City October 25, 2012 11:44 AM

Preservation: A Discussion Worth Having

Preservation: A Discussion Worth Having
By Jason Wilson, Director of Operations at Preservation Buffalo Niagara:

Body - "It has been said that, at its best, preservation engages the past in a conversation with the present over a mutual concern for the future." I would have to argue that this quote by William J. Murtagh, the first Keeper of the National Register of Historic Places, perfectly summarizes the recent debate regarding the future of the locally-landmarked Erie Freight House. Mr. Murtagh's comment touches on the importance of having an informed, public discussion about our community's history and the structures that embody that history, while preparing ourselves for future growth and reinvention as a region. And this discussion is surely most provoked in Western New York when a 'Preservation Issue' is being debated. Enter: the Erie Freight House.

After years of neglect and poor maintenance the circa 1868 Erie Freight House, which is the only extant freight warehouse building associated with the Erie Canal left standing in the City of Buffalo, is being slated for demolition. The current owner who recently purchased the property is proposing to replace this ignored landmark with a five-story apartment building. And so we find ourselves at another crossroads of the past, present and future. So what happens next? How do we evaluate the feasibility of saving this neglected landmark while taking into consideration its historical importance? Who facilitates this conversation? Or do we just let yet another neglected historic structure be demolished on a Friday afternoon without saying much more than a 'good riddance?' Enter: Preservation Buffalo Niagara (PBN).

In its role as the region's leading not-for-profit Historic Preservation advocate, Preservation Buffalo Niagara is tasked by its funders and membership to ensure that, at the very least, a conversation takes places regarding the historical justification for saving a particular structure as well as the feasibility of its reuse. Our work is at times very public asking the larger questions of why something was lost or who was responsible, as is the case with the recent demolition of the Bernstone's Cigar Store at 273 Main Street, Buffalo. The majority of our work is done outside of the view of the public pursuing a variety of efforts; whether it's working with small community groups like the folks at the Michigan Street Baptist Church in Buffalo to find ways to stabilize their history structure, or operating 'Buffalo Tours' - the largest educational tour operation in the region, or conducting the most comprehensive inventory survey of houses of worship in the Cities of Niagara Falls and Buffalo.

In the case of the Erie Freight House, Preservation Buffalo Niagara would like to guarantee that all of the interested parties, the community as well as the owners, have an informed opportunity to weight the pros and cons of preservation. This discussion started with the Buffalo Common Council's approval of PBN's local landmark application for the Erie Freight House, which provided two public hearings for citizens to voice their opinions. As part of that process the Erie Freight House was determined eligible for the National Register allowing a redevelopment effort of the structure to be eligible for Historic Tax Credits. A few weeks ago PBN participated in a walkthrough of the site with the current owners and a member of the Preservation Board to assess the structure's condition. As a result of our visit to the site, PBN wrote a letter to Commissioner Comerford, Department of Permit and Inspection Services, asking that his office investigate the owners' claims that the Erie Freight House is too deteriorated to be rehabilitated. PBN's Executive Director Tom Yots recently met with the owners to ensure that the process regarding the demolition of a locally designated historic landmark would be followed and to discuss possible reuse options. Tom also offered and subsequently arranged for officials from the New York State Historic Preservation Office to tour the Erie Freight House in November in order to provide an even more thorough analysis of the potential for reuse.

This recent Buffalo News' article provides some hope that everyone will be given a chance to be heard on the issue. Commissioner Comerford is quoted saying that his office will "not [be] issuing a demolition permit until they go through the process; I can tell you that right now." The process that Comerford is referring to will include a public hearing hosted by the Preservation Board, which is a key piece of the extra level of protection provided to designated Local Historic Landmarks. Ultimately, this public hearing as well as a thorough investigation of the feasibility of reusing the historic Erie Freight House is what Preservation Buffalo Niagara is requesting. If it is determined that the structure can not be saved, then at least there was a conversation about what we've lost. And if it's determined that the historic landmark can be saved and rehabilitated, then it should be.

