Interesting concept, but financially we must think realistically. A new parking garage would probably cost much less than transforming the aud. You can't just assume that if a new ramp costs 15 million then we can just use that to change the aud, adaptive reuse always costs more than a new build. That said, it is an interesting proposal.
Yeah but the important question is, does rehabbing the Aud cost less than $37million? If it does, even by a small margin, then its worth it.
Oh, delicious! What do I say? Why didn't I think of this? An absolutely fantastic idea! And if the numbers don't work... throw some of the Bass Pro bait money in the minnow bucket! This truly is a great idea. An outstanding idea. I'm not kidding... this made my day!
I think Robert Coles idea for transforming the old Memorial Auditorium into an intermodal transportation center should be taken more seriously. In RObert Cole's Buffalo News editorial he emphasized that by utilizing the sites location as the crossroads of the region our city could come to possess one truly unique gateway into this great city. Metro-rail, Amtrak and Greyhound are all located within a stones throw of this magnificent building, which means all could be relocated raher cheaply one would think. As another positive note as Mr. Coles put it, the old bus terminal could be relatively inexpensively converted to a new ECC student Union. I just think that ll this talk about demolishing the Aud is a little shortsighted. The money is already alotted for the Bass Pro Project. This is Buffalos chance to get their Grand central Station downtown...And what the hell ever happened to plans for the new multi-use transportation center down there anyway. I guess the city just got caught up in the Bass Pro fever and forgot about this very practical reuse project. As for the parking why not make that a componenet as well, along with specialty shops and boutiques this project can seriously make an impact on the lower Main street area downtown. Why hasnt Larry Quinn or anyone representing the Erie Canal Development Corporation looke dinto this idea more??
If some kind of plan was in place to connect the old aud into the waterfront plan i would be for it. Or if this plan was some kind of modern design to break up the high winds of drive threw traffic . A parking complex could be practical at this kind of axis though i still feel it might deter the grand open view of our waterfront district. The artist does us no favors by removing the skyway and leaving no suggestion of the 190. if we made the aud some kind of hub for the off shooting sections i would be interested. but for me that land could be taller and has the need for connective tissue. trust me i was in the toyfest parade.
go sabres!
I'm no architect, but couldn't the two ideas work together? Intermodel on the ground floor with the parking ramp above making it a park and ride worth utilizing?
yeah it is such a huge building it seems like a big waste to just demo and throw it all in a landfill somewhere. Asbestos abatement has to be done no matter what happens to the building, demo or reuse, so it is a non-issue. As for money to convert it for a new use you can't just look at it as a demo v. new building you also need to add in the numbers for a cost of new construction to the scale and size of what we have already. Sure you can demolish it and put in a walmart for cheaper but that doesn't help the city or the urbanity that we are trying to promote in downtown, especially next to our historic terminus. When you put it all together it is a different story and renovation, while involving some outside the box thinking, isn't as expensive and most would like to make it seem. You would spend a small fortune to create a building with as much space as the aud for any use, office parking, whatever.
I also support the idea that this site should incorporate a new Amtrak station, something that gives Buffalo nice gateway for those coming into town via train or bus. The space of the AUD could do that without much intervention, let part of it be what it is, but just program it for train travel. Hell you could even put some seats back in for the waiting area. Plus as more and more tourists come to town creating a legible transportation is important. Think about the NCAA tournament. Instead of having extra buses, and people showing you where to go you would just need a sign pointing to the AUD that said, transportation center. You can get anywhere from here. You know, that sort of thing you do in other cities without realizing it.
MR, yeah, I don't think either idea is mutually exclusive, in fact if you were to have a propper transportation center parking would have to be an integral part of it.
There is plenty of space between the building and the street to face the structure with housing or mixed use so it could be better integrated into the redevelopment of lower main. Its location is too important to have no street activity surrounding it. It would be a huge dead zone if it were just a parking garage. (a set back parking garage - even worse)
Yeah this is actually a concept worth getting excited about... turn the Aud into a massive parking facility, which would replace every single surface lot in Cobblestone Village and then some.
But did you see the article in Business First this week? Mayor Brown wants the Aud demo'd and sooner rather than later.
My prediction (and I know this will get Marilyn and her crowd belittling me again):
1) Five years from now The Aud will remain in its current form - boarded up, shuttered, and an unused eyesore.
2) The Aud will be demolished, paved "temporarily", and five years from now we will be looking at a vacant shovel ready site.
Props to QE for a great piece... wish it would make a difference. But it won't. Take that to the bank.
Buffalo Falling.
First I will agree that some of the comments posted on this site are more idealistic than realistic. But if you think you can somehow foretell the future so accurately, why don't you do something about these things. Get involved in forming some kind of advocacy group. Do something if you think this is a waste. It just gets old to hear you knock the city. Maybe if you weren't so sarcastic and were more constructive in your argument your opinions would be more well received on this site. You have a lot of good things to say.
