Buffalorising has been redesigned.

In a city full of wonderful architectual gems, this is not one of them. It is nothing more than one huge obstacle towards the growth and rebirth of the waterfront. Let the "cranes" begin...

i'm far from being an extreme preservationist but i don't see why no one has any appreciation for the 1930's WPA facade on exchange street. i think its pretty cool and unique and it also represents an interesting period of time...the 70's expansion of it is hideous and should go but i really see some value in the original facade of the aud that remains.

Demo..the Aud?.Yes..The opening of prime waterfront land ripe for development can happen and the demo. can be done with state Bass Pro monies.This is a win-win for Buffalo thanks to Mayor Brown's suggestion to use already approved funds.True..state approval in needed ..it can be done..However,the stone facade of the Aud was the work of a important architect.QUESTION..Can the front arch be disassembled and stored.

I understand the building would be difficult and expensive to reuse. However, are there any architectural or engineering reasons we can not at least save the facade of the building? I think most would agree that the facade is what we love and remember. Can money be earmarked for its preservation? Are there logistic reasons it could not be incorporated into the plans for the area?

I have a lot of nice memories of the Aud- especially going there with my family to watch Canisius basketball games as a a kid- but if it's going to remain vacant for years and years, I'm not opposed to knocking it down. It's sad, yes, but I think it's probably time to move on. I'd rather not hold on to a vacant building that has sentimental value if we can build something useful in its place.

But is there any way to recycle the facade?

Demo the Aud, but keep the front facade and incorporate into new development or incorporate into the restoration of the Spaulding Exchange.

Perhaps a ceremonial "gateway" to the area?

Agreed. I think the only choice here is to knock it down.

It would be cool if they had a developer or tenant in mind. I would suggest consulting potential tenants or developers to see if they would be willing to incorporate the entranceway (shown above) into their design, like HealthNow did with the old Gas Works facade (although that leaves much to be desired).

But, I wouldn't let that be a hurdle to development. It doesn't sound like saving this is part of the plan anyway. As long as that thing is gone and there can be some almost immediate development on/near the waterfront, I'm on board.

A nice, 5-star high rise hotel with ground floor 5-star restaurant (like the Comfort Suites set-up, but nicer) and retail (multiple stores, like a small-scale shopping center) would seem like a good idea. Townhouse should be saved for elsewhere on the waterfront, but take advantage of the location by allowing visitors to the area (ones paying a king's ransom to stay there!) to take in the wonderful views of the City and soon-to-be developed waterfront.

Who knows how many potential development plans were scrapped because of the unwillingness to raze this eyesore?! Let's not let any others pass us by!

If the Aud is demo'd it would be great to save the facade to create a gateway to the waterfront or incorporated in a future building on that site. It could be Buffalo's pedestrian version of the Brandenburg gate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_Gate

Certainly, the bulk of the Aud is of little interest but I believe that the "style moderne" front entrance section should be preserved. It is the most interesting part of the structure which is the last major project of the E.B Green firm whose works represent a variety of architectural styles in Buffalo, each representative of the era in which is was built and stretching back to the beaux arts market arcade designed 50 years earlier.

Seems a shame to waste all of that stone though. Probably from local quarries. Maybe the Chinese would be interested in buying it. After all they have scads of money as 90% of the things we buy these days are made there.

How about knocking down the part of the 190 that runs in front of this as well. Thats the real Eyesore. You have these sketchy parking lots and such right along there.

If it has to go it has to go, but save me a seat in in the oranges.

Re: the seats.

Couldn't sale of the Aud seats be used to fund some of the demo work? With the prices that any type of Sabres merchandise is fetching these days, the City could raise themselves a pretty penny from those sales.

As long as this isn't a backhanded way of delivering a shovel ready site for a bass-pro big box....

Buffalo is not the only city that has had to deal with the dilemma of what to do with their old arena. Here is a rapid fire scorecard of some more notable cities and the fate of their grand old barns:

Toronto, Maple Leaf Gardens - Initially used for minor league hockey and special events after the Leafs left in 1999, now mothballed and debate for reuse is ongoing.

Boston, Boston Garden - Demolished in 1997 after replacement venue, now called TD Banknorth Garden, was erected literally a few feet away from the old place.

Chicago, Chicago Stadium - Demolished for parking in 1995

Detroit, Olympia - Demolished in 1986

Dallas, Reunion Arena - Shuttered since the Stars and Mavs moved across downtown to the American Airlines Center, numerous plans for reuse have faltered. Right on the edge of downtown, looks now that it will be demo'd.

Montreal, Montreal Forum - After Canadiens left in 1996, building gutted and retrofitted into multi purpose retail and entertainment center called "Le Forum Pepsi".

St;. Louis, St. Louis Arena a/k/a Checkerdome - Blues moved to their spiffy new downtown arena in 1994. Old venue demolished in 1999.