So why should we save our historic structures? The Buffalo Niagara region is proud of the heritage that built the cities and communities in which we live and work and has become our identity at the local, state and national level.  An important piece of this identity is the context of the region's downtowns and neighborhoods.  This is rooted in the preservation and reuse of our ancestor's buildings in conjunction with the introduction of new buildings that complement the existing fabric. In order to maintain our unique built environment, we as a community need to give serious consideration to all alternatives regarding the reuse of our irreplaceable historic structures before demolition is even considered.

This is a discussion worth having.

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while you are wasting time and effort on this, the beautiful Central Terminal sits, decomposing season after season... now that is a building worth fighting for. NOBODY is ever going to visit buffalo and say WOW! look at that freighthouse. NEVER. But the Central Terminal, that's a different story. Move on!

Score: 32 ( 66 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Finally, a voice or reason!

Talk about beating a dead horse to death; the remaining pillar of the former Larkin Administration Building is more significant than this hulking piece of dilapidation and I bet there will be a hundred responses, pro and con, on this structure or, what is left of it.

Move on to something worth saving....

replied to schvanstuchen
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So theoretically, because we have a losing NFL football team, we can't have a winning college or amateur team? PS The Buffalo Rugby Club had an undefeated season.

Just because the Central Terminal has not been completely rehabbed, though hundreds of people are working at it, does not mean that other valuable historic resources cannot be rehabbed. The Freight House is a much smaller, more obtainable, project in many ways.

Do you think that the Freight House is going to steal some magical pot of money from the Central Terminal? No, they have separate projects, missions, and opportunities.

replied to schvanstuchen
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I liked this op ed in the News from the other day: www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20121024%2FOPINION%2F121029668%2F1074

Why aren't we keeping the (precious) waterfront for predominantly public use? Reusing a freight house would be in keeping with that.

Score: -1 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

How much "public use" do we need? We have how many parks? Most of which are rarely, or severly underused. We need development, we need people living in the city, not more underused parks.

replied to Travelrrr
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It's easy for people that never use the parks themselves and rarely hang out in the city anyway to tell everyone that parks are "severely underused". They're actually used quite a bit by a lot of people.

And besides, how do we measure what is underused? The Ralph gets used 8 times a year by a lot of people all at once. The majority of the year it sits empty. Parks don't always get 70,000 people at once but they are used all year round by people who actually live in the city.

And why do people always paint it like it's either all preservation or all new development? Why can't it be both? There's plenty of undeveloped space in Buffalo for new development without having to tear anything down. Drive past the empty lots all around this Freight House and there's no reason why the freight house couldn't be saved while having the brand new apartments right next to it or nearby.

replied to Up and coming
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Yep. Over 20 acres available fronting Ohio Street alone, as we heard at the forum last week jointly sponsored by Buffalo Rising.

replied to 300miles
Score: 4 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

What's funny about your comment is that you know nothing about me, but choose to judge me anyways. I was actually hoping someone would bring up this point though. Last night my GF and I had dinner at the Gallagher Pier, which for those who dont know is a gorgeous area with some of the best site lines on the outer harbor. So on this gorgeous night, at this gorgeous location, guess how many other people we saw in the two hours we were there? Six, a total of six people in two hours. So much for public use and all the people who use it. Also, I spend more time and money downtown entertaining that probably 99 percent of the people on this site, so don't patronize me.

replied to 300miles
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I apologize if I misjudged your use of Buffalo parks. I don't know to what extent you use them... once a week? every day? handful of times per year?

I'm usually at one of the parks, paths, parkways, or marinas basically everyday through most of the year at different times whenever I get the chance and see the highs and lows of the crowds. Some days are dead. Some days are packed. The summer is busy but gets quieter when the weather changes. It's obviously quieter during the week than it is on weekends, but i've been surprised to see how many people go before work in the morning or during their lunch breaks.

So while I judged you on a couple posts, you seem to be judging the parks on a couple visits. A wednesday night in late october isn't going to be the busiest time for Gallagher pier. Even successful waterfronts like Chicago get pretty quiet once summer is over.

