Share, , , Google Plus, Reddit, Pinterest, StumbleUpon

Print

Posted in:

Scajaquada Expressway to become Boulevard

The results of last evening’s public meeting concerning the future of the Scajaquada Expressway turned out to be a bit different than I expected. In a surprise move, the NYS Department of Transportation (NYSDOT) actually did the right thing, and instead of thinking solely about the cars, they took into consideration the people.

Instead of recreating an expressway, the NYSDOT has opted to build a permanent 30mph boulevard, incorporating features for bikes and pedestrians. The NYSDOT also agreed to “theme it with the park”, according to Kerri Machemer, Founder of Parents of a Safe Delaware Park. “The DOT commissioner actually used the phrase ‘holistic approach’ when describing the plans,” Kerri said.

That’s incredible news considering that many proponents for a scaled back thoroughfare were skeptical about the NYSDOT’s ability to think along the lines of progressive urban planners, as opposed to the department that still pays homage to Robert Moses. 

“Governor Andrew Cuomo led the way on the  last spring when he ordered a speed limit reduction to improve safety for everyone who travels it,” said NYSDOT Commissioner Matthew J. Driscoll. “The State Department of Transportation is committed to further enhancing the safety of the corridor, working with the community to make the roadway fit into the historic park it traverses, and expediting the project so that construction can get underway.”

Moving forward, the public will be a part of the process. A series of public meetings will be held, and the comments generated from those meetings will be included in a Draft Environmental Impact Statement. In the meantime, the NYSDOT has already undertaken traffic calming measures that include:

  • The roadway was striped to narrow the travel lanes from 12 feet to 11 feet.
  • Crosshatching was installed on wide areas of the shoulders to provide additional visual cues to motorists
  • “Stop” signs were installed to replace “merge” signs at ramps
  • Temporary electronic flashing speed notification signs were installed.
  • Ironwood guiderail was installed along sections of the corridor in Delaware Park to further separate vehicle and pedestrian traffic.

Additional interim measures include:

  • Installing temporary gateway signs on each end of the corridor to provide a sense of entry.
  • Restriping and narrowing the westbound travel lanes on the east end of the corridor to calm traffic further.
  • Installing rumble strips in the eastbound travel lanes on the west end of the corridor to assess their effectiveness in calming traffic there.
  • Installing additional electronic variable message signs and speed indicators to reinforce the 30 mile per hour speed limit.  Moving them periodically will help ensure that motorists pay attention to them.
  • Installing permanent “Reduced Speed Ahead” signs with flashing beacons to provide advanced warning of the lowered speed limit. 
  • Initiating discussions with the City of Buffalo to explore the possibility of a separate project to improve safety at the intersection of Main St., Kensington Ave. and Humboldt Parkway.

The NYSDOT also mentioned that they would be tapping Heather SpornSr. Policy Advisor, NYSDOT, who headed up redesigned the West Side Highway. That alone says that there is a real interest to potentially do great things, instead of serving up the status quo. 

The next public meeting will be sometime in May. It is anticipated that shovels will be in the ground by 2018.

Photo: Joe Cascio

Written by queenseyes

queenseyes

Newell Nussbaumer is 'queenseyes' - Eyes of the Queen City and Founder of Buffalo Rising. Co-founder Elmwood Avenue Festival of the Arts. Co-founder Powder Keg Festival that built the world's largest ice maze (Guinness Book of World Records). Instigator behind Emerald Beach at the Erie Basin Marina. Co-created Flurrious! winter festival. Co-creator of Rusty Chain Beer. Instigator behind Saturday Artisan Market (SAM) at Canalside. Founder of The Peddler retro and vintage market. Instigator behind Liberty Hound @ Canalside. Throws The Witches Ball at The Hotel @ The Lafayette, and the Madd Tiki Winter Luau. Other projects: Navigetter.

Contact Newell Nussbaumer | Newell@BuffaloRising.com

View All Articles by queenseyes
Hide Comments
Show Comments
  • Gina Maria Littlebird

    why not rip it out completely and return it to park? Why leave the road at all?

  • OldFirstWard

    Oh boy, here comes 250 comments, and 50 Facebook one liners.

  • Joe Cardinale

    why even have transportation all together?

  • DanielCadzow

    Why are they only narrowing the lanes on the westbound side of the eastern section (east of Parkside)? There are densely packed neighborhoods on both sides. Doesn’t the neighborhood on the south side count too?

  • Joe Miner

    Why even breath air?

  • BeardedBuffalonian

    The one thing I really wish for is a tree lined median. Anything else to me really doesn’t matter.

  • Jim Leopard

    maybe they will do this to the Kensington and inbound 33…return it to what it once as!

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Yeah, actually they didn’t do the right thing. Instead of thinking about the need to get in and out of the city efficiently they took the emotional approach that so frequently grips journalists and they said lets burn it down and slow it to a crawl… Someone died, terrible yes? But lets think rationally for a second, most of the time when people die in an accident roads are not neutered… The driver should be held liable, but we should not all have to suffer for the mistake of one inept individual. It’s literally mind boggling that anyone thinks this line of action is in anyway a good idea. Bring it back up to 50MPH so we can effectively commute, the park has alternative more scenic avenues for bicyclists to take, they are a much slower mode of transportation anyway, not to mention their representation is a huge minority and a tiny fraction of actual consumers and commuters. The majority of constituents drive their cars and prefer efficient travel not hackneyed bike paths.

  • C_Angelo

    I think it is disappointing (but not unexpected) that the Scajaquada could not be eliminated entirely. That said, a parkway is a fair compromise. However, I do agree with and will echo previous posters who have said that the Elmwood and Delaware access ramps should be closed. Id include Main Street access ramps too. If only as a traffic calming measure…more local traffic should be focused on local streets…it will benefit the downgrade to a parkway and it will benefit local businesses by providing more potential patrons

  • Joe M LiButti

    The 198 is actually constantly plagued by accidents since it was never designed for speeds as high as have been posted. The changes have been discussed for years, but the most recent accident finally spurred action. 50 down to 30 only adds maybe 2 minutes to travel end to end. Not to mention it bisects a beautiful park,makes it a pain to get between the two sections by bike or foot, and wrecks the ambience with an ugly noisy highway.

  • Dawn Lewandowski

    I believe it always was a road, but it was a parkway like Bidwell or Lincoln.

  • Andrew Wilson

    Spot on josh

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Okay sure, but the 190 wrecks the ambiance of the beautiful Niagara River, but no one talks about getting rid of that, access to water ways is nice too, so why we have this enhanced desire to rid the city of the 198 is kind of ludicrous.

  • Ken Gardner

    I have to agree with Joe, it was designed as a park system ( one of the most beautiful in the Northeast ) by Olmstead… he would roll over in his grave if he’d seen what has become of it! I think a 30-35 mph parkway is the right answer… there are other higher speed routes in and out of downtown…

  • Marble Cover

    And what do you suggest as an alternate route to expedite traffic from one side of the city to the other?

  • Joe M LiButti

    Also no one’s suggesting we remove it entirely and again these changes are gonna add all of maybe 2 minutes to your commute.

  • David Steele

    This process is still very flawed and the people will buy into it because they are not taking a step back and looking at the bigger question. Here it is:
    Why is the state department of transportation designing a roadway through a city park?
    This is a city park that should be designed by and for the people of the City of Buffalo.  The city does not need a 4 lane 30 mile per hour road running through the park.  It does not need a road “themed” to the park.  It needs a park that does not have 4 lanes or 30 mile per hour traffic running through it.  Calling this monstrosity a boulevard does not negate the fact that the park will still be bisected by a still very wide very fast road.
    – This road needs to be put back to its original design.
    – The trench at Main Street needs to be filled in.
    – Humboldt PArkway needs to be restored up to the 33
    – Eliminate the viaduct section along the creek all the way to the river. Create a new people oriented parkway connection from Delaware Park to the Niagara River.
    These improvements are a no-brainer. Make your city a great place for the people who want to be there not a place to speed through.

  • David Steele

    why do we always need to expedite traffic?  Who says cars should always be able to move quickly at will and everything else be damned?  Where is that written that car travel must be convenient?

  • Joel Menter

    You saving 10 minutes on your commute versus the quality of life for people using and living near the park? Yeah, sorry.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Okay so instead of taking the 290 to the 190 to the 198 I can only take the 290 to the 90 to the 33 and have to go around from there because you have an arbitrary reason for a slower speed limit?

  • Joel Menter

    Nice vocabulary though.

  • skajack

    Why stop there – lets take out the Delaware “S curves” while we’re at it. It divides the Park as much as the Scajacuada.

  • Sure they are. Get rid of the I90. Realign it. Reconfigure the whole mess, and take the river and the lake front back for the cities of Buffalo and Black Rock. http://www.buffalorising.com/2015/06/the-black-rock-riverside-waterfront-deserves-transformational-planning/

  • New-ish Commenter

    The facebook comments are out of control.  Please, please stop linking them to the sight.

  • montusama

    I saw that all the time. I’m just waiting til we can’t afford it anymore.

  • Joel Menter

    Josh poor dude, you have to drive an extra 8 minutes. It’s not for an arbitrary reason, a little boy was killed you doofus.
    Stay in the suburbs, I don’t want you appreciating our parks anyway.

  • Except that the highway should have never been built through a world class park. Ever. Except that the highest and best use of the land, which is the standard of the law regarding land use and the Municipal and State authority and responsibility, well, that highest and best use is to return the park and the parkway to its original condition as one of the great masterpieces of City planning. That is simply the highest and best use for the city of Buffalo and its citizens, and the city of Buffalo and the people of Buffalo’s quality of life is not now, nor should it ever be, a secondary consideration to your commute.

  • Andrew Wilson

    If you think the portion of the 198 from Delaware to the 190 should be 30mph you obviously do not drive on it very often

  • OldHayesHall

    WTF are you even talking about?

  • blackolive

    David Steele
    They don’t see your comments on Facebook.  SMH

  • solonggone

    David Steele

    These improvements would all be great but calling them a no-brainer is silly.  

    You’re talking about a MASSIVE amount of money to implement each of those.  In case you did not realize, because it’s not your city, Buffalo or New York State is not busting at the seems with billions to spend.

  • Sabres00

    Unless they make it 2 lanes things will not change.

  • John M. Kubiniec

    Wonderful to hear this – it’s been a long time coming but glad they are finally doing something.

  • Michael Pinelli

    I hate driving to N Buffalo now… All for the 3 months out of the year that the park is crowded.

  • needIes

    You need to read a Jane Jacobs book. Urban highways are like cocaine, they make you feel liberated while you’re on them, but they’re rotting you from the core. 

    Furthermore, our city park isn’t your doormat. If you find it hard to commute, make the choice to live where it’s not difficult to commute. The city doesn’t owe everyone a highway from their driveway to their office.

