Buffalorising has been redesigned.

Not a bad idea. In fact, it's a GREAT idea. You have many artists that will soon be living in Artspace - why not give them somewhere locally to sell their work?

I have been to Pike Place Market in Seattle, and after having spent hours there, I have absolute confidence that it would work here - on a smaller scale (that thing is like 20 blocks long!) Have an interior mall-like setting with permanent shops/restaurants inside (this is where the famous seafood shop is, the one where they throw fish all day), and temporary kiosk-type shops outside. The farmer's market that operates every weekend downtown (do they still do that?) could move there too. But one caveat - it NEEDS to be on the waterfront.

Let's do what Main Place Mall could not accomplish; that is, make a downtown shopping center a destination, not somewhere that we stumble upon while looking for something else. And if anyone has any doubts that this could work, check out the dirty old Super Flea on Walden in Cheektowaga. That place has been going strong for over 20 years, and I still carry Purel by the gallon whenever I walk into that place.

I have been pitching this idea to any politico who would listen since I first visited the Saturday Market in Portland, Oregon 10 yrs ago. No response.. Then, a couple of years ago we visited Tamarack, a facility in W Va that sells only work of local artisans. It is an amazing facility. Came back excited and inspired and spoke to Masiello. Yawn. At one point, I even gathered a dozen or so artist friends to see if we could figure out a way to start such a thing on our own. The tax and financial logistics stymied us. There are several available storefronts in the theater district that would be great for an indoor venue. In Portland, they set up outdoors, some under a bridge-like structure. Think "Skyway". Sort of indoor/outdoor. I wrote to Higgins just last week pleading that they not fill the new inner harbor with chain restaurants and retail franchises. I, once again, pitched the artist market idea. Gave him links to the Portland and W Va venues. No response. We have sooo many artists and artisans here. Professional, selling their work to make a living. I am excited to see BR take up the cause. Hope you do better at generating interest than we did!

Great idea--let's just make sure that if this does come to fruition, I hope it doesn't turn into a grungy Super Flea where most of the items for sale are bootleg or junk. I want to be able to go somewhere where I can buy interesting, NEW items and also be able to support local vendors. Las Vegas has an incredible indoor flea market (can't think of the name offhand) but it's really clean, the vendors sell new or antique (high quality) items, it has fun, cheap food vendors and costs $1.00 to enter.

A seasonal indoor/outdoor market filled with local artists/producers is one of the few things I miss now that we've relocated from Ithaca to Buffalo (other than that, I'm sold on what a hidden treasure Buffalo is!!) The Ithaca Farmer's Market pulled in parents visiting their college student, a place for free live music, and community, family activities (Ithaca Rutabaga Curl!) Having also visited Saturday Market in Portland, I can see how something similar can translate to Buffalo. Give it space, and it will flourish....people are always looking for something to make their Saturday mornings different than the rest of their workday week routine, and a weekly market space is definitely a draw. Why not combine forces with possibly relocating or revamping the Broadway Market, and draw on the history of that market? The more diverse a market, the better!

this is a great idea....how about the old memorial aud building on the water front?

malooga, ArtGypsy, MeliQ, aMusings, PussyGalore, and others - please consider sending me an email to help. Even if it is just a brainstorm session. We're hoping to get together over the weekend over coffee.

"artgypsy" perfectly typifies why projects like this haven't worked to date....'stymied by tax and financial logistics?'....maybe that's why politicians are not willing to take you seriously. this is not an art therapy public service, this is, in every case mentioned, a FOR PROFIT endeavor. (very little, actually NO discussion of that in here)Cut the airy fairy pie in the sky bull shit conversation and get down to some relevant issues....cost per sq foot of space, insurance liability, security, median incomes, discretionary spending habits of the local demographic population, the fact that down town gets cold and mighty friggin' windy??? If this is gonna be a full time job for someone to create and maintain, maybe it should pay a full time salary? (can you smell the heretical artist execution pyres being kindled over that concept?)