Winnipeg, Winnipeg Arena - No longer an NHL city (sadly), their gorgeous new MTS Centre in downtown opened in 2004. Winnipeg Arena, located in the inner 'burbs, was demolished in 2005 to expand parking for an adjacent shopping mall.

Vancouver, Pacific Coliseum -The Canucks might have moved out to their sexy new GM Place downtown, but the old Colsieum is still used by their WHL junior hockey team.

Los Angeles, Great Western Forum - The Kings and Lakers are long gone, but the building still stands in Inglewood next to Hollywood Park and is used for concerts and shows.

Atlanta, The Omni - Demolished and land used to construct the replacement venue, Phillips Arena as well as the breathtaking CNN World Headquarters.

Philadelphia, The Spectrum - Still standing, still open and part of the four venue "sports complex" in south Philly. The city's AHL team the Phantoms are the primary tenant.

*Whew* - I could go on but these are the biggies and gives you plenty to digest. Hope this is all informative.

I'm late to this discussion, did anyone ever talk about turning the Aud into a flea market, a fish market (like Pike Place Seattle), a flower market, or a farmer's market? A permanant artists market with the same type of vendors you might find at Allentown Art Festival? A hockey arena for one (or several) of the local colleges and/or high schools? Just a few thoughts. Like I said I'm probably way late in the game.

What happened to the intermodal terminal that was once scheduled to go into the front of the building? I though millions were earmarked for it at one time. What happened!? Seems like the front facade would be perfect statment for a new downtown train/light rail/bus station. Exchange St. Station is dismal and should be replaced. Plus a new intermodal facility would work well for commuter rail should Buffalo need it some time in the future.

Demo the building - save the facade

Its pretty simple to do right.

1)Save the facade. We don't build anything out of stone anymore since it is so pricy. Don't throw away expensive stuff that will never come back. You are basically giving the next building there a free high class, significant entrance. So what if the 190 is there? One day it may not be.

2)Knock the rest down. Its difficult to find a use for an old arena, especially in a smaller city as ours. And especially since the expansion for the Sabres made it a maze to get to the oranges. No way to heat/cool that place economically for a flea market/etc.

The scramble is on to get seats from the place!!!

Once its demolished I can imagine a nice new massive parking lot for many years for HSBC Arena... and then nice parking right in front of the new canal terminal and waterfront.

Demolish it! I'll take the first swing! There is no immediate need to retain the facade, unless you want to create a worthless wall like they have at the old war memorial stadium site. This place became a great place for local teenagers to impregnate other local teenagers, that is about all it is good for.

Is there anyway to tear-down and preserve the facade for future use? I know that they moved the London Bridge at one point, I couldn't imagine that the level of complexity or cost would be greater than that. Sell the pieces on the open market to preserve this 'historic icon of WPA architecture' someplace else.

Not that I believe him, but the city commissioner was quoted in the last year as saying that the cost of removing the seats would be more than they could recoup in a seat auction. I say bullshit...he just doesn't want to be bothered, but rest assured, he will probably grab some for himself and his friends prior to demolition.

Save the facade? Why? So everybody can bitch about how it is incorporated into a new build(Health Now ring a bell). Just knock the whole thing down. There is no historical value to it.

Knock down the part of the 190 in front of the Aud? Will you then accelerate and jump the missing section when traveling on that section of the 190?

In summary...The best opportunity for a quick redeveopment is to knock it down and clear the parcel. We already know about the effort made to retrofit it for a Bass Pro and how that was a miserable failue. Learn from past mistakes.

newideaguy- I think there are better places to put a city market / flea market than the Aud. Just my 2 cents. But you could throw that idea out to BRO for consideration, as they're organizing a committee to make the city market idea happen.

I really like the idea of using the facade as a gate, if its feasible. Could be a great way to keep the Buffalo architecture tradition alive even if the building gets torn down.

Why don't we build something first? It isn't as though we don't already have any available empty lots. This just seems to be another typical Buffalo development project:
Step 1.) Demo
Step 2.) "Hey, wait a minute...," we don't have any money to build or else we can't make up our minds what to build.

Get rid of ALL of this building ASAP so the future of Buffalo can happen.

The facade is worth keeping. Just as someone said above, we don't build things from stone anymore because of the materials cost. It's better than crushing it and throwing it on the shore of the Niagara river. I wonder if it would be economically feasible for the Sabres organization to move it and reassemble it incorporated into the HSBC facade somehow or rebuild it inside the arena somewhere in whole or in part. Sabres fans have a lot of affection for the memories they made in that building, and while most probably don't want to just see it mothballed and rotting, saving some of it (and a valuable part at that) would be a great sign of goodwill by the Sabres organization and would ultimately help them cash in on nostalgia. I would like to see part of it reconstructed on one of the multistory inside walls of the arena's vestibule where adults can show thier children what the aud looked like and tell them about when their parents took them to Sabres games.