  • Andrew Wilson

    ***a little boy was killed because a guy fell asleep driving. Could happen on any street bordering any park.

  • Kiernan Smith

    Josh Lawrence Krouse this alone justifies removal, this highway destroyed a world class park and for what? >10 minutes saved… I have never and will never understand the irrational defense of automobile commutes when it has been scientifically proven that they hurt the economy not help. Highways don’t bring people to cities, they only drain the city of their workforce and tax revenue at the cost of the well being of those who reside there. Yeah a kid died but this issue is about more then that, it’s about the people of the city of buffalo realizing that they’re better then letting the state walk all over them in the name of suburbia

  • solonggone David Steele this is a State and Federal cost. The Park and the Parkway were a National Treasure. You are also discounting the value of the park to the city’s economy if it were restored. Property values and increased development would generate a perpetual net gain in revenues for the city. People using the commercial streets more would also benefit the city. 

    http://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/10/28/vancouver-votes-to-erase-last-vestiges-of-freeway-system/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/realestate/commercial/a-highway-is-moved-and-development-follows-in-providence.html?smid=nytcore-iphone-share&smprod=nytcore-iphone&_r=0

    http://cloud.tpl.org/pubs/ccpe-econvalueparks-rpt.pdf

    http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/state/will-upstate-roads-get-parity-with-mtas-8-billion-20151017

  • Barbara Rohr

    Tolerating a slower speed is tough at first.. But I think it’s the right thing.. We will all get used to it in time

  • Gina Maria Littlebird

    There are multiple ways around the city to begin with. Dropping this to 30 has already made it the slowest route.

  • David Saunders

    Dawn yes, I think it used to be travesed by slow traffic such as horse and buggies and bicycles. I’m not completely sure.
    Marble why do we need to expedite traffic? Why can’t the traffic use the streets which have been laid out and worked for over 100 years.

  • Kiernan Smith

    Smart planning policies =

  • Gina Maria Littlebird

    I remember when they made it into the expressway, didn’t they tear down people’s houses?

  • Kiernan Smith

    Highway policies=

  • Kiernan Smith

    Where would you rather live?

  • ma1acha1

    Elephants in the room:
    1.  Buffalo traffic SUCKS!!!!!!!!  Antique un-synchronized lights, stops every 1/10 mile.  No wonder people ride bicycles – a bike can beat my car down Elmwood!!  It can ignore lights.  Drivers escape the streets onto the 198 EXPRESSWAY so they don’t have to crawl down city streets.  Saying “only 2 minutes” is 2 minutes on top of already 10 minutes wasted in useless traffic.  Stop stealing personal time.  Conservatively one could save 5 minutes a trip just by improving traffic controls.  Make them more efficient.  That 5 minutes adds up to an extra vacation each year.  Would you like an extra 40 hours a year to spend with your family or children?  How about 40 hours for the next ten years to do something else besides being stuck in traffic?  “Two minutes is too much!!”  Can I punch you in the face for just “2 more minutes”? 

    2.  “Safety”  I use quotes because if the guy was awake back in may we would just be talking about some selfish groups getting their way.  He never got charged with speeding or unsafe driving.  Stop using “Safety” as a Trojan horse to punish working people and push your agenda.  I didn’t see Sean Ryan come out with a campaign to stop narcoleptic drivers.  Current numbers of bicycle deaths or injuries on 198 = ZERO.  Let bicycles up there and someone will die or get hurt bad.  The bicycles don’t pay for written tests, road tests, registration, insurance, safety inspections to prove they are qualified to operate.  They have miles of paths and streets to ride besides the Scajacuada.  Why should we “share the road”  with them? 
    3.  History.  Olmstead designed the park in 1860 when people rode HORSES to work.  The population of Buffalo was 80 thousand then.  Its a 1/4 million now.  People don’t ride horses and work farther from home than you can ride a horse to.

    4.  “Other cities did it”  Research of cities where freeways were removed is comparing apples to oranges.  Milwaukee was a 1 mile incomplete spur that had low volume.  Plans to close the (Bronx) Sheridan expressway in NYC have failed due to business opposition.  The West Side highway in NYC collapsed.  It was damaged, unusable.  The Embacardero freeway in San Francisco was damaged by earthquake, unsafe.  It was only 1.2 miles and prevented development in the area.  Rochester closed the Inner Loop East but it was 2/3 of a mile.  It was a sunken section with 2 structurally unsound bridges.  6 acres of land were also opened up in Rochester.  So each example above was a shorter, lower volume, damaged span, or opened up area for development.  The 198 is longer, used heavily, not damaged, and all surrounding area is spoken for = no development.   

    Niagara Falls is the only example where the length compare to the 198.  Two miles of the Robert Moses is going down next to the gorge.  How about 2014 Niagara Falls population was 49,219.  Buffalo is 5 times that!!

  • Victor Kovacs

    If going 30mph for less than 3 miles ruins your commute you need to seriously work on your time management skills.

  • Kiernan Smith

    Andrew Wilson the ignorance is astounding… Does “any park” have a 50mph+ highway bordering it with a pedestrian path less then 100 feet away with no barrier in between? Come on man…

  • OldHayesHall

    ma1acha1  Buffalo traffic sucks? You’ve obviously never been to DC, NYC, Denver, Toronto, Chicago….compared to those places we don’t even have traffic.

  • Opuntia humifusa

    ma1acha1 What traffic?

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Joel Menter A little boy was killed not because of speed but because some inept individual drove despite having a serious medical issue that should have disqualified any sane person from driving… Speed is not the issue here.

  • Jerry Graves

    I’ll do my best to avoid this nonsense.Maybe we can all get bikes to travel.. At least make it at least 3 lanes in both directions.. One sad accident should not haved caused all this..40 is as slow as ‘ll go

  • Hundreds of homes and buildings were bought, then either relocated or destroyed, under imminent domain in the city’s share of the original freeway costs.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Kiernan Smith Let me know when the horse and buggy come back in style because then we’ll have no choice but to rip out the 198. Tommy Mason Do you know where I can buy a horse and buggy?

  • BuffalosFinest

    Let’s remove the 90, the 290 and the 190 while we’re at it and let’s all hold hands and walk everywhere together…no but on a serious note I like this move.  Great job DOT.

  • Victor Kovacs

    If you can’t follow the law how about you just keep your simple ass in Hamburg and stay out of our neighborhood.

  • Andrew Wilson

    I’m not super concerned about it changing, I just see it as an over reaction to lower the speed limit to 30 mph from Delaware down to the 190.. Seems a bit ridiculous. If they wanna do it from parkside to Delaware It doesn’t bother me.

  • Thank you for your endorsement of bad driving.

  • tjhorner1

    A little boy was killed because a guy fell asleep at the wheel, and there weren’t any guardrails to prevent the car from leaving the road.  Had nothing to do with speed.

    Drowsy driving accounted for 72,000 accidents and 800 fatalities in 2013.  Has nothing to do with the spee on the 198.  Just a convenient excuse…

    http://www.cdc.gov/features/dsdrowsydriving/

  • Jerry Graves

    glad too,very few do 30 now by the way, this was to be a road that moved traffic, not pedestrians

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    NIMBY’s the lot of you. (Not In My Back Yard). Anyway the argument wouldn’t occur along Niagara street or the 198, Niagara being one of the greatest river’s in the world (natural too), but we’ve obfuscated the view… Lets not hype Olmsted too much Kiernan Smith. This isn’t Central Park, and it will NEVER be. Because you know what there is too much NOT IN MY BACK YARD attitude about development here, and we will never get anything done in terms of actually developing desirable property around Delaware park even though NYC did it beautifully.

  • Andrew F Haertel

    Why not dig down 20 feet ( like parts of route 33) then build small bridges to walk across!

  • David Saunders

    But it was road that cut through a historical park. A road which it has been stated multiple times would not be built today. A road is about more than just moving automobiles, it’s about moving people in which ever form of transportation they may choose. Whether that be an automobile, a bicycle, walking, public transit, etc.

  • Joel Menter

    Andrew I’ve been living and driving on the 198 since the 90s, I went to school at buff state and worked at the Albright knox. I’m quite familiar with the area.
    It is a great move for the area and the quality of the park system. You’re lazy ass and your commute doesn’t outweigh that. Or a child’s life.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    People don’t like to dig much here, hence all of our above ground parking garages, it doesn’t make sense to me either…

  • Wise Profit

    solonggone David Steele The state DOT budget is already inadequate to the tune of billions per year. I find this to be a surprising and reasonable compromise. My biggest question is how long to finish the construction and what the heck are we going to do in the meantime? Other than those concerns I’m all for these changes.

  • Kiernan Smith

    Josh Lawrence Krouse just so you know this change is not an emotional response to a child’s death. This process has literally been going on for 20 years to remove the highway…. It has possibly been accelerated by his death but not solely driven by it

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Joel Menter A child didn’t die because of the speed joel. A child died because a person suffered a medical issue.

  • Andrew F Haertel

    Yep… They could keep the speed the way they want and know one gets killed! Oh wait that would make sense and we are in buffalo!!!!!

  • Joel Menter

    Josh he was killed because of the speed of the car. Besides that I find your insensitivity astounding. Don’t drive there if a beautiful, safer park offends you.

  • robins36

    These Facebook comments are by far the worst thing to ever happen to Buffalo Rising. And they don’t promote discussion (what little existed before) since commenters on Facebook don’t see any replies from the BR site. It’s just a bunch of people screaming into the void…

  • Facebook Commenters are Losers

    I couldn’t give two $ hits about the 198. I just came here to say that FACEBOOK COMMENTS ON BRO SUCK.

  • David Saunders

    A child died because of the poor design and planning. A highway should have never been built in the park.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    He was killed because the driver was on sleeping medication, or had a seizure, I’ve heard conflicting information, the speed of the car is not the issue. The issue is operator error bud.

  • paulbuffalo

    ma1acha1 
    That 5 minutes adds up to an extra vacation each year.  Would you like
    an extra 40 hours a year to spend with your family or children?
    Nonsense.  Those minutes do not add up.  They are not the equivalent of collected pennies in a piggy bank.  You can’t accumulate minutes by shaving minutes here and there.

    You reside in an evolving urban area.  Change happens.

  • Joel Menter

    Josh you are a urban development seer!

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    You think a child died because of the poor park design??? A CHILD DIED BECAUSE A DRIVER ACTED IRRESPONSIBLY AND SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER.

  • tjhorner1

    So, saw ANOTHER accident today at the Elmwood ramp to the 198.  This makes 3 in the past 4 weeks, and these are just the ones that I’ve personally seen.  

    The narrower lanes and stop signs are making this road LESS safe.  Curious as to why no one is talking about that, or the increase in accidents on the 198 from July 2015 to January 2016 compared to the previous year, before the changes were implemented.  

    You can’t mistake the fact that 50,000 cars a year use this road.  Either the road accommodates this many daily cars, or you shuffle these 50,000 cars somewhere else.  It sounds like DOT has made the decision to shift these 50,000 vehicles somewhere else, but do they know where these cars are going to go, and do they have supporting evidence that these roads where these cars will go can accommodate the additional traffic?  Do they know what the safety impacts are if this traffic reroutes itself.  

    You can’t make the decision to “right size” the 198 in a vacuum.  There will be a domino effect, and this effect has to be taken into consideration BEFORE investing $100,000,000. on restoring the 198 back to it’s 1950 version.

