"Air rights" was a great comment. We should focus on facts like this, not opinions like it looks ugly, or out of place. How do buildings get built in other cities? Find out.
Since Lippshitz is involved, he will fight as hard and as long as he has to to legally win. We must put together a coherent legal defense, showing that others have no legal right to prevent this type of development in their backyard, if it not a health hazard to them.
I am sick and damned tired about hearing about Frederick Law Olmsted. That man is dead and his pastoral vision for Gates Circle is outdated, dysfunctional, and inappropriate for today's day and age. It is time to move on and redesign and reinvent this city so it will successfully revitalize itself. Otherwise Buffalo will continue to deteriorate and decline and one day will see a headline in the newspaper titled"city population drops below 100,000". It is time to stand up and defeat those narrow-minded, crotchety opponents from that glorified 10 story slum tenement known as the Parklane Condominiums. This proposed new luxury high rise will greatly enhance the appearence of Gates Circle by giving it a positive, modernist architectural statement. It will definately not ruin or detract from Gates Circle in anyway, shape or form.
OBSERVATIONS:
I agree as well...it's not about age "Old v. Young'...it's about 'Old Buffalo' thinking and it's resident powerbrokers--with Mr. Lippes at the helm.
A traffic study? What an insult to our intellegence! Underground parking and a residential develoment will not adversely affect traffic flow.
Funny how the city supplied such a small room for the meeting--and the Parklane Association somehow 'got the word' to get there early and take all the seats. A glimpse of the crowded room was reminiscent of a scene from 'Night of the Living Dead.' I know someone who lives in the building. She's in her 40's and one of the youngest residents there.
Watch...they will pull out all the stops to stifle this thing--so I'm hopeful that the BRO petition and vocal supporters will continue to grow--and pack the next meeting in the proposed larger venue. If this doesn't happen--the folks at Uniland will punt just like they did with the Waterfront deal...and the Parklane Restaurant will sit there empty...until it has to be boarded up.
Where were these people when the Millard Gates addition went up? Now THAT is an architectural horror show--so you know what you can do with that Olmstead argument! But you know--I'm thinking they saw it as a way to block their view of the East Side!
Urban isn't how the building looks, but the site plan. If this had surface parking everywhere, etc, I could see the reason to fight.
Parking is underground, it is set back to keep green space around the circle like the others. There is nothing to complain about here.
This could be the catalyst of future development at Millard Filmore, or if not done, the continual slide of this circle into abondoned and decay once the hospital closes.
If somebody wanted to invest millions of dollars near my property in this wonderful urban manner, I'd be welcomong them with open arms.
Maybe a Walgreens can move here instead with a nice oversized asphalt lot, flod lights and some nice cinder block ...
The Bigger Picture.... Buffalo is the land of one thousand opinions...
1. I'll admit it.. as an active member of the younger generation who currently resides in Chicago let me say that its deeply saddening to see so much resistance to a well planned project in a city like Buffalo that needs it. as an individual am more excited to see the old guard/obstructionist group become weaker with every year that passes.... you're arguments are weak as are your intentions... curb cuts and green space. Not only has Uniland taken superb actions to derail your unneeded advances but they've also retained an internationally known landscaper to keep in touch with the Olmstead ideaolgy.
Parks are meant to be built around... the buildings going up here around Millenium park are absolutely amazing... thiink of Chicago or NYc... if people derailed developments in the name of preserving natural integrity/significance... we need a little mind opening... if buffalo is ever gonna get off the ground we need to change our mindset.
Historical/architec. tourism is weak in western new york.... no where near where it should be... and whats to say ppl won't come to see modern buildings as well as old ones...
Its resistance like this that drive the members of my generation away.... there are ppl with money in Buffalo... and there are opportunities abound.. nothing like those "hot cities"... we've all visited and heard about. Buffalo will never be a Seattle or Chicago or Boston.. but whats to say we couldn't be a kick ass small city with a standard of living uncomprable with other small cities in the U.S..... when developments like this are derailed its the one step foward 20 step back syndrome. NOt only does it hurt the developer, but it hurts the area residents, shoppers, commuters, and travelers that frequent our city and realize that there are a lot of missing pieces to the puzzle.
and finally...living in Chicago I've become actively involved in researching the real estate market.. as is in the rest of the country real estate transactions are down big time... Here in Illinois condo. sales are 45% lower than they were last year... these hot cities have overbuilt tremondously and have even started canceling projects. While I compare facts here to Buffalo I realize that the housing boom has skipped the area entirely, multiply that by the fact that conversions in Buffalo sell before they are built provides an interesting opportunity not only for profit but also for PROGRESS...... the ability to capitalize on our untapped market and reshape downtown is here... there are thousands of ppl nationwide who are not DEADBEATS that live in their parents basements that would move back if the quality of life and residence were available.
So please realize your position as yesterdays generation and make room for what many on BR call the young and unexperienced.... we more than most want a city that we're proud of..
Good luck Uniland!!!
This got to be built! It can be a whole new dawn for the city of Buffalo. I am not sure if everybody realizes how many investors/developers are monitoring the situation very closely.
I believe Mr.Lippes should have requested a copy of the plans as the opposing attorney. It could be construed as a stall tactic, otherwise. How else whould he have such plans? I'm no attorney, but if I were going into battle for my clients, I would have wanted to be well armed, unless I needed time.
