Buffalorising has been redesigned.

Data Centers, WalMart, Target, Tops...Geico, National Fuel...Buffalo needs to start taking this wide open land and do what the suburbs are doing...we know its not going to have housing infill.

I have kayaked down the Buffalo River and I cannot believe it is so under utilized. People in other cities are rabid about have access to water. I am really looking forward to seeing what will be on the table for this land. I hope it will be a nice connection between downtown and South Buffalo

New Buffalo Bills Stadium location?

The property is listed as being "environmentally clean", huh? Would you mind if I got a second opinion? What is this "Hickory Woods" I keep hearing about?

Malooga- The State sets different thresholds for 'clean' industrial/commercial property than 'clean' and appropriate for residential property. Steelfields undertook a $16 million voluntary clean-up of the site with NYS Dept. of Conservation oversight.

A 100 foot set back should be appropriated along the Buffalo River for future public access to the water.

In places like Seattle that did similar activities back in the 80's (I believe) and created the Burke-Gilman Trail. The response: businesses such as Adobe and other high tech and high paying jobs located their offices right along the trail to provide their employees with this quality of life amenity. By doing so it has attracted and retained workers while increasing the health of their employees - they have access to bicycle and running/ walking paths that that they can utilize to get to and from work or for some exercise during their lunch hour. Healthier employees are then more productive employees, higher employee retnetion and thus saves the company money.

westcoast:

I know what you're saying - I actually work in the environmental field. My point is, the standards are lower for industrial properties, and even those weren't met (or, it appears, thorough confirmation sampling was not conducted) at Hickory Woods. So we really have no way of knowing for sure if the standards have been met here.

That being said, one method of engineering controls at industrial sites is paving over the area to prevent contact with contaminated materials. Since these areas are being marketed for these purposes, one can be reasonably sure that parking areas and loading docks for future businesses would cover a good portion of potentially-contaminated soils.

Additionally, the fact that this was a private developer overseeing the remediation, and not a corrupt local government entity, I think we can all breathe a little easier about the reuse of this site. I remain CAUTIOUSLY optimistic.

However, any company that decides to utilize a portion of the property may want to undertake their own investigation of the site - you never know what sort of hidden documentation can be missed during an initial investigation (a la Elmwood Hotel).

I hate golf....but I would love to see a first class golf course somewhere down on the waterfront, in the winter it could be converted to cold weather outdoor activities like x-country skiing. This obviously wouldn't generate a lot of revenue but perhaps things would spring up around it. Pipe dream..I know.

Zen, I like your idea. A golf course would certainly help beautify the area...

Justin... wow what an excellent idea! When I was a kid that river stunk so bad nobody wanted to go near it (I remember the bridge crossing at Seneca/Elk in particular ewww!). But the river has come back and should be given its hallowed ranking as a waterfront asset. Great point hope someone is paying attention.

Justin Booth has a very good idea. Heed it.

Love the golf course idea. They could make it like a British course. It would be low maintenance and one of a kind in the northeast region.

The idea of a golf course is quite intriguing. I think the land to the left would have to be utilized as well, but it would be a really unique experience in an urban setting, plus something like this could go a long way in making the area from Cobblestone down to this plot a burgeoning tourist destination. A problem this would face would be that the area around this land would really need to be beautified, not many high quality golf courses are next to old junkyards. Beautification in this area is not necessarily a bad thing however.

There was a plan to expand South Park's golf course onto former railroad property some time ago. Set-aside greenspace along the river- but 170 acres should be used to attract and retain businesses. How about some jobs here? Any developers willing to put up some spec buildings for firms looking to move quickly? Lets get with it.

A golfcourse is a fine idea - as long as it is not a city or county operated facility. PRIVATE INVESTMENT IS NEEDED!

Golf course!!! Now thats a great idea. Either privately funded or public funding, every big city needs a golf course, having a new course downtown will increase exposure to the sport and bring people to an area that is usually not travelled to. Maybe we could attract some big names to sponsor and help design the course. Ontario recently opened a John Daly course and a Reese Jones designed course drawing golfers from the US. Lets try to get some golfers from CA coming to Buffalo

there already has been about 10 plans for a gold course in these SB brownfields the ONLY benefit of such a development would be to rid the Olmsted parks of their courses. IN which case it is worth it otherwise they are expensive waste of spaces that horribly pollute the land and water around them.

