Regional December 29, 2012 9:51 AM

Final Push to Save Bethlehem Steel Today

Final Push to Save Bethlehem Steel Today

The Bethlehem Steel Administration Building may be headed to the landfill officially as news sources report demolition was slated to begin yesterday. Owners have been reluctant to see the building reused, even after conversations that detailed multiple approaches to save the building in a profitable way.

Don't forget, this piece of our heritage didn't get this way overnight. The owners neglected this building for the better part of three decades since they have owned it. The building hasn't made any friends with Mayor Szymanski either, as he has been a proponent of its demise from the start.

In previous news reports Szymanski said, "Pittsburgh adjusted, Cleveland adjusted. Buffalo has not and if we don't start making moves and start getting rid of stuff that is unusable, than we are going to continue to stay where we're at, which is nowhere."

He must not have been aware of Bethlehem, PA "getting over it" as they reinvented their shuttered steel mills and created an incredibly successful tourist attraction that is the pride of the city.  I have to assume he has never left Lackawanna to come to nearby Buffalo and see how we have leveraged our historic assets like the Hotel Lafayette, Larkin District, and so many more.

The degree of shortsightedness in Lackawanna is startling and considering what has been accomplished in Bethlehem, PA with their steel mills, serves as a great example of what could have been and still could be if the right path is taken.

Join those who have been fighting to save this architectural gem, which is National Register eligible.  People will be on site today starting at noon with protest signs in hand in an attempt to make a final push to make the owners and the Mayor see past the deterioration and realize the irreplaceable building they have. There will be a fire to keep warm and to roast marshmallows and media will be present. Dana Saylor, one of the most vocal and active supporters of reuse, has said, "This is a protest/rally, not a funeral. We are fighting this one though until the end."

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Can't wait for this demo to get done. What project currently under design and financed by a private owner will these obstructionists try to stop next? Guess we'll have to do what they do, wait for an application to be placed on a Planning Board agenda, find the year the building was built, rally similarly bored, misdirected, and self-anointed spokespersons for all of WNY and try to stop progress.

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What PLANS?

replied to buffalofalling
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Thank you for your outstanding contribution.

So PROGRESSIVES, NON-OBSTRUCTIONISTS... There was a preservation conference here last year, I imagine there should be a demolition conference as well? Needlessly knocking shit down isn't going to do shit for Buffalo. Take a look at Sedita in the '60's. You're telling me we should perpetuate that mentality?

replied to buffalofalling
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Curious; the decision to demolish this building, which is an island unto itself and not in the way of any proposed development, has been slated for demolition by whom?

It almost seems as if a panel of patients from Buffalo Psychiatric was arranged to make this determination but with all due respect to those suffering from mental illness, I suspect they would have convened on a more positive decision than total demolition.

I have never seen this type of copper ornamentation on a building except in Paris so what is the reasoning for the planned demise of this building?

The only other significant building in Lackawanna is the Basilica….and demolishing the Bethlehem Building is not altogether unlike demolishing Father Baker’s masterpiece.

replied to buffalofalling
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Buf_Res>"is not altogether unlike demolishing Father Baker’s masterpiece"

In an aspect that's apparently very impactful for how long a building continues to stand, the Bethlehem is very unlike the Basilica -
The Basilica has a private sector owner (the Catholic Diocese) who is willing to continuously fund it for ongoing uses.
This http://www.ourladyofvictory.org/Parish/Welcome.html
says they hold 20 masses per week in it (3 per weekday, 5 on weekends). That's over 1,000 masses per year.
It also says in addition to masses, they regularly use it for confessionals, baptisms, weddings, rosary events, and other purposes.

So for the Basilica, there's both a willing private sector owner and evidently a very practical ongoing daily use beyond hypothetical ideas.
For the Bethlehem, there's tons of hypothetical reuse ideas suggested in theory, but still no sign of any willing owner.