Glenora I find it interesting that you assume that we who have spoken against your statements are all uninformed, undecuated persons on whats good for cities. You speak as if we all just speak from emotion and I assure you its not the case. I have two degrees, both in planning. I like to see growth and progress. This city is a mere shadow of what it was. Believe me when I say we can build a new tower. We should be building 20 new towers around town. If you believe in revitalizing this city you need to increase its population and get more people walking the streets and spending money (creating a market for commerce). Density is the way to go because it is way more sustainable and you get more people per acre. It amazes me that we try to stress sustainable growth and want and end to urban sprawl but people end up fighting density. Buildings arent being constructed as they were during the industrial revolution where people were packed tightly into poorly ventilated buildings without proper fire escapes. Density can be introduced into a neighborhood positively and especially in an urban area. If we dont build density in the city where would or should it be built? The suburbs? If the density should go to the burbs then the city is just hanging itself. There is something to be said for the psychological effect a large new project has in a town that has not seen growth in ages. This project will not save the city but it is a step in the right direction, it builds critical mass and pumps money into the area. We need to keep areas like Gates Circle strong and make certain that we infuse new residents with some spending money into those areas because as I said they support local business. You need not travel far W. Delevan before you are faced with seriously decaying neighborhoods to the east. Many cities experience growth issues because they grow so rapidly that the infrastructure cannot keep up with the population influx. Do you think one new tower is going to throw the universe out of whack in Buffalo? Honestly? Yeah a 4-5 hour commute is ridiculous and I cannot imagine why anyone in their right mind would want to do that in the other "hot" towns. However i think their growth and prosperity speaks volumes agsinst what we have here in Buffalo. The fact that people are wiling to go to those areas and deal with 4-5 hour commutes tells me something. It tells me that people are willing to sacrifice to live in an area that has growth potential and can make their life comfortable in other ways. Unfortunately I fear that Buffalo is in many ways a paycheck to paycheck city and people are at wits end waiting for this stagnant economy to come alive. If we cant get anything new in town because of some philosophical disdain for new development then I fear we all lose. And to be frank I think we all have lost in this town. Just think of how many people have taken off for better opportunities. my god its like my ancestors fleeing Europe back in the 1800's to find better opportunity in the US. It amazes me that projects like the Sidway are viewed so positively by you who speak against the park lan e tower. Its a good project because its not in your back yard? If the Sidway were developed in your neighborhood wouldnt you be in the same situation as you are with the Gates Tower?
Please let us know when the next meeting is. Let's be there earlier and more aggressive.
To inject some balance here : This building is neither wonderful nor terrible, neither beautiful nor ugly, and will neither make nor break the neighborhood. It does seem to be the 2007 version of the Park Lane condos - something new & larger than the surrounding buildings. While I am a "preservationist" (so called) , I see nothing offensive about the proposed building; it's much nicer than the hospital across the circle, and the old Park Lane is nothing to write home about.
The best thing to happen to New York's Central Park was the building of high-rise condos around it: those wealthy people have contributed MUCH money to the beautification of CP in the past 20 years. If new residents of this new building donate trees to Forest Lawn so their views are nicer, I will be one happy camper. The surrounding neighborhood will definitely benefit.
(and quit ragging on the Rite-Aid & gas station at Delavan; I shop at both all the time! Where are city people going to buy gas, if all the stations are closed?? )
Steel, my friend, I was being a little facetious by suggesting that there would be more traffic than the restaurant; even though the last year or so of the restaurant was pretty quiet. And Hal9000, sorry, but I'm not as smart as you so please show some patience. Anyway, my overall point is: even if the condo adds to traffic, what's wrong with more traffic in a town that's losing people? and, as has been pointed out in previous articles about this project, shouldn't the "anti's" who are concerned about the fabric of this city (or "the past") be more concerned with the corner down the street (Delaware & W. Delavan?) with its vacant lots/shops, pharmacies, and crappy gas stations?
The past is our future? Are you kidding me?
What has the past 50 years in Buffalo been? Declining population.....job loss....???
Thats what you're telling us our future is?
Great argument Lippeshits.
As a resident of the Gate's Circle apartments on the other side of the proposed site, I feel that the project will add new life to the area. I seriously doubt that it will bring much more traffic then the Park Lane restaurant did. I do recall many an evening before the restaurant closed where traffic and parking in that area were tight. How can less overall people, with their own parking increase the traffic footprint?
This project presents a new beginning to a circle that could be facing its demise shortly with the loss of the hospital. I hope that all of the residents of this city see that development along Delaware ave provides new hope for further progress elsewhere. It also shows that we are not afraid of progress, which is long overdue....
I signed the pro-condo petition to help bring our once vibrant city back.
hjarvis. This is not a "grave issue" Times change. Uniland has taken into considration the landscape of the area and designed an asthetically pleasing building with a minimal footprint. It hurts nothing and no one to mix modern architecture within a historic neighborhoood. How has the socioeconomic status of Buffalo changed in your lifetime? Has it been for better or for worse? You know the answer. The reason for it is the resistance to change by people like you and your nieghbors. You are short sighted and selfish. Buffalo will grow and change despite your efforts today and long after you are gone.
BROKEEPSBLOCKINGME: Really.....believe me when I say it is a very small minority that are going haywire over that dumb curb cut issue from the Lancaster Avenue Area. The "ringleader" of the 5 or 6 people really just needs something to argue about. It is NOT the majority.