We need to put pressure on the state and city to stop using the river for overflow before I think we can get the true economic benefits from it. Expand the treatment station, enact porous paving laws for parking within the city, In Germany you rarely see asphalt lot, everything is done with pavers, cobbles etc.. it actually makes parking lots look decent. The trees grow better and they don't need to dump their sewage into the water systems. But who are we to make the right decision this is the US after all. Whatever is cheapest must be the best right?

This is also the perfect path to extend light rail south to OP, I don't necessarily like the location but Ralph Wilson stadium is a great place, larger than most and has a lot of history to it, I don't see why it wont be functional for another 50 or 100 years with upkeep. It is already there, and anyone who wants to put a dome here should be shamed of themselves. The weather is our best ally in this town.

I just hope that whatever does go there isn't whatever we can get and will actually improve the life of the city and regions residents. More strip plazas don't do anything to grow and actually improve the life our residents.

Well excuse me Buffalorising posters but this is one topic where I think everyone who talks of using these brownfield sites for golf courses, targets and walmarts and nature preserves are so utterly beyong my comprehension of idiots that I dont think I can find a strong enough word to describe their obvious insanity.

Does population loss of 50% mean anything to you?
Does flipping, foreclosed homes, abandoned homes and demolitions mean anything to you?
Does American Axle, Delphi, Bethlehem, Republic, Mobile, etc.. and other loss of Buffalos major employers mean anything to you?
Does the fact that Buffalo has some of the highest poverty in NYS much less the nation mean anything to you?

and in the light of all these detriments that our city has suffered even the consideration that some of our valuable and rare large parcel urban land that can be used to lure large to significant employers would be abandoned for a golf outing or a duck watch or a retailer (as if Buffalo doesnt have enough empty retail plazas on the east side and south side) is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.

Maybe such posters should visit a nursing home/hospital/hospice patient that has no visitors because everyone they know and love has moved away for lack of employment...and tell then their better off being alone because it improved their golf game or their being alone was worth the excitement of a flock of ducks.

Maybe such posters should visit addiction treatment centers, food pantries or jails and tell all those whose life was destroyed by a lack of employment and the poverty that entails...that their suffering improved their golf game ... and the duck population.

BuffaloRising posters, these are peoples lives not some abstraction! People need education and jobs to live with dignity for themselves and their families! Its unfortunate that so few people understand it!

wow

Ben,

what do your comments have to do with this article?

p.s. get back to work

As I said I hate golf but the notion of something that would attract people from the suburbs (people with money) into the city would be a good thing, perhaps other peripheral things would follow. Within your altruistic ranting I'm not really sure of what you propose putting there, a sympathy warehouse for all the disenfranchised? None of us need a lesson on the ills & injustices rampant in the world, yet one must occasionally consider aesthetics and the like.

@ Ben

So what, all the problems that you listed are unique to Buffalo? Where is this magical city you allude to where everyone is highly educated and gainfully employed because I want to move there too? Since when is it a crime for a city to be established. There's a reason that Southern cities that "everyone" is leaving to are CURRENTLY growing a fast rate: there wasn't squat there before. The result is falsely inflated property values and an infrastructure not as thorough as older Northern cities. Have you ever watched HGTV? There are at least two shows about house flippers and all the properties are in the Carolinas.

I don't deny that there is a population decrease. But don't forget those numbers reflect those that live within what is defined as the city on some map. There are still 1 million residents in Erie County. The footprint of Buffalo is relatively small. Most bigger cities simply include their first-ring suburbs in defining what is "the city".

What's so attractive about big name employers other than name recognition, and what does that really do? Who is more likely to ask for handouts to set up shop, or to stay, here? When a big name company has trouble, thousands of local jobs are instantly in jeopardy-we still haven't recovered from Bethlehem. The majority of Americans are employed by SMALL business. Big business is usually expensive to get, keep and makes it harder for an area to adapt, survive and ultimately thrive.

And why not a golf course? It makes perfect sense from a demand point of view. Even with our short season we have one of the highest percentages of golf courses per capita in the nation. I, too, support removing the courses from the Olmstead parks.

btw, we understand it. That's why there is BRO in the first place.

As I said, your an idiot....

I know 2000 people that need to put food on their tables and a golf course isnt going to do it!

Neither will a nature preserve unless it allows hunting!

But hey if you like golf so much, please go to those hospitals, hospices, nursing homes, food pantries, jails, addiction centers, homess shelters....and tell them that their lives are better because you have a more convenient place to golf!

