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Welcome home George!

Mr. and Mrs. Bloviator would be happy to show you around.

Great to hear that you are coming back home. What type of employment are you looking for?

Maybe I missed it in the article but where exactly do you live now? Just curious what ridiculous southwest city you hail (and soon hailed!) from. Good look with your job search and welcome back to Buffalo!

Oh honey, this city just isn't what it used it be when you last lived here in '63. It has turned from vibrant to dull. But, Welcome back!

Back in 1999 I had the option to move anywhere in the country w/ Old Navy, & I chose to move back to Buffalo. After being stationed in Okinawa & Germany for 4 yrs w/ the Air Force, I settled in the Berkshires of Mass for a couple years. When I joined Old Navy, w/in 3 days I had an offer to go wherever I wanted...& of course, I had to choose home. You just can't beat Buffalo...although Germany comes in a close 2nd...it's hard to beat going over 100mph on the Autobahn!!! I hope everything goes well & you get to come back home George!!!

Sadly, sir, so many of the posters on this site think that just what Buffalo needs is for much of it to be "razed and replaced with concrete, glass, and streel." Then, somehow and miraculously, it will be "modern," "hip," and "cool" -- words repeated endlessly on this site.

You never know what you have until you've lost it.

I'd rather be in a more "Modern City" , to each his own.

If that pic dosen't show you why the Statler will make great condos I don't know what will. Imagine doing anything in your home with that kind of view in the background...

Welcome back George!! I agree that Buffalo has far more character than the majority of high growth cities in the country. There's still nothing wrong with new construction, however.

Mr. and Mrs. Bloviator, thank you for the offer! This Buffalo kid feels good about the warm welcome I'm getting. Paul, I'm looking for work in broadcast media, been in radio for 35 years, last 15 as an engineer and IT director, before that I was on the air--which is what I enjoy the most. I'm also looking at other media and PR, along with IT--it expands the possibilities. I live in Las Vegas--if you want a modern city, come to Vegas, 4000 of you do every month. If you want a city with soul, come to Buffalo. Yeah, it's not the same as it was in 1963, but there's a whole lot more that remains than where I am now. Buffalo is the genuine article.

welcome back, I wish you the best of luck in coming home.

There is no place like home....welcome back in advance!

George, send me your resume and I'll pass it on to that individual we spoke about in private e-mails. Great to see a St Margaret's classmate comin' home! Can't wait to have coffee when you return.

As far as the Negative Nellies - a city is what YOU make of it. There are plenty of things to see and do, and the revitalization efforts by, not only the city government, but also the neighborhood/community "shapers" is well worth perusing. I'd be glad to provide a tour of the area I live in (Lower West Side) as well as the Ellicott District and West Village. Outstanding opportunities here. As a matter of fact, we just had a house listed for sale on Johnson Park last Friday and one of three offers were accepted on the following Tuesday. 3.5 days later - a new homeowner who actually worked on the revitalization of this neighborhood previously.

welcome back George, that is good news as last night I attended yet another going away party for a repat [4 so far] that is giving up after two years. [going to another moving party in two weeks for another repat leaving]

Welcome back, cousin! See you on the 23rd!

There is no place like home...thanks so much Marilyn, look forward to having that coffee with you and seeing the neighborhoods. I think Miss Clapps would be proud of the work her students are doing!

I agree, the city is what you make of it. Instead of hanging with the negative nellies I'm coming to put some sweat equity back into my home town. I have a lot to give and want to put my construction experience to good use--hopefully it will be an example for others to follow.

George Thomas Apfel,
Welcome back home to Buffalo, you have made a wise choice in coming back to a northern city with character, diversity, and history. Like you, I moved back home to Buffalo from Austin, Texas in February of 2001 and I do not regret the move one bit. They can have the southern sunbelt cities and states because it is all sprawl, steel and glass, unfriendly transient people, low wages, high housing costs, and extremely uncomfortable hot weather. Yes I have been to Las Vegas and it is definately the ugliest city in America by far. Nevada is also the ugliest state in America it is nothing but 110,000 square miles of sand, sagebrush, rattlesnakes, and asphalt pavement. I do not blame you for wanting to come back home to Western New York. Again welcome back.

Robert Preskop, you always seem to make sense - thanks for your postings - they're a breath of fresh air.

I'm a repat, too. I've lived in Charleston, SC, San Diego, CA, Eugene and Dexter (yes, Dexter - where Otis Day and the Knights performed in Animal House), OR, Rochester, NY, and other areas. I have always come home to Buffalo. Why? Maybe it's in the blood, coming back to an area where my Sicilian grandparents landed and took part in the building of a great city. Maybe it's the fact that, for the most part, the people who have their roots embedded here, are truly genuine and believe in their heritage. Maybe it's just because it's home. Not quite sure, but I'm real happy here.

Every city, town, or village has its negatives - however, to truly discover them, you have to live in them. Buffalo has negatives, but it also has true believers who give endlessly of their spirit and vision. Look here, on BRO, it's proof of the pudding. It makes me proud to be a Buffalonian. We're a hardy stock and we can appreciate one another, despite our differences and opinions, we all have the same goal - a better city for a great community.

Welcome home, George!

Buffalo works for you people, your old! Buffalo is very dull for anyone under 30 years of age. If your looking for a place to retire and die, Buffalo sure hits the spot. Welcome!

We may be old, but with age comes wisdom, young Will D. You will learn as you mature, Grasshopper. :-)

So where do you hang out Marilyn? What hip and trendy spots downtown? Ever go out and just watch a street performance at anytime of the year? Ever go out and notice young people "In the city" driving around in expensive cars and dressed in suites"? Ever just go out and window shop and browse through floor after floor of great city shopping? Encounter a music video or big movie production being made and think nothing of it, because it happens "all the time"? -----Hmmmm, Did you get stumped?
I just described everything that is NOT Buffalo.

I think old people know the difference between your and you're. Other than that, it always amuses me to read comments from people on a blog dedicated to a subject for which they obviously have disdain. Why bother? Kind of odd.