Glencora - I too, am thoroughly flattered that you have lumped myself and my husband (11 years my senior) into the 25 and under category! YIPEE!!!
We have owned our home around the corner from this proprosed project for 10 years. We bought when NO ONE was buying in the City - our house sat vacant for 8 months before we bought it. Now it would not sit a day. We have watched the City reassess our home to well over double of what we paid for it 10 years ago, as most of this immediate area has. We are thrilled that this neighborhood has taken off the way it has, as well as many other areas of the City.
We truly hope that this project gets the green light so we can have 22 floors of new neighbors very soon.
It seems as if the younger generation and the older are at odds here. It makes perfect sense, i just wish it wasnt this way, us young people who will live in this city for decades to come see that progress is the future, not the past. The old and ignorant have a lot of power in this city and the younger generation has to fight for ours. This will not save our city obviously, but it is new development and its not a casino, so its good!
Welcome to the 21st century, better late than never!
i also am someone who lives w/in several blocks (what does that mean & who really cares?) and my fear is that lack of new development will further drive people away thus further damaging our city. as flyguy notes: city hall, the darwin martin house, etc., where once "modern/contemporary" buildings (as compared to their then surroundings) so are you saying that for this reason alone, we should oppose any modern design? as i have posted before, what is "unsuitable" for the Olmstead Cirlce area is the crappy corner at Delaware/Delevan. Or, how about the unbelievably run-down "cul-de-sac" of Linwood Terrace adjoining the circle? Or the general dilapitated condition of lower linwood? shouldn't something be done about these current problems/eyesores? i usually do not agree with uniland but, on this one, there are better fights to fight than opposing this new condo.
Glencora, you stated "4. There has been no environmental impact study done, which is a requirement for all major construction projects". It is NOT a requirement of a major construction project. IF the Lead Agency, after an initial short form environmental review process under SEQRA, determines that there is a negative impact to the environment (referred to as a Positive Declaration) THEN the applicant is required to do a Draft Environmental Impact Statement, followed by the Final EIS. IF the LEad Agency determines that there is no impact (a Negative Declaration) then they are not required to do an EIS. Many applicants/developers choose to do some of the studies typically required by an EIS upfront in order to provide as much environmental information as possible, to create an open forum for discussion, and honestly, in order to avoid timely and costly delays. I fully support an ESI on a project if it is dtermined to have a negative impact on an area...but if the studies presented tell me otherwise, then i support no EIS. Now, i am speaking not knowing whether or not the Lead Agency for this project (is it the City, is it the DEC?) has made a positive or a negative declaration pursuant to SEQRA.
I will now put Richard Lippes even with Jim Pitts as one of the most destructive citizens in recent Buffalo history.
Richard Lippes is a hairy crotch blue blood.
I fully agree with "outsidelookingin" - there are more investors/developers than you realize that are just waiting to pounce on this region. Too cheap for too long - good schools, good people, cheap labor.
As I always said, one good project will act as a catalst for the rest. It always has to start somwhere, sometime; that is why this particular project is significant.
I've seen it myself in other cities that are now boomin.
When development occurs, and it will at some point in the future, the preservationists and obstructionists will silently go away as they see ther property values double. Then we can all get on the same page. Money talks, it always does.
One of the points made by those opposed to the project was that the material and design of the building "is not in line" with the neighborhood context and interrupt opportunities for historical cultural tourism. If neighborhood context was the guiding principle at the turn of the century one of our City's most prominent cultural tourism gems, the Darwin Martin House would not have been built as it is (and was) out of context with neighborhood architecture. Secondly many of the residents of Park Lane Condos expressed concerns how the structure would interrupt their site lines, view, air flow etc...I imagine that when constructed the Park Lane Condos interfered with neighbors air flow site lines, etc.. It is a shame that more people interested in this project were unable to attend and speak in favor of due to the fact that it was held in the early morning of a work day. The only people able to attend were those who were paid to be there (attorneys, developers) or retired blue hairs with nothing better to do than gripe about the advance of progress. There hasn't been an architecturally significant residential structure built in this city in ages, here is an opportunity worthy of more investigation and discourse. One resident of Park Lane Condos invited the Planning Board over to the complex for "dinner,lunch or cocktails." I couldn't imagine this is legal but of worth noting.
Glencora --- Can you please provide me with citation for the documents you reference in your argument No. 5. I would be interested in reviewing such document and determining for myself how governing the authority is that you are relying on for this argument.
What is Olmstead's vision for the City? Based on your argument, he would oppose any development along any of his parks. However, in other cities with Olmstead parks, this is simply not the case. For example, what about Columbus Circle? Here is a circle that is next to one of his parks, Central Park. Has is stopped any development? No. Instead, because of its location next to the Park, development has flourished. I agree with you the actual circles and parks themselves should not be touched. However I have never seen nor read anything which stated Olmstead wanted to discourage development along his parks. Instead, even during Olmstead’s lifetime, he witnessed great development along 5th Avenue, Central Park South and West after his park was created. I actually believe he would be very proud of his accomplishment today and development that has sprung from it (expect maybe in Buffalo).
Glencora-- I am chair of the steering committee that heads the Lancaster/Melbourne Block Club. Under no circumstances has our Block Club issued a lawsuit regarding the curb cut. Please be sure that you have the facts before posting erroneous information. The fact is that some (five or six, I believe) residents of our street, independently, have filed such a suit. Additionally, several of the people involved in this lawsuit do support the project, just not the curb cut onto Lancaster.
