City January 16, 2013 9:00 AM

The NHL May Have Been Quiet...

The NHL May Have Been Quiet...
Recently posted in The Atlantic Cities, is a feature outlining a number of hockey towns that got busy announcing development projects, despite the fact that there has been no hockey season until now. The article leads off with a look at Buffalo's Harbor Center, showcasing a rendering of the Webster Block, and then touches on the addition of streetscape improvements along Perry Street - long overdue aesthetic and pedestrian improvements surrounding the arena.

From The Atlantic Cities:

The Sabres are also partnering with other businesses in the neighborhood to revitalize Perry Street, which abuts First Niagara Center and the new Buffalo Creek Casino. Though the redesign won't take care of the stretch of undeveloped parcels that serve as surface lots, it proposes a more stylized streetscape that aims to attract pedestrians and bicyclists. The hope is that it will encourage development along the city's Inner Harbor and Cobblestone districts. Work on the project could begin this year.

Other cities featured in the article are: Detroit, Edmonton, Montreal, New York, Phoenix and Pittsburgh.

Sabres-look-Buffalo-NY-1.jpg

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The sidewalks still look like shit. That being said, this kind of press/development gets me excited at places you don't talk about at dinner parties.

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are those floating 'lanterns' in the bottom rendering supposed to indicate a light rail extension?

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Sure looks like it, or perhaps streetcars, which would be fun (but also boondoggley).

(Anyone else get BRO blocked by Google Chrome as hosting malware? Nice going, that...)

replied to 5to81ALLDAY
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No they are just the lights. Instead of burying the electric lines to poles they used this. Purely astetic...

replied to Jesse
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There not for a street car. From a previous article on BR, they are a new type of decorative street lighting that hangs suspended like that.

replied to Jesse
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Specially designed to become useless at the first sign of an ice or wind storm, provide visual clutter to distract from suburban-style development, and limit the scale of parades and street festivals.

They are also meant to be 'green' by preventing trees from growing too large and enhance trash collection by accumulating plastic grocery bags and unwanted sneakers tied together by their shoelaces.

Best of all, they provide traffic calming features by requiring both directions of traffic be shut down to facilitate repairs and maintenance, which can no longer be done from the sidewalk.

replied to Jesse
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Wow! So much anger and opposition over some street lights!! You really have some time to think this through apparently

replied to DeanerPPX
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The lighting works in the Nordic countries very well I'd say the climates are similar.... It has to be cheaper to keep the power cables above ground than to bury them. Functional, cool looking, and cheaper. Sounds like a winner.

replied to DeanerPPX
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It has also been blocked by Firefox on my laptop and safari on my iPhone.

replied to Jesse
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Same here, thought it was just me. I keep clicking 'trusted site', but I don't see any way to actually report the internet police for trying to block a reliable site. Btw, a huge kudos to BRO for finally putting a stop to those annoying Asian spam comments several months ago. Whatever they did to secure the website has apparently not gone unrewarded...

Oh, and I'm not seething with anger over the street lights. I just don't see the same aesthetic beauty in them that their designers do. Ornamentation is a good thing, but not when the practicality suffers for it. On the rare occasion when we do get a bad winter storm, the first problem it creates is downed power lines... and this is four times the required number of lines in a storm-vulnerable area. Not sure how much thought the designer put into it, but that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the drawing. By the time I finished the sentence, all the other issues came to me as well.

replied to Jesse
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No problems with being blocked, but the site doesn't refresh properly on my Internet Explorer. Sometimes I need to hit refresh to see the newest stories, and I always need to refresh to see the newest comments. Sort of annoying.

replied to Jesse
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That's a feature.

replied to rpm40
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Mine gets blocked on Firefox.

replied to Jesse
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Someone should talk the Sabers into adding 4 or 5 floors of condos onto that tower.

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Pretty sure there's a limit to how high they can build.

replied to STEEL
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"Pretty sure there's a limit to how high they can build."

Why would they do that? It's downtown, not Amherst. that would be a curious move....

replied to Soccerdude5719
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You have been living in Chicago too long. It Sabres not Sabers. No Buffalo resident makes that mistake.

Add more floors for condos? This thing should not have been built here in the first place. It should have been located on the surface lots east of Mississippi St. Not only does it block views of the waterfront, but it now covers the front of the arena as well.

Steel, your too much of a vertical architect. If you want multiple floors of condos, look up the road at the soon to be 90% empty 38 floors of ugly former HSBC Bank Building. The sky is the limit there.

replied to STEEL
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Plenty of people misspell the Sabres

I considered before about obstructing the arena's atrium; however, we're going to complain about development because it conceals or obstructs a building? Isn't density what we want? As for the location, it's fine.

replied to Old First Ward
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If you are a Buffalo writer you don't misspell it. But since the writer lives in Chicago all is forgiven.

Who wants density? I don't. I thought we panned the density issue with Bass Pro and the other development structures they wanted to fill the area with.

