Buffalorising has been redesigned.

on a bare strip of ocean front...yes, to augment a small town in the deep south or west coast...yes, a tourist trap such as orlando...fine, but within reach of a city...any city and one that is struggeling to survive?... pure rubbish...
difficult enough to get the suburban people into the city corridor, without building them a "disneyesque" [spelling?] city at their doorstep. anyway, as you say, it will probably be fought tooth and nail to preserve the area and loose, this is one bit of development that I personaly would be and am against.

How very Tampa and cigar roller-esque is this? Ybor City...down South - yes...in Anherst - laughable.

First the suburbs are railed for their unurban design. Now that they are going to give it a try, they are scolded for not looking to the city for their needs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What will the poor Galleria Mall do when a Tampa-esque strip mall tries to woo its tenants ;) By the way, did Harley Davidson even consider looking into the city for its new multi-million dollar showroom?

It's only a matter of time before the Buffalo burbs got these developments. I'm content with them as long as they are not built on the outter reaches of the exurbs and don't add to sprawl. At least they won't be as ugly as the existing shopping-hells on NFBlvd or Transit.

Maple road in Amherst is well within the established metro... not really adding to sprawl, so they should go for it.

dt --- fasten your seat belt, because the Galleria Mall is pursuing a very similar remake of the west side of its facility, extending from the food court entrance toward the vacant Bon Ton property and even utlizing a portion of the ramp which straddles Galleria Drive. I've gotten a sneak preview of the plans and let me tell you they are very exciting.

I know that the pro-Buffalo, pro-downtown participants on this site will be howling in disgust at yet another retail coup for the 'burbs. Hey, I'm with ya all the way on this and want to see stores downtown as much as anyone, but Cheektowaga's Galleria Mall is a reality and we have to accept and deal with that reality accordingly.

And speaking of downtown, this sort of "lifestyle" retail/residential mix would work totally well in the new Canal Harbor neighborhood at the foot of Main Street. Are RFP's being circulated as we speak?

Awesome - just build it, my credit card is waiting!!!

I'm sure it will be very popular, but I don't like it because I feel as though the suburbs suck up all the name-brand retail opportunities from the city...the metro area can only sustain a few "Borders" or "Banana Republics"...and they're in the burbs.

I would love for some of these stores to be located in the city - thereby drawing suburbanites downtown to shop...but I know there are several reasons why retailers won't consider that an option...at least right now. The more developers put these shops on the doorstep of the bulk of Erie County's wealthy class, the less reason they have to venture into the city to shop, eat, etc...

Know the area, know the clientele. I really don't think it will suck the life out of downtown retail. The people who will patronze this thing will be taking from Eastern Hills mall. It will also be a convenient shopping destination for all those poor travelers stuck in the hotel hell on Millersport. The shoppers who like the city will not be enticed by this thing.
I live on Grand Island, and I personally would go once out of curiousity, but after that, it would be back to Buffalo. It's more than just shops, it's the atmosphere.

mattB: If you want the name-brand retail opportunities in the city, there is only one way to do it. Show the chains that the demographics are there. If they are the chains will come if they are not there the chains will not come. Amherst is not taking chains away from the City, the City does not have the upscale chains because the City does not have upscale demographics.

Only economic development can change that... not whining.

Yeah....whatever.

I keep wondering why the vision/realestate people aren't taking advantage of ALL of the downtown Buffalo/Main St area, including the Treater District & Chip, and turn IT ALL into an existing "life style" center! To me, it already IS a lifestyle center!

I attended the Smart Growth seminar of these "LS" centers and the only one sited as successful, out of 5 or 6, was the one in Columbus, OH. I couldn't help thinking that the only reason that one was successful was because it was the home of Leslie Wexner's Limited brand & therefore a labratory for their retail concepts.

The elements discussed for a successful life style center were things like live/work facilities, access to cultural facilities, mass trans, great architectural design, etc. These are ALL elements that already exist downtown. This is building upon the things suburbanites come to the city for such as Shea's, Irish Theater,Rotary Rink, CEPA; cultural institutions that don't really exist in the burbs. The turn around could be done by some vision/smart planning, rather than a suburban fantasy that will become yet another abandoned parking lot in 10 years when the NEXT new gimmick is built. This doesn't seem like business development or "progress" to me, it seems more like construction jobs!