Anyway, as you mature, Will, and spend extended periods of time in other cities, you may find that what you perceived in your youth as current and exciting turns out to be plastic and lacking a soul. Then you will want to come home. If, instead, you find those places to your liking, you're entitled to move there. Win/Win.

Will, it sounds like you will enjoy your life in an overpriced and overly pretentious city like DC or Boston. Go live life as a poor 20 something pretending that you have the cash of the 'old' fifty somethings. Spend your paychecks on your beemer and your suits while you compete with the rest of the self-indulgent 20 something jackasses out doing the same thing. Spend $10.00 for a beer, or $90 for a date. Enjoy the high-life my man, I'll take the boring BUffalo life anyday.

repat here as well.

i was with will in his thinking just a few years ago, so i left to explore. now @ 27, i'm back and couldnt disagree with him any more.

practically anything you can think of doing, is available to do in buffalo. honestly. and it probably wont cost you a killer amount of money, it'll be easy to get to, and you'll have fun doing it with other really chill like-minded people who are real.

it's all about the culture dude. if you're all about appearances, go spend a year in LA. you'll get it out of your system real quick.

Hmmmm, I can:
-Walk to the Theatre (at least eight or nine)
-Walk to every outdoor event throughout the year
-Watch ice skaters three blocks from my home
-Go to various excellent restaurants one block away
-Attend outdoor concerts four blocks away
-Go to three different farmers markets all within walking distance
-Share a cup 'o joe with neighbors and friends one block away
-Actually KNOW my neighbors and LIKE them
-Revel in the history and architecture in my own backyard (literally)
-Walk to an area where I can watch sail boats and other water craft
-Watch all types of sports for every season - again - within walking distance
-Help my community
-Help my neighbors
-Build a better Buffalo that I feel I am a part of instead of someone else making decisions and choices for me
-Have compassion that is not veiled by "what's in it for me?"
-Feel that compassion return by a bunch of folks who truly care
-Take a short drive to see one of the Seven Wonders of the World
-Show visitors things they could not experience within a 25 mile radius anywhere else
-Walk tremendous canyons and celebrate their beauty within a 30 minute drive FOR FREE
-Get from Point A to Point B within 15 - 20 minutes
-Use less gas
-Burn less carbon
-Experience lower prices in housing
-Buy a home in the core of the city for less than $150K (my son just purchased a home with less square footage than mine in LA - his is 950 sq ft - for over $600K)
-Cheer on the renaissance of my neighborhood as well as others
-Come together with like-minded folks for the betterment of our city
-And, thank the powers that be that I have changed from Will D to me in my viewpoints of what life truly is

Whoo, my fingers are tired, wish I could keep this list going, but there are just a few points for repats to consider when determining whether or not to return to Buffalo.

TO Marilyn and TO Will -

Can't we strive to have BOTH - staid and stable neighborhoods with a great sense of community, AND a hip urban streetscape catering to the upscale younger demographic? Both laudable goals. And not mutually exclusive.

And Marilyn - that Otis Day and Knights trivia was the gem for the day. One of my absolute favorite movies! Thanks for sharing.

"So where do you hang out Marilyn? What hip and trendy spots downtown?"

Chip Strip and her own backyard

"Ever go out and just watch a street performance at anytime of the year?"

Throughout downtown and the Villages surrounding it

"Ever go out and notice young people "In the city" driving around in expensive cars and dressed in suites?"

Not many people can pull off "dressed in suites" it would be far too cumbersome. But, if "young people driving expensive cars" is all you care about, I really feel sorry for you.

"Ever just go out and window shop and browse through floor after floor of great city shopping?"

Great shopping experiences are like this throughout the city along Elmwood, Allen, Hertel, and more...

"Encounter a music video or big movie production being made and think nothing of it, because it happens "all the time"?"

How often do you read this site?

" -----Hmmmm, Did you get stumped?
I just described everything that is NOT Buffalo."

If you can't figure out that the "collective we" were not stumped, then please, here's the door, go for it!

sportsroadtrip, don't know if you are aware, but I'm sure you might be:

The Dexter Lake Club where Otis Day performed was a small shack where I actually witnessed, and I'm not kidding, two mountain looking men playing checkers on a barrel in the front. It was such a trip.

These "love it or leave it" comments show just what is wrong with Buffalo. I'm as proud as anyone to call Buffalo my hometown, but if y'all aren't smart enough to admit its problems you'll never change them. Have we become so thin-skinned that we can't take some honest criticism and still feel proud of our city? BRO too often wears the rose-colored glasses.

Over $600k for 950 sq ft ??.........Dear God ! I have a friend who just sold his 1,000 sq ft condo in Buffalo for a whopping $120k. btw - This friend, after 44 years of a most comfortable life in Buffalo, is moving back to his home town in Massachusetts. I'm just waiting for the "I miss this" and "I miss that" comments to start dribbling in !

fill, I know what you mean - yeah - over $600K - it's in Echo Park - an area similar to the West Village (I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree) but it's an area that folks are willing to invest in - sort of gives you an idea that the $600K is low for housing there.

I guess we can all count our blessings.

As for the comment by City of Good neighbors, yeah, we do have problems, but what city in the US doesn't? Those "rose colored glasses" allow us to see beyond the problems and come up with solutions, knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel. If we all gave up, city after city, there would be no place to adequately call a good place to live. So, let's just allow the folks who want to work things out, do so, and thank them for their vision, since we will all prosper for it in the end. It's one thing to criticize from afar and do nothing. It's another thing to recognize need and come up with sustainable solutions.

I think "young Will" should honor his elders. If he criticizes peple for being old, then he should address them with a Mr, Mrs., or Ms., not call them by their first names.