    While I do believe that the residents of Parkside deserve a nice quality of life, but if traffic is the knock on quality of life, you’re just shifting that “bad” quality of life to other neighborhoods with this project.  Sounds elitist to me…..

  • Kiernan Smith

    Josh Lawrence Krouse if you ever studied the history of Olmsted and the design of his parks the buffalo system is often regarded as being as important if not more so then Central Park and we have ripped it to shreds with this highway and the Kensington in the name of “progress” and now look how shitty the houses are on the Kensington and tell me the highway is good for buffalo

  • Jerry Graves

    It was built, maybe a mistake but built.. Plenty of streets to be used by pedestrians,who don’t try to cross the city for work, commerce etc. they got the whole Delaware park to walk, bike etc. With your logic lets drop all speed limits to 30 nationwide and shut down interstate commerce to build bike paths.

  • Andrew Wilson

    Joel let’s not get carried away bud, just having a conversation. I live in the elmwood village and have for years, also had a stint at buff state, drive the 198 every morning on the way to work. I’m not exactly sure what constitutes me as lazy. If *you’re going to throw insults make sure *you’re not a dumb ass.

  • Kiernan Smith

    Josh Lawrence Krouse it’s already happening!!! 90% of buffalo development is happening within a 1 mile radius of the park!!! Highways are not economic development that’s just a fact

  • robins36

    Captain Picard But thank goodness Josh Lawrence Krouse has another platform for his witty rejoinders.

  • paulbuffalo

    I’ll sell this Josh fellow a horse and buggy.  Would that put an end to his comments?

  • bfloforthewin

    Can we please remove facebook comments? They suck.

  • David Saunders

    This isn’t about the interstate, this is about 1 of 3 highways which were built that destroyed neighborhoods.. And I’d be perfectly find with a nationwide network of bike paths. The interstate, when well placed and designed works. Why can’t we fix this mistake I ask you.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Kiernan Smith That may be true, but that doesn’t really matter, this backwards development policy is hallucinatory. The problem isn’t the speed of the road the problem is the lack of development around the park on the other side near Nichols where you can necessitate a 30MPH speed limit, but to say that you need one on the 198 despite the lack of development interest is somewhat dubious. We can run this experiment sure, we’ll give it 5 years okay? But if it doesn’t substantially increase the amount of development ie. large structures then it can be deemed ineffectual.

  • Foomanschu13

    David Steele I get some of the rationale behind the change but my first thought echo’d yours: Why have a 30mph boulevard cut through a park when 30mph streets are right around it? Why not remove the road completely and have an actual park??

  • Joel Menter

    Josh really, stop. You’re embarassing your mom at this point.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Kiernan Smith The retirement home? Okay but that’s not the park that’s at Gate’s circle, lets see what else, the old elmwood gas station? okay… But that isn’t around the park either.

  • David Saunders

    Josh, the park design isn’t the problem. For more than 100 years that park was there. Serving the citizens of the community before a highway was rammed through it.

  • Andrew Wilson

    And you’re embarrassing your kids Joel

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Joel Menter I’ve said my peace and I think it’s fair to say that it represents the larger sentiment of the Buffalo Niagara region as a whole not just the NIMBYs.

  • tjhorner1 There is a whole network of arterials that take motorists to the same places. They were designated as arterials, many hosting their own bus routes, for that very purpose. Scajaquada was never the only way to get between Main Street and Delaware Park. It never was and it never will be.

    This project concerns more than just the people driving the expressway. Many of those who still use it are now advocating for the 30 mph-based changes. We should not let an high-speed expressway continue to degrade the park it cuts thru just because you can’t handle the extra commute time.

  • Jerry Graves

    So how will you allow drivers trying to cross the city at a reasonable speed such as 45. modern cars really do stop very well and guard rails work like a charm seperating vehicles at these speeds.Fix it so all can be satisfied

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    David Saunders We didn’t have semi trucks 100 years ago! Commerce is a significant portion of what drives development, stagnating that is not good for economies.

  • David Saunders

    I think you missed my point completely. I can think of numerous streets used by semi trucks to go across the city. What is the point your making?

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    No I think you missed the point… Do you like Driving down Main St… The speed limit is the point.

  • paulbuffalo

    I like this Jerry Graves.  He’s right: modern cars do stop very well.  Add a few guard rails and you’re good to go.  Jerry solved the problem.  Next up: world peace.

  • David Saunders

    Let’s see. Streets that cross the city. Delavan, Amherst, Lafayette, Ferry, Utica to name a few. Yes, disc brakes work well. They are finally incorporating them heavily into bikes. But vehicles only operate as well as the user.
    45 a reasonable speed? The percentage of pedestrians dying almost doubles from 45% to 85% when the speed increases from 30 mph to 40 mph. So no, 45mph is not a reasonable speed. Especially in a urban neighborhood.
    Why do we need a highway through a park?

  • Northbuff

    Hey Mr. Krouse why not 60 or 70 mph, that would definitely help the delivery times for your grocery delivery service? Why would any urban residents want a safer, healthier and peaceful place to play which has shown can affect both mental
    and physical well-being when there are more important things , like a buck to make?

    “Customers simply visit mityo.com select groceries from a store or multiple stores of their choosing, we then deliver to them in the same day in as little as 1 hour.”

  • Stateofmind

    I will rejoice in your traffic violations/speeding tickets, then.

  • tjhorner1

    Brad J Bethel Jr tjhorner1 So yeah, I hear you.  Looking for the documentation that states that the other arterials that you mention can handle the extra volume.  Let’s say that Scajaquada traffic is reduced by 1/2, to 25,000 cars a day.  That leave 25,000 more cars on other streets, and that’s a lot.  Let’s be real, just for a second, I promise.  The lion’s share of these additional 25k people in cars, aren’t going to take the bus to wherever their going.  It’s just not. going. to. happen…in Buffalo.

    The 198 does NOT degrade Delaware Park.  Not sure where people get that from.  I live in Elmwood Village, less than 1/2 mile from the 198 and the park.  The 198 is a convenient way for me to get anywhere other than downtown.  If you live in the Cheektowaga and want to go shopping in the Elmwood Village.  Many people who live in the suburbs ONLY know how to use the highways to get into the city.  You;re going to ask them to navigate back roads now?  Will Elmwood Village businesses see a drop in customers since it will be more difficult to reach?  Same for the ABK Galllery.

    This decision has an impact that reaches much further than anyone anticipates.

  • Stateofmind

    It’s not the city dwellers’ responsibility to make commuters’ travel time easier and shorter. Our neighborhoods and lives have been affected enough. 

    Good move, DOT!!

  • David Saunders

    Still not seeing the point you are trying to make about the speed limit. The Scajaquada in it’s current design in a thoroughfare to bypass the city. To bypass the local businesses which may thrive from the reintroduction of vehicular traffic. How does a thoroughfare which takes you from point a to b promote development?

  • paulbuffalo

    Josh, don’t be humble:  we all call you Mr. Buffalo.  You’re like a local Norm from Cheers.

  • David Saunders

    Only thing I drive is a bike, down main. Going under the speed limit. What’s your point?

  • Jerry Graves

    It was one ugly unfortunate accident, wonder what you guys think about gun control, could save many thousands of lives

  • Northbuff

    tjhorner1 And all the continuingly downed trees and lamp posts have nothing to do with speed. I drive the 98 on a daily basis and speed has everything to do with it.

  • Jerry Graves

    The world cannot be made 100% without risk, it’s impossible.

  • David Saunders

    It has been a battle for the past 15 years. Ever since it was built people have questioned it. Why are you avoiding my question with a statement that is irrelevant to the current discussion?

  • paulbuffalo

    Jerry, you’re a sage.  I agree with you.  How many streets and parks to pedestrians really need to roam and graze?  They have a whole park, for gods sake.  How much more grass does a community need?  The animals in the Buffalo Zoo set a good example by enjoying their limited space.  Why can’t people do the same?

  • Northbuff

    People are not like light switches, most don’t go from 50 to 30 or vice versa at the sight of a speed sign. How long have you been driving?

  • Joe M LiButti

    It seriously boggles the mind that there’s this much opposition. The whole length is 3.592 miles, at 50 mph that takes you just over 4 minutes and at 30 mph it takes you just over 7. Is a three minute difference that much of a problem? Grow up.

  • Jerry Graves

    All those mentioned side streets have no guardrails and are more dangerous even at 25 mph for pedestrians.They all have many intersections , traffic lights etc where accidents are more likely to take place.Putting cars from the 198 unto city streets is crazy. Build your massive boulevard and just seperate the cars from the bikes and walkers. Do you really like driving 30 minutes to go about 6 miles

  • ma1acha1

    Um 
    There are no businesses on the 198.  Saying the 198 should be constricted to force traffic into slower city streets to increase business is pure speculation.  
    Your figures on pedestrians are stupid because there are no pedestrians.  The only cross walk is at Parkside and there is a traffic light.  Do you have statistics on fatalities there?  Or more assumptions, anecdotes?

  • TheNextMayor

    What progressive city is installing 4 lane highway/boulevards in it’s parks? 0.

  • Jerry Graves

    How about more nice pedestrian bridges over the expressway

  • OldHayesHall

    paulbuffalo  Wow this Josh fellow has quite the ego.

  • Andy Grace Rosevear

    Jerry, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

  • Vandra

    Speed limits won’t make much difference once there are multiple lights at intersections at cross roads and cross walks.  It’s not going to be non-stop anymore.  30 doesn’t seem so slow when there’s another intersection to negotiate just ahead.

  • ma1acha1

    Why do we need bicycles on an expressway?  I don’t insist driving my car onto bicycle only paths inside Deleware park and around Hoyt lake.  If you hit my car do you have insurance to repair it?  What proof do you have that you are safe to operate on streets?  I had to study, take a written and road test, pay fees to the Department of Motor Vehicles for registration, and get a yearly safety inspection of my vehicle. 
    Open your wallet and contribute to DMV costs before claiming you are safe and have right roads others pay for

  • paulbuffalo

    … by the way, this was to be a road that moved traffic, not pedestrians.
    I didn’t know that, Jerry.  Now it all makes sense.  Thanks.

  • Jerry Graves

    Buh , bye now

  • paulbuffalo

    OldHayesHall 
    He’s the pulse of the city.

  • Andy Grace Rosevear

    What about the studies showing that only 15% of 198 user actually complete the whole 3.6 miles of it?Most of them use it to access various places in town… like a normal road. It is not a commuter road going into town, it’s part of an obsolete and badly designed inner loop.

  • ayvenday

    TheNextMayor Buffalo, progressive? I think not!

  • tjhorner1

    I also drive it daily. Twice daily, actually. Ive also looked At the accident statistics, and accidents are UP by double digit percentages since the speed limit has been lowered. Explaination?

  • paulbuffalo

    All those mentioned side streets have no guardrails and are more dangerous even at 25 mph for pedestrians.
    I see where you’re going with, Jerry.  If the city installed guard rails on side streets, it would eliminate accidents there, too.  How about guard rails in residential driveways, Jerry?  I’ve seen my share of fender benders there.

  • paulbuffalo

    Not if you use guard rails, Jerry.

