City February 1, 2013 12:38 AM

Then and Now: WTF is progress anyway?

Then and Now: WTF is progress anyway?
I had not planned on writing anything for BRO today but then I came across the images shown here and then I read an interesting interview with property developer Nick Sinatra in this month's Buffalo Spree.  He is a repat who has moved back to town with a bang, scooping up dozens of undervalued historic properties and renovating them back to their productive prime.  The magazine asked him if he was a preservationist.  It would seem obvious that he is since he has focused his business on restoring buildings, many of which were in distressed condition.  Oddly, he answered that he was not a preservationist.  He stated:

 "I would say that I am not because I find some of them to be too radical - for example, the movement to stop demolition of the Trico Building. That would be for the benefit of the community, I believe: some people stand in the way of progress." 

I was disappointed to hear this coming from one of the potentially bright new lights who are finally becoming common in Buffalo these days. With the long stream of recent preservation successes in Buffalo the concept that preservationists are obstructing progress should be so throughly debunked by now as to be laughable.  Its like when Mosses parts the sea and the Egyptians still don't believe he was sent by God to lead the Jews. So they ride right into the water as it crashes down on them - and that was after snakes and plague! To call preservationists radical is odd in light of the fact that more than 2/3 of downtown has been demolished over the last 50 years - that is radical. 100% of the neighborhoods east and west of downtown have been removed - that is radical. In many cases even the roads have been removed leaving absolutely no trace of the city that was once there. No memory of the city left at all. Removing whole neighborhoods is what is radical if you ask me.

The Trico Building on Ellicott Street Downtown, known as Plant No.1, that he mentions is the same kind of building that has been renovated with tremendous success in several places in the city.  In the Larkin neighborhood, restored warehouses are seeding the resurgence of a long dead neighborhood.  Another Trico building on Main Street in North Buffalo has been in productive use for decades since its original use as a factory ended.  That building was kept viable with ordinary investment and maintenance. In contrast Trico Plant 1 has sat rotting in the hands of a government agency for years. Allowing valuable buildings to rot should be considered radical and obstructionist. Yet, we are told with a straight face that it is the preservationists who obstruct progress in Buffalo and people believe it.  In Lackawanna, the mayor calls demolition for demolition's sake progress and he is taken seriously! Trico sits in a neighborhood full of Lackawanna style progress. It faces vast acres of dead parking lots that drain life from the city's streets.  Logic would say fill up those parking lots and renovate this great factory building.  Logic unfortunately = obstruction to too many people. The idea that the only place BNMC can expand is to tear down a historic building should elicit guffaws and LOLs.  

That brings me to these images showing the east side of Pearl Street between Seneca and Swan. They are from the Buffalo History Gazette which continues to post a spectacular array of historic images on line.  These pictures are like our conscience. They are evidence of our stupidity and we should take note when one of these "radical" preservationists tries to warn us of our impending irreversible mistakes.  In truth it is not the preservationists who are radicals standing in the way of progress. Progress is blocked by acceptance of the status quo, acceptance of the continual brutalization and destruction of the city's urban environment. 

The oldest of these images shows a magnificent big old building that, judging buy the cars, was likely in its last few years.  It was a big loss when this building was demolished but the multi level parking garage that replaced it was actually quite charming.  The strips of glassy openings against the bright glazed terra cotta cladding were probably the image of the modernism and progress at the time of this photo.  Although this building foretold of the onslaught that cars were about to bring onto the city it was not a bad way to store the machines that were quickly growing in number.  Today we see this building, still in existence but, ravaged by thoughtless changes.  All the windows are filled with concrete block with just the most minimal opening necessary for ventilation. Its brutal, making the street feel cold and dangerous. It is a disgrace that someone would think that this was a good thing to do.  I can't imagine how someone could have so little pride in their property and so much disrespect for the people of the city.  Practically this whole block has been wrecked by stupid renovations and massive demolitions.  It was once packed with spectacular architecture - and I really mean spectacular.

So, when preservationists suggest that perhaps you could expand your operation on the parking lot across the street instead of tearing down the historic building, they are not the radical obstructionists.  The radical obstructionists are the people who do thoughtless and ignorant things like this to your city


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So here is a classic situation that always plays out.

Lazy absent landlord A bails on his classy property for a decade before landlord B takes control with an idea. This guy wants to knock half of it down as part of his rebuild and the whole preservation community steps in to fend for the demolished half. No one had to take it over but once landlord B took it over to make it usable he was the preservationists bitch, because if his idea doesn't line up, then Bam! Out come the protest signs and city hall meetings. It is not landlord B's fault that he has an idea to make himself some money, it's scumbag landlord A who never had to face the firing squad of your fury. Find a local lazy land lord and send him the beat down, because when it is directed toward the new guy, that is where your readers get the obstructionist reputation.

