Real Estate February 5, 2013 11:20 AM

Family Dollar Planned on Main Street

Family Dollar Planned on Main Street

AutoZone on Main Street near Michigan Avenue may be getting a new neighbor.  DiDonato Associates is seeking City approvals to build a Family Dollar store at 1610-18 Main Street.  You know this won't be pretty.

The 9,100 sq.ft. store is proposed for a site that was cleared of a pesky three-story masonry building in 2010.  The location is just north of Main and Ferry that has seen a healthy dose of rehab, new construction, and investment in recent years. 

1610Main2.JPGThe Buffalo Planning Board will review the proposal next Tuesday.

Family Dollar has over 7,500 locations in 45 states. 

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Bummer.

Score: 4 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Just going to throw this out...

I don't see any issue with a dollar store opening at this location. I do see where people would be upset that a single story structure with a parking lot would go in this location. A mixed use building would be ideal.

Now before people go and bash the developer of the dollar store, consider the fact that while they have no issue in locating stores in mixed use buildings, they are not in the business of building mixed use buildings. So why can't the community focus on building mixed use with residential as the lead and then go after retail outlets to fill the ground floor? Chicken v. Egg.

The challenge I see is people want mixed use development along corridors like Main but seem to put blame on the wrong developer. Why not complain about the suburban style housing that's being build, with public money, all around the city.

Why can't their be pressure for groups like the St John Fruit Belt Community Development Corporation or Belmont Housing to build mixed use structures? Are people scared to call these groups out? I think they are.

Instead of building $60M in townhomes in the fruit belt, why not build $60M in mixed use buildings on the Main St. corridor. You get new housing AND community focused business. It's a win/win.

The only challenge I see is those who live in these types of housing units feel as if they have the right to get a front lawn, driveway and garage.

If you want to say a business who is investing their own money but not doing it the way you want is a bummer.....just what do you say to a housing group who's spending others money in a way that you don't like?

Just curious....

replied to batmankh
Score: 15 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

An area "that has seen a healthy dose of rehab, new construction, and investment in recent years" . . . is getting MORE new construction and investment.

Yeah, what a bummer.

/sarcasm off/

replied to batmankh
Score: 3 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

LOL another BRO classic where a simple Family Dollar-goes-into-Main St. article elicits a deluge of handwringing posts!

I'll have to e-mail the developer and insist on a 'strip of grass' to complement the urban heresy! :D

replied to batmankh
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Based on my experience in communities that are adopting new zoning codes, Buffalo can expect a *lot* more of this in the coming months. Developers will be in a rush to to get their suburban-context projects through while the old zoning code is still in effect.

Score: 7 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I liked the (unrealistic) idea that someone had of declaring a moratorium on development until the Green Code is passed. It would encourage the city to finish up and ratify the code ASAP.

On the other hand, I am told that many developers are starting to study and incorporate the draft Green Code into their designs right now, since they will have to eventually (once the code is passed and the 18 month phase-in period elapses).

replied to Dan
Score: 8 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The Green Code cannot get adopted sooner! What a shame to lose that great building considering the recent investment a few block away at Main & Ferry

Score: 9 ( 17 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Maybe they can stall till the code comes into effect. Buffalo politicians seem good at stalling.

Score: 13 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I wouldn’t have a problem with Dollar General or Family Dollar having a presence on Main Street if I knew they would build something that fit the context of the setting (or what should be the context – urban, “to the curb”, with parking in back); however, the cynic in me knows this will be another flim-flam building more suited for Transit or Sheridan Road.

From my point of view, most businesses are welcome and wanted if they fit the context and needs of the neighborhood they move into – it’s the design of the buildings that concerns me. Rite Aid, Walgreens, NAPA, AutoZone, Target, Walmart – really, I don’t care, as long as their presence adds to the character of the neighborhood. I know these chain type places that are more ubiquitous to the suburbs can and do construct acceptable urban builds when they are held to meeting a certain standard.

I am temporarily residing in the Maryland/DC area (coming home in June) and there are numerous examples of these places being located, and looking like they belong, in urban environments. Why is this? I think it’s not only by dictate of coding in certain areas, but also the wants and demands of the community’s residents. Towson, Georgetown, Bethesda, hell, even parts of Rockville and Gaithersburg are prime examples of what can be done when there are engaged residents and simple, clear, and firmly enforced code on hand.

Score: 12 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

There is already a Family Dollar store at 1384 Main Street (corner of Utica)less than a half a mile away. Thankfully that store was built :to the curb" with parking in back. There is absolutely no need for another Family Dollar so close!

replied to armyof100clowns
Score: 10 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Shame it couldn't go into a vacant building instead.

