Buffalorising has been redesigned.

As others have said, Central Terminal would make a great rail station.

How about:

Offices
Shops
Apartments
Brewery
Light manufacturing
Hotel
Meeting rooms
Cafes

With a gazillion square feet, it can be a remarkable mixed use facility. IIt can almost be all things to all people.

I do think with the potential of the LR extension to the Airport this site will be a key station for east side residents... but until that happens (not holding breath but we still should never rule it out) it is such an interesting space.

Events seem to be doing really well there and only help to change the perception of the area and building so it should be able to regionally draw people to have fun and experience an area most have long forgotten about and written off as dead.

I like the idea of a brewery but thats is probably my fascination with beer but with the rail access it could be a decent option for anything that deals with long distance intercity transportation.

First off, Extend the LRRT to the airport, with a station at central terminal, immediately increasing it's accessibility, then transform it into a mixed use, apartment/ condo, office, hotel and retail complex.
The main concourse would make a great retail space, the tower great hotel/residential and the large 4 story wing would make great office space. provide shuttle service to broadway market and you have a great revival of one of Buffalo's greatest treasures.

In order to make this space work its accessibility needs to be addressed. A direct off ramp from the I190 needs to be put in, via the rail road right of way.

I'd be interested to hear the responses from Mike Miller, Russ Pawlak, and other members of the CTRC. Perhaps Mike will update his blog with news from the tour he gave Bashar.

People have been talking about the light rail extension since I was in elementary school... we can't go about planning for it when it may not happen (or may not happen for another two decades.) Sure, let's keep the dream alive, but we can't keep space in that beautiful building empty in the hopes that NFTA will suddenly see the light.

I came to a realization yesterday... we've become the "scary desperate chick" of cities. Like the gal who talks marriage and kids on the second date, the moment any company or developer pays us the slightest bit of attention it becomes time for the crazy expectations... talking about companies that move here suddenly renaming our football stadium and asking real estate developers to work on extending our subway system!

Realistically, it's a building in a not entirely desirable area. It's awesome for events, but are people going to hang out there on a regular basis for shopping and the like?
It seems like it could be a great all-in-one convention and conference center, though. Maybe some hotel rooms in the tower of the main building, eateries ranging from casual to high end in the outbuildings, and keep on keepin on with what's recaptured the public interest about the terminal. Space for large scale events, like the brew fest, but maybe put in some smaller rooms for meetings and the like.
I can totally see companies loving the idea of having large-scale events at a facility where the attendees won't have to leave the complex to go to their hotels or eat. It would help with one of the bigger deterrents we have towards out of town guests- by letting people bypass some of our lovely winter weather.

I don't know, I can also see schools loving the idea of having proms there, or people using the space for wedding receptions. It's become an unofficial second convention center, why not work to make it a bit more official and market to that audience.

It could function as a small, non-civic convention center, but it could never be, in my mind, Buffalo's only convention center (because of small size compared to other national convention centers, distance from other hotels, distance from city's entertainment/food mainstays). But it could certainly function as a self contained center with its own hotel in the tower, meeting rooms, and main floor space. It would also serve well for big events, proms, weddings, etc. Schools used to hold proms there in fact. It's got great parking and drop off/turn around for limos etc.

My personal greatest hope for the space is for part of it to return to use in transportation. As many have said... we need to be using the existing right of ways to connect the Main St Metro Rail to the airport. I know it's not Bashar's job to get involved in civil projects, but maybe if he bought the Central Terminal for whatever use, he could negotiate with the city to bolster the investment by making an important and desperately needed public transit line pass through with a grand station at the terminal. I listened to his talk and Bashar seems very interested in getting Buffalonians to turn their opinions around of what they have so that they can project that love to outsiders. With the clout and money that he has, I bet Bashar could negotiate for a public/private plan to make it work, and I don't think he would automatically think it was "charity" for Buffalo, but rather increasing the potential value of his property through greater infrastructure, but also greater "people infrastructure."

In any case, Bashar, thanks for being in Buffalo. I hope we can have a beer together someday.

wow that last idea is a very good one. I'm really not sure of its size but it could become like the Hyatt downtown, combining hotel rooms and space for events like proms or benefits. I don't see it as having any value as a retail space because of its location. I also laugh at people who believe that the light rail will be extended in this area. The first priority for a light rail would be an extension to UB North.

I also love the analogy of Buffalo as the "scary desperate chick." Very nice.

Every year, I go to the Broadway Market around Easter time and think of the better markets in Cleveland and Baltimore. Just a quick thought, but what if the Central Terminal became the new main market for the city? This way, we could upgrade to a better market, and aid that neighborhood around the terminal.

Exciting News! the Terminal is hands down one of Buffalo's most beautiful buildings,A convention center,apartments,restaurants ,stores,There is room for everything and I cant think of a better place to use.

I'm speaking as a resident of the immediate area of the BCT. Immediate as in... 125 feet from it!

I've lived her for almost 14 years now. I look at this building on a daily basis. For many years, I have dreamed about what it could become.