Maybe it cant look exactly like Portland or Chelsea? Maybe thats not a problem. What ever you do, dont count on Artists or Politicians, or anyone else you project a preconceived and totally unrealistic expectation on to pull you out of this morass. Artist, politician, antique vendor....essentially meaningless adjectives, there are good and bad in all categories.....how about 'people that actually get things done', now there's a descriptive and a personality type worth getting behind! Do the sell them in Portland? Do any of them read this drivel?

"artgypsy" perfectly typifies why projects like this haven't worked to date....'stymied by tax and financial logistics?'....maybe that's why politicians are not willing to take you seriously. this is not an art therapy public service, this is, in every case mentioned, a FOR PROFIT endeavor. (very little, actually NO discussion of that in here)Cut the airy fairy pie in the sky bull shit conversation and get down to some relevant issues....cost per sq foot of space, insurance liability, security, median incomes, discretionary spending habits of the local demographic population, the fact that down town gets cold and mighty friggin' windy??? If this is gonna be a full time job for someone to create and maintain, maybe it should pay a full time salary? (can you smell the heretical artist execution pyres being kindled over that concept?)

Maybe it cant look exactly like Portland or Chelsea? Maybe thats not a problem. What ever you do, dont count on Artists or Politicians, or anyone else you project a preconceived and totally unrealistic expectation on to pull you out of this morass. Artist, politician, antique vendor....essentially meaningless adjectives, there are good and bad in all categories.....how about 'people that actually get things done', now there's a descriptive and a personality type worth getting behind! Do the sell them in Portland? Do any of them read this drivel?

Nobody likes a back seat driver:
How does the farmers market on Bidwell pull it off?

How dare anyone denigrate the ultimate shopping experience here in my Town of Cheektowaga!

Talk to the people who ran the now defunct Bonwit Teller fashion department store at the Walden Galleria, and they will tell you that it was Super Flea which brought them to their knees.

*grin* Cheers to all from the Land of the Crabapple!

This is meant to be a constructive comment, please don't bash me for mentioning the suburbs. You may be interested in speaking with Kelly Shultz, Don Alessi, or Louis Barrafato to see how they created and grew the Antique World flea market in Clarence. This place is hopping on Sundays in the summer, and the indoor markets have grown substantially in the past 10 - 15 years and has become a destination for weekend shoppers.

I believe that this parallels what you are talking about here.

Get Buffalo Place involved, they have the logistical and marketing skills to make this happen.

Perhaps the farmers market on Bidwell pull it off because they are hard working farmers, and not artists or politicians? Do they pay rent? How much? Also it is on city property, and therefore any fees paid by vendors is probably considerably lower than going market rates. I cant say for sure, but I'm thinking Forever Elmwood has something to do with its viability, they are a group that has a successful track record of getting things accomplished, unlike say, the City of Buffalo, or the Allentown Association to name just two inept entities.

The farmers markets are definitely a place to start for finding the expertise, initiative and skills needed to pull off such a project, Buffalo Place is also a great organization that would be a logical 'go to' resource if anyone is truly serious about this project. My only objection is this kind of speculative na bobbing in cyber space that passes in some circles for civic action and involvement. Yeah this is a great idea, but a shortage of ideas has never been this regions problem. Get something done- that's all I'm saying, or move to the back of the bus.

Here's another great idea, kill the BassPro project that would appeal to a very limited, NON-urban audience, and start courting someone like IKEA, or the Albright Knox, or something with a broad entertainment / tourism appeal. Again there is no shortage of good ideas, there is however an appalling amount of apathy in this community and region. What we will probably end up with is a 'Butch' Holt restaurant franchise, or a Giambra office furniture warehouse.

thesportsroadtrip
--I too am from Cheektowaga and in fact live basically right behind the Super Flea. Yes, it is a fun place to go sometimes, in fact Tombak's Bakery inside has the best canoli and Linzer tarts I've ever tasted (they're from Rochester and the grandpa is a Holocost/conc. camp survivor---FASCINATING!!!) Anyway, it would be nice to have a market that is designed to be more of a true retail store, but allows anyone's line of NICE merchandise to be sold. Have it be open to anyone (who can afford to pay for the space) but maybe have an oversight person just to make sure there is no undesirable activity going on.