Score: 8 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

What plan are you referring to??? There is no plan other than the removal of the building. Do you just make crap up just to stir the pot? You should try adding a productive comment once in a while.

replied to buffalofalling
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Apparently they are building a corrugated metal shed building for storage. That's the last I heard of it.

replied to STEEL
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Not at this location though.

replied to Mike Puma
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I heard they are turning it into a parking lot [deleted].

replied to STEEL
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Eminent domain.

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let it come down, im sure there will be a couple crazy preservationist there trying to save this building 30 years too late. get your resources together and save 1 place at a time fixing it, not save save save and have no resources or plan to fix it, Dump!!

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If the all else fails, cant the facade be salvaged and possibly be reused on a new build in the city?

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Yeah just like the stones from the Aud were supposed to be salvaged and reused. Probably would have tied in real well with the new player plaza so I question whether or not they still exist. Then again they'd probably explode out in the elements.

It is unfortunate that some of these building are bought and neglected by architectually devoid individuals and uninspiring/lack of vision/plan politicians but until the Preservationists get into the ownership/development business they really don't have too much sway.

And really the last stands are really kind of obnoxious. Until demo was put on the table what outreach, reuse plans, research was provided to the owners by the Preservation Board over the last 30 or so years.

I will be sad to see what remains go. However, its obvious that what has been attempted up until now has been hit or miss. Perhaps time for a different approach. One that is more proactive rather than reactive.

replied to travelman
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“Architecturally devoid individuals”

I love that expression! - hope you don’t mind if I use it…

As good as, if not better than “deferred maintenance”

Kudos!

replied to MikeN
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Sure feel free except for just pay a small royalty to the Preservationist group. Figure I can do my bit to help them become proactive rather than reactive. Kind of like a swear jar - honor system.

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Szymanski has to be one of the most uninformed, unintelligent public officials I have ever heard speak.

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How about a compromise and demolish the non historic building attached in the rear

Then seal the building up foe a decade until there is a valid re-use

What's the urgency in demolition? Makes no sense.

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Maybe after they demolish it we can rebuild it, Paul. Then we can get to work on the Iriquois Hotel and the Old Library.

replied to paulsobo
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Why rebuild it if its still here?

As we have found time and again just because a worthy building has not found a re-use doesn't merit demolition. If this were true we would have no LarkinDisrict or theater district.

I want count you amongst those who understand the effects history and culture can have on economics and community self worth

replied to LouisTully
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Well that's too bad because then your number may include more than yourself. I'm a huge supporter of saving the community's fabric. I'm just making fun of you for the incessant and absurd call to rebuild structures demolished long ago. And I've yet to get a response from you on any of my comments as to how it could possibly in this universe be feasible, economically or otherwise.

I won't count you amongst those who can defend their points of view.

replied to paulsobo
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It could be quite possible that you are just not worth the time to respond to.

I will take Paulsobo's calls for historic rebuilds over someone who just would like a glorified parking garage to be built on a 'prime' parcel just because something is better than nothing when sometimes nothing is more than something.

If you are going to dream, you might as well dream big.

replied to LouisTully
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"someone who just would like a glorified parking garage to be built "

I never said that, Mikey. So I don't know what you're talking about.

replied to MikeN
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I did not say you said that - That being said, you have said something similar in past discussions. In regards to the Webster Block proposals, you did say the following:

"I hate the thought that something is better than nothing but I'm a little ambivalent here. A hockey rink produces constant activity. I just hope they're smart about parking solutions, ie. underground or attractive garage design that doesn't take up considerable space. "

I've enclosed the following link.

http://www.buffalorising.com/2012/06/just-three-proposals-for-prime-canal-side-site.html

It would seem to me you are/were quite willing to settle for mediocrity aka that "something is better than nothing".

And in all fairness I will save you the leg work and stand by the fact that I believe that nothing was better than the 2 proposals that were received. And I still believe that.

replied to LouisTully
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Well, if I recall, my ambivalence was because I would support both proposals because I believed they were both fine developments. Still playing hockey and having coached youth hockey, I am glad they chose the rinks.