Score: 12 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

There is already an existing Family Dollar at the corner of Utica and Main-- .4 miles away!

Score: 10 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I thought the same thing. I guess this area needs more dollar stores!

replied to BuffaloGAl290
Score: 1 ( 7 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

You're right, they need some fancy new cafes and galleries, or maybe even a co-op or two. Because god knows that what the residents of this area want/need.

replied to Slu
Score: 5 ( 41 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This comment comes off as classist as best and racist at worst. Well done.

replied to Up and coming
Score: -17 ( 31 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Would you like to explain how they are racist?

replied to Slu
Score: 0 ( 24 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Pardon the pedantry w/r/t the title of this article, but Family Dollar and Dollar General are two different corporations.

I've seen some of the green-code, built-to-the street new Dollar General buildings in Nashville, and they're not horrible at all. Let's just hope this happens.

Score: 11 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

wcperspective was playing the "Before and After" round of Wheel of Fortune when he worte this . . .

replied to flyingnuns
Score: 1 ( 1 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Yikes- my bad! It's Family Dollar.

replied to flyingnuns
Score: 5 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

aka "family squalor," a joke i stole from a friend.

now don't jump all over me, everyone. i shop at them and you do too. you just don't like to admit it.

replied to WCPerspective
Score: 4 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

"and you do too"

lol - even the people whose comments attack Family Dollar so harshly and say they shouldn't be allowed to have more stores in Buffalo?

What I don't get is how since a big majority of products sold at Family Dollar are literally identical to products sold at say Tops and at similar prices - only in smaller stores compared to Tops and with smaller parking lots compared to Tops…
… how is it that Family Dollar is so much more openly hated on than Tops, more associated with squalor than Tops, etc - even by people who usually say Tops stores have too many square feet and parking lots that are too big, and some of the same people who criticize corner deli stores which Family Dollar stores no doubt help reduce, and some people who complain some urban neighborhoods don't have enough shopping alternatives...

Seems like so many contradictions, doesn't it?

What am I missing?

replied to grad94
Score: 7 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

well, regardless of the class connotations of their merchandise, count me as one who thinks that their automobile-based site plans are not appropriate in the city.

grant-ferry also has one of each (family dollar, dollar general) within yards of each other. we used to have gas stations on every corner, which morphed to drugstores on every corner, now morphing into dollar stores on every corner.

replied to whatever
Score: 2 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

grad - I can at least logically understand complaints about 'automobile-based site plans' (& those can be decided in zoning codes), but that wasn't at all what my comment was about.

I was referring to what looks to me as hateful spite from a few others (not you) on here against Family Dollar or Dollar General for their mere existence or presence in Buffalo.

travelrrr>"Nothing says world-class like a Dollar Store on Main Street."
Repat>"Yeah... that's what the city needs... another Family Dollar."
steel>"these kinds of stores actually make people poorer"

I'm still curious if anyone who agrees with any of those can say exactly why Family Dollar - most of whose products are literally exactly the same as Tops sells, and at similar prices as Tops (and much less than corner deli prices for milk, bread, etc), and in smaller stores than Tops, and with smaller parking lots - is such a bad thing to be here?

replied to grad94
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Hopefully it's build "correctly" as opposed AutoZone next to it. Correctly, meaning up to the sidewalk, and parking behind the building.

Score: 4 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Nothing says world-class like a Dollar Store on Main Street.

"Buffalo: built by kings, inherited by the small."

Score: 2 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The original ( and very charming) historic buildings on this site were torn down during Metro Rail construction to mak a place to park trucks and store some boxes

Score: -2 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Do you have any proof of that?

replied to STEEL
Score: 4 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

No other than it is true. Do you need to see my birth certificate too?

replied to Up and coming
Score: -2 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

So you made a factual claim with no way of backing it up....typical.

replied to STEEL
Score: 7 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

> Do you have any proof of that?

Proof of my Buffalo geekery: I held on to the monthly newsletters the NFTA published during Metro Rail planning construction. I'll have a look back and see what's in there. It's not uncommon for sites to be cleared as construction equipment storage and staging areas, though. Main Street in the l970s and early 1980s was in rough shape, but there wasn't the abundance of vacant lots one sees in the area now.

From what I know, it was the site of the (alleged) Mafia hit on John Cammilleri during Metro Rail construction.

replied to Up and coming
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Perhaps the buildings on the Auto Zone site, and to the right of the spot that looks like it had a building torn down recently were removed during Metro Rail construction. The building that was on the site directly to the right of AZ's parking lot was torn down a couple years ago. While the main article mentions that, it does not mention that it had been gutted by a fire, and large portions of the rear of the building were collapsing. Could it have been saved? Partially, sure. How realistic that is is up to the individual I suppose considering the suburban sprawl style of construction to the left of it and the empty lots to the right.

replied to STEEL
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WCP - is this the site just next to AutoZone, or does it go all the way to the corner?