As for the seats, someone should see who actually owns them, because something tells me, WE DO. If the city or the county owns the Aud, it actuallys means that WE own the seats, and that if we want them auctioned off, no matter how lazy the commishioner is, we can get them auctioned off, no matter how slight the profit margin.

downtown bolivar,

the funds for the train station that was supposed to go into the north side of the aud (while leaving the 'bowl' for future redevelopment) was snatched away at the request of the tony bag a' donuts administration and reprogrammed for a giant parking ramp. the small minded, backwards waste of time that bass pro turned out to be (has always been) cost us what could have been a downtown gem. now instead of $9 million in federal money to build a multi-modal access point and new (presentable) station, we'll have a $20 million surface parking lot. thanks guys!!!!!

anyone else's politicians beginning to make you feel like rick moranis in spaceballs (the tv version would say 'idiots! i'm surrounded by idiots!" but the film version would be more applicable here)?

derailed...the parking ramp scheduled to be built in the space where the Donovan bldg now exists will replace the parking lot currently in front of HSBC which is slated to be developed as part of the inner harbor plan and also to serve other parking needs of the inner harbor. People bitch about too many surface lots, so a large parking ramp is constructed. They don't like the parking ramp, so then they complain "why can't the parking be underground"? You can't win around here.

PS I've gone on record before, but this intermodal transportation center would be a huge waste of money, to bring together a subway system that was never completed and never will be, a train station that sees little traffic and a bus station that has a perfectly fine home where it is now.

Yeah keep the facade - because the way they incorporated the "old facade" of the Gasworks Building into the Health Now Building is just breathtaking.

It's time to le go of the AUD. I like the idea of the Sabres incorporating the design into SOMETHING else - but do let those stone walls hold up progress.

WE will all be dead before anything really happens.

Sad, so sad... and ya'll wonder why people leave WNY.

It's not only about jobs - it's about the lack of bold leadership and 2 or 3 preservationist with nothing better to do.

Ken -

Your take on the intermodal is wrong. The Empire line of Amtrak has seen an increase in traffic since 2003, although it's nowhere near air travel numbers. Still, the Buffalo-Depew station is laughably inadequate, as is the Exchange street station. The Maple Leaf line also goes through here on the way to Toronto from NYC. Greyhound ridership is also significant, and anyone who has had a layover in the Buffalo bus station will tell you that it's not fine. It's dirty, it is not positioned in a way to get people to use local amenities (food/drink, killing time with shopping, newstand). When I tell people at professional conventions that I'm from Buffalo I always get at least one person telling me that they feared for their life in the Buffalo bus station. It's ridiculous, they're three blocks from good restaurants and bars, but the bus station puts people on edge. Also, the subway. Enough of the "train to nowhere" bullsh*t. It has the highest light rail ridership for an American mid-size city. Yes, it is woefully incomplete, and it should and could be much better than it is. But that doesn't mean that it is useless, and it doesn't mean that a great station anchoring the system wouldn't help promote ridership in the future (expansion is inevitable... the people want it, it's just a matter of finding the politico that wants to take retroactive credit for it) and would be much better than dropping people off for Sabres games on a jerry-rigged patio.

Get a car rental in there and you have a sorely needed transportation hub in the heart of downtown.

Wow! What a bunch of pessimists! No wonder we have such a hard time getting anything ever accomplished around here. This attitude of gloom and doom does absolutely nothing for progressing Buffalo forward, so why don't you all just climb back into your den of solitude and save us all from the whining.

Now, that I have gotten that out of my system, save the facade, demo the rest. The facade can easily be accommodated into a new development, and because of the site, we really can't get the disappointing design that occurred at HealthNow.

umm, not quite sure what's going on in the mind of Let It Go. THIS is the reason people leave WNY? riiiight.... just like all those people are fleeing Toronto because Maple Leaf Gardens is still sitting unused....

anyway, I agree that knocking it down probably is the best way to go (echoing everyone's sentiments to keep the front facade), but I would literally pay $100 to get to walk around inside there once more. Go up and down the ramps (and find the one ramp that ends at a wall), climb up and down the steps in the oranges..... They could easily raise some money by having a Goodbye Aud party or something like it.

Edward St....I disagree on the merits of building the transportation center, but if you are so convinced that this is worthy of consideration why not contact the ECHDC folks or Brian Higgins and run this by them. Let me know what they think...IF they ever get back to you.

so
$19 million to demolish or
$40 million to renovate it

Does anyone EVER think about the costs of a new construction on the site? unless you build a wal-mart on the site almost anything half the size of the AUD is going to take more than 20 million to build.

So we spend almost 20 million to get an empty site that will probably sit there and need at least 25 or 30 million to build out to get back to the same scale and density the aud already offers.

sounds lame.... and OLD Buffalo thinking to me. We are going to spend 19 million to demolish something that big box retailer says is too expensive to use... thanks Byron brown for hiring wal-mart as our city planner...