Do you think either proposal was mediocre for the Webster block? I don't. They're both fantastic ideas that contribute density and would attract considerable amounts of people. In that case, I would say each is certainly better than the vacant lot there now.

Getting way of topic, regarding Old North, it is nowhere comparable to the discussion. Old North is a marvelous building and it's insane anyone could want it demolished.

As for how we even got to what we're discussing. Rebuilding structures destroyed long ago is equally insane. Fantastic pipe dream; but never going to happen.

replied to MikeN
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Yes, they were of mediocre design and limited purpose. And for one last time....

This was the taking of public (City owned) and sold to a private developer for people whom have the means to use. While I do not inherently oppose this in 99.9% of instances, I do however oppose this due to the location of the property. It was also sold to a developer who had a very rough outline at bid and most of the "follow up" was done behind closed doors. It was also to a developer who just paid to have the mess at Canalside grassed over.

In reality this is a parking revenue grab and for those who can afford a full service hotel (seems to me this will be mostly opposing teams lining the Pegula pocket); a Sabres themed restaurant (more Pegula game day grab); and Ice Rinks - I grew up playing the game and its not cheap nor is economic development around the rinks I grew up playing at of utmost quality.

While on design I could understand he got his elements from historical properties located on the site. Paladino's was mostly a parking garage with office space which I opposed based on the HSBC uncertainty. Secondly, he has enough other cr@p to clean up with in view of Canalside and others.

So no neither proposal in my review passed. It should have been a community asset that was unique and of community benefit.

replied to LouisTully
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I can't agree with much of anything you said. I'll leave it there. It's Saturday night and I'm still sort of young.

replied to MikeN
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As far as not being worth responding to, that's fine. My wife would probably agree. However if you make these fanatic comments all the time and can't even come up with some fantastical explanation how it would work then you're wasting everyone's time. I want to build an amusement park ride on top of HSBC tower. I want to build a tunnel throughout the city so you don't have to walk outside in the cold. I want to build the world's tallest building on the waterfront. Get my point?

It's just like Matt Richiazzi's plan for expanded rail that has no plan. There is nothing to support these statements. I'd love for it to happen, but it's not going to. To quote Wedding Crasher's: "I want to be Count Chocula; grow up Peter Pan".

replied to MikeN
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And to this point, your examples are a bit on the dramatic for comparison. They are not the same class.

A position advocating for two or three buildings to be rebuilt is not off the wall. Supporting this is two groups have built two different Frank Wright designs from 80 years ago: a boathouse and non functioning gas station; I believe a third was purchased and sitting in crates somewhere from San Francisco awaiting to be reconstructed.

Neither is suggesting light rail or any sort of rail being used to connect DT with the airport. Nor is moving Oak/Elm connecting corridors to Jefferson.

My point being is this at least provides some sort of productive dialogue of the past and how we link it to a future whether it be new builds adopting some of the designs of the buildings that once stood, or moving people in the future or creating larger areas of opportunity.

At least its not just settling for the mediocre aka the status quo. And unfortunately, its us the people who are required to begin the conversations because of the political ineptitude of the city, region and state.

replied to LouisTully
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"Supporting this is two groups have built two different Frank Wright designs "

And those small projects were a considerable cost. What Paul pitches is to build things of grand size. Things that would cost hundreds of millions. Just the other day he said we should rebuild the old downtown library. I couldn't find a cost of the original > http://www.buffaloah.com/h/library/tc.html

All I'm saying with this and the rail idea is give me something so I can get on the side of championing it, rather than just a pipe dream. You can say all the things you want but, frankly, they just aren't realistic.

replied to MikeN
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Why rebuild it if its still here?

As we have found time and again just because a worthy building has not found a re-use doesn't merit demolition. If this were true we would have no LarkinDisrict or theater district.

