A Master Plan Might Be The Answer
As one would suspect, talk of a new design for Pano’s has brought a firestorm of opinion, and rightly so. As with all major projects there are to be opinions as to if a project such as this should be allowed or even encouraged to happen. One thing is for certain, that this block of Elmwood is being targeted for significant development.
While reading through the responses to the post on Pano’s, one thing (as an urban planner) stuck out at me. Maybe the problem with both the Elmwood Village Hotel, which, we were just informed is dead (but is still being marketed as a possible development site/parcel), and Pano’s, is that we are trying to deal with problems that neither project can solve on its own. What has been a large sticking point between the Hotel and Pano’s? The need for more parking. But how can this be achieved while keeping the block as urban as possible? As a planner, I tend to think of how can we get all of this new development to work together? How can we design new development so that it meets the communities’ vision for the neighborhood? The answer, why not consider a master plan for the block?
Now, I know what some of you are thinking: “Great another plan, just what we need!” In this case though, I would feel it is prudent. Taken separately, both of these developments would greatly change the landscape of this block. The greater likelihood is that once either, or even both, developments would be completed that there would be a push to do the same with the parcels in between. The first five houses from Forest were slated for the Hotel. The site is still a viable corner that should be worked into the transformation of the block. Next, is Home of the Hits, which sadly is closing, but also is for sale. Between Home of the Hits and the Atwater house are three doubles, which are residential rentals only. This leaves a largely continuous stretch, which could be developed all at once. Now, I am not saying that there should be one developer who should take on this whole stretch, but a master plan that sets clear goals and design standards to guide future development of the block should be in place to deal with this development pressure.
To deal with the major problem, parking, is rather simple if we are looking at this whole block as a whole. Have one continuous parking lot behind where the holtel was to be located, new mixed-use development, and Pano’s. If properly executed, there might be room for the Atwater House (to appease the preservationists). This would significantly reduce the need for so many curb cuts along the block, which would in turn add to the street parking.
If taken as a whole, this block along Elmwood could be a huge success, and an example of how good development can happen in Buffalo. If we continue to follow this very piecemeal approach to development, then we will continue to have these continuous, back and forth arguments in which nothing is really accomplished other than to raise the blood pressure of several hundred Buffalonians. So what do you think, is there a third answer to the Pano’s question?
Aerial image created using Google Earth.
Your plan would be a good way to go for all of Elmwood. Hopefully we are not doing things to "appease" preservationists but to protect the viability and quality of the city. Saving the Atwater is one way to do that. Also the Hotel did not have a parking problem it has a deed restriction problem
Makes sense to me. If you can sell this to the people with the extreme views of both sides, it would be great.
Steel - would the deed restriction come into play with this idea?
what about all the people who live behind those parcels? think of all the noise and disruption that all of that development would create. and not to mention all the traffic! what we need is a petition to show city hall that we don't want any kind of investment in our community, that would help to preserve all of the derelict residential properties in perpetual staus quo, and would perpetuate the depretiaion of our quiet and peacefull nieghborhoods. enough of all these "plans" and "ideas", the city has been blissfully dormant for decades. why would we want anything to change?
Olde-tyme planners were no dummies (IMHO)… they put alleys behind and connecting many streets on the west side and behind Delaware Ave (for example). To this day, it is a civilized alternative to garbage totes at the curb and curb-cuts for parking and garages. In the "core" Elmwood retail section, you have Gill Alley and another I cannot remember the name of. "Back Alleys" do have their down-side but, they really help keep the front sidewalks friendlier, the businesses and/or residents more in touch with their neighbors/passersby and put a MUCH better face on the street than cars, garage doors, garbage and utilitiy meters!
Good thing that hotel idea is dead, the last thing Buffalo needs is more people / money.
Get ready for this.... I'm gonna show you one (and most likely only one) instance where Amherst really spanks buffalo.
In Buffalo, historic buildings often face demo when standing in the way of some fancy new build.
In recent years in Amherst, if a historic building stands in the way of progress, they move it.
A number of historic building have been moved to the Amherst Museum.
STAY WITH ME FREE THINKERS!!!
The complex grounds around the corner become the BUFFALO Museum. Plenty of space to showcase a couple / few dozen structures. First inductee?.... The Atwater House!