  • MatthewMoje

    robins36  Totally agree!! It’s so easy to join the website! Facebook people, just join Buffalo Raising!

  • Andrew F Haertel

    Yep but digging down would solve the issue!

  • OldHayesHall

    ma1acha1  All tax payers pay for roads, not just those that drive cars.

  • ma1acha1

    Dirty secret: the DOT proposed guardrails BEFORE last spring.  The City and Olmstead conservancy rejected guardrails that would have prevented the tragedy!!  No one will admit the conservancy rejected the guardrails for “aesthetic” reasons.
    New guardrails protect against anymore killing = your “safety” argument is moot.  Now its just you wanting to  choke traffic for your selfish agenda.  When bicycles and pedestrians get up there more people will be killed = where is your concern for safety now?

  • paulbuffalo

    MatthewMoje 
    Do you really that?  Look at those facebook comments.

  • tjhorner1 Brad J Bethel Jr “It’s just not. going. to. happen…in Buffalo.”

    Therein lies the singular flaw to your entire rhetoric. YOU don’t think such-and-such will happen, so everything has to be dropped for YOUR sake.

    “Many people who live in the suburbs ONLY know how to use the highways to get into the city.”

    That’s their problem. Sorry if you and others were trained to think that freeways are the “only” way to get anywhere, especially as one who has no faith in our bus system, but that was never the case.

    ” You;re going to ask them to navigate back roads now?”

    How long have you lived in Buffalo? Probably not long enough, otherwise you would not be so quick to dismiss Amherst Street, Hertel, West/East Delavan among others as back roads. If people choose to travel the city, they will find another way, period. 

    But if you’re suggesting that people “need” freeways like they need oxygen, your priorities are highly questionable.

    “Elmwood Village businesses see a drop in customers since it will be more difficult to reach? Same for the ABK Galllery.”

    I highly doubt it. Last time I checked, Cheektowaga does not own the city.

  • Joel Menter

    Quality of life doesn’t matter, just the commutes of these two brainiacs.

  • tjhorner1

    Buffalo born and raised, spent 15 years in charlotte and Chicago. Been back for some tIme. I get the city, trust me.
    You’re oBviously a dreamer, so I leave younin your dream land, until reality smacks you in the face. Enjoy your perfeCt world, while everyone else passes you by….

  • Joel Menter

    Andrew the point is that it’s development and makes the park system there safer and increases the quality of life for those of is living jere and using it.. And the only argument against it is commute times. That’s selfish.
    My kids are cool with me defending a safer and better park experience, nice try though.

  • OldHayesHall

    Do you even physics bro?

    An object travelling at a higher rate of speed has the potential to cause more harm. It’s not rocket science.

  • ma1acha1

    Stop blaming blight on the expressway.  Go price a house in Parkside for god’s sake.  They’re astronomical and near the 198.   

    The history of Olmstead was that it was designed in 1868 shortly after a little thing called the Civil war.  How many cars were on the road then?  The population of Buffalo was about 80,000 then.  Now its 240,000.  I love history but i don’t listen to music on 78 speed vinyl.  I don’t ride a horse to work.

  • Joel Menter

    The nimby argument is dumb, since it’s been my backyard for many years, now they are improving it.

  • KateShandsHaq

    ma1acha1 there are pedestrians. we live here. our kids play here and we will be so much safer when we can traverse our own neighborhood and the park in it’s entirety.

  • KateShandsHaq

    the expressway was built in 1962

  • KateShandsHaq

    there is no need for development surrounding the park. It is a park- no need for ‘large structures’

  • Tanya Dean

    You cant use math to solve problems! *fake outrage*

  • Tanya Dean

    Step outside your bubble and look around, pedestrians are people too.

  • LouisTully

    I already wasted too much time on this subject debating silly, ridiculous sentiment of people who can’t see past their nose.
    To offer an opinion, though, I’d love the portion west of Grant to longer be elevated.  It would be a mess to redo the interchanges but the long-term maintenance costs would be lower and overall quality of life would be improved.  Access to the Scajaquada Creek would be easier and more utilized, among many other things.

  • ma1acha1

    KateShandsHaq ma1acha1 
    How about you supervise your kids?  Teach them how to use the safe paths and bridges over the Scajacuada.  The new guardrails protect them for the few hundred yards Deleware park abuts the 198.

  • North Park

    Northbuff  Why do you bother responding to posts from Facebook? They can’t see what you write!

  • neverchange

    Brad J Bethel Jr tjhorner1  So neither of your arguments are backed up by evidence. Opinions are wonderful things but are often wrong. Of course everyone has an opinion (just like everyone has an a**hole), but until someone provides some data to use in decision making the likelihood of making a bad decisions goes up.

  • North Park

    DanteDAnthony  A good idea in theory. But far too expensive to implement. We are enormously wasteful with our infrastructure spending already. No sense building new highways.

  • North Park

    blackolive David Steele  Everyone needs to stop responding to the facebook comments.

  • neverchange

    tjhorner1  I do agree with you that the 198 seems have gotten more dangerous since the speed downgrade. Of course no one has provided these statistics so we can see if it has in fact gotten worse (and they are probably never going to be provided). For now, we’ll have to live with a more dangerous highway until the DOT finally does turn the 198 into a road. I’m guessing this will take 15 – 20 years.

  • ma1acha1

    15 years in secret with rich people in Parkside.  No polls, votes, studies of traffic.  I reject the whole “this is the culmination of 15 years” claim!
    I could be totally wrong but prove it.  Maybe the 70,000 people who use the 198 every day appreciate choked driving.  Put it to a referendum.  People are voting with their gas pedal feet already, driving 40-50 anyway.

  • neverchange

    Shame on everyone capitalizing on this poor child’s death to promote their own agenda. This is where these downsizing advocates lost me. Don’t know how they can look themselves in the mirror.

  • neverchange

    OldHayesHall  Clearly your not a rocket scientist. So enlighten me bro, how fast was the guy going when he drove of the road and into the park? Think he could have kept his car on the highway if he wasn’t asleep?

  • ma1acha1

    What you don’t understand is that 3 minutes is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.  It is not an isolated delay but added to 10-15 other 2-3-5 minute delays on city streets leading up to just getting on the 198.  It takes me 10 minutes to drive 2 miles onto the Scajacuada thanks to traffic lights.  Every day, inane, needless constriction.
    If the changes coincided with light synchronization, improving flow on the surrounding streets perhaps not so much outrage?

  • neverchange

    A child died because a man fell asleep at the wheel. Pure and simple fact. Don’t try to advance your agenda at this poor child’s expense.

  • neverchange

    Captain Picard  We should downsize Facebook to 30 mph.

  • neverchange

    ma1acha1  Exactly how many people have died because of accidents with the 198 in its history anyway? Any one have that statistic? How many car accidents do people with narcolepsy cause each year?

  • neverchange

    You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

  • neverchange

    You really should be ashamed of yourself.

  • Warren Gene Gilfus

    I love it!

  • Andrew Wilson

    Joel Menter this may seem like a crazy thing but you can have discussions/conversations without insulting someone with a different view than that of your own. You should try it sometime, debates aren’t always malicious and personal. You probably didn’t learn this in art school at Buff State. Ya know like dismissing someone as a “lazy ass” simply because they don’t necessarily agree with your exact viewpoint. Be an adult for me one time.

  • ma1acha1

    Jerry you do know what you’re talking about.  Like Trump these people will resort to name calling.  “You’re stupid if you don’t agree with me.”  Maybe I am selfish?  Maybe I’m wrong?  But don’t invite me to a propaganda meeting where a Parkside politician puppet rejoices in how he got what the rich people wanted.  The commissioner offered no science or studies yet claimed changes were a done deal.  Prove me wrong.  Get input from everyone affected by the 198 changes.  The stakeholders include drivers and people who live outside its neighborhoods.

    Andy how can you call a road that has been in place HALF A CENTURY AND TRANSFERS SEVENTY THOUSAND PEOPLE EACH DAY OBSOLETE??

  • neverchange

    Yeah, it’s too bad people stop using Delaware Park after it was destroyed by the highway being constructed.

  • neverchange

    Brad J Bethel Jr  I see that Andrew’s comment flew right over your head. Hope you weren’t damaged by the wind.

  • neverchange

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

  • Woods79

    170 comments, Sponsored in part by Mark Zuckerberg, and his dElightfully engaged progeny from The Facebook.

  • yup11

    Has anyone suggested just making the whole 198 a tunnel? The aboveground could have a promenade feel to it. Just a thought but I am bracing for someone biting my head off

  • Mark Nojaim

    Josh,
    You’re going to lose a whole 25 seconds to your commute.. Do the actual math 2 miles at 20 mph is not that significant. Your argument doesn’t really make any sense.

  • Woods79

    Someone actually talked about the stifling effect the DOWNGRADE would have on “large structures” and DEVELOPMENT near the park. What the hell is going on here? Quit pretending an exTra few minutes on a 3.6 (maximum) mile stretch of road is a big deal. Set your alarm 3 minutes earlier and your problem is solved. Please spare us the ” at least make the .8 mile stretch Past Buff State” 55 argument too. 5thgr ade math is useful as many have pointed out.

  • Northbuff

    tjhorner1 Think about it, your bumper to bumper with trigger happy drivers used to and preferring to drive 50+ mph. More people are not doing the speed limit than do. When you looked at your statistics, did you notice the main reasons for the increase? Tailgating and speeding will be the top 2 reasons.

  • Northbuff

    tjhorner1 Tailgating and SPEED

  • anti tree hugger

    What a waste of money !! Just to shut up a small group of cry babies!!!

  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    BuffalosFinest  The 190 is the only comparable throughway with similar problems. Sad it will likely never be changed. DOT surprised me too.

  • Kiernan Smith
  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    neverchange  He can’t see what you type. Sadly, I can.

  • Rodney Copperbottom

    What they really need is to remove the entrance ramp from Lincoln Pkwy & actually create a raised bridge over the water dividing Hoyt Lake. If this were done (along with the reduced speeds), then it would actually look a lot more like a connected Delaware Park as the raised bridge would be able to accommodate watercraft, pedestrians, & bikers alike.

  • GotAnyChange

    This Is great.
    Kind of hard To follow conversations with all the comments from facebook. Maybe separate them like other sites do?

  • paulbuffalo

    I don’t know, Joe.  Good question, though.

  • skajack

    Isn’t the main issue safety? 

    It’s not about wanting to get somewhere faster.
    It’s about wanting to get somewhere safer.
    The 198 could be safer over night by shutting down the Delaware to Nottingham exit.
    Restore all merging lanes. Having to come to a full stop, then looking 180º behind you is creating risk.

    Accidents happen because of miscommunication between drivers, pedestrian and bicyclists.
    There is no reason cross the 198, other then where the pedestrian bridge is.
    Cost: $0. Time of construction: 0 months.

  • paulbuffalo

    OldHayesHall 
    Hey, I’m on board with that.  It’s my 2017 New Year’s Eve resolution.

  • I have nothing to say on this article; many know my opinion on this.

    I just came to say that those who comment on Facebook just “drive by” while us BRO folks actually get into productive discussions. Probably because we all know each others’ POVs.