Speaking for myself, not on behalf of the Block Club, I am very excited to see this addition to our neighborhood. I know of many others (none of whom are even close to 25) who share these sentiments. The irony of a group of people in a tall building on the circle debating another tall building on the circle is not lost on us. For years, we have dealt with our views being blocked by the Park Lane building, the increased traffic, etc. I chalk this up to living in a vibrant city, and that's why I live here.
Glencora,
Can you explain to me exactly how a modern building on this site will negatively effect either the Olmsted plan or our architectural tourism? I am one of those trianed experts you keep refering to. I have multiple architectural degrees and minored in architectural history in undergrad. My wife (an urban planner) and I are the archtiectural tourists everyone talks about attracting when referencing the Martin House Complex restoration, etc. We have never, I repeat never decided not to visit a city w/ great architecture because of modern construction. that is the most asinine thing I have ever heard and to me demonstrates that the opponents of this project are desperatly grasping at straws.
I wonder how many potential visitors skip chicago's Robbie House because of trump's new tower, or how many tourist dollars are lost in Boston because the Hancock Tower is across the street from HH Richardson's trinity Cathedral? My guess...none. get real, if people are going to come here for FLW and FLO, a new building on gates circle will have zero impact on that. If anything it will add to our architectural legacy. Not one, I repeat not one of the great buildings in Buffalo or anywhere else in the world was designed to look like the building next to it. Great design comes from innovation. If Buffalonians of past generations thought like you and the other obstructionists we would not have FLW, FLO, Richardson, Sullivan, Saarinan, etc in this city. Get a clue.
And speaking of Olmsted, his vision for his parkways are over 150 yrs old. the technology didn't even exist to build above 4 or 5 stories when he created Chapin Pkwy. Of course he didn't plan for high rises. And to that point, doesn't the 8 or 10 story Parklane circa 1930? have the same negative effect on the Olmsted plan? It was built decades after Olmsted and is of a design current w/ it's era, not the parkway's. How does that building fit any more or less than the proposed tower?
One more point, I litterally live in the shadow of this project. In fact when I walk out my door in the morning I am confronted by the top 3 floors of the Parklane rising above my nieghbors' houses across the street. In the distance I see the other residential highrises on Deleware. I am exited for this project because I expect it to RAISE my property value. More afluent nieghbors contributing to the tax base and spending money on Elmwood only helps my community thrive.
I plan on writing the Planning Board w/ my concerns and excitment for this project. I suggest everyone else who works during the day and can't make the meetings do the same. My wife and I are the young professional types that everyone talks about keeping here. We, unlike our friends, chose to stay in Buffalo after school and invest in the city we love. When no-brainer development like this is prevented by armchair architects and planners who have no idea what the are talking about, we wonder if we made the right choice. This project alone will not "save our city" but preventing private dollars yet again from developing our city will continue to kill it.
Dear Lippes, you are a dickhead and one reason why Buffalo has been declining throughout your entire lifetime. There is alot of white hair in that picture. Is there anyone who can get a picture of the view that the old buzzards claim will be "lost" from the perspective of the park lane? Maybe we can bulldoze the park lane and all those miserable snow capped obstructionists can ride their power wheel chairs into the new east side old folks home when it goes up.
Let drop the whole "Young VS Old" crap. It's ignorant. Not everyone at the Park Lane condos is old. And not everyone that supports the new tower is young. I know several retirees that like the new project, and I know at least one younger person that hates the new project.
We need to focus on getting our ideas heard and not sound like highschool freshmen. Attack the idea, not the person.
I think Glencora's confusion comes from spending too much time with her cousins Glenlivit, Glenfiddich, and Glenkinchie.
Actually a restaurant will have more traffic than a residence. The study will show that traffic is reduced by removal of the restaurant in favor of this condo. A restaurant like this one that was here can hold several hundred guests plus employees plus deliveries and garbage removal. That several hundred people changes over sevral times throughout an day and evening. That means the restaurant can generate 1000's of trips in and out daily.
The condo tower will have a small staff of maybe 3 or 4 people versus maybe 75 for the restaurant. The 68 units (probably fewer once people combine some into larger units) will probably average less than 2 per unit. Lets say there are 2 people per unit. That is only 136 people total for the whole day. They may not even drive their car for several days. The restaurant probably turns over 120 people every hour! Name me one person who thinks it would be quieter living next to a restaurant instead of a residence.
The anti crowd seem to have a very week front at this meeting. An architect from Rhode Island with an anti statement, I will supply an Illinois pro statement if anyone wants to bring it in. Side yards will be only 35 feet...haha...As opposed to the typical city side yard that is only 5 feet wide! Not enough time to prepare...what have they been doing for 6 months
Christa
My numbers are based on (A) restaurant. Studies are based on the potential of a site based on its use. They are not based on how much traffic a poorly run unpopular restaurant generates. If my memory serves me correctly the Park Lane Restaurant seated 130 for dinner and another 250 for banquets. Potential traffic generated by a restaurant at this site is way way more than residential.
And the restaurant currently has 2 curb cuts on the circle and a driveway and a giant parking lot behind it. It was built in the 70's in a fake English Tudor style. It has Tudor detailing made of plastic. Anyone who thinks that is not damaging to the Circle is dilusional
Glencora - I am 33 and have lived in Boston and Seattle - I'll tell you what - BUFFALO IS A LIGHT YEAR AWAY FROM BEING SIMILAR TO EITHER CITY. WE ARE A PIMPLE COMPARED TO SEATTLE AND BOSTON - when a city grows to be that large, then it makes sese to have quirky rules to preserve what is nice .