Score: 0 ( 0 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

All the way to the corner of W. Balcom St.

replied to 300miles
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ok thanks. that's a lotta land... I hope it's not going to all be parking. Doesn't propose 'Green Code' emphasize that corner lots should never be parking?

replied to WCPerspective
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Why is there even a post...its a dollar store is a crappy part of town...Not everything needs to be news....I guess in this city anything that happens is news

Score: -8 ( 24 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The point is that it doesn't need to be a crappy part of town if they would stop treating it like a crappy part of town.

replied to elmdog
Score: 15 ( 19 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The point is that it doesn't need to be a crappy part of town. If the people who live there wouldn't treat it like a crappy part of town it wouldn't be.

replied to 300miles
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Your finger-wagging reminds me of the things Newt Gingrich said during the GOP debates. They sound like things a person would say if they had absolutely no responsibility to be right or constructive.

replied to Up and coming
Score: -3 ( 19 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Take a look at a map of this section of Main st. Who lives there and how exactly are they treating it?

replied to Up and coming
Score: 6 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

People and like {deleted}.

replied to townline
Score: -4 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

There's almost no residential on that part of Main St. If you want to throw mindless blame around - take aim at the businesses that are there and how the city handled them.

replied to Up and coming
Score: 8 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

.............that may be true, but there's plenty of residential to the East and to the West.

replied to 300miles
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As if the north/west side of this block of Main Street doesn't suck badly enough already.

Score: 1 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Lower-income local residents, many who lack cars, will be very grateful to have this amenity close-by. The rest of us should close our eyes and be thankful we don't have to stretch every dollar as far as possible.

Score: 12 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Meh. No problem here with a dollar store as a retailer. But maybe if they're serving a population that lacks mobility and retail options, they should actually design and locate their store so that it is easily accessible without a car, for those populations. Instead, they are plopping what will likely be a set back concrete block bunker, behind 30 parking spots (30!!!), in a location totally lacking in residential density and more than .5 miles in either direction to a subway stop or any east-west bus lines.

Just because they offer shit for cheap does not mean they are doing anything so charitable for an underserved, immobile population.

replied to ex-716
Score: 9 ( 17 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Wait, you know it'll be setback, 30 parking spot style development? Before the site plan is out? That's amazing!

replied to townline
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The Irony is that these kinds of stores actually make people poorer.

replied to ex-716
Score: -12 ( 24 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

What a clueless unsupported claim -
steel>"these kinds of stores actually make people poorer"

Among many basic products, Family Dollar sells daily needs such as milk, orange juice, eggs, bread, cereal, paper towels, cleaning products, diapers, etc., etc. and others at prices similar to that of bigbox Tops stores - and much more affordably (not to mention more safely) than corner deli type stores.

question - do any of the snobby comments above by steel, travelrrr, BuffaloGAl290, laldm, etc. indicate any of you would prefer that corner deli type stores in much of Buffalo remain without increased competition/alternatives provided by Family Dollar and Dollar General?

replied to STEEL
Score: 6 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

You don't read much do you?

replied to whatever
Score: -2 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

You don't get out much do you?

replied to STEEL
Score: 1 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

You sound like Paul krugman. Not a good look.

replied to STEEL
Score: 1 ( 7 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

steel>"You don't read much do you?"

A lot actually, but nope I've never read anything that explains why Family Dollar (or Dollar General) "actually makes people poorer" by selling milk, eggs, juice, bread, etc at the same prices as do Tops, etc. but in smaller stores than Tops and at more urban locations.

And on front of their weekly ad…
http://www.familydollar.com/pages/hotitems.aspx
Clorox cleaner $1.75, Folgers coffee $8, Buffalo-made Cheerio's $2.50, Glad trash bags $3.50, Ajax for dishes $0.88, paper towels $4.50 for 6, ...

How is offering those kinds of things for sale - along with bread, milk, diapers, etc - "making people poorer" as you claimed?
How would the people be less poor if they paid much higher prices for those same items at a corner deli, or if to get the same prices as at Family Dollar (or Dollar General) they had to travel farther to a Tops, etc for them?