Didn't this site just have a posting about a week ago about the Brain Drain? 24-30ish leaving this area? I'm 26 and am moving away this Spring to Atlanta. I hear they have REAL JOBS and a VIBRANT City. Do you people ever browse the classifieds here? They put in ads and make a job at McDonalds look Fabulous, that's so sad. Will I miss Buffalo? Maby not for a very long time, but then again, if the other 500,000 + people who moved a way in the last 50 years really missed Buffalo and decided to move back as mentioned too many times, then why is our city so DEAD with under 300,000 people? Hmmm, you do the math. If Buffalo was so great, we would'nt even be having posts such as this 'Oh, I'm moving Back"..Anywhere else, people would say "yeah, so what". But, because deep down, we all know how hard it is to even get 1 person to move here, we jump for joy and celebrate a post such as this like it's a big silver bullet or something.
Good luck Buffalo! Keep trying, but don't forget about the lack of jobs, the increase of murders, the poverty level in your region, and how, many people continue to move away for "A Better Life".

Steve has a good point that noone has yet to mention. If Buffalo was so great and everything was fine. Why would we even be postings stories of people moving back or moving for the first time? If you look at this from growing up in a vibrant area where people move in all the time, you really would look at this post and say to yourself "yeah, so what". But, in a city that has been losing so many residents for so long, it is like a big deal to hear of someone actually choosing to move here.
I myself am not a native, but here on business. I'd hate to say this and boo hoo anyone, but this area just doesn't impress me that much. Sorry folks. God bless those who want to make it better.

Stevie and Susan,

The reason that "moving back" posts are necessary are because of people like you. Buffalo knows that it's not a big city, that there are a lot of people out there who don't recogize its worth. So, when we see someone coming back, we like to celebrate that. No, we're not as big as Las Vegas, New York, or any of the other big cities in the U.S., but I think it says something about us that we are willing to celebrate what those cities don't. We don't say "Yeah, big deal." There isn't that "to-each-his-own" attitude here, and it's part of what makes Buffalo so unique.

If you don't like it here, then I'm sorry. But, there are many of us who do and you shouldn't try to put us down for it. To each his own.

So Amy, point being, you would most likely never see a post like this in the area of Atlanta, Las Vegas, Chicago, NYC, Toronto, because they are already vibrant and people move in and out everyday. But because Buffalo is a very small town that seems to have more people moving out than in. ..That it's a big celebration to hear of anyone moving in....With that being said, it's kinda sad.

Susan,
Buffalo is not a small town, it is still a major city despite its population loss. Buffalo can be a big city again if only we change the way we do business in this area. This city and this region still have tremendous potential. We can be very competitive with bigger cities like Chicago, New York, Boston etc. if we take the important, necessary steps one of them is to change the negative, depressing attitudes of some of the people on this site.
Stevie,
Best of luck down in Atlanta this spring because you sure will need it.
Oh yes the Atlanta Area has REAL JOBS BUT AT A LOWER PAY SCALE THAN HERE IN THE NORTH. Yes Atlanta is a vibrant, prosperous city WITH ONE OF THE NATION'S HIGHEST HOMICIDE RATES, ESPECIALLY DRUG RELATED MURDERS. The cost of housing in the Atlanta Area is astronomical as in much of the sunbelt south. As an apartment renter, you do not have as many rights in the south. Some of those southern landlords are heartless, greedy bastards that constantly raise the rents sometimes more than twice a year. Traffic congestion is a nightmare in Atlanta as well as in Austin and other southern urban hot spots. Atlanta also has one of the nation's highest rates of inner city poverty and there is also serious problems of poverty in its older first ring suburbs as well. This is the absolute truth about these so called hip, cool, vibrant cities that you, Susan, and Will all think are so great. Many southerners also do not like the idea of yankees from the north taking "their jobs"so do not expect a warm welcome to Atlanta. It is just not going to happen. The so called better life elsewhere is more a myth than true fact. Again good luck in Atlanta and we will probably see you back in Buffalo in about five or six years.

.Okay, here's my point - very similar to Amy's:

Yes, Buffalo has lost many young people and even "old" ones, too, Will. However, it is experiencing a renaissance. It's coming back. And more and more people are recognizing that fact. Before, let's say in the last 20 years or so, the only attention paid to Buffalo from out of town were those desiring to make a quick buck. Buy up cheap properties, illegally flip them, or use them as tenament type housing by taking advantage of the poor in the area.

True Buffalonians recognized this and took action as only as true Buffalonians do. They looked around every corner and devloped various plans to assure the flipping would slow down or cease and the out of town property owners who did not live up to their responsibilities were put on notice.

When a judge gets elected in the City of Buffalo, their "freshman" post is Housing Court. Most leave that entry position and go on to Criminal Court. When Hank Nowak, Jr. was elected as a City Court judge, he, too, started in Housing Court - but the difference was - he asked to stay, developed the Housing Court Reform Project, and turned the tables on irresponsibile propert owners.

The Anti-Flipping Task Force was developed and more folks are leary of that activity due to their dligence.

Now, we have some responsible investors coming in to town. They've seen the news, read the stories, and are aware that government and citizens finally got on the same page, somewhat but growing, and know they are being watched, if not by government, then by the people - who know who to call and when.

Hence, one major issue on the way to proactive resolution.

The next? Economic Development. That's on its way, right here, right now.

-New residential areas are popping in the downtown area. Adaptive Reuse is finally an action instead of just a term. Look at the work Signature Development (Rocco Termini) is taking on and successfully completing.

-The Elmwood Village, Hertel Avenue, and other strips are creating opportunities for new enterprenuers. Sure, they're not the Big Boxes, but when you take small steps, laying each piece of the foundation brick-by-brick, you have a sturdier substructure - and the BIG plus is that the people - "the People" - have taken part in it. It's not done for them, they take part in the effort, possibly even starting it, so they make sure it's successful.

-Neighborhoods have been taken back - literally - by those who live in them. They've been crafted with the love of their true owners - the residents.

That's why we celebrate those coming back - to home - because we are celebrating our collective successes in all the hard work we've performed. And, we deserve a pat on the back - especially if that "pat" comes in the form of a repat

When you take pride in your community, when you care about it’s people, it’s culture, and it’s history, you tire of endless Buffalo Bashing, people making generalizations and acting as if they are the spokesperson for their entire demographic. If that’s being thin skinned, then I’m also guilty as charged. If you don’t appreciate all that Buffalo has to offer, and see no hope, and you don’t do anything about it, then you are part of the problem of negative thinking and apathy.