On the contrary, WHEN A CITY SUCH AS BUFFALO HASN'T PROGRESSED IN 50 YRS AND NOW HAS A CHANCE AT ONE GOOD DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, COMMON SENSE TELLS YOU - DON'T STAND IN ITS WAY!
THINK BEFROE YOU SPEAK. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT - BUFFALONIANS ARE BEING FORCED TO LEAVE HOME BECAUSE NOTHING POSITIVE EVER HAPPENS HERE! DO YOU WANT ME TO WRITE IT ON YOUR FOREHEAD.
Warning: sarcasm ahead. Humor-impaired, take note.
Thanks to flyguy and others, I am now fully convinced that we can cancel Buffalo Old Home Week because once this tower goes up, we'll quickly get back those lost 500,000 (or whatever figure was cited) Buffalonians. The hard-working Marti Gorman & crew can take a well-deserved vacation. Uniland will save Buffalo for us. Who knew it would be so easy?
Okay - how about this?
1. Yes, Mr. Lippes did request a copy of the plans. Yes, there is a law which states he must receive them. By scheduling the meeting within the 20 days allowed for the city to respond to the request, Mr. Lippes was therefore unable to have the plans examined by experts in urban planning, which may have provided him with much needed information.
2. The article above incorrectly states that a traffic impact study has not been done. It has been done, and concludes that with 123 parking spaces available for the 68 units, only 31 cars would be added to the morning rush hour, and 28 to the evening. Not one person in that room that I could see bought those numbers. They're ridiculous. The Gates Circle area is already considered a Level 4 area (with level 5 being the most congested). The curb cut is apparently intended to try and relieve some of the exiting from the Delaware Ave. egress. That means directing the traffic from a main artery onto a residential street, and destroying a local green space to do so.
3. One of the people who spoke at the meeting represented himself as a board member of the Lancaster St. Block Club, and (I believe) stated that they were suing the city. If I misunderstood his statements, I apologize. He also stated that he was not opposed to the building at 33 Gates, just the curb cut. If I misrepresented this opinion, again, my apologies.
4. There has been no environmental impact study done, which is a requirement for all major construction projects.
5. There has been absolutely no information disseminated regarding the ability of the power grid, sewer, and water systems to accommodate the proposed tower. The area is already subject to brownouts at peak usage times, and there is currently no way of knowing if the grid could handle the increased demand. The same is true for the water and sewage systems - both could be overwhelmed by the size of the new tower.
6. The current problems in Seattle include traffic jams that can last as long as 4 - 5 hours, overwhelmed city services such as fire departments, police and hospitals, problems caused by shoddy construction and many other problems caused by poor urban planning.
7. If you want to live in a Boston or Seattle, please go ahead and do so. Buffalo is not now, and hopefully will never be, anything like those cities. And I can assure you there are plenty of people in both places who wish that those "quirky little rules" had been in place to save their neighborhoods, which is what they are designed to do. During the course of the meeting, it was explained that buildings of this type, "splinter buildings," have actually been outlawed in NYC since 1983. I would have to do more research to be sure, but it was explained to me that they are called "splinter" buildings because that is what they do - they splinter neighborhoods.
7. As far as Buffalo hasn't progressed in 50 years - maybe you haven't been paying attention but - The City Center, The Lofts on Elk Street, The Sidway, the Granite Works, the Statler, The Mansion, Chippewa St, the new condos on the waterfront, and how many other buildings that are currently being rehabbed or constructed? This NOT the only project in this city, and not the most important project, by a long shot. But it could be one of the most destructive.
8. One of the residents of the Park Lane did request that members of the Board come to the Park Lane so that they could see the building site more in context, rather than just as a two-dimensional drawing. One of the board members jokingly asked if they should come for lunch or for dinner, to which the resident replied, also jokingly, come for lunch, dinner, or cocktails. Then everyone laughed.
9. And finally, a question - with all the new developments that are going on in downtown and on the waterfront, what has all of you so convinced that this one project will somehow save the city? I don't happen to have a degree in urban planning, but I know people who do. And they, to a person, are convinced this building could make the Gates Circle area unlivable. It's been stated to me that housing in the (literal) shadow of this building could lose as much of 30% of its current value. How is this a benefit to the neighborhood?
Davvid: I'm not sure if uneducated is worse than uninformed OR if uninformed is worse than uneducated. I think that if you are going to take the time to post a comment, you should be BOTH informed and educated. Instead, you attack HAL9000 for actually BEING both educated and informed. BTW, how mature to address someone as "Hey Prick!"
Class Act.
Instead of being petty, let's talk about the bigger picture.
Its easy to get confused at poorly run City meetings. The meeting actually started a few minutes later than the time noted in the newspaper.
I filed the curb cut lawsuit. I have seven co-plaintiffs on Lancaster Avenue. With more than my one hour effort to find co-plaintiffs I'm sure I could have gathered more co-plaintiffs. The Block Club did not take a formal position on the issue and does not meet often enough to do so. Meeting schedules and frequency may change in the future but it is irrelevent for this discussion.