  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    OldHayesHall ma1acha1  That is where his whole “Pay DMV, take tests” argument fails, and it is a lame one at that.

  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    ma1acha1 Yes it is only 3 minutes as your additional 10 is not relevant to this discussion.

  • Mike Santoro

    I hope they raise the limit back up where it’s elevated. Doing 30 there is dumb

  • grovercleveland

    neverchange Brad J Bethel Jr tjhorner1 People who don’t think putting cars on “arteriel roads” should be forced to drive main street between the walker center plaza and ecc north every single day during rush hour. I mean, its only 2 miles, so it should only take 4 minutes right? right?

  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    anti tree hugger  name says it all

  • ma1acha1

    One Point 21 Gigawatts OldHayesHall ma1acha1 
    Lame is not understanding that DMV tests and requirements document operator and vehicle safety.  Ironic you cry safety when offering nothing to prove you are qualified?  Ironic to insist on traveling next to vehicles weighing thousands of pounds that can crush / kill you instantly.  Should a 10 year old be allowed to ride the 198?  If you claim to be vehicles, pay the same fees, get tickets, just like cars.

  • grovercleveland

    Tear out the Zoo, the golf course, the tennis courts, the basketball courts the softball diamonds. Bow to the glory that is 1868 Olmstead. Preach at his alter, for he is god and we cannot do anything to cross him.

    Take down all highways, food, medicine, clothing and other goods can be delivered by pedestrians and bicycles. 

    Let us curse people who do not live in the city, but work there and/or spend money there. Let us also curse them when businesses leave for the suburbs

  • grovercleveland

    skajack THANK YOU

  • Opuntia humifusa

    anti tree hugger The only cry babies I’ve seen are the ones whining about adding a minute to their commute, as if they have a god given right to drive their car as quickly as possible at the expense of the common good.These changes are just common sense, and it’s about time that we think of other things besides just cars when thinking about our neighborhoods and communities.

  • grovercleveland

    Woods79 go drive main street in williamsville. its only 2 miles, math tell me thats 4 minutes. why does it always take me 30 minutes?

  • grovercleveland

    yup11 you buying?

  • One Point 21 Gigawatts

    ma1acha1 One Point 21 Gigawatts OldHayesHall  This argument is so batty I will just exit. On my Bike. With no license. On a road. My taxes paid for.

  • LouisTully

    yup11 Terribly expensive up front; expensive to maintain.  Not worth it.

  • SocialTechie

    Agreed. I left a comment with the DOT last night that the connections to the 198 road are just as important as the design of the road itself.
    The 33 should be a project too, but I suppose one task at a time.

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    Are you guys against Chestnut Ridge park too? Because the 277 runs straight through Chestnut ridge splitting the park in two…

  • Opuntia humifusa

    grovercleveland Woods79 Exaggeration much? Time yourself next time, I commute from Main and Youngs and it has never taken me 30 minutes.

  • ma1acha1

    Woods79 
    Sorry every time someone says “only a few minutes” it grates my nerves.  Only a few minutes here, only a few more here adds up and now it takes 10 minutes to drive 2 miles just to get down Elmwood or Deleware to get on the 198.  The few minutes is the tip of the ice berg or last straw.  
    So 2 x 5 x 52 = 8.67 hours a year I just lost to appease special interests.  Not safety, not because bicycles or pedestrians have no place else to go.  Figure i have to work another 20 years and I lose 4.34 weeks of work.  if I make $20hr you just stole $173.40 from me.  Figure that’s after taxes so its really $231 gross pay or $4,620 dollars.  Woods can you give me FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS please? How would you feel if someone took that kind of money from you?  Stop acting like it doesn’t add up.  Especially because I drove the 198 for 30 years without your luxury tax.

  • Opuntia humifusa

    ma1acha1 Woods79 Special interests… you mean the common sense idea that there shouldn’t be an expressway through the middle of a park? 

    Try taking the bus, then you’ll be able to be productive while you commute.

  • Wise Profit

    ma1acha1 Woods79  Why did you have to drive the 198 for 30 years?

  • ma1acha1

    Opuntia humifusa ma1acha1 Woods79 
    The bus doesn’t run to my work out in Lancaster.  I have to be present at my job to work.  This isn’t about flippant replies.  How would you feel if I told you to move by South Park Lake = no expressway?
    Somehow your solution is right.  No compromise and anyone who objects lacks common sense.  Sounds like Rush Limbaugh should come design our roads.  Do the correct studies, put it to a vote.  If 70 thousand 198 users say you are right – congratulations

  • Rand503

    grovercleveland My my, such bitterness because you have to drive a bit slower.

  • Wise Profit

    grovercleveland  Wow seeing as nobody proposed that I’ll assume you’re being sarcastic or you’re just kind of whiny little bitch.

    Don’t tell me what should be in my backyard and I won’t come out to the suburbs and tell you what should be in yours.

  • Rand503

    ma1acha1 The straw that breaks the camel’s back?  What are you, a teenager on hormones?

    Sheesh.  An extra three minutes, and then you complain about all the other traffic lights.  10 minutes on one expressway!  Wow — you really slice your life down to the second!  

    What happens if Buffalo’s economy actually does increase, and we have a real rush hour?  Then who are you going to complain to?  Are you going to demand that economic activity be stifled because you CANNOT LOSE ONE MINUTE!

    Here in Washington, DC, the average commute is one hour, and it’s been getting longer over the past 20 years.  People complain, but they aren’t bitter about it.  They just deal with it.  

    I’m sure as an adult you can too.

  • Rand503

    ma1acha1 I didn’t know everyone in Parkside is so rich!  It a vast conspiracy, I tells ya!

  • Wise Profit

    ma1acha1  How many of those 70,000 are coming into the city from the suburbs, because NO those who simply use it as their in and out for work don’t really have as much a say as though who call this area home.

  • Bflojoe

    Whittle it down to one lane each way, speed bumps, crosswalks, paths, more greenspace, trees (!)-peds and bikers will use it safely, drivers will find different routes or learn to use it responsibly, or get ticketed. Can’t wait to get our parks back! Yes, I live in the city, drive 198 and use our parks. If the road must stay in some form, it’s got to downgrade to a slo roll.

  • Bflojoe

    People out there don’t seem to give a shit, so that’s what they get.

  • Wise Profit

    tjhorner1 Brad J Bethel Jr  “You;re going to ask them to navigate back roads now?”

    This made me laugh. Its not like we have unmarked dirt roads through the city that people coming into the city must navigate. And you act like they are literally taking out the 198, they are not. So people can still use the same route, they will just have a slightly longer journey.

  • ma1acha1

    Rand503 ma1acha1 
    Again the with personal insults?  Somehow I’m not an adult because I value my time? Now some one from Washington needs to chime in  ITS NOT ONE GOD DAMN MINUTE.  Its 5 and then 15 every day, every week, every year, and it adds up.
    Lets say I make $20/hr.  They say 2 minutes now but it will be five when cross walks and lights go in.  5 minutes each way becomes $866/year after taxes, $1,169 gross.  I have to work another 20 years so I just lost $23,386 in salary not counting compound interest or inflation over my career.  Isn’t time money?  Who are YOU to take that from me?  Can you send me a check and I’ll shut up.  I’m sure people said the tea tax was just a small amount.

  • tjhorner1

    You do realize tHat there are people who live in the suburbs Who won’t go into downtown because they are Afraid of the driving, One way streets, traffic, etc.
    So yes, there ate street signs, but to assume that people will take the iniiative To figure out an alTernative route, is a risky assumption to make.
    Just beCause yOU know the city and the alternative routes, doesnt mean tHat everyone else does.

  • There is a substantial difference in size between the two scenarios….and configuration…and density of the woodlands-quite a bad comparison actually.

  • LeonEndres

    anti tree hugger  I agree 100%…these people moved into the neighborhood knowing the expressway was there…they are taking advantage of the death of a child to further their goals…btw, if they had guardrails in place back when the kid got hit, he would not have been hit…also, if parking was still allowed around the park like it used to be, there would have likely been a car parked there to block the vehicle that hit him…

  • Wise Profit

    tjhorner1  As previously stated THE ROAD WILL STILL BE THERE, just at a lower speed.

    Just to reinforce this as you didn’t pick it up last time – THE ROAD WILL STILL BE THERE. So people can still use the route to get into the city.

    It is not the responsibility of city residents to subject their neighborhoods to high-speed freeways to appease the fears of suburbanites. And if your point on people not coming downtown are because of driving is true, then what are we losing? The benefits they already didn’t bring to the city?

  • Wise Profit

    Nope Josh, that’s not my neighborhood so its not my fight to fight. If residents of that area are upset about the location of the highway then it is upon them to voice that opinion.

  • LeonEndres

    Opuntia humifusa grovercleveland Woods79  apparently never during rush hour

  • Wise Profit

    ma1acha1  “The stakeholders include drivers and people who live outside its neighborhoods.”

    That’s like saying welfare collectors should have a say in whether I quit my job because my tax dollars are used to support them.

    Should I have a say in how the QEW is operated because I use it sometimes?

    Or maybe LAX because I’ve flown into that airport before?

  • LeonEndres

    LouisTully  have you looked at that creek?? why would you want access to it??

  • Your username indicates much you value anyone’s data.

  • ma1acha1

    Wise Profit ma1acha1 
    Great question!!!!!  Why not do a study?  Survey users instead of just assuming they’re all foreigners with no claim to our land.  Why not figure out how many actually live in the city?  I do!!
    Instead the DOT claims to have had meetings with “stakeholders” for years.  Pardon me but I think drivers who use the 198 have a stake, suburbanites or not.  Businesses nearby, people who live on neighborhoods that will be flooded with traffic once the 198 is “quelled.”

  • “So yes, there aRe street signs, but to assume that people will take the iniiative To figure out an alTernative route, is a risky assumption to make”
    It’s called “using your brain”. Sorry if you allow freeways to think for you.

  • Wise Profit

    Brad J Bethel Jr  To build on that, ITS 2016 and most people have a GPS on their person at all times (phone). So your alternate route doesn’t even need to be known you can be brainless and follow the simple directions given to you.

  • Ilze Ārniece

    awesome things a happening in Buffalo, Brian 🙂

  • tjhorner1

    Wise Profit tjhorner1 You said “It is not the responsibility of city residents to subject their neighborhoods to high-speed freeways to appease the fears of suburbanites”

    So are you proposing that we remove ALL “high speed freeways” from the city, or only the ones that impact the well off neighborhoods.

    Absolutely tired of all of the elitists.  The people who think that they’re better because they live in the city, or require special treatment because they live by the zoo, or that their problems are worse because they can get a pulpit to talk about it and be heard.  

    And, if you think for one minute that the Elmwood Village would be what it is today without the support of those who DON’T live in the city, you would really benefit at taking another look.  I’m sure the Elmwood Village Association can show you the data….