Wouldn't building upon these existing amenities makes more sense than starting from scratch with these behemoths? Where is that "out of the box" thinking everyone keeps talking about? This is "more of the same."

Are the palm trees included?

Shopitall - you hit the nail on the head. Buff is a life style center. The beast they want to build is a mall that wants to be a lifestyle center. When you shop, do you want the atmosphere of downtown, or do you want a fancy box with a Gap and starbucks?

Look at the downtonwn housing market. We have the adaptive reuse lofts and apartments, we have the historic West Village. Now, look at SoHo and the West Village areas of NYC. They have the branded retail.

Let's look at marketing to these businesses with the housing stock and the wait lists we have for downtown housing. I can't begin to tell you how often we, at the West Village, are contacted regarding apartments for rent and homes for sale. We keep the names and contact info in case something comes up. I know the new lofts and apartments have these lists as well.

We need to partner, folks. All the developers, new residents, and the continuous community of the West Village. Anyone care to sign on?

god i hate benderson development

you can't possibly hate benderson as much as i do^^ i spent seven years in one of their super awesome mobile home communities.

as far as the LS center goes. let 'em give it a shot. its better than the miles of endless parking lot that is typical of suburban shopping.
besides when they realize their target market won't get out of their car for six months out of the year due to weather, we'll be left with a vacant shell of a fake downtown in the burbs.

I don't see this "lifestyle center" (Who invented that stupid term anyway?) as a threat to downtown. The people who would shop at such a cheesy place are the same misinformed people who are already afraid to come downtown after dark because they think they'll be mugged, raped, or shot on their way from a parking lot to the theater. They're the ones who scurry to the Kensington Expwy or the I-190 immediately after work because they don't see what the city has to offer, just the problems it has to overcome. This so-called Lifestyle Center (Sorry, I just can't type that silly phrase without laughing.) won't take anyone out of downtown; it will just cater to the people already living in the hinterlands.

Even the best examples of urban developement (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco) have this type of development in thier burbs. The city deveopers just have to sell "cool", that is the advantage over anything in the burbs. For you Benderson bashers you have to at least give them props for the Hampton on Delaware. That building was an eyesore. It is now a great renovation with ground floor commercial and hovers around 100% occupancy all the time. I do not think this project hurts downtown at all. I still think Delaware between Chippewa and Edward is ripe te be our urban retail core. Parking, restaurants, hotels and residential already exist. The buildings have great retail potential.

Lifestyle center????? I don't think so. Not when the participants in this "lifestyle" have to DRIVE rather than stroll and the "streets" (aka parking lot) go dark all night. What a joke. I grew up in 'burbs pre- and post Blvd Mall. Now, despise when I have to drive in that area (yesterday, on Sheridan… gave me the heeby-jeebies!)

shopitall says - "I keep wondering why the vision/realestate people aren't taking advantage of ALL of the downtown Buffalo/Main St area, including the Treater District & Chip, and turn IT ALL into an existing "life style" center! To me, it already IS a lifestyle center!"

Face the facts honey the development follows the money not the other way around. Until downtown can deliver a resident population of at least 10,000 residents with a household income of at least $75,000 per annum the retail will not come.

You cannot pompously wish it into being. To deride those that choose to live in the suburbs only makes you look misinformed. If Amherst is the choice for upper income family's to live it is also natural that it would be the choice for the stores that cater to them to locate. You cannot badger people into shopping downtown. People will shop where it is most convenient for them not where it is desired by you. You should quit harping on the success of the suburbs and try to create some City success. There is no doubt that both areas would prosper for retailers if both areas prospered in household income.

Why isn't there a cool blogsite called "Amherst Rising"? Because that would be as dull as the sea of asphalt that suburb has become.

Sally

Thanx for the condescending "reality" check!

I've lived in both burbs (for a few years) and hyper-urban (for many years). I'll take urban anyday.

No need for your tone and bad attitude just because I don't validate your suburban life.

i find it somewhat sad that if something like this was proposed for one of those strip-mall filled stretches of Delaware or Elmwood, people would be all over it, but just because it's in Amherst it's suddenly "cheesy and laughable". there's nothing wrong in wanting to make a dead, ugly stretch of land more attractive. guess what? people live in suburbs (shocking, i know). and they will shop in a location that is most convenient to them and a location that has stores that fits their needs. if i had a choice between going to galleria or downtown (both about the same distance from me), i would certainly rather choose downtown IF there was actual retail that suited my needs. In the meantime, we have to work with what we have.