You really should move to Vegas if you want to show off your Beamer. Although, buying that will be more difficult, the median home price is $303,000 and rentals in a decent area are priced accordingly—there’s a shortage of rental units because so many have converted to condos. Better account for hefty power bills during the summer, you will need the AC running around the clock once the temps go over 100, which is from May to October. You’ll spend a good deal of time sitting in traffic jams as well, our freeways are a parking lot from 6am until 9pm with the surface streets much the same…always remember on any given weekend there will be over a quarter million tourists in the city. Mass transit is improving but you have such great geographic distances to cover it makes any commute an ordeal. Good luck trying to launch your boat on Lake Mead, the water level is falling so fast the launch ramps are all dry from the receding water line. When you enroll your kids in school, they may have a substitute teacher all the time, the school district is desperately trying to fill the teacher shortage, which numbers in the thousands. Teachers are turning down offers because it’s become so darn expensive to buy real estate…the school district used to tout the cheap home prices as an incentive, now they offer housing assistance where they find someone to share an apartment with you. Get used to desert landscaping, the drought has forced watering restrictions. But nearly 4000 people a month find their way here in search of all the job opportunities…and Vegas has plenty of them. The economy is booming—but the price you pay in quality of life suffers. If you want a city that never closes, one where there’s always a party going on, then Vegas is your town. If your life is a nonstop party, this is the place for you. The mayor will join you by downing a few cocktails….

There are good things about being here, the fact we have 360 days of sunshine every year—as I type this it’s 70 degrees and the sky is the bluest blue you’ll ever see. The mountains are breathtaking; I can stand at the very top of a 10,000 foot peak working on a radio transmitter and be blown away by the beauty. If you look hard enough you will find history—I had a role in helping preserve a historic landmark, my high school downtown was saved from the wrecking ball, an architectural firm used my research to help them restore the structure to its original 1930 Art Deco grandeur. That’s the Buffalo kid in me, I care about preserving the past and have volunteered on other preservation projects. But I’m out of place here, it doesn’t feel like home. I’ve lost many long-time friends who have moved away to escape the same things I find undesirable…all long-time residents of this valley who have returned to their hometowns.

There is a lot wrong with Buffalo, Utopia is still a fictional place. But it’s home to me. Part of what makes Buffalo great are it’s great people, proof of this shown through an third grade classmate of mine goes out of her way to help make it possible for me to return home. Thank you Marilyn, you embody what is good about my home…genuine people who are actually DOING something to make it better. After 44 years away I’m coming home to help.

George,

I can't help you move...at least not the heavy things. Maybe the pillows and candles. Let me know which saturday. My weekends get tied up quickly.

would like to hear from our Black friends and neighbors about this topic. My Black friends are leaving in droves because if you think you have it bad here.... Whatever progress may be happening in this town is certainly not effecting 45% of the City's population. We are only as healthy as the proverbial "East side" and, considering such, we are fairly sick and getting sicker.

How about the Friendly Fruitbelt Coalition, the Fruitbelt Homeowners and Tenants Association, the Lower East Side Weed & Seed Group, Veronica Nichols, Elizabeth Triggs, Roberta Cates, Louise Bonner, Mike Miller, Michele Johnson...

I could go on and on, but space is prohibitive and my last posts have taken up enough. Unless you are truly connected with the efforts of so many individuals and groups on the East Side...well, I think you get my drift.

And, George, we have a solid connectivity between the east and west sides of our city. Blanket statements such as the one from hodgepodge should not be taken seriously unless the poster uses their own name.

By the way, thanks for the plaudits above, I'm sure you have many others who are assisting, as well. That's what we're all about here. :-)

MR: thanks for YOUR reply but I am still interested in hearing from your friends. I am not suggesting that the "East side" has no nieghobrhood groups. Of course they do and I know many more groups trying to keep their neighborhoods afloat. Point is: Elmwood Ave is not for everyone. Don't believe me? Ask your friends (& me). Point also is that if you think finding a job or acceptance in this town is hard, can you imagine....? Peace & Love

...Buffalo is undergoing a Renaissance. That's why everyone is leaving. And by all means, trash the South, trash Vegas and California and Atlanta, but don't dare point out the reality that is Buffalo. Just keep on pretending that chain doughnut shops and baseball cap stores mean downtown is back...nothing like a good dose of delusion.

There isn't that "to-each-his-own" attitude here, and it's part of what makes Buffalo so unique.

Very GW Bush. It's my way or the Skyway. Love the Queen City or leave it. You either think and believe like us, or you're against us.

Such a tolerant attitude. Could be another reason why so many leave this "progressive" city.

George, while we don't earn as much as other places we also don't pay as much for a whole lot more in amenities some of which are not offered other places. I have also lived else where and have found Buffalo a better bang for the buck. Besides our food is better too.

viking speaks the truth - especially regarding seafood. We need to get back to your place, viking - very good food and excellent company!

Of course the cost of living is so cheap here. NOONE WANTS TO BE HERE!!!! The lack of good paying jobs, the businesses that leave....Look up the census on average income in this area compared to other places and it's shocking. It's sad that the only people who defend this little town are older people who gave up on other places. Yeah, Atlanta has problems, like Buffalo doesn't? And, I'm sorry, but didn't OUR murder rate increase this past year?
What Renaissance here? Businesses moving into downtown from the burbs or other parts of the region? Yeah, that's really creating a large number of NEW JOBS. And inner ring suburbs in Atlanta are becoming poor? So are ours, and the problem with vacant homes is becoming a problem in such areas of Cheektowage and Tonawanda. Read the paper people.
Buffalo is not a big city, it may be the second largest city in the state, but any city that shuts itself down after 5pm, has more hicks than urban dwellers, has no national stores what so ever in the city limits, a useless transportation system that seems to the last resort to everyone (People in other cities use the public transit before driving-it's faster and easier, not here).. I could go on and on, but, you get the picture.

Marilyn Rodgers,
your son must have fallen far from the tree, he was smart and got out of Buffalo. LA is pretty far from the tree.