  • ma1acha1

    Wise Profit ma1acha1 
    So drivers are welfare recipients now?  WHAT IF MOST OF THEM LIVE IN THE CITY?  How about do a study?  What if most of them live on the west side, black rock, North Buffalo?  They have no say because they don’t live right by the park?  The DOT doesn’t know because they never did a study surveying users, figuring out where they live or their opinion on the changes.  Its not occasional use its EVERY DAY.  
    That’s like saying most of the people who use the zoo aren’t from the city = shut it down.

  • You might want to educate yourself on how the expressway came in the first place. Against the common consensus at the time, and how it still devalues both the park and area neighborhoods today. Then let’s talk about “stealing”.

  • LeonEndres

    ma1acha1 Rand503  these are probably the same people that don’t want a new bridge to Canada built or don’t want the ugly grain mills torn down…their issues are more important than the 70,000 who use the road daily

  • tjhorner1

    Brad J Bethel Jr You can get off of your stool any time you want.  As soon as you do, I’ll drop you in the middle of an unfamiliar neighborhood that you are uncomfortable with, and ask you to find your way 

    Try another perspective sometime, as opposed to thinking everyone is the same as you are.  You could grow a lot from that exercise…..

  • tjhorner1

    Wise Profit tjhorner1 Brad J Bethel Jr Trying to figure out if you two actually live IN the park.  Like, literally, IN it.

  • Facebook Commenters are Losers

    .

  • tjhorner1

    Wise Profit grovercleveland So, it’s only good to complain about things that YOU feel worthy?  #elitist

  • Likewise yourself. A man who can’t breathe or think without his freeway.

  • tjhorner1

    Opuntia humifusa anti tree hugger Awesome that you get to choose what people are “whining” about.  Are you so sure that people are upset about a few extra minutes on their commute, OR, maybe it could be that the changes suggested aren’t safe, or that the changes will add significantly more than a couple of minutes to the commute (See Main St, Williamsville, or the 198 during a Delaware Park event),  Or maybe that spending $100M on lowering a speed limit through a park when the city has greater needs may not be the best spent money.  I could go on, but I won’t, since I know that you’ll bring it back to people complaining over an “extra minute”……

  • tjhorner1

    Woods79 Awesome that you get to choose what people are “whining” about.  Are you so sure that people are upset about a few extra minutes on their commute, OR, maybe it could be that the changes suggested aren’t safe, or that the changes will add significantly more than a couple of minutes to the commute (See Main St, Williamsville, or the 198 during a Delaware Park event),  Or maybe that spending $100M on lowering a speed limit through a park when the city has greater needs may not be the best spent money.  I could go on, but I won’t, since I know that you’ll bring it back to people complaining over an “extra minute”……

  • tjhorner1

    Opuntia humifusa ma1acha1 Woods79 Take the bus.  You know what?  You do you, and We all will do what works for us.  #elitist

  • Soccerdude5719

    Buffaboy facebook drive-by. Hilarious!

  • Anthony Dodge

    I don’t mind the boulevard idea. Nice cruise through the park. But for the quarter mile from grant to the 190 the speed limit shouldn’t be 30, it is an elevated highway at that point there is extremely little risk to pedestrians, it’s pretty hard to smash through concrete barriers

  • Do YOU live ON the Scajaquada?

  • tjhorner1

    Brad J Bethel Jr So, you know me now?  You know my driving habits?  Tell me more about myself, please.  I’ve already told you that I live in the city, and the Elmwood Village.  I also have a bike, not as much as I’d like, and walk the dog on occasion.  I do drive on the freeway to work….because when I do, I save 30 minutes, each way (1 hour a day for those slow on math) as opposed to taking the non freeway routes.  

    Sorry man, I have a busy life, and that extra hour in the day means that I can do the things that I’m doing that give back to the city.  With a wife, two young kids, a full time job and a growing small business, that extra hour means that I can give something back to the city that I love…

    I don’t claim to know you, or your habits, but if I was a guessing man, I’d guess that you are someone who enjoys and has the time to waste, and take it all in, but when you look back at things, you realize that you really never accomplish much.

    How did that feel?…..

  • tjhorner1

    Brad J Bethel Jr 0.3 miles from it.  Pretty close.  Guessing, closer than you.

  • neverchange

    Brad J Bethel Jr  My username has about as much to say about my values as does yours. Mean while, do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

  • Rand503

    tjhorner1 Opuntia humifusa anti tree hugger So then why do they only complain about the extra three minutes?

  • tjhorner1

    Northbuff tjhorner1 Is your thought that the speeders are going to disappear off of the 198 if there is a tree lined median?  Maybe?  I’m not sure that will be the case though.

    I didn’t dig into the accident reports for accident causes vs. the previous year.  I was interested, but the city doesn’t make that information easy to harvest.  Is it your opinion that tailgating and speed are the leading causes of accidents, or is that more of an theory of yours that you’re passing off as fact?

  • Rand503

    ma1acha1 Woods79 Actuallyl, ma1acha1, when you talk about the straw that breaks the camel’s back, it isn’t what you think it is.

    Anyone who gets so worked up over three, and gets so agitated about traffic lights that he actually times how much time he loses standing a light (I can’t wait to see you impatient you if a person needs to cross the street in front of you!), and totals up your time lost, and translates that to dollars has a much bigger problem.  

    People like you who stress over such insignificant issues and makes them seem just sooooooo important, and sooooo much more important than anyone else’s issues, are exhibiting classic narsissistic behavior.  Yes, we know, it’s all about YOU and YOUR COMMUTE.  But that isn’t your real problem.

    Your real problem is that you are a frenzied Type A personality who flies into a rage over every perceived slight against your precious time, which means you are ripe for a heart attack.  

    Which of course doesn’t bother me — not the least!  In fact, it will be good because then you will be in the hospital recovering while the rest of us drive slowly an enjoy the view.  Unlike you, we find things like parks and such to have a much greater value in our lives than a few minutes in the car.

    If you want to avoid a heart attack, I suggest you make your peace with traffic, and play some nice soothing music in the car to calm you down.  The life you save may be your own.

  • “I don’t claim to know you, or your habits, ”
    Yet you’re okay with deciding what’s best for everyone. That no one will look beyond what has failed this city for 50 years. That no one would utilize public transit or seek alternate driving routes on their own free will.
    No, you’d rather shut down the whole idea of changing something that’s too scary for you. Because it’s easier to stay in a comfortable rut than come up with actual ideas to move this city forward.

  • tjhorner1

    Brad J Bethel Jr IF you did know me, or paid attention to my many comments on this subject, you’d know that I actually support a Scajaquada Parkway, between Grant and Parkside.  I think that it’s needed, and a 30 MPH speed limit through the park would be enjoyed.  What I disagree with 100% is downgrading and spending money to change the 198 from the 190 to Grant, and from Parkside to the 33.  These sections are not in the park, and are clearly engineered for higher speed.  There isn’t a safety issue, and the 190-Grant section runs through some of the most industrialized parts of the city.  Drop the speed limit on these sections to 45MPH, and call it a day.  Focus attention  to the part of the 198 that does run through the park, and do it right.

    Someone suggested a roundabout at Parkside.  I think that would make an amazing addition to a troubled intersection.

    Contrary to your uninformed conjecture, I love leaving my comfort zone, and actually make my living doing just that.  I embrace change, but oppose an elitist approach that gains steam for no reason other than because it benefits them, and those like them.  I’m not shitting this down as a bad idea, but I am shutting down parts of the project as a bad idea.   Focus on what’s doable. 

    Also, again, if you did know me, you’d know that what I do IS moving this city forward.  It happens to be part of my business…..

  • ma1acha1 Woods79 That’s the most bogus line of derelict reasoning I have seen on any of these threads yet. Simply because the rape and destruction of the city’s infrastructure in the 1950’s is a convenience to you is simply no justification for it to continue. The citizens of Buffalo are under no ethical compunction to sacrifice their quality of life and property values on the altar of your commute through their city. Sorry. No soup for you. You want a short commute? Move to the city.

  • Sean Miller

    I can’t stand to bear the thought of that extra two minutes of commute time! Oh no, the suffering!

  • Andrew Wilson

    You’re right Sean. It’s time to put up a barrier!

  • Josh Lawrence Krouse

    So Sean you have been alive since it was made into a highway, or do you own a time machine??? That degrades your quality of life? For me proximity to a highway actually increased my quality of life before I moved for school. It’s about having maximum maneuverability not maximum isolation.

  • Kevin Rybczynski

    Agreed! There are so many ways to traverse that part of the city. The added traffic to other streets would help businesses on Hertel and Amherst. No Ralph’s would be best. It there has to be a road, 15mph. It’s a city park, not a freeway.

  • Kevin Rybczynski

    Get rid of it altogether. It’s a joke we even have it. A connected Olmstead park is more important than people rushing out of the city at 5:00pm

  • djross2074

    These are all very cosmetic treatments. They won’t create a boulevard, just slow down the existing expressway. I guess it’s all we can expect from state DOT.

  • Nickel_City

    This is a nice move. Cant believe its actually hapPening. Cuomo seems to really be investing in WNY. Being from Dunkirk, i love the News of the new biotech factory being built there. I dont give a shit about what people elsewhere have to say about him, he gets shit done in WNY. The fact that the DOT is bringing in the same woman that planned the West Side Highway shows they actually care. Hopefully they do a good job and it will match with the rest of the park. Pretty refreshing to see people making a change and having their voices heard. Way to be persistent people

  • Rory Allen

    Josh, you seem like a pretty smart guy with a lot of bad information. First, 50 on the 198 has always been a bad idea. To make matters worse many people always push the limits and drive 7 to 10 mph over the speed limit. Cars going 60 between Parkside and Grant is crazy dangerous…especially for people getting off and on. Second, There is a direct relationship between how slow cars have to go (mostly because of the design of a road) and 1. The value of nearby property, 2. The desirability of being a pedestrian there, 3. The likelihood of new development nearby based on 1 and 2.

  • bufforward

    North Park blackolive David Steele  They need to stop dropping the facebook posts in the comments section, it really reduces the quality of conversation when half the posters might as well be spambots…

  • Woods79

    Ha ha i knew it was only a matter of time before someone brought that dead cow around to milk again. What is dumb, is suggesting a speed increase for a less than 1 mile stretch of road will accomplish anything positive. The difference between 30 and 55 for that distance asSuming you dont slow down ahead of the ramp is 49 seconds.

  • Woods79

    WilliamsviLle has many lights and a SIDE STREET every 300 meters as well as on street parking and multiple business With rear and side parking lots. This comparison reminds of the cementheads in lamcaster who defended tHe redskins with the Argument, ” what iF someone was offended by the tigers because his uncle was mauled by a tIger, so should they chanGe that name too?” The comparison So unbelievable terrible it is tough to dignify.

  • Woods79

    It is horrifying to Think of what Someone Like you would do with that 8.67 extra hours of time. Something tells me YoUr commute doesnt preclude you from putting in extra time at work. You’d probaBly just end up checking your fantasy football 22 more times a day and search for reasons to holler at your wife in public.

  • David Saunders

    Well if I’m driving my bike from my house in the University Heights downtown with a headwind. And this is on my slower bike, yes it would take me about 30 mins to go 6 miles. But I would readily enjoy those 6 miles.

