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Children’s Hospital: The Proposals Are In!

Four development teams gathered this evening in the Mary Seton Room at Kleinhans Music Hall to present to the public their proposals for the reuse of Women & Children’s Hospital of Buffalo. The property includes seven interconnected buildings between Bryant Street and Hodge Avenue. Also included are several properties on West Utica Street. A fifth proposal from Pyramid Brokerage was rejected because it proposed reuse of only a portion of the site.

The meeting opened with Mike Hughes, Senior Vice President at Kaleida, who stated, “these are very exciting times for our community.”

Concerns of neighbors, leaders and citizens are important to the reuse process according to Hughes. “What becomes of this space must be guided by community values preserving the character and charm of the Elmwood Village and must contribute to the quality of life of the neighborhood.”

Developers who submitted bids were Ciminelli Real Estate Corp., Ellicott Development Co., Sinatra & Company Real Estate, and Uniland Development Co.


 

Sinatra

Sinatra & Company Real Estate:

According to company president, Nick Sinatra, “As one of the largest owners of real estate in the Elmwood Village, we have a vested interest in retaining the existing character and balance of the neighborhood; therefore, it’s a site we are interested in ensuring becomes a reflection of the existing fabric.”

Amy Nagy, project manager stated, “Our designs are intended to complement with existing designs in the Elmwood Village.” She emphasized that this project would be managed with high regard to public input.

$161 million, privately funded proposal, capitalized through existing capital partners, the Prtizer/Vlock Family Office, and in collaboration with Essex Homes of Western New York under the Nanula family’s direction, JTVaeth Construction, and Ontario Specialty Contracting along with architectural and engineering contributions from Carmina Wood Morris and Wendel.

  • Multi-use facilities
  • Newly constructed, market rate housing
  • 65% residential including an estimated 50 townhomes, 300 market-rate apartments and 50 upscale condominiums over three phases on Hodge and Bryant
  • Nonresidential uses include adaptive reuse of existing structures for educational or organizational use as well as loft and medical space on Bryant
  • 30,000 square foot Dash’s Market grocery store at the corner of Elmwood and Hodge (on the site of Casa-di-Pizza, owned by Sinatra and outside of the Kaleida footprint)
  • Retail and restaurant space, Sinatra’s, on the corner of Elmwood and Bryant
  • Use for historic structures
  • Significant green space and public art project
  • Reuse for Gallagher Ramp
  • Three phases will allow for phases 1 and 2 to begin before Kaleida vacates
  • Phase 1 on Utica, townhomes
  • Phase 2 Dash’s Market with apartments above
  • Phase 3, main hospital, upscale condos, 122 apartments, charter education, retail and restaurant space

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Uniland

Uniland Development Co:

“Bryant Park”

Working in conjunction with Stieglitz Snyder Architecture and The Trust for Public Land to incorporate public park space. The heart of the proposal is a 75,000-square-foot park designed to connect various uses on the property, bisect buildings and intersect with Bryant and Hodge, creating a walkable community and neighborhood amenity. Uniland would transform Variety Tower, Tanner and Alfiero buildings into One Bryant Park through adaptive reuse. The building would host up to 149 apartments, commercial office space and ground floor retail. The property could include underground parking and a rooftop garden for tenant use.

  • Four season open green space
  • Selective demolition of buildings that are not conducive to reuse
  • One Bryant Park – Variety Tower, Tanner and Alfiero buildings to become first floor lobby with retail space, restaurant, apartments, and commercial space
  • Two Bryant Park – Restore historic façade of the Annex and redesign for condominiums
  • Three Bryant Park – residential and commercial
  • Four Bryant park – boutique hotel or charter school
  • 125 Hodge to be commercial space, perhaps daycare center
  • 445 Elmwood and 130 Hodge will be new-builds and mixed use center with ground floor retail and loft style apartments
  • 200 West Utica to become grocery store, community center and/or recreational use
  • 233 new parking spaces to increase total number of spots to over 800

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“Bryant Park is a concept that right-sizes the density of the current site to create a dynamic, mixed-use community that enhances the existing diversity of the Elmwood Village by providing a new public park, residences, retail and offices. The vision strives to strike a balance of desired activity level for surrounding residents and local businesses,” said Kellena Kane, Real Estate Development Manager at Uniland.

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Ciminelli

Ciminelli Real Estate Corp.:

“Queenslight Project”

Paul Ciminelli described this project as a “Once in a generation project, a legacy project.”

Their proposal is a collaboration with LP Ciminelli, Cannon Design, Charles Gordon Architecture, Allpro Parking, The Martin Group, Barbara A. Campagna Architecture and Planning along with input from Resource Art, Delaware Soccer Club, Tapestry Charter School, EduKids, INNVest Lodging Services, Spark Buffalo and the Albright Knox Art Gallery.

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  • Key features are neighborliness, inclusiveness, vibrancy, sustainability
  • Corner of Elmwood and Hodge, apartments and town homes
  • Bryant, preservation Annex and townhouses in Variety Tower
  • Retail along Elmwood and Bryant
  • InnVest boutique hotel on Bryant
  • Alfiero Building to become Tapestry Charter School with green park connecting to Hodge
  • Parking on Hodge with three levels of underground parking and residences
  • Utica space will become indoor/outdoor sports/soccer park
  • Green space and public art

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Ellicott

Ellicott Development Co.:

“The Elmwood Center”

Tom Fox, William Paladino, Carl Paladino described their proposal as a simple and practical reuse of existing facilities, absent of large scale demolition with a repurpose of existing buildings. According to William Paladino, the three key components are to compliment neighborhood, provide community access to spaces, and minimization of physical impact to the community with minimal demo and construction.

  • Phase 1, Spring 2018
    • 64 apartments, studio, 1, 2 and 3 bedroom with mid-market to high-end rental rates
    • Restoration to existing historical buildings on Hodge
    • Tanner Building to become independent senior housing with 89 units and a number of amenities and transportation services
    • Variety Tower to house hotel with 152 rooms, restaurant, banquet and conference facilities, indoor pool and fitness, medical and office space, and day care facility
    • Annex Building will contain grammar charter school with gymnasium
    • On Utica will be a grocery store and Performing Arts Center for local high school with accessibility to the community as well as Civic Center
  • Phase 2, Summer 2019
    • Mixed use at Elmwood and Bryant with retail and office space as well as 24 apartments
    • Mixed use space on Utica to the east of Gallagher ramp for retail and medical office space
  • Parking plan is to construct and elevated walkway to ramp with surface parking in rear

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According to Kaleida officials, community involvement is necessary and expected. Send your comments in an email at wchobreuse@kaleidahealth.org.

Written by Holly Metz Doyle

Holly Metz Doyle

A Buffalo native, Holly spent quite a bit of time traveling the globe, but after living on the West coast for a bit was called back to her roots in Western New York. She tries to devote as much of her time doing the things she loves most, enjoying the outdoors, hanging out with her two daughters Sophie and Amelia, playing with her family's many rescued animals, checking out estate sales and old houses, crossfitting and, of course, writing.

View All Articles by Holly Metz Doyle
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  • Courtney Boland

    Kimberly Conrad did you see this

  • ohmygodrob

    And Sinatra wins. Everybody can go home.