I know someone who used to have a booth at the Super Flea and she told me stories about a lot of people and goings on that made me think twice about spending a lot of time there. Buffalo, in my opinion, is kind of in a style, class, want to be upscale but doesn't know how to kind of slump. I would like to see a more funky, ecclectic, upscale Elmwoodish feel to more areas and I think with this market (if it happens) it should be a place where people can go to relax, shop for interesting products, have some great food, people watch etc. in an clean, family-oriented environment. I'm NOT saying that it should be expensive, upscale or exclusionary to some people, but I think there is a sort of ghetto, poverty pimp attitude (Tom Baurle's word) that pervades a lot of the city and the Super Flea is no exception.

the market on main in the Tri-Main Center on Main St. back in the early 1990s was essentially what you are describing (albeit an early 90s version). Fond memories of going there on Saturday afternoons.

Some place indoors for the winter, as well as being able to be outdoors in the summer!

Could this city support something like this?

http://www.pikeplacemarket.org/frameset.asp?flash=true

It would obviously need to be smaller. Maybe if we could fit Phase I in place of the Aud, and Phase II across the street to the south (across from the Arena.) Pike Place has a ground floor and a basement floor - maybe locally we do just one floor. This place is AMAZING and I would love to see it copied on the waterfront. It could be everything Main Place Mall was meant to be, without the demolition and ruination of the downtown core.

Questions/comments/remarks? I don't mean negative comments on why it will never happen, or comments telling me to get off my ass and make it happen. I'm just looking to start a dialogue as to the desirability or feasibility of such a project.

I think the lack of a market in this vein is what most people who have lived in other cities (i.e. ny, london, sf, toronto, etc) miss the most...

its something i never really tired of...hitting the camden or portobello market every saturday...just walking around...buying every once in awhile...

this would truly be a benefit

Going back into the past that provides a glimpse from one of the original markets - Chippewa Open Air - now the M&T Parking Lot - how about bringing it back with the blessings of M&T as a sponsor since the lot is underutilized on weekends?

Eastern market in Washington DC is a prime example. They utilize a parking lot for a school on the weekends for an outdoor market, while still having an indor market across the street. This place was wall to wall vendors, selling rehabbed furniture, arts and crafts, food, jewlrey, art, etc. etc. Think Streetside Walmart, only better.

We already have the start of this with the Main St. downtown farmers market in the summer. I've often wondered why there weren't other types of vendors on the street during this. Maybe get with Buffalo Place on this - expand the farmers market to include other merchandise as per the other marketplaces described. I could see both sides of Main St. lined with vendors on weekends - would make for a great weekend destination downtown.

There is an expression that goes..."free advice is worth just what you pay for it !" Do you think anyone is listening? Did anyone ask your collective opinion? Is anyone stepping forward to take this on? (M&T'S number is in the directory by the way).

Please pass the crack pipe, and I'd like to hear more about those Gotham City weather machines that will control lake effect snow.

Well, gollleee, backseat driver, which artist are you? Because I assume you were at our weekly meetings since you seem to know so very much about our efforts. Good grief.
That list of considerations you threw out was succintly described by me as "financial and tax" although I should have added "legal". We were imagining an indoor venue for most of the year, with a move to outdoors in good weather. Trust me, we want to make a profit. We were willing to put a lot of time into this venture and we did, but what we didn't have was financial backing or community support in the form of local politicians who might be able to advise us or support the effort. We made a lot of calls, talked to a lot of people. Even the SBA advised us to get the City behind us. Good luck. We gave it a good effort.
So don't be too quick to reduce us to your absurd bias about what an artist is capable of. You could have asked if we considered those things before you jumped on the "nobody knows how to do anything in this town" bandwagon. No, we didn't know how to get it done, but we tried. Some of us know influential people in real estate, government, the arts. We played all the cards we had.
I had meetings with the people from Portland's Saturday Market and with a rep from Tamarack. You know what they have? They have the support of the city, in Portland's case, and the State for Tamarack.
It really frosts my butt to have our efforts criticized by someone who has no clue about what transpired. ANd artists who make a living with their work are hardworking people. Try it some time.
AN artists market needs to be juried, but it also needs to have different work than what we expect to see at Allentown or the Elmwood Festival. Most of us do both of those already. There is a lot more to making this work than you might imagine. The last thing you want to do is have a negative impact on those festivals.