  • David Saunders

    So you’re against fixing the mistakes of the past which destroyed a national crown jewel of a park?

  • tjhorner1 Brad J Bethel Jr “Also, again, if you did know me, you’d know that what I do IS moving this city forward.  It happens to be part of my business…..”

    Yet that it not what you’re focused on in this topic.

    Raising the speed limit past the park is a ridiculous idea for two reasons:

    1) Having 45-50 mph bookend the 30 mph portion thru the park would only beckon drivers to blast thru the park completely disregarding the 30 mph portion. This “compromise” clings onto the delusion that it should only ever be an expressway.

    2) This is not just a one-off thing that people are going to shut up about once it’s said and done. This is actually the beginning of a holistic approach for the rest of the city. In addition to the discussion of Scajaquada are discussions on what to do with the 190 and 33 in their respective neighborhoods. And there are groups that have been at work with BOTH cases since the 1990s. The success of Scajaquada’s transition will largely determine the course of action for the 190 and Kensington Expressways. 

    Given how opposed the public was when these expressways were first implemented, given how long the city has suffered from poor planning, given the long-term changes we’re experiencing now, AND given how even those advocating to KEEP the damn expressways have conceded they were mistakes to begin with, asking for something better when the opportunity and evidence supports it is hardly what could be called elitism.

    Forbidding the city from overcoming its mistakes because suburbia won’t like it is elitism.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    North Park Northbuff  He posts (or at least likes comments) under ‘MITYOOfficial’ on here

  • Holly Hurley

    Micheal Young we were just discussing this on the drive home.

  • anti tree hugger

    Agree with you 100 percent cry babies dont like the truth !!!

  • bfloforthewin

    ma1acha1 Rand503 That’s so ridiculous. Your stupid comment took you two minutes to type. Keeping your mouth shut on BRO everyday will apparently save you $23,386 in salary over 20 years. There is your check.

  • Opuntia humifusa

    LeonEndres Opuntia humifusa grovercleveland Woods79 I do everyday. Time yourself next time, please. The only time it has ever been close to 30 minutes was during Old Homes Day, in which case I took a different route. Thankfully, for the 198, there are many more alternative routes to take than Main in Williamsville.

  • TV62

    yup11 I agree with you, and can’t believe it’s not even part of the official discussion. It’s been done in other places; yes, at a great cost, but also with positive outcome. Seattle, I believe, is also burying a highway. If a tunnel is built, both sides benefit. The park could then extend right up to the fence at Forest Lawn …and now I too brace for someone to bite my head off, or to make a passive-agressive comment.

  • ma1acha1

    Rand503 ma1acha1 Woods79 
    Rand at least a few people here have said residents of the suburbs have no say on what happens in the city.  So under their logic, you, living in Washington DC, chiming in, are dismissed.
    Further I’m amused how many park mongers have expertise in other fields.  Suddenly you are a doctor.  I’m not surprised because I’ve run into arm chair civil and traffic engineers, historians, and seers with ability to predict the future.  I’m not pretending to be any of those.  I do know when I’m being bamboozled.  Sold a bill of goods.  All I’m asking is for studies, surveys, maybe some science that proves this is for the majority.  The 198 is not a weapon of mass destruction.  You guys come off awful self righteous deciding what is quality of life and who gets it.  If these changes are good for all of Buffalo why not vote on it?

  • ma1acha1

    DanteDAnthony ma1acha1 Woods79 
    Who are you to decide what elements make up quality of life?!!  Should I just move to the city?  Take the bus?  Should I just eat cake too?  Who made Parkside royalty that gets to decide what quality of life is?  I’M A CITIZEN OF BUFFALO YOU JACKASS.  

    So property values suffer?  Last year average Buffalo home: 95K
    http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Buffalo-New_York/market-trends/
    Look at link below.  Seems houses on Humboldt and other side from park are worth about a quarter million dollars.

      http://www.zillow.com/parkside-buffalo-ny/
    So go away with the lower property values bullshit.

  • ma1acha1

    Woods79 Again with the personal attacks and assumptions.  You are as inaccurate about my personal life as you are about the 198.
    In Japan there were a rash of suicides from people jumping in front of high speed trains.  It stopped when they enacted a law where the jumper’s family would be financially liable to all those delayed on the trains.   

    Its not about me.  Its about 35, 50, or 70 thousand people that use the 198 every day.  My 8.67 hours multiplied across all those people is years lost.  How come their family time is worth less than yours?  Time is money and quality of life.  Personally I don’t go to certain areas of the city because snarled traffic or no place to park.  Stifling traffic to improve your leisure time or view may not improve quality of life for ALL Buffalo.

  • ma1acha1

    1.  I reject that property values by the 198 are suffering.  Last year average Buffalo home: 95K
    http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Buffalo-New_York/market-trends/
    Look at link below.  Seems houses on Humboldt and other side from park are worth about a quarter million dollars.

    http://www.zillow.com/parkside-buffalo-ny/
    2.  Deleware park is 1.7 miles of walk path alone.  Walk over the Deleware bridge down to the spiral overhead bridge and you can access more paths to the Marcy Casino, Rumsey woods, or all the way to the river via Scajacuada trail.  Miles of walk path already exits.  
    Someone will get killed there if you put in walk or bike paths.  Don’t kid yourself.  Even at 30mph.  This is the hypocrisy of the “safety” argument.  
    3.  Projected development is pure speculation.  See maps above: is there any land being freed up that isn’t spoken for?  Humboldt is a parkway so no stores.  So you think Parkside Community Association is going to let houses be torn down for development – you’re dreaming!

  • Wemmul

    Great. Now can we get rid of that huge waste of real estate where the 198 merges with the 190?

  • Wise Profit

    tjhorner1 Wise Profit grovercleveland  No, but genereally when I voice my opinion its about something that’s reasonable. Grovercleveland made a classic straw man argument – that is an argument that HE put forth and is now debating against himself on.

  • Wise Profit

    tjhorner1 Brad J Bethel Jr  I’m not on a stool, I’m simply refuting your terrible arguments with completely reasonable suggestions for these apparent tens of thousands of people who know only 1 single way in and out of the city, that don’t have a GPS or a map and are afraid of the city and cannot be troubled with any change to their route, WHICH AGAIN IS REMAINING IN THE SAME F$%ING LOCATION, but at a lower speed.

    I find new parts of the city frequently. New routes through troubled areas. Its not really that scary. In college I walked from Chippewa back to my apartment at Canisius by myself at 3 a.m. and then again from Allen to Canisius on another occasion. I had no map, no smartphone with a GPS and for that matter I was fairly intoxicated and gasp! I’m alive to tell the tales.

  • Wise Profit

    tjhorner1 Wise Profit Brad J Bethel Jr  I live in the area bounded by Colvin, Parkside, Hertel & Linden. Anything else you need to know?

  • Wise Profit

    neverchange tjhorner1  Highways are more dangerous when 50% of the people go the speed limit and the remaining 50% go double the speed limit.

    The latter 50% don’t have any regard for other’s safety, only their time which apparently must be very limited.

  • LouisTully

    LeonEndres LouisTully Yeah, the Buffalo River has had quite a history.  And now they’re building entertainment destinations and housing.  Wild!  But let’s just keep it as filth.  Because that’s what we’ve turned it into.  Forget trying to fix or change anything.

  • Opuntia humifusa

    tjhorner1 It’s pretty simple to learn, how scared/dumb do you think people are?

  • tjhorner1

    Wise Profit tjhorner1You should change your name to @conjecture or @everybodyisjustlikeme or maybe @Imintolerantoallwhocantbeasawesomeasiam

  • tjhorner1

    Opuntia humifusa tjhorner1 You’d be surprised.  

    I’m going to recommend you take the bus out to the suburbs and make some friends out there.  You’ll soon realize that 900,000 of the county’s 1,150,000 people (aka, the LARGE majority) live in the suburbs.  Many aren’t familiar with the city, and think that it’s a crime ridden, traffic nightmare.  It’s not reality, but among the older crowd…the ones with a higher disposable income that you would want coming into he city….it is perception, no matter how dated that perception is.  

    There are people that I work with that stopped coming into the city solely in protest of the lower speed limit.  As ridiculous as that is, its happening….a whole lot more than you care to believe.

  • MichaelBelfatto

    Maybe if people knew how to operate their vehicles this wouldn’t be a problem.

  • GangeLeadin

    Wemmul about 7500 people use that daily?

  • LouisTully

    TV62 yup11 I don’t disagree it could be part of the discussion.  I just don’t think it’s at all pragmatic.  Those other places where it happens have far greater populations and the money to spend on such costly projects.  I just don’t think this problem requires such a complex solution.  Lord, look at how awful Boston’s Big Dig went.  It’s the case study in overruns, among other things.

    Like everything, compromise and cooperation would likely find the best resolution for all concerned parties.

  • LouisTully

    GangeLeadin Wemmul Yeah and it’s the reason for such intelligent contributions as the cesspool known as Scajaquada Creek and dumpy buildings and junkyards.  That tangle of ramps and interchanges suffocates any potential for that area.  Maybe it’s just how it has to be.  I think it could be designed better.  I think a better design would be less costly to maintain in the long-term and would be a boon for that area.  Remember, Niagara Street is seeing a rebirth and that could easily spread, connecting the entire area around Scajaquada Creek/Niagara.

  • Rand503

    ma1acha1 Rand503 Woods79 And you come off as a high strung narcissist who only cares about how much time you lose standing at a traffic light, as though it will make any difference in your life.  

    I’m certainly willing to listen to everyone on this issue, but you have made it clear that your concerns are paramount, and that the concerns of everyone else are worthless.  As for the other side, they are willing to keep the road, just downgrade it.  They would prefer to eliminate the roadway altogether, so just accepting any road is a compromise.  What are you willing to compromise on?  Nothing, as far as I can see.  

    Furthermore, you have not even given any consideration to ANYTHING other than your three minutes lost in the commute.  Not to the quality of the park, the residents, the other drivers who are fine with a slower road, nothing at all.  

    There are plenty of studies.  They all say the same thing — slower traffic equals fewer accidents and fewer deaths from accidents.  It’s pretty much standard traffic instruction.  But that doesn’t convince you, so I don’t think any thing would. 

    So yeah, it’s pretty clear you are the self righteous person.

  • sls215

    I don’t think it’s necessary to completely shut down the 198. The lowering of the speed limit was reasonable (but more so to 35 or 40). For the residents who think it will make the neighborhood safer…please realize that the traffic will move from the 198 to residential streets where there are more children playing and more pedestrians crossing the streets to get to their homes…causing more of an instance of an accident. My street connects Parkside to Delaware and traffic has increased significantly since the lowering of the speed limit on the 198. Keep the 198…but the barriers and decrease in speed limit should be as far as this project goes. No crosswalks should be put in and no traffic lights please!

  • LouisTully

    GangeLeadin ?

