City February 5, 2013 9:32 AM

New Tenants at Larkin Center of Commerce Leave the Suburbs in Favor of the City

Mike Puma 69

The sixth floor of the Larkin Center of Commerce (701 Seneca Street) is filling up quickly with new tenants as ongoing redevelopment efforts continue. In the last year the building has welcomed three new companies that have relocated from the suburbs.

The certified public accounting firm (CPA) of Schunk, Wilson, & Company has returned to Buffalo this year after spending more than thirty years in Amherst. Originally located in the city, the firm left like many other companies for the suburbs in the 1970s. The firm was founded in 1966 and consistently ranks in the top 25 WNY CPA firms in Business First. They are settling in nicely to their new space as employees continue to make small aesthetic touches like recovering cubicle walls with new patterned fabric.

Another newer tenant on the sixth floor is the Strauss Group, which moved from Williamsville about one year ago. The company is an executive search consultant that is, "a distinctive blend of pure entrepreneurial energy with the underpinnings of corporate structure" and "offers executive search as well as contract staffing solutions."

Finally, Worldwide Express has been in their new space for eight months after moving in from Williamsville. The company has additional offices in Rochester, Syracuse, Tulsa and Pittsburgh to name a few. Worldwide Express has a partnership with UPS that enables them to offer light package services for domestic and international shipping. They also specialize in freight shipping and offer "domestic and international air freight services through over 30 regional, national, and global carriers."

A common factor of these groups moving to the City of Buffalo is obviously the building, but also the emerging urban node that is the Larkin District. These three groups moving back/to Buffalo represent a growing trend to return to an urban setting. Slowly but surely, more employers are vacating large, suburban, one-story office parks in favor of spaces in emerging urban corridors. The continued renovation at 701 Seneca is another great example in Buffalo of repurposing our rich historic assets and illustrates the ongoing efforts of revitalizing the communities of our city.

For additional photos of the progress at the Larkin Center of Commerce and the Larkin District, click here

View image

Comments

69 Comments Leave a comment

Sheldon S. Kornpett, D.D.S.

February 5, 2013 10:07 AM

SW stole my backsplash!

[ Reply ]

Score: -3 ( 11 votes )

Up and coming

February 5, 2013 11:00 AM

If that's true, it was a bad choice. That backsplash will be dated in 5-7 years.

[ Reply ]

replied to Sheldon S. Kornpett, D.D.S.

Score: -8 ( 16 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 11:34 AM

Nice! Interior designer, too! So many hats...

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: 7 ( 9 votes )

Up and coming

February 5, 2013 1:03 PM

Jack of all trades, master of none my friend.

[ Reply ]

replied to LouisTully

Score: -3 ( 5 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 2:29 PM

Sing it, sister. You're speaking my language.

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

Sheldon S. Kornpett, D.D.S.

February 5, 2013 2:41 PM

They told me the same thing when I started dating your mother, but we're still hot and heavy!

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: 8 ( 10 votes )

Up and coming

February 6, 2013 8:47 AM

"when I started dating your mother"

....I never pegged you as a guy who'd be into necrophilia

[ Reply ]

replied to Sheldon S. Kornpett, D.D.S.

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

Sheldon S. Kornpett, D.D.S.

February 6, 2013 9:07 AM

Oh, but I sooooo am.

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: 2 ( 2 votes )

elmdog

February 5, 2013 10:47 AM

Kool article...how many employees did these companies bring?

[ Reply ]

Score: 8 ( 8 votes )

Mike Puma

February 5, 2013 11:46 AM

Close to 50 employees in total.

[ Reply ]

replied to elmdog

Score: 7 ( 7 votes )

Up and coming

February 6, 2013 9:13 AM

Any update on the loft aspect that's supposed to be built in Larkin District.

[ Reply ]

replied to Mike Puma

Score: 2 ( 2 votes )

elmdog

February 6, 2013 9:17 AM

That is better than zero...Larking has created a neighborhood with jobs that range from executives to college grads...banking to healthcare to attorneys to collections...This is how you create neighborhoods...Its masses of people and ranges of ages that attracts new business etc....For our trendy neighborhoods to continue this is what it needs...Allen and Delaware, Elmwood village, Elmwood Bryant, allentown, washington ellicott area....These areas are growing and they need to attract young and old to the area to live..I think attracting one of the bigger insurance companies back downtown or a large collection agency, ingram micro type companies will change neighborhoods, build mass and create great livable areas...Small companies moving downtown is nice but I am waiting for a large move from out of town or the suburbs...