Also for people who complain that Buffalo is such an awful city then just leave. It gets old hearing people whine and complain. No one is holding a gun to your head to be here.
I think the Aud as a parking garage is a good idea but knowing our city and common council this one won't get done anytime soon.
Can we organize as a group to make the Aud an intermodal transportation center? Just to reiterate what people have said: buses, Amtrak station, parking ramps, retail would be a good combination.
Great ideas. Just one addition, I know some feel there is too much parking in Buffalo, then I have to ask, how come parking prices keep going up and up? Just because parking is more expensive at "Main events" in other cites is not a good justification in my opinion. The laws of supply and demand should dictate our parking prices and I'm not sure this is the only force influencing our prices. When all the parking is controlled by just 3 or 4 companies(not sure what the actual number is) then the potential for collusion exits. Taking a hint from our Canadian counter parts. WE NEED a city controlled parking ramp. It would be a great source of revenue for the city, create a TRUE competitor to the current parking moguls, and allow the citizens of Buffalo a reasonable rate for these "Main Events" taking place in OUR city.
magum said: "WE NEED a city controlled parking ramp."
I couldn't agree more... only I'd use the term "public" instead of "city."
I'm really not sure... and I'm kinda stickin' my neck out here a bit.. and I don't like to participate in any rumor starting or spreading... and again, I'm really not certain nor clear on this... BUT....
Isn't there some sort of "relationship" between the downtown parking lords and city or county hall... or something like that? I remember somebody, somewhere, discussing something of the sort sometime ago.
Appologies beforehand if any of this offends anyone.
The lord of parking is carl palladino
He gives alot of cash to all politicians.
I believe he owns most parking in CBD and sits on the parking board.
He's the same man who allowed the Webb Building to fall to it's current state.
Id rather the interior be demolished and rebuilt as an office complex much like the Ellicott Square complex with offices around the periphery and a central atrium
Would rather Buffalo return to having two multi-modal stations 1) DL&W for Great Lakes Ships, light rail, bus, taxi's with a feasibility study for rail lines. Oh and an light rail extension south for parking and parknride 2) Central Terminal for Rail, Light Rail, Bus, Taxi, Parking & ParknRide
Using the aud as a train/bus station is a joke. We barely have enough people using the existing stations to warrant their replacement. This location is removed from attractions, retail, and hotels, which makes it no better than the current stations. The fact that it used to be "the aud" will probably escape most travelers and would not make up for the lack of attractions in the area.
I used to travel by train more than plane, and can tell you that the nicest train stations to visit are the ones with something to do during stop-overs and changes. Just like airports, the best ones offer travelers something to do besides sitting in the waiting area. So adding a train station on a parking ramp is probably not the best idea.
I believe that turning the aud into a parking garage may be a good idea; however if things go well and we have a viable waterfront, we have effectively put up a barricade between the waterfront and main street. We may regret this in the future.
This is a great idea. I defenately think that the aud has enough space to be turned into parking and a transportation center. It could also provide long/ short term parking for the train/ bus station and another park and ride. In addition people wont have to rely on the surface parking plus it would bring in revenue to the city. Lastly an answer to chiknlil is put in some retail space near the train/ bus station faceing the waterfront. all sorts of spin-off development can go on here. also if they have a layover passangers can go to the waterfront. id love to see a group started to get a movement started for this idea.
I like the idea of converting the former AUD into a more usable space; however I am concerned about the originator of this movement. I visited the "Buffalo avenue of America" site and found a section for "donation", and an area for local merchants to pay for advertising on what appears to be a very crude website with a corresponding PO box and third party voice mail system. I could not find an indication that this organization is a not-for-profit / 503(c) designated charity organization; so there is no way of knowing what will happen to donations if sent. The owner of this movement also started the "ship your appliances to Iraq for peace" movement a few years ago. He and his brother promised tax credits for household goods and donations, without the appropriate tax id or exempt status. There is no follow-up regarding donated items or the status of his efforts.
I like the idea, and I have nothing against the owner of this movement, in fact I applaud him for his noble efforts; however I would like the 'buyer to beware' when / if contributing to these campaigns.
Perhaps this movement would have more credibility if they joined up with one of the existing and more recognizable groups like the New Millennium Group, or Buffalo Place.
What I meant by organizing is that people like us should do something if we want to see something done. Citizens need to take action, not wait for the governemnt to do something or we will be waiting forever.
The staff at Buffalo's Avenue of America has made notice to the city of Buffalo that up to $22 million could be saved simply by converting the AUD into an indoor parking ramp.
How do they know this??, I like the Aud but I also beleive it should be torn down to make way for something new, We must deal with the facts If 22 million can be saved prove it, If it is just an assumption, then spare me your thoughts, and do we reall need another parking ramp.....Hey maybe we can save 22 million and put a indoor roller coaster in there, IM PUTTING THE CITY ON NOTICE
becker, you're right. I, too, have my concerns about the Avenue of the America's folks. To change Busti Avenue into the main drag from the Peace Bridge to the city center seems a bit off-center as Niagara Street is the main drag, a state road, and will be undergoing renovation soon. As well, having filed for 501 c 3 status successfully in the past, it's not an easy chore and they're accepting donations without notification that they are a nonprofit rings an alarm with me.