How so?

replied to STEEL
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Actually Wegman's & Whole Foods makes the average consumer poorer than Family Dollar in terms of average margin per dollar.

replied to whatever
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Low-income residents are as deserving of a vibrant, quality urban environment as those who are better off.

replied to ex-716
Score: -1 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

If you can't take care of it, you don't deserve it. Also, nobody "deserves" anything.

replied to Dan
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Dan - that vibrant-quality argument looks like it's only about zoning rules - not the store itself which it looks like ex-716 focused on.
Two very different topics debated in this thread.

Each Family Dollar or Dollar General likely reduces the 'groc'-signed stores you used to criticize so much on here.

replied to Dan
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Another cheesy, ubiquitous dollar store. Big deal.

Score: -2 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This will be the 25th Family Dollar within the Buffalo city limits. That's almost one per 10,000 people. At 9,100 square feet per store, we're getting close to 1 square foot of Family Dollar per person that lives in Buffalo...Seems a bit much.

Score: 10 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

You can say the same thing about Tim Hortons. There's over 100 in the Buffalo metro, and several new locations continue to open every month. At this point, Tim's is more prevalent in Buffalo than in many Canadian cities.

replied to laldm
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True. A nice thing about nations like America is that snobby haters of any businesses like Family Dollar or Tim Hortons can't cause a limiting of their # of locations.
Doesn't matter if their prices are too low for some people's preference, or if they aren't 'local' enough for some, or aren't small enough corporately, or how many locations they have. City govts can't say no based on any of that.

Businesses are free to open as many as they want as long as they obey the same laws & zoning as everyone has to.
All that can be done by laldm, trav, repat, etc about them is stuff like complain, keep count, or blog false weird claims like steel did.

replied to Dan
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Not to interrupt your soapbox rant against "snobby haters" but I couldn't help but notice some selectivity in your criticism of snobs. You name a few who made unflattering remarks about discount stores but didn't object to a couple of arguably more snobby remarks by Burch JP-Up and Coming.

Burch-Up> "The point is that it doesn't need to be a crappy part of town. If the people who live there wouldn't treat it like a crappy part of town it wouldn't be."
...
"If you can't take care of it, you don't deserve it. Also, nobody "deserves" anything."
...
"You're right, they need some fancy new cafes and galleries, or maybe even a co-op or two. Because god knows that what the residents of this area want/need."

Is this brand of snobbishness (holier than thou attitude against people and not stores) okay or does Burch-Up simply get a snob police pass for some other reason?

replied to whatever
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spocKettle - a difference is the 'snobbishness' your quoted from burch/Up doesn't look to me to be saying it's bad for any business (or person or group) to exist or add locations in Buffalo. He's just suggesting they could behave differently.

The claim you quoted by burch/Up about irresponsible residents looks similar in concept to charger's comment here at 2/5 6:30 criticizing irresponsible amounts of snow shoveling by one operator of a Family Dollar - saying it's a shame.
Both are criticizing behaviors, not saying anyone shouldn't be in Buffalo.

As you'll notice, I didn't criticize charger at all.

For sure, the City should strongly prosecute any and all businesses who don't obey snow shoveling laws - which likely includes a very wide range of both popular and unpopular businesses.

ket>"Is this brand of snobbishness (holier than thou attitude against people and not stores) okay or does Burch-Up simply get a snob police pass for some other reason?"

I didn't critique any snobbishness by itself, but what looked to me like snobby hatefulness of saying either it's bad for Family Dollar to exist ('makes people poorer' without saying why, when as ScreenPass points out the opposite is true) or that Family Dollar as a company shouldn't have any or more stores here if they want to.

replied to Spock
Score: -1 ( 1 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Whatever> "I didn't critique any snobbishness by itself, but what looked to me like snobby hatefulness of saying either it's bad for Family Dollar to exist"

Fair enough. Though if objectivity is important to you, you may want to focus on the debate over whether discount stores should exist (design-zoning issues aside) and leave snobbery out of it. Calling one group snobs while leaving other snobby remarks alone looks like favoritism. Not to mention some of the unflattering remarks you made about corner delis seem equally snobby as those saying discount stores shouldn't be here.

Though reading some of the comments by those you named, it isn't clear that that was the point they were making either. Maybe you should stick to attacking Steel's discount stores=poorer claim as that seems difficult for anyone to justify or defend.

replied to whatever
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spock>"if objectivity is important to you, you may want to focus on the debate over whether discount stores should exist (design-zoning issues aside)"

They're two separate debate topics - and I clearly distinguished them as such all along. The existential referencing steel's comment, and referencing some others in the topic of whether the stores should be able to grow in Buffalo.

It in no way reduces 'objectivity' to have either of those debates, or both.

spock>"Not to mention some of the unflattering remarks you made about corner delis seem equally snobby as those saying discount stores shouldn't be here."

For one thing, I had already told you I wasn't critiquing 'any snobbishness by itself'.