I want count you amongst those who understand the effects history and culture can have on economics and community self worth

replied to LouisTully
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I don't understand the rush after 30 years to tear it down now. NYS is spending millions on the waterfront and Fuhrmann Blvd less than 100 yards from this building. Next year Cuomo will increase the historic renovation credit, hopefully some developer will have the fore site to save this irreplaceable part of Buffalo's history and preserve the part it will play as an architectural tourist attraction in Buffalo's future.

replied to paulsobo
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It was in a tough area to get a developer interested. Had it been downtown it may have been another story. I don't know what your talking about, Szymanski knows what he's doing, Lackawanna a hot bed of activity, right? oh wait.....

Save what you can, its a shame but you can have a million good ideas but if no one is gonna invest in them there's nothing you can do.

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Exactly, soccerdude. It was a beautiful building, but the unfortunate reality is that it's in the middle of nowhere. As saddened as I am to see it go, I can't imagine a realistic feasible reuse for it.

replied to Soccerdude5719
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When you say "it's in the middle of nowhere", do you realize it's across the street from the new Union Ship Canal park and business developments? Do you realize it's near Dug's Dive and Gallagher Pier and the new sand beach being added there? Your definition of "nowhere" is a bit off.

replied to Greenca
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It's not in the "middle of nowhere"--it's adjacent to the newly revitalized waterfront AND ship canal. It's five minutes from Canal Side, three minutes from Ohio Street...ie, the very places where we are seeing a huge increase in activity.

replied to Greenca
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300>"it's near Dug's Dive and Gallagher Pier and the new sand beach"
trav>"it's adjacent to the newly revitalized waterfront AND ship canal. It's five minutes from Canal Side, three minutes from Ohio Street"

First of all, it's over 4 miles from Canalside, a 10 minute drive according to Google… map here shows the distance:
http://goo.gl/maps/hi5r1

The 3 things 300 mentioned are all summer-seasonal, and those 3 seem consistent with a "lighter, quicker, cheaper" mind set. Yes, Dug's might be open year round, but it isn't a people magnet except for summer. Likewise with Canalside. The ship canal is nice but has very little activity that would offer spinoff.

If being "near" those things makes it a good location realistically worth so many millions to rehab, why hasn't any willing purchaser ever made any serious offer to own the Bethlehem, even if only to maintain or mothball Central Terminal style?

Protest and brainstorming reuses are fine. Nobody should shut up.

Evidently, however, protest & brainstorming aren't enough to save it without anyone ever making an offer to own it and spend enough of somebody's private $ to at least have it comply with building codes.
According to this, many millions would be needed
"... [Lackawanna City] Council President Henry Pirowski said, "In a perfect world, I'd love to see the building still standing." But he also said the Council did not have the authority to prevent the mayor from pursuing the demolition.
Pirowski said he had heard estimates of $5 million to rehabilitate the building.
City Attorney Norman LeBlanc Jr., referring to a letter received by the city, said the estimates were more along the lines of $40 million to $60 million.
"I cannot force Gateway to put $5 to $40 million or whatever the figure is into that property," Pirowski said. ..."


Historic tax credits, even if expanded, certainly wouldn't fund anywhere near 100% of $40M to $60M.
Who would seriously offer the remainder, and if such a person or group exists - why have they been staying silent all along and even today?

If such a person or group does exist, might not those same many millions be more effectively spent in private sector development actually at Canalside?

replied to Greenca
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whatever: "The 3 things 300 mentioned are all summer-seasonal"

The Union Ship Canal is not just parkland. It's also a huge business development site. That is not seasonal... it will be year round business with employees and traffic. And as you mentioned, Dug's Dive is no longer seasonal - it's year-round.

Also Canalside is only seasonal now because the permanent buildings have not been built yet. Once the project is more complete it will also be a year-round destination.

replied to whatever
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300>"not just parkland. It's also a huge business development site. That is not seasonal... it will be year round business with employees and traffic."