While I agree that the Aud stands in the way of possible development (I’ll always wish I could have taken my kids to a hockey game there), I wish we could save the facade. I would hate to see the Aud facade on some mismatch building (like health now). Someone earlier suggested a gate way, which could be interesting. I think it would be wrong of us to categorically declare that the building has no value and should be leveled (facade included). How many buildings in Buffalo’s past were declared to have had no value and were leveled in the name of progress….yeah…. a lot (and the “progress” we got in return is now largely viewed as having been done in error). Don’t even begin to think I want the Aud to stay. Yes, I will miss it, in the way one misses a relation you have not seen in years when they die. I want the inner harbor development realized more than I want the Aud. Save the facade, move it if you have to.

i always liked the aud....such a shame to waste the building...i hope they give out the seats though to nostalgic fans!

I'm certain everyone here could think of a better use of $20 million to demolish a building surrounded by empty lots. Why hasn't the Webster Block across the street, still empty after fifty years and also owned by the city, suddenly contribute to Buffalo's future?

$20 million might get us a reconnected Erie Street from Main to the water. $20 million could be close to the cost of a new bridge to the Outer Harbor. $20 million could go towards a retrofit the DL&W for some purpose. $20 million could restore the Evans Slip, buried since the 1970s.

The land beneath the Aud is *not* worth $20 million. But you know what it's worth to the City? A significant take, probably around 20%, of the demolition costs directly to the city budget. Maybe THAT is why the Aud is being proposed for demolition, as was the Meyer Malting Plant or AM&A's if no one had stopped that.

For those of you who have some semblance of sentimentality, here's audio from the last minute of the last Sabres game every played in the Aud:

http://www.sabresalumni.com/2001/sounds/lastmin.ram

Save the Aud!

how do i get some seats??? i hope they sell them

I have to chime in and say:
- Save the facade: Great idea Edward Street: Placing the facade in the HSBC is possible and would be so cool. Between the Sabres/Galisano's generosity, and the sponsorship of others, the main portal could be moved. Use the rail tracks for passage!
....and...
- Only demo the rest of the Aud when a use is identified and contracted. Why is another surface lot needed when so many exist. Build on the vacant ones first. As others above have said, any worthwhile new construction on the site is going to take more than $20M. Use the $20M for streetscape enhancements on the fringe of the Canal District and up Main St. (especially Delevan down to Allen).

Aaron...see my earlier post on the seats. I don't think anything new has been stated on a seat sale since then.

Chris...If you spend the 20 million or so that it would cost to demo the Aud on something else, you then end up having a big abandoned bldg. sitting smack dab in the middle of the inner harbor which you are trying to develop into something special.

I'm sorry, were we talking about the AUD or the HO Grain Elevators? This all sounds so familiar!

You guys CRACK ME UP! You all say demo the Aud, but save the facade. HILARIOUS! They saved the facade for the new Heath Now HQ (aka Gasworks), and all anyone does is complain about how badly it was integrated into the new multi-million dollar private investment.

Demo that Aud, the facade and all, and create a brand new usable parcel that will become the centerpiece of the development of that area. I'd love to see a mixed use condo village of rowhouses and flats, with development of these properties subsidized with a Hope VI grant. As a developer, I would love to be a part of that. Let's create new architecture that we can proud of 70 years from now, so we can be able to say "what great 2010 architecture that is in Buffalo, what a great era'!!

Demolish the old Aud, the entire building. This idea of saving the Aud's architecturally drab facade is the most stupid, idiotic idea. Save the facade for what? Like the rest of old Memorial Auditorium it is just a plain, featureless wall of concrete and limestone with no style no ornament, absolutely nothing. Lets just rip down the entire deteriorated, ugly looking Aud and make way for new development at that prime downtown site. It is time to move on to bigger and better things.

I guess I'm missing something here. I've read a few dozen posts and Chris is the only one who's brought up the heart of the issue: There are no current development plans for this site. I understand that the Aud as it currently stands (with the exception of Exchange St.) is unsightly, but how in the world can the mayor and the other powers that be call for it's demolition when there is nothing planned to replace it? If an Ikea or other big box is suddenly inspired to come to the waterfront, they should go to Google maps and take a look at some of the large parcels available in the area. If there are serious talks with developers but one of the stumbling blocks is that eyesore of an Aud, the city can always put a fence with pretty posters, pictures or whatever around it in the meantime.

I wish I could agree about the DEMO, but see the Aud is still solid, yes it has its issues...and looks ugly as sin in its current state. There are many things that could be done with this massive structure, I mean who would have ever thought that New Era would ever convert an old Federal Reserve bank into the new HQ? Saving the facade seems a little too weird, like Buffalo needs to make anything harder than it already is we need to go around saving doorways and adding them to the new buildings...good on HealthNow, but its gotta stop at some point.