And please, don't think that just because people live in the suburbs it means that they embrace the strip mall lifestyle or even enjoy looking at it. unfortunately most of the residents don't really have a choice in what gets built in commercial areas. they patronize these malls because that's all there is. build a "life style center" or whatever you want to call it, and people will most likely say "thank god, it's not ugly!" and please - it's mixed use! we should be thrilled that the burbs are finally catching on, not slam them .

never thought i'd actually be defending the suburbs here, but oh well...

Sally /Shopitall. We are actually talking apples and oranges here. The burbs are fine for people who wish to live there. Same with the city. One thing I cannot stand are the elitists on either side. Neither one can really exist on its own. The city will eventually have what it needs to bring in the retail. The populace was there before, and it will return if things improve, which I think will happen.

Let them build what they wish. It ain't my cup of tea, but I won't hammer anyone who wants this.

I live in the City but thanks for the assumption, we all know what that makes you.

i agree 100% MD. the burbs will be the burbs. but there is an entirely different market to be had right in the city. the buildings and infrastructure are there and ready on that stretch off Delaware. we just need to connect the feet on the streeet trends/demographics, the developers, and the potential businesses.

looks like it's time for part 2 of the BRO Retail meeting.

I make no assumptions. I live in the burbs but need the city.
Does that make me a hypocrite?
And I grew up by the gun club. Nothing like driving to church on a Sunday morning to the sounds of gunfire.

Marylin R
I have been thinking about marketing and how it need to be done. I am interested signing on.

Sally,

Nothing annoys me more than people who read comments with such a jaded attitude that they interpret things that aren't even written.

I'm sick of know-it-alls like yourself making negative and stupid comments in response to several postings on this site. This is a blog where people are supposed to express their feelings on topics...it's not urban development school or a contest to see who knows the most. What's worse, you pointed out the obvious...who doesn't know that demographics keep retail out of downtown?

Personally, I feel sorry for people like you b/c you've taken advantage of this whole online anonymity thing and spun it into a ridiculous power trip. If people in Buffalo like yourself were actually as aggressive in person as they are online, I'd move despite my love for this city.

Whether or not people annoy, you will still find some validity in their statements. You must admit the majority of news concerning developement outside the city limits is met with a significant amount of derision by those who comment here. Not all development takes away from the city.

So let's keep our comments focused on the subject, and spend a little less time cranking at each other.

Hard Rock Cafe - Amherst, New York - "Save the Planet From Stupidty" has a great ring to it. Can't wait to sip my Long Island Ice Teas in style....speaking of style, lifestyle is one word that she never be used..it's idiotic when you think about it. My lifestyle is better than yours....what the hell does that mean?

it's better than every other shopping strip in suburban WNY. fictional urbanism is still worse than real urbanism, but those are two different things. At least Benderson is starting to get it. Perhaps it will benifit UB by providing shopping near campus. I hate more than anything that the campus is where it is, but it isn't moving anytime soon. This kind of development is better than what's been done to date.

I've been to three of these places: one in suburban Columbus, one in suburban Cleveland and one in suburban Chicago. They are all soul-less and surreal. I call them Stepford Wives Malls. Anybody been to Disney's development, Celebration, Florida? Same thing. Fake, fake, fake.

This one will turn the Boulevard Mall and the Eastern Hills Mall into two more Appletree malls. And it'll damage the Galleria, too.

Not that I care about any of 'em, 'cause I make about 2 trips a year north of Kenmore Avenue and east of Main Street.

iv'e got an idea....FREE advise here Benderson....Build this on the waterfront!!!!!!

This will only contribute to the piss poor development that Benderson has left as a legacy to us. I hope that company rots in hell in florida...and believe me you are not missed here in allentown.

Hey...that Borders in the pic is from Tempe Arizona...home of Arizona State University.

Rhode Island Boy sounds like a typical resident of the Elmwood Elitist Villiage ...Your loss because Kenmore and East Buffalo have a lot to offer...don't make me prove it

Hey bigboy -- I think the name "RhodeIslandBoy" is a reference to the poster's residence, and not the state. (and if that's still not ringing any bells, you really don't know Buffalo) A lot of unfortunate assumptions get made in BR comments, but it's especially bad when the person is practically TELLING you where they live in the post and you make an assumption that they live somewhere else.