Obstructing the atrium is relevant, however secondary to obstructing views of the waterfront. Add to that the Perry St. issue. I just think a better fit would be on the lots between Michigan and Mississippi St. This along with Marriott's Courtyard Hotel in the Donovan Building will cut off the core of downtown Buffalo's hotel business.

replied to LouisTully
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Well, you said Buffalo resident. Plenty of people in WNY don't know how to spell anything, even the hometown hockey team.

It would be nice to have something done with the handful of surface lots heading east, so I can see the desire that this have located in one of those spots. But look at it this way. People have complained about this project because this is such a prime location, as if we want to hang on to it just in case. However by creating a mass in this area it will facilitate development of those surface lots. A developer isn't going to say I don't want to do my project close to a successful, booming area because being a block away isn't prime enough.

replied to Old First Ward
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Well, you said Buffalo resident. Plenty of people in WNY don't know how to spell anything,"

I personally take offense to that :-(

replied to LouisTully
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I don't think that's too farfetched. If you click the link to the article, it shows Montreal building a 48 story building on their property across from the arena. I don't usually agree with steel but it wouldn't be so bad this time. 18-20 stories total could fit in nice no?

replied to STEEL
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If the Sabres are interested in streetscape improvements they need to look no further than Howard Zemsky's project in the Larkin district at the Seneca and Swan St. merge for some ideas. Zemsky is the real innovator of commercial and public space redevelopment.

However, my real concern would be to see the Sabres take a proactive approach on the backside of the arena at South Park. Hope here is that Sabres owner Terry Pegula invests in the block the bounds South Park, Illinois, Perry and Mississippi St. That entire stretch of historic brick buildings on Illinois St. directly fronts the plaza and parking ramp of the arena. It is badly in need of rehabilitation and activity.

I would have rather seen this block fully developed rather than to crowd the Webster block with more cold structures. This project should have been on the lots east of Mississippi St., not blocking the waterfront views and creating a dense cluster of tall buildings. I think it ruins the openness of the space.

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The BlackSmith shop along with the DL&W terminal are gold mines. If he dumped some money in there he'd make a killing.

replied to Old First Ward
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Many have tried to acquire and redevelop those properties (Trettel and Savarino to name two) but none have succeeded. They are owned by Darryl Carr and he holding holding tight to them like they were his first stiffie.

replied to Up and coming
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Many have tried to acquire and redevelop those properties (Trettel and Savarino to name two) but none have succeeded. They are owned by Darryl Carr and he holding holding tight to them like they were his first stiffie.

replied to Up and coming
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Great properties, with so much potential. A shame to see them just rotting. Thankfully, his demo request a few years back was denied.

replied to Quixote
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I actually LOL'd when I read that.

replied to Quixote
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I just read it again and it made me LOL for the second time. Good work my son.

replied to Quixote
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The building facing the inner harbor better be pedestrian friendly, green and spacious..There needs to be a restaurant facing the water with an outdoor patio as well...One of the pics/renderings show a Buffalo Grill facing it and another shows a roof patio for eating, viewing etc...These 2 components will compliment the inner harbor and where it is so far

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I just hope the Metro station here is remodeled. Every time I look at that weathered arch with the red paint pealing off it it I get sick.

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This is crucial. I imagine it wouldn't be expensive to scrap the whole station and build something subtler, either classic or modern. As it stands it is a hulking mess.

replied to Jay D
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People on here make me sick, how could you hate this building, its going to create something buffalo hasn't had downtown in years, a constant, year round traffic flow, sorry it blocks your view of the water, I guess you'd rather go park your car in the lot there now and stare at water instead having Mr Pegula invest his money here, lets just make it all parks and green space and then save every old building no matter how irrelevant it may be

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First of all you can still jog around the building in your Sabres jersey and cotton candy in hand. I hope your feeling better now.

Nobody hates the building, just the location. For the record, it will have two ice rinks, that's nice but I would rather be outside than inside skating all spring and summer. The hotel, is for visitors to the area, well I live here so my home will suit me just fine. I don't wear hats so New Era is out, coffee, you can get that anywhere. Does it need to be crowding the waterfront and blocking views, I don't think so.

I would have rather seen an first class aquarium complex on the Aud site myself.

replied to sabreshockey369
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" I would rather be outside"

Well, playing hockey is what some people do,,, year-round.

Since you're talking about the location again, can you respond to my comment above? I think your comments are very introspective.

replied to Old First Ward
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the views of what? Are you standing on top the HSBC Atrium and trying to see the water? Isn't the FNCenter blocking the water views too? Isn't the skyway blocking the views too?

replied to Old First Ward
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Well, I don't go to aquariums so that's just a horrible idea. And I don't get sick so we should get rid of some hospitals. And I don't like to fly so the airport is wasting precious land. And I'm not a navy guy so the Naval Park is destroying a waterfront asset.