Re-do old psych center into 1800's era hotel. put in historic transplants w/ cobble stone streets (foot traffic only). turn each out building (transplants) into shops / restaurants. Instant people magnet (very old world). Whole project viewed as a saviour for otherwise doomed buildings. "The Buffalo Museum" becomes the focal point of the new Museum / Gallery district. [insert extra big dream here] .... and move the Buffalo psych center over to ECMC campus and get rid of the newer hospital to rebuild the wing of the old psych center, and free up more land for transplants.
The hotel would have been the greatest thing to happen to Elmwood Ave in the past 100 years. It would have brought visitors to the area who would spend some money and have some fun. The new drawing for Pano's is excellent. He is a success story and we should be working with him to make him a greater success. If Elmwood Ave had 10 more people like Pano the whole area would be booming. All of the empty store fronts on Elmwood are doing no one any good. Don't oppose someone just because he is successful. There are many buildings along Elmwood that are slowly deteriorating and many shops only remain for a year or two.
Zombo
Your idea actually isn't that crazy, if done right. Check out the Strawberry Banke museum in Portsmouth, NH. It is located within walking distance of the downtown. While they have much older homes and buildings than Buffalo, the Buffalo museum could be geared more towards the turn of the century and Pan-American era buildings and lifestyles.
However, I would place this more as a last resort since I'd rather see buildings and homes being used as something other than museum pieces.
On the way to other errands, I often stop at the 24 Store at Bird/Elmwood; I find a parking spot within sight of their door, every time. Parking has never been a problem for me, but I suppose some people are too lazy to walk one or two hundred feet.
It has been demonstrated thousands of times, all over the country, that adding more & more parking to a popular neighborhood destroys its character and ultimately kills business. Elmwood and Forest have a single lane in each direction, and the number of vehicles they can handle is strictly limited. This is a neighborhood commercial strip, not downtown Main Street.
OTB
Not a last resort.... an opportunity.
An opportunity to make something (a big something), out of nothing.
The Amherst Museum is largly just that, not a truly functional attraction.
What I propose would bring people, money, and new life to a treasured part of our city.
You'd have to get Buff State to stop miking the psych center grounds for all the money it's worth - ie get them to stop redirecting the Richardson money for other projects.
Anyway... the back alley parking situation is a good one. What are the logistics of something like this? Who would own and maintain it (pay insurance on it?)? Can the EV Association own and maintain such a thing? That would be a proactive way of getting parties at the table. Pano could have parking on 2 sides of his property plus runover in the back alley strip, and there would also be parking for for EV shoppers and the hotelers. I think the hotel was supposed to have it's own underground lot with enough room to accomodate its capacity.
I can't believe the hotel is dead (as in I'm holding out hope that there will be another announcement once the legal bs is worked out). I think the hotel will happen.
Zombo, Great Idea! I like it. That is such a barren wasteland over there at the Richardson, lets use it.
Mark Rogers...do you live in buffalo????
I cant ever get down this block because of traffic from shoppers, diners, bar hoppers...have you ever been down this block? Traffic is already nearing dangerous over saturation. This hotel is a solution in search of a problem. These properties should have been confiscated by the city years ago for neglect and building code violations by this Sasquatch sighting slumlord!
It is time to stop debating and planning and start implementing new projects here in Buffalo. There have been countless studies and master plans done in this city over the years. I think both the new hotel and the Pano's expansion are excellant high quality projects that will greatly improve the physical appearence and image of Elmwood Avenue. Lets demolish that dilapidated, worthless Atwater House and those five other disgusting old rat traps and let these two new projects proceed without any further delays.
YES! An Elmwood master plan that requires all businesses to include parking "INSIDE THEIR STORES" so those people who think walking even 25 feet is unreasonable can be fully served.
Anytime there is any posting about Elmwood it seems to get everyone up in arms. You can always count on the "AGAINST EVERYTHING" group to be against anything proposed.
And all parties think the OTHER guy is the "against everything" group.
A drive-thru district? hmm... That could work, although your dentist might hurt his back, reaching over the steering wheel to get at back teeth. hehehe
Good God Zombo, your Buffalo Museum idea is possibley one of the best ideas I've heard in the last year. Too bad it won't happen. But man what a great idea.
The Richardson complex would be a spectacular hotel, spa and conference center!
Set back fom the street; great grounds just begging to be landscaped; historical building; a short walk to the Albright Knox, the BECHistorical Museum & the soon to be built new Burchfield-Penny!
I like the idea of that even better than the Forest-Elmwood hotel proposal!