[ Reply ]

replied to Mike Puma

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

Up and coming

February 6, 2013 11:38 AM

Geico was a huge miss by the city.

[ Reply ]

replied to elmdog

Score: 3 ( 5 votes )

Cam33r4

February 5, 2013 11:11 AM

Hooray for more downtown workers!

[ Reply ]

Score: 12 ( 12 votes )

Buffalogni

February 5, 2013 11:26 AM

Very nice! I think the people involved with this area are doing great work.

[ Reply ]

Score: 5 ( 7 votes )

elmdog

February 5, 2013 11:27 AM

The move downtown is amazing...I want to see a park like this soon....I think the M&T lot between Washington and ellicot would be perfect

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/316694_2344370764070_1733985452_n.jpg

[ Reply ]

Score: 5 ( 5 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 11:59 AM

The exterior facade renovations to the Seneca Industrial Center (formerly the Larkin Manufacturing facility) by the group of investors now registered as Seneca Larkin 701 LLC., has destroyed the integrity of the historic exterior fabric of the building and it contrasts horribly with all the work that Howard Zemsky and his associates have put into the Larkin District. This group had pledged to invest up to $50 million to redevelop this building and the former Larkin Power House at 635 Seneca St. The Seneca Larkin 701 LLC development group has also received federal funds to help facilitate this project. The investment group is also seeking to list the properties on the National and State Register of Historic Places to allow the project to receive tax credits for a National Parks Service-grade historic rehabilitation. Both properties at 701 and 635 Seneca Street are located on western side of the former Larkin Warehouse (now the Larkin at Exchange building) that was rehabilitated by Howard Zemsky.

The former Larkin Manufacturing facility was previously clad with a grayish stucco-that was added some years ago by a prior owner-covering a beautiful brick exterior. In some areas of the building where the stucco facade was pealing away, the gorgeous brick underside had been exposed to view, and it appeared to be in very good condition. In many old photos the reddish brick exterior can be seen wrapping around the entire facade of the eight story structure. Many of the windows were draped with a brick arch that is now covered by the unsightly stucco material leaving only a bland square window opening in the building shell. Below the windows in many places is a thick Medina sandstone sill. Many of the original windows were a pair of double-hung twelve over twelve pane window units. This is a magnificent building both inside and outside. If restored properly, the exterior facade would have its period windows updated and full restoration of the brick facade with arched windows and sills restored to its original appearance. Tim Tielman expressed concern to me about this some time ago. They were trying to at least have some of the facade restored as well.

Seneca Larkin 701 LLC had pledged to immediately upgrade the facade, replacing windows and "bringing the building up to a better aesthetic standard than it is today," according to James W. Cornell, a partner in Seneca Larkin 701 LLC. However, this group installed windows that are plain square dark brown aluminum clad fit into the former arched opening. The exterior treatment has been completed and is now covered with a whitish stucco exterior plaster that looks absolutely horrible. This renovation is not in line with any historic aesthetic restoration. Why should federal tax credits and historic preservation tax credits be used to provide this group with funding to ruin a historic building with a fake exterior? Every building in that area is brick and concrete. I can't believe that this restoration treatment was approved to proceed using NPS guidelines. The last link to the Larkin complex is not the great white buffalo.

[ Reply ]

Score: -21 ( 29 votes )

Mike Puma

February 5, 2013 12:15 PM

They did not pursue historic tax credits for 701 Seneca Street. The timeline for the review process did not agree with their construction schedule so they opted not to enroll in the program. As far as the exterior goes, when the stucco was added in the 1950s and not maintained in the following decades it damaged the masonry of the building which would have been beyond expensive to repair in-kind. Repointing the entire building including the replacement of masonry units would have been ridiculously cost prohibitive as anchoring points on the facade where on average 2 inches in diameter and all over the place.

The plans to rehabilitate the Power House are currently in the works and portions of the building are still occupied

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 10 ( 12 votes )

nick

February 5, 2013 12:22 PM

They sacrificed the HTC based on a 60 day review or because they wanted to put in crappy windows?

[ Reply ]

replied to Mike Puma

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 1:08 PM

Mike, thanks for the update on the tax credits. Regardless of what the "yes" people here think, the exterior facade restoration was a hopeful conclusion by many in this district. True preservationists would never apply such a treatment to a historic building with Frank Lloyd Wright connections and would be content with an extended restoration. This building looks no different than a strip plaza only with six more floors. The color is horrible and attracts dirt and grime quite easily.