By the way can someone get me Paladino's number? (rim shot!)

Score: 23 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

@synthesis - thanks for being the first to comment. I like your example.

Thanks also to Nick Sinatra for giving the interview and to Buffalo Spree for conducting it.

Personally, I agree with Sinatra in that some "preservationists" are too radical.

My issue with these select few is that they rarely discuss the financial aspects of the property. Hotel Lafayette doesn't even pay city property taxes. Neither does the abandoned St Francis de Sales church.

They rarely discuss what buildings were on the property before the current one. What was torn down to make way for Hotel Statler?

They rarely acknowledge the fact that almost every single structure built in City of Buffalo can be considered historic (over 50 years old.) Personally, I like the Tishman building as is and the Donovan building as was.

Some also have this mindset that if if a certain person lived there or event took place, that the subject property is somehow better and worthier than another. Mark Twain did't build the house he lived in on Delaware Ave and he only lived there for a brief period in time, abandoning the house.

While in Buffalo last summer, I brought up the fact that vinyl windows were developed in Germany over 50 years ago and can now be considered historic. I received a blank stare.

I brought up the fact that a suburban tri-level 1959 home with aluminum widows can be considered historic. I received another blank stare.

Let's build some great projects out of the ruins in Buffalo and create an equal playing field.

replied to synthesis
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Yeah!!!! Progress!!!! Get GEOFF Szymanski on the phone!

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It took me a while to even recognize the relationship between these three photos. (sadly, one has to mentally scour each image for traces of the surroundings that appear -and disappear- over time, to realize that this is the same property photographed over less than a century's time)

The idea of 'progress' has nothing to do with "the benefit of the community", as Sinatra puts it. These images show what benefits the landowner. In the first, catering to people and business. In the second, addressing the needs of the automobile, while doing so with a certain sense of optimism and style. In the third photo, there is no sense of beauty or accommodation, just a get-by attitude to make as much of a buck as possible without investing any care or concern.

Just as I had to examine each image to see how it relates to the next photo, these changes were not the gradual deterioration that comes with time. These were deliberate, thought-out moves that included several visual jolts to the streetscape... Somebody consciously decided that the 6-story building would come down; somebody consciously decided to replace it with an attractive parking garage; somebody consciously decided that the M&T building next door would make more money if leveled to a surface lot; somebody consciously decided to remove the rooftop finials and pediments to save on maintenance costs; somebody consciously decided that unpainted cinder blocks were more economical that glass block and terra cotta; somebody consciously decided it wasn't worth their time to even remove the old sign standards when they installed a cheap new 'park' sign; somebody consciously realized that the building had become so ugly and non-descript that the only way to tell people where they should and shouldn't put their car was to paint yellow and green along the curb and ugly red lettering rudely across the aluminum door.

None of these actions were radical, but I'm sure that each was noticed and then forgotten until somebody bothered to look at an old photo from 30 years before. Each action was a drop in the bucket, until the bucket got splashed in our faces while somebody told us that a single loss or gain is not radical.

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You know a few sad thoughts cross my mind.

1. I really have to pinch myself to think of the Bethlehem Steel bldg being gone. It's almost to stupid to imagine.

2. I am 45 and I can tell you the Buffalo I grew up in had already torn down many great great buildings. I of course didn't know because I was too young. But now I see these buildings in pictures and I .... shake my head. Imagine if these buildings still existed? How great would it be to see them and see them preserved.

3. Lastly, for the last ....70 yrs we have had the worst leaders in the country and most of them were democrats. It reminds me of something my Mom used to tell me growing up. "If you keep doing the same things, you're going to get the same results." How much can we all take before we finally say enough and elect someone who isn't the candidate we like, but the candidate who will make some smart decisions that are good for the city. The longer this continues, the more ridiculous we appear to the rest of the country.

replied to DeanerPPX
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I understand your frustration, but this is not a problem unique to Buffalo. There have been many, many, wonderful historic buildings torn down all over the country over the years, particularly in NYC. Have you been through the eyesore that is currently Penn Station lately? That is just one example. Grand Central Station, a historic landmark, was very close to being torn down, and that action was being taken in a supposedly world class city. You could argue that most cities are ineptly run, at times.

Mr Sinatra is not saying, as I interpret it, that he thinks the Trico building SHOULD be torn down, only that he disagrees with the attempts to stop its development into something else. You and Steel obviously don't share this opinion, but can you at least admit that it's OK for not everyone thinks this building is worth saving in it's current form? Some people may actually not like it all that much and that is a valid opinion to have.