Yes, I've been there. Although the ship canal site can be called 'huge' in size (over 100 acres), I don't know if the employee count & traffic of commuting employees is a 'huge' amount in terms of likely nonseasonal spinoff to nearby businesses. It has
3 companies now, right? - (Sonwill Distribution, CertainTeed, Cobey)
Doesn't it seem like a rather sprawled area around there? Not that there's anything wrong with sprawl when that's what people choose to have, but would workers at those 3 co's really be especially likely to be customers at something across Route 5 at the Bethlehem?

When you & trav bring up closeness of Canalside which is 4 miles away, by that standard of 'close', isn't much of Buffalo then close to Canalside?
If we draw a 4-mile radius around Canalside, yes this Bethlehem building is at the edge - and so well within that circle is most of the west side, all of Allentown, all of the Fruit Belt, all of downtown, the Midtown District, medical campus, Anchor Bar, even the Gallery-Museum District is not much farther than 4 miles from CS…
I'd just wonder again, in terms of likely nonseasonal spinoff from Canalside (which is what - a childrens's museum, public market, hockey tourneys, ice skating …) would a business venture 4 miles away at the Bethlehem be likely to receive a lot of impact?

Let's ask it this way - if you weren't from Buffalo and were assessing this strictly as a financial investment compared to other possible investments you could choose for your $, using only brain not heart & hopes - would you think spinoff from union ship canal business park and Canalside would be big factors? For what kind of business at the Bethlehem?

replied to 300miles
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It's not in the "middle of nowhere"--it's adjacent to the newly revitalized waterfront AND ship canal. It's five minutes from Canal Side, three minutes from Ohio Street...ie, the very places where we are seeing a huge increase in activity.

replied to Greenca
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Can eminent domain be used to acquire a property for the purpose of historic preservation? I think the legal standard is that the acquisition must be for "public use", interpreted broadly to include lands for resale with the intent of economic development.


Maybe we can get the Common Council to authorize and fund the Preservation Board to start using eminent domain to acquire chronically neglected historically significant properties. Establishing this portfolio of preservation ready properties could help facilitate a fluid public/private investment process that makes the objective of preservation more central to the planning and development process.

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The Buffalo common council and Buffalo's preservation organizations have no say in this because it's in Lackawanna. I don't think Lackawanna even has any preservation orgs (big surprise) and their city govt has shown no interest in preservation. If E.D. was used it would have to be at the county or state level.

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Just asking -

Would eminent domain even be legal for a preservation purpose? It can for building a public sector need, and in the Kelo decision, the Supreme Court upheld it for private sector economic development projects (in that case, taking someone's house to clear the way for a pharmaceutical plant, which ironically was closed down not long after being built).

But has it ever been legally used anywhere for preservation?

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It would/could be a nice park Casino i.e. Beaver Island and a monument/museum/gateway. I love how Higgens et al were touting the large representative dirt mounds that were supposed to represent the industrious past but sit silently now as an actual relic goes into the landfill.

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Is there any plan at all for the entire Bethlehem Steel site? It seems like Szymanski is out of ideas and the demo is just to show some kind of action on the site.

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What I recall is Gateway wants to build a warehouse on the site of Old North.

replied to davvid
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I'd doubt that realistically anyone would expect the city govt of Lackawanna to be able to help make much happen at that huge former Bethlehem site, no matter who the mayor is.

As for plans about it - I think what the Gateway company owns is to the west of Route 5 and they operate a port and have a crushed stone co there.

The rest of the Bethlehem site on other side of Route 5 is I think owned by others not Gateway (if I'm mistaken on that, someone can correct me), and it's received some state & county funding for cleanup and infrastructure work (building roads, moving rail, etc).
So yes there's plans/hopes to try attracting more industry.

Here's a couple sources on that...

http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/55843.html

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121129/CITYANDREGION/121129174/1010

replied to davvid
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Why is it unrealistic to expect a mayor to work with others to organize a plan for this land? Is it unrealistic because the land is owned by different private companies? I have been to the pages that you linked. The DEC link is old "The meeting will be held Thursday July 16, 2009 at 7 PM in the Lackawanna Senior Center" so I'm not sure where we stand with the clean-up. The new road.infrastructure is activity but its not a plan. It hints at a plan. UB2020 is a plan for example. There is a long term UB2020 strategy that you can find on a website and that website is regularly updated with relevant news and progress reports.

replied to whatever
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davvid - it depends on what's meant by 'much' when I said "make much happen at that huge former Bethlehem site".