For another, I never said or implied that corner deli's shouldn't be allowed to continue or even to grow in number in Buffalo if customers choose to shop there. On the other hand, if customers prefer lower prices or anything else about alternatives, that could help reduce the # of businesses the police or Council say are problems while also providing customers more products for their money.
I don't think saying that looks snobby, but if it does to you so be it - either way, it isn't hating on any lawful business by implying any shouldn't be able to compete and let customers choose which succeed or don't.

The unflattering I said about corner deli stores were the prices are typically higher (which isn't even close), and I mentioned the safety factor which our own police dept and Common Council have raised.
For instance… here, for one report among many.

replied to Spock
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Whatever> "For another, I never said or implied that corner deli's shouldn't be allowed to continue or even to grow in number in Buffalo if customers choose to shop there."

But the people you called snobs didn't say or imply this about discount stores either. (Nice try throwing "implied" in there. Your creative interpretation, what you call strawman arguments when others do it, doesn't count.)

Of the comments made by the "snobby haters" you called out (steel, travelrrr, BuffaloGAl290, laldm, repat) none of which say discount stores "shouldn't be allowed to continue or even to grow in number in Buffalo." Those are your words not theirs. They all voice discontent over the amount of discount stores (and make a claim about making people poorer) that is very different than saying they shouldn't exist.

And as far out as Steel's comment was it isn't too far from some of the deli bashing that you ironically have been doing in the name of checking the "snobs." Issues of safety, poor quality seem to be more symptoms of overall neighborhood distress than an inherent flaw in delis.

replied to whatever
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spock>"discontent over the amount of discount stores"

Yes - discontent over the amount of stores which other people in Buffalo evidently want to be able to shop at.
The # of stores is about how many exist, same thing.
I think complaining about the amount (or presence at any location) crosses a line from mere dislike (such as if anyone said they personally didn't want to shop at a store) into snobby hating (saying there's too many stores for other people to choose to shop at).

And that unsupported smear from Steel about 'makes people poorer' was in a category all to itself.
(btw, that doesn't look at all similar to anything about the deli stores, despite you saying it's ironically similar)

Again, I'm fine with seeing as many of all types - deli, Fam Dollar / Dollar Gen, Tops-Dash's-Budwaey-Wegmans-etc. - as anybody wants to open within zoning laws if not having criminal issues causing permit denials.

Customer decisions should be what matters.

Incidentally, people who prefer to see deli stores might be happy that the building next to the Showplace (the one some complained on here about metal overhead door) is opened as one, Aref's Express Deli or something like that, maybe Deli Express, I forgot now...
It doesn't look bad from outside, not to me anyhow.
So with that and the other a few doors around the corner on Military, the # of those for people who prefer to see different options for pricing seems fine around that area.
Choice, competition, & variety are all good.

replied to Spock
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Whatever> "I think complaining about the amount crosses a line from mere dislike into snobby hating"

That is just your opinion and not necessarily the view of those you're attacking. Complaining about stores does not equate calling for them not to exist no matter how hard you try to put words in people's mouths. The snob thing is a red herring since you don't have a problem with others making snobby comments about neighborhood residents or doing some snobby corner deli hating of your own.

It's interesting that you feel free to draw conclusions (convenient to your message) on other people's comments, but bristle sharply when others do it to you and those here aligned with your views.

Speaking of which...

Whatever> "I looked at Up&Coming's comment again which you called 'racist', and it doesn't look necessarily racist at all.

This statement seems deliberately naive considering the demographic profile of the neighborhood around the proposed FD (this, and a detailed map can be found on citydata.com). That and within the context of Burch-Up's comments in the MLK Park splash pad discussion where he made similar remarks directed at a similar neighborhood. At that time he had a pretty lame defense to calls of racism that was similar to I-can't-possibly-be-racist-because-I-have-black-friends.

Given that context, saying that Burch-Up's high and mighty remarks "don't look necessarily racist" sounds like a similar spin job as pretending people who don't like discount stores want them not to exist.

replied to whatever
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Whatever> "The claim you quoted by burch/Up about irresponsible residents looks similar in concept to charger's comment here at 2/5 6:30 criticizing irresponsible amounts of snow shoveling by one operator of a Family Dollar - saying it's a shame.
Both are criticizing behaviors, not saying anyone shouldn't be in Buffalo."

Are you seriously trying to equate Burch's talk radio style high and mighty comments toward the neighborhood around FD with a comment about a store's poor snow removal? One is an expression of racially and socio-economically charged generalizing of an entire neighborhood and the other faults one company for not promptly removing snow. Huge difference.