I get the nostalgia for the past and how great it would be if so many mistakes hadn't been made over decades. But that is not a reason to deem every old building one of historical significance that must be preserved. You have to pick your battles. The Medical campus is actually doing good things for the city of Buffalo.

replied to pfk67
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Nice article, Steel.

That second image is fantastic. That building would be a gem today, both buildings would be. Unfortunately,...

I simply can't understand the "progress" crowd. Real progress is slapping this city in the face - rehabilitation of the jewels of our past, the built environment, treasures attracting national attention (rather than the typical Bills losses, snow, et al.) - and there are some, many, who feel perpetuating the unsuccessful approach of the past 50 years is the true path of progress. It's just dumbfounding.

And Sinatra. You gotta be kidding. Not worthy of owning the properties he does. You're gonna capitalize, handsomely, yet you chastise the very source of your riches.

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Sinatra...he did it his way

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Best comment of the year

replied to ivan putski jr
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I don't understand people who are self-proclaimed "anti-preservationists", yet benefit, in one form or another, from our historic stock (ie opportunities for developers to restore old buildings (because they are still standing), the cultural tourism dollars, etc.)

Fine if you don't like old buildings. However, you have to be really blind not to recognize economic impact adaptive resuse/restorations is having on the city; notice the national press about Buffalo--they ALWAYS focus on our architecture. You don't think receiving national recognition for our architecture is "progress"?

The anti-preservation crowd should turn its attention on the real "obstructionists" who have impeded progress: our political leadership, who are often enabled by/in collusion with a core group of business insiders. It's their inabilities, corruption and general shortcomings that have truly stymied the region.

Preservationists, I am sorry to say, just aren't that powerful.

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To be fair, I don't think he said he was anti preservationist.

replied to Travelrrr
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I should have qualified that I was not speaking about Nick specifically, as I have not read the article, but about anti-preservationists in general.

replied to STEEL
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i'm getting the feeling that the label 'preservationist' is starting to lose its meaning, which may not be a bad thing. more and more people like nick sinatra are doing preservation, whether or not they adopt the label.

if he was in a position to decide trico's fate, i'd be appalled. but he isn't.

the neighbors who rallied around the jersey st. livery didn't seem to identify as preservationists, either, but they fought like hell for it. and good for them.

so give nick his tax credits, help him get his buildings restored, and continue to fight like hell for trico.

i propose a vocabulary change: saving and restoring buildings isn't what 'preservationists' do, it is what good citizens do. good citizenship = good stewardship of irreplaceable assets. bad citizenship = neglect and demolition of irreplaceable assets.

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It's not the saving and restoring that's turned "preservationist" into a dirty word around here. It's the self-righteous attitude and horrible timing.

replied to grad94
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We are building lovers. We want to see buildings rehabbed and reloved.

Personally, I appreciate all types of buildings - old and new! It's just that the old ones are built in a way that is no longer done, with materials we no longer have and with a character and placement that most cities do not or can not create today.
When I see a vacant building, I usually see opportunity. Trico is iconic. It can easily be the next Larkin land, tri main, AC Lofts, elk lofts etc.. Considering the BNMC needs the space, getting creative with Trico should be a no brainer but they prefer shiny, poorly built new builds instead.

Preservation can be a tough word to use because really we should be called visionaries -wanting something better than the status quo. Everyone has a different definition of progress... Personally, I want Buffalo to be unique, a place that people appreciate and love because it is not like every anywhere else. The funny thing is the uniqueness lies within our existing environment- one that is worth saving and reusing.

replied to grad94
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Hell, I have an MS in Historic Preservation and I don't like to be referred to as a "preservationist." It's used as a catch all phrase to denote anyone from a blue hair in Charleston to the guy camping out in front of Bethlehem Steel to those of us who actually are practitioners and professionals in the field. Are Rocco, Sinatra and the other developers who rehab historic buildings "preservationists?" If the term is defined by feelings and motive, probably not. If it is defined as action and results than yes. Profit motivated development has been the primary driver in the adaptive reuse of non single-family homes in this country.

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I agree and disagree with Sinatra. The Trico building should be demolished in the middle and the outer fabric of the building maintained. There should be a modern building growing from the middle as a phoenix rising from the ashes. That is how we say Buffalo has arrived this century.

Look at Albany, they are defining themselves as a center for modern industry by building a massive industrial facility that combines manufacturing and education in one facility. You cannot miss it when the Thruway splits apart @ the Northway.

If we are going to define ourselves as a center for Commerce and Health related industry then we need to have something that says we honor the past and look towards the future. The medical campus has tons of modern buildings, but we need the anchor.