I'm not aware of evidence that he isn't "working with others" (state & county) in that regard to try.

For example -
http://www.dos.ny.gov/press/2012/brownfield8-7-12.html
"Secretary of State Cesar A. Perales and Lackawanna Mayor Geoffrey Szymanski
Unveil City's First Ward Brownfields Redevelopment Plan
ALBANY, NY (08/07/2012) --
New York Secretary of State Cesar A. Perales was joined by City of Lackawanna
Mayor Geoffrey Szymanski, county and state officials to unveil the City's plan to
redevelop underutilized Brownfield properties back to economic use.
...The redevelopment plan establishes a direction for improving the First Ward area, with an emphasis on establishing higher value employment areas, strengthening existing neighborhoods, restoring and protecting natural areas; and providing waterfront access and recreational opportunities.
"Whether it's building a wind farm or revitalizing the area's business parks,
redeveloping Lackawanna's brownfields is a key to spurring new investment and
opportunities to Lackawanna," said New York Secretary of State Cesar A. Perales.
"We are pleased to be funding a balanced plan to spur job growth and
environmental revitalization to the area. I applaud the Mayor and all our local
partners for the work they are doing to revitalize their community."
...
The City's plan identifies five reinvestment areas and strategic sites for redevelopment, each with unique qualities, assets and potential.
… Lackawanna has a land use legacy left from heavy industrial manufacturing that once dominated the landscape. … Nearly half or 1,000 acres of this area consists of the former Bethlehem Steel site, which closed in 1983. ... Lackawanna's First Ward has experienced a number of challenges since the departure of the area's largest industrial employer, including population decline, limited investment in its aging housing stock, high poverty, high unemployment, below average income and below average educational attainment.
Furthermore, it is affected by close to 50 brownfields and vacant properties."


My point was just that it's a very heavy lift even if Bloomberg or (name any mayor of your choice) were trying to make 'much' happen on it.
Btw, he's been mayor for only 1 year so far.

replied to davvid
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I agree that its a heavy lift to transform an enormous swath of contaminated rust belt land. The planning of that heavy lift is not necessarily heavy though. That last link to the press release was informative. It shows that there is some strategic thinking going on even though I can't find the actual plan. The next step is for the gov't to communicate that plan to the public so that we can actually see if its any good.

Its still not clear to me why any plan would not endorse the reuse of a historic building that could potentially become a really beautiful centerpiece.

replied to whatever
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See this is the stupity in my view of why we lost so many of our greatest buildings.

Larkin Admin was demolished for a warehouse...a ware house that could go anywhere.

The Art Nuveau was demolished for a parking lot which today is the baseball field.

The Richardsonian Erie Savings Bank was demolished for M&T but M&T could have built anywhere

You can put a non-descript warehouse anywhere...you dont need to demolish a landmark historic building to do it.

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Although I totally agree with you regarding the stupidity of demolishing so many of our great buildings. I feel compelled to correct some of your facts.

The Larkin Administration was not demolished for a warehouse. It was torn down to create a "shovel ready site"....still shovel ready sixty years later.

The "Art Nuveau" building you refer to is Esenwein and Johnson's original art nouveau ornamented Statler Hotel torn down in 1968 for another shovel ready site...now the plaza for Coca Cola field.

The Erie County Savings Bank was torn down not for M&T, but for Main Place Mall and the new Erie County Savings Bank, now Main Place Tower.