I can see it as becoming an official convention center. In effect, it already has become that. This past summer was amazing. All the work, sweat, tears and love that gets poured into the area by the CTRC was recognized by not only the residents around here, but the 1000's of people who flocked to it during the many events. Having the large scale events at the Terminal REALLY helps the ego of this community!

I can see restaurants and shopping areas open up. I can see banquet facilities set up. I can even see a small college campus being placed there. I can see the existing businesses in the area thrive! I can see light rail anchoring the Terminal to downtown Buffalo. It's truly a building well suited for mixed use.

I've always been called a dreamer when it comes to the Terminal. I do know, however, that I'm not the only one who feels this way. The community surrounding the Terminal is a tight knit, diverse community. Our children grew up together. We have all talked about this building, and are all in love with it. Our children, nearly grown now, all talk about it with the same passion we have.

I've noticed that people have some doubt about "hanging out here on a regular basis" as well as "visiting the Broadway Market only at Easter". You'd be surprised at how great this neighborhood is! I am not forced to live here, I do it because I love it! Many, MANY of the people around here have the means to move to other areas, but they don't because they LOVE IT. The market is open year round, we shop there. We play with our kids on the grassy fields of the terminal. We walk our dogs here. We ride our bikes and rollerblade. This area is truly amazing, but maybe you have to experience it to see that! :) In fact, I'm trying to find a friend an apartment around here... It's not easy!

Drive down Newton Street one day during the summer... You'll see a true community.

Something that capitolizes on the grandness rather than partitions it off and obliterates it. An "event" space makes sense but, one that has dual-purpose, somehow. Hmmmmm… a museum that also books events. Here's a wild shot that would somehow pay homage to a significant aspect of Buffalo (and the East Side's) heritage… a jazz concert hall (please keep ticket prices reasonable, like "old Tralf" used to do) along with a melting-pot Buffalo history-museum. There could be re-inactment events, interactive displays, workshops on geneology research, long-lost traditional stuff like "finishing school" workshops for teens. Just a few ideas on the concept.

I would think that CTRC would also have a wealth of insight as to what would work within the physical constraints of the building and it's legacy. Good luck.

A convention center should be downtown, not in the middle of the ghetto. So people come from out of town for conventions and leave saying Buffalo is worse than Detroit. Great. Being on the East side I don't see ANY viable use for the building other than a museum.

I think the CT should always have a rail or train component. That being said, it is simply to large to be just a station.

When I look at this area on a map, I see potential for a "mid-town" campus. The area I am thinking of is East of Filmore Ave, West of Bailey Ave, North of Seneca and South of Broadway.

First step is to clear or bury all of the rail lines in the area. Next is to move the Broadway market to water.

After that, clear the land south of the terminal. Keep only the buildings that provide any architectural significance or flavor to the community. This would create a large plot for several corporate office parks. Add in some mid-rise offices (under 5 stories) and some rental complexes. This would allow the city to compete with areas of Amherst for specific types of development. Not to take what is in Amherst but to bring in NEW business like that found in Amherst. Make the CT the centerpiece in the complex. Have light rail run down the center of this complex connecting downtown with the airport. You can also run a second line, north and south along bailey to connect the main street line with the 1st ward and outer harbor. Remember the lines are already there! Directly connecting to the CT could be a hotel with meeting center for small conventions. Even offering a school like Hilbert, Trocaire College, D'Youville or Damen to relocate to the city. All have campuses that provide no emotion. The ability to be located near mass transit and a new development could become an advantage and catalyst.

North of the terminal, rehab the housing or tear it down. For those who own and live in the housing, provide relocation assistance for them to be the first tenants in some of the new housing. For those who rent in the area, provide some new, mixed income housing in the area. For those who own but do not live in or maintain the property, use ED to take the property at market value today. NOTHING MORE!! Build street hugging mixed use property along the main roads. Allow for suburban type of single family housing to be built. Even if it is a small gated community. BRING IN BROWNSTONES. Make town homes in the community the main course not the Buffalo double. Make a parkway connecting MLK park to the CT via Sweet St. Clear all of the housing on both sides of sweet and build distinctive single family homes. Convert the current Broadway Market to a park and community center. Allow enough land for a suburban type school campus, where there is enough room for an elementary, middle and high school with athletic fields and park space. Bring over one of the charter schools to this new campus.

As Mr. Issa talked about his UK projects, he referred to a 'master plan' that the local government in Manchester did for some of the areas he built in. If i heard correctly, there were other developers involved as well, and some amount of public funds.

Seems to me that solving the Central Terminal challenge would also require thinking a bit about the whole area - would be a way to address the rail linkage issues other have raised too. I imagine the City is probably already a pretty big property owner in the area... could this be a place for us all to work on a Master Plan and use Mr. Issa's experience as well as invite him to develop some of it?

If not here, is there a better area? From Artspace to and around MLK Park, perhaps? or the east side of Main between Hertel and the 198?

Appologies if any of you read this in the previous CT posting, but since no comments followed I figured it could use another go around!