I can only assume that the owner has numerous documentation and photos to support the two inch hole theory and brick degradation from being covered by the stucco. Then one has to wonder why would they pass up on millions of dollars in tax credits that every developer is fighting to receive.

[ Reply ]

replied to Mike Puma

Score: -7 ( 13 votes )

paulsobo

February 5, 2013 7:15 PM

What you say is true? However, there must be some way to remedy this so that the true brick exterior could be restored.

Why not do alittle every year? As an owner, create a restoration fund.

[ Reply ]

replied to Mike Puma

Score: -6 ( 8 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 8:43 PM

Or, why not just knock it down so we can rebuild it! Of course it can be restored, but it's not worth the money it would cost, hence the term Cost PROHIBITIVE. Why are you and OFW having such a difficult time with this? I can't believe I'm almost using psychopath WAREHOUSEDWELLER's pitch and about to say "it's not your building, get over it". But I won't say that. Because he's a psycho.

[ Reply ]

replied to paulsobo

Score: 3 ( 5 votes )

armyof100clowns

February 5, 2013 12:29 PM

It was my understanding that a historically sensitive restoration of the exterior was initially proposed, but once detailed inspection started it was discovered that the stucco cladding was mechanically adhered in a way that compromised the integrity of the brick underneath. This made a true “historical” rehab financially untenable.

From Buffalo Rising November 22, 2010:

“701 will be restored to the appearance it was in the 1950s/1960s with a full stucco façade. The main reason for this is due to the associated costs of the stucco removal and the resulting damage to the bricks beneath. When the stucco is removed it leaves multiple two inch holes in the brick and would damage the brick to the point of not being restorable.”

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 14 ( 14 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 12:42 PM

It almost sounds like the Commercial Slip evaluation. "We can't rebuild these walls because they will explode" Mechanically adhered? How do you mechanically adhere stucco?

I'm no engineer, but from my observations on site I did not see this from the ground. Prior to the exterior work, I went over there and actually pulled pieces of stucco off the building with my hands only. That scratch coat was only an 1/8 inch thick at best and it was peeling off. It was a troweled on mix. I kept some too.

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: -11 ( 19 votes )

armyof100clowns

February 5, 2013 1:30 PM

Although stucco can be applied directly to brick, for the most part, it is not simply slathered on – if done properly, it requires quite a bit of preparation to the surface receiving the application. This includes the mechanical attachment – nails or screws of furring strips to the surface – mesh is then mechanically attached to the furring strips, once again, with screws or nails. In some more modern applications the mesh layer is designed as “self furring” and includes nail-like barbs that are used to penetrate the surface receiving the stucco. There are also types of mesh now available that can be applied with an adhesive; however, this is typically done only on wood surfaces.

Alternatively, when one decides to cover brick with stucco a chemical bonding agent needs to be applied to the brick before the scratch coat can be applied. If this step is not done thoroughly, or if the agent is not allowed to cure/dry properly, the stucco will not stick for very long, or may become dislodged as the porous brick “breathes” with the fluctuation in temperature and humidity. This process also divorces the stucco from the brick.

So – going back to square one – initially, when the restoration was first proposed for 701 it was assumed, on cursory observations, the stucco was simply put over the brick using the cheaper chemical bond method; however, as the detailed evaluation was conducted it was discovered that most of the work, which apparently had been done piecemeal over time, was done using the mechanical method of lath to furring to brick connection, thus compromising the integrity of most of the brick.

Now, I was not involved with any of this and all of the information I received was through secondary or tertiary sources; however, they all seemed like credible explanations as to why one could no longer defend, from an economical standpoint, going for a full on restoration.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 7 ( 7 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 2:03 PM

Thank you for that explanation, that is how civil conversations and debates take place. Unlike some others who are intent on pursuing their agenda of hate and menial criticism.

My entire point was that this exterior restoration was in conflict with EVERYTHING being restored in the Larkin District. This building was one of the focal points of the parcels. With the information provided today I now believe that the owner did not seek any tax credits because they were unwilling to restore this building to its original condition as required by NPS guidelines.

I don't buy the construction timeline excuse at all. I did not see any lath in my observations, and with your explanations on bonding, I believe it was a chemical bond. Until I see documentation and photos, such as a historic structure report, I cannot subscribe to that theory.

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: -9 ( 15 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 2:08 PM

Are you out of your mind, guy? You want to talk civil discourse, take a look at how you belittled Dennis Maher and the passion he put into something.