When I graduate from UB, I hope to make it north of Kenmore about twice a year, too. If patronizing city businesses rather than suburban ones makes me an 'elitist' in someone's eyes, I'm fine with it.

hey bigboy:

My property taxes are $600 a year. I don't live in the Elmwood Village.

But please do expound on what exactly I should be getting in my car and coming to Kenmore for. I'm intrigued.

I'm able to walk or ride my bike to everything I need to get to.

Elitist is MY word! C'mon there is something to do everywhere. It's just a case of whether or not you want to walk, bike, or pay 3 bucks a gallon to get somewhere.

Pauldub,

I agree that everyone's statements deserve recognition and respect. I always stay on point and I don't like making things personal...but in this case, I simply had to try to put Sally in her place b/c of her negative responses. If I want to have someone tell me I'm wrong and provide me with "the truth" about development and what the city needs to do to bring retail in, I'll go to the source....not Sally. I just don't think there is any place for superior attitudes on this site.

Getting back to topic, I will admit that pro-suburbs people won't find a lot of objective discussion from myself or others on the site - Buffalo Rising in theory could be about the entire region...but I've always interpreted it to be a site that places most of the focus on the city.

I'm sure that plaza will mainly cater to people in the immediate vicinity, and draw more business away from the suburban malls than the city...but I still think that any suburban development certainly doesn't help the city, and Buffalo needs all the help it can get these days.

I know the city and the suburbs are two entirely different environments, i.e. drawing different shoppers/crowds...but maybe that's the whole problem. Many other cities around the country have expanded their boundaries...and people are far less aware of where the city ends and the suburbs begin. In Buffalo, its like crossing a moat.

First of all, this post breaks Buffalo Rising's unwritten rule to focus only on City issues and properties. So, forgive me if this seems like a cheap shot at the suburbs, but "fancy strip mall" underscores that fact.

Secondly, I don't understand why die-hard city residents who are passionate about only patronizing city businesses would, frankly, care what Benderson puts in on Maple Road. If you ain't gonna go there, don't get worked up about it.

Thirdly, I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that any urbanesque design brought into Amherst - even if it's fake and phony and everything else - is good. Maybe it wakes people in Amherst up to the fact that not everything has to be a vacant Vix Plaza looking eyesore. Maybe it prompts people to start looking at Main in Williamsville and suggesting some traffic calming curb extensions or roundabouts.

The suburbs aren't going to go away just because they offend your sensibilities. They're there.

One of the first things that creeped me out when I moved here was the misguided, ignorant hatred I heard spewed at the CIty by suburbanites.

Too bad that road runs both ways.

Matt - Thank you for a rational reply. Even though I don't live there, the city holds a special place in my heart. It is the heart and soul of western New York. This is the home of our museums, galleries, and a vibrant lifestyle that we all need. I also get frustrated when people get hostile. But that is usually borne of frustration with the condidion that our city fell into. I agree that a significant part of the problem is that we did not expand the city, we insulated it with an outer ring.
Hopefully people will start to realize that we can work as a larger community. And a significant part of this will happen when the politicians start working together instead of competing for business, fighting for bits and pieces of tax dollars, and generally putting their own agendas before that of the entire region.

As for that moat, My son moved out last year to North Buffalo. He said there is no way he will ever move north of Kenmore ave. According to him, I am crazy to live where I do.
But that does not stop him from visiting and cleaning out my fridge...

Sally--I respectfully disagree with your reduction of the city to a zone of "no money." There is still la lot of private money in Buffalo and a market for people who want nice stores. And the places we are talking about are hardly "upscale." The average income in the Delaware district would support some of them, and I believe there are approximately 15,000 people in that district. Retailers often have outdated or misinterpreted demographic information, and I'm afarid a lot of them are just clueless about Buffalo.

Anyway--the sour "face reality" pose always drags the conversation down. I think Buffalo needs more dreamers than naysayers.

Pundit:

B I N G O

Imagine if ANY developoment co. wanted to build this type of complex in BUFFALO!!! The PEACE BRIDGE would be built before this idea would even come out of litigation. Too many wanna be architects, preservationists, obstructionists,environmental studies, traffic studies, study studies... get the picture??