Again, there is nothing wrong with playing favorites by being extremely creative interpreting Burch's comments vs the discount store haters. Like minded people have a tendency to treat each other better, as I admittedly do here from time to time.

But if the objectivity image is important to you, you ought not make ridiculous spin attempts for your friends like equating veiled classist-racist elitism to complaints of one store's poor snow shoveling.

replied to whatever
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spock>"if the objectivity image is important to you, …"

If the objectivity image is important to you, kettle, you'll note I didn't equate anyone's comments - I said they look 'similar in concept' in that they're about behaviors not anyone's presence in Buffalo.

Your objectivity image suffers when you said I equated it.
'equal' vs 'similar in a way' are quite different.

Your objectivity (if it's important to you, lol) is also is reduced when you raise a consistency issue about who I did/didn't reply to when in the very same thread you've been inconsistent in that way by assuming someone's racism but not taking it up directly to burch/Up after he asked what's racist about his comment.
That question from him looks like a denial of racism.
Then nobody replied to him saying how it was racist - not you or anyone - in the 4 days now since.

It's fine if you didn't respond to him - nobody can be expected to reply to everyone - but then you say it reduces _my_ objectivity for not automatically assuming he had racist intent after you (& everyone) stayed silent for days and days when he asked how so?
You're saying somehow I should've assumed he was racist even while not one of you were willing to respond to him on that serious charge saying how so?
Where's any consistency there?
Or is an objectivity image with consistency not important for you to practice - just to try saying I don't have it?

replied to Spock
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Whatever> "Your objectivity (if it's important to you, lol)"

I couldn't care less if people reading my contributions here think what I say is objective or not. I realize I (as well as all other non-spam bot bro readers) have my own tendencies and leanings that influence my stance on a given issue. Those who masquerade around here with the sense that their viewpoints are superior because they are purely the result of objectivity are, at best naive, and at worst dishonest.

I mentioned objectivity because I know how important you feel the illusion of which is important to delivering your message here. I just wanted to point out some seemingly obvious non-objectivity that you apparently didn't notice as you wrote you comments.

Making 10+ comments, that among which, call people snobs for making dissenting remarks about discount stores while badmouthing corner delis is not objective.

Repeated snob outrage over discount store comments while ignoring other snobby remarks from those usually sympathetic to your views is not objective.

Spiting hairs over my use of the word "equate" while freely strawmanning others' views on discount stores is not objective.

replied to whatever
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I looked at Up&Coming's comment again which you called 'racist', and it doesn't look necessarily racist at all. It's about opinion of an area and discussion of behavior, any of which can be about any race. Just like it wouldn't matter which race a store operator is of who doesn't shovel show as in chal's comment - behavior, not race.
So, nice try with that angle.

spock>"because I know how important you feel ..."

News Flash - You have no way to 'know' what anyone 'feels' except yourself.
(lol at your imagination!)

Speaking of 'how important' - your guessing of how I 'feel' (and offering me advice based on your guess) indicate that I'm very important to you.
I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks!

spock>"Making 10+ comments..."

Looks like 10, which includes reply to steel's insult, and some discussion about the Green Code map.
Meanwhile, if we're counting...
I notice at least 5 comments from you so far in this which mostly contain your 'advice' to and views about me and my thoughts.
Interesting.
Again, thanks or something.

replied to Spock
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I addressed your point on Burch-Up's comments in my earlier comment. The rest of this comment looks like a bizarre, and sort of creepy, attempt to change the subject. If I were you, I wouldn't want to try to defend your comments here either, but I don't have any interest in going off on this tangent.

replied to whatever
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SPOCK, I never knew you were such a fan of mine? Also, when I make a comment saying, "people need to take better care of their neighborhood" I mean everyone. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

replied to Spock
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You've got it all wrong Burch-Up. I'm not a fan of you, anybody, or anything. I am totally logical and objective and am holier than thou and them who resort to such silly subjective things like being fans.

Everything I say is the result of me carefully evaluating all relevant factors without letting my non-existent feelings and biases get in the way. That's why everything I say is totally freakin awesome and those who disagree are emotional, snobby and lame.

I know better.

replied to Up and coming
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self absorption/aggrandizement is not logical nor objective...

replied to Spock
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Thanks buffaloon. I agree 100%

replied to buffloonitick
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umm, I've no idea, but how can you be sure buff's comment was pro-you & anti-me?
It's fine either way, just curious.

replied to Spock
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Lol! Are you keeping score?

replied to whatever
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spock>'If I were you, I wouldn't want to try to defend your comments here either'

Anyone can opine on whether my comments need 'defending' (if they ever do, ok, that's fine), but I've often been very patient in explaining my comments to you, answering your many questions which quite often are toward me on here, etc.