In the end, I see Buffalo being a better city by keeping the Aud, bot because I'm against developing the land, but because that building is a fine structure...we can't knock all the buildings down and wait to have the lots developed...it looks stupid and all the vacant lots keep an image so bad that half the buildings downtown cant get filled with workers as it is.

I would say make the Aud a multi-use facility, perhaps a nice concert hall for having live bands and a flea market or city market so that the people can enjoy a market from september to may as well...without freezing. There are ideas that can be put into play, perhaps lighting the building, cleaning the stone, adding some windows and making a skylight can all shine light on new ideas for use...I just get the idea that this lot will serve as nothing more than a parking lot or perhaps a parking ramp if the Aud is cleared...nothing will EVER stand there as mighty as the Aud.

then again, what happens if Bass Pro wants it? who knows.

I'm with the no-demo group. The idea that the presence of the Aud is holding anything back in the way of development is foolish. The Webster block has sat there for years as a parking lot, and it's arguably a much better site for development.

Why would we knock down something that is unique and would be prohibitively expensive to build today so we can get a shovel ready site, somethat that part of town is full of. If there is ever actual interest in that site by a real developer (not the very rich friend of a very Rich Floridian) and they can't make the Aud work, then let's consider it, but why spend the money now to get another parking lot.

Very shortsighted of Brian and Byron.

If we want to make progress on the waterfront, we should tear down the Waterfront Apartments. These eyesores detract from the waterfront and make it look like we built our projects on what could be the most desirable real estate in the area. Take out the whole mess from the Marina to the Atrium and start over with a decent plan. For most of you that means "Mixed Use Development".

BTW, if these apartments are occupied, why doesn't anyone include these residents in articles about the new urban dwellers? I am sure that these people have been living in their apartments longer than there have been trendy lofts in the city. Are they not good enough for mention in this forum?

I still think that we should demolish these apartments, the Aud, the Donovan Building, the Skyway, most of the grain elevators, and the Pier.

tjh -
You are exactly right! This could be the most valuable property in the region. Offer big time developers a crack at someting very unique with a clean slate and plenty of space. This should be done right with a completly new and fresh idea.

we can't demolish the Aud - how are we going to demolish large apartment buidings.? Not to mention, what are we to do with the low income residents?

I want to see the Aud go too, but whats the use in spending 19 mill with no plans for the site. We will probably end up with more parking.

Save the money and pave the streets.....

Let's see: new flea market being organized for downtown + empty, clear-span space with truck docks that can house lots and lots of booths and shoppers and goods of all sizes, sitting right on Metro Rail. This looks like a no-brainer adaptive reuse!

Does anyone in the pro-demo camp remember who Memorial Aud is memorializing? Soldiers who lost their lives in WWI. What does it say about us that we're clamoring to trash their memorial? They're all dead now so who cares? Well, so are all of our Civil War veterans and we aren't tearing down the Soldiers & Sailors monument in Lafayette Square.

Haven't we learned our lesson yet? If there are no market pressures to demolish and replace--no private buyers lining up to take it down and build somerthing better without public subsidy, then mothball it for a better day or a better idea. If "shovel ready sites" were any sort of lure, we'd have the most happening city in the Northeast.

Other lesson we fail to learn, as illustrated by our soon-to-be-reused grain elevators:architectural obsolescence is usually temporary.

how much does the AUD cost to keep mothballed each year? in terms of 'upkeep' lost tax revenues etc etc

also the $40 million renovation cost seems far far too small for what the real costs would be... i recently was involved in an asbestos removal project on a small science building built in 1941... it was probably the easiet abatement possible since the crews did not have to worry about saving any of the interior- it was all going to be demolished eventually anyway... the costs still ended up over $1 million dollars....

this building had no HVAC system and was an entirely concrete structure...it was a simple remediation by most standards and it still was very expensive...

i can't imagine that a remediation of the AUD which is exponentially more complex and many times larger wouldn't use up at least that same $19 million...

and that isn't even considering any number of other nasty stuff you may run into like CFCs in the cooling system maybe some mercury someplace? who knows what all could be in there....

Architorture, All of which expense will have to be dealt with for demo, and essentially wasted, because you'll have nothing but a parking lot in return. If Albany has money to spend, let's remediate the heck out of the place and leave it up a shell until a developer comes along who has a real plan for it or the site. If it has to knocked down at that point it shouldn't take long, because all the bad stuff will be gone.

urbis makes a good point about the veterans (heros) of WWi and this Aud, some things are memorials and just add to the culture.

I still say rehab over demo...atleast we can't take a risk of ending up with an ugly building if we keep the Aud. What are the possibilities of making it....the....Buffalo Convention Center?