Ive never heard of such selfish self centered uncompassioned pleas for personal motives

Hey Ben -

So if a "large to significant " (your words) high-tech company were to set up shop in this area and bring with it 1,500 jobs, would 1,500 of your starving friends be qualified to work there? No, chances are, only a handful would be (if any - face it, if they are that talented at what they do, why are they having trouble putting food on the table?!) To add to my point, any large to significant company moving into any area would likely recruit both nationally and internationally to find the best of the best, so that makes even fewer available positions for this group who obviously aren't among the cream of the crop, as explained above.

Also, please tell me how any new jobs in the area help a person in jail. THEY'RE IN JAIL, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!

Lastly, "your" means that which belongs to you, or that which you have contributed. "You're" means you are. To use them both in a sentence, "Your nonsensical ramblings and misplaced anger make it seem like you're a dimwit with an agenda."

Wow, Ben really does have a point here, folks. This land reclaimation could be used for remediation of some of the issues Ben has mentioned.

All it takes is creative thinking and planning along with allowing what an individual wants for themselves to be replaced by what the area needs - and it's true - we need to show more compassion - not necessarily hands out - but compassionate thinking to create something that many citizens in Buffalo can utilize for the betterment of the community-at-large.

Justin has some great ideas, but sometimes I want to remind him that there are a lot of folks that aren't as young or limber as he and many of his contemporaries that need space, too.

So, what can be done in this area for the WHOLE of the city to benefit from?

Golf is great - don't get me wrong - I miss golfing a great deal. How could a place as described by Justin and the golfers out there be used to benefit the community, youth, elderly, homeless?

If we just take a few minutes and think this out, we can all benefit and understand, as well, Ben's frustrations.

Ben.....please take your negativity elsewhere....you obvioulsy have some major issues as it pertains to this issue....so according to your logic, there should never be any development unless it it pertains to hospitals, hospices, nursing homes, food pantries, jails, addiction centers, and homess shelters......let's get serious here and examine some things.....probably the first thing we should examine is your head. We most definitely need to hire a cleaning crew to clean the cobwebs out of there...enough said....here is to BUFFALO making a comeback.....BTW Malooga....do you have that name on your license plate???

Ben is correct! I would go one step further & close down the zoo & appropriate its money toward homeless shelters & the homeless could also eat the animals there. Furthermore, F- the art gallery, the trash hanging on the walls could be used for 55 gallon drum fires to warm the poor. And don't get me started on the materialistic shops of gluttony & self-indulgence on Elmwood Ave & the piggies that patronize them.

Marilyn,
Nothing can ever be created to benefit or appease even a majority of the population, let alone everyone. A golf course would, as someone else mentioned, need private funding, though I'm sure ben would feel that any private interests should donate their money to the poor. This would be a proverbial drop in the bucket though. If Ben has issues with the things he claims to be of significance I would think that he would be setting himself on fire in the front of the White House to protest the billions spent in Iraq. It is noble yet naive to think money should only be directed toward the poor & wanting.

jhill:

Methinks you've seen me driving around town!

BTW, did anyone else notice that the grass and the river are the same color in this photo?!

Ben seems to feel for the homeless and those out of work, as do we all. What I find odd is that Ben is saying we are all horrible people for thinking of ideas to use empty land and atleast make it active and perhaps on the tax rolls as well. A retailer would add to the tax base, thus giving the city and county more money to aid social programs to help those Ben pointed out. A tech company would probably not hire homeless employees, but would hire some folks from out of town who would need homes, and a new life in Buffalo...perhaps one of the out of work Buffalonians could get a job from a spur of business in that respect? While I understand Ben's comments, the people of BRO are not to blame for the closing of Republic or Bethlehem or even Ford of Trico. The Industrial economy is phasing away into a technological and research economy, it is up to people to drive themselves to a future and making a life for themselves, its not up to Buffalo or any of the companies who are listed.

Ben, enjoy reading BRO and I hope you have the best of luck complaining of misfortunes while everyone around you has them too at times...GROW UP!

How about a mixed use - Golf Course/Soup Kitchen/Drug Rehab...

Plenty of caddies, willing to work for probably less than usual...
People could fish balls out of the water to support themselves...
The 19th hole could double as "Friends of the Early Morning Crowd Soup Kitchen"

Let's be creative here - this could be one of a kind place...

Thanks for the idea Ben

Mark my words, it will be sitting in the same condition in 10 years, so dont get all worked up about it people.