As far as the intermodal use, I'm actually writing my master's thesis on Federal Transportation Funding as a tool for historic preservation and adaptive reuse. There is federal money that could be used on the building should it be included in an intermodal transportation system. Once again we come to the the region's lack of leadership and vision, the NFTA, city, county and suburbs would actually have to agree on creating the network. If these federal funds were involved in the rehabiliation, it would have to meet the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Rehabiliation and would be historically accurate.

Adaptive Reuse as a community building entity.

Take the concourse and offices around it and create OJT classrooms with the cocktail lounge used as a daycare. The daycare would service the women and children who have single mom and kids apartments converted from the offices in the main building. The moms would attend education and vocation training in the OJT classrooms around the concourse while the kids would have a daycare center and after school programs in the old cocktail lounge area.

The rail express buildiing could house single men that could also take advantage of the retraining and life rebuilding classes in the main terminal/concourse area.

Additional funding could come from NYS and Federal Government programs that are slated for transitional housing.

In this fashion, we provide remedial services along with transitional housing.

There's a lot more to it, but this just gives an overview of how we can provide necessary services to those who need them and are willing to rebuild their lives.

In addition, the expansion of the light rail system would also offer transportation assistance for those "graduates" from the program for a six-month basis of outplacement/jobs so they can become self-sustainable and have the cash-flow and education to live outside the program.

Sorry, forgot the additional upside.

These graduates could also become new homeowners in an area ripe for redevelopment of the surrounding neighborhoods.

a light rail will never expand to the CT as long as most people here are alive.

I'm so excited that Mr. Issa is showing an interest in bringing one of my favorite buildings back to life!!!
Here's my suggestion:
Central Terminal should return to having a rail component, including light rail and Amtrak. Imagine a real station to welome Buffalonians and visitors alike, rather than the pathetic excuses downtown and in Depew. From CT, there are existing rail beds that could be used for relatively simple light rail expansion to the following areas:
Belt Line(around inner city)
Tonawandas to Niagara Falls
Tonawandas to Lockport
Cheektowaga/Airport
Lancaster, Alden, etc
West Seneca, East Aurora, Holland, etc
Orchard Park, Colden, Springville, etc
Lackawanna, Hamburg, Eden, N. Collins, Collins, Gowanda, etc
Along Lake Erie to Angola, etc
The only places that aren't easily served are Amherst, Clarence, and Akron, because those lines were already converted to trails.

Use as a train station would ensure a steady stream of people, who could patronize new restaurants and shops in the concourse. Some arts uses, such as a gallery, performing arts stage, jazz club, etc could be incorporated into the design.
Put a hotel in the tower (with the top floor reserved for an observation area) and offices in the mail & baggage building. Lofts in the nearby RCA building would be a good idea, too.
To ensure constant security, a small police substation should be put in the terminal.
Also, the surrounding neighborhood needs to be spruced up a bit, so that people aren't afraid to come to the CT.
Hopefully a revitalized CT could enable that area of the East Side to become more popular again, as a place to live, work , and play.

"spruced up a bit"

It's gonna take alot more than "sprucing up"

we've become the "scary desperate chick" of cities. Like the gal who talks marriage and kids on the second date, the moment any company or developer pays us the slightest bit of attention it becomes time for the crazy expectations... talking about companies that move here suddenly renaming our football stadium and asking real estate developers to work on extending our subway system!

Kelly, you're so right. That's a great analogy for what many people here look for - to be saved somehow instead of honestly facing our flaws and making real changes to improve from within - in our area's case to improve our business environment such that many more businesses can earn large profits here and create good jobs.

It's so telling how the decision of Labatts putting fewer than two dozen marketing people here was taken as such an amazing victory. In so many other cities our size that would've been a single sentence note on the last page of the business section. The only other cities I can image having a reaction as happened here are also in upstate NY - go figure. BTW, I'm not mocking people for enjoying positive news, but so much getting carried away just shows the deep scary despiration as you said.

If the CT or Richardson complex, DL terminal, etc., were in the middle of some growing economically successful city such as Charlotte it would be way more feasible for some viable usage.

Depending so much on our empty buildings, however beautiful they are, and our bargain basement real estate prices as our major attractive features instead of a healthy business climate is... well let's say not too likely to succeed.

We will have the economy and growth rate we deserve based on how strongly we compete in the free market, no more no less.
So much wild brain storming of how exactly we'd like for saviors to go about saving our buildings says so much about us here.

Without real growth here, none of the ideas suggested above will have long term viability.

Ok-
As you all seem to love architecture so much....

Maybe you should consider trying to lure a university to the area. I am thinking specifically about Cornell Univesity's Art, Architecture and Planning Department (http://www.aap.cornell.edu/) to have an "urban extension" much like Virginia Tech has in Alexandria VA (www.ncr.vt.edu - click on Architecture for description). In fact a couple of years ago, the students from Virginia Tech went to Buffalo on a field trip.

In fact the Washington Region has a number of Universities with remote facilities.

I think that given UBs non-commitment to the city it would make perfect sense to try to get Cornell to have mini-facility there. A little competition will probably do more to get UB involved than any of the politicians can do.