By the way, Buffalo Place was not interested and putting on a Farmer's Market or Art Festival is entirely different than establishing a public market.. Farmer's markets have specific protections and rules not available to others. But, see we know this on account of we actually, like, worked on this. Just sayin...

Central terminal?

Broadway market?

It's a great idea - check out their website for more info: http://www.hellskitchenfleamarket.com/

I've never been to the market in Chelsea or Hell's Kitchen, but it seems that it is a really organized affair. Proper tents, an application process (so there is no 'junk dealers' or 'piraters'), a VIP shopping list (which would be easy to do given BRO's talented web people), lots of directions and a great location.

I think the focus Buffalo should be considering is in the application process and the location. You want it to be an eclectic assortment, not just 80 tents of ceramics (or whatever) and of course, an assortment of 'stuff' (not just tube socks and hubcaps). So I'm guessing that some sort of standards need to be put in place. And as for the location, apparently that is one of the big sells of the market in NYC - so why not some place majestic or special - like near the Church on Delaware, on the Waterfront (near the Marina tower), Allen between Main and Elmwood or downtown near City Hall (the traffic circle)? Any place that show cases a view or life of the city would be terrific...you could even be more adventuresome and choose a few other neighborhoods that aren't traditionally thought of for events in Buffalo - as cited above.

The rest, as they say, is 'details - which, since so many here have the organizational skills, networking and background to pull off some of our other festivals, it should be reatively easy to hammer together. Tie it up with a website - and we're ready!.

ArtGypsy
It sounds like you are talking about a year round indoor art gallery. A business with heating and electric bills, taxes,mantinance, insurances, rent and all that.
Aren't we talking about a free, summer time out -door flea market. with antiques, jewlry, vintage collectibles, and anything cool that people might want to sell every weekend or on occasion.
These are two very different things.
And I agree with you, there are many hard working artists.

Nothing is "free". If I remember, Newell and the folks who started the Elmwood Festival were astonished at the cost and red tape involved. You can't just pitch a tent on a piece of property. There are permits and insurances and fire codes and all sorts of stuff even for a once a week outdoor market. We did not envision a gallery, we wanted a market.It just seemed lke a good idea to see if there was an indoor/outdoor venue we could use. It's the weather thing. The powers that be care not if you are selling art or antiques. It's all the same to them. Except for Farmer's Markets which, as I said, are a whole different ball game. If the city wanted to start an outdoor market, I'm sure it would be a whole lot easier for them than it was for us. Vancouver has a combination farmer's market and art market, but they are administered separately and I don't know a whole lot about it yet. Seattle's Pike St Mkt is a huge establishment that bears little resemblence to anything I can picture here. The artisans are in the basement and on the street behind it, along the waterfront. Maybe someday...

As for the terminal, you never know who owns that thing from one minute to the next but it would hacve been a terrific location for ArtSpace. The Broadway Market doesn't have the right kind of space. I think you want to be visible, festive, welcoming,

In Portland, you can go to the market at 5:30 am with your stuff and they will jury you right then and there if there are unclaimed spaces. They have an alternative market across the street that is more of a free-for-all. Sort of like Allentown and Allen West. They also have a large several story building right in the middle of it filled with funky shops, restaurants, etc. We wouldn't need all that, but it shows how the thing could expand if things went well. In the 70's,Portland was in worse shape than we are now. Not anymore. But that's another topic.

Newell,
How about the space now owned by the city where Ya-Ya used to be? Front on Main Street, back on Washington directly across from the M&T parking lot that could be used outdoors in the summer. Count me in if you meet for coffee!
Nan-C (and Jazzbo!)

art gypsy,

question? so the combined efforts of all your creative minds, the city, and Newell were unable to assist you in getting this off the ground...so why do you still think it is viable? Newell opened up this can with his badly worded misleading article. He should have stated that many individuals have put in many hours, and the project is tougher than originally believed! Why use misleading and misplaced statements like "it IRKS me that Buffalo doesn't have one of these"? That statement implies there is something wrong with Buffalo that we don't have this.