I'm sick of your mile long comments, tell them to your son

George: see what you started

weclome back, you'll like it here

As far as young people leaving Buffalo...Can you blame them? If your in your early 20's, what does this area really have to offer? Especially to a teenager? Nothing is avaiable downtown anymore, you have Elmwood, but that can get tired after awhile, especially if your not into "unique" shopping. One movie theatre with an awfull sound system and doesn't have all the movies playing, no major retailers, no excitement downtown unless your a drinker, only time the city seems vibrant is when an event is taking place, the only role models are crooked politics, run down neighborhoods that still have house fires set at least once a week....
Face it, Buffalo is poor, dull, and a very depressing place, especially if your young. It may be fine if your retired and hardly need to go anywhere. But, if your young and you want to see things, meet NEW people, go out someplace and not see the same people you try to avoid, go to a REAL Nightclub that plays NEW Music (so sick of the 80's dance and 90's techno playing at every club in this town), a place where girls actually look like girls and not dress like men, where people wont noticed the color of your skin or that you may have a swagger right away - an open-minded community which most Buffalonians seem to lack. A scense of safty, I'm sorry, but I do not feel safe walking alone anywhere in the city limits at night. I especially would never walk down Sycamore St. Genesee St., parts of Niagara St., and all it's sidestreets in the daytime either. First off, what's there? Second, it's just plain scary.
As soon as I finish school, I'm leaving this town too. Buffalo just isn't happening for me.

That's true, our city is sort of dull for the young. So sad we have to send our kids to a suburban mall just to have something to do on the weekends. I remember when Downtown was the place to be. Now it's a ghost town with no place to shop or hang out during the day. The shops along Elmwood just aren't the same, no department stores to browse through floor after floor, just store to store. With weather like this, it's not so fun to walk past several blocks of residential houses just to get to the shops again because Elmwood still isn't a true urban shopping avenue yet.
I do work downtown and was thinking of renting a new loft with the idea that retail and other great services were soon on their way. But, 5 years later, and still no new retail, just more closings. The Mall even closed two stores this past month alone and the Winter Sale they just had was offering "CRAP".
If your looking for a vibrant city to live in, make good money, never be bored, then Buffalo is not for you.

... cost of living is "cheap" here? Compared to where? NYC; sure, I agree. Compared to Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Columbus, etc.; no way. Buying a beer for $2 does not make a City cheap. Buying a house for less than in Pittsburgh does not make a City cheap when taxes, utilities, low appreciation, and low wages are factored in. Heck, we pay higher water rates than Phoenix; higher electricity rates than Boston; what gives?

... cost of living is "cheap" here? Compared to where? NYC; sure, I agree. Compared to Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Columbus, etc.; no way. Buying a beer for $2 does not make a City cheap. Buying a house for less than in Pittsburgh does not make a City cheap when taxes, utilities, low appreciation, and low wages are factored in. Heck, we pay higher water rates than Phoenix; higher electricity rates than Boston; what gives?

Just to throw my two cents in, I am a 29 year old living in Boston, MA and I can NOT wait to move back to Buffalo. I am gladly leaving a high paying job, sky high car insurance rates, on street parking in my waaaay overpriced apartment building (because we can't come close to affording real estate here), cold and unfriendly people and insane drivers, a high murder rate, why? To go back to a city where I won't be paid as much? True. BUT I will be close to my family, I WILL be able to afford a real house with land, I will be surrounded by a community that as a generality don't avoid eye contact and aren't afraid to say hi, how are you and mean it. I will very much be looking forward to all of the great things that there are to do in the area - visit Niagara falls and Canada, skiing at KB, sledding at chestnut hill, visiting the new restaurants in the city I read about on BRO. Maybe I will see a concert at the HSBC or Sheas, watch the Sabres or Bandits play, see a Bills game in the fall, head out to the lake and go tubing, hang with some friends on Chippewa (gladly pay for parking which is so much cheaper than here!). Oh, and I am proud to say that I look forward to starting a family and spending time at Darien Lake both the amusement park and the State Park which has gorgeous hiking trails with my children (they won't be soley entertained at a mall as someone sadly suggested is all teens have to do...). Now I have lived in a city that offeres endless possibilities of things to do and see, but there really is no place like home. I people like Will and Stevie really hate living there so bad, I am looking for someone to take over my 1 bedroom rent ($1900/mo not including utilities) and my car insurance ($1600) in the beautifully heartless town of Boston, MA if they think things here are that much better. For myself I'm with George, I'm comin home and have a list a mile long of things I can't wait to do!

Okay, "Don" - I'll keep it short - good-bye, don't let the doorknob hit ya - have a nice life - see you when you're all grown up.

Well! Ain't this a stinking kettle of fish?

hodgepodge, you remind me of a famous personality. Now, who could that be? Oh, yes, the comic book store owner on the Simpsons. All full of himself and negative facts and fictions. I bet you secretly are a member of the Star Trek Action Figures Fan Club, too. Sitting there at your computer, coming up with "that'll get 'ems" while hoping someone, somewhere, will eventually pay attention to you, amybe even love you someday.

For the youth posting here, you may be right in an overall view of what has happened here in Buffalo, but you don't seem to have updated your information. Much has been posted about this, but you'd rather not read the facts and keep to your own opinions, and that is fine since we all deserve to have opinions. However, if you really don't want to be here, then go on your adventures. That will be the litmus test.

Until then, lighten up and let the rest of us continue to work on our city to make it great. It will happen due to people like George, Mr. Preskop, and Ms. Rogers. In other words, stop having temper tantrums and prove us wrong.

My opinion may be discounted as an "old guy" I just turned 30 a month ago.

I guess I can see the point of the city being dull for a teenager (but how many cities are not), but for anyone else, I find that hard to see. Have you ever opened an artvoice? There's a section in the back that points out just about anything that's going on here, maybe you should look at that sometime. BRO does a pretty good job of pointing those things out as well.

When I moved here(for a job) about seven years ago(when I was in my early 20's) I was amazed by how much there is to do in Buffalo and WNY, there's always something going on.