I had heard that Cornell was thinking of cutting back on its architecture program because of space problems (unlike a business class, you can't fit 200 people into studio space).

The terminal already has a campus like feel, and the students would have an opportunity to study urban areas in an inspiration setting- without the typical urban cost of say New York city.

The Central Terminal is loved by thousands and Im thrilled to hear Mr Issa is looking into some development ideas for it. It is an incredible place with one of the most dedicated volunteer groups in Buffalo...The Central Terminal is the crown jewel of the East Side!

People, people, have you taken a ride recently down streets like Gibson, Sobieski, Sweet or Paderewski and seen for yourself the utter devastation and blight. It is chilling and sobering.

And now you want to place a convention center there and show all that to visitors??? Yikes!

I'm happy for the folks on Newton and their happy little neighborhood.. I'll be glad to check it out for myself, during the day, but you won't catch me dead down there at nightfall.

Question for Marilyn Rodgers

Who the hell pays for your dream? This thread is about what a businessman SHOULD do, not a socialist government COULD do.

WHAT ABOUT THAT FARMER'S MARKET or FLEA MARKET?

unfortunitly this building is a development white elephant and won't be rehabed without some sort of government assistance. As far as Issa, I'd like to see his current, more practical plans come to fruitition before he decides to take on the CT, it is an entirely different animal.

Forget rail and hotel, it would never work. Government and projects - forget it. Condos, apartments, shops, wedding hall in waiting room or restaurant and offices in all the lower lever buildings. It secure from the neighborhood. If the Larkin can building can work, this has an even better chance of succeeding. Everyone loves the terminal!!!! The Larkin building never had a following. I hope this is finnally it!!!

The Larkin building was an open concrete plan that didn't feature falling plaster, burnt out rooms, floors covered with debris or a small floor plate. That building has a much greater chance to succeed because it is economically viable. Find me a company that wants to put condos and shops into this building without government funding. You don't see many developers dropping $100 million into a questionable project. People's love for the building doesn't make it economically feasible. Don't get me wrong, this is my favorite building in buffalo and when I'm home I'm there doing work, but without the government assistance she'll continue sitting there, its only because of government grants that the building has a roof, windows, clocks...etc.

sportsroadtrip:
Take your negativity elsewhere..Have you ever been to one of the events held at the terminal?5,000 people coming to the brewfest and not one incident,robbery,murder,purse snatching NOTHING! I think that speaks volumes

How about a really big parking lot?

When the Brewfest was here, Memorial Drive and the surrounding streets looked like parking lots. This means that people had to *gasp* walk the streets here to get to the terminal, some of them *gasp* after dark! No one was robbed. No one was beaten.

Oh crap... I forgot! After dark, the machettis and handguns come out. Drug dealers knock on doors peddling their wares. Residents lock themselves in their houses and the vampires come out too! We stand shaking in our bulletproof front windows peering through the curtains waiting for the morning sun so that it all goes away.

Good grief. This neighborhood is NOT perfect, but there are many more out there worse than this one.

Newton street is a happy neighborhood, but that's because we don't let all the bullshit stand in their way. I think if more neighborhoods were like this, the City would be much better off.

Regardless... off to bolt the doors, set up the alarms, get the rottweillers & pitbulls out and sit in my front window shaking! It's dark now...

*sneer*

Nick, Central Terminal is already a designated Buffalo landmark and on the National Reguster of Historic Places, meaning that the work being down now should meet Secretary of the Interior standards. But transportation funds for preservation is intriguing and I hope you can get your work in front of our Washington delegation.

Location. location. location
Dismantle it, and rebuild it on the water front. Many more uses for it there.
call mega-movers

Light, I don't know the details of the buffalo preservation ordinance, if it has a section that regulates repairs on locally listed buildings that guarantees Secretary of the Interior's Standards then the work should be. Otherwise any state or federally funded or permitted work must be reviewed by the NYS Historic Preservation Office. Also people should start petitioning the CTRC to begin the designation process for making the building a National Historic Landmark. This designation would provide access to "Save America's Treasure's" funding.

Great to hear Mr Issa is interested in the Terminal,
We had the pleasure of attending several events there over the summer and hoped someone would come along and realize its potential.

I think the Central Terminal should be a mixed use of all sorts. First, open it up as a rail stattion for Amtrak and get rid of the box under the 190. The Terimal would be a grand entreance for people arriving to the city by train and would help give a better impression on the city to people unfamiliar with it. You would have to connect the light rail from main st. as well. Second, keep it as hall that hosts large events because it seems as if it doing well already. Throw in a fine dinning restaurant and coffee shop. I don't know the exact size inside, but maybe a concert hall, museum (rail, chicken wing, buffalo's demise like so many other northeast cities), and a statue of Mr. Issa!