Which comment didn't I 'defend' - or as I'd put it, explained?
You've raised many points... did I overlook any?

(And you're the one who's typing out fake concern about my 'image', offering lame off-topic advice to me about that, then smearing others about supposed racism when race wasn't mentioned and suggesting I should criticize things that weren't even said ...
yet now you claim it's me who's trying to - 'change the subject' - from the article topic?
Seriously? lol)

replied to Spock
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Good job with the strategic deflections whatever. We're now on a tangent about semantics, fake concern for your image, and who really changed the subject.

I've almost forgot about your snob double standard and accompanying strawman argument that we were discussing earlier.

replied to whatever
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Nope, spock, it was you who first brought up 'objectivity image' nonsense and fake concern/advice to me about that. That's plain as day above.

You also launched unfounded racism accusations at Up, then wouldn't even try to defend those charges when called out on it and Up denied twice.

replied to Spock
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Yes whatever, pointing out your pretend objectivity is why I commented in this article in the first place. "Clear as day," agreed. I just think it's funny that you'd rather deflect to other things rather than defend this contradiction. You'd rather defend Burch's dog whistle racism than defend your snob strawman, and that's saying something.

Whatever> "You also launched unfounded racism accusations at Up, then wouldn't even try to defend those charges when called out on it and Up denied twice."

Also "clear as day above" is where I "defended" that claim in response to one of your comments pretending Burch-Up's comment wasn't racist.

Me> "This statement seems deliberately naive considering the demographic profile of the neighborhood around the proposed FD (this, and a detailed map can be found on citydata.com). That and within the context of Burch-Up's comments in the MLK Park splash pad discussion where he made similar remarks directed at a similar neighborhood. At that time he had a pretty lame defense to calls of racism that was similar to I-can't-possibly-be-racist-because-I-have-black-friends"

The fact that I won't engage your attempt to deflect the conversation away from a topic you're uncomfortable with doesn't mean I didn't defend my position as you can see above.

Burch-UP commented here in response to that comment and didn't feel the need to dispute my point so you may be the only one carrying the he's-not-racist flag.

replied to whatever
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I live near on of those 25 Family Dollar stores in Buffalo and I can tell you that it is one of the worst neighbors you could wish for. They have to be badgered to shovel their sidewalk every time it snows. Their parking lot is regularly filled with trash, including their own boxes that they can't manage to get into their dumpster.

Calls and emails to their corporate headquarters are ignored. Their local regional manager is either a liar or is unable to implement the improvements the promises.

What a shame.

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sad that it was demolished and I have to agree with the low income housing not built on high transit streets like Main where they need things like the Light Rail and bus system.

Common sense....once again...not so common

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On another note, I wonder if anyone has ever gotten stuck at the Buffalo Tourist Lodge when they try to lowball Priceline looking for accommodations near midtown... It's happened to me in other cities

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As to whether it will be set back from the sidewalk for a front parking lot - many of you are assuming that, but who knows yet?

Didn't the recent Family Dollar built by Paladino on Niagara St get built to the sidewalk just as you guys like? So it isn't impossible. We'll see.

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The store on Niagara was dictated by the size and depth of the parcel. The public right of way to the rear prevented it from being set back any further. And by moving it to the corner allowed for better parking/in-site circulation, utilizing the the rear alley, than locating the building set back from the corner. Had the building parcel been bigger without the ROW to the rear, I can guarantee that it would have been set back with the lot in front.

Regardless, the facade they put on that building along Pennsylvania is despicable.

replied to whatever
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Well, we can never know either way if your guarantee about the Niagara St store would be true if those factors had been different - so that's a very safe guarantee to make at this point, lol

About this one on Main, it seems premature for you guys to start complaining that it will have front parking lot if that hasn't been decided yet. But if you want to assume it and start complaining as soon as possible, then of course you're all free to continue.
It might turn out eventually that you'll be correct about it.

On a related note, here's a question for any Green Code experts
(...maybe you, or jsmith, or Dan, ...?) -
Even if the Green Code was already enacted as proposed, would it necessarily prevent front parking at 1610-1618 Main St?
In Figures 34 and 44 at this link jsmith pointed out recently....
http://www.buffalogreencode.com/Appx1MappingAnalysis.pdf

Isn't 1610-1618 Main St designated as 'N-3I Urban Interim Use', which on page 5 is defined as 'N-3 Areas which exhibit significant vacant and underutilized for which a range of interim uses are allowed.'?
So if the Green Code will allow a 'range' of uses on that parcel, might that possibly allow the Retail Center use which can have set backs for front parking?

replied to townline
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Noooo, I think we pretty much know, but go ahead and make believe.