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I feel similar to sinatra. My instincts tell me to preserve 95% of the time but I would not define myself by it and certainly do not feel part of the preservation community.

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Hahah. 95 % of the time. We are not even cracking 40%!

replied to davvid
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And what about the new things being built? What percentage of that stuff is any good? How much energy are we putting into discussing that and making sure that Buffalo is benefiting from the best and latest practices? I personally feel that the preservation community is too driven by a sense of nostalgia. Preservationists often talk about architecture and cities from the i-like-old-things or older-is-better point of view instead of discussing the range of what is possible. Preservationists send the message that the people who lived before us were more entitled to shape the world around them than we are.

Take parking, you hate parking lots so instead of designing a better way to integrate parking into the city or a strategy to wean the community off of individual transport, you decide to rail against the automobile. You tend to favor resistance over design. Its a fundamentally negative point of view.

replied to STEEL
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In what universe are you reading anything I have written that is not in favor of good design either modern or a finely restored building? Why are so many in Buffalo so willing to give a pass to a building owner who leaves a building without a roof for a decade? Why is the preservationists the bad guy but the guy that blocks in the building's windows with cinder block given a pass. They only conclusion I can come to is that people in Buffalo have been psychologically damaged by decades of economic decline.

There is nothing nostalgic about great historic buildings that are restored or maintained for today's use. There is nothing nostalgic about the world's great historic cities like Paris, or Boston, or San Francisco. There is nothing nostalgic about great historic walkable mid size cities like Madison Wisconsin. Are you really suggesting that cinder block windows are great but the restored buildings of the Larkin neighborhood are just useless nostalgia? Really? Are you demo people been looking around at how much improvement has come to the city since they stopped demolishing EVERYTHING? If not you need to do so.

replied to davvid
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More resistance...You can choose to reject everything I'm saying but don't be surprised when pro-preservation people think preservationists are too radical.

I didn't say you are against new/modern design. I'm just saying that you choose to use this forum to focus on preservation or harp about the loss of density. That has become your thing and by association Buffalo Rising's thing. Buffalo doesn't really have a culture of seeking out and testing new architectural solutions or criticizing and appreciating the best of what goes on around the world. There is no "design media" in Buffalo that is promoting that discussion as intensely as you promote preservation and new urbanism.


replied to STEEL
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'Progress' is often affiliated with destroying memories of the past. This is a typical mindset of many suburbanites who only want new, bland, modern structures and all the factories and historic buildings torn down. There is no happy medium. Either you value the historic architecture and spaces that made us a world renowned city, or you don't. What we need are people who not only value out current stock of architecture, but also new builds that reflect the prominence of the old while looking to the future. I wish developers would just spend a little more money to get a design somewhat presentable in today's modern age of architectural design. Yea it may cost more but the turn around you will get from the community and architectural enthusiasts will be more than worth that extra measure.

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It sounds to me like Nick Sinatra is a pragmatist and an achiever. I.e., the best kind of person we could have right now. Not everyone is going to agree on every project's worth. To Nick, Trico is not worth the costs of rehab when that money could be used to save several other more worthy and re-usable projects. That makes total sense to me.

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Oh I did not know there was a plan to save other buildings. I thought the plan was to demolish half of a building that a government agency left rotting and leave it as a zombie building so that they could build a mediocre new building and an empty space. Imagine if they had just put a roof on the Trico building after it was ripped off. That would have saved money. I am not sure what is pragmatic about not putting a roof on a building. People are so brain washed they don't look at the real issue anymore.

replied to ex-716
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While some of Buffalo has started to crumble, other sections are just now beginning to thrive. This site will show you what has become of many historical sites in Buffalo, for better or for worse.

http://www.buffalothenandnow.com

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I think Sinatra's comment might've been misinterpreted and brought out of context in this article. Preservationists in the purist form are interested in PRESERVING as much as possible from the original state of a building, city, landscape etc. right? If that means restoring the place some, so be it.

To me it seems that Sinatra is simply pointing out that some people (apparently SOME Preservationists) fail to see that not all preservation is for the best! I believe what the Preservationists really succeed at is long-term vision, and that's something Buffalo could use more of so I'm thankful that their movement has become the zeitgeist in Buffalo. What Preservationists don't always succeed at is showing how, in quantitative terms, an old building worth 10 years of battle is worth keeping when a new building with perhaps new architectural merit (like many of the buildings on the nearby medical campus) could be built in 3 and bring economic benefit 7 years earlier. It's about opportunity cost, and 10 years vs. 3 years can be a hard sell.