Well first its important to understand the costs for fixing this old girl up. Then there is an issue with the neighborhood, which to me is not a good enough reason to run away, but rather make it a center of positive energy, perhaps helping to influence and correct issues in the immediate area. The tower is impressive, and can afford views that most of us could only imagine. The idea I have is to perhaps extend the MetroRail to this point, perhaps to allow for eastside ridership and increase fares. To anchor the entire tower could be rental spaces, offices, apartments, meeting rooms, a restaurant or two but most importantly make the prices on the space affordable enough to keep the place full of mixed use tenants. One issue that will always be on the monds of anyone wanting to locate there would be security, so hire a staff to keep the place safe and secure. The terminal hall could serve a a public market area, displays of artwork or even host a band...the ideas are limitless.

This is like the giant elephant in our livingroom, we cant simply ignore it. Bashar might want to take on the task, he may not want to...but I think its important to keep this place around for a long time, however we do that.

Mr. Issa strikes me already as a very proactive guy, which is something that Buffalo is not used to...I welcome him as do many others.

has anyone seen a number ($) as to how much it would cost for a full renovation of the Terminal complex?

Just an idea: Using the CT as a remedial instrument would also create additional remediation of lives and future developments in the area.

I had an office there in the mid 80's when no one else except for Tony Taverna was around the building. I got to know each wall and room intimately. I walked the tunnels and basement areas. I fell in love with the CT. I saw what happened when kids ransacked it and when others came in and stripped the wiring from the phone room. I stood behond the clock windows and marveled at the views. I trudged up more stairs over dead pidgeon carcasses and my soul wept for what had happened to this great place. I have pictures of the opening luncheon and the menu and food order from the Statler. I also happen to know it is built upon 25 feet of solid rubber - that's why it doesn't shake apart when a train goes by. I, and a crew of seven cleaned the concourse for a party - by hand - no fancy equipment.

This is a structure that saw the beginnings of lives and saw the ends of others. Where our local heroes went off to war and only some came back. Where my father worked as a Van Dyke cabbie.
We need to save it, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to see it serve our city again, with ideas that will remediate lives as well as the structure.

As well, there is nothing wrong with assorted opinions or ideas. Your obvious attack on mine has no basis and I wonder why you would be so vicious in your comments. Again, this site is being used as a slam book rather than a rebuilding exercise for peoples diverse ideas and vision. That is so unfortunate.

So, as many before me have done, I took a "thread" and went off a few degrees. Go ahead, shoot me.

To Eastsider, BCT res and others..

So I see, the vacant lots, the boarded up houses on Wilson, Coit, Mills, Lombard and others too numerous to mention are just a figment of my imagination? The boarded up reincarnation of "998" is just an illusion?

I grew up in that neigborhood, went to church and grammar school there. It all breaks my heart. But I am not going back.

I own a service business and have a client that demolishes these broken homes in the city.. One of my tasks is I have to go each of these abandoned homes to perform my service, which usually takes 5-10 minutes at each location.

On days that I do this, I strip my vehicle to the bare minimum of equipment, leave my money and credit cards at the office, report my route to my office and check in every 30 minutes, and most importantly watch my surroundings BEFORE I step out of the vehicle. I have brushed up against hookers, junkies, dealers and assorted thugs looking to do me harm in the past. More than a few stories to tell and they are not pretty. And all this occurred in the DAYTIME.

I have nothing but praise and warm feelings for the CRTC...it is a feel good story. But this vision is ultimately doomed to failure. This building was too big, too expensive and too obsolete in its heyday. Who would want to do anything with it now? And please DON'T commit my tax dollars to this boondoggle!

As to the 5000 of you who ate and drank and reveled in the magnificent lobby of the train station, would any of you like to move into the neighborhood? We have plenty of fixer uppers for sale cheap. We have plenty of empty lots shovel ready for new builds. Walking distance to bus lines and the Broadway Market.

Anyone? Anyone?

Thought so.

thesportsroadtrip, thanks for bringing this thread back to planet earth.

Two things...

1. thesportsroadtrip is right on the money. I'm all for seeing the central terminal restored, but people need to stay grounded in terms of what they are proposing.

2. I've stated this before, but let's see Issa restore the Statler FIRST! Then he can move onto his tower and other potential projects. Until then, he is all talk and little action(elevator rehab at the Statler).

thesportsroadtrip is definitly on the money here. I've cruised the 'hood myself while working in Housing Court and can attest to everything he says. That's why a remediation project needs to occur rather than fluffy vision.

It would be great to perform the same type of remediation as Chatanooga and the Holiday In did with their old train station, but until the crime element and housing is fixed, how can anyone expect visions like that to occur with a full finish that is sustainable?

Fix the neighborhood while fixing the people and that is square one. Whether this is performed by a developer utilizing federal and state monies, or on their own. We have plenty of homeless persons that have education and just need an opportunity to get back in the mainstream. For example, two of the "bums" along Allen during the 80's were former educators that needed help after traumatic circumstances (one a Viet Nam vet, the other lost his wife in a serious incident). If they had the true social aspects serving their needs, they may have had a chance at re-contributing to the community. Plenty of single moms are looking for a life-rebuilding opportunity for them and their children, but there is no where to go. A transitional housing service in the Lower West Side has been very successful, even with one of the first moms purchasing their own home after going through the program. We just lost two individuals due to the bone chilling weather - they were homeless and had no place to go. Do we "poo-poo" these lives since they are no consequence to us in our warm homes? If we do, we have a great deal of learning to do.