And you're looking at GreenCode maps from over a year ago in that link. Here is the current future place type map:

ftp://ftp.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Planning/GreenCode/GreenCodeWorkingDraftUDO/FuturePlaceTypeMap_December2012.pdf

The property, as with nearly all of Main Street in that section, is designated N-2C, neighborhood center. This zone is the same as will be on most of Elmwood Avenue, it incorporates nearly all of the existing Elmwood Design Standards, including mandating parking to the rear, in addition to a host of other better design provisions, like multiple stories, mixed use, visually permeable fenestration on the facade, etc..

replied to whatever
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Thanks for posting the link to the updated draft zoning map, but it requests a username and password. Perhaps it was not meant to be public yet?

replied to townline
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Hmm, don't know. It doesn't ask me for a password and I've never had one. Its the link that has been forwarded to all of the working groups for various parts of the plan.

replied to JSmith
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Huh. I'll try it on a different computer later.

replied to townline
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TLine - thanks for that link to Green Code's new map (which didn't ask me for password).

Although that raises a question maybe for others - why does the Green Code official webpage apparently only link to maps you noted are from 'over a year ago'?

The pdf to which my previous comment links (which jsmith pointed out on here last month) is what the general public is still shown under
Land Use Plan > Documents > Place-Based Mapping [Appendix 1]
from http://www.buffalogreencode.com

I don't notice anywhere on buffalogreencode.com any link to the updated map you knew about.
You're right - the versions look very different.

Also - neither the previous pdf nor the land use plan pdf mention at all the 'N-2C' zoning type that your updated link shows being proposed for 1610 Main.
Doesn't look to me that zone type is described (or even mentioned) in those publicly-linked docs, nor are it's proposed rules you mentioned for rear parking, etc.

Does anyone know if general public access (beyond working groups) to that stuff is limited only to the occasional meetings?
Or are the updated maps/rules/etc linked from the public website somewhere I didn't notice?

It's sensible for working groups to have some recent info the general public isn't yet shown, but also seems the public is being shown things very out of date if it's only material from over a year ago.

(about that other thing - I don't see how me distinguishing between things that have actually happened or not is 'make believe', ...
but regardless, time will tell where parking ends up being for this one - still seems to me like for now it's still anyone's guess)

replied to townline
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Yeah... that's what the city needs... another Family Dollar.

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Hey Repat, how's the Save-A-Lot or whatever it was that went up on Grant doing? I recall a discussion about it with you. I may be wrong. Just curious.

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The wife and I went there once. It serves a purpose I suppose, but it's not anyplace we'll return to. Wegman's and Tops are just a few minutes away after all.

We've been to Vineeta International Foods a few times since they opened. They carry a few hard to find items, and the signs of expansion inside for the purpose of carrying a wider range of products is encouraging.

replied to LouisTully
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I'm not sure about the name Family Dollar. I mean obviously it means cheap sh*t from China, but what is a family dollar?

For instance: I have one daughter does that make us worth .50 cents each. What about an Irish or Central American family of eight? Are they worth .13 cents each?

Why does this store get to monetize the family unit?

I think we should focus on a name change rather than the development. After all, which is more important: language or concrete?

I think even Chrome will agree is is the former.

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LOL

replied to ScreenPass
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I believe this is going to be a Dollar General not a Family Dollar.

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Years before these national chains, an already old industrial building on Broadway (north of Memorial Drive) had a local version of the concept called The Nothing Store. Such a great name.

This store made Family Dollar and its brethren look extravagant: old, dusty wood shelves, dark lighting and creaky wooden floors. There were great values, though.

For what it's worth, the acceptance of these dollar stores is changing as more Americans shop there. Here in LosAngeles, the 99 Cents Only Store chain has been hunting for retail space on Rodeo Drive for some time. Buy your Gucci handbag at full retail price then walk next door to get some boxes of five-for-one mac-and-cheese.

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Interesting about Rodeo Drive example, although in these discussions there might be confusion sometimes between stores where every item is $1.00 (or $0.99) which Paul mentions vs. Family Dollar or Dollar General.

The latter two, despite 'dollar' in names, don't have that kind of pricing and sell many normal brand name products - groceries, household items, etc. - a basic subset of same common products at Tops, Wegmans, etc. with good prices but not capped at any max.

The 'everything is $.99 or $1' type stores, including Dollar Tree, are pretty different - not that there's anything wrong with either type.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Maybe Familty Dollar should start selling fake-antique drawer pulls, door knobs and cast iron planters. Then suddenly everyone here would be cheering this news. :D

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