Do you see where your argument is whack?

replied to Old First Ward
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Could not agree more. We hosted Ted Black a few months back ago and he talked to the project and we were blown away. The project will easily surpass the initial cost, and will be world class in many ways. Ignore the critisim, bunch of armchair trolls with little in the way of sway or contribution outside of their blog posts. Rot in hell to them.

replied to sabreshockey369
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Exactly. Terry Pegula wants to spend his money on this town when he has absolutely no obligation to and we're complaining? We should all be massaging his yadayada and thanking him for blessing us. Remember, this guy has more money than Jeremy Jacobs and actually owns a team in this City.

replied to Freethrow
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So what. Carl Paladino proposed to build out there as well, what does that make him? A saint. We live in a democracy, we don't have to bow down to people with money.

Don't misinterpret my concerns, I'm not putting down Pegula for proposing the plan, just the location. Now if Pegula would have presented his plan with alternative sites in mind, that would have allowed for a discussion and a consensus on the issue. That is public land, not Pegula block LLC. As owners of the space Buffalo residents have a right to disagree with a developer on his plans.

As for commenting on your concerns, I'm not sure what you want me comment on. I come to the table and state my feelings about something, then my alternatives, I can't think for someone else. Then maybe you have an idea that is better or worse, then maybe you convince me why. See, I just don't like to say "I don't like it" and then not offer explanations. I am not a yes man like some on this thread.

replied to LouisTully
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It's happening. It's going to be built. I don't understand the problem. I thought this town is all about 'progress'. This isn't progress? Was an old building supposed to be destroyed for it to be called progress? What was supposed to happen, sit on the land until Christ says "build this"? What I was looking for you to address, regarding the location, is my comment about why this location is such a problem. Is it going to stifle future development? Initially agreed with you, there are so many other places it could go. But how is it going to be a problem in this location? If it is successful and the area continues growth, those other surface lots will be developed because they will be attractive given their proximity.

replied to Old First Ward
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OK my point is this, this process proceeded way too fast. They were drilling core holes a week after the announcement. My concern about this location and pace is that this building will probably be here for at least 50 years. That is a long commitment for such a prime space. We are giving Pegula carte blanche to do whatever he pleases. The same thing nearly happened with Rigas. Everyone is so happy for the Sabres purchase and commitment Pegula offered, and I think that it has clouded their judgement.

All I'm saying is that I wanted to see alternative sites proposed and then have public discussions to decide what is best for us now and for posterity. We are just starting to develop that waterfront space. The skyway needs to be removed and who knows what else could be built there. How many examples are needed to convince people to take time approving these large projects. Once it's built were stuck with it.

IMO, this project is for out of town visitors and hockey players not the public in general.

replied to LouisTully
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I believe the City sent out a RFP for the site. At that time you were free to bid on the project and develop the site as you saw fit. The developer bought the site from the City and is developing the site utilizing for more private funds than other like projects. I am sorry you do not have say anymore.

replied to Old First Ward
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We complain about things taking too long - Bass Pro, Peace Bridge - and we complain about things going too fast, apparently. This project moved too fast? The RFP was made public as early as February, the project was approved August-ish. How long is it supposed to take? Do you think this was closed-door, no public had input? 50 years? Long commitment? Rigas? >grabs head, looks around baffled

replied to Old First Ward
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Oh, and I'm sure the restaurant retail space will be accessible to you, as well as the general public.

replied to Old First Ward
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Couldn't agree more. Pegula is aiming for vertical integration (Amerks) and horizontal integration (Hotel, Sports Management). Modern day Rockefeller. And since its hockey season..... GO LEAFS!!!!

replied to Old First Ward
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Who exactly is the "we" that hosted Ted Black? If your such a big player then identify yourself and please tell us all here about how this project will be world class with above projected costs instead of acting like a sarcastic moron that just spews insults.

Or are you not man enough, and just another armchair troll like the rest of us as you so well put it.

replied to Freethrow
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why?

replied to Old First Ward
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the webster block project is going to have a detrimental effect on the neighborhood if they continue the plan with several stories of parking above perry street. why do things like this happen in buffalo - can't we leave planning and design principles from the 1960's and 70's where they belong, in the 1960's and 70'. Otherwise, great project.

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Great. A parking garage with rinks on top. And a huge donut store! This is the silver bullet!

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LOL @ Phoenix: they built an entertainment Potemkin Village next door to the Coyote's arena, all in the middle of a GIGANTIC disconnected parking lot.

...But at least they got that far, unlike the big plan for Nassau Coliseum that totally collapsed.

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The Harborcenter is a great project and the best thing to ever happen to the long empty Webster block. We need more high rise buildings downtown especially mixed use complexes like this proposed by the Sabres. As for a small number of opponents that say this will block the waterfront, I say nonsense. It is not going to block anything. It will be architecturally and aesthetically beautiful and a major improvement over the ugly asphalt parking lot that now covers the Webster block. What do these idiot opponents want, little, low rise, rinky dink shacks and suburban style one and two story boxes. This is downtown Buffalo for christsakes, new development needs to be more verticle. If you want boring low rise horizontal than move out to East Amherst or to Clarence.

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