So, in getting back to the post, a remedial measure that brings lives back to sustainability and causes a need for new housing can be the platform for success. That's common sense.

Marilyn - I agree that we need to do more for the poor and needy and that their needs should be incorporated into our plans. I am curious as to your fascination with single moms though. Why do you keep going back to that one specific group? Especially when there are large groups that are under-served and under-represented in Buffalo. Single Moms usually understand the adverse conditions and sacrifices associated with raising kids on their own; yet it is becoming more and more popular to do so. Why enable this behaviour and perpetuate the problem?

As for a counter point:

I grew up in the neighborhood to (1975-1995). I still return frequently and walk the streets with $1K worth of photo equipment around my neck. Never have I been approached in a negative manner.

A majority of the interactions are people inquisitive of if I am going to buy the place I am shooting and so a genuine care for the neighborhod that they are stuck in. I walk by children playing in the empty lots. The weird thing is they look genuinely happier than the kids I see out in the subdivisions.

To say that nobody cares and that the area is lost is an over simplification, or maybe even call it a justification on our part to just let it slide into nothing.

The restoration corp is a testiment to what can be done in a hopeless situation. Thank god there are still people out thier with a passion and drive to help restore/retain what a majority of others have just given up on.

Any redevelopment should also focus on the neighborhood bounded by Memorial and the tracks. Then fan it out to encompass the area between the tracks, broadway, flimore and william. The city pry owns a majority of the abandoned houses there. Study what has worked before for other cities and put forth the effort anf dedication to see it through. Between St. Stan's, Corpus Christi, the Broadway Market and the terminal the surrounding area has some wonderful building blocks to work from.

Kelly, let me explain, and thanks for your query. I should have clarified the issue. I'm speaking about single moms that have kids and are facing ar are in a homeless situation due to the fact that we have many, though not necessarily ever brought to the forefront, moms and kids that are escaping domestic violence situations. Sure, they may have gotten themselves into the situation due to poor choices of mates or semi-mates, but they have taken the chance of leaving the bad situation and are in need and can become self-sustainable with proper programs.

The success rate that the transitional housing project I'm speaking of has been 100% with the single mom families having found employment, housing, and sustainable futures for their kids with education, etc.

Everyone wants to get rid of the bums and panhandlers. Believe me, I see it since I live in the West Village and even have folks come to my door. However, unless we look beyond disgust or dismay and attempt to fashion some type of remediation, even if it's holding counselors, case managers, and agencies accountable for the jobs they have taken responsibility for, how are we ever going to see the light at the end of the tunnel?

It's also very easy to chant the old "nimby" routine, but nothing is going to change unless we all attempt to recognize what can be done to make things better rather than expect someone else will do it, or, much less, expect that "those people" will simply go away.

What if, in an area such as this one, there was programming that was sanctioned by social agencies and the courts? Funds are available. Why not attempt to help someone else out that needs assistance, BUT, and I repeat, BUT - with a well-thought out plan that demands a result of self-sustainability? More individuals would have the chance of becoming educated, employed, and also have the opportunity to become homeowners that take pride in their neighborhoods. Doesn't sound too bad to me. BUT - any social improvement plan has to allow for a chance of self-sustainability, otherwise we just have another program for folks to get on and do nothing to take responsibility to improve their lives.

First off, the building is probably large enough to accomodate all of the uses mentioned in this post.

Edward Street: I agree the concourse is small but perhaps we should not consider building a new convention center until the demand is present for larger conventions. There is plenty of space on lower levels to build any size conference rooms deemed appropriate. In the meantime the main convention center could be relocated to the CT and the downtown CC sold.

I like Hashma's idea of moving the Broadway Market to the CT. The current CT tower would probably not accomodate more that 150 or so hotel rooms. The current market site could probably accomodate another hotel. Issa or another developer could talk to property owners and the city about making the first floors of the structures on Paderewski and Lombard retail spaces ala Elmwood.

Steve: I'm not sure why UB light rail is the first priority. Students make due with shuttle buses currently. With the Larkin, CT & downtown en route the airport line should be a terrific catalyst for development.