  • KristinaKlausen

    I believe the best result is sinatra. …best upscale reuse and show a boost to a new buffalo! something to be proud of! Great job!

  • Stan Da Man

    Yeah, Sinatra wins on the grocery store alone.

    Shame we can’t build a new Science Museum on the property. The old one is small and in a terrible part of town.

  • Carrotflower

    Hey Newell, if you’re going to redesign the site – and don’t get me wrong, I like what I’ve seen so far – can we end this failed experiment of copying Facebook comments into the website’s comment section?

  • Carrotflower

    Adding one to the pro-Sinatra column, but Ellicott is a solid second place.

  • I’m REALLY torn on which one is the best — they all present strong pros, some have cons.
    I like the idea of the Dash’s grocery store, because although it’s not the most upscale grocer in town, it would still provide groceries to that area. That’s what’s missing in the E.V.
    The Ellicott one is interesting, but it feels like they put the least amount of effort into it.
    Even the townhomes in the one proposal were pretty amazing.

    If I had to pick a winner, I’d say Sinatra comes out on top.

  • Carrotflower lol…it’s an interesting feature of Livefyre, but it’s like talking to a brick wall.

    I tried it on my test blog and I wasn’t all that crazy about it.

  • smills

    I think the Sinatra proposal is BEST but that demolition could be a hangup in the selection process.

  • As someone else recently said, it would be nice if the site could be the marriage of the architecture of the Uniland proposal with the bold vision of the Sinatra one.

  • MartinMcGee

    Sinatra proposal is hands down the best.

  • Carrotflower

    Buffaboy Carrotflower Plus sometimes I like to post the same comment on both Facebook and the site in order to reach two different audiences, and I’d rather not have them both show up on the comment thread. I suppose it’s pointless not to just comment on Facebook only and wait for it to show up here, because everyone here already knows my real name from matching up the two identical comments – that’s what I was trying to avoid – but on principle, it sucks.

  • Jumpingbuffalo

    Sinatra is a clear winner with its plans.  I have a feeling that current residents won’t like it as it increases traffic and density – even though it will greatly improves the walkability in this part of Elmwood.  Ciminelli is second but I appreciate their interesting park plans.
    Ellicott Development’s plan doesn’t really change the existing footprint as much as is needed.
    Uniland’s plan seems to be the least creative of the bunch.

  • Carrotflower

    Jumpingbuffalo People who don’t like density should move to the suburbs.

  • NorthBuf

    Carrotflower Jumpingbuffalo It’s easy to stop density in the city as we just saw on Inwood.  And im sure Hodge/bryant residents will be equally as vocal in trying to squash progress

  • NYC5475

    Add me to the Sinatra column.

  • Lake Effect

    i apologize for the all caps. livefYre wint let me turn them off ever since i tried to follow the facebook linkU0001f615
    While the Sinatra proposal was the least polished, I believe it has the best vision. There were some concerns expressed about parking, as he did not focus on it during the presentation, but there are plans for under the new towers. I like that his plan calls for development to start before Kaleida vacates the site. It would bring much needed density to this part of Elmwood. The townhouses on Utica would really help that part of the neighborhood.
    While Ciminelli’s soccer field idea is interesting, I would be worried it would become a desolate, wind swept tundra in winter, and not contribute to any urban density. Uniland’s plan feels too suburban. Ellicott’s plan is rather unimaginative. It would still look like the hospital was there, but would be senior housing instead. Aren’t we already doing that nearby?

  • Kimberly Conrad

    Watched meeting live!

  • Samuele Pardini

    I like Sinatra’s plan the best.

  • Courtney Boland

    I knew you’d be all over that like a cat!

  • Mark Nojaim

    No way. Ciminelli is on it!

  • Davvid

    Definitely Ciminelli

  • Lisa Ellen

    Can we implode that awful apartment building at Utica and Elmwood? Blahhhh I hate that corner! U0001f44d

  • Davvid

    ohmygodrob It has the corniest Disney architecture by far.

  • foreverbflo

    Sinatra.
    Carl’s…? Gimme a f break. My goodness.

  • Sean Miller

    That building is fine. Considering directly across the street is the dinky FN building and parking lot, and just a short trek away from that is the awful looking Verizon building, and that apartment building that seems perpetually in disrepair at Elmwood and Lexington, I don’t think the building at Utica that adds good density, is built to the street, and is mixed used is really the redevelopment battle to choose anytime soon.
    /longwinded rant.

  • RPreskop

    CIminellI Has the best redevelopment proposal. Although I do like the EllicotT redevelopment proposal as well because it renovates and repurposes all existing buildings on the site.

  • Lisa Ellen

    Sean Miller I honestly have hated that whole block for years … It has always been the red headed step child of Elmwood, in my opinion. Good things are happening and maybe that apartment will seem a little more at home. U0001f44dU0001f642

  • LouisTully

    Sinatra.

  • LouisTully

    Stan Da Man He already owns that site.  Can probably happen anyway even if he doesn’t win

  • RPreskop

    That is a beutiful brick apartment building. You are foolish for wanting it imploded. Instead go implode that hideous shoreline Apartments on Niagara Street near city hall.

  • LouisTully

    Over-under on this happening before 2025?  If Gates Circle is a fight this is gonna be….  See ya next decade!

  • Sinatra.

  • No_Illusions

    Sinatra definitely has the plan that best makes use of the space.
    The parking garage is key to support this dense of a development without neighbors complaining about parking issues.
    I kind of like the soccer field from ciminelli, but there is a lot of other space left over.
    Uniland’s plan is a joke and the least attractive.
    Ellicott’s PLan just seems to be a mash of different ideas.

  • Brian Doyle

    Sinatra brings the most density, which is what this city needs more than anything.

  • No_Illusions

    Totally ridiculous.
    You live in a city, density is good.
    Residences require significantly less parking spaces than hospitals.

  • MatthewMoje

    Sinatra’s plan is the winner, wish there was a little more parking for dash’s, maybe underground. 

    2016 is becoming the year of the grocery store in buffalo.  possibly planned for elmwood, gate circle, 201 Elliott (if that ever happens), new lexington co-op, whole foods in amherst.  Not complaining, just pointing out.

  • LouisTully

    No_Illusions “Ellicott’s PLan just seems to be a mash of different ideas.”
    lol like the Tupper project.

  • Mark Nojaim

    Bryan, where have you been? Montante is dealing with an ugly proposal at Gate Circle that is offering too much density as well as Frizlen on Potomac! The city doesn’t need more density but needs more quality development.

  • Julie Hage

    Sinatra all the way… Continuing the feel from elmwood and bid well to the neglected portion of Elmwood. Sinatra gets it right!!!

  • Christopher Glenn Johnson

    Jeffrey Knight Matthew Morreale what do you prefer?

  • RaChaCha

    I was at the presentation, and the Uniland’s “Byrant Park” project is a home run. People didn’t just clap, they cheered. Involving the Trust for Public Land — Adrianne Benepe in particular, who knows Buffalo — currently, the top national experts on urban parks, was a very savvy move. Uniland’s approach uniquely solves some of the challenges involving historic preservation and adding public green space.
    I’m not easily impressed, but the Uniland approach, project, and team are winners. Outstanding work.