Eric;

I am not a naysayer, but before you can dream of downtown retail you must focus on residential development. If not your dreams will be forever that, just dreams. What is sickening about some of the posts on this site is the jealousy that city dwellers seem to have against the suburban counterparts. It is even more sad when you realize that most of the city dwellers are Democrats, which is supposed to be the party of inclusion and acceptance.

Sally - I agree with you on that. People that live there will shop there.
I think more people would be interested in moving to the city if it wasn't portrayed in such a negative way by the media. The good things happening in the city rarely get the attention they deserve. But at least the viewpoints here (including yours) have shown me that there is life in the city, and it looks worth joining. Maybe my kid is right and I should move there.

Rhode Island guy, I’m envious…I also remember the days of living in my parents basement. As far as Kenmore is concerned; Snakeland, Westfest, Mike’s Subs etc etc etc

Well. We are talking by UB Amherst. I think that is a great place for this kind of development. So bland out there, no? We should make sure, that UB Amherst students have the accessibility and knowledge of our amazing city which is just a few short minutes away, I know when I went to law school out there countless people never even CONSIDERED venturing downtown. (Outside of Chippewa)

Build a shopping center, it will be built regardless and instead....perhaps we should devote our energy to selling the fine points of Buffalo to the people in the burbs around UB Amherst instead of arguing all the time.

I just shared with a Rochester blogger the images of the UB South campus vs the bland UB Amherst campus she recently blogged about... ANYTHING to spice up that area, to me, would be nice.

http://www.junkstorecowgirl.com/archives/002942.php#comments

Are we not seeing an infusion of new residential life in downtown? Doesn't that bode well for future retail? Yes, we need more for critical mass, but there's also a point at which early retail development can lure MORE people downtown. So, yeah, some companiues take the risk and make a bet...put our store there and maybe even more people will see how fresh and convenient and pleasant it is to live downtown. The conventional stance is to wait for the demand and then supply it. A bolder, albeit riskier, approach is to create a product or destination and let demand grow around it.

"A bolder, albeit riskier, approach is to create a product or destination and let demand grow around it."

What greater reward would come from the increased risk?

None, that is why it has not happened yet and will not happen until critical mass is reached. And as nice as the new residential conversions are downtown we are still only talking hundreds of new residents, not thousands.

Baltimore MD has only now reached 10,000 units in it's downtown core and is just starting to attract national retailers. There is a report posted on the ssc web site that details the demographics required by most national retailers and downtown Buffalo is still years away from reaching that critical threshold.

Hundreds per year = Thousands over several years.

...Duh

Here we go again...another BR post becoming a degenerate site for the bashers and the uninformed. And by the way its called the "Walden Galleria" not the Galleria Mall. The galleria mall doesn't exist. A galleria is something that is supposed to be a little more upscale and comprehensive than a traditional mall but it seems that people in metro Buffalo don't get that. But then again Janet Snyder (beauty queen daughter

Enough of us have been to the Galleria (da ghonorrea mall, thank you) to know that it's just a mall. Sticking some opaque skylights in the roof doesn't quite equal the soaring, glass roofs of Italian gallerias. There are real gallerias, and this ain't one of them.

Anyhow, Amherst will eventually be sorry that sites such as the 30 acre Gun Club weren't grabbed as park land. Once it's built upon, it is gone....

They definitely should take that bullet-riddled parcel on the north side of bucolic, 5-lane, 40-MPH Maple Road and turn it into another park.

Because I can't think of anywhere better to enjoy a stroll through nature than by the light of the silvery Pepsi Center, in the shadow of the majestically beautiful brown brick construction of UB North.

To Pauldub & others: Buffalo is not a "lifestyle center" and should be embarrassed to claim the label. Buffalo is an authentic city, thank goodness. Until the suburbs embrace gridded streets, mixed use multi-story buildings, low-income housing, modest house lots, public transportation, and reduced parking they will always be suburbs and not cities, and their shopping centers will only be shopping centers. No matter what trendy label and architectural doodads you apply.

Before folks howl in outrage, please notice that I did not say that suburbs SHOULD embrace these things, because clearly they don't want to. Come the end of cheap oil, they may realize that it is in their best interest to do so, but I don't expect to convince anyone of that until gas gets over $5 a gallon.

Question for mattb & others: Why do we want national retailers coming into Buffalo and crushing the distinctive businesses painstakingly created and operated by our friends and neighbors? If I wanted to be surrounded by national retailers, I'd move to Niagara Falls Blvd.