Like Brownteeth, I ask: what have you contributed?

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 8 ( 10 votes )

brownteeth

February 5, 2013 2:34 PM

"How do you mechanically adhere stucco?" If you don't know how stucco is applied and what happens when you try to remove a mechanically fastened substrate from a masonry product than you really have no business criticizing the results.

If you want to know what "exploding" means, I suggest you go to Home Depot, buy a .22 cal ramset nail gun, fire a few nails into your concrete driveway, brick wall, etc. Then try to pull them out. It will "explode" which means when you pull it out it creates a crater around the nail (mechanical fastener). Imagine how many of those "mechanical fasteners" were used to attach the mesh under the stucco. When you pull each of those out it creates small 2"-3" craters around each one, hence the "explosion".

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 9 ( 11 votes )

Tim

February 5, 2013 3:46 PM

This is one of those cases where less is more. They probably spent a lot of money back then 'updating' an exterior that would have been more timeless and classy had they done nothing at all by leaving the brick exposed. Unless there was a functional reason this alteration was done.

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: 3 ( 3 votes )

armyof100clowns

February 5, 2013 5:40 PM

No disagreement from me on this one - stucco in itself is not evil and has been used by various cultures for millennia; however, it was oft used much like dryvit is today when a less maintenance intensive exterior was desired.

Brick, despite its density, is porous and susceptible to damage over time – this is even truer in regards to the pointing. Instead of investing in the time and expense of re-pointing and replacing damaged brick (which can be delayed substantially when moisture is properly mitigated), many opted to just cover it up with stucco.

Look at some of the shingle style homes that have been desecrated with stucco because previous stewards found the shingles too difficult to maintain . . .

[ Reply ]

replied to Tim

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

Tim

February 5, 2013 6:01 PM

Thanks for the useful info amongst the flaming forum bombs. Lol.

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 9:03 PM

Just like the shingle style home you describe as being desecrated with stucco, so is the exterior of this building. I drove by again today for another look. It is so sad that this horrible looking abomination could have been avoided especially if the owners utilized the historic tax credits that were sitting there waiting for them, and properly restored the exterior to mirror every building in the district. An old wrong could have been righted.

Furthermore, after speaking with a construction manager tonight, and sharing my findings it is also his opinion that the stucco was applied without any mesh or lath strips. As the stucco was separating from the brick you would see the mesh that would still be attached to the brick wall. In all locations that I observed where the stucco was detaching from the wall, there was no mesh or lath present.

That being the case, along with a stated construction deadline that did not allow time to apply for millions of dollars in tax credits, (one that I find to be highly dubious) leaves the only conclusion that this "upgrade" not restoration, was completed because the developer was unwilling to proceed in a proper restoration. There is no question that restoring the brick facade would have incurred additional costs and time. But those costs would have been offset by the tax credits and positive national publicity. So they choose the path of least resistance and cost.

Once again without a historic structures report which would include a complete documentation of the structure, its physical condition with photos, and recommended paths of restoration we can really only speculate. Until proven wrong, I trust my analysis and observations.

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: -6 ( 8 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 10:08 PM

"especially if the owners utilized the historic tax credits that were sitting there waiting for them"

Of course neither of us know the whole story but, to play Devil's Advocate, what if they took a comprehensive assessment of their options - which I would figure any non-slumlord, property owner would do - and determined restoring it would not be possible, even with the tax credits? It may have simply been not made any financial sense, or even within their means to do. Owning a giant property like that doesn't mean they have bottomless pockets.

I know you love painted brick, and I'd love to return my house to its 1878 glory; but getting that off the exterior of my home would be impossible financially. Maybe that's the same thing they ran into.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 10:41 PM

Since you replied cordially I will reciprocate with pleasure.

In my opening statement I pointed out that the investment group Seneca Larkin 701 LLC publicly announced in 2010 that they were investing up to $50 MILLION in this building and the Larkin Power House. That is an investment that speaks of deep pockets. Mind you this building was at the time highly occupied and not an empty shell. With all the Zemsky and associates investment in complete historic restoration to EVERYTHING commercial in the area, and continuing investment as we speak, the hope was that this group would capitalize on the momentum and restore the exterior of one of the most recognizable structures with direct ties to the demolished Larkin Administration Building in the Larkin District. They also stated their intention to apply for historic tax credits.

Nothing is impossible. Difficult, but not impossible. We are talking about a facade here.

BTW, I despise painted brick. I have no love for it at all.