All tragedies resulting in what would certainly all be National Historic Landmarks.

replied to paulsobo
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its been my experience that a lot of commercial owners, particularly those like Gateway that are more invested in businesses unrelated to real estate development, are quick to demolish because of the liability risk that these structures create. for example, how many readers here have already illegally been inside the building? likely more than a few, because the pictures are circulating and we all know people are curious. no problem, right? but in fact, this type of risk can easily be mitigated through demolition. particularly when a corporation isn't invested in a community or in a structure or in the future of this place and instead is motivated by profits and reducing annual costs.

i highly doubt that there is much leverage with the city of lackawanna. mayor szymanski already seems like a vocal opponent. therefore, it seems there is more hope of consensus regarding the building's future, through direct conversations with the owner.

i know very little about the "plans" or motivations of the owner, but as a business owner I would be much more likely to consider possible plans, if real plans/proposals were put on the table. maybe these conversations have already been attempted and they have failed, but it seems that this is where you direct your energy. if a short term plan is proposed and presented to the owners, something that can curb risk while also supporting a future payoff, then MAYBE keeping the building around makes sense, as a future investment. i have 100 questions before i could even begin to brainstorm a path moving forward, but it seems a direct conversation with the owner is the best path.


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"quick to demolish"

Ok as a generality, but in this case are you implying that 27 years = quick?
Wasn't it back in 1985 that Gateway bought the property including the building?

"i have 100 questions before i could even begin to brainstorm a path moving forward, but it seems a direct conversation with the owner is the best path."

Also ok of course, but this very well known building's vacancy and risk of demolition have received extensive coverage in various local media over the years/decades…. Buffalo News, this and other blogs, Spree magazine, TV news, …

Would I be an unreasonable jerk if I wondered as a 101st question why those 100 questions weren't already asked before the demo contract was announced?

replied to reuseaction
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Does anyone know the condition of the interior. I suspect its mostly destroyed. If that is the case then we are really only concerned with the shell. Cant the exterior be salvaged and repurposed? I didn't know about the Aud stone that someone mentioned earlier but think about this for a moment. Paul Sobo has mentioned rebuilding some of our lost treasures. We are on the brink of losing another....that IS a bit removed from any significant development. If the exterior was salvaged a modern interior could be built to receive the beautiful facade. Perhaps in one of the "shovel ready" lots closer to something in town.

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While I think rebuilding stuff is crazy talk, and it would cost a sizable amount to disassemble/reassemble... there was a program on PBS the other night about a European gothic cathedral that >wealthy philanthropist or something from the early part of the 20th century

replied to travelman
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Here is the Aud salvage:

http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/Home/Leadership/Mayor/Archive_Press_Releases/2007Archives/December2007/MayorBrownAnnouncesPendingTransferOfAud

The Agreement also includes the removal and preservation of certain “iconic” fixtures – including two stone Art Deco-style American eagles that flank the former front entrance on Lower Terrace; the carved stone Art Deco-style State of New York seal, also on the front façade of the building; and approximately 18 Art Deco-style flag standards and their bases. These fixtures will remain the property of the city.

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Szymanski was most likely flattered by an offer of a half dozen pierogies and some cream soda for the demo permit. It is his lone glory ride to notoriety that he would never have achieved for any legitimate reason.

Heck, anyone who spells Jeffrey with a "G" has dubious leadership credentials out of the gate.

Maybe the City of Buffalo ought to seize the property and everything north of Ridge Rd. including the Basilica and Holy Cross Cemetery in the southeast corner. We could accomplish that with a day shift garbage crew. Then we will demo Lackawanna City Hall.

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The reuse of a facade was done on Fifth Avenue when a new tower was being built. The city required a set back for the tower and the reuse of the existing store fronts. The fronts were dismantled, refurbished and re-installed when construction was complete. This now the Henri Bendel store at 5th and 56th.

http://www.nycmagazine.com/2011/11/08/henri-bendel/

you can just see the tower at the top of the photo

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The city required a set back for the tower and the reuse of the existing store fronts. The fronts were dismantled, refurbished and re-installed when construction was complete.

What is your source that the storefronts were dismantled then reinstalled? I don't remember this at all. It is my understanding that the structures were merely restored.

replied to travelman
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I worked across the street during the process and knew someone on the project.