I've been to a number of these "lifestyle centers". The city I lived near before moving to Buffalo has one at the very outskirts of the downtown area. It brings in a ton of money, created a ton of jobs and serves a clientele that would not be shopping in the downtown area anyways. I think it's an excellent idea. The location is prime. A short walk from UB will guarantee a steady stream of commerce for years to come.
I really don't get the naysaying from y'all. The people that will shop there are the people who have been shopping along Maple, Niagara Falls Blvd, and Transit Road for years. They don't come downtown anyways.
That being said, it's too bad they don't try and create another one, utilizing the Main Street "cobblestone" area, considering what a vast wasteland that is.

Aren't you all sick of the city-vs.-suburbs argument? Isn't it obvious and tired by now?

Personally, I think this would work better than the old K-Mart on Delaware Avenue, and wouldn't close down Elmwood Avenue, but might give the Mawl a run for its money. Second, I really wish green space would stay green space there in the land of sprawl. But these aren't about how city-dwellers are cooler than suburbanites. *I* prefer the city. Others prefer the suburbs. There are positives and negatives about each. What we DO know for certain is that suburn around an empty dying shell won't last long, and a vibrant city keeps its suburbs vibrant too. Our mutual prejudices DO NOT HELP US.

So knock it off.

I like Portland's Urban Growth Boundary. I like the idea of controlling development, because it hasn't hurt Portland's growth or economy, has kept real estate at a premium and has forced everyone to use land wisely. IT has also preserved their fertile land and greenspace. And in a time where even the most staunch oli-men, er, I mean our President and his dvisors are admitting that there's a little greenhouse problem, I think we should be thinking about the environment not because we like yogurt and hug trees, but because none of us will be comfortable for long on earth if we don't, in any city or suburb.

Development is not only an urban planning issue, it's also environmental.

I personally would love to see retail development downtown, I would hope the future would be the main chippewa area of downtown. But any one who has a passion for downtown knows the first developer to suggest banana republic, express, gap, abercombie, old navy, starbucks, or any other national chain the preservationist and the non development addicts, you know, the same ones who were protesting a great hotel development last week on forest and elmwood will be out in droves saying not in this decaying urban core we need to prevent national chains (local ideas only fly in this city.) If its trendy, and suburban its not welcome in Buffalo according to these people. Lets encourage our politians to bring retail down town.

Now to shift the topic to why is the Harley store in orchard park not going downtown by the bass pro. This is a shame. Here is a copy of the letter I wrote to Congressmen Higgins please everyone rally around this:

Dear Congressman Higgins,

I just wanted to share with you my displeasure when reading the Buffalo News on Saturday March 25, 2006. The headline read "Harley dealer plans new store in Orchard Park." I do not understand why the government leaders did not contact John Brinkworth immediately to build this store and tourist destination in downtown Buffalo by the proposed Bass Pro. I was just visiting Ormond Beach, FL where Harley constructed a facility that brings in thousands of people every year. This would work well in creating critical mass for the inner harbor in conjunction with the casino, bass pro, the arena, and the Erie Canal. I am contacting you because I admire your hard work and success in a relatively short period of time. I urge to look in to this matter ASAP. Thank you for your devotion to the Buffalo Waterfront and keep up the good work.

Thank you,

I would love to see this development downtown where it belongs. They would make more money just off visitors buying harly T-shits let me know what you think.

GO, BIGBOY!!!! You did, however, omit The Bachelor's Den...RIP.

You guys are all so silly.
I'd like something like this in Lockport. We got nuthin'.

Oh Sally, don't be so grim about our beautiful city. There are, from the last time I read the statistic, almost 2,000 people living in the downtown core. And more coming. Allentown and much of the Delaware District add several thousands more, and are both accessible to downtown retail, so you have that audience too.
I don't care about this lifestyle center--the one I know well in Florida has constant trouble with tenants and much turnover---but the cynicism about the city here is so unproductive. Of course something like this could work in the city, if we wanted it. But what's the point of saying "no, no" it's not possible? if you feel that way--fine, but what does saying it add to the energy for change and growth?
Let businesses take the risk--let them create their own demand--that IS a viable way to create money and attract more dwellers.

I can see this setting the tone for infill residential and commercial development on the eastside, westside and southside.