[ Reply ]

replied to LouisTully

Score: -2 ( 4 votes )

LouisTully

February 6, 2013 12:43 AM

Hey, guy. I only bring the guns when necessary. For instance, you throw comments about me like "agenda of hate and menial criticism" I'm comin' back with a SABOT in the tube. Not to wear out an avenue here, but reference agenda of hate and menial criticism on the Fargo House thread.

I'm a complete supporter of productive discourse - or at least, good humor as certain personalities here are good for - but as others have demonstrated, many of your comments don't follow that course.

Mr. Dennis Maher deserves an apology. I don't know the guy, but it would be nice. And your BFF paulsobo should apologize to that artist with the skeletons on the motorcycle. You know, for hate and menial criticism reasons.

As for the building being discussed, you have such an affinity for thorough research, you should reach out to the property owners. That would settle much.

One additional piece of advice:
"BTW, I despise painted brick. I have no love for it at all."

Get some stronger specs... so you can identify the sarcasm.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

Old First Ward

February 6, 2013 4:18 PM

I view issues of preservation and restoration as serious topics. It is just my style and I make no apologies for it.
There are plenty of fluff headlines on this site to bring out some humor. I respect honest opinions, even yours. But I take issue with personal gripes and insults. If you want to bring out your guns then I'll fly in my drones.

But let me say that I have no problem with any argumentative conversation be it heated and or elevated. So long as it pertains to the issues discussed. I try to build my opinion with facts about the issue, and in lieu of hard facts, my own instinctive reasoning. You will know where I stand immediately. However, if proven or convinced otherwise of a better way, I can be swayed in that direction.

Let me also say this, just because the money spenders say something is does not mean that it is scripture. People lie and stretch the truth all the time. Especially in business, politics, and development. The story behind this project that I have been following for sometime now, has a lot of elasticity to it. IMO.

Lastly on the Fargo house thing, your being a little condescending suggesting an apology for a critical opinion. I'm quite sure he has given bad grades and trashed architecture throughout his career. If he wants to be in the public eye and display his hobbies, then be prepared for people who do not share his enthusiasm. This is an open forum and I presented a clean honest opinion. It is hoarders junk.

[ Reply ]

replied to LouisTully

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

armyof100clowns

February 6, 2013 1:32 PM

OFW - as stated in my response to Tim – no argument here. This stucco job by a previous steward was not done well or as an improvement to the property; it was more than likely done to avoid paying for re-pointing and brink replacement on the building(s). This would fall in line with the same type of stewardship that would allow for water to have its way with the building in the first place, but I digress.
I too would have preferred a restoration of the building(s) to its former self since even simple masonry of that bygone era has a certain finesse lacking in most modern work. I will add, though, I am pleased that at least something was done and it is no longer a grey crumbling mess.

You make a very sound and reasonable point at the end of your post – without having been involved in the evaluation process or privy to any sort of report, we can only speculate the reasons why this path was chosen over a full rehab. Although I am defined as a cynic by most of my associates and I tend to be very dubious of most folks, in this case I will assume the best and bet on better angels, accepting what I heard was true (since, unlike you, I did not have the opportunity to look at the stucco before rehab) and that it was deemed too costly on such a large structure to go for a complete rehab.

It’s a crying shame that the stucco was added in the first place, but, it may have also been the one thing that preserved the building over the years when this neighborhood was deemed obsolete and the hope of any responsible care was slim to none. Until it was really compromised, the stucco, more than likely, kept the water out of the overall structure, mothballing by de facto . . .

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 3 ( 3 votes )

Old First Ward

February 6, 2013 4:33 PM

AO100C, A well written and thoughtful response. A lot of projects on existing structures post online a historic structures report. Those reports contain everything necessary to proceed with a recommended path of development. Especially when seeking tax credits (which this project did not). To me that is the red flag that raises a lot of questions. I can't think of any large project that would not take advantage of tax credits worth millions of dollars. Really everyone just stop and think about that. Why???

[ Reply ]

replied to armyof100clowns

Score: 2 ( 2 votes )

brownteeth

February 5, 2013 12:44 PM

Man you have nothing positive to offer here ever. The building looks a million times better than before. Not every building needs to be restored to its original design. Looks good to me and most people driving by, and now its sucking business back into the city core. What have you contributed?

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 9 ( 17 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 12:47 PM

More than you will ever know.