Do you have any idea of the vast difference in the disposable incomes possessed by individuals that live in Portland, NYC, and Washington DC??? The vast difference in active downtown populations and pedestrian foot traffic? You have proved my point for me- you are backing a project which has slim to no financial viability at this point, in this time, in this city. So why make this pathetic and poorly presented argument and present it to the city at large? Why so much as state that there is something wrong with Buffalonians that we don't have a market like this?

Why not be honest about what has been done to date, where the project stands, what the hurtles are, and what is being asked of people to make it happen? Again, that would be too pragmatic and might actually lead to some effective results. Nothing you have said proves you are anything but a whiny artist who thinks that it is someone elses'' fault that your craft is not commercially viable.

Reply when you have actually made some concrete progress towards making this a reality, and own the failings to date have been yours and your groups, and not the city of Buffalo and its residents.

I agree with backseat, why is there so much spin and so little honesty in public discussion in this city? Why should backseat be expected to know facts that should have been presented in the original post, but weren't? The post made it sound like this was a new idea in its infancy, not a tired horse that wont run. Maybe you should read your own tea leaves gypsy? Maybe he just saw through this flaccid post and called it for what it was, more hot air?

I've never been approached on starting a flea market before. And I've never attempted to start one. I also never knew that there were groups that had attempted to get a market off the ground. Does that make my post flawed? I can only hope that we succeed, and if we don't, then please don't burn me at the stake as you appear to be doing - just because I think that it's a shame that Buffalo doesn't have a flea market downtown. I see no reason why the market would not work. If you don't try, then how can you know? We started the Elmwood Festival of the Arts, and Buffalo Old Home Week, we will hopefully pull off the Step It Up rally, and now we're gonna start a flea market. backseatdriver, if you want to help out just send me an email.

For anyone else who may be interested in helping to research the flea market, we will be meeting this weekend TBA.

Actually, we discussed this with the councilmember during our meeting this evening and there is interest in removing some red tape - see what happens when partnerships are formed and idle criticism is relagated to the back door?

BTW - "disconnected" - great name - sure you're right!

I would love this if it occurred on regular city streets on a weekly basis. If it becomes a strong local tradition even winter should not be a problem. Chicago's Maxwell Street market runs right through winter. These types of markets do not depend on wealthy populations they depend on the fact that they offer something that can not be found anyplace else and the unpredictability of what you might come across. The large crowds they attract also becomes an attraction. The Buffalo area already has large flea markets in the country and in Clarence as already mentioned. There is no reason that one of these could not be tremendously successful in the city

Why the hostility? Why the inability to read what is clearly written? The city and Newell had nothing to do with our group's attempts last year to come up with a viable way to make our vision happen. I've never talked to Newell about it until today and we got no response from anyone in City Hall. We went with other plans when we realized the necessary community support was not forthcoming. If you have a specific question to ask me, ask it. Just stop this inane, "flaccid" criticism based on your own hyperbole and nothing else.

The"status" is that a dozen artists got together a year or so ago to try to come up with some innovative ways to expand our businesses. (Most of us, by the way, are doing quite well thanks.) But, as any successful business person will tell you, growth is important. I travel a lot and when I see the city markets in other places I desire to see that in my town.I think the markets are fun and they bring life to a city. Downtown sure could use some life and we wanted to be there. So I tried to make it happen in my own little way. No biggie. Had some meetings, talked to some agencies, bent the ears of some political people, contacted the big developers around about spaces, bounced the idea off contacts in the theater district and Buffalo Place, We gave it a good shot, but could take it no further.
Say what yu will about the economics of Buffalo, but I do a lot of art shows in lots of places and I make the most money here. You can't measure a city strictly by the ledgers. There is an appreciation here for the funky, the artful, the unusual. I think a market would be popular and profitable and I am thrilled that Newell wants to take on the challenge. I hope lots of you sign on to meet up and see what can be done.

All I am saying is that there is very little substance to these conversations. Perhaps I dont understand this medium. What is needed obviously is an attorney, preferably pro bono, a backer, and a council member - oh yeah and a large plot of land or continuous non-vehicular roadway! (despite the apparent blight and neglect of much of the downtown street scape, anyone holding a deed or lease is looking for top dollar or at least competitive market rates).