  • RaChaCha

    ArchiCAD Yes.

  • Jackie Lewis

    Sinatra’ s take on the power aspect was interesting and his also seemed the least cookie cutter. Plus, as a hotel operator I’m glad his plans didn’t call for yet another hotel!

  • Steven J. Carnevale

    My vote is for Sinatras plan!

  • No_Illusions

    Sinatra’s plan adds 800 residents to one of Buffalo’s hottest neighborhoods.
    It’s a home run as far as density is concerned.

  • Jeffrey Knight

    Definitely would LOVE the first or 4th one for what it would do for Utica.

  • Amy Becker

    From what I read, while they all agree upon mixed use residential/retail/office space, there are some key differences in approach. In my opinion,, I feel essentials like a grocery store (e.g. Dash’s) is key. There are so many great ideas! My favorites include the green space, charter school, performing arts center and boutique hotel. After that, it’s a matter of aesthetics. Personally, I like Sinatra’s proposal which emphasizes maintaining the existing scale of the neighborhood. I prefer the Sinatra plan especially for its adaptive reuse which maintains the historic facades, or at least their proportions. The most important thing is, though, that the needs and concerns of the immediate neighborhood community be respected & considered.

  • North Park

    Sinatra for the win. Love it.

  • Sean Miller

    What are you talking about? The Gates Circle development is anything but “too much density.”
    Greater density and quality development are not mutually exclusive.

  • Carolann Cepuchowski

    dump Ellicott. ugly as usual

  • 300miles

    ArchiCAD    I try to let a rendering sink in before making a judgment on it.    We need to strip away the dramatic clouds, mature trees, and romantic window lighting that distract from the actual architecture.   And also think about how it will be standing in front of it.   So I know what you mean about pretty pictures.   But to be honest, the pictures and writeup here don’t really say much about the Uniland proposal, while the Sinatra proposal has a lot of renderings for the various buildings.   For those that did attend and prefer the Uniland proposal – could you give more detail as to why you prefer it?   Because apparently the 3 pics shown here just aren’t doing it justice.

  • Jackie Lewis

    Having grown up a few b locks away I remember when that building was being built after the fire at Park Pharmacy, a childhood haunt. We went to a tree lighting ceremony there and I believe it was the first usage of Elmwood Village. When it first opened it was unlike anything in the neighborhood and gave a big city feel.

  • Jordan Then

    Having only reviewed the proposals on Buffalo Rising, as I was at the Delaware District Green Code meeting tonight, I prefer Sinatra’s plan. I would tweak the townhouses, as they appear to offer only garages to Utica, but overall I think that is the best plan.

  • Skrajeski

    Sinatra.  Hands down.

  • Todd Chapple

    Uniland is the worst. Sinatra’s plan adds max mixed use density and respects traditional retro designs! I like Ellicott’s ideas & designs but do not think the blocky office look fits the neighborhood but would look better in and around DT, the Larkin District, or even along Perry St in the Cobblestone area would work!

  • OldFirstWard

    Four Italian baby boomer gladiator developers in development match.  I love it. 
    Of the four proposals, Sinatra’s offers a more eclectic mix of buildings and styles that blend in much better with the neighborhood vernacular.  Three to four stories of very handsome buildings with an abundance of ‘stone’ material on the facades mixed in with slabs, balconies, lintels, and actual windows not just glass panels. Nice exterior accent lighting, awnings, pavers on the walkways and parking spaces,and some trees.
    The market building is a nice touch, though I wish it was another national chain make an entry into the market. The Dash’s rendering would be a beautiful fit in that downtown lot on Ellicott St. 
    The West Utica townhouses are really interesting. The proportions seem to be just right. Not too big and not too small but just enough to please them all.
    I see the Wendel name on all the renderings but no sign of Carmina Wood Morris.  What is their contribution to the renderings on this project? 
    I think with some minor tweaking this design would be beautiful addition to the community.

  • smills

    I’d imagine the major criticism of the Uniland proposal is that it’s incredibly ugly.

  • Davvid

    smills But Sinatra’s is just as bad.

  • Stateofmind

    Ciminelli’s design and community involvement + Uniland’s park concept + Sinatra’s supermarket + tell Carl “thanks for playing” = winner

  • smills

    There are aspects of the Sinatra proposal I don’t like but I think it has the best framework of the bunch to be worked with.
    I think they also have by far the best proposal for the Elmwood parcel and I’m curious about their redevelopment of the former Casa building.

  • LouisTully

    ArchiCAD My opinion is the best and the rest of you are stupid.
    You sound annoying.  And created an account to share it.

  • OldFirstWard

    I will say this in all fairness, after watching the coverage of the proposals on the news just now, these renderings of the other three developers do not do any justice to their designs.  The designs looked much better when seen in color on tv rather than these rendering pictures that quite honestly look terrible on this site.  The photos here are devoid of color and life.  It is almost as though they were made to look bad. Sinatra seems to have the better views and color displayed as the first rendering shown. 
    I think that needs to said.

  • Trebor Neroht

    I agree. The sinatra proposal visually leaves no questions and the writeup doesn’t either. The unilabd plan leaves soooooo much unanswered. It does not look nice at all. Like where is this park supposed to even go? It doesn’t look accessible in the image.

  • Debbie Walker

    Ciminelli’s plan in conjunction with Cannon Design was the best. And including a charter school along with an amazing indoor/outdoor soccer complex – genius!

  • smills

    That’s what leaves me most skeptical about the Uniland plan. The park feels like it will really just end up as an large COURTYARd surrounded by apartment buildings on three SIDEs.
    Calling it a park is a much easier sell to the neighborhood though. I’m just not convinced it’s the asset people think it would be.

  • TonMan70

    Sinatra = best.  Nice materials, textures, setbacks, elegant overhangs/canopies, lighting fixtures, public destinations, varied design of W. Utica townhouses.

    Uniland = worst.  Sterile uninspired towers and public spaces.

    Ciminelli = Everything looks so predictably “office”-like. Townhouse design on Bryant are ugly.

    Ellicott = never.

  • ClassicView

    Would the 445 Elmwood rendering in Uniland’s proposal be an example of Brutalism? It reminds me of the BNs building on Washington St.

  • TonMan70

    ArchiCAD Ditto to ClassivView.
    Plus, you assume incorrectly what I’ve seen and where.

  • smills

    The Sinatra Elmwood proposals are the only ones that look decent in my opinion.
    The rest are horrid.

  • robins36

    The Science museum is in a very underlooked olmstead park…it can stay where it is.

  • TonMan70

    ArchiCAD (Wow, mommy showed you all caps technique.)
    Stilts on bldgs scream poor design/execution unless you’re on the Gulf Coast.
    Horrid west wall of hospital bldg. would look great in S. Korea.

  • smills

    Regardless of how many times you say it doesn’t make it true. We get it, you think your the only person in the world who’s seen the presentations and you like the idea of an awkward pocket park so anyone who disagrees knows nothing about design, context, and blah blah blah whatever other buzz words you want to throw out that you also don’t understand.
    Got it, great. You can stop saying it now.

  • TonMan70

    ArchiCAD Wow, so you and you alone know a lot about design?  Ok.  But you can’t read. My reference was to South Korea.  And your eyeballs are failing you. Dead corners in the courtyard and dark pass-throughs under buildings rely on stilts. The same stilt design provides an artistic (not) finish in the ground in the boring courtyard.
    Pull up your pants and make your way to bed now.  Mommy is done with you now. Nighty night.

  • TonMan70

    ClassicView Not Brutalism as it is “over-exposed” to the outside, especially if the upper floors will be lofts. You can imagine the full floor to ceiling windows will fully relate inside to outside and over share!

  • ClassicView

    TonMan70 ClassicView Thanks

  • TonMan70

    Stateofmind If you / others missed it, Sinatra would again (as he did with the Phoenix Brewery proj.) provide a portion (I don’t know how much) of the project’s value to the Say Yes To Education program. I believe that truly defines ‘community involvement’.

  • Localguy

    That building just needs a ground floor makeover, More retail like, less bland.

  • Good to see competing ideas for this valuable area of the city.  Let’s hope the neighborhood can embrace the plan that is eventually selected, and that it can be built in a timely fashion.

  • terrier1

    I was there and Uniland won the popular vote (applause) hands down. I live on Bryant and really appreciated their green space and use of Utica Street.

    The worst, by far, was Ellicott. They even started the presentation by admitting it wasn’t a “wow” like the others, but basically was cheap, uninspired and included LOTS of ground level parking.

    As a homeowner association member, I support Uniland 1st, then Sinatra and Ciminelli – tied for 2nd.

  • rockpile40

    I think the Ciminelli/Cannon proposal is really growing on me! Even though I was oooed & awwwed by Sinatra’s plan at first, and I really like the townhouses aspect of it a lot, the Ciminelli plan is more balanced, stream lined and well designed by Cannon! Maybe there’s a way to appease the other developers with their plans nearby and other parts of the city!

  • Todd Chapple

    I will say with a little more thought and time to digest all the plans, I believe the Ciminelli/Cannon proposal is far & away the best overall, and should be chosen!

  • jonny99

    The Dashe’s Market in Sinatra plan is on land already owned by sinatra, right? He is proposing the demo of the casa di Pizza Building. This can be accomplished wheather sinatra is chosen or not.

  • Rathman88

    Did any of the proposals incorporate a boxing club where everyone Trains naked? These are a big hit in other cities, as long as the Exterior of the building KeEps its architectual integrity, oF course.

  • nesciand

    Sinatra is so clearly the best plan, the most walkable plan and the best looking plan.  I absolutely love it.

  • nesciand

    Seeing a lot of praise for the Ciminelli plan and its the common mistake of confusing aesthetically pleasing green space with a successful and functional urban space.  Their plan does not look like it will greatly impact the walkability of the neighborhood.

  • nesciand

    TonMan70  Thank you thank you thank you

  • I’m usually an optimist.  These are all kind of underwhelming.

    Honestly, anything is an improvement upon what is there now.  Property values in and around this development will increase significantly.  I just had the hope that someone would come in with something a little more dynamic and a signature of “new urban living” in Buffalo. 

    I know they are not apples to apples, but the Gates Circle proposals were much more exciting and dynamic.  I would have thought the land (event how it is broken up) would have been more desirable at Childrens.

  • Flyguy2pt0

    I vote Sinatra Plan. Nice move converting old parking lot site on West Utica to townhomes. Prefer returning it to a more residential street rather than putting in soccer fields for instance as I see with another proposal. Seems an odd fit mid-block amongst residential thinking of active games, noise, night-time lighting? errant soccer balls, etc. Rather see a residential oriented street wall there. Overall just feels like a more fine tuned fit for that area. Renderings work for me.

  • New-ish Commenter

    Extremely underwhelmed by Ellicot.  Like that Ciminelli & Uniland want to keep the tower, but that’s about it.   Sinatra’s is definitely the best.  The urbanistic retail and grocery store seals it.  Really love the SInatra plan.

  • Jtown

    Tell you what the Sinatra plan is the wild card!

    That being said, it looks like the Ciminelli/Cannon plan is the most thought out and polished to me. It seems they wanted to balance improvements to the site with respecting the current neighborhood. The rendering of the building at Bryant and Elmwood looks great too. Just seems like this has the best chance of success. 

    ….but that Sinatra plan…even has a Dash’s….tough call…

  • RPreskop

    The Sinatra planS are very overrated and are a bit too suburban. Ciminelli is definitely the best and most creative plan for redevelopment.

  • Northbuff

    and the winner is Sinatra.

  • RPreskop

    Its Sinatra that needs to go home. You guys are overrating their mediocre plans which are boring and uninspiring.

  • nesciand

    RaChaCha  God I hope you’re not telling the truth, their plan is trash.  Absolute trash.  Ugly, uninventive, will not add long term value I promise.

  • grfn

    Sinatra.  Hands down.  How can you think otherwise?  It restores the fabric of W. Utica, will transform that section of Elmwood for the better.  I am not a fan of Dash’s, however living blocks away I can see myself shopping there when I don’t go to the Co-op.  The other plans are OK, but Sinatra has a much better vision.  Ellicott, yeah….way to bring your A game.

  • SoboRed

    How much money does the city get for the hospital and accompanying properties?  How much tax dolars will these plans generate?  Maybe we could have Ellicott build its Elmwood/Bryant building kitty corner to replace the Rite aid he so generously foisted on us so many years ago.

  • nesciand

    “233 new parking spaces to increase total number of spots to over 800 including existing spots”
    One huge reason Uniland’s plan is trash

  • grfn

    RaChaCha OK.  Do you work for Uniland?  I do find the Public space appealing, but other than that it is quite uninspiring, bland even.

  • nesciand

    grfn  Sinatra’s West Utica Town homes are so damn right I could cry

  • Bflojoe

    SoboRed None, the city doesn’t own it.

  • Correen Mccandless Hooton

    Don’t trust anything to go with Dash’s. The Budways grocery store on Kenmore was left abandoned with attempts to make it a warehouse. The ideas to make it an Italian market were scrapped in months. I would expect the same problem here!!

  • Wise Profit

    grfn  When Ellicott’s plan was being presented I almost laughed in the meeting. It looks more like a hospital than the current facilities. I got depressed just looking at the renderings.

  • Karen Zwolinkiewicz

    Demo existing building and put up single family homes.

  • BuffaLife

    Really like the Sinatra proposal and Ciminelli is a close second.

  • Bluffalove

    This is wonderful – real comprehensive plans with actual architecture (not like the Paladino hotel at Pearl St.). 

    I really like Ciminelli – the others less so but any of these would make a major improvement. Especially happy to see big focus on the parking lot at Elmwood/Bryant which gets love in every proposal.

  • Sabres00

    But it doesn’t fit the fabric of our community – Every BRO commenter.

  • Sabres00

    No

  • nesciand

    The site was loosing money very quickly, the construction on Kenmore Ave caused a drop in sales they couldn’t have predicted.  They were forced to shut down operations or they would have gone out of business in all of their locations.

  • Sabres00

    RaChaCha That’s too bad, it’s easily the worst.

  • North Park

    Sabres00  There just isn’t a return on investment for that. Unless you are talking about building mansions valued in the multi-millions. And I’m not sure a market exists for such luxury in large quantity such that it could be developed within the next couple years.

  • Rodney Copperbottom

    Sinatra is the only one that looks really really good. 

    Uniland is about as bland as you can get with a design. 
    CIMINELLI is okay, but feels like a college campus, and who really needs another soccer field in the USA? 

    ELLICOTT looks like a hospital.

  • Rodney Copperbottom

    BuffaLife Same here. Although Ciminelli is not even a close 2nd.

  • Wise Profit

    Rodney Copperbottom  Soccer is the third most played sport in the USA. There is no place for City of Buffalo residents to play in winter, except if they drive out to the burbs. Honestly I thought that was the best part of the Ciminelli proposal.

  • gaf1

    I’d like to step back a minute and say it doesn’t seem like Kaleida has learned much from the Gates process. The RFP was issued really late. The developers were told someone would be selected early March and now are saying mid-year and they will be pulling out in mid/late 2017? At least one developer talked about 18 months of planning and design after being chosen… That being said. early edge to Sinatra, though their plan felt more like bouncing ideas off a wall and showcasing the best ones. Their phased plan might have the most momentum for the site and not create add’l delays because the RFP process has taken forever.  I liked Ciminelli’s design for Bryant, but don’t love the soccer field (and kudos for underground parking.. Seemed like all the proposals were a bit underwhelming- charter school- day care- boutique hotel. meh. Nice to see all of them attacking the parking lot on the corner of elm/Bryant- ick… The Cannon people said they’ve done a lot of work at the hospital and feel the demo they want to do oh Hodge vs. historical restoration makes the most sense as the interior of that building has been gutted of the historical value- thought that was interesting….

  • Sinatra all the way

  • Mark Nojaim

    Attend a meeting.

  • nantz13

    Ellicott was bland
    Uniland was not impressive
    Sinatra’s was interestinG but do we Really need more real estate, high end apartments – Isnt that happening all around us, isn’t that wHat gates is about and that hasn’t been great to say the least.
    I like ciminelli/cannon – i like the design, i like the concept – out city families need a school our kids can go to, they need opportunities for families such as Being abLe to play soccer and not trek tO the burbs – the more you FoRce young families to have to travel to the suburbs for their famIlies the more You drive them out of the city and into the suburbs. They Have more opportunIties for better educatIon, extracurricular activities and so On. Helping tapestry to expand and Keeping it Local, providing a connection with delaware sOccer club gives that Opportunity to those families. You Want the city to grow make it worth growing up in. For those of you who don’t care about Soccer its not about you and the spoRt – not Every child wants to play football or hOckey – it’s not about the usa’s beloved sports – its about the needs of the people in thIs CiTy and we have plenty of restauranTs, plenty apartmEnts, plenty of grocery stoRes and office spaCes – we do not have plEnty of indOor facilties oR plenty of good schools to choose fRom – applying for Kindergarten in this city is like applying to college

  • Pig_Lightning

    nesciand Which goes to prove that Joe Dash is a bad businessman who shouldn’t be involved with a project you want to succeed.

  • terrier1

    Jtown  Sinatra already owns the old Casa di Pizza – they could build a Dash’s there with or w/o getting the bid to develop the Children’s property

  • TonMan70

    terrier1 You love green space, I love green space. But a mile or so to the south is Canalside and Outer Harbor, to the west is Front and Lasalle parks, and to the north–you guessed, is Delaware Park.  Enough green space exists in easy reach of the hospital site.  Let’s get dense, high yielding tax revenue from the site — not schools and other possible tax exempt projects.  With added revenue in hand, hopefully the City will be able to do a better job of maintaining the small parks in less privileged areas, as well as providing more pocket parks and public art throughout the City.

  • terrier1

    TonMan70 terrier1  Canalside is over 2 miles south and Delaware Park is almost that far (I check my Fitbit when I walk my dog!).
    One of the reasons that homes on Chapin and Lincoln Parkway are so valuable is the green space surrounding them. Same with the homes on Oakland Place and St. George’s Square. Uniland included lots of condo units…it just also included beautiful green spaces too – which will compliment the neighborhood.

  • North Park

    nantz13  What is with the intermittent use of CAPS LOCK. It looks like you cut out letters from a magazine for a ransom note. My eyes are bleeding.

  • smills

    Charter schools actually undermine the quality of education in the city, Not improve it.
    We also need more quality of everything you stated that we do not.

  • smills

    @northpark
    With the recent update, only capital letters show up when TYPING a COMMENT. It’s very aggravating. Fix this, Buffalo rising.

  • terrier1

    One other issue – we already have one charter school at the  corner of Delaware & Bryant – Oracle.
    That’s enough noise, aggravation and petty theft and vandalism for one neighborhood, thank you.

  • North Park

    terrier1  You’re anti-schools?

  • terrier1

    North Park terrier1  No..not at all. But we already have one charter school at the corner – and a Catholic school two blocks down on Delaware…why do we need another school half way down the block? Where will the buses park to discharge students? Bryant ?(a narrow street)…Oakland? (also a narrow residential street)

  • terrier1

    OldFirstWard  I was at the meeting. Nothing would help Ellicott’s insipid plan. Even the presenter admitted it wasn’t as good as the others – just cheaper.

  • elmdog

    Ciminelli hits all points with their ideas…I would love it if there was a children s park and tennis courts as well..Sinatra second because of the Dash’s and Uniland third..This project and Gates Circles along with the evolving elmwood village, west side etc is really making this area one to believe in and want to live in…

  • terrier1

    300miles deleted_99158746_ArchiCAD  I saw their 3-D mock up after the main meeting. I was with other neighborhood residents. We could all envision ourselves walking through the big “carve out” well lit up – which will lead into the main green space.
    Uniland got the most applause and the largest crowd around their exhibit…I guess you had to be there.
    That being said, Sinatra’s plan for Utica was fantastic – the best by far!

  • terrier1

    Trebor Neroht  Sinatra actually stated in his intro that his plan was very fluid and NOT complete. That was one of his selling points.

  • flexme

    Pig_Lightning nesciand Wrong. If he was a bad businessman he would have stuck with the Kenmore Ave store until it drove the whole chain under. Which is what happened to LL Berger and AM&A’s because they refused to close their downtown locations.

  • terrier1

    nantz13  It’s a high end neighborhood. Condos on Oakland are 400K and up…condos on Delaware/Bryant are the same. We already have a market rate apartment building at two corners – with 80+ units.

  • BuffaLife

    Rodney Copperbottom Yeah, maybe not a close second, but definitely more interesting than the boxes Uniland and Ellicott are proposing. Guess I like the green space that Ciminelli is proposing.

  • North Park

    terrier1 North Park  That’ll be a tough twenty minutes in the morning and another twenty in the afternoon. Parents want options for their kids. These schools are expanding because the demand is there.

  • mojemd01

    North Park terrier1  There was an article on here recently that the charter school is looking to expand/ make a second location

  • North Park

    mojemd01 North Park terrier1  Yes, Elmwood Village Charter and Tapestry Charter are both looking to open a second building.

  • mojemd01

    Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom  Right down the road there’s one of the worlds famous parks, pretty sure they play soccer there

  • C_Angelo

    I like Sinatra and Ellicott. I think Sinatra put forward ALOT of character. I would have liked the townhomes to be more period to blend in with the neighborhood (perhaps something more like the midway on Delaware but that’s a technicality. Im not fond of Dash’s either because it doesn’t fit. It fits Maple. It fits Niagara Falls Blvd.

    I like what Ellicott proposes for Elmwood. The building would blend beautifully with Elmwood but everything else is completely un-inspiring rehash/reuse.

    I like the Highrise of the other developers but I like them for Main Street. The highrises are blockish. Elmwood has a character to it that brands the neighborhood. I love the idea of a highrise but it needs something distinctive and their proposals didn’t capture what was needed.

    Whatever is decided will have great impact on Elmwood but all the way to Delaware, Main to the east and Niagara to the west. 2nd or 3rd rate is not acceptable.

  • greenca

    C_Angelo

    It’s dangerous to say that the townhomes, or any other building built, needs to be “more period to blend in with the neighborhood.”   It’s 2016, and architecture should reflect what’s being built in 2016, as long as it’s quality architecture..  Having a faux “ye ole timey” looking building would look like it’s trying too hard.  

    We’re not rebuilding the Darwin Martin complex, where you want it to look like it did over a century ago.  That’s why the rebuilt pergola and carriage house was an authentic rebuild, but the Greatbatch Pavilion purposely looks contemporary, albeit with a distinct homage to FL Wright.

  • greenca

    mojemd01 Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom

    I’m not sure Delaware Park is world famous, even though it’s part of  FL Olmsted’s parkway system.  Very few people (except for FLO aficionados) know about Delaware Park.  Central Park or Hyde Park, on the other hand, are world famous.

  • smills

    How is the dashs proposal something that would be on Maple/NF Blvd? Are there are a lot of appropriately scaled, pedestrian friendly mixed use grocers on those streets?

  • ExWNYer

    All very strong proposals. I think Sinatra’s proposal is the one that sticks out in my opinion. Great design elements and blends well with the neighborhood- particularly the town homes. I like the idea of a market as well. This will be a tough decision.

  • jonny99

    Yeah, last I saw suburban Dash’s were not built to curb, with sidewalk cafe and loft apts above. This is a true urban grocery store.

  • Wise Profit

    mojemd01 Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom  And for the 6 months of the year that soccer cannot be played outdoors? They end up having to go to the suburban indoor athletic centers.

  • mojemd01

    elmdog  Delaware park is just down the road. Plenty of tennis courts there

  • mojemd01

    greenca mojemd01 Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom  http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/aug/07/10-best-parks-urban-green-spaces-high-line-new-york-hampstead-london-park-guell-Barcelona.

    Delaware park was named one of the 10 best urban greenspaces in the world last year…..

  • Wise Profit

    Caug124  I guess I don’t understand what you’re looking for with “a little more dynamic and a signature of “new urban living” in Buffalo.”. What does that mean? Your comment reminds me of dates I’ve been on –

    Me – “Where do you want to go to dinner?”
    Her – “Somewhere good, I’ll go wherever.”
    Me – “How about Dinosaur BBQ?”
    Her – “No not that, like something else.”
    Me – “How about Bambino?”
    Her – “No not Italian.”
    Me – “Cantina Loco?”
    Her – “Nah not feeling that tonight”

    In summary give examples of what you mean, because as illustrated at the presentations last night, this project is taking public input very seriously as it relates to design. I thought Sinatra’s was a good mixture of options for city living – apartments, for sale townhomes, for sale condos, townhomes for rent, apartments above first floor retail etc.

  • elmdog

    mojemd01 elmdog Kid friendly park is more of a necessity than tennis courts but trrue

  • nantz13

    I didnt choose that – the comment block puts all my letters in caps even when my keyboard is not and thats how it posted – complain to the site not me

  • nantz13

    TApestry doesn’t even use buses

  • Wise Profit

    smills  I guess he didn’t know there is a Dash’s on Hertel that, while being in an older building that might need some work, is a perfect example of a small neighborhood grocery store. Built to the curb, has everything you need, maybe not 20 options for products, but the essentials. I go there all the time and love the quick in and out service. Little pricey but worth the convenience.

  • Wise Profit

    North Park Sabres00  To build on your point, I don’t think even mansions offer the same return on investment that high density residential would. Instead of 30 new wealthy residents in the area you could have hundreds. Not to mention that wealthy people that live in mansions might not even be as big of patrons of local shops and restaurants

  • North Park

    Wise Profit North Park Sabres00  I’m not advocating it, that’s for sure. I’m on board with Sinatra.

  • nantz13

    @smills the public schools around here AREN’T offerIng any better options – -if you can afford to spend $10-12k for the next 12 years – sure your decisions are limitless – for those of us trying to give our kids a good education As miDdle class famIlies in a safe environment our charter schools arE provIding some great education opportunities – you want quality then keep the politicians from dictating – and I agree all the proposals And all the options should be quality

  • greenca

    mojemd01 greenca Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom

    But ask anyone in London, Berlin, Beijing or Tokyo if they ever heard of Delaware Park.  Very doubtful.   Unless they follow the NFL or visited Niagara Falls, you’d be lucky if they’ve heard of Buffalo itself.

  • nesciand

    This might be a silly question, and maybe I am missing a detail, but how would the indoor soccer field work?  It seems like it would have a very low ceiling which isn’t very conducive to soccer playing.

  • tompkr1967

    Sinatra’s

  • terrier1

    nantz13  So the kids are driven to school – one by one???

  • Wise Profit Caug124 Get what you are saying…  I guess what I’m trying to say is most of the project lack a point of view or niche.  They are very general.  Apartment building, parking, park, mixed use, townhome or two.  There are attempts like incorporating Albright Knox, Soccer Field, etc. 

    Sinatra’s gets the closest.  Maybe I was just hoping that they would all be of that quality.

    I know there are a lot of strong opinions especially when it comes to the Elmwood Village, but that shouldn’t stop developers from having any vision or creativity.

  • ohmygodrob

    The Slides from the presentations on Thursday are available on the Kaleida website.  More info / pictures. 

    http://www.kaleidahealth.org/childrens/reuse/

  • Xeno1x

    All of Ellicott’s boards and slides seem to be taken at night. I fear that the sun will never again shine on The Village if they get the job.

  • micahh64

    Sinatra FTW — although I wish there was a way to incorporate Ciminelli’s indoor/outdoor soccer feld

    .

  • Carrotflower

    greenca C_Angelo

    It’s 2016, and architecture should reflect what’s being built in 2016, as long as it’s quality architecture.. Having a faux “ye ole timey” looking building would look like it’s trying too hard.  

    Case in point: the “reconstructed” Coit-McCutcheon Block next to the Commercial Slip. Yuck. You’d think it was the “Old Erie Canal” section of Walt Disney World.
    I live in Allentown, one of the most architecturally distinguished neighborhoods in the city, yet more and more as I walk the streets around my house I find myself wishing there were more examples of contemporary architecture in the neighborhood to break up the monotony of Victorian after Victorian. To me, the best neighborhoods are the ones with the most diverse mix of styles and time periods.

  • paulbuffalo

    greenca C_Angelo 
    greenca, ChristieLou often uses the word ‘period’ as filler when he has nothing else to say.  He’d rebuild Buffalo to back to 1901 if he had the chance.  It’s either him spouting this nonsense or his anti-semitism.  Not much of a choice.

  • TonMan70

    terrier1 TonMan70  Well, ok, closer to 2 miles but I did say ‘or so’.

    To your bigger point….ummm…not really. The biggest reason homes on the parkways you mention are valuable is that the homes themselves are valued in that the materials and finishes are not to be replicated again and the sheer scale and architectural execution. But yes the added bonus of separated treelined greenspace out front is a bonus. (Think what restoring a green roof over Humboldt Pkwy. would do.)

    There isn’t any current ‘green space surrounding’ homes on Oakland Pl or St. Georges, unless you mean front yards — yet those homes are among the most valuable in the city — so your argument fails.
    All the hospital proposals have landscaping though yes, some have more than others. Referring back to my initial point, this part of town doesn’t really need more parks, it needs (somewhat more) dense revenue generating projects.

  • robins36

    Why do we care if Ellicott’s is cheaper anyway? Most of these are privately financed with the exception of the usual tax credits.

  • Laura Jill Dahl

    Every time I turn around it’s more more more development and housing here . How many new apts, condos,townhouses and development can buffalo take ? Yes there is some growth here but not enough to fill and sustain all this new housing and the explosion of developers. There seems to be an overbuilding of housing here. And it’s all upscale . what do progressive urban planners think of all this . Shouldn’t we be thinking about developing and revitalizing Affordable housing in our impovershed neighborhoods.! All this trickle down BS theory . just more divisions between rich poor gentrification leading to urban blight and unhealthy communities ,

  • bufforward

    I like the Sinatra proposal too- dense and varied. I don’t get the inclusion of the courtyards, sports fields, etc. in the other plans. The city has plenty of wonderful park spaces- rather than private green spaces that most residents will never use, fill up the site and encourage residents to venture out to existing parks and amenities and it will spread more life and vibrancy into the surrounding neighborhood.

  • gaf1

    It should be noted that sinatra said the designs shown were placeholders and not Actual renderings . Their goal was to Work with the stakeholders to complete The design. Any oTher attendees recall that? Just trying to caution those selecting their bid based on the design

  • micahh64

    gaf1 
    “It should be noted that sinatra said the designs shown were placeholders and not Actual renderings”
    Meaning if he were selected, we’d wind up getting something closer to Ellicott?
    .

  • runner68

    Please, just stop. Enough with this Facebook stuff.

  • EricOak

    Carrotflower greenca C_Angelo
    I don’t know. People don’t seem to get bored walking through acre after acre of London residential streets at their best..or Paris ones, or Krakow…..with rows and rows of even more identical homes, or homes within period styles clustered block after block after block.There’s a moving harmony and inner logic there that has more lasting value than saying, “hey, let’s plunge a contemporary home or building here, just so it’s different.” That’s one short buzz. 

    But most American cities feel this urge to anxiously juxtapose, to be as present-day in architecture as the next city, do something just to be different….why? when you’ve got so much layering that here that works already, that builds a slow and satisfying aesthetic harmony? 
    It take real restraint and taste and vision to mix older and present-day architecture that well, and it’s rarely done well. Most European cities are more careful about this. They get it. And on the other side…Toronto.

  • EricOak

    North Park terrier1
    The neighborhood has 4 schools within two blocks of this site. It’s not being anti-school to question the wisdom of another school in the middle of this. There are problems with the schools in the neighborhood already.

  • EricOak

    nantz13
    There’s actually a chronic shortage of condos in the neighborhood, and from a tax basis we need more density. We need more stores on Elmwood, not fewer. The neighborhood seriously needs a grocery store, real clothing stores, decent non-trinket gift shops, specialty shops. Real cafes. Character. It’s a city, not a suburb. A school here –that would be five schools in a two block radius– is fine with me, but it should not be the focus of the new development, which will be more productive economically and socially if it beings many new, hopeful, money-spending, house proud citizens living there.

  • EricOak

    greenca mojemd01 Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom
    What you don’t know about people in London is a lot : )

  • EricOak

    Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom
    So we should base a huge part of this development, arguably the most important residential adaptive reuse in Buffalo in the past 75 years, on the needs of some kids to play soccer during the winter? I can’t fathom that.

  • Bootey

    Tappestry dOes use buSes- City Of Buffalo School buses- and ask any parent that has shopped around for ELEMENTARY schools lately – Tapestry doesn’t have the stellar reputation it once had. So, the idea of Tapestry there is not tempting to any of us that liVe a sTone’s tHrow away from it. Keep in mind that some Charter Scools exist because the pupils were “not fit” for public school.

  • Davvid

    nah

  • greenca

    EricOak greenca mojemd01 Wise Profit Rodney Copperbottom

    When I am in London or in other places overseas, and people ask where I’m from, if I say “Buffalo,” and more often than not I’m met with a blank stare.  I’ll then say “its’ near Niagara Falls, in New York State, but not near NYC.”  Then I’ll get an understanding nod.

  • nyc lines

    gaf1  no wonder the Sinatra architecture is terrible.

  • 300miles

    gaf1    That’s probably the case for all the proposals.

  • nyc lines

    300miles gaf1 

    I think you could at least see the intent for the architecture which doesn’t bode well for Sinatra unless you are a fan of hodgepodge historicism.

  • nyc lines gaf1 What criteria is your assertion based on? Scale? Detail? Context? Because the Developer (Sinatra) did not do the architecture, that would be Wendel. http://wendelcompanies.com/Services/Architecture

    http://wendelcompanies.com/Services/Planning

    Kind of a top shelf firm. “Terrible”? Really? Please explain why you feel that way.

  • nyc lines

    DanteDAnthony nyc lines gaf1 

    I don’t believe in designing buildings to look like they were built in another era. It almost never works and it’s built on the premise that architecture has not advanced and we could do no better than what was designed in 1890.  I am looking at the townhomes in particular but it is the general feel of all of it.. Could you imagine if someone designed your iPhone to look like this?

  • gaf1

    SinaTra said the designs were placeholders and that they would design based on piblic input. Thats all i am saying. Based on that i dont take much stock on the images put forth

  • armyof100clowns

    Don’t be so presumptuous.
    I’m not saying it won’t happen, but to prescribe a certain outcome so early in the process, and in a manner that smacks of the dismissive prejudice (oh, they’re a bunch of stuck up elitists) about the folks that live around here is quite small and annoying. I can’t speak for my neighbors, but I’m VERY excited about these proposals and the density they will bring. There is plenty of green here so the more density that’s brought to the site, the happier I’ll be.
    . . . and, on the traffic issue . . . have you ever had a hospital as your neighbor? I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts we have more traffic on Bryant than most of the similar sized east-west streets running between Delaware and Richmond.

  • nyc lines DanteDAnthony gaf1 Except for maybe your premise “that the buildings are designed to look like they were built in another era” is a false premise. The forms and scale and some of the details are similar to those from other eras because: 1.) Those forms and scales are typical and to a degree on a sliding scale somewhat inevitable with Euclidean geometries most useful in construction of the building types, and 2.) The forms, scale, and details are a function of harmonizing with the existing context, and also serve numerous cultural signals regarding space, use, and meaning to the average person who inhabits the city vs. someone who spends decades reading volumes on Architecture…volumes where architects and urban planners themselves shift continually century after century on what is appropriate form. 