Again, I don't think Sinatra doesn't get this. He wants to avoid being catalogued with the group of people who think that ALL things should be kept, regardless of how much sense it makes. in this way "Radical" isn't about radical action as much as it is about holding back forces of potentially positive, attractive, meaningful development. A city of old buildings isn't necessarily better than a city of new buildings. Atlanta is a good example--barely any architectural history left in the place yet so much character and so much life.

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Why would it take 10 years to save this building and if you look across the street from Trico you can see how silly your "save every thing" comment is.

We are in the "save something" mode now.

replied to DietSoda
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Wouldn't take 10 years to save--but already we're looking at how many years of discussion/debate? And then how many years would it take to secure investment? And then how many years to secure approved plans by City? Then how much time to build? It adds up!

Which side of the street am I looking at in order to evidence how silly I sound? Can't be sure by your comment.

replied to STEEL
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The east side is parking lots as far as you can see and it should take no more time to renovate a building that it takes to tear it down and build something on part of its land. I don't get your point on that. There can be no reasonable claim in Buffalo that there is not enough empty land to build on so the historic building needs to go. More that 60% of Downtown has already been removed for parking lots and mostly bad new buildings. When will you be happy? When we remove 90%?

replied to DietSoda
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Ouch. Not sure I deserved that punch.

replied to STEEL
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You guys should take it outside. Maybe wait at the airport for him to arrive.

replied to DietSoda
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True, but there is a reasonable different claim than this -

steel>"There can be no reasonable claim in Buffalo that there is not enough empty land to build on so the historic building needs to go."

For some old (arguably 'historic') buildings, there aren't people willing to buy and own them in a way that safely maintains them or rehabs, etc.

AM&A's for instance. That's been offered for sale many times. Even Rocco decided against buying it.

Erie Freight House is another. It was for sale, or else Savarino wouldn't have been able to buy it with intent to build something else there. Why didn't anyone (person or group) buy it at that time who wanted to save it or at least mothball it?

H-O grain elevators were for sale, or else Senecas wouldn't have been able to buy them.
Owners of that church in North Buff were showing developers (Frizlen) through it in recent years, so apparently there were open to selling if anybody wanted it.

And so on...

replied to STEEL
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Good article, Steel.

Regarding Sinatra - his viewpoint is disappointing but not at all surprising. Remember that his first instinct was to tear down that small building at Main/Ferry.

As a developer he's a good asset for Buffalo. But like many people he won't consider preservation by default. It will still probably have to be spelled out and fought-for every time.

Score: -4 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I agree. I think he is potentially a great asset in Buffalo but this statement shows he is buying into the lazy thinking that everything needs to be torn down if someone just says it does. The lazy way of thinking in Buffalo has resulted in acres and acres of parking across the street form Trico and throughout the city.

replied to 300miles
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Has he actually said that EVERYTHING needs to be torn down?

replied to STEEL
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> But like many people he won't consider preservation by default.

I think he's going to be motivated to do whatever makes financial sense by default. If it happens to be preservation, so much the better. If not, then there you have it.

replied to 300miles
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I agree. He's a business person. If the return's greatest rehabbing, that's what he'll do.

This article seems a bit bizarre to me. No investor is a preservationist. I've rehabbed properties, but I'm not a preservationist. If someone wants to buy one of my 'historic' properties, I'd sell it, and leave it up to them what to do with it.

A preservationist is a person on the sidelines, that may be able to increase the value of a property as a rehab, by increasing demand by promoting older structures.

That doesn't put me in the 'tear it all down crowd'. It puts me in the 'I need to do what maximizes value'.

replied to pampiniform
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I call BS on your statement. You clearly are blind , willfully or not to what is going on in the preservation movement. I also find it sad that so many like you do what it takes only for yourself with no thought of improving the community you live in. Is that really what makes Buffalo run? Maximizing self benefit at the expense of everyone else?

replied to benfranklin
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My improving an abandoned Allentown building 20 years ago, when no one else was buying in the area, and now renting nice apartments in it... I'd say that improves Buffalo a million times more than your posts from far off.

You may be a great architect, but your understanding of the real world, at least here in Buffalo, is lacking.

I'm sure you've heard a fool and his money are soon parted. An investor that rehab's an old building that has no hope to get his money back is neither an investor, or a preservationist, just a fool.

replied to STEEL
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When are we going to learn. On the plus side, at least Sinatra lives, work and plays here. I respect that he has skin in the game and is actively engaged in our community and doesn't toss bombs out from afar. Cheers to him.

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Well, the story is not really about Sinatra but about Buffalo's continued apology for those who continually degrade the city while blaming those who point that it is not good to continue degrading the city. Shooting the messenger is a time honored Buffalo way of doing things isn't it?