What we are NOT is NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, or Wash DC - and thank god for that! (I have been a vendor at the Chelsea flea market in NYC, and the vast majority of vendors travel from far outside the city, because they could not survive living in the city on what they make!) Any model based on comparison has dubious chance of success. So if anyone would like to see something like this as badly as I would, isn't it in all our best interests to make these conversations as relevant and practical as possible. Absent my 'criticism' there is very little said on the subject other than "all these other great and large American cities have these, why dont we? " Well sorry to rain on the parade, but a question was posed in the post and I am outlining why we dont have an out door market. You cant solve a problem until you acknowledge the challenges and can articulate them clearly. Why should critics be held to a higher standard of accountability than hapless cheerleaders?

Again, I would love to see a market like this, and it is precisely for that reason that I want to hear some concrete discussion of its viability. Is that too much to ask of this forum? I know most of the working artists and craftsman in Buffalo, and none of them is doing 'very well thank you'. They eke out a living at best and complain constantly about the challenges and lack of income potential. BE HONEST, and then we can have an honest - and more civil discussion. That includes discussing pros AND cons.

PS Steele,
The Clarance flea market charges around $25.00 for a space outdoors, more indoors, good luck finding a space in Buffalo where that is possible. Also no-one there claims to be tremendously successful - except perhaps Kelly Schultz, the vendors work very hard and basically get by. It is exactly phrases like 'tremendously successful' that get me going- define please "tremendously successful" and for whom? Certainly not for working artists and craftsman.

I invite you to join us as we work on this concept, backseat driver. I'm not sure how much more concrete info you need considering this is all still in the investigation stage. I can't speak for every art/craft seller, but most of us use more than just one avenue for sales. There are the shows, of course, but there is also wholesale, consignment, internet, gift shows...all sorts of venues. This would just be one more and it has the ability to be the most fun and laid back. I can't imagine too many folks making a living just selling at this sort of thing and I don't recall anyone saying that. I would love it here because I am always in favor of any idea that pumps life into the city.

One only need to travel 70 miles east to Rochester to see a great public market. I would go speak to the organizers of this market which, by the way, has been featured in numerous media outlets.

Newell-

I suggest you take a group of interested people with you to the Rochester Public Market and take a look around. Rochester has similar demographics and is even a bit smaller in size than Buffalo.

Hope all is going well. Over and out,

Tom Cooney

Two ideas...

1) The Clinton Market already has "flea" type activity in the summer months in addition to their farmers...they have the space and facilities...

2) The roof of the Broadway Market....a vastly unde-rutilized cool space...and is VISIBLE...

Newell and all those interested in starting a public market in Buffalo-

Check out the link by clicking on the red "Project for Public Spaces".. It is from a great site with the same name. It talks about the Rochester Public Market and why it works.

This could be a great way to start to think about what you want this public market to be.

Peace!

Tom Cooney

Backseat,

You comments are odd. On the one hand you chastise the conversation because it holds no concrete path to creating a new street market venue in Buffalo and yet your entire contribution is to say that it is not possible to do and no one should talk about doing it. You have choses your screen identity well.

Yes the Clarence market IS extremely successful by the measure of the huge crowds it attracts each week. Many years ago we set up a booth there for a few weekends to sell some of my grandmother's things after she died. It was a great fun time and we made thousands of dollars.

backseatdriver:

when do you plan on starting your "buffalo sinking" blog?

I stopped going to the Clearance Flea market because of the price of gas. It is such a long trip from the EV area for me.

I think a city market would be great, but does it have to be downtown? To draw people to where the market is (downtown) would be harder than putting the market where more people are. Like the Elmwood Villiage area. Are the shaded grounds of the Richardson complex a possiblity? I'd be worried that a downtown location would be filled with trouble making teens from the east and west side. It could really hurt the success of a market like this.
Or the city owned parking lot off Bryant St. near Elmwood is empty all weekend and is enclosed with fences and brick walls. It's within walking distance of thousands of residences and the new Cafe Aroma will be in the old Just Pasta building around the corner.
Just an idea.

DCU -

It's a Catch-22. You would want the market in the EV (where the people are), but the people won't be downtown (where the people aren't) unless there are things down there for them.