I can see this having an impact on the outer harbor, inner harbor and cobblestone district

Thiss really sets the tone for what people want. We want the density and walkability of our city neighborhoods and contrary to the architectural elites....we like a mixture of period buildings

Its to bad that development in Cheektowaga never got off the ground. It was a similar concept. Now Cheektowaga will follow the decay of Buffalo's eastside...even as Buffalo's eastside is experiencing a new found vitality and awareness.

Ok South Buffalo...time to put your nose to the grindstone and contribute to Buffalo's economic momentum.

I think we have beaten this to death. So much for lifestyle centers,elitists, suburb and city bashing. The weather will be nice tomorrow, so let's all go outside at lunch and enjoy. At least we can all agree that spring in western New york is worth celebrating no matter where you live.

Enjoy.

There are more cheap shots on this post than in a South Buffalo bar on St. Patrick's Day!!!

Where is the concept of R-E-G-I-O-N-A-L-I-S-M? Let's be honest, places such as Amherst and Williamsville are crucial to the health of the City of Buffalo. Urban hipsters and suburban soccer dads have a mutual interest in seeing both realms prosper.

The mean spirited nature of this and similar posts is old. The negative WNY spirit, unfortunately, appears to be alive and well. Can't we disagree on policy without being disagreeable?

I doubt few if any of the posters on this site have risked a single dime of their own money in a small business or development in this region. It's easy to be critical of others when you don't do a damn thing. Where is Harvey G when you need him?

You know...

I've read the comments throughout the day...

Amherst isn't going away...
Orchard Park isn't going away...
UB North isn't going away...
_______ suburb isn't going away...

I too was surprised at BR picked this suburban story to focus on...

But I can see WCP's point....

You want urban? Travel a couple miles down the Millersport to the University District...

In a way...this is how developers in the burbs will try to counter the new found interest in urban living...they focus on trends and what the consumer wants... Give the people what they want...

But as BIA Moderator Buffalo Lady pointed out it ain't authentic urban living...

Buffalo has its place....let the burbs do what they will do....Buffalo is better off without a Starbucks on every corner...Buffalo will never be Amherst....and the people who love the city and its unchainable diversity will still relish what Buffalo has to offer...you can't can't recreate it...

barkenhoff, nothing is a short walk from UB north, except a parking lot. A short drive, yes. And in lieu of any comments made from "monday morning architects," on any future projects, I'd ask that you direct your anger and hatred at the ellicott complex. I mean, my god. I'm too young to know about any opposition to this when it was actually built (if there was any) so if someone wants to rip into this abhorrent design I'd be happy to read about it and probably laugh.

UB North and the rest of the SUNY schools built at that time came out of university architecture designed to keep students from congregating. There were armed protests at the time and the administrators didn't want to see this perpetuated. But rather than think the violence was an outgrowth of WHAT was being protested, they thought it was a danger for these crazy fuzzy headed students and their liberal ideas.

Now we are left with cement deserts for our universities, and the reasons for it have nearly disappeared into the mists, and we think this is just ordinary architecture.

Rifle Dude, I think you'd be surprised at how many people have invested in businesses and homes in this city. I'd say it's a self-selecting group, since people who care enough to wade through and post on these blogs often have some investment in a topic, emotional or otherwise.

Nue Buffalo - good call with the Bachelor's Den, miss those $4 pitchers and tasty wings as well as their slogan " good girls go to heaven, bad girls go to the Bachelor's Den"...

God Bless Kenmore and long live Talas, ten speeds with the handle bars turned up , feather cuts for guys and ankle length dungeree jackets for the girls

as far as the lifestyle center planned for Amherst...is there a waterpark included in the design?

I'm a proponent of urban design whether its in the city or the suburbs so I have to say good for Amherst. I wish more suburban areas would use the principles of urbanism that make the city so great then maybe there wouldn't be as much hatred for those areas as I'm seeing in the previous posts.

Green - I don't recall students congregating being the prime reason for the North Campus. It was more a case of cheap, open land vs What do we tear down to put it in the city. Student unrest at UB was not that bad compared to other schools. As a matter of fact the one demonstration I went to was about half UB, half local high school students. And it wasn't that big.

Although I imagine that unrest was in the minds of the planners, I don't think that was the prime mover in sticking the school out in what was at that time the boondocks.
THinking back that far makes me feel old...