Why do people in Buffalo accept windows filled in with concrete blocks??

replied to ScreenPass
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I'm not blaming anyone. I am simply applauding people who are active on the ground doing, their voice matters. I believe it is more useful than condemning a community's choice from afar.

If you have a problem with that, than good.

replied to STEEL
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So you are not open to outside criticism? Because why?

replied to ScreenPass
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Hummmm how does that saying going again? Some about a pot and a kettle?

replied to STEEL
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I appreciate the sentiments in this article, but am not overly worried by what Nick said. On Trico, while he's entitled to his opinion, he doesn't have any particular say in what happens to the building. He's a close pal of Paladino, so it doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that publicly about preservationists. I'm more interested in what Sinatra does, which I think is favorable so far. He came out strongly for bolstering the preservation tax credits last year:
http://www.buffalorising.com/2012/07/hey-governor-cuomo-sign-this-bill-today-we-get-to-work-tomorrow.html
and whether you chalk that up to enlightened self-interest it's something that favors adaptive reuse in the city.

On the current appearance of the Esenwein & Johnson parking garage, yeah, it sure is horrid. If I hadn't been on an architectural tour with Martin Wachadlo, I never would have known it was a parking garage designed by a noted architectural firm. But at least it's been preserved, and survived the worst years for DT Buffalo buildings. I'm hoping it will get a nice rehab in the near future, and when the time comes I look forward to the rare opportunity to write positive things about a parking garage ;-)

Speaking of parking garages & facades, I just noticed yesterday the Seneca garage across from the baseball stadium recently got a sheet-metal facade "extreme makeover." Anyone know what's up with that?!

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All that and "WTF" too! Otherwise, very good responses.

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It seems BR has been a little slow lately...Developers/owners of HSBC Tower announced big ideas for a mixed use plan, I don't think I saw a spot on the $5M park proposed in front of Donovan Building or any feedback from the citizens meeting on Ohio Street Parkway. Someone attached a bizjournal piece on a new Elmwood restaurant. It looks like a small grocery store opened in Ellicott Sq Buidling and now I just heard an official study will commence on skyway removal. I used to depend on BR to catch up on this stuff now I am just hearing little pieces everywhere.

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Exactly. I attended that Ohio St. meeting and had some good conversations with people there but the story is already on page 2 of the archives. Any comments would be buried in an essentially dead story on this site. Lots of good stories making the news out there and we are debating chocolate and red dresses. Is anyone listening? Contact me I have answers.

replied to The Boss
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...and what is going on with the "Church" at Colvin/Tacoma? They stopped demoing and are now filling in the lot with the tower still standing there.

Now that's a WTF... update us if you can. I have been unable to get details other than it has apparently been saved.

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I would argue there needs to be allocations for new architecture, to fit the rapidly emerging technologies associated with the emergence of the new economy and the demands of the creative class. Preservationists, like old buildings like Trico Plant #1. Does the layout and configuration of this facility align itself with the infrastructure demands of a wet lab and research? I would state probably not, the structure has significantly lower than required floor to deck heights, unaligned floor levels and tight column spacings.

The building is iconic? It was placed on the Register for tax purposes.

It may make sense to do a redevelopment of the structure from a mere floor loading and anti-vibration perspective similar to the Donavon or Avant,remove the curtain wall masonry facade and open up floor to deck heights of 20', then maybe you have something re workable to a job creating lab incubator.

Why didn't Trico reuse the houses and structures that were previously located at the corner of Ellicott and Goodell? Oh these structures couldn't accommodate the needs of a people employing manufacturing facility, so they were demo'd and new ones constructed.It is the same thing we are facing today. Form follows function.

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we no longer have to be baited by the new vs. old argument. we have torn down so much and have so much vacant land that we can have both. it is a false dichotomy. no one should accept the claim that we cannot have this or that fabulous new building unless something else goes to the landfill first, i.e. trico, lackawanna steel, church on colvin, etc.

seriously: isn't that how every demolition is sold to us? we'd be meeting the apparently bottomless demand for "shovel ready sites?" so, where are the shovels? how come no matter how many acres of "shovel ready sites" we create, developers only want to scrape sites that already have viable (in most cases) buildings on them?

replied to informedone
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Exactly

replied to grad94
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"no one should accept the claim that we cannot have this or that fabulous new building unless something else goes to the landfill first, i.e. trico, lackawanna steel, church on colvin, etc."