Marilyn, bicycling and walking are the best forms of exercise to retain or regain limberness! Barring a crippling accident, you can do them all your life! So bring on the 100' setback and uninterrupted riverfront access.

So, locals like golf, a lot of business people like golf...
We have low vacancy rates for grade A & B offices so more can be built...
There is water and rail access...

Business park, with a combination of coble stone parking & trees, walk ways that lead to tech friendly office buildings, light-medium grade manufacturing and contractors (to support these businesses), built to suite. There could be a golf course along the water with public access and cafe-juice bar.

This could satisfy a lot of people's concerns.

I work in the human services industry and recognize that many of the people some posters deem illiterate or unemployable are truly educated persons with a need for life-building remediation. Ben has a point, albeit his delivery was less than cordial, the responses to his posts were also delivered with a great deal of anymosity.

I'm not going to post numbers or factoids here. We've seen them all. We've also witnessed, firsthand, the decay of the mid- to low-income population to an almost class-level "let them eat cake" attitude. Those who have contributed to our city's past success as an industrial giant now suffered or have passed on due to the disabilities they suffered as a result of their work in factories or plants such as these. They and their descendants need to be considered, as well.

Any type of area cited for remediation could consider the needs of the population while still creating an area that contributes back to the community for all classes.

Jobs are needed, that's for sure, and we have plenty of folks waiting in the wings who could fill many positions, if they would only have the chance.

Our city was built by masses of immigrants with, what many posters here would consider, lack of education. It was their will and determination, along with job opportunity so they could build a future for their families, that Buffalo became the Queen City of the Lakes - or maybe I should say "Regina Urbis."

Who worked at Republic Steel in the first place? Probably some of the same folks and/or their descendants that seem to be disenfranchised by those posters on this article.

As musician Al Stewart recognized: "Look to the past and remember no empire rises that sooner or later won't fall."

What constitutes good planning on a common sense level? Planning that considers the good of the whole versus a one shot, feel-good for the few. Planning like that allows for retention of population and pride in community.

A note to Regina Urbis: All I am saying is that the many citizens of this area with disabilities need to be considered utilizing the base of your concepts to satisfy the needs of the whole community.

"Barring a crippling accident...?" There are more incidents of acquired disabilities due to incidents or unhealthy conditions found in WNY than "crippling accidents." I can only surmise you are very young and have not been affected by a situation or a relative who has to face disability issues caused either by genetics or by atmosphere. Please consider this before making blanket statements that sear the heart of those formerly healthy who now are reduced to a life that is half of what they celebrated in their early years. Thank you.

Guess again, Marilyn. Lost one of my dearest friends to an irreversible coma after a freak work accident. Got to know the Trauma Unit at ECMC all too well. Have worked in disability services. Studied American Sign Language. Have been known to lean on property owners who block pedestrian/wheelchair access. Can show you frightening EPA maps of toxic waste sites in Buffalo. Oh, and I'm dull and middle-aged.

But so what? Does the existence of industry-caused disability and illness mean that we should NOT insist on an uninterrupted 100' setback for public access to the riverfront? And that we should not build bike and jogging paths? Are you really implying that it insults people with disabilities to praise the lifelong benefits of cycling and walking? Or to acknowledge that, golly, permanent injuries do have a way of interfering with activities that you once enjoyed?

P.S. ADA is the law of the land. If you think that a developer is breaking the law, file suit. I will back you 100%.

You're way, way off, RU. What I am saying is create a mixed use/serviceable area that everyone can enjoy. Frankly, all I have seen lately are comments citing things and events that young, vibrant citizens lash onto. We just need to remember that our community is made up of varying lifestyles and people, and if an area is set up for common use, this should be a consideration.

As for ADA, there are a number of businesses that do not go by the rules and the people with disabilities suffer for it. And, attempting to have it addressed via EEOC takes forever and is, for the most part, a very undignified process. So, can we please consider those in the design for common areas to assure they don't have to beg for inherent rights?

Tiger Woods aside, there is little about golf that appeals to huge numbers of people under 40, unlike, say, soccer. I hear of lots of retirees moving to golf communities but I never hear of retirees moving to basketball communities. No unfair youth bias there.

Paved bike and jogging paths accomodate wheelchairs beautifully. It's a little over the top to claim discrimination based on the idle chatter of those who post here. None of us are in a position to impose our preferences on that property.