Light rail extending from downtown, past the Central Terminal, and continuing to the airport would be a great investment by the NFTA. It would create a great opportunity to easily draw people from the airport to downtown. It would also help to create a "node" along the way at the Central Terminal site. Immediately it creates access to the site.
The Central Terminal Site, despite its location, is becoming popular for many events that grow in size each year. It should continue to be a public venue to draw crowds to the area. I think that having a second venue to house conventions of smaller scale would be a good addition to the city. Our new focus it to draw tourism. By hosting more conventions we are woking toward that end.
To support some convention business at the site itself, a hotel feature could be added. The tower would provide wonderful views of the city skyline, the towers of the churches, downtown from afar, and the green tree canopies of the neighborhoods. Areas of the main building could house meeting/conference space for smaller functions, while the main concourse would host large events and conventions.
To keep the site active daily, it would be beneficial to house some office/businesses in the long wings to the east of the main structure. That area could be expanded to provide larger space. It could house a call center, cheap rents for start up businesses who can't afford downtown rents. Its location along the railroad might make it ideal to house shipping operations in the old baggage/mail building.
The grounds themselves are starting to look more and more like a nicely landscaped public park. It is a nice gathering spot for the neighborhood, or even for those who would work in the building, or for conventioneers.
Given the area surrounding has its share of blight and problems. This might involve a commitment from the city to do more. Invest in a focused effort to remove vacant buildings. A developer could be named to build new market rate homes. Starting with Memorial Dr for housing. If Mr. Issa is going to invest in yet another large scale project for the city, it seems fair that the city would finally commit some time and money into an area they've neglected for some time.
Eventually a business corridor could be constructed along Paderewski Dr, to service those who work, live, and visit in the immediate CT area.

Now, I hate to be negative and be a Debbie Downer, and I know this is a theoretical ‘what if’ for the Terminal, but I really hope Bashar Issa doesn’t pursue this project right now. I’m not usually so pessimistic about Buffalo, but let’s face it, most would consider it a miracle if either of his downtown projects ever gets done. Not that I don’t think it can happen, but the Statler and his high-rise should be his focus right now. I don’t want to see him get his efforts (and local finances) spread too thin too quickly. It is so important for downtown to have the Statler saved – and construction hasn’t even begun yet. I really hope the high-rise gets built too. But there’s a reason all these kinds of restorations or projects haven’t been built yet – it’s because no one has figured out how to make money doing it. Let’s let Bashar Issa prove he can make money by spending $130 million on the Statler, then let him give the Terminal a try. In the meantime, leave it in its good hands so it will remain in condition to be restored some day.

I posted my comments yesterday but they never made it out of moderation. You can read my first hand accounting of our meeting with Bashar here:

http://www.shadesofgray.wnymedia.net/?p=360#more-360

Sorry, but in all reality he'd be better served buying up abt 20 blocks east, west, north & south of the terminal and razing the properties. Who in the hell is going to frequent that "gem" in the middle of Mogadishu?

zen, you are just plain wrong.

In 2003, when we reopened to the public, skeptics said that no one would come to see a decayed building on the east side. Tom Bauerle did a radio show promotion that year that drew 4,000 people on one day. Since then more than 70,000 others have visited the terminal. The building is a natural draw, which is more than you can say about the downtown convention center.

My personal fantasy about the redevelopment of the terminal is to one day have an office and a job there promoting events full time at the new convention center (baggage building) and hotel (tower).

Believe me, I hate to seem so negative (often the simple way out), yet while the building may be a destination for isolated events you will never establish it as a consistent draw. The thing is smack dab in the middle of one of the-if not "the"- highest crime ridden parts of WNY. You will need massive neighborhood redevelopment first. The convention center defies any comparison.

How is going-on-our-5th season of events, "isolated"? If getting bigger each year and drawing more people each year is not consistent, I don't know what is.

And the problem with the neighborhood is more one of perception that it is of reality. I'm there all the time and don't feel unsafe.

This year, we will have our 3rd annual SCVA student art show, featuring more than 40 schools from Buffalo, the suburbs and as far away as Colden. It draws more than 1,500 parents and students. Each year, I hear the reservations that people *had* about the neighborhood, followed by the words "but it's really not as bad as I thought".

Some people are afraid to go to the convention center downtown too.

PS - The Museum of Science is in the same area as the terminal.

The fact is the building is a draw in its current state and would only improve with restoration or redevelopment. It is the one attraction I know in the city that consistently bings out the suburbanites in their SUVs with family in tow to trek into a neighborhood they would usually avoid.

I work at Larkin @ Exchange and it has been hugely successful. And this building is an old warehouse in a run down neighborhood, not and architecural "gem."

Another thing to keep in mind is the CTRC always makes an effort to invlove the surrounding nieghborhood in its events. Dyngus Day 2007 is a prime example where it will be cohosting with two other nieghborhood icons.

There are a ton of options for this building but any considered need to keep it a public space.

Memorial Drive is one of the most beautiful and peaceful streets in Buffalo from Broadway to William, The triangle of homes surrounding the terminal are 70% owner occupied with very few vacant properties...The Terminal is one of the most beautiful buildings in Buffalo...Nowhere in Buffalo are there as many amazing churches as there are right at the Terminals doorstep...The Broadway Market..this area is ready!

I think that the one and only proposal I have heard that had any realistic chance of succeeding was for the Seneca Nation to use the CT for the Buffalo Casino. They now have acess to the capital needed for renovation, and, while there are many negative things that can be said about casinos, they will never fail to make a profit., and never go out of business. Any other proposal needs to pay the 100 million + renovation, and have a long term business plan to justify this investment. Right here, right now, in Buffalo N.Y., a casino seems to be the only economic entity that would guarentee a successful, long term reconstruction

Couldn't / shouldn't the CT be used for transportation-related services and interests? Existing rail lines / right-of-ways make it a great distribution & cargo transfer center. Thruway proximity is a big bonus. Of course, a rail museum and themed restaurant would complement the Concourse. The Tower could be marketed to import / export offices and logistics concerns.