Are you kidding me with some of these posts? Here's an idea for you folks. Set up your own development company and walk the talk. You be the investor who makes the difference in the scheme.

How much critical mass is there in Cheektowaga? Yet it is home to our most exclusive retail center.

So called "smart growth" centers in a currently empty field is stupid in Amherst or anywhere else in a region that is losing population. If building is needed (is it?), build where there is already an area with residences, shopping, or offices.

In-fill the parking lots and the malls and strip plazas that are already on Transit, Maple, Sheridan Drive, etc. Build 3 or 4 story mixed use developments. NARROW those roads and build at sidewalks - there will be fewer lanes needed because not as many people will need to walk.

I can see this setting the tone for infill residential and commercial development on the eastside, westside and southside.

I can see this having an impact on the outer harbor, inner harbor and cobblestone district

Thiss really sets the tone for what people want. We want the density and walkability of our city neighborhoods and contrary to the architectural elites....we like a mixture of period buildings

Its to bad that development in Cheektowaga never got off the ground. It was a similar concept. Now Cheektowaga will follow the decay of Buffalo's eastside...even as Buffalo's eastside is experiencing a new found vitality and awareness.

Ok South Buffalo...time to put your nose to the grindstone and contribute to Buffalo's economic momentum.

What it really does is give new developers a blue print for infill residential and commercial development in our "Old Urban areas"

I think Jennifer hit the nail on the head when she drew the parallel between this development and its proximity to UB North. Perhaps Benderson is building something fake, unauthentic and disingenuous to appeal first and foremost to the downstate -- Long Island, NYC, NJ -- constituency that studies at UB, and their parents staying at the nearby hotels? Perhaps they don't envision or even care that anyone else from the city or the immediate burbs is attracted to it? Sure, they and their money will be welcome too, but methinks Benderson had the student and faculty body of UB North top of mind when conceiving and proposing this... this... thing.

And Sally, I have to correct you about Baltimore and it "just starting to attract national retailers." The retailers were there, in the Inner Harbor facilities, when I lived there in 1983 -- 23 years ago! Downtown retail is hardly a new thing in Baltimore.

I just had to post regarding the Amherst campus.

Those who touched on the activism and protests are RIGHT ON THE MARK!

My mom worked for the university administration starting in the early 60's and I would often visit - and witnessed first hand the riots - not protests - that happened because of the Vietnam War - as well as was a "fly on the wall" to a few "choice" meetings of the then UB Administration (who pays attention to a little kid?).

The truth of the matter is this:

Republicon Governor Nelson Rockerfeller was so disgusted with all this "liberal democratic" student protest - and all the destruction that had taken place to the BRAND NEW NORTON STUDENT UNION building on the Main Street campus, that he vowed to NEVER AGAIN create a space on a SUNY campus where ANY students could congregate and potentially protest like they just did then.

This was done at the same time that he created the "Albany Mall". It served two purposes: 1) eliminate the "unsighlty black neighborhoods" that were betweent the Capitol Building and Governor's Manion and 2) "bequeath" to NYS his "legacy" of and edifice that would be his "mark".

The design AND location of the Ameherst campus was INTENTIONALLY designed to be a rabbit warren of non-descript small, uninviting places that would INHIBIT any gathering of students.

It was located FAR AWAY from any administration buildings and military research facilities like those that existed on the Main Street campus.

That is also why they ELIMINATED any "student union" building on the Main Street campus and turned it into the Dental School.

The destruction was enormous - that original "Norton" had beautiful 80 foot long by 40 foot wide student lounges on two sides, filled with carpets, stereos, tv's, luxurious carpeting, etc. The "students" carted EVERTHING all off during the riots - rolled up the carpet and walked out the FRONT DOORS with it. Took all the beautiful furniture placed it in a pile and BURNED IT outside! Broke all the large 30 foot square windows. Spray-painted the beautiful mosaics and exotic hardwood paneling on the inside and out. Trashed the bowling alley in the basement, along with the other rec rooms. All the student organization offices, complete with office supplies, machines and furniture were also destroyed.

THAT is why Buffalo was "given" that Amherst campus. The REAL reason.

Buffalo never was even considered.

Same with the reasons for NOT extending the subway/rail line to the new campus. Keep "them" isolated and separated. These prejudices/excuses exist thru today.

These developments remind me of the movie The Truman show