I don't think anyone is?

replied to grad94
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What are you talking about - yes they are.

replied to Up and coming
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So the reason why the church and the admin building was torn down was because there's something new going up and the developer said that something new can't go up until they come down? Is cool though you're in Chicago, I don't expect you to know what's going on.

replied to STEEL
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"Is cool though you're in Chicago"

Getting kinda old. I hope you never have to follow your career away from your hometown. On the other hand...

replied to Up and coming
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The truth never gets old. Also, being an architect provides you the great ability to work virtually, which David obviously isn't familiar with.

replied to LouisTully
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What does this statement mean?

replied to Up and coming
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Actually I never said that anything was going where the church was torn down. So, what is your point?

replied to Up and coming
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Buffalo is 60% demolished. There is no shortage of land in the urban core or in the surrounding neighborhoods.

There is no shortage in Erie County or Western NY for that matter.

Now if your arguing for a fund for new buildings, then they exist in the millions of tax breaks and subsidies.

Probably less than 1% of those tax breaks go to restore historic buildings. There is no fund at all to reconstruct iconic buildings demolished.

replied to informedone
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Some of the new cities in the US and the world have nothing to restore. They are competing to create the legacy of their golden age because they have NOTHING.

Buffalonians kind of remind me of the Italians in Italy in the sense that they have historic buildings but for the most part are prideful but ambivalent. They are content to let most crumble back to dust.

Preservation is important. Its our story, our identity, our legacy for our progeny. In marketing terms, its our brand telling others our image of who we are and what we are about. Are content to let Chicken Wings and Snow Storms tell our story?

Part and Parcel of telling who we are today and who we are capable of being tomorrow is telling the story of who we were!!!

Dont we want to tell the story of strong entrepreneurial and hard working families, walkable neighborhoods, trolleys, magnificent parks and urban architecture, dynamic industry and trade that joined us with the world.

60% of downtown is gone and the neighborhoods to the east and west of downtown. Thats huge! Thats like Buffalo being a London or Berlin in WWII but instead of a World War, Buffalonians did it to Buffalonians. Thats alot of pages ripped right out of the book of our hometown.

Just because Buffalo is not longer among the largest and richest doesnt mean we must shrink to myopic parochialism and demolish.

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That is a fantastic statement. Very well articulated.

replied to paulsobo
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from Paulsobo "Some of the new cities in the US and the world have nothing to restore. They are competing to create the legacy of their golden age because they have NOTHING."

What city in the US doesn't have a structure worth saving?

replied to paulsobo
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Article is dead on epically with Sinatra. Anyone that would paint an historic building (FENTON) with the color of their company logo is more interested in self promotion and ego than anything. That blue looks awful on that building

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And yet, the world continues to turn. The buildings future is looking up for once, lets pick nits over paint color. I am fairly certain you are the exact person he is talking about and why he doesn't want to associate himself to the word preservationist. Can't blame him.

replied to JimmyJohn
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WTF - So now I'm a obstructionist which is your definition of a preservationist because I think the color doesn't fit the style or period of the building. I'm sure a lot of thought went into the color choice but just for the wrong reasons. Do you like the aqua BLUE eisenbart?

replied to Eisenbart
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Ugly as that Pearl Street parking ramp is, it's one of the only (if not THE only) mixed-use parking ramps in Buffalo, with active retail on the ground floor facing the street.

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Maybe it's an erroneous perception, but a lot of times it seems the progress crowd are the same people having Tea Parties and sharing ideologies of people 200 years ago like fear of a tyrannical government and the need to own a weapon. So progress with destroying buildings, just not progress socially. They should bring back wigs, knickers, and men wearing tights.

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Do you have any examples of the "progress crowd" sitting around having Tea Parties, or are you just spouting off nonsense......because it's probably the latter.

replied to LouisTully
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Well, you would readily recognize nonsense so I'll respect your wisdom there.

No, no examples. Just my perception that there are people who stand in support of progress - destroy Old North for progress, destroy Trico for progress, et al. - and there are people who want to return to the days of ol'. Seems like an overlap.

replied to Up and coming
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LT - if no examples, not even one, then on what is your perception based that "a lot of times it seems the progress crowd are the same people having Tea Parties and sharing ideologies of people 200 years ago"?

If the 'lot of times' doesn't mean a lot of real instances of an overlap, then it just means a lot of times you've thought it up as a hypothetical?

FWIW, the main advocate of demolishing Old North (Bethlehem building) - the official who did describe in the media that demo as "progressive" and more than anyone made it happen when it did, Mayor Szymanski - seems the opposite of a tea party supporter.
He's a mainstream member of the political party who so often criticizes the tea party movement. He's an enthusiastic endorser of Barack Obama, and supporter of fellow Lackawanna native Mark Poloncarz. He's also spoken very favorably of Cuomo.
Nice counterexample to your example-free-so-far perceived overlap.