  • sls215

    Do you drive down Hertel or Amherst at rush hour? If not…then I would refrain from saying pull the 198 all together. The expressway alleviates traffic from those streets allowing a safer commute for both drivers and pedestrians. Hertel and Amherst are only 2 lane roads with a turn lane….there is no way they could accommodate for the added traffic from a 4 lane expressway. Buffalo is growing…why would we want to deter that fact by taking away means of easier transportation to and from major arterial highways leading downtown (33 and 190). I’m all for the lowering of the speed limit and the barriers…but to remove the expressway entirely is regression…and Buffalo has had enough of that over the last several decades!

  • LouisTully

    GangeLeadin I’m missing the connection.  You mean if the traffic was dispersed from the 198?

  • GangeLeadin

    LouisTully yeah like timing adjustments on Elmwood, Delaware and Main.  Sorry for thread jacking.

  • GangeLeadin

    djross2074 There is another public hearing in May.

  • neverchange

    Brad J Bethel Jr  I thought deciding what’s best for everyone was your avocation?

  • neverchange

    Wise Profit neverchange tjhorner1  An this relates to my point in what way? BTW, can you give me the source of your data please?

  • ma1acha1

    Brad J Bethel Jr 
    Brad you need to educate yourself on real estate.  Use the Zillow map below and scroll over house values bordering the 198. 
     http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Buffalo-NY/pmf,pf_pt/17222_rid/any_days/42.929824,-78.85029,42.926693,-78.855065_rect/17_zm/
    EVERY house that borders the 198 between Deleware and main is worth over $200,000.  Most over 250.
    The average Buffalo home cost last year was 95K
     http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Buffalo-New_York/market-trends/
    How did the 198 devalue homes that are 2.5 times the cost of average?  I can’t afford to live there.  How much more quality of life do people with 1/4 million dollar homes need?!

  • monkeymoon

    WOW celebrate, lets have a Scajaquada Party, close it for a parade.

  • OldFirstWard

    If tunneling is out of the question, and it shouldn’t be, why not lower the road and cover it?

  • GangeLeadin

    ma1acha1 property values will go up slightly after the additional features are added to the affected neighborhoods.

  • GangeLeadin

    ma1acha1 here is some information about vehicular fatalities in NYS  http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-30/ncsa/STSI/36_NY/2014/36_NY_2014.htm

  • ma1acha1

    GangeLeadin ma1acha1 
    I apologize but could you help me understand how the data in that link applies to the 198?
    Data is for all of New York State.  Overall fatalities are dropping.  There were speed related fatalities but it doesn’t say where or how fast?  The accident last May was never attributed to speeding that I understand.

  • GangeLeadin

    Any Idea of how many fatalities on the 198? Erie county is about 50/year

  • ma1acha1

    GangeLeadin ma1acha1 
    Agreed but how much farther do they need to go?  If reasoning is that we need to improve already high property values while other neighborhoods languish I find that unconscionable.

  • GangeLeadin

    Maybe the money should go to impoverished areas

  • ma1acha1

    GangeLeadin 
    Sean Ryan and the Parkside Community Association don’t lobby for impoverished areas.  Yet oppose this project and your civic pride will come into question?

  • pyrofiler

    Brad J Bethel Jr I purchased my home on the West Side years ago specifically because of its proximity to the multiple 198 and 190 on-ramps and the ease of getting to the 33 and 90E AS WELL AS the ease of getting to the multiple parks in the area.  I’m all for making things safer, but if you’re going to drop the 198 permanently into boulevard status, at least provide an alternate means that doesn’t screw the city residents’ ease to get to to points north and east.  That is a quality of life measure as well.

    And yes, home values on the West Side are gradually climbing again, but it was doing that long before the DOT grossly overapplied Cuomo’s directive to decrease the speed of the 198 that bordered Delaware Park.  They’ve been going up because of the thriving Elmwood neighborhood and the gradual re-gentrification of Grant St, the younger families and individuals moving into the area and those willing to invest into the neighborhoods.  My property value is up.  I just purchased another house in the area to rehab as well.  I want to stay and do not want to live in the suburbs, but maybe in a decade I might rethink that as the commute gets worse.

    tl;dr: Provide a viable alternative where both motor vehicles and walkers/bikers/skaters/kids/etc. can co-exist.  Safety and convenience do not have to be at war with each other.

  • Nancy DiStasio

    I’m sorry I just don’t get this. I grew up a couple blocks away from this road and still use it. Why make the whole length of it 30???? There is only a small segment that is near the park. The rest of it (especially near Buff State) is industrial looking. Compromise and make the section near the park 30/35 and the rest 45. Put up barricades to protect pedestrians. And throw up a couple more overhead bridges (at Medaille and Buff State.) We need to put more $ into this drug problem and increase HS grad rate. Not a road.

  • robins36

    Rand503 ma1acha1 Woods79 Agreed – I think keeping it a 4-lane, 30mph boulevard is an awful lot of compromise for those of us that might prefer a two-lane park road or no road at all.
    Many of the commenters on here opposed to this development just want to keep the road a high-speed expressway, which is an absolute position without any room for compromise. And yet we’re the ones painted as the obstructionists?

  • LouisTully

    Ah, industrial looking.  It isn’t anymore, and is striving for new uses.  And is on the edge of a Niagara Street on the cusp of bursting on the scene.  If there wasn’t an elevated expressway there it would be prime for redevelopment.  It is, in fact.  The old Westswood plant is supposed to become student housing.  No more stifling expressway and the rest would fall. And Scajaquada Creek could be restored to a more proper stature.
    If you’re worried about money, continuing support of  spending large sums for unnecessary infrastructure is a start.
    F-ing facebook.  They can’t read this crap anyway can they?

  • LouisTully

    OldFirstWard It should certainly be part of the conversation.  But it should never emerge as a true consideration.  It would be an obscenely ridiculous expenditure of money and construction resources.  Just like covering the 33 would be.

  • LouisTully

    GangeLeadin LouisTully Which part?

  • Rj Marvin

    THIS SPEED LIMIT IS GOING TO RUIN MY DRIVE TIME COMMUTE! *sits in a Tim Hortons drive thru for 8 minutes*

  • I’ve thrown the tunnel idea out there and gotten roasted for it (who will pay for this!!?? as we piss trillions away on questionable foreign wars) but one would think since the suburbanites hate the city so much, a tunnel from the suburbs to their sacred grove parking lots in the CBD would give them cause to chant, sing and dance and sacrifice a tree or two) but but…no because COST.

    Cost. Let’s examine that for a moment (especially pertinent at this time as Sanders is proposing a political and economic revolution.

    First of all,

    1.)  the world is operating on fiat currencies. There in no gold standard-money is created at will. Currently, however, it is created at will and then lent to the banks at interest, for them to control.

    2.) The banks are then given leave to lend out TEN TIMES (fractional reserve lending) what they have in fractional reserve lending and earn interest on that money that, well, doesn’t exist and only exists as debt…earning interest from thin air (but heaven forbid we raise the minimum wage because labor earning a living wage is horrible, but banks earning trillions in interest fees from thin air is…THE SYSTEM). 

    3.) Since Constitutionally the Government has the right to issue currency and not pay interest on it, well, why pay interest on that money at all? Issue it for public purpose projects etc, and the money supply will directly be controlled by elected representatives of the people, for public purpose, interest free, rather than for investors (who like to invest in Pharmaceuticals instead of bridges and tunnels because, well, the pharmaceutical lobby has us banged in the-) 

    Nope. Build their freeways through the world class masterpieces of the city’s park systems, bypass the retails streets altogether, sit as the drive through (where the minimum wage worker prepare your breakfast for slave wages), rinse, repeat, and make sure that mortgage to the bank is paid (because you OWN THEM…for money that never existed which you had no representation in the issuing of and over the next three decades your payments will be largely on the interest on the money that never existed and when you sell you house in all reality it will be a huge net loss-to the bank-and you will have the illusion of a capital gain…and drive away to the second rate senior center where whatever you managed to amass over the decades of driving to work to pay the bank for the money that never existed will be GONE because, well, Health care is Socialist…bitch.). 

    Cream and sugar and a Mc****you cholesteral samich. I’m in a hurry, dammit, what’s wrong with you people in there?

  • GangeLeadin
  • Like I said before, the 198 should be  entirely removed. Back to the drawing board.

  • GangeLeadin

    Matt Ricchiazzi Why are you repeating yourself?

  • GangeLeadin DanteDAnthony http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/america-war-93-time-222-239-years-since-1776.html

    My mother’s family arrived from Germany in the 1750s. Their firstborn in America was killed in the Revolutionary war fighting the British in New Hampshire. They have a book, “Wardners in America” that lists the numerous family members who fought in all the wars America engaged in. My father’s family arrived in 1910 and managed to serve at IWO and Inchon. I served 8 years reserve-I have every respect for American Service Men and Women-my niece is an officer in Army Intelligence. 

    Still, I think many of the wars, especially since WWII, are arguably scenarios the nation would have been better served avoiding.

  • pskeptic

    GangeLeadin Like the area around the 198 and the 33, all of which suffered from their installation?

  • pskeptic

    Not my city.  While I’d prefer 270 routed around, I don’t stick my fingers in other city’s affairs like David Steele does.

  • pskeptic

    ma1acha1 Opuntia humifusa Woods79 So, perhaps your problem is living so far from your workplace…
    You use the 198 for your commute, and you live in Lancaster?  There’s your problem.

  • daugspurger

    LouisTully The DOT expressly stated that they will not be revising either end of the expressway due to the expense.

  • BeardedBuffalonian

    What about people rushing into the city from the suburbs, or people in the city who use it multiple times a day?

  • daugspurger

    What are you really connecting? A sliver of land between Nottingham and the expressway? The City Parks building to the Delaware Park walking ring? The cemetary to what? If we are going to spend $150 million dollars, I would like to think it would go to something more meaningful to the city development than trying to fix something that isn’t really broken. Spend it on reuniting some parts of Humboldt Parkway along the Kensington Expressway. Now THAT is worth fixing.

  • Pingback: faux bague antoinette van cleef()

  • Farras09

    “In a surprise move, the NYS Department of Transportation (NYSDOT) actually did the right thing, and instead of thinking solely about the cars, they took into consideration the people.”

    Can you write your articles with a shred of impartiality and take into account the numerous readers of your blog that wanted the 198 to return to being an expressway?

    • TJ

      Awww, are motorists not being sufficiently respected? What a tragedy!

      • Farras09

        Yes. My general feeling that articles should be written from a neutral standpoint is me whining about respect. I forgot good journalism is inherently biased.

        I also appreciate how your comment was clearly designed to do nothing other than incite an emotional response from me rather than try to engage in any form of debate on the topic. Solid.

  • Nancy Polanski

    The NYSDOT did the right thing by taking into consideration “the people?” Which people? Certainly not
    those who travel the Expressway on a regular basis. Because the
    Expressway was indeed intended solely for cars, not pedestrians.

    The accident involving the death of a child two years ago was not related to speeding, so what was the real reason the speed limit was changed?

    Also, merging into traffic is much more convenient than coming to a stop and waiting. I’m positive that there has never been an accident due to cars merging into traffic.

    For over 50 years, the 198 has successfully served to expedite traffic at 50 miles an hour, with additional vehicles easily merging onto it. There was no good reason to change it. It is now an annoying inconvenience to those of us who use it regularly.