I guess I don't want to say "if you build it they will come", but a market study may very well indicate that they will.

What about the second level of that train terminal down behind hsbc arena.

Malooga:
Just one important question: why do you want to bring people downtown on a Sunday?

Retailers build stores at places like the Galleria Mall because there are people already there and other succefull stores. They don't try to create a new shopping district with the hopes that it will catch on.

Whatever happens, good luck! I think it would be a cool, unique idea, something that might attract people downtown because it exists nowhere else in WNY.

Note to Artgypsy and all,

Central Terminal just celebrated its tenth year of ownership by the Central Terminal Restoration Corporation. After years of stripping and flipping, it has enjoyed a decade of solid preservation progress. I imagine that CTRC would welcome an exploratory conversation about a flea or public market.

I second Mr. Cooney:

Go check out the Rochester Public Market. It's a combination farmer's market and flea market. It's got a really great urban feel to it, very crowded and not dominated by any demographic. Really and truly diverse. Think yelling fishmongers, and a guy going "bo-nana bo-nana one dolla!!" and blacks and whites and asians and hispanics, rich and poor, all crammed in shoulder to shoulder - super-crowded. I love that place.

It's open on Saturday mornings and Thursday mornings, as well as on some Sundays for special events (like perennial plants, or christmas decorations, or garage sale days).

It's run by the city, and they have permanent sheds. It's spurred private investment too, now there's a "market district" with flea market activity on adjacent streets and a recent loft/flea market project on Railroad St. Located in a tough neighborhood, too, north of downtown, not your average destination for culture visits from suburbanites.

It's totally worth a visit even if you're just a day-tripper.

If you're organizing something like this, call Jim Farr at Rochester Parks & Recreation, he's a great guy and I'm sure he's be happy to talk to you about all the gnarly details.

Good luck.

I envision something along the west side.... and the west side of the elmwood district. Use this market to expand the feel and attitude of the elmwood district, bring peopel to the west side. use it to show off the housing opportunities there, its a grass-rootsy area that fits the artist persona. we have the momentum being built off the garden walk and the new collaborative gardening market coming up. If you revitalize that area you will see more people moving into buffalo , buying up those houses at a bargain and fixing them up. neighborhoods will get better...and eventually we will get the elmwood feel spreading closer to the waterfront. Those neighborhoods can be healed up and built up.

It looks like - following Bass Pro's announcement that they still want to build but are abandoning the Aud - that the property I had in mind across Scott St. from the Aud) will now be unavailable. But, actually, the Aud would make for a cool two-story flea market kind of property. Think Quincy market-type stuff. But the cost to obtain and rehab the Aud would be ridiculous.

I think a lease agreement would be best for whatever property is deemed best for such a pursuit. Maybe the DLW would be nice.

Malooga:
You never answered my question.
WHY DO YOU WANT MORE PEOPLE DOWNTOWN ON A SUNDAY?
I guess you don't have a good answer!

Just because it will look pretty? don't you want it to be successfull?
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

in thinking more about the west side, there are areas like the park near dyouville and niagara. its close to the highway so its easy for suburbs to reach. Perhaps Dyouville might help us? Im sure they would like ot see revitalization continuing in that area. perhaps we could do soemthign special with the dyouville students, perhaps we could get binational atention and open it up to soem canadian artists right accross the peace bridge? i would think the binational organization would be interested in helping promote it. then we are aiming at regionalism , again, trying to use this artist market to revitalize buffalo.

Here's an idea...pull out those cardboard boxes sitting in the dark in Main Place Mall and put in a market. Foot traffic guaranteed as people head to the only draw in the sleepy and tired mall...the Food Court.

Bidwell Parkway would be an ideal spot for the market. The Elmwood Village and Delaware park area is chock full of artists, hipsters, and well-off middle aged people. The farmers market is a huge success there. You could even have your market on Saturday as well, since there is plenty of Bidwell to go around, and it would be automatic exposure for the market.

I love the Walden Super Flea because of the crazy things I can find (Swords, ugly racist t-shirts, ceramics, porn and smoking accesories) It's a wonderfully tacky place and I'm not sure Elmwood Villagers would tolerate it in their front yards.