[ Reply ]

replied to brownteeth

Score: -12 ( 22 votes )

brownteeth

February 5, 2013 2:14 PM

"True preservationists would never..." Probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're the type of "preservationist" that give all other preservationists a bad reputation in WNY. By your logic should we fill the building with asbestos and chemical pollution to maintain the original feel? Or should they remove the stucco, clean the brick and then blow coal smog all over it for effect?

My other favorite comment "I'm no engineer..", so what gives you the credentials to say that the actual trained engineer that thoroughly analyzed the building is wrong? What incentive was there for the owner to repair the stucco vs restore the brick if their original desire was to restore the brick?

We are not a region with endless deep pockets with businesses clamoring to move here. If you would have asked anyone 5-10 years ago if they'd ever think this building would see any renovations let alone this would you have thought so?

Maybe blame the past owner for applying the stucco and ruining the brick but it's just plain ignorant to blame these owners who are spending and doing more to revitalize "your" neighborhood than you are.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 9 ( 13 votes )

Up and coming

February 5, 2013 2:23 PM

Great point.

"We are not a region with endless deep pockets with businesses clamoring to move here. If you would have asked anyone 5-10 years ago if they'd ever think this building would see any renovations let alone this would you have thought so?"

[ Reply ]

replied to brownteeth

Score: 5 ( 9 votes )

brownteeth

February 5, 2013 2:55 PM

Feel free to enlighten us.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 2 ( 2 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 12:58 PM

"Ah, wouldn't be a [insert day of week] without your usual uninformed, misguided, condescending, misspelled banter."

But NBD, name droppin' Tim T.

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 4 ( 8 votes )

Old First Ward

February 5, 2013 1:12 PM

It didn't take long for the one liner troll to chime in. What did you run of down votes to click.

[ Reply ]

replied to LouisTully

Score: -10 ( 16 votes )

LouisTully

February 5, 2013 1:21 PM

Yeah, here comes the troll. I got a couple more lines for you. Like your response to MPuma. You ready? Here it is: are you serious? Did you even read his response? Key words: construction schedule and cost prohibitive. True preservationists, eh? Yeah, well, good luck finding many of those 50 years ago. If this was my building I'd tell you to stay the F away and direct you to a building located at Elmwood and Forest.

But your comments are quite comical and a great way to break up the day, keep 'em coming! Even better, team up with paulsobo and you two could put together some REALLY good knee-slappers!

[ Reply ]

replied to Old First Ward

Score: 3 ( 7 votes )

https://me.yahoo.com/a/wGbjxR0SsY0KIiIR4rjYz7wotMIA#a8e35

February 5, 2013 12:10 PM

I already adore Larkin Square:

http://www.ichoosebuffalo.com/2013/01/30/larkin-square/

The Larkin Development Group just keeps getting better and better! I'm glad they've been so successful convincing companies to move back into the city. That's pretty awesome. :)

[ Reply ]

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

SecedefromNYS

February 5, 2013 12:21 PM

just skimmed this.... Great for downtown, but no growth.... just shifting businesses and workers in the region. Hence declining population and stagnant job growth. But great for the building

[ Reply ]

Score: 0 ( 8 votes )

STEEL

February 5, 2013 1:26 PM

At least they are shifting in the right direction for a change

[ Reply ]

replied to SecedefromNYS

Score: 20 ( 22 votes )

Up and coming

February 5, 2013 1:52 PM

Building a strong economy is the same as building a strong army. You need to start with a strong central core and build out from there. This project is great and I hope they keep up the momentum. Any news on what % this place is occupied?

[ Reply ]

replied to STEEL

Score: 4 ( 6 votes )

No_Illusions

February 5, 2013 6:23 PM

That's a stupid analogy, since successful armies have used other tactics, and modern tactics calls for many scattered specialized units, but I understand what you are saying and agree with the sentiment.

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: -2 ( 2 votes )

Rand503

February 5, 2013 3:08 PM

Not necessarily. Yes, in the short run, it's just shifting the chairs around. However, density causes a "magnet" effect. The more this happens, the more we have higher density, and that breeds more economic activity.

IOW, in the suburbs, there tends to be a small number of workers in any one building, requiring a car drive to do anything on your lunch break or other errands. That clogs up streets to a point where more businesses can't be pursued. So they spread out even more. And that means people in cars are less likely to shop or do other errands.

But in Larkin situation, you can have many more people, hundreds, working within walking distance. That creates incentives for restaurants and drugstores and laundry and so on to open up to cater to the those people. They can actually go out and do more activity. And the number of businesses this infrastructure can handle is almost limitless because dependency on the car is so greatly reduced.