SOLID IDEA

I'm glad that someone brought up the point that the building is a memorial... strip it down to nothing and sell it to a developer

OMG, when will Buffalo Rising just get rid of the Comment box and make this site more positive with out all the typical negative comments (most not making any scense what so ever) from the same 10 people who want to bicker back and forth about the same issues in every freakin story. I enjoy the posts, but the comments are getting tired and sometimes ruin the whole experience of coming into this site.

sometimes ideas are made better when someone disagrees...so you don't agree or do agree, its nice to express an opinion about these topics and bring new ideas to the table.

BRO gets alot of the information it shares from people who participate here...so respect that. PLEASE.

Major convention center, each level vendors areas could accommodate display spaces. Open span, allows almost any exhibition possibility and entertainment potential. The current convention center is small, limited, has poor access to parking and is nondescript. High school, college, semipro , and minor league sports attractions would find it's use a valuable asset. By the way, that's already been demonstrated. Having two indoor arenas downtown in close proximity might give Buffalo a step up on regional and national events ( multi event scheduling simultaneously) Olympic style presentations. What the hell --- good dream though.

Are you there god? It's us, Buffalo... do you remember us? I know that so many of us have left that it must be hard to keep track, but I am sure that you are up to the task. :-) Anyway, I know we don't ask for much, but being that we made a movie about you and all, we figured it couldn't hurt. So here goes, could you please bring us back to 1955? We were really popular back then, people enjoyed our city, we had cool architecture, booming industries, and people were pretty well off. We are trying out best to hold on to that, but I am not sure that we can do that much longer. There are so few of us who haven't left the area, and those who haven't have moved to the suburbs. Please help them to see the error in their ways by bringing us back the way it was. We will hold on to these shrines of our once great city until that day comes. I pray that it happens soon!

Your friend, Margaret

Seeing that it is a memorial to our veterans, couldn’t some of the demolition costs be subsidized by the Defense Dept? Their budget seems to be pretty fat.

The comments are what make this blog worth reading. I am not sure which was I lean because people are making excellent points for both keeping it up/tearing it down.

Having traveled to several major cities, there are several examples where the incorporation of the facades of old buildings that had been demolished have been incoproated into new construction.

Wasn't "War Memorial Stadium " a memorial? Where is that stadium? Is it still honoring our war veterans?

it is still kinda there...kinda.

green jello...I think the defense budget is in place to take care of the living troops and keeping the enemy overseas and not hitting places like Washington DC and NYC...just a thought.

Comparing knocking down the Aud because it is named Memorial Auditorium with knocking down the veterans MONUMENT at Lafayette square is as big of a reach as you can make. The Aud is not a monument. It is a crappy old building that is falling apart. What business is going to want to setup shop with this UGLY box across the street.

Have any of you taken a walk around the Aud recently? I did this summer and it is a disgrace. The sidewalks are crumbling, the boarded up doors look like crap and in general it is an EYESORE. Knock it down ASAP and don't look back.

If the ECHDC and Brian Higgins back up their words, it won't be a vacant parcel for long.

The AUD is a testament to how well we treat our veterans! Look at the wonderful job we did for the brave men and women who died in Vietnam and Iraq. We are more concerned about individual hockey and football seasons than we are for our armed forces. It is a shame that our fathers are remembered and recognized through this ugly yellow building.

Let's find some veterans and see if they'd be insulted if the Aud was torn down, I doubt they would be. I'm sure they'd understand.

As for everyone saying, the Aud should be left there and re-used. Havn't we been waiting for that to happen for the past 11 years now and NOTHING has come along to possibly go in there? It's time to take it down and have an empty lot that someone could possibly be interested in building something.

*** Veteran Here….
From a memorial standpoint; if the Aud were the only local monument to our Veterans, were grand in stature, or were regularly adored as such, I would be first in line to stop it from coming down (and I would too).
I have always looked at it as a memorial in name only. We have a number of things around here with “Memorial” in their name, and few are very representative of those things memorialized.
Here is the hook…. It is the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. It was a huge public works project. Note the name, it is not a war or veterans memorial…. It is a Memorial to and for BUFFALO, the city and its people.

Sell the seats.....and save Orange, section 32, row 1, seat 1 for me! --I sat there for MayDay!

So, as a Vet, nope don't care, take it down.
But to all of you.... you proud masses of the City of Buffalo, beaming with defensive pride....where do YOU stand?
I'd have you take sides, house that borne countless memories or dirt lot, but we've seen it before... you'll all pick a dirt lot, hedging on the hopes future lies.
(Every one should read "the giving tree", you'll get it)

I want to return to some of the things I said yesterday.