Urban Body, trying to understand your suggestion.

Import/export from Canada, you mean?
You're suggesting there's some big currently-unmet demand for a facility in Buffalo to transfer Canadian goods (or good bound for Canada) from trains to trucks or vice versa?

If there's a big unmet demand for that sort of thing here, it's news to me. Wouldn't the people and companies who have demand for that sort of thing have been clammoring for it all along?

Trucks and trains can and do cross the border all the time, so why should there be such a great unmet need for a place to transfer goods from one to the other? Just wondering.

Another idea that might be worth considering is to move the UB school of Architecture out to the terminal, providing large spaces for studio work and classroom space. There could be an exhibit component to the project as well, for the public to come see the work and hear the lectures that are given. Also, there is a large quantity of housing stock available in the surrounding neighborhood. This can provide great opportunity for hands on experience and living display of the schools work. It would be nice to see interesting home rehabs surrounding the terminal, making it a truely unique buffalo neighborhood, from a design standpoint. Its just a thought, and probably would need better transportation links to the south campus. I am not sure it could be justified as a better alternative to a closer site, such as the Richardson Towers. It doesn't hurt to consider alternatives though. Overall, the main councourse area needs to be maintained as a public space for events and for rented occasions. They are highly successful, and bring activity and life to that area of the city on those certain days.

Starbuck,
My thoughts were geared toward encouraging and developing Buffalo as the hub for cross-border commodities--not that we already were. Issa is creative and bold enough to think he can woo Canadian companies to create back-office headquarters in his proposed City Tower--so why not generate some unseen/untapped commodities/transportation industry/activity in the CT.

I wish I could recall the group interested and actively seeking to make that happen, the tie-in to Rt. 219, Canada, etc. GSX? (I can't Google successful results, but perhaps someone out there recalls the effort.) Here is something I found about a Twin Cities MN effort going from "nothing" to something::
http://twincities.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2003/02/03/story4.html

Perhaps the proximity of rail and road to the CT might mean "widgets" can be assembled (whole or in part) and efficiently sent out the door. Think CertainTeed in the Lakeshore Park. So now imagine another manufacturer occuping the CT and utilizing its enormous (grounds) space as another in-city office park.

Just throwing out some ideas--that was our homework assignment. Transportation-related or dependent seems to be the best answer for saving the CT. Why would anyone spend 10s of millions to revamp that structure into something totally different (and glorious) considering the current state (generally dis-invested) of the neighborhood. (Revamping the HHR complex into something it never was is a more sound proposal considering its location.)

If Issa can save the CT or even just buy time to prevent further deterioration, then he is The Man.

Dunno if a lot of cargo rail lines go near the CT nowadays?

Commodities and widget type manufacturing would seem way out of Issa's development genre, such as it is.

Wouldn't a factory usage likely need a more modern infrastucture in many ways? I suppose it depends on what's being manufactured.

NY state doesn't get many new manufacturing sites, what with nation leading (or close) costs for corporate taxes, workman's comp, tort, all that. Not to mention WNY's highest rate of unionization in U.S. There's so many other states a lot cheaper for all of those, so costs saved from Canada proximity might not be as important when those other factors are accounted for,

Route 219 never was expanded/widened the way people were pushing for at one point.

Other than those and any other negatives I didn't think of, seems like a plan. :) (Just kidding.)

I have just read through all the posts here and have enjoyed them very much. The positive, constructive and inovative thoughts and ideas have far out weighed the negative. This says so much about what's good about our community! No one will argue that our local economy is in poor shape and that the east side is also. This presents opportunities if approached with courage, enthusiasm and determination. The BCT can be a focal point for community development.
In other cities in the USA, old, abandoned, run down railroad stations in bad neighborhoods have been rebuilt into multi-use structures which attract visitors and commerce. Kansas City Union Terminal is a shining example. The Tower Center in Cleveland OH, The Cincinatti Union Terminal, St Louis, Boston, Utica NY all tell similar stories. We CAN do it here! Mr Issa has proven himself to be a very good investor/developer. The fact that he is interested in the Central Terminal is exciting! Maybe nothing will come of it, maybe not soon. In the mean time let's not loose sight of the best reason to do anything-for the fun of it! We of the CTRC do what we do because it's enjoyable. We are a small group of volunteers from a diversity of backgrounds banded together for a common goal. Involved in a project which brings enjoyment to many people and benefits our community. I have stated many times that the BCT is the biggest toy I have ever played with and if they tore it down tomorrow I would not regret one moment I have spent there.
I have had the privilege of meeting so many wonderful people!
Yes, it's a junk pile,yes it's a ruin, yes it's in a bad neighborhood but BOY do we PARTY! Ask anyone who came last year. We have an even better event schedule lined up for 2007. Come and play with us