On the employment front, If your considering the classifieds as you source for employment, that's probably your first mistake. I just went on iambuffaloniagarajobs(dot)com, and clicked the link for IT jobs, and there were 128 jobs listed. Searched all full time jobs listed and I came up with 678 listings, after browsing the first couple of pages I didn't see a single food service job listed.

Aside from that, It's hard to go from an Blue Collar/industrial economy to a White Collar/knowledge based economy without some loss(both in population and jobs) It's kinda hard for a machinist to to become a Bio-Tech researcher without going back to school.

I think for many people the best thing for them may be to move away, experience somewhere else. If they like it, good for them, if they don't they can move back. Like I said in another thread, it's just "trimming the fat", and I don't see the problem with it.

To get back to the original topic, welcome back George! Try the website I listed above, there's a number of positions you may be qualified for there.

We do have very high taxes here and very little services. I'd rather pay extra in rent just as long as I don't have to pay a fee on my garbage or get a ticket just because the cops want to be dicks (not getting a raise is not my fault). Other cities offer more for their money. We continue to watch out taxes go up and see no improvement, why bother staying here?

In a little less than a month, 2 more expats will be moving back to Buffalo. After 8 years of living in the south, it never felt like home to us. Following the recent birth of our daughter, we both decided that it was finally time to move back and settle in Buffalo, and bring an additional future Buffalo girl with us. We can't wait.

Betty, Hodgepodge sounds very logical to me. You're the one getting defensive, negative and tantrum-like. Why can't you Buffalo Jills face reality? Ignoring the many serious negative aspects of Buffalo won't make them go away. Buffalo can't keep its native population, let alone attract newcomers. These provincial, narrow-minded attitudes don't make Buffalo look very appealing.

Maybe you're the ones trying to convice yourselves you really like living here, you're so darn defensive.

I moved back to the Buffalo area 2-1/2 years ago after 12 years in overrated, overpriced, stuffy, pretentious and bigoted Boston, MA. You get much more bang for the buck here despite the higher taxes. We're very happy with our decision and we find lots to do with and without our two young children. I brought my job with me -- I telecommute for a Boston-based company. The telecommuting trend should make people think seriously about returning to affordable cities like Buffalo.

Betty: not a star trek fan but do love the Simpons; even the comic book guy, so, thank you. And, even though one can't be too sure, I think my wife loves me... Anyway, my (our?) point is that Buffalo is not cheap for a City of its size; that's fact not whining. It is getting more expensive while wages remain stagnant. Perhaps those of you who do not feel the financial pain I do (self-employed and doing quite well, thank you), have guaranteed government jobs with guaranteed pensions. Or, maybe, like so many Buffalonians your Daddy gave you the $ to buy your house or gave you your job. To point out problems (such as high taxes/utilities, etc.) is not to "get" anyone but to couter some of the postings which, in my view, are simply wrong. In my humble view, the problem with Buffalonians is not negativity, but unrealistic rose-colored glasses. Until that changes, along with the aforementioned cronysim, we won't change.

and to think that I almost skipped this post.......
Gotta go have a smoke and calm down.... I'll be right back.

I have theory on alot of the people that complain that the city is dull and boring. You ever stop to think that maybe YOUR the one that's dull and boring? My fiance and I are both 27, live in a loft downtown and always have something to do in Buffalo. In fact we are never bored here and all of our friends feel the same way. Like someone else said, the city is what you make it out to be. However if your a boring person, then Buffalo or any city will seem dull to you.

T- you asked "why bother staying here?" Ok, then why bother coming onto this site if you don't like Buffalo?

I love when people clamor that there's nothing to do, it reminds me of working in the Community Centers with kids. There's a gym, pool tables, games, books, crafts etc yet never anything "to do". I was restless once also, searching for the right job, house ...life for that matter. I lived in Raleigh like so many other WNYers but came back. Buffalo is drab, has crime and blight. But it also has character. Architecture sound boring until you live in a palce where every five blocks is repeated for miles. You notice this because traffic is in rush hour mode ALL day. The food sucks, the stores are expensive and you work all the time to pay for living someplace "cool". As I recall, everyplace looks the same when you go to sleep, dark. And no I don't consider myself old being in my 30's. I'd run circles around the so-called youth. Just wake them up from nap time and tell 'em I'm here.

Betty Booper, no one was pointing fingers as you and others like you have. As far as getting defensive, I don't see any defensiveness here from the pro-Buffalo crowd, just pride in their work and achievements in the past 3-5 years.

Like Betty Hasom said,
"For the youth posting here, you may be right in an overall view of what has happened here in Buffalo, but you don't seem to have updated your information. Much has been posted about this, but you'd rather not read the facts and keep to your own opinions, and that is fine since we all deserve to have opinions. However, if you really don't want to be here, then go on your adventures. That will be the litmus test.

Until then, lighten up and let the rest of us continue to work on our city to make it great. It will happen due to people like George, Mr. Preskop, and Ms. Rogers. In other words, stop having temper tantrums and prove us wrong."

Now, Miss Booper, its up to you and your friends.

Well, where to begin, and not have it turning into a book. Buffalo has its fair share of problems, always has, most likely always will (all cities have problems – but we are not talking about all cities, just buffalo). When we consider the pros v. cons of living in Buffalo, we should consider not only Buffalo proper, but the surrounding areas as well. Some of us will cling to very select points of view based upon where we live, but we (in general) will live and die as a region. Hence forth I will (for the sake of this thread) consider Buffalo / Niagara as the area in question, inclusive of surrounding burbs.

First to the point of there being nothing to do, this could not be farther from the truth. Lacking the motivation to partake in an areas offerings does not negate their existence. This region has something for everyone, and plenty of it. It is not my job to list them for you, muster up that motivation and dig it up your self.

Buffalo being a dead city, and no where near being on track for any, let alone a major come back. Did the opening of Atomic make the Chippewa strip a done deal? No, and like wise any single project in the city of Buffalo does not herald a renaissance like revival. Each project does however get the city one project closer to that goal. Just like the Atomic and the other bar owners who took that risk in the early 90’s, each risk taker helps make it that much less risky for the next.