1. Does anyone else think that Byron's new interest in tearing down the Aud is a backdoor way of delivering a shovel ready site for Bass Pro to install an unimpressive big box store tragically right smack next to our hard-won historic canal district? The strange fluctuations in the Bass Pro deal are just that... strange. One minute we're calling the deal off, the next we're giving a 30 day ultimatum, and now we're back in talks with them to deliver a new parcel in the historic district. One thing seems clear to me, Bass Pro doesn't want the Aud, but they don't want to abandon the project someone adjacent to Lake Erie. It seems to me that they don't want to do the work in the Aud and for the city that would warrant all of the public subsidies (turning the Aud into a retail destination and being the main tenant that would help reposition a transit center in the building as well). Given the historical weakness of our representatives when dealing with business, I can't help but think that the demolition of the Aud is a capitulation to Bass Pro and a selling out of a public asset and the public trust (our 20 mil) in return for something that won't help the public at all, except to increase the efficiency with which we can buy bait and tackle. A refurbishment of the Aud as a transit and retail destination would be a true public benefit, warranting public dollars, but demolishing an important building, regardless its flaws, to make way for a big box is not progress, and it is not acting in the public interest. It is precisely acting in the private interests of Bass Pro and misguided politicos who think delivering any kind of change for changes sake will help their career (see Tony Masiello).

2, In the same vein re: the seats, I tried to call our attention back to our ownership of that building. This morning, it occured to me that since hand-picked insider coalitions have not been able to deliver anything in the aud to the public in 10 years, and since they're now basically selling us out, we should really recall our ownership of the asset and take back the process of using it. I'm calling for a citizen-coalition to arrange for the repurposing of the Aud --- backed, but not run, by the officials who represent the citizens. Citizen-coalitions have a track record of delivering projects and amenities that actually deliver for the public and contribute to private development without selling out the public in the process (like the Erie Canal harbor fight, among others). I fully expect the citizen-coalition now at work on the downtown market/bazaar to deliver a public amentity which also generates private business --- and to do so quicker than insider govt/business deals could do and with greater results.

Basically, the powers that be had their chance to do something and they're on the verge of selling our asset out from under us and we're going to lose. We're only going to realize how much we've lost in 20 years when we're staring at an empty big box store on the waterfront. Let's not Bendersonize the waterfront. Let's take back our belongings, our money, and figure out what to do with it ourselves instead of hoping someone else will take care of it for us --- and getting depressed when they inevitably come up short. Start the Citizen Coalition for the Refitting of the Memorial Auditorium.

3. re: the facade. Yesterday I commented that the facade should be saved in whatever demolition plans happen. Today I'm saying I've been convinced by those commenters who argued that demolishing the aud at the cost of 20 million of our tax dollars for no clear plan (or no plan made public --- like delivering the site for a benderson box) is insane. Let's use the building the way we want to use it --- not the way someone who supposedly acts on our behalf tells us we're allowed to use it. In any event, I still hold that the facade is important and we deserve better than to have our expensive architectural stone sold to a demolition company (who will turn around and sell it at a profit) or to have it crushed into pebble for highway projects.

We own the government. We own public buildings. We own the streets. Since the 80s we've been encouraged to think otherwise, and we're living in the result.

The aud is owned by the City, which has not spent anything to care for it. The asbestos abatement costs will be incredible whether reused or demo'd. There have been floods in the basement and without heat mold is now a major problem. Think about the internal configuration of the building and its hard to imagine an economically feasible re-use that's not of an entertainment-venue nature, unless huge investments in reconfiguration are made.
Won't give you two cents for the facade, even though the mass of the place is impressive. The gasworks fiasco shows what can happen when such reclamations are forced on developers (much as I wish a compatible design for that facade had been used).
While an intermodal center would have been a great use of the space, as the location is very good, other than the airport we seem to be quite inept at public transportation projects 'round here (when was the last time the NFTA accomplished anything?) so maybe doing nothing is preferable.

1) Was Bass Pro ever pushed to the second story of the NFTA train garage? Its right on the water and a very unique building. They could build out onto the water even for boats etc. Since it was designed to hold trains, they could even drive RV's up there.

2) Lets level every building down there. They are holding us from having Transit and Maple right on the water! The tourism board can then advertise us as the "Biggest Shovel Ready Site in America" ! Think of the developers that will come running. We have been demoing for empty lots for 50+ years. What has it gotten us? and some how it is the fault of people that actually want to save some things of value?

3) Just becasue Health Now gave two-shits for incorporating the gasworks facade, does not mean that there is not an architectural firm out there that could do it right. Maybe we should just ship them to UB North Campus like the columns from the former Federal Reserve building on Main and Swan Streets. It would double that campus' noteable pieces of architecture to 2.

Speaking of which:
http://wnyheritagepress.org/photosofweek/federal_reserve/federal_reserve.htm
Isn't great that we have had a shovel ready site there almost 50 years now. Good thing the preservastionists didn't get in the way! I can smell a new build there any decade now!

Edward Street- you also commented earlier on the benefits of a new transportation center, and I couldn't agree with what you said more. BUFFALO NEEDS AN ATTRACTIVE, REASONABLY SIZED RAIL STATION DOWNTOWN. It doesnt have to be Grand Central or Union Station, but it needs to be nice, and highly visible to the public. People do take the train from Buffalo to other cities. However, it is true that we could use more rail traffic, especially trains that run to nyc more frequently. If we build a nice station downtown, then it will attract development nearby and put Buffalo on the radar for more rail traffic.