Larkinville is on its way to create a city within a city. Hopefully, that will grow outwards even more, and becoming even more of a magnet.

[ Reply ]

replied to SecedefromNYS

Score: 9 ( 9 votes )

5to81ALLDAY

February 5, 2013 1:32 PM

Looks great. how big are these tenants square footage-wise
? Also what % of the building is occupied vs Vacant?

A lot of my clients in Real Estate are lookng for that "creative" feel of open ceilings with exposed duct work, hard wood floors and that loft-like feel. Looks like they hit the nail on the head here

[ Reply ]

Score: 4 ( 4 votes )

Chris

February 5, 2013 8:26 PM

Another step in the right direction! What an exciting district hopefully one day it will be so large it connects wit downtown.

Just because a company moves doesn't mean it is shuffling chairs. Expansion is a main reason for moving. Even if the numbers are not large the amount a CPA makes vs a hotel worker could be easily 3 to 1. Just sayin.

[ Reply ]

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

Rand503

February 5, 2013 10:42 PM

Hopefully, immigration reform will allow even more immigrants in to the US, and that will benefit Buffalo. I would love to see the city flooded with tens of thousands of new immigrants. They work hard and will fill in a lot of the empty space we have. Just the presence of say, 50,000 new residents, will require more markets, boutiques, housing and so on.

[ Reply ]

replied to Chris

Score: 2 ( 2 votes )

No_Illusions

February 6, 2013 7:45 AM

Yeah but how do we attract them to Buffalo in the first place? How do we compete against the South and Southwest where most of these immigrants reside? They are not going to just get up and move if there are no jobs in the first place. This isn't the 1900s when Buffalo's factories were booming hiring every man women and children at slave labor prices.

The only thing Buffalo might benefit from this is being in close proximity to Canada.

[ Reply ]

replied to Rand503

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

Rand503

February 6, 2013 12:05 PM

One thing -- it's much cheaper to live in Buffalo than boom town in the south west and south.

As for the what else will attract them: good public schools, because they are free.

But what really drives immigration, I believe, is a network. Just like 100 years ago, you went to a city because your cousin is already there. If there is a support network, they will help you immediately find living quarters, reconnect you with friends and family, however, distant, speak your language, and offer traditional foods. Then they go to task to find you work.

Work can be anything -- and usually it it NOT getting a job at Burger King. It might be that your cousin has an auto repair shop, so he hires you to do odd jobs. He probably pays you under the table, and you have to share a house with ten other people, but it's a start.

If you have a real skill, like carpentry, plumbing or whatever, then your people will find you a job.

I don't quite know how you get that network jumpstarted, but we already have many new immigrants in Buffalo. Perhaps that's a start.

[ Reply ]

replied to No_Illusions

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

No_Illusions

February 6, 2013 5:42 PM

You're being ridiculously optimistic.

Buffalo is cheap, but so are a number of cities in the Midwest and South. How do we compete against them.

I agree about the network thing. The immigrant population in Buffalo pales in comparison of the cities out west, where within decades Hispanics have exploded in numbers. Why would they move to Buffalo when their family is in LA or even cities like NYC?

Buffalo does have a good size immigrant community and with immigration reform I could see this growing. 10,000 new people would not be out of the question for sure. But still that is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of illegals who will be eligible for citizen ship.

In short they will move to where their family is located, and for the vast majority of them that is not in Buffalo. The reason immigrants first settled in Buffalo was yes for family, but also because of the jobs spurned on by industrial growth and Buffalo being a major trade corridor.

You can attract quite a few that do have families here, but how do you attract more than that?

What I am getting is maybe Buffalo should have a plan. But any plan will probably include job creation, and that is really the only thing Buffalo needs to attract people immigrants or not.

And you're acting like every immigrant is some genius entrepreneur. And while it is true that immigrants tend to be harder working and more ingenuitive (immigrating is not an easy thing or for the faint of heart), it does not guarantee results by itself. As I said this isn't the 1900s.