Just look at the Roycroft Hotel in East Aurora, the tourists it attracts and the tourist dollars that are spent there!
HELLO!
What is going on with the $100,000,000 of NYS money that was allocated for the Richardson buildings?
"Forever known as the Zombo Compromise, the historic grounds were the tipping point in creating one of the most exciting historic districts - within a village - within any US city. Buffalo now attracts nearly one million tourists a year, seeking out unknown, underserved, and undiscovered treasures."
If ya’ll think my idea of the Buffalo Museum at the Richardson complex has merit, just wait till I drop some other ideas on ya.
(Sorry – off topic)
I have two proposals for the Aud. I have mentioned both in the past, so I will try to be brief here.
First, a beer / brewing “heritage” museum of WNY. We had a few large scale breweries in the area, now long gone and mostly forgotten. Want to see some, check out this link - http://imagesofwny.com/gallery/album05/iowny012
The Aud is not only big enough to hold such an attraction, but to also hold a small brewery.
Second idea for the Aud is to turn it into a whole new type of mall. It could have small stores that largely reflect local retailers and / or products (past, present, and future). Mix in a couple restaurant / bars, perhaps a couple sports related entertainment venues (ESPN?). Keep the rink, put back the original logo. Use the rink for Kids games, sabres practice, seasonal open skate, and an expo space the rest of the year. I forget the exact figure, but I believe the rink area was built to withstand a huge amount of weight per square inch, so any expo (in warmer weather) should be fine.
- There is a lot more to both ideas.
I don' t think either would really every happen, but I can dream...
A good portion of it was siphoned off for the new Burchfield Penny metal clad suburban office park museum while Buff State lets the Richardson Towers and the outbuildings rot.
What does "appease the preservationists mean"? The best thing about that entire block is the Atwater House. It shouldn't be thought of as a "scap" to quiet the barking "preservationists." Everything should work around the most important architectural structure on the block, which is the Atwater House.
I like that. The "Zombo Compromise"
The Strawberry Banke in Portsmouth is a good benchmark to follow.
For some reason, in Buffalo there's very little multi-level ramp parking outside of downtown. It's mainly because land in Buffalo is so inexpensive, it's still economically viable to "waste" land on vast surface parking lots.
In the busy Coventry neighborhood in Cleveland Heights, there is a three level city-owned parking ramp with ground-level retail frontage. The ramp is fairly well-concealed. (see the image at http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10530 . Sorry, Akismet.)
Developers in Buffalo have shied away from ramp parking because, with Buffalo's bargain real estate prices, the cost of a ramp is higher than the land needed to provide those additional spaces. Now, the city might just have to bite the bullet and consider a neighborhood ramp.
"The best thing about that block" is the emty and unremarkable Atwater House? A block that contains a thriving business that brings people into the area at all hours of the day?
"best thing" meaning "most attractive and interesting building", yep.
Atwater is 'unremarkable' only to the blind, apparently. And there are none so blind .....
That block contains many more than just one thriving business.
Eric, please explain.
Apparently we see two different cities.
I know this isn't about parking garages, but I wanted to toss out an example of the nicest parking garage I've ever seen. It holds 670 cars. One of these in the EV would solve tons of problems and not be at all bad looking. It's in downtown Ithaca, NY.
http://www.highlandassociates.com/PUB_ACC/ithacaparking.htm#
Break eggs not buildings. Moving the Atwater house is an EXCELLENT IDEA. The house would be saved, perhaps at a better location, and Pano could get his new restaurant. Are we talking WIN/WIN or what?
Robert Preskop wrote, "I think both the new hotel and the Pano's expansion are excellant high quality projects that will greatly improve the physical appearence and image of Elmwood Avenue"
It is interesting that Pano spoke publicly against the hotel project but certainly likes his own project.
of course if the business employees had underground parking while customers had parking in the rear ...THAT would really be the best of both world and the best compromise.
The Atwater house needs to stay but the Duplexes can go and be replaced with storefronts built to the sidewalk like the opposite side of the street where Mr Goodbars is..
preferable office or rental properties would be highly valued for the next 3-4 floors.
My guess is that the so called Elmwood Hotel is going to be rethought as a larger Hotel and Conference Center for Buffalo State, Canisius, Medaille and the Cultural District to be located at the present site of Millard Fillmore Gates Hospital.
Such a Hotel and Conference Center would only increase the value and likelihood of the Gates Tower Condominiums.