By the way, Ken, your entitled to your opinion, but lose the negative tone. Its painfully annoying to read your comments when your constantly criticizing people, organizations, and buildings. You don't have to be attracted to the Aud, but calling it a crappy old building is wrong when many people feel otherwise about the structure and when it holds so much sentimental value for many Buffalonians.

Jim...Just because my opinion doesn't agree with yours, doesn't mean my posts have a negative tone. It just means we don't agree. So please don't be CONDESCENDING by telling me to "lose the negative tone".

The inner harbor & outer harbor development are very interesting to me(after all the years of inactivity) and therefore when people talk about the virtues of leaving a big old box(the aud) smack dab in the middle of it, I have strong opinions on it.

In summary...if you don't like my postings on here, feel free to skip by them. Don't lose any sleep over it. After all, this site is a mechanism for people to express there thoughts, not just ones that you approve of.

PS I am a big supporter of Bass Pro. How come I don't see you telling people to lose the negative tone when it comes to Bass Pro or any number of other things that people are critical of?

Leaving the Aud in place and redeveloping it would be great. It is okay if it sits vacant for the next 30 years because we can still look at it and think about all the great times we had. I wouldn't be able to remember anything about the Aud,if it wasn't there anymore!!!

How's that Jim? Am I doing better now? Your approval of my posts really means a lot to me, so please let me know how I am doing.

Jim / Edward St.,

I've had similar thoughts. I picture a concourse which has an area in the middle the size of the old ice surface. In there would be statues of athletes in the same areas where a significant event occured. You could have certain athletes for the Sabres and Braves (Don't forget the Bandits and Stallions!) with a plaque or small video beside them to tell a visitor what happened there.
The Gold bleachers would have to be removed to allow corridors around this area. But if the Red and Blue seats were removed (or at least most of them) this could be one of the most interesting indoor gathering spaces anywhere. I picture the stepped concrete that would remain in the same way I would the steps of the Met in New York or any other great gathering place around the world. People could gather to eat lunch there, people-watch or surf the net. Perhaps some of the Oranges could be saved as seats for charter school classes or a school for UB. Banners (electronic?) could hang from the trusses as calendars showing what's going on for visitors from Toronto, NY etc.
To heck with the seats. I want some of those beautiful sound-absorbing cylinders!

Ken, I do not mean to be condescending, and I realize that it seemed that way in my post. I should have addressed the issue that I meant to address, which is your idea that Buffalo should not build an intermodal transportation center because we have a subpar transportation system and always will. I think there's potential to drastically improve our transportation system, and a new transportation center would be a major step in that direction. Theres no reason to believe that a new transportation center wouldn't be beneficial to downtown.

Also, the reason I mentioned your criticism is that is sounded a lot like the people who (as you mentioned earlier, and rightfully so) complain about everything- it seems like you just can't win when nothings ever good enough for them.

The City ALWAYS intended to demolish the Aud, but used "future reuse" as an excuse to abandon it (remember: it had just gotten millions in City funds for remodelling) and build the Hot-Sauce-Bleu-Cheese hockey barn.

$21million sounds like an outrage to smash this thing. How about $5million for demo and $16million for City trees? (don't hold your breath)

Both arguments are interesting.

If its decided to keep the Aud, then why not emulate the Ellicott Square Building. Replace the roof of the Aud with skylights and put large footprint offices around the periphery. Perhaps it could even include the Great Lakes Museum.

If its decided to demolish the aud then we can extend the Erie Canal Wharf further into the city even though it remains unknown as to the viability of many of the inhabitants of 2-3-4 story wharf buildings.

I wanted to add another alternative that other people have been proposing and which I agree should be considered.

Convert the Aud to the new Buffalo Convention Center.
-its connected to the Light Rail and the downtown hotels
-it has 230,000 sqft which could easily be doubled to 460,000 by adding a 2nd floor putting Buffalo in league with cities like Pittsburgh
-the roof could have glass skylights added for natural lighting emulating the Ellicott Complex
-a 3rd floor could be added for offices and/or conference rooms

FINAL POINT, WITH BUFFALO AND ERIE COUNTIES FISCAL PROBLEMS WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD A NEW CONVENTION CENTER AND ALBANY CERTAINLY WILL NOT GIVE US MONEY IF WE CANT PUT FORWARD MATCHING FUNDS.

HOWEVER, MONEY WAS ALREADY ALLOCATED FOR ABATEMENT (WHICH HAS TO BE DONE EVEN IF DEMOLISHED) AND GUTTING FOR BASS PRO SO WE COULD HAVE AN INTACT SHELL TO BUILD A CONVENTION CENTER.

ITS WORTH CONSIDERING...AND I THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA.