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Tim Hortons Anchoring Proposed Niagara Street Building

A new retail building at Niagara and Albany streets anchored by a Tim Hortons will be reviewed by the Buffalo Planning Board on November 5.  Ellicott Development is proposing a 4,600 sq.ft. retail building for a vacant 1.59 acre parcel at 1088 Niagara Street.  It will house a 2,000 sq.ft. Tim Hortons with room for a second restaurant or retail tenant.  Ellicott Development CEO Bill Paladino says the plan for the development is still being refined.

According to the information provided to the Planning Board, the “exterior will feature hardi-plank siding, storefront windows, and gooseneck lighting.  Each tenant will have a separate entrance, highlighted by a parapet to break up the mass of the building.”

hortonselevation

hortonssite

Proposed two-tenant retail building and site plan with drive through and proposed future parking lot expansion to accommodate future reuse of a vacant adjacent building at 1050 Niagara Street.

Tim Hortons, which opened at Canalside this morning, launched its first restaurant in Hamilton, Ontario in 1964.  As of June, Tim Hortons had 4,546 systemwide restaurants, including 3,630 in Canada, 866 in the United States.  The company is in the process of being sold to Burger King.

Ellicott Development anticipates starting the project in March and have it complete by next July if City approvals are obtained.

The retail project will occupy one of three large properties Ellicott Development owns along the revitalizing Niagara Street corridor.  Ellicott purchased buildings at 960 Busti Avenue and 1050 Niagara Street from Ciminelli Development in April 2008.  The company has plans to convert 960 Busti into a mix of residential and commercial space.  Plans for the two-story, 52,000 sq.ft. 1050 Niagara Street have not been announced.niagara

Niagara Street has seen a spurt of new investment as of late including a significant investment by Rich Products into its Atrium complex, Resurgence Brewing opening at 1250 Niagara, the planned renovation of 1225 Niagara into a restaurant and apartments, and Sugar City and 12 Grain Studio locating on the 1200 block.

The street, which is scheduled to get a makeover, has gobs of potential.  Industrial buildings are ripe for reuse but many are occupied by a mix of manufacturing and distribution companies.  Others, such as Ciminelli-owned 990 Niagara Street and the former Agway Warehouse at 1100 Niagara Street owned by Giles Kavanagh, await repurposing.  There’s even talk that a developer is eyeing the seven-story Bison Storage & Warehouse Corp. at 1502 Niagara for a conversion project.

Written by WCPerspective

WCPerspective

Buffalo and development junkie currently exiled in California.

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  • BuffaloBoi

    Will be a ‘storefront’ or a ‘drive-through’ restaurant? Since, it’s Ellicott Development, I’m assuming a suburban style drive-through.

  • ImissBuffalo

    Was wondering this myself

  • Opuntia humifusa

    I’m very interested to see what this proposed building looks like. Upon seeing this story, this was the first thing I thought of: http://goo.gl/maps/mM1IN

  • arcmorris

    The City Planning Board should insist that the project adopt the Green Code standards for overall form and lot placement.  There is no reason for the City to re-do Niagara Street as a “complete” street and transit corridor and then make a mockery of this investment by adopting a business-as-usual mentality towards projects like this.

  • Gobills716

    There is a new retail building being built on a long neglected stretch of niagara street and your concern is if there will be a “suburban” drive thru? Does it really matter if there is a drive thru? Pretty much every Tim’s has a drive thru so you better prepare yourself because suburbia is coming to the 1000 block of niagara street. What’s next, cul de sacs?

  • Buffaboy

    Gobills716 it’s just not appropriate to have suburban style buildings in a city that is trying to make a more urban, pedestrian experience for everyone. All you ever see in Buffalo is cars, when the Niagara St. Complete Street is done then it would be that much out of place.

  • BuffaloBoi

    Gobills716 Yes it does matter. I’d rather live in the ‘City’ of Buffalo not the suburban wanna be in the middle of the old city of Buffalo. I’ve wanted a true suburban lifestyle, I can move to Tonawanda, Amherst, Cheektowaga , etc.

  • No_Illusions

    BuffaloBoi If one right, there could be the best of both worlds. Just put the Drive-thru in the back with the parking.

  • greenca

    Buffaboy Gobills716
    This section of Niagara Street was always an industrial zone, it was never a pedestrian-oriented retail or residential zone.

  • ironliege

    Not sure what the opposition to a drive-through component is all about. I live in the City (Allentown), use my bike/walk whenever possible. But I’m in sales and  on the road throughout the whole Metro area frequently. Sometimes I have only a few minutes to grab a cup of tea and a bagel and appreciate being able to drive up to the window and get my goodies. Especially when it’s raining, snowing or bitterly cold. At those times the drive-thru is a good option. (BTW Bank drive-thru ATMS and tellers are quite beneficial in similar situations.)  I also walk into Tim Horton’s to meet friends and clients on many other occasions. Perhaps providing options but insisting on good ‘green’ design is better than eliminating a choice that helps a lot of people during their workday.

  • greenca

    ironliege
    Oh no, you admitted that you drive a car and utilize drive-throughs.  You may be run out of Allentown with cyclists carrying pitchforks chasing you.

  • biniszkiewicz

    This store is being built specifically to capitalize on the vehicular traffic of Niagara Street. Just like most of them. This is not being constructed to take advantage the walk in neighborhood trade. Cars. That’s to whom this will cater, because that’s the business model that works for them. Tim Hortons have the longest drive through lanes in the industry. Traffic volume is precisely how most Tim Ho locations are determined, and it seems to be a winning model.
    I can think of two full fledged Tim Hortons with no drive through: Liberty Building and the new flagship. I haven’t seen the plans, nor am I involved in the deal, but there is no way on earth they’d build it here without the drive thru. And more power to them.

  • biniszkiewicz

    Opuntia humifusa
    Actually, BRO readers should like that Bailey/Seneca location very much: it’s built way back, behind whatever comes along to obstruct it at street front in the future. It puts the evil automobile way in the background instead of featuring a big parking lot on a main street.

  • ironliege

    greenca ironliege they already tried but my pitchforks are turbo charged so I won lol.

  • arcmorris

    biniszkiewicz I agree that the car traffic drives these locations.  My only point was to say that this particular building should also be respectful of the urban form.  It can have a drive-through window on the rear or side, but it should also have its principal façade in-line-with the prevailing setback of the surrounding buildings with drive-through and parking relegated to the side and rear.

  • biniszkiewicz

    arcmorris biniszkiewicz
    I’ve no problem with that. I agree.

  • Gobills716

    @buffaloboy Do you know where this is location is? Do you really think a tim hortons without a drive thru will work at that location or are you just using this as an excuse to complain about cars?

  • Gobills716

    @BuffaloBoi do you really think a tim hortons without a drive thru will be successful at this location? There’s nothing “suburban” about a drive thru. It’s how businesses like tim hortons make their money. Relax man

  • SoBuff

    biniszkiewicz The one on Seneca next to the Mini-Tops doesn’t have a drive through.

  • Buffaboy

    Gobills716 Of course I do. If you go by that area you see buildings built to the curb, not set back 100′ with parking lots.

  • grovercleveland

    You guys realize people drive cars, right? Its not like the car is drinking the coffee. Actual people are. Most people drive cars, to make things as inconvenient as possible for them is downright idiotic.

  • Michael DiPasquale

    Gobills716
    Cities don’t thrive when they prioritize cars.
    Park your car and walk into the restaurant. Nothing’s worse than a line of air-polluting cars backed up at a Drive-Thru.

  • Dan Morrow

    The drive through lane is almost always included.  Thankfully, they didn’t try to add one to the HarborCenter location opening today.   I worked on the engineering design of many Tim Hortons locations back in the early 1990s.  With the exception of two inside kiosks, all were freestanding buildings with drive through lanes.  
    The following is admittedly off topic, but we could be seeing more Tim Hortons around here. While working on those Tim Hortons projects, I was surprised to learn that a Tim Hortons location needed a local population of only 5,000 people to be profitable. There were some cities where they actually had a lower population per store – Moncton, NB had a population of 60,000 and 16 Tim Hortons, or less than 3,800 people per store.  At the April 2014 press conference announcing the HarborCenter location, the president of Tim Hortons said that even after adding 61 new locations in the last three years, he expected more expansion in Buffalo.

  • BuffaloBoi

    ironliege I hope your not one of the idiot drivers who speeds onto the sidewalks without a care in the world that ‘oh, people might be walking on that sidewalk’ and almost hitting someone as most drivers who use that location most often do. I know pedestrians have to look out for cars too, but some drivers don’t give anyone enough time, they grab their coffee and speed it.

  • biniszkiewicz

    Michael DiPasquale Gobills716
    “Cities don’t thrive when they prioritize cars over pedestrians and nice streetscapes.”:

    Do please enumerate all the cities Buffalo’s size or larger which prohibit drive thru lanes, so that we may thus ascertain all those which qualify (by your definition) as ‘not thriving’. I eagerly await your list.

  • GotAnyChange

    It appears to me that ellicott has given up on 960 busti, which is too bad. Maybe they just put it on hold?
    Anything to make Niagara at seem less dated is a good thing. Maybe they’ll end up putting the place to the curb with a meandering drive thru around back?

  • A million Tim Hortons stores later, the city looks into opening a different donut shop…

  • ironliege

    BuffaloBoi ironliege Wow – you don’t even know me yet assume I’m the enemy. Remember what happens when people ‘ass u me’…

  • LancasterPat

    At least it’s built to the street. They built the Tim Horton’s on Seneca near Baily completly wrong. They’re built wrong regularly in the surburban villages.

  • BobSacamano458

    LancasterPat It’s not built to the street – look at the plans.  There are parking spots in front

  • biniszkiewicz Michael DiPasquale Gobills716
    for what its worth, cities began restricting drive-throughs almost 20 years ago and the sky has not fallen.
    http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-12/news/mn-63883_1_restaurant-industry

  • ImissBuffalo

    What a garbage development

  • Stateofmind

    Same piece of junk that is at Delaware/Chippewa. 
    Palladino does not seem to understand the concept of synergistic development; it’s like putting a parole office, methadone clinic adjacent to high end rentals. Where/is there a vision??

  • North Park

    Green code can’t come soon enough.

  • townline

    Good God, just send Green Code to council for approval today!!!!  THIS is exactly what we need to STOP doing!!!!

  • townline

    biniszkiewicz Key towers Tim Hortons no drive thru.  There are others.  And I don’t think we have to accept their business model.  They need to conform to whats appropriate for this city.  Unfortunately, our current zoning law does not reflect whats appropriate for this city.  GreenCode NOW.

  • Michael DiPasquale

    Nightmare on Niagara Street. Happy Halloween.

  • townline

    SoBuff biniszkiewicz And there is ALWAYS a line inside that one.

  • Just say no. Please get the green code passed so we are not subjected to this crap development.

  • costrander08

    Gross

  • biniszkiewicz

    townline biniszkiewicz
    A drive through IS an appropriate model for this city street. It WILL benefit primarily city residents who use it. There’s a Tim Ho at Delaware @ Linden. Do you object to that drive through, too? I have no objection whatsoever.

  • jim1234664

    this sucks, bring the building up to the sidewalk and put those few spaces in the back

  • ImissBuffalo

    Is this so hard to understand to have parking and drive thru in the back??

  • RMGreenfield

    This is terrible, old-school, CAR-FIRST planning and has no place in the city of Buffalo.

  • grovercleveland

    Except cars are driven by people and a wide wide wide super majority of people drive cars, therefore it is people first.

  • Michael DiPasquale

    Virtually everyone is a pedestrian….but not everyone drives or owns a car!

  • tomcs

    This can’t be for real.

  • laldm109

    And THIS is why we need the Green Code. Holy crap this is bad. It’s pretty hard to design a worse planned building than this.

  • ebs1962

    Many people
    simply don’t understand the point about where the parking should go. 
    The issue is really not hard to grasp but people just don’t always take
    notice of what makes an area attractive.  Think about places you love to
    go because they are attractive and make you feel good.  It is not Niagara
    Falls Blvd. and Sheridan or Main & Transit. Places where
    people want to be and want to spend time are places like Elmwood Village, The
    Village of East Aurora or Niagara-On-The Lake.  The reason is simple
    -sound urban design.  This occurred naturally before
    automobiles.  Buildings needed to be close together so people did not need
    to walk so far to get where they needed to go.  When we started
    building our towns and cities to accommodate cars, we spread everything out,
    putting parking lots in front of everything just pushed things further apart,
    required you to travel farther to get to anything and made it hostile to
    walk.  Just try walking across NFB at Sheridan.  You are taking
    your life in your hands.  The view is of nothing but acres of pavement and
    cars in front of big box stores and Malls.  Not attractive.  You
    don’t go there unless you need something they have.
    Put the parking in
    back, make the building front on the street and don’t leave big gaps between
    buildings.  It makes neighborhoods walkable, livable and enjoyable. 
    People will come just as we have seen happen on Elmwood and Hertel.  It’s starting
    to happen downtown.

  • BuffaloBoi

    Oh, but of course it has to look like it belongs in Amherst. When the hell does that Green Code go into effect?????

  • sabrefan

    A fast food joint/coffee shop/whatever smallish building with a drive-thru on the main street side isn’t exactly some city-killer. But it does seem like lazy planning/execution if nothing else.

  • BuffaloBoi

    ImissBuffalo I vote for your design instead

  • Buffaboy

    The front elevation looks like something that’s supposed to be built to the curb. But they had to add the rows of parking in the front for no reason. Disgusting.

  • Buffaboy

    ImissBuffalo Thank you!!! I’m a suburbanite myself and I can figure that out. Hell, the Village of Hamburg even got it right.

  • buffalo cyclist

    Michael DiPasquale Approximately, 31% of households in Buffalo do not own a car.  That number would be even higher if there was better mass transit and more bike lanes.

  • OldFirstWard

    “The company is in the process of being sold to Burger King.”
    Well that is a real downer for Tim Hortons.  Burger King has great fries and good burgers but it also has the dirtiest, outdated restaurants in the industry and the chain has not seen any decent investment or freshening of the decor of any kind in years.  The workers are often wearing dirty uniforms.  Hopefully they won’t run them into the ground either.

  • Michael DiPasquale
    you are correct.  cars spend 90% of the time parked. therefore, everyone, apart from those who are bedridden, is a pedestrian 90% of the time.  drivers are pedestrians 90% of the time.  
    people who get around with wheelchairs count in the pedestrian category. i was once told by a buffalo police officer that i, as a cyclist, am considered a pedestrian because i am not operating an automobile.  kind of stretches the word into meaninglessness if you ask me.  but the point is that some of us are drivers some of the time.  all of us are pedestrians, almost all of the time, barring those who drive as their occupation.

  • OldFirstWard

    How ironic all these comments are.  Funny how the design is so “horrible”  because it does not comply with an urban code desired by some.  
    But squeezing a modern brutalist box into a 100 + year old neighborhood is wonderful because it eliminates a parking lot all while ignoring the historical character and fabric of the area.
    Where is the outcry for the established West Village historical preservation protocol.  This is hypocrisy at its best. Boo hoo!

  • SoBuff

    OldFirstWard have you ever been to a Wendys? BK is a step up, odd to say.

  • flexme

    ebs1962 If people don’t want to go to NF Boulevard and Sheridan Drive why does their intersection have the highest traffic count in the State outside of the NYC metro?

  • Buffaboy

    OldFirstWard …

  • OldFirstWard

    Buffaboy
    Where is that located?

  • OldFirstWard

    grad94
    ” cars spend 90% of the time parked. therefore, everyone, apart from those who are bedridden, is a pedestrian 90% of the time.  drivers are pedestrians 90% of the time.”
    I’ll keep that in mind in bumper to bumper traffic on the 90 east at 6:30 am or the 290 at 4:00 pm.  Or on Transit Rd, Sheridan Dr, or Main St. in Williamsville at any hour.  Maybe on the 190 or NF Blvd. or Niagara St., etc…

  • Buffaboy

    I don’t know, but go to one of the dumpiest cities in NY, Utica, and on W. Oriskany Blvd they have one that looks like this.

  • GotAnyChange

    They’re two totally different issues, and the other building is not brutalist at all. Nothing brutalist about it. The windows are huge.

  • GotAnyChange

    And east aurora, and williamsville…

  • biniszkiewicz

    ImissBuffalo
    your design has a few problems:
    1) far fewer parking spots
    2) shorter drive through lane
    3) this ‘other store’: this ‘other retailer’ is not something the TimHo wants on their site and that new retailer would require its own parking, further cutting into TimHo’s viability.
    That last reality is the most lethal to this sketch.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    ironliege BuffaloBoi He didn’t assume you were; he figured you might be, given his general observations, which are consistent with mine.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    biniszkiewicz ImissBuffalo 
    Easy there, bini.  I don’t think his sketch was a final draft, do you?
    None of your points are valid, anyway.  You can start the drive-thru lane anywhere on-site.  See the combination Tim Ho’s/Wendy’s on Grand Island for an example of an especially circuitous drive-thru layout.  In this case, put the order screen right near the Albany St. driveway, if you want extra room.  The parking that is subtracted from the front is theoretically added to the back–no net change from Paladino’s plan.  The parcel of land didn’t suddenly shrink by moving the building forward some feet, did it?  And the other store is there regardless. 
    Almost thought you were commenting ironically here.  If you were, my apologies for taking your post seriously

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    OldFirstWard grad94 as you should, because the existence of those high-volume traffic areas (high-volume relative to Erie County, anyway) is unrelated to his point

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    flexme ebs1962 Consumer’s, obviously
    Just because people DO go there doesn’t mean they want to, or enjoy doing so, or go out of their way to do so (this last is most pertinent).  Amherst has, what, 115k people (guessing) and Tonawanda maybe 60k?  Tough for many of them to spend too much time to avoid that intersection.  But that’s a lively commercial area that draws shoppers in from all over the region (and Ontario).  I contribute to that traffic count rather frequently because of Barnes & Noble’s relative proximity to that intersection. 
    But nobody’s getting out of their cars to take a picture or savor the fulfillment of the lifelong dream of having finally arrived at the highest trafficked intersection in Upstate NY.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    sabrefan sums it up very well IMO

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    SoBuff OldFirstWard debatable
    Doesn’t Tim Horton’s currently have some sort of affiliation with Wendy’s, speaking of?  Aside from the dual location in GI, I’ve noticed other dual locations in Ft Erie and the Columbus area, maybe the Erie area.  We could be looking at a McDonald’s-killing conglomerate here, heh.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    Buffaboy Looks almost like it would be at a Thruway service station, given that it’s seemingly windowless

  • ImissBuffalo

    Wow are you retarded? I’m in disbelief the stupidity of people on here.
    No wonder the city went nowhere for years holy shit.
    This is a fucking concept sketch and not drawn to scale. The back lot where the parking is would obviously be a lot bigger and deeper. I can’t even believe I’m explaining this. As far as the other store it was included BECAUSE ITS ON THE OTHER RENDERING.

  • OldFirstWard

    Matt Marcinkiewicz
    That’s what I was thinking.

  • OldFirstWard

    GotAnyChange
    Many modern buildings are just refined brutalism of the 21st century.  Flat unembellished walls and odd sized windows are not game changers.  
    Let’s call it Brutalist Revival.  You heard it here first.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    ImissBuffalo Heh.  He’s actually one of the better/best posters on here, typically.  Not his best moment, this

  • ImissBuffalo

    Lol. Sorry to get so offensive but I was just dumbfounded

  • OldFirstWard

    GotAnyChange
    “You’re trying to see character flaws in people where there are none, all because someone doesn’t agree with you.”

    Not quite.  Infallibility is not a flag waver here.  It is essentially the same argument in different context. Take a closer look, it is very obvious.

  • ironliege

    Buffaboy Agreed – had high hopes that elevation was curbside. Such a disappointment!

  • sabrefan

    OldFirstWard GotAnyChange A Tim Horton’s with a drive-thru isn’t a game changer, either.

  • Buffaboy

    Well here is one in Burlington, NC:

  • biniszkiewicz

    Matt Marcinkiewicz biniszkiewicz ImissBuffalo
    re: the other retail: silly of me not to have paid attention to the other store in the sketch. Didn’t notice it; simply saw that the building in the sketch was much wider/larger than actual proposal above.
    The sketch everyone loves would stretch the new building along the entire street front, from Albany to the drive through exit. That is far out of scale, as it eliminates the parking on the sides of the building and enlarges the building (which, I Assumed, was done to hide/eliminate the parking on the sides; my bad). 
    I get annoyed when people shortchange the number of parking spaces that many establishments need. 
    It doesn’t offend me that the parking surrounds the building as proposed. Neither would it offend me to have the building front the sidewalk. But either way, there would be plenty of space on one or both sides of the new build, even if it were constructed to the sidewalk.

  • Opuntia humifusa

    Realistically, can/will the city get them to change the design? I don’t think one can really fault the developer – their goal is to make money, and deviating from the normal copy-paste build is going to cost them more.
    I’m genuinely curious, does the planning board have no power in objecting to a build like this (or the Dollar General on Grant/Forest, etc.)? The newer big box pharmacy in East Aurora is very urban, how come villages can do it, but the city can’t?

  • biniszkiewicz

    Opuntia humifusa
    re: ” their goal is to make money, and deviating from the normal copy-paste build is going to cost them more”:
    true, but misleading. That’s not the only reason they want what they want. One-off designs are an added expense, and of course the corporation wants to avoid that. 
    But commentators should appreciate that there are well considered reasons for the operators to prefer the layouts they choose. It’s not simply that one design haphazardly gets chosen and then replicated. There is always, in any major corporation, a great deal of analysis devoted to creating the optimal prototype or array of prototypes. There are reasons they like what they like, and these reasons most definitely include analyses of parking and traffic flow.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    biniszkiewicz Opuntia humifusa 
    “One-off designs are an added expense, and of course the corporation wants to avoid that.”
    True.  But that’s where some city like SF would say, “we ban any corporation insistent on importing their pet design which is in violation of our codes”.
    Just saying, it’s always a question of local will.  Buffalo is still pretty much an economically trailing if ideologically similar Pittsburgh.  The people on this site who would rightly look for something better will have to look elsewhere for a while, I’m afraid, unless some EV-style pocket can somehow come to assert influence over the whole town (which may or may not be a good thing, in reality)

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    biniszkiewicz Opuntia humifusa 
    eh, it was disingenuous for me to say “question of local will” and leave it at that.  Local will + preexisting local resources + mindset + whatever other variables I currently omit.  Anyone’s willpower, whether as an individual or a collective, can be tested and ultimately snapped by desperation.  Buffalo, despite its control boards and losses and etc etc, has never IMO gotten to the point of psychic desperation.  We’re not fucking New Orleans after Katrina.  Give it another decade and maybe, but….

  • Rand503

    Matt is correct. I hat Transit rd with a passion. Even considering the necessity of sprawl in Clarence and .amherst, they still did a lousy job.
    But i drive there all the time because i live by and it has the stores i need.

  • Rand503

    It should be closer to the hospital for the inevitable heart attacks.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    Rand503 
    I thought you lived in DC?  I’m going off the one recent thread…forget which one.  Niagara Falls-related, maybe

  • Rand503

    Indeed, all he is doing moving the building to the street, not enlarging it. So you move the street faced parking to the back. No net gain or loss. It should be pretty easy to see that.
    What is so bad abut the original design is that it is actually hostile to pedestrians. They have to cross a lot of asphalt to get to the front door, and dodge moving cars the entire way. That is enough to discourage any walkers.
    This proposal is a good compromise AND makes it safe and attractive to pedestrians. Cars still have their unlimited access. I can see no reason why anyone would oppose something that is so vastly superior for the city, the walkers, the cars and the business itself.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    sabrefan OldFirstWard GotAnyChange 
    that might be the problem

  • North Park

    biniszkiewicz Matt Marcinkiewicz ImissBuffalo I think that is a weird thing to be annoyed about.  I live in the city and work in the suburbs, as a result I end up at a lot of suburban fast food or fast-casual dining establishments.  Inevitably I drive there.  I’ve never encountered a full parking lot at any of them, ever.

    You almost never see any parking lots even half full.  The Grand Island Wendy’s/Tim Horton’s mentioned above is a place I’ve eaten many times, never has the lot been full.  In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it half full.

    Most chains build 2-3x more parking spaces than they will need.  The lots are built for peak days, which might happen 3-5x per year.  So we end up with massive parking lots that are only filled a few times per year.  Why?  

    I would bet money they could build this, with a 3rd store front, still have a drive-through and still never fill the parking lot that would be behind the stores.

  • Rand503

    I do. On capitol hill. But we have a family house in Clarence, and i get back quite often.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    Rand503 
    So basically you’re telling me you’re Chris Collins in a more likeable form than I imagined?

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    Rand503 
    (j/k)

  • rockpile38

    What’s the store going to be Dollar General?

  • Buffaboy

    biniszkiewicz Opuntia humifusa However no two locations or areas are the same. A Tim Hortons on Transit Rd. shouldn’t be the same as a Tim Hortons in Harborcenter, Elmwood, Delavan or Niagara St. Analysis of surrounding area building styles should also be taken into consideration with parking design, road capacity and peak, high and low volumes of customers and cars traveling in and out of the location. I might be early on my path to my Civ. Eng. degree but it all goes together.

  • Buffaboy

    flexme ebs1962 That’s also the intersection Whole Foods is putting a two story store at.

  • biniszkiewicz

    North Park biniszkiewicz Matt Marcinkiewicz ImissBuffalo
    I ate the other day at Dibella’s at Transit and Werhle the other day. Bad food. But full lot.
    You might not get annoyed, but then again, you probably don’t work in commercial real estate.

  • biniszkiewicz

    Rand503
    he’s not just moving it to the street. Look at the sides of the building in the actual proposal, and look at the sketch. There is parking and circulation all around the real proposal. The sketch illustrates a building which takes up the whole lot, one side to the other, save for the drive lane.
    And it’s hardly hostile to cross in front of the first as a pedestrian. There’s sidewalk and green space buffer the whole way.

  • GotAnyChange

    OldFirstWard GotAnyChange  On occasion, yes. A street wall of glass windows is not brutalist however. You’re reaching because you don’t like the building.

  • GotAnyChange

    OldFirstWard GotAnyChange  You’re talking about context of style, the Timmy Ho’s conversation is about context of building orientation. They’re different and present no hypocrisy on anyone’s’ account for supporting one but being against the other.

    Try again.

  • whateverr

    rockpile38
    ‘going to be Dollar General?’

    I doubt it’ll be a Dollar General because the reported size of 2,600 square feet for the new retail space seems much too small for a Dollar General.  The new DG on Forest near Grant is over double that size at 6,000 feet says thishttp://www.wkbw.com/news/business/Dollar-General-eyed-for-site-near-Buffalo-State-251192281.html
    A new Dollar General somewhere on Niagara St would be a positive for many residents around there, but I think the 2,600 sq ft space in this also-positive-for-Niagara-St project is more likely to be a different type of store, or maybe eatery.

  • whateverr

    Opuntia humifusa
    In addition to the matter of one-off-customized vs. a more standard approach, there’s a very logical business reason to have customer parking not be only-in-the-back-all-visually-blocked off from passing traffic as suggested by some comments in this thread such as
    ImissBuffalo>’have parking and drive thru in the back’
    buffaloboy>’But they had to add the rows of parking in the front for no reason. Disgusting.’ 
    ebs1962>’Put the parking in back’
    The good reason for not having all parking be in the back is that would IMO significantly reduce non-drive-thru customer flow every day for Tim’s and the other tenant.
    That would be due to some people driving by not realizing fast enough that there’s parking in the back, and also due to some others thinking that isn’t a physically safe enough place to park (break-ins, muggings, or violence).
    Then also, both business tenant would need an extra customer entrance/exit facing the back – more cost not only to build but ongoing for security. 
    The proposal does have a dozen or so spaces in the back, perhaps intended for employees of the two businesses.
    If the city govt tried to require that all customer parking be in only the back for this, then I’d predict the result would be Tim’s simply canceling this location and the parcel would remain sitting vacant for a long time to come.
    For similar reasoning, I’d suppose a cancelling also would’ve happened if the city govt had tried to forbid the Flying Bison brewery project from having a parking lot directly on Seneca St.

  • biniszkiewicz

    nyc lines biniszkiewicz Rand503
    except for the absent drive through (which is key to TimHo), there’s a lot to like about this.

  • biniszkiewicz

    ImissBuffalo
    Well, try to draw things to scale instead of fudging. He drew 14 parking spaces, as opposed to the original’s 48 parking spaces. He shrunk the parking more than 2/3 and enlarged the building to cover the whole street front. That led me to think he was adding a retailer where I didn’t notice one earlier.

  • rockpile38

    whateverr    I totally agree on DG being a solid store and servicing neighborhoods with name brands with affordable prices. I also get my TH’s everyday. But I think maybe my sarcasm comes from this not really being much of a story, meaning I think the project is fine, but I think some of the other projects and buzz along Niagara St is much more newsworthy! Maybe in a few years will see some mixed use campus style buildings along with more conversions of the warehouses, a lot of available land to say the least!

  • whateverr

    rockpile38
    With it having over 100 comments before I ever first saw it and added a few… I don’t think BR will judge it as not being very newsworthy for this forum.
    We’ll see if maybe a trendy type of tenant will rent the space next door to Tim’s and motivate future BR posts too.

  • Michael DiPasquale

    Opuntia humifusa
    Lot’s of developers gladly “pay more” if they want to be in a certain location. They wouldn’t get away with this in Toronto, or even Pittsburgh. Not sure why this should be allowed here.

  • whateverr

    Michael DiPasquale
    ‘They wouldn’t get away with this in Toronto, or even Pittsburgh’

    I’d be surprised if there aren’t numerous similar examples in similar parts of both Toronto & Pittsburgh.
    The widespread vacancy along Niagara St is a hint that there isn’t very high demand from tenants or developers.

  • Sudden Debt

    rockpile38 I was thinking the same thing.  So unfortunate.

  • cianci66

    Michael DiPasquale Gobills716 “Cities don’t thrive when they prioritize cars over pedestrians and nice streetscapes.”
    Now lets check out your statement against facts.
    Atlanta Population 1950: 997,666
    Atlanta Population 2010: 5,729,304
    Population Growth: 5.7x

    Dallas Population 1950: 434,469
    Dallas Population 2010: 1,197,816
    Population Growth: 2.8x

    Los Angeles Population: 1950: 1,970,358
    Los Angeles Population: 2010: 3,792,621
    Population Growth: 2.0x

    Now lets look at cities that haven’t prioritized the car.
    San Francisco Population: 1950: 775,357
    San Francisco Population: 2010: 805,235
    Population Growth: 1.0x

    New York City: 1950: 7,891,957
    New York City: 2010: 8,175,133
    Population Growth:  1.0x

    The facts are, cities that prioritize the car grow. Cities that don’t stagnate.

  • cianci66 Michael DiPasquale Gobills716 You listed Atlanta’s metropolitan region, as opposed to the actual city:
    1950 Population: 373,628
    2010 Population: 420,003
    Population Growth: +1.2
    Also, your analysis does not directly relate to how putting cars first has benefited those cities. 
    -New York City and San Francisco have experienced GROWTH from the past 60+ years, not the least of which is due to their multimodal transportation systems, and SF’s highway removal. 
    -Even cities such as Dallas, Atlanta, and Los Angeles have more transportation options than we do, and Dallas in particular has programs that honor their pedestrian-oriented community. http://www.klydewarrenpark.org/About-the-Park/our-story.html
    -Finally, your whole point is negated by the simple fact that a city such as Buffalo has invested heavily in the automobile since the 1950s, while doing very little to expand its bus and rail program, yet lost nearly half of its peak population:
    1950 Population: 580,132
    2010 Population: 261,310
    Population Growth: -0.45
    …AND that a city such as Portland, another that has removed their highways while embracing pedestrian lifestyle, has fared far better than we have:
    1950 Population: 373,628
    2010 Population: 583,776
    Population Growth: +1.6
    Car-oriented development is antiquated thinking that has obviously not worked in our favor, and if continues, will cripple this city’s redevelopment.

  • whateverr

    Sudden Debt 
    ‘So unfortunate.’

    It’s unclear what you’re saying is unfortunate.
    It’s very unlikely to be a Dollar General because at 2,600 square feet the space is much smaller than usual size of those.  But that aside, Dollar General stores aren’t unfortunate to nearby working families and others who can’t as easily afford to always shop at higher priced stores.
    Instead of a Dollar General, maybe this retail tenant will be something like a cell phone store, or a tattoo business, or a tax prep service.  How would all of those be less unfortunate than a Dollar General?

  • cianci66

    Brad J Bethel Jr cianci66 Michael DiPasquale Gobills716 Buffalo population decline has nothing to do with a car focused development. Buffalo’s population declined because of the tanking of the economy. The car focused development is what helped stem the tide of decline.
    Facts are the cars should always come first.

  • cianci66

    nyc lines cianci66 Brad J Bethel Jr Michael DiPasquale Gobills716
    I have provided plenty of facts. The cities that prioritized the auto mobile had massive population growth. The cities that haven’t have been stagnant. including portland. It’s a universal fact that Cars are good for cities.
    From there we can extrapolate that Buffalos decline would have been worse if they hadn’t prioritized that car.

  • needIes

    Here’s a quick and dirty MS Paint hack. Nearly identical parking space count(closer proximity to the street(s) would only encourage more on-street parking anyhow), my 12 waiting cars aren’t blocking any parking spaces yet like theirs are, allows minimal pedestrian crossing of the drive-thru lanes, still works fine with the future proposed parking lot in back, ~4 parking spaces could be sacrificed for a few tables and chairs or another future building near the street, similar to what nyc lines proposed below.

  • cianci66 Brad J Bethel Jr Michael DiPasquale Gobills716 Buffalo’s decline has been due to suburban sprawl, which has everything to do with auto-oriented development.
    Portland has far surpassed Buffalo’s population over the past 60 years. Portland is now the 29th most populous city in the US, versus Buffalo’s 73rd.
    Also, Detroit is one city that became synonymous with the automobile well before they invested in auto-oriented development, yet even they have experienced massive decline since 1950:
    1950 Population: 1,849,568 
    2010 Population: 713,777
    Population Growth: -0.39
    You have failed to prove that cars have “saved” Buffalo, but are instead trying to justify a faulty status quo.

  • North Park

    needIes It really is that easy.  Best part is that it preserves the street front lot to the left for future infill if it should be desired.

  • ebs1962

    Brad J Bethel Jr cianci66 Michael DiPasquale Gobills716

  • ebs1962

    It seems the issue is getting very confused here.  Suburban sprawl and regional growth rates may be indirectly connected but there are far too many variables to point to an auto focused policy or the opposite as the cause of growth or decline.  If you compare Greater Buffalo as in all of Erie County, to other regions that have seen strong growth, we can clearly see Greater Buffalo has done very poorly over the past 50 years.
    Our decline is due to the opening of the Welland Canal, loss of the Steel industry to foreign competition and high taxes driven by a lack of willingness to right size our government structure as population has declined.  Growth in the sunbelt is due to low taxes, good weather, the oil industry and other pro business factors. 
    Many of the fastest growing areas have experienced sprawl brought on by the auto.  However sprawl is really symptomatic of poorly planned growth.  There are real and easily documented costs associated with sprawl.  Those costs are very significant and affect everything from road and parking lot construction, land purchases need for roads and parking, pollution, time wasted in traffic jams, huge energy consumption, environmental damage, traffic accidents resulting in damage, injury and death and the list goes on and on.  These costs are clearly a drag on any economy.
    Further the livability of an area drops dramatically as auto use increases.  These are the reasons why claims are being made that the auto is damaging to the economy.  
    One can not determine that an area is growing or shrinking due to autos because there are too many other variables that affect growth and decline.  We can however determine that life would be much more pleasant and cost us much less if we did not need autos and instead designed our communities in a more thoughtful manner.

  • whateverr

    @nyc lines @cianci66 @Brad J Bethel Jr @Michael DiPasquale @Gobills716  
    n>’fact is, you provide no facts.  … I’m not blaming the car but i don’t see any way in hell your statement could be supported by “fact”.’    ‘…you compared expanding geographic areas to fixed geography that had been built out a century ago and then compared population numbers since 1950.’
    Even if excluding NYC & SF from comparisons of pop growth due to assuming they’re already built out, there are other examples supporting cianci’s argument that if people-growth is a major indicator of thriving, many auto-oriented places are disproportionately thriving compared to those that aren’t auto-oriented.
    One example is the very urbany, high-density, seldom (IMO) stereotyped as auto-oriented, city of Chicago shrinking in people a whopping 6.9% from 2000-2010 while U.S. average growth was 9.7%.  That’s a difference of 16.6%. Being already built out can’t explain that.
    For other examples – the Portland metro isn’t ‘built out’ as NYC & SF, yet its pop growth 2000-2010 badly trailed many places that are IMO often stereotyped as auto-oriented, and which have much higher sprawl than Buffalo according to anti-sprawl org Smart Growth America.
    So nobody will complain I didn’t provide facts…
    % metro net people growth 2000-2010 
    *= more sprawl than Buffalo or Portland, 
    **= way more sprawl than Buffalo or Portland
    1Las Vegas-Paradise, NV+41.8%2Raleigh-Cary, NC +41.8% **
    3Austin-Round Rock, TX +37.3% * 4Charlotte-Rock Hill, NC +32.1%  ** 
    5Riverside-San Bernardino, CA +29.8% **  6Orlando-Kissimmee, FL +29.8%  **
    7Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, AZ +28.9% ** 8Houston-Sugar Land, TX+26.1%  **
    9San Antonio, TX+25.2% ** 10Atlanta-Marietta, GA +24.0% **
    11Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX +23.4% **= 12Nashville-Davidson, TN +21.2% **
    13Jacksonville, FL +19.8% *  14Sacramento-Roseville, CA+19.6% *
    15Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO +16.7% 16Washington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV +16.4%
    17Tampa-St. Petersburg, FL+16.2% *18Salt Lake City, UT968,858+16.0%
    19Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA+15.5%

    47Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY -3.0% shrink
    48Pittsburgh, PA2,431,087 -3.1% shrink *
    49Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH-3.3% shrink *
    50Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI-3.5% shrink
    refs 
    sprawl http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/documents/measuring-sprawl-2014.pdf 
    pop http://www.newgeography.com/content/002153-census-2010-offers-portrait-america-transition

  • whateverr

    Brad J Bethel Jr cianci66 Michael DiPasquale Gobills716
    brad>’Portland has far surpassed Buffalo’s population over the past 60 years.’
    True, but that selective comparison is conveniently ignoring that using the same measurement, many much-more-sprawled-places-than-Buffalo (thus even more sprawled than Portland) have grown in people by even bigger %’s than Portland.
    Examples include Raleigh, Charlotte, Austin, Atlanta, Phoenix, Orlando, Nashville, several in Texas, and others shown in the list I pasted into a comment a few minutes ago.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    biniszkiewicz North Park Matt Marcinkiewicz ImissBuffalo 
    We’re several steps removed from the point at this stage, but, I’d pay you money (not really, but rhetorically) to show me a full Dibella’s lot, and also to show me bad food there.  You might’ve just claimed more than you realized, heh.

  • Matt Marcinkiewicz

    biniszkiewicz Rand503 
    You’ve entirely, entirely missed the broader point.  Step back and ask yourself, why did his comment get 26 likes from people who read this site?  That is your mental starting point, to ponder that question, given that you apparently have Asperger’s.  The answer is: because of the general idea, not the specifics.  The prevailing “dogma” to the extent that it exists amongst the minions here is that synergy-minded urban design is in some sense good while suburban-minded urban design is in some sense bad.
    get it yet, ye autistic hero, you?
    And PS, I’m semi-agnostic on the broader point–I’m no dogmatic urbanist, and I realize that Buffalo has massive systemic problems that ultimately will not be affected by a new Tim Horton’s at Niagara and Albany.  But I like to think I take the broadest possible view of life in general.  For people like you who are specialists regarding the specifics, I tend to hope for just a little less myopia, just for the sake of my own sanity.

  • biniszkiewicz

    Matt Marcinkiewicz biniszkiewicz North Park ImissBuffalo
    are you kidding?
    For a full lot, go there at lunchtime. Try 12:30pm.
    For bad food, try the French Dip (DeBella Dip, whatever they call it). Bad roast beef (for great roast beef, btw, go to Spar’s European Sausage on Amherst near Grant). Salty, nothing burger au jus, meh roll. Wegman’s subs blow away what I saw there.

  • biniszkiewicz

    Matt Marcinkiewicz biniszkiewicz Rand503
    the point is that lots of folks loved the sketch because it was completely out of proportion, showing a building stretching across the entirety of the lot at street front. And because few people on this site consider the efficiencies of traffic flow and parking.

  • grovercleveland

    Really, using autism as an insult. You are a piece of crap

  • biniszkiewicz

    nyc lines biniszkiewicz Matt Marcinkiewicz Rand503
    Yes, it plays a big part in why. Draw that same sketch with the building taking 1/2 the block front instead of all of it, and replace the other half with parking (displaced by the building shifting) and people wouldn’t be nearly so enthusiastic.
    The one sketch to scale does not feature a drive through lane (replacing it with outdoor patio). I haven’t a big objection to placing the building at the sidewalk, as I have said several times. I do object to dismissing out of hand the parking, drive thru and circulation requirements of the tenant. And I strenuously object to the host of commentators eager to outlaw the drive thru lane.

  • JSmith11

    Last call for sprawl! Build it while you still can!

    (Hurry up please, Green Code…)

  • JSmith11

    biniszkiewicz townline 
    Looks like the draft Green Code zones this parcel as N-1S (secondary employment center). A drive-through would not be allowed, nor would a setback building like this with the parking in the front.

  • biniszkiewicz

    JSmith11 biniszkiewicz townline ‘
    Well, that would be a shame. Screw the Green Code. Glad it’s not in place.

  • whateverr

    JSmith11
    js>’Looks like the draft Green Code zones this parcel as N-1S (secondary employment center). A drive-through would not be allowed, nor would a setback building like this with the parking in the front.’
    js>'(Hurry up please, Green Code…)’
    js, thanks for posting that info about what’s being proposed by some unelected rule writers who created the the unofficial draft.
    Before the proposed Green Code becomes law, our elected officials mayor and/or Common Council should improve it in ways including the deletion from the draft of a ban on drive-thrus for that part of Niagara St and other city streets where drive-thrus are appropriate.
    Even the overly-uptight (IMO) laws already existing for Elmwood Village don’t have a drive-thru ban, and as we see the drive-thrus in that part of Elmwood (Elmwood Taco/Sub, First Niagara, Bank of America, M&T, Evans Bank) are more a positive than a negative.  And as bini mentioned, the Tims on Delaware has a popular-with-city-residents drive thru that isn’t a problem (actually now 2 Tims on Delaware in the city with them).  Also on Niagara St, there’s 2 McD’s with drive thus, and a Tims with one near Ontario St.
    For sure in this part of Niagara St near Albany St, a part of Niagara St that’s highly vacant & largely industrial & adjacent to Amtrak & 190, there’d be even less justification for banning drive-thrus like for this new Tims, or for banning front-accessible parking which many businesses on Niagara St choose to have (Rascals’s, and recently upgraded Sun Restaurant, and many others).

  • whateverr

    nyc lines
    n>’1. … You have not provided evidence that the development pattern is what is driving economic growth.’
    Nor did I (or cianci if I’m interpreting correctly, claim cause-effect, but are pointing out correlation; cianci’s initial comment was refuting a comment of DiPasquale’s that implies an opposite correlation (or causation?) with the vague concept of ‘thriving’.  I quote that below.  Of course there can be other factors involved in complex mixes – weather, fiscal-regulatory-labor policies, etc.
    n>’1. Cianci’s main claim is that places not catering to the car are stagnating.  You haven’t addressed that claim.’ 
    True that I didn’t address that part of the claim while I agreed with a more general aspect of cianci’s argument.  
    It’s similar to how you didn’t address this wild broad brush claim of DiPasquale – ‘Cities don’t thrive when they prioritize cars over pedestrians and nice streetscapes.’
    That to me looks like a similarly extreme but opposite claim to this of cianci – ‘The cities that prioritized the auto mobile had massive population growth. had massive population growth.  The cities that haven’t have been stagnant. including portland.’ 
    DiPasquale & cianci both write in a very generalizing styles compared to you & I both more often using a bit more nuance.
    I do think, however, IMO that the list with numbers I posted yesterday does more so (more so; I’m not saying entirely) support cianci’s broad claim compared to DiPasquale’s board claim… if we use 2014 Smart Growth America’s numbers as measure of ‘prioritized the auto mobile’, and if we define thriving/stagnating by relative comparisons of pop growth, and if we for sake of discussion assume NYC’s way-below-average pop growth for both city & metro should be disregarded due to being fully ‘built out’ as you argued.

  • whateverr

    nyc lines
    typo in my reply to 1. – ‘NYC’s wabelow-average pop growth’ should’ve been ‘NYC’s way-below-average pop growth’ 
    ‘2.  Any metro that is growing in this country is built conforming to modern zoning nearly all exclusively written with a basis in auto centric development.’
    Yes, so debates are about relative degrees.
    ‘3.  Are you saying that Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Detroit reject the automobile?’  
    No, not at all. I’m not even saying Portland ‘rejects the auto’.  I’m suggesting the sprawl rankings are a very rough relative proxy for being auto-oriented (to again borrow that descriptor fron Brad’s comment).  
    And I included the 4 Rust Belt metros in the list because they’re of general interest here for comparisons.  If this debate were in a forum focused on some other part of the U.S. instead of Buffalo’s part of it, the I might’ve not have included those.

  • whateverr

    nyc lines
    ‘4. Another (and fuller) measure of economic well being is per capita GDP.’ 
    Since DiPasquale didn’t define ‘thrive’, I think cianci chose a reasonable interpretation based on how many net people are choosing to live where.  
    Your alternative opinion of what’s fuller could also be an interesting way to look at it, not only per-capite GDP but maybe per-capita GDP growth 2000-2010.  Maybe also – job growth?  And median income growth?  Maybe others too…
    ‘5. Is it a coincidence that obesity rates are higher in places that are auto-centric and would you consider that factor in an analysis of economic well being?’ 
    Off top of my head, I’m unfamiliar with that fact claim.  Not saying it’s wrong, just unsure.  
    One thing I’d wonder about it is if obesity rates really are statistically higher in auto-centric suburbs than dense cities?  
    Some recent health advice I’ve noticed says obesity is much more related to decisions of how much to eat rather than amount of exercise.  If that’s true, then it would seem unrelated to auto centricity, but as with pop growth there’s a complex mix of factors.

  • JSmith11

    whateverr nyc lines 
    “One thing I’d wonder about it is if obesity rates really are statistically higher in auto-centric suburbs than dense cities?”
    I won’t wade into the rest of the argument over “thriving cities”, as that is a very vague qualifier, but this question is pretty much a settled one. There is absolutely a significant inverse correlation between obesity and walking, bicycling, and transit use.
    Here’s one link, I’m sure you can find many others:
    http://www.governing.com/news/state/gov-biking-walking-cities-obesity-study.html

  • arcmorris

    Late breaking news –

    The Planning Board tabled the review of the Niagara Street Tim Horton’s “based upon concerns from neighborhood businesses, residents and governing associations.” 
    This is how the Planning Board is supposed to work.  The new Green Code is only as strong a tool as politicians, business-owners and residents are willing to make it.  Lets see what comes out of the redesign. . .

  • Buffaboy

    arcmorris wcperspective maybe you can run a story on this!

  • whateverr

    JSmith11 whateverr nyc lines

    js, thanks for the link but it doesn’t address what I wondered, and neither does this you wrote – ‘There is absolutely a significant inverse correlation between obesity and walking, bicycling, and transit use.’

    What I wondered, (as you quoted me) is ‘if obesity rates really are statistically higher in auto-centric suburbs than dense cities?’  

    Your link reports a correlation between metro areas in which higher rates (although still very low IMO as %’s of pop in those metro areas) of people who choose to commute to work by bike or walking are correlated with metro areas having lower obesity rates.  Its headline says ‘cities’ but its text says metro areas were compared.
    For example it says metro Fort Collins CO has both a relatively low obesity rate at around half, and that 5.3% or residents in that metro either bike or walk to work – which is one of the higher %’s of that for any U.S. metro.
    What I wondered about, OTOH, is if for example say more auto-centric Amherst or Clarence have higher obesity rates than the much more-dense less-auto-centric city of Buffalo? 

    (not necessarily for WNY specifically, but in general?)

  • cianci66

    nyc lines whateverr High rent is from lack of supply not high demand.

  • whateverr

    cianci66 
    c>’High rent is from lack of supply not high demand.’
    It’s combination of both, supply relative to demand.  
    For instance, some east side blocks (say Walden-Bailey area) now have low supply of houses thanks to the mayor’s smart demolishing of dangerous long-vacant houses for which there was no real demand.
    So now there’s less supply than before, on some blocks much less supply – but still lack of high demand – so remaining houses around there won’t have high rents.