Buffalo and the burbs are just trading tenants, there is no growth. To some measure, sure, and why not? This competition will make each municipality fight that much harder to attract business / residents. The advantages of this competitive environment will reach beyond WNY and attract outside investment / transplants.
Here again I will not prove my self, go to the library and do your own research.

Varied ageist comments. Listen, I am by no means an old man, I am also in no danger of getting seriously proofed to get a beer. I sincerely believe that if you are under 30 (give or take) you simply can not appreciate Buffalo for what it is (unless you are uber involved and actively seek knowledge). When you are younger than that you tend to still have the wild id running through your veins. It does take some people longer. Here is the secret… if you are bashing Buffalo, then you do not understand her, or somebody done you wrong.

Greener pastures. There are some people here shouting that they can not wait to get out of here (go, good luck, we’ll keep the light on for you for when you want to come home), and those people who are coming back to Buffalo (welcome back home). The vast majority fall into one of these two categories. Here is the one you never seem to hear much from… went away then came back, and then left again. Get it? The mistake appears to be leaving in the first place, not coming back. I should know, I left, I was gone a few years, I’ve been to most states, most continents, a good number of countries, and a whole bunch of cities. No where did I travel where I found everything to be better then what the Buffalo / Niagara region had to offer. Few places truly compare. If you are getting ready to bash, then you really don’t understand. It’s the total package; its more than weather, shopping, government, sports, etc…. we are more than the sum of our parts. Go away, learn, we’ll be waiting if you want to come back.

Kinda long....sorry...

too long Zombo.
----
This "diamond in the rough" reputation is unacceptable. Buffalo should be magnetic. Folks should be attacted to this place because of jobs, education, tourism, etc. They should be reading about Buffalo in business or medical journals. It shouldn't be about trying out a bunch of cities and concluding that Buffalo is a bargain.

- Getting 36 inches of snow in the past week is not going to help anyone want to live in WNY. That includes businesses. Don't fool yourselves, the weather matters.

- The problem with many people who move away and don't like their new hometowns is that they move to the wrong places - NYC, Boston, Atlanta, etc.

Move to the Midwest where the people are friendly, like Buffalonians! Move to Chicago, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Columbus or Cincinnati! That way you will live in a better city and still have great, friendly people.

- In the past five years I can't tell you how many of my friends and family have moved from WNY and have no plans of ever moving back.

So why should I move back to Buffalo when most of my close friends and family have left? I'm sure I'm not the only one in that boat.

Its cold, but the streets are clear, its sunny and the snow looks beautiful.

Having cheap housing is not a GOOD thing!

When I retire I can sell my house for twice as much as you can in Buffalo - or let my kids inherit it. Either way, it's better financially.

All of my family left Buffalo in the last 10 years and NONE of them want to come back. They are the best Buffalo Bashers where they are now. I moved away and came back to care for my parents, but, if I had a choice I would not be here either. It's a depressing little has been town. We should have been booming by now like other places have since the 90's.
Some may actually find the "Grass is greener elsewhere". Don't make it out to seem it never is, because I have been hearing about it from all my friends and family who have moved away. They all say "Why would I come back?, We make more money here, can afford a bigger house, less taxes, people are more outgoing and better weather.

I think that Boston created a very accurate description of what happens when you move away to a "bigger and better" city.

Being that I am still young (25 in a few weeks), I feel that I can understand why people would view Buffalo as having nothing going on for the younger crowd (both socially and economically). It was with this perception that, 2 years ago, I felt that I was being pushed out of the area and moved to Baltimore. Now, I live here with another displaced western new yorker and we spend most of our time with other expats discussing how we will move home soon.

I could go through and list many of the same reasons as Boston had for why I will move home. However, for the sake of avoiding redundancy, I'll avoid that. I will say though, that moving away was a great idea. Before moving away, I was more like Will and the others that feel Buffalo is a lifeless town for the under-30 crowd. I felt that a measure of success was proving that I could escape the region and that would be the way to demonstrate I was successful in life.

I have since learned how misguided my thinking all was. I don't mean to say this in such a way that I am seen as looking back at home with a pair of rose colored glasses on but to say that the experience of moving away and living elsewhere has given me a new found (and I feel better) perception of what the Buffalo area is and can be.

I enjoy Baltimore and what it has to offer. In a lot of ways, I view Baltimore as being what Buffalo could be in 10 years or so IF Buffalo could fully realize it's various plans for the waterfront Yet it lacks the warmth and general sense of kindness and camaraderie that can be found in Buffalo.

I cannot wait for the day when I pack up and head back home but I do not discourage other younger Western New Yorkers from heading away for a period of time. Afterall, it wasn't until I was away from Western New York that I fully realized what it was I had.

When living in NYC for 2 years straight, I did become homesick for Buffalo's Food. Nowhere in NYC can you get a real thick and cheap sub (Especially a John & Marys or Jim's Steak-Out), Nothing like a good Beef on Weck and most places in NYC don't even carry horseradisch or know what it is. Cheap and yummy taco's (Mighty Taco) forget about it, the places over there make them different and it's just not the same.
First thing I did when I came back to Buffalo was go straight to Charlie the Butchers inside the Ellicott Sqaure Building for nice big Beef on Weck, and later to Jim's Steak-Out for a Philly Steak Sub. ....Some places just don't know how to make it as good as we do here in B-lo.

Someone from Columbus preaching about the better weather there -pretty funny! The low there is supposed to be -1 - same as here, not Miamai, bud. The ski areas got the snow here, not the city.

I have nothing against Columbus, but it is not a 'better city', dude.

displacedinBmore:

That's what you get for moving to Baltimore!! It's a rat hole!! People there are so unfriendly it's ridiculous.

But you're missing a point that I made in an earlier post - you can't just move to any city and expect it to be great. There are good places to live and bad places. Buffalo and Baltimore are bad places, though I'd gladly take Buffalo over Baltimore any day.

Like Chris, I have so many friends who moved from WNY and love their new hometowns. I have a friend who moved to Memphis two years ago and loves it.

And now I have a friend whom I never thought would leave Buffalo in Florida last week for job interviews. He said he's had it with the politics, the weather and the economy.