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That's odd. Everything I have read over the years said that the facades were left intact during the process. Indeed, I just checked this morning and can find no source or photos that confirms your statement. If true, it's quite interesting.

replied to travelman
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Looks like nobody here has actually BEEN to Bethlehem, PA.

The entire southeast end was turned into a GIGANTIC Sands resort. You people would shit yourselves silly.

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I was taken aback to casino described as a "tourist attraction" in a BRO article. I remember reading about that when they were building their casino they had high expectations for it. If I recall correctly, there was a delay because they ironically had a hard time getting the steel they needed for it.

replied to Jesse
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Just saw this great comment on email (remember email?):

Much like Samuel's Grande Manor "up North". Just picture the SPECTACULAR sunsets as guests dine outdoors or indoors...as just like Hoak's guests at the restaurant (vs. upstairs banquet hall) could watch the waves. In summer guests would enjoy our up-and-coming waterfront enthusiasts enjoying windsurfing, jet skiing and sailboating. Those colors against the summer blue would keep them there anticipating the sunset....much like Olcott beach! My point obviously is we could present some of the most enjoyed treats of WNY all from one vantage point. If only folks had vision...

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Knock down the rear office addition and I could 100% see this building as a Samuel's Grand Manor on the Lake with banquet rooms and conference rooms and hotel rooms.

Plus you have ready clientele from the new businesses occupying the industrial park...conveniently off Route 5. Ford just down the road.

What's missing is investment but as the industrial park gets more populated the risk will drop and the money easier to gain access.

What's missing is time. Are we really going to demolish an irreplaceable building because of timing again

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Knock down the rear office addition and I could 100% see this building as a Samuel's Grand Manor on the Lake with banquet rooms and conference rooms and hotel rooms.

Plus you have ready clientele from the new businesses occupying the industrial park...conveniently off Route 5. Ford just down the road.

What's missing is investment but as the industrial park gets more populated the risk will drop and the money easier to gain access.

What's missing is time. Are we really going to demolish an irreplaceable building because of timing again

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"Our Heritage" of rich, cheating f*cks taking advantage of poor working-class slobs & poisoning the air, water, and land while stuffing millions into their own pockets. Level the whole site and let the trees and birds have it.

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The location of this building is not sunset or lake view quality by any standards. Are you people serious.... a restaurant? All you folks with these grand ideas need to come up with some $$ and put your $$ were your mouth is. Go take on a project. Stop crying and get to work! Oh thats right you dont have the guts or the $$ to take the risk. Its easier to tell everybody else what to do with their money. Thank god we live in the USA... freedom of speech is an awesome thing.

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You're a tool. Is this WAREHOUSEDWELLER?

replied to Onthedownlow
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Im a tool... get real Tully. Everybody has something to say but no cash to play. Like i said, its a good thing people like you live in the USA... freedom of speech. But try something new... invest in your ideas with some $$. Ideas and "a set of b-lls" built this country and some of those people only had a few a bucks in their pocket but they followed their dream and got it done. So I am suggesting some of the "Savers" put their money were their dream is and follow through. Get a set Tully and all you "Savers" you can do it too.

replied to LouisTully
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I took my set to Afghanistan, fella. Don't worry about what's between my legs. Come up with something better than if you don't like it get the cash and buy it yourself. And contribute something better than the typical diarrhea from trolls like yourself.

replied to Onthedownlow
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Tully.... your insults are lame. Thanks for serving our wonderful country. I truly mean it! But at the end of the day it takes money to maintain, perserve, restore and redevelop. Somebody has to take the risk. This country was not built on socialist mentality.It was built on ideas, risk and people with enough stamina to accomplish their dreams. Therefore, people have the right to express their opinions and the people who own property have the right to do what they see fit as long as they play with in the applicable laws. I am sure the owner will sell the property to anybody who wanted to rehab the building. My point about the $$ is the reality of all realestate projects and if you think its not your a fool.

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So... still here? Not here?

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