The curb cut lawsuit was not intended to, and could never derail the building project - which, except for the curbcut, I support. Uniland and the Planning Board seemed a bit confused as to whether the curb cut was to be reviewed by the Planning Board. Uniland says it should not be although the Charter calls for it to be in the plans that have been submitted for review.
The lawsuit is as much about process, which the City chooses to ignore, than simply a driveway to Lancaster Avenue. For some reason the City would rather spend money in court than simply have appropriate reviews by City boards. I'm baffled but I don't think there is any conspiracy going on - just the usual confusion of staff under three different commissioners.
Of course the curb cut and driveway design make no sense. And the traffic study I viewed at the Planning office has assumptions that are as absurd as exploding Commercial Slip rocks.
Hey Prick! The design is what is being discussed and I think that the designers respondsible for it should be named in a "report" like this one. I'm not asking for a whole recap.
Note to davvid: In fact BRO did name the architects (Buffalo's HHL & Toronto's Diamond & Schmitt) in their IN DEPTH article, with renderings, originally posted on 11 May - AND, this article that you're responding to included a link directly to that original article. Hate to sound like a Pr*ck, but I get tired of reading the same crap by the same ill-informed people; you've got a computer, obviously, so make use of it and do your research before ranting.
And Note to STEEL: Excellent observations - I was going to include similar comments about restaurant-traffic vs. the traffic associated with 68 condos, but you covered everything, and said it better, than I could have. Great job. Isn't it all painfully obvious?
Glencora - I think it is time for you to get your foot surgincally removed from your mouth. There does not seem to be one person on this site that agrees with anything you have to say.
Danies Sack - why bother?
Mister chips - its a must needed step in the right direction - showing people abandoned buildings and Sabres emblems aint gonna cut it - show them some progress and maybe they might see some upside.
MOST PEOPLE HERE ARE BROKE - DRIVE BEATERS AND LIVE IN THERE PARENTS BASEMENT.
Those that have left are following a monetary and career goal that can not be fullfilled here.
As usual the opponents to this wonderful luxury high rise project had room 910 of City Hall packed with their fellow mindless, myopic morons trying to show their political strength. Richard Lippes showed his ignorance by ending his long windbag by stating that the past is our future. What a crock of shit. It is exactly that type of thinking that has caused the continued decay and decline of the City of Buffalo. No wonder any new investment or expansion completely avoids the city and goes into the suburbs instead.
As someone living within several blocks, my fear is yet more damage to our historic neighborhood. This development is a "modern/contemporary" building, and totally unsuitable to be built on this Olmstead circle. I am surprised that Buffalo RIsing hasn't noticed this grave issue.
Well, I've done my best to raise this discussion past the level of name calling and flamethrowing, but since none of you seem to be in any way interested in having an actual discussion, I guess I'm wasting my time. I'm amazed that so many of you seem to think that insulting people somehow negates their argument; that if you can outshout someone, you have somehow made your point; and that without any formal training, you know all there is to know about urban planning, population densities, and the myriad of other disciplines that go into maintaining and growing a city. Your most popular argument, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, seems to be that somehow the entire future of the city of Buffalo depends on getting this one building built. The second most popular is well, we think it's a good idea, so who cares what anybody else thinks - even people with a lot more training and experience than we have. I mean come on - if you can't tell the difference between the impact on AREA (not city) resources of rehabbing existing structures and adding new ones, it's obviously pretty pointless. I guess that's the reason I thought most of you were so young; because your arguments are so immature, unformed and uninformed. You don't even seem to be aware of the huge, well documented push to showcase the city's amazing architectural heritage, let alone that it has one. So, you get your wish. You can now continue to be a bunch of George Bushes, surrounding yourselves with yes-men and accusing anyone who doesn't think like you of being unpatriotic. Congratulations. And please, feel free to move to those big cities with modern buildings that you all seem to love - there are plenty of us here who appreciate what Buffalo has to offer.
SO TYPICAL BUFFALO...YOU F#@%$#@CKING LOSERS ARE TALKING ABOUT CURB CUTS!!!!! EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO PLAY GOLF AT THE WYNN GOLF COURSE, GET A RUB N, THEN GO HIKE RED ROCK CANYON. THIS IS jet2vegas..... THEY KEPT BLOCKING ME!!!
WHAT ARCHITECTURAL & HISTORICAL TOURISM? WE HAVE NO TOURISM...PERIOD!!! YOU CRUCHY HIPPIES REALLY HAVE TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE GRANOLA...NOONE COMES TO BUFFALO TO SEE THIS STUFF!!! WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTION TI BUFFALO FROM HERIATGE AND ARCH. TOURISM? A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS??? I MEAN REALLY... ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FROM YOU OBSTRCUTIONIST ASSHOLES... LET THE PROS LEAD THIS CITY AND GO BACK TO SPOT COFFEE AND STINK UP THE JOINT
flyguy: Great comments. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Keep in mind that every young and passionate person like yourself that leaves town tips the scales in favor of those blocking progress. We are not too far away from some great things.
We definitely need to show them that we are serious about this building and need to show up hours earlier for the next meeting. Please continue to tell people about the project and the pro-petition. We need to have more of a voice in this. Can't let this one slip away. Let's become BIZZARO Buffalo and take the reigns from the old school mentality.