He's 44 years-old and leaving Buffalo for the first time. I suspect he, too, won't be back.

For every re-pat mentioned on this site there are hundreds of others who don't want to come back.

This thread brings to mind that age old expression "one man's paradise is another man's hell"...and vice versa. It's getting tired.

Sorry for the book, but if you don't like it you don't have to read it.

- Getting 36 inches of snow in the past week is not going to help anyone want to live in WNY. That includes businesses. Don't fool yourselves, the weather matters.

... Your probably right, heavy snow 20 minutes south of the city, that's why Citicorp is building a new 400 employee data center on the other side of the snow belt. Nobody enjoys skiing, or snowmobiling. 36 inches is really a big deal when compared to hurricanes, earthquakes and tornadoes.

- The problem with many people who move away and don't like their new hometowns is that they move to the wrong places - NYC, Boston, Atlanta, etc

First, I think their are several million people that would beg to differ with you on those cities being "the wrong places". I think it has more to do with the fact that when someone is unhappy, they immediately blame it on their surroundings rather than take responsibility for it. If you're miserable where your at, moving somewhere else isn't going to change your misery, you'll just bring it with you.

So why should I move back to Buffalo when most of my close friends and family have left? I'm sure I'm not the only one in that boat

I don't think anyone is saying you should. People should move here because they want too, because they like it here. I moved here, and it was away from my friends and familiy, it was probably the best decision I've ever made in my life. I met my wife here (she's from out of town too). I have a great job(that I moved here for).

I like the weather here. The summers are amazing, not too hot not too humid. Spring and fall are temperate. Winters, aside from the occasional cold snap or snowfall, are really nice.

Real estate prices are great, you can get a good house at a decent price in a good neighborhood, and not be "mortgage poor".

It's close to Canada, if I want a big metro feel, I can go to Toronto, or I can hop a plane to NYC, spend the day and be home by midnight, all for less than $200.00

I feel sorry for people that have such a negative attitude about my adopted hometown. I really feel like you just don't know what you're missing. Perhaps that's why some of us get defensive, or all wound up about it. I've lived in another city, I lived in a small rural town. I've never felt the same sense of community as I do here.

If you don't feel it, or get it that's fine. I just don't see the reason for shooting down those of us that do like it here, or those of us that are trying to make a positive change?

What did Buffalo ever do to you?

"People should move here because they want too, because they like it here."

What about those who want to stay here for the character, charm, food etc. but know that there are better job opportunities in larger cities.

Jenny,

If you're dead-set on working in a particular field sometimes you have to move to do that. Otherwise you make concessions to stay where you're at, but that's true of anywhere not just Buffalo.

coolrobc:

What did Buffalo ever do to me?

That's my whole point!!!!!!!!

Buffalo sent away my friends and family.

Buffalo over-taxed me.

Buffalo forced me to take blankets and wear winter coats to Fourth of July fireworks.

Buffalo lied to me - promising more jobs, a developed waterfront and more entertainment options but never providing such.

For 40 years I hung in there, a loyal Buffalonian, waiting for Buffalo to come through for me and time and time again Buffalo failed miserably.

HSBC Arena was built 10 years ago and to this day not a single bar or restaurant has opened near there.

Time and time again Buffalo leaders failed to deliver on promises - they can't even build a simple casino!!!!!

And people wonder why there's such negativity? Sheesh.

-------------

"If you're miserable where your at, moving somewhere else isn't going to change your misery, you'll just bring it with you."

Not true. Otherwise, why are there so many former WNYers who are happier in their new hometowns?

Winter coats on 4th of July??? Thanks I needed a good laugh. If you don't like Buffalo fine but that is really stretching it.

Rick hates Buffalo so much he comes on this site and takes the time to write out long winded posts. If I hated a place, the last thing I'd be doing is checking out a website about that city.

RickInColumbus:

You're right. Baltimore is a rat hole. All the people in the greater Baltimore region are incredibly cold and callous people. In simplistic and broadly generalized terms, both Buffalo and Baltimore are horrible places.

Anyways, I think you missed my point. I more or less agreed with your statement on how you can't just move someplace and expect great things. My point was to show that I am testament to how wrong that perception is.

Rick,

Buffalo forced me to take blankets and wear winter coats to Fourth of July fireworks. How many times did that happen, seriously? For the month of July the average temperature is over 70 degrees. In the 7 years I've been here I've never need a coat past May.

The whole state is overtaxed, not just Buffalo.

Let me put on my armchair psychologist hat. I think there's a really telling statement in your response.

For 40 years I hung in there, a loyal Buffalonian, waiting for Buffalo to come through for me and time and time again Buffalo failed miserably. (emphasis added)

I don't think it was Buffalo that failed, more so the leadership, put in place by those of you "waiting" for change.

Buffalo didn't lie to you, it's leadership did. Most of the things that you stated were a result of poor leadership, nothing to do with the city or region, more to do with poor governance. Nobody made you your family or your friends move away, you and they chose to.

I think it's funny that you blame it on the city than where the blamed should be placed, on failed leadership. I still don't see why you have to shoot down those of us that are happy here, that choose to do something to improve our situation rather than "wait" for someone else to change it for us? I'd be interested in your response to that.

I'm glad you think Columbus is so great. I like it here, sorry that you don't. Why do you come to a site where people point out the positive point of life in Buffalo?

Mike @ 1:46 pm: Right On!

You say: Here is the secret… if you are bashing Buffalo, then you do not understand her, or somebody done you wrong.

Couldn't this be said about any place? Perhaps Robert "I hate the South" Preskop doesn't really understand Austin or Atlanta.

I understand Buffalo perfectly, which is exactly why I'm leaving. Again.

mike did not nail it--mike was way off. We need these "boring" people. We cant just ridicule them and dismiss their criticism. We can't make a city entirely out of silver lining urban pioneers.

Now I know why they call you "cool"robc. You are definitly "SPoT On!"

What a goddamn, immature, bore this is! Don't ever tell me, "Displaced," that Baltimore is a rat hole. Ever! Fool! Baltimore is a city that has ten times the history, identity, character, soul that Buffalo ever will.