I doubt any NYS officials involved with SUNY, UB, or BNMC who control fate of the Trico are involved with anything tea partyish either. I'd guess quite the opposite there too.

And probably I shouldn't even ask what's so bad about favoring any ideologies in the Bill of Rights even though it's over 200 years old.

replied to LouisTully
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Those are reasonable comments. The perception I reference is mostly from comments on here or BuffNews. I'll try and dig up some examples when it's not 9 o'clock on a Friday. Maybe after the bar :)

replied to whatever
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.......any examples?

replied to LouisTully
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Well well... we have Sinatra who was in Chicago and came back to Buffalo to invest in buildings and Steele who is in Chicago who writes about investing in buildings in Buffalo. Kinda funny right? It must drive Steele mad that Sinatra has done more for Buffalo in such a short period of time than all the years of shouting from the rooftops about Buffalo from the hilltops of Chicago. Talk is cheap isn't it? For a second there I thought Sinatra owned the building and was planning on tearing it down. But now I see I was flashed pretty pictures of pretty buildings from 100 years ago in an attempt to polarize the issue of preservation. Lame.

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Based on your comment I see that you are fine with concrete block windows. That is a touch that should help attract a lot of new people to from Chicago.

replied to Eisenbart
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Cinder block windows holding you back Steele? Maybe Sinatra can do us all a favor and buy this building and remove the cinder blocks so you can finally move back to Buffalo and stop being the largest hypocrite on the face of the planet.

You know, I agree with a lot of the points you make but you need to kick it back a notch. You wrote a long winded underhanded post that was uncalled for simply because he doesn't agree with you.

replied to STEEL
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There was no criticism of Sinatra other than to ask him to rethink what preservation is and to suggest the real radical obstructionists are the buy and hold demo by neglect owners. Sinatra is a big boy. I think he can handle that.

replied to Eisenbart
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Sometimes I have this dream where I am wandering around the Buffalo streets, mainly downtown, and it is mostly deserted with old buildings. Lots of the 3 to 4 story type very densely situated. Sort of like the Birds Eye view from 1880. I know the streets and what should be on them but these buildings I don't recognize. I wander through streets looking for something familiar. But it is an amazing sight and I'm aware of my surroundings. If I happen to enter one it is usually abandoned and falling apart. Then after a while I wake up. Maybe I've been staring at old maps and pictures too much.

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paulsabo - re: "Thats a lot of pages ripped right out of the book of our hometown."

An impactful statement to remember.

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At least Sinatra is here in Buffao actually putting his money were his mouth is unlike you Steele. Other than these relentless posts what have you actually done? Do you own and renovate property, go to meetings with the common council or preservation board? Easy for you to condemn people or actions from afar. I would have far more respect for you if you were actually here fighting the fight. Why are you not a repat and continue to evade that question?

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How small minded of you, Lady--one doesn't have to live in Buffalo in order to "contribute". Steele's published a book on Buffalo's architecture, raised a lot of awareness via his articles, been very involved with grassroots preservation initiatives.

replied to ladyinwhite
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You have not seen relentless yet Lady. The beauty of BRO versus other media is that I can keep writing and writing and writing on this subject as long as I want and if anyone is out there reading hopefully they start talking about this important subject and hopefully they start realizing that just because someone owns property they are not some kind of prince who can abuse his subjects. People in Buffalo have been way to accepting of owners who are wrecking the city. More parking lots, trees growing from roofs, concrete block windows should not be acceptable to the people of Buffalo. The city belongs to everyone. If you are an owner of a property your first obligation is to make the city better not worse.

replied to ladyinwhite
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A little "WTF" goes a long way! And this comment could well cause Steele's post to go past #74!

I check the articles here every so often. Sometimes there are updates on interesting past posts, but mostly not. Seems if it weren't for steel's stuff this Website would have no comments at all. Seems this site should be retitled Steele's Views...

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When it was originally built, I doubt anyone involved considered it to be anything special. Of course any structure built in those days required certain "flourishes" in keeping with the post-Victorian zeitgeist. To see all the handwringing here over this now sadly deflowered and humble edifice seems pointless. No doubt in time someone will see the value in restoring as much of the facade as possible regardless of the use inside but for now, it seems no different than any number of such buildings tucked away in CBDs across America.

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Having lived in Buffalo all my life and recently moved away the lack of and appreciation of preservation barely exists in Buffalo. I live in a city that is much older than Buffalo and it is amazing to see the support of preservation. Just like Buffalo there are many run down areas in my new city, but it seems there is certain wide-spread understanding and support when it comes to preservation. Hopefully Buffalo will wake up and realize that its future is its past.

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