Aren't there "air rights" in NY state, or is that only in NYC? I know that in NYC an apartment building, for example, can buy the air rights from the property owner next door who owns, say, a shorter building. Thereby the property owner with a tall apartment building can ensure that views and "airflow" are never blocked because he or she owns the space over the neighbor's building. If Parklane Condos owned the air rights over the old Parklane Restaurant, then it would seem to me that they have a case. As it is, they have... well thin air - and their desire to hang on to it at all costs against the will of the wider public and the owner of the development site.
Theres a special place in hell for people who go out of their way to stop society from progressing and stopping any chance that regions will rebuild confidence after years of economic decay and revitalize themselves. This living in the past mentality NIMBY crap is ruining any chance that this city will rid itself from the horrible reputation it has built for itself over the past 50 years. And another thing...yet another opportunity for positive NEW development in a town surpassed by the US economy got me to thinking about the fight people keep having in this town against new development. In 50 years will people living there feel as passionate that a building that has been long established in the area is there? Did city residents in 1902 fight new development that was going up all around them? Our historic buildings werent historic when they were new and being constructed and yet now I bet we thank them for building them because they help make our community what it is today. Why the hell would anyone so feverishly fight nearly all development proposed in this city for whatever reason (mostly NIMBY mentality). My god if we had that mentality back then we wouldnt have the city and buildings we have today. People have become very selfish and what ever happened for the greater good of the people now and in the future. I'm sure if I grew up around the new park lane condos it would be no different then growing up next to the park lane restaurant that used to be there. And why? Because these developments become a part of the community, you get used to them and I assure you people 50 years from now wont be so damn bitter about it. The project is not a blunder like the convention center as it sits today, or an open 33 expressway (instead of a tunnel). Build the damn thing and I really hope some court judge doesnt suck up to this obstructionist mentality anymore and kill this thing. This should be thrown out in court. What ever happened to the benefit of the community? What ever happened to the benefit of the region? The greater good? The building is not bad at all and might actually show that we have some balls to get something new in our urban landscape. Cities are dynamic and ever changing and as such should have both new, old, demolished, and proposed for future aspects about them. Damn it you obstructionists in this town sell your car, build a pony house and a carriage and dress in 1890's victorian garb to show us where your mind truly is at!
I am pretty sure the next meeting would be June 19th unless they call a special hearing. Keep an eye on this link for the agenda http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Home/Leadership/City_Departments/Office_of_Strategic_Planning/Planning/Agendas
mister chips: warning; more sarcasm ahead. let's stop this project before it starts because preserving gates circle as is what I want. love that rite aid down the street and the smell & sight of those gas stations on the corner of delevan are really special to me. screw uniland; my faith lies with the residents of lancaster and the park lane b/c they truly are looking out for us all. we all know that they're not out for themselves on this one. and, why blemish our record over the last 40 years of getting every major development decision wrong?
LanyV - do you know what items they will specifically be discussing at the next meeting? (curb cut lawsuit, environmental impact study, design issues?)
Thank you for providing the mailing information - Much appreciated. I assume that the next meeting is still set for June 19th as previously mentioned?
Thanks
LanyV - thanks for your follow-up on this.
For those of you interested in attending the next meeting, I urge you to call the Mayor's office at 851-4841 or the hotline at 851-4890 and ask Mayor Brown to get involved in moving the tenatively-set June 19th Planning Board meeting to a larger venue. My calls were sent to the office of Strategic Planning and then to Common Council, but they don't always listen to me.
Build it. The traffic argument is bogus. I can pull a rudimentary traffic study together (trips generated) in about a half hour on Monday if anybody is interested. I guarantee it will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower that that of the restaurants peak.
And complaining about noise? Seriously, stop scraping the bottom of the can. You know, Mr. Issa has been renovating the historic broken elevators in the Statler, maybe you should protest that. Or start massing up your opposition to his "abomination" of a tower.
Lose all credibility so that when the time comes that you jump aboard a fight worth fighting, you'll be discredited and we really will lose something worth keeping. Yeah, that's the way to do it.
Glencora - I'm usually a nice guy, but the following statement is absolutely absurd:
"5. There has been absolutely no information disseminated regarding the ability of the power grid, sewer, and water systems to accommodate the proposed tower. The area is already subject to brownouts at peak usage times, and there is currently no way of knowing if the grid could handle the increased demand. The same is true for the water and sewage systems - both could be overwhelmed by the size of the new tower"
Brownouts at peak usage times? Gee I didn't realize I moved to a third world country here... I sure hope the population keeps dropping so we don't have to worry about having enough power for our homes. Seriously, a 20 story tower overwhelming the city's sewer systems? They better close the City Center, Granite works, Sidway lofts and all those other projects you seem to think are good developments for fear that the cities infrastructure can't handle more people wanting to live here. Last I heard electricy and indoor plumbing were around in 1955, when Buffalo's population exceeded 500K
"The architect and designer from Uniland"
Did Uniland design really this building??? I think it was a shared effort between HHL and a firm in Toronto.
I really don't understand why BuffaloRising only names developers and community organizations and not architects and architecture firms.
Well Glencora what do you do with that very pleasant stretch of sidewalk you talk about,... Sit on it,... Lay on it, ... Have dinner parties on it?. It's a sidewalk!!! And why are they required to give LIppes a copy of the plans? Did he request them in the first place? Or were they under some sort of court order? Did you ever stop to think he may never have asked for them. And Big deal, you lived in other cities. so have many of the rest of us . And Yes, I'm old enough to have owned several homes and condominiums around the the country.
