some invisible hand of the market.

The government offered subsidies to live in the suburbs after WW2 but none to renovate your older home, the result.. suburbanization.

To say exactly what needs to be done to their store to create a better design would mean having information about its customer base, information about its delivery system, information about workers, store requirements for items they sell, budget requirements, city requirements etc. It would be the job of the architecture firm to creatively balance all of these things to create a building that could serve the city, neighborhood, customers and company better than this store does now. I often feel nervous walking up to the store cause there are constantly people asking for change in their parking lot in front, so instead of getting accosted I go to the coop because if I am going to spend an extra dollar I might as well give it to that business.

I don't know the answer to what would make a better design for WF, I could probably come up with some options. You can design buildings and landscapes to improve visibility, to create more natural light (reducing their electricity costs), take advantage of passive solar designs (reduce their heating costs) etc etc. Exactly how that works on their site isn't my job.

I am not hired by them to do the work. Right now improvements to the parking lot and facade are probably the best bet. But that doesn't mean a better design for the future isn't possible and a better option for everyone.

There needs to be a 3-story parking ramp on Elmwood to settle the parking issue with this street. You could even put retail in the front.

^^^ exactly, people shop on elmwood because of the atmosphere and vitality that its building fabric and density provide NOT because of the access to parking in front of the stores. If that is their main reason for shopping at one place or another they will always choose the mall. Parking isn't a battle the city can win, what we can win is providing a higher density of stores, shops, and attractions in a beautiful outdoor setting filled with people and life. Not a place that is sterile and has age, clothing and behavior restrictions posted at the entrance.

I am not for boycotting them or forcing them to tear down but at some point this building is going to get old and need to get torn down. It wasn't constructed to last 50 or 100 years. When that does happen though they shouldn't be allowed to rebuild the same way they have. There are simple rules to creating vibrant urban neighborhoods. Buffalo has chosen to let the market rule and not enforce policies that would create these neighborhoods. What we end up with is dying commercial streets with suburban infill developments around the city. This is self defeating in the end.

The second two leading economies on the planet (Germany and Japan) both have high taxes and strict urban design guidelines. it isn't exactly hurting their economies but what it does do is create world class cities that people from all over the world fly to see and experience.

But then again they have pride in their cities and their home countries, supporting their own economies as much as possible while creating progressive policies that spur new industries to grow. We just continue to be a market whore and buy what is cheapest products, knowing that doing so is slowly ruining our economies. When you go to Germany you don't see made in china stickers on everything. It is practically illegal to import rice and other products from china into Japan. Both countries have higher life expectancies, better health care and education systems that make ours a joke (below the university level at least).

Government policies affect everything in our lives, if that means telling someone they have to build a nice building so the "whole city" benefits along with the business so be it.