    You can’t lobotomize design options in cities by asserting forms “from another era”. Your example of the landline vs a cell phone is a poor example. I mean, Star Trek Communicators from the 60’s would be a more accurate design problem comparison to an iphone, and it stands up pretty good regarding form.

    http://www.amazon.com/Architecture-Francis-D-K-Ching/dp/0471752169

    A reductionist discipline based on a false premise is no way to determine creative, workable solutions in an existing context that cities present. 

    It’s like showing up at the ball, in a grand old hall, and pretending no one else is there-worse, pretending everyone else that has ever done anything interesting or worthwhile. 

    Architectural geometries appear again and again across cultures and eras-and with the discovery of the New World and the much of the Archaeology of the past century it has long been apparent forms are recreated time and again in cultures that weren’t even aware of one another. So….how does you “belief” and false assertion hold any water as a criteria of Design? I don’t “believe” it does-I think it is merely YOUR preference, and neither represents a real basis to critique Wendel or Sinatra. 

    http://hdc.org/designawards

    http://www.cookfox.com/project.php?id=Historic-Front-Street

  • Tunkey
  • Tunkey

    nesciand We designed a green link from Bryant through Hodge through to Utica.  This connects a small park, a playground, and the soccer field.  This creates a new urban green link that will definitely effect the walkability of that neighborhood.  We also did a lot around stepping back the buildings from the street – take a look at our plan to step the Variety Tower back 25 feet. Also, we worked with Resource Art to create a series of public spaces and great sidewalks connected with a thread of FUNDED public art.  All that said, the most important thing we did relative to walkability was to create 374 underground parking spaces. No other scheme provided underground parking.  The result is; 1) surface parking, 2) coopting the public garage for private fuctions, and 3) more street parking.  I’m not sure if we were successful, but those were some of our ideas around walkability. Thanks.

  • Tunkey

    gaf1 Sorry, I’m was the leader of the Cannon Design proposal.  I’m just trying to go through these comments and add notes where there are questions of fact about our scheme.  Yes, we did a survey of the Hodge buildings many years back.  We also worked with Barbara Campagna to do historical analysis of all structures (Barbara is one of our region’s most respected preservationists).  Yes, we determined that there is minimum historical value to these structures, and that they would be incredibly difficult to reuse.  We took the parking requirements seriously, and felt that it was very important for our parking to; 1) be invisible (not surface or structured), and 2) be sufficient for the new private uses we are adding to the site.  Based on our use calculations, we needed at least 300 new spaces on the site to cover residential, hotel and amenity uses.  Thanks and feel free to let me know if you have any more questions or clarifications.

  • Carrotflower

    Wise Profit smills Tops on Seneca Street is maybe even a better example..

  • Penny Karrer

    great for the hospital but when are the doctors going to move downtown for others that live her.

  • Penny Karrer

    if it is a medical community then bring doctors to the medical community to support those that do not live in the suburbs.

  • Penny Karrer

    make it use friendly to those that live within the community,that need the excess to doctors than having to drive a hour to get to see a doctor.

  • Penny Karrer

    remenber doctors are needed more in the inner ity than they think.

  • nyc lines

    gaf1 

    They are placeholders but I do think it shows general intent unless there was some sort of public backlash to emerge.  For the most part the gates circle redevelopment is pretty well in keeping with what was originally designed.

  • OldFirstWard

    nyc lines
    Everyone borrows from the past. Especially architects. 
    What do you think Richardson did to Romanesque?  The Syrian Arch? Successful architects learn to adapt the styles and develop new vernaculars.  
    Great styles have been around for centuries, you just pretend they don’t exist. BTW, that is why they survive in the form of revivals. Junk will die fast, like Brutalism.  Learn from the great ones, or be shelved with the millions of failures.

  • nyc lines

    OldFirstWard nyc lines 

    exactly, you build on the past to move forward.  YOU DON’T REPEAT IT.

  • OldFirstWard

    greenca
    ” It’s 2016, and architecture should reflect what’s being built in 2016, as long as it’s quality architecture.”
    Says who? There is plenty of 2016 crap floating around town to tickle your fancy. Populous, Kohn Pedersen Fox, Cannon, Kideney, Frizlen, etc…have all contributed to the proliferation of toxic waste in our skylines.

  • gaf1

    That is the exact context of the discussion i gad with one of your rep. Thanks for expounding. There are many posters who care About the city’s stock of old/historical buildings and i wanted to point out that the Ciminelli/Cannon tesm had given that thought and weighed the merits of what to do on the Hodge st site.

  • Cirris

    “Affordable housing” is just code for government subsidized projects.

    Buffalo doesn’t need more “affordable housing” Buffalo does need more people who can “afford” their own housing. You want and need those professionals that are working in the offices and medical centers to actually live in the city. Not commuting from Amherst, East Aurora, etc.and taking their paychecks with them.

    You need a growing tax base that is contributing to the city. Not leeching off of it.

  • Wise Profit

    DanteDAnthony  Three weeks ago you were in a rage because I said we should knock down a building to make way for a big new development. And I quote:

    “preserving the historic infrastructure of the city benefits everyone over time. It also can benefit the developer if the are thoughtful and creative”

    “Like I said, your argument fails to address that Developers use million in Historic Tax credits ALL THE ****ING TIME, so you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to stand on decrying the concerns of historic Preservation. Nothing. Nada. ****ing zip. So stop.”

    Three weeks later you blindly cast your vote for the only proposal that completely demolishes all but the best buildings in the hospital complex (which buildings every developer kept in the proposal).

    Please be consistent when spewing that stinky, brown matter from your mouth.

  • Wise Profit DanteDAnthony Such drama. I was never in a rage-good heavens, you should maybe watch the British Parliament debate sometime? Skewering, raucous, ribald debate has been a healthy tradition of free peoples since Parliaments and such have come into existence. I don’t know you personally, you may be a great guy and someone I would enjoy knowing. It’s just a debate. If i have offended you, I apologize.

    As for, “blindly cast your vote for the only proposal that completely demolishes all but the best buildings in the hospital complex” I stand corrected-yes, I cast my vote for Sinatra (not that I have an actual say in this process) based only on the Design and in fact did not consider what was being demolished.

    I may reconsider my OPINION on a matter I have no real input on outside a internet thread, with the new information you pointed out.

    I was actually pleased with the level of thought and care all the submissions showed. Sinatra was my personal favorite, but in my OPINION (and that carries no weight with either the developers, the architects, the financiers, or the public officials involved) I thought Sinatra’s was the best.

    I have not, however, been able to spend a great deal of time on it. I live on the lower West Side, close to Niagara street, and I am knee deep in my film slate (just got our high end render farm up), a proposed film fund in California, and a High Tech computer deal for emerging technologies in immersive VR, and drafting for my Fiance who has an Interior Design Firm with projects in NYC and Connecticut.

    Moving forward, I will try not to be so abrasive. At the end of the day, I’m just an old South Buffalo boy-perhaps too quick at times to be combative.

  • Wise Profit

    DanteDAnthony Wise Profit  Just busting your chops man. I like the Sinatra proposal as well. This site deserves something great, that is certainly something we can agree on.