It seems like those who obstruct everything are not thinking at all about the younger generations that live here and want to see progress. Why the hell do you think 500+ thousand young people have left this area? And belive me they most all probably felt sick leaving this wonderful area, their families and friends. They left because of a bunch of people who cant stand anything new in any neighborhood. They left because each time something new and exciting comes to the table it ultimately dies and nothing happens. Wheres the new convention center? Wheres the new Peace Bridge? Wheres 50 Court? Wheres the zoo? Wheres that indoor amusement park? Wheres the hotel on Elmwood and Forest? Why does Blackrock still stink like raw sewage? Why has it taken so damn long to get the toll booths removed so we can actually stop the backups and dangerous traffic situations in the morning? Why is the prospect of a new industrial plant (ethanol) in a historically industrial area get fought? Why was Starbucks fought on Elmwood? Seems to me it fits in pretty damn well. Why was the GAP fought on Elmwood Ave? Are we really that snooty around here? Why do we get stuck with a temporary casino when we could have something big to add to the downtown area? What happened to the metro rail getting expanded? Why was the HealthNow headquarters fought? Why is everything fought or killed? The problem isnt that one neighborhood fights a project, its that every neighborhood fights every project and its usually the old set in their ways types that are probably retired and have time to fight everything so the urban landscape can maintain its 1920's character that they remember. What ever happened to building better communities for the future generations? I'm a 26 year old professional with a masters degree and its just this sort of thing that is the reason why I am moving to Virginia within the month for better opportunities in a land where economic growth is valued and not killed as it is here. Add me to the list you bastards who kill every prospect this town has of regaining some strength. These projects die because the old timers are the ones who go and vote and are politically active as hell. The rest of us go to work everyday and lead busy lives and just hang our heads in shame when some small group of special interests get all pissy and call lawyers up to screw projects. Its time for the younger generations to start voicing their opinions about what this city should be going forward to drown this crap out. I wish Uniland the very best.
I was at the meeting yesterday but unfortunately I arrived at 830 and was forced to stand in the hallway for most of the meeting and could barely hear a thing. However once I got inside I noticed a few things... if construction started tomorrow on the tower then the majority of the opponents would be dead before construction ended because most of them are 100. The biggest concerns of opponents are a curb cut, the side yard being to small, shadows and loss of view. Oh yeah and one park lane condo resident said the building was poorly designed and doesn’t fit in the area and would ruin gates circle "one of the prettiest circles in the city” I wanted to slap that hoe. The park lane condos are in contention for one of the UGLIEST buildings in the city... right up there w/ the convention center. So after the meeting adjourned I went up to the Uniland team and apologized for the bullshit they have to go through.
When I was leaving city hall it struck me that buffalo will probably miss out on a multi million dollar investment because of a sidewalk, grass and a few peoples views of the east side. Way to go crotchety old bastards. P.S. I think it was even the mayor who said, no one has a legal right to a view. I'm only 19 so I didn’t speak at the meeting because I wouldn’t be taken seriously but I wanted to say, "We are in the CITY of Buffalo... shit gets built in cities. Views get obstructed. When is Buffalo going to leave 1800 and enter 2007?
as stated in previous posts - - - i'll buy two units off plan - who's the realtor?
Glecora, you wouldn't last 2 minutes on a witness stand the way your facts are changing. You admit you may have misunderstood this or that. What else didn't you understand. Your credibility is shot as to what you heard, or didn't hear. As far as Buffalo's infrastructure, It's built to handle 700,000. So I guess your doom and gloom is a little misplaced. The sky is falling... The sky is falling ...
Are there any residents of this condo that are in support of this project? Who are the 2,000 souls that signs the petition to kill this project? I find it hard to believe that 2,000 people would knowingly sign such a petition against breathing new life into that location.
bgrillo@city-buffalo.com This is the email to Bill Grillo, head of the planning commission. Voice your support through email.
i was there, and the room smelled old, not because 100 people were packed like sardines into what essentially is a conference room (note to buffalo:check availablitliy of common council chambers...), and not because the median age of those in attendance that were mostly opposed to the project was 82, it was the idea that a positive like this project could be brought done with such simpistic obstuctionist tactics.
The building, and the presentation by the developer and architects was actually quite thoughtful, and the stale arguments against it, were frankly embarssing. I for one will be there again in two weeks, at 7:30am, saving seats for anyone else who wants to show their support for this project.
I couldn't agree more with 300miles. This issue has nothing to do with age. It's a mark of really weak thinking to assume that because many Park Lane residents are old AND oppose the project that ALL older people oppose the project.
Let's keep the conversation civil and not personalize it destructive ways.
Thank you to the people who came in to listen and comment but left because nothing could be heard in the hall. If you were there to speak on the project and couldn't get in (or wanted to speak but couldn't take the hours away from the office) please send a letter to the Planning Commission. The adjournament gives people who care a chance to be heard in writing.
"Gaustad" asks about the curb cut lawsuit, "why bother"?.
Because of the laws. Because of the precedent set by allowing the City to violate the law. Only one household on Lancaster Avenue has expressed that the curb cut is okay.
Even if you love the idea of a new driveway from a site that will have over 160 parking spaces you may be concerned in the future about another project elsewhere - a project you do not like. If the City is allowed to issue permits without due process they will continue to do this.
If you don't like the present laws you should work to change them. I work to protect the laws we have. In spite of all the griping here by the "build anything anywhere crowd" I haven't heard of any news from City Hall that people are asking to abandon our zoning laws.
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