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Harvey,

I have to say that I feel seriously conflicted about Urban Roots. I love the idea of city residents getting together to make something work for them and beautifying the city at the same time. Often the rallying cry in Elmwood Village, and other parts of the city, is to support local businesses (something I firmly believe in). However, I have a hard time getting behind it when I believe that these efforts should focus on the Clinton-Bailey market. It rubs me the wrong way - like some snobby West Side rejection of the East Side.

I can understand your opinion, but I feel that if it happens anywhere in the city, it's good. Don't take it as a rejection

I see your point BuffaloRox, but in reality the West Side doesn't have anything as cool as the Clinton - Bailey Market. If anything there's a littte jealousy. And although Urban Roots is located on the West Side, I don't think it's just a West Side project. In fact most of what Urban Roots purchases comes from Clinton Bailey or their vendors and it's unfortunate that more of those funds aren't being put back into the community surrounding the market.

I'm not sure how much direct East Side economic bennefit comes from Clinton / Bailey. It appears to mostly be farmers from the outskirts of Buffalo selling their wares.

I understand the conflict but I don't think it's a rejection of the East Side as much as an effort to improve the West Side, and urban gardening in general - that was started by West Side residents.

I'd love to see something similar on the East Side. In fact, I'd really like to see some of the urban vegetable gardening projects that have been proposed for the East Side take off. And I'd like to see the Clinton Bailey Market become more of an economic force for residents of the East Side (someone correct me if I'm wrong here - maybe the Clinton Baily Market is very involved in East Side econ dev and neighborhood work and I"m just not aware of it).

You know how this stuff works - someone has to to decide it's necessary enough to sacrifice their own personal time towards making it happen. That's what's happening on the West Side with Urban Roots and that's what's going to be necessary on the East Side.

It took a long time for the West Side to start looking at itself with more pride. The same thing is starting to happen across several areas on the East Side - but in both neighborhoods there is still a long way to go and we need less competition and more collaboration.

Unfortunately the informal collaboration that is taking place between Clinton Bailey and Urban Roots probably isn't bennefiting the East Side right now. Although that could be changed - it's probably not going to be changed by a bunch of residents from the West Side or the Elmwood Villiage area.

I support East Side projects whenever I can (I helped Bloadway Filmore Alive get started). But I think we should encourage more people to get involved in rebuilding our neighborhoods rather than suggest that the few who are should refocus their efforts on other things that need work.

You can't purchase mulch, soil, compost, or tools from Clinton Bailey - this plus classes and proximity to residents of the West Side is what Urban Roots is offering. Considering the millions that are spent every year for Buffalo gardening I think there is plenty of opportunity to go around - it would be nice to see something similar pop up on the East Side. Someone just needs to start it.

I hope that you will either support Urban Roots, or help to get something similar started on the East Side. If you decide to do the latter, let me know and I"ll pitch in too.

Harvey

The vast majority (if not ALL) of vendors at Clinton Bailey are suburban or rural. And I still have to drive 5 or so miles each way to get there. The whole idea of Urban Roots is to have something CLOSE BY that is not Home Depot.

I think Clinton Bailey will survive just fine despite Urban Roots.

In this era of big boxes and one-stop shops, it's easy to think of one place as a replacement of another place. That doesn't need to be the mind-set of a city. A city can and should offer some unique options that people who depend on big boxes don't have. A city has the ability to have little places that are one thing to their local area. There's a small grocery store on Connecticut that I love with things Tops and Wegmans doesn't have. It's not a replacement.

In this case, Urban Roots isn't meant to replace Clinton and Bailey, it's meant to enhance Buffalo. As Harvey said in his title, one flower at a time.

So come out on Saturday. Say hello. Buy a tomato plant, trade a plant. Tell us we're nuts.

Hey don't worry - I don't think any of us will stop visiting the Clinton Bailey Market. We will be offering different services. The reality is, that we are not serving the Elmwood Village. With efforts like the Plant Swap, where people can pick up mature plants for free, and just being west of Richmond Avenue, we are serving a lower income population that doesn't drive. We are going to provide anything you need to garden within walking distance of some of the most neglected housing in the city. Our hope is that residents will be inspired by our presence.

The reality is that the people who live in the City and shop for plants at Clinton Bailey, also drive to Home Depot, and Niagara Falls and West Seneca and Hamburg in search of plants, mulch and tools. Our hope is that we can bring some of what people are wasting their fuel on, driving all over WNY, into our neighborhood, provide jobs, and tax income to the City and the people who live here.

We are also going to work on advocacy on native plants and heirloom plants that are best for our climate, valuable, and unusual. What the FDA has done to the availability of vegetables in this country is criminal. It is possible to grow vegetables in your yard that have not been seen in a grocery store for 50 years. I think that is cool. This is the kind of stuff a cooperative garden center can see .

Come out and check it out on Saturday!

As the super heirloom enthusiast of the group, I second, third, and forth, Cynnie's thoughts on the FDA's behavior regarding the availability of a diverse range of vegetables. It is criminal that there are not more varieties of vegetables available commerically. While the word people use now is "heirloom" and that has a connocation of exclusive, it is anything put. Its about putting all those great varieties back into gardens that great-grandparent brought over in boats when them emigrated to America. It's about bringing unique seeds from different parts of the country back into circulation. It's about providing quality options to those with the inspiration to garden. And it's also about great taste. If one is going to spend all of that time gardening, watering, and caring for plants, why not have a whole range of tastes, not just the few types available from the seeds offered by a few corporations. Come, I promise you will have never tasted anything like these tomatoes. If your standard homegrown tomatoes are excellent, these are superb. What is incredible is you could travel all over WNY, and you still won't find these. Urban Roots Heirloom Tomatoe Sale is the only place I know to find them anywhere in the region.

I don't understand the need to trash a group for wanting to bring neighborhood retail into an underserved community. I stopped by the sale a couple of weeks ago and happened to hear a number of smiling neighborhood residents thanking those running the show and saying how happy they were that someone was doing something productive with the vacant lot.

I would like to second that, and say how happy I am happy to have a group of residents working together for the betterment and beautification of ANY city neighborhood. And I can't lay blame on this group of people for happening to live on the west side.

So to the bunch of snobs that volunteer to set up a tent in a vacant lot and sell plants to their neighbors at cost -- keep up the good work!

Harvey,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Many of the points you and others make are well taken.

when did I become...,

You seem to have missed my point. I didn't have a problem with the concept (i.e. self-started neighborhood beautification) so much as questionning how it was implemented. My concern is more of how this impacts an already existing (and struggling) market. Rather than viewing this as an attempt to try to establish a new Clinton-Bailey market on the West Side, Harvey and the others have pointed out the neighborhood aspect to Urban Roots and other distinctions that set the two markets apart.

Thanks again for telling me more about the Garden Center.

BR