However, the idea/concept for the Aud is interesting if it can be done within those estimates. Many folks have come up with ideas that have made significant changes to our revitalization scope here in Buffalo. Let's just consider this one another idea without supreme ownership and see if we can get someone with the ability to confirm or deny the cost-efficiency. Ideas should be put out there for public comment and even building upon, similar to Doug Hall's concept of an idea factory. (Jump Start Your Brain - excellent book - except the author DOES consider himself the reincarnation of Benjamin Franklin) :-)
The Buffalo Avenue of America website is amateur at best. Do you really think that Bass Pro is waiting for Busti Ave to be renamed and signed with "Avenue of America" to build on the waterfront?? What a Joke!
If we were to go ahead with the parking ramp, I could envision the main lobby of the Aud and the old Aud Club becoming an entertainment complex. The Aud club could become a sports bar/restaurant/banguet facility. On the opposite side create and amphitheater made up of Gold/red/blue/orange seats where fans can watch the sabres game on giant HDTV. With the ticket demand as it is for Sabres game, the average fan is looking for a place to watch the game. Where better than right next door at the Aud. The HSBC Arena is going to need parking as development continues.
chiknlil said: "We barely have enough people using the existing stations to warrant their replacement." I think it's a chicken/egg issue. I suspect a new station in the Aud would draw a lot of people who use the Depew station now (except those using the Chicago train which does not pass through downtown). The current Exchange St station is claustrophobically small and totally isolated. Although not a whole lot farther from Main St than an Aud station would be, it just sits there by itself under the Thruway overpass looking desolate and uninviting. The direct access to MetroRail would provide an Aud station with easier access for train travelers (as well as attractions, retail, and hotels that are not in the immediate vicinity). Admittedly, a new spiffy train station is not going to draw new business to Amtrak among people who are not inclined toward train travel anyway. That component of the project would have to be only one small part of a larger intermodal transportation/parking project.
Here we go again talking about saving that architecturally hideous old eyesore known as Memorial Auditorium. This latest proposal of converting the Aud into a parking ramp is a big joke. The only sensible and financially feasible idea is complete demolition and clearence of the Aud, it is not worth saving and the land that it sits on is much more valuable. No more unrealistic, idiotic proposals on saving the Aud. Its time for demolition crews to come in and vanquish this deteriorating concrete and limestone monstrosity along with the dull looking Donovan Office Building across the street.
Well its doesn't need to look the way it looks now to get reused, it only takes a good architect and a creative mind to uncover that ugly brown facing and reinvent the building. People are too busy looking at what is and now what could be. Look at granite works, the places was ugly as sin, dilapidated and missing a roof. People were trying to tear that down for years, now its apartments are filled and its a beautiful building. What is, is not what will always be. Wood, windows, stone, facades can be treated and replaced. The fact is the bones of the Aud are still strong and sturdy and can be re-used.
As for the the use chicken or egg station situation, I think what Amtrak should and was willing to do last time they were asked during the planning process for the intermodal station is to be able to consolidate their stations into just a single downtown location. It would cut down on their overhead and staff costs and putting all the passengers into one station would prove that more people use trains than most think. But many often stop using amtrak because they don't feel safe using exchange alone and have no way of reaching the Depew station. As for the route to Chicago, trains have this ability to move in two directions and to come into downtown and then leave along the same path. It is probably one of the most common things any train does.
2 things...
1. Demo the Aud, and allow a developer to file a Hope VI grant. With that low interest funding, a profit generating mixed use development can be done, bringing both people AND busines to downtown and the waterfront. This has been done all over the country, and it works due to the low interest subsidized by the federal government. This grant is set aside soley for urban redevelopment efforts.
And 2:...Steve P. Said this on Saturday...
"Also for people who complain that Buffalo is such an awful city then just leave. It gets old hearing people whine and complain. No one is holding a gun to your head to be here."
Seriously Steve P., did you not hear the news that 28,000+ (6,825 between 2005 and 2006 alone) people left Erie County in the last 6 years? That's 12 people a DAY taking your advice. I was just curious as to if you really do think that people moving away from Buffalo is the answer. I, for one, am of the opinion that the opposite is what we need. Just my opinion though Steve P....
http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=46452&provider=top
tjhorner1 -
There is such a thing as addition by subtraction. Depending on who we're encouraging to leave, it might indeed be helpful.
Why not think big? Combine all of these ideas, they aren't mutually exclusive. Can't the Aud become Buffalo's version of Washington DC's Union Station?
Why not make it the intermodal (Amtrak, subway, Greyhound) transportation center, add offices, a little mini-mall with legit retailers, food court, a legit restaurant or two, maybe a movie theatre. I don't see why we can't think big here.
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