[ Reply ]

replied to Rand503

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

Rand503

February 6, 2013 8:56 PM

a) I never said that millions of immigrants will come to Buffalo. I merely said that we can do things to capitalize upon our assets.

b) Not sure why a simple statement that we can and should attract immigrants is "wildly optimistic" but I prefer to try new things instead of bitching all the time about how things currently suck and will never change.

c) I said that if we had 50,000 immigrants that would do wonders for the city. Whether we can get that, I have no idea -- I was just making a point. A point that you apparently agree with because you understand that other cities have many more than that.

d) Why would people move to Buffalo when they could move to LA or NYC? I don't know. Why don't you ask the immigrants who live on near Grant St., or Best St? Perhaps they are too stupid and you could enlighten them.

e) Some immigrants in the 19th century moved out west where there was no industry and no jobs whatsoever. But they hoped to purchase land to become a farmer. Many failed at that. Nonetheless they tried it and it did happen. So a thriving local economy, while indusive to immigration, is not dispositive.

f) I never claimed that every immigrant is a baby Bill Gates. They never have all been that way. But many are nonetheless entrepreneurial enough to start a restaurant or a boutique or some other small business. That act alone provides more economic activity that merely obtaining a job at HSBC because it creates something new that wasn't there before.

g) I personally know of two immigrant brothers from Iran who moved to a suburb of Buffalo and had with them nothing. They worked as janitors for a small factory. After about ten years, they had worked themselves up the ladder and saved enough money to buy the factory from the owners, and they are now worth millions.

Apparently, they didn't get your memo.

[ Reply ]

replied to No_Illusions

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

pampiniform

February 5, 2013 11:16 PM

I like the progress they've been making. It's good to see businesses moving into that area. I wonder if this will eventually have an actual effect on the surrounding area. As impressive as the progress there might be, there really isn't much of any reason to go there unless you work there.
The streetscape might be nicer than it used to be, but there really isn't anything to do outside of business hours in the Larkin District. There aren't any shops or bars there. Even during the business day, there isn't more than a place or two you could walk to get food. At the end of the day, most of the people who work there go to their cars in the sea of parking surrounding these buildings and drive to wherever they live. Other than the fact it is close to downtown, I am not sure what makes this all that much better than what exists out in the suburbs. The neighborhoods around here are still inching toward socioeconomic economic decline. You can find boarded up houses within a block or two of this place.
I hate to point out the elephant in the room, but I am not sure I am as convinced that moving local companies from one place to another is doing all that much for the local economy.

[ Reply ]

Score: 2 ( 4 votes )

Rand503

February 6, 2013 12:12 PM

Give it time.

Rest assured, everyone knows exactly what you are talking about. After every one tires of the same few eateries, someone will open a mid priced restaurant across the street. If that is a success, more will follow. Then they will be open after work -- afterall, not everyone quite work exatly at 5pm every day. Some people have to stay late, and they need to eat.

Eventually, someone in the office daydreams -- they are getting tired of driving half an hour from Amherst, all that traffic, just to live in an expensive house that they don't particularly like anymore. On lunch, they walk around the neighborhood and size it up. And then they read about how the West Side is rehabbing, and people are moving in and making money from rehabs. Ideas start to flow.

Eventually development will start to spill around the place. The best thing the city can do? First, don't stand in the way ( a difficult task for our pols and bureaucrats) and have good schools. The key to attracting families is to have a good school for the kids. Another is a crime rate that is livable. it doens't have to promise Clarence safety, but at least have people think that they are safe in their homes.

With those two main problems taken care of, development will boom.

[ Reply ]

replied to pampiniform

Score: 3 ( 3 votes )

RaChaCha

February 5, 2013 11:30 PM

My last tour of this building was in September 2010, along with the author of this article & some Larkin descendants. This building has come a long way in just a couple of years -- delighted to see the progress. I'll be looking forward to the next opportunity to get inside for a look around!

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Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

Up and coming

February 6, 2013 12:39 PM

Me and my GF had sex on the top floor a couple years ago and from about the 4th floor up it was pretty ragged, so its nice to see some investment.

[ Reply ]

replied to RaChaCha

Score: -1 ( 9 votes )

Travelrrr

February 6, 2013 12:54 PM

You never cease to impress, Up.

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replied to Up and coming

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

Up and coming

February 6, 2013 2:12 PM

Hey, a mans gotta live, right?

[ Reply ]

replied to Travelrrr

Score: 0 ( 2 votes )

ScreenPass

February 6, 2013 1:06 PM

[Deleted- Flaming under new screen name at new job]

[ Reply ]

replied to Up and coming

Score: -2 ( 2 votes )

ScreenPass

February 6, 2013 3:45 PM

Technically I just added a new job, so I am still flaming from my old job. You guys should feel so lucky to have such a credentialed poster trolling your site.

[ Reply ]

replied to ScreenPass

Score: -1 ( 3 votes )