But good that you are enjoying it. Gallagher is a really great spot at sunset. It would suck if it were off limits...

replied to Up and coming
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Realistically, i'd say anywhere between 30-50 times a year.

replied to 300miles
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Public use doesn't have to mean a park, it could have stores the public could use and rent out to sell things. How about a Bass pro, ahem but seriously a fishing store would do well, with a few other stores taking advantage of the proximity to the water. The current plan has no relation to the water and is a waste of waterfront space. Any time new development is made on the water the relationship with the water should be a top priority.

replied to Up and coming
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I wouldn't say that the buffalo waterfront was rare, and therefore, it isn't precious. There's tons of underutilized waterfront land and to say none of the hundreds of acres of empty and sometimes ugly property on the waterfront should be in the hands of evil developers is counterproductive.

Anyways, isn't this all a moot point, since savarino proposed a public boardwalk to make for continuous public access along the river?

replied to Travelrrr
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Doesn't Savarino's plan call for a boardwalk to be open to the public? Currently you cannot reach the water's edge at this site, unless you want to risk your life. And what about Peg's park 200 yards away? Or the new Mutual waterfront park around the corner? Or Paladino's proposed rowing club right next door? I think it's time to mix it up over there with some private investment that includes residential that also still includes public waterfront access.

replied to Travelrrr
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How long has this been the last standing freight house in Buffalo? If the preservation community wants to be taken seriously by all it needs to become a proactive group..not a reactive one.

If Great Lakes Paper had taken care of the building as they should have...just how would the preservation community pursued a reuse option on the structure? Do you think you can just claim ownership of anything that is old?

Lastly, it seems the only funding that the preservation community wants to discuss is tax credits. While those are powerful, all they are is a savings for those who use their own money to push forward projects.

I see on the Preservation Buffalo Niagara site they list multiple 'services' to the community but not one of them involves fundraising. Why is that?

Looking at their tax documents this group spend a very high percentage on wages and really does not take in that much.

I wonder how many folks who feel like they should have a say on private property have actually given any amount of money to further that cause.

Score: 9 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Did you read the article? The author mentions that a lot of their work is not public advocacy but meetings and walk-throughs. You wouldn't see that on the local news. Can you imagine how many emergency meetings we'd have to have if that hard work was not being done?

Also, preservationists are not the City building inspectors that can make owners maintain their property. The City is not even respecting the Preservation Board's proactive Landmarking initiative.

replied to longgone
Score: 4 ( 8 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

"Obstructionists -- A group of people worth ignoring"

Score: 8 ( 30 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I'm so sick of this SAVE EVERYTHING attitude. I grew up in WNY and lived in Buffalo the last 6 years and hadn't heard a damn thing about the Erie Freight House until someone came around with a plan to actually build something there!

This is a freaking warehouse we're talking about being significant to our history?!?! I just don't get how this is that important of a SAVE that we should be halting actual development.

Which says nothing of the fact that none of you own this building. Why should everyone in the community have a say in something that is privately held property?

GET OUT OF THE WAY AND FOCUS ON THE IMPORTANT BATTLES BUFFALO. This strategy of trying to save every building at the last minute is turning people like me (previously neutral to preservation) against you.

Score: 10 ( 40 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I have yet to meet this (perhaps straw) man who says "SAVE EVERYTHING." This is the last remaining building of its type, used for this purpose, on the Buffalo waterfront. It was involved with both canal and river shipment -- both crucial threads in the fabric of Buffalo's heritage. Other buildings like this along Ohio Street and other places were lost long ago -- hardly the fault of PBN, which was formed in 2008.

Actually, from what Jason is saying, preservationists worked -- behind the scenes, as he says -- to get this building out of the grips of its previous owner, which was not maintaining it. Based on other writing, a development group with a preservation & heritage-friendly reuse plan have attempted to purchase the building & put their own skin in the game.

As for "why should everyone in the community have a say in something that is privately held property?" well, that's the fundamental basis for zoning and preservation laws. Both things that Buffalo Rising has a long and proud history of supporting and championing the application & enhancement of (Green Code, preservation tax credits, proper use of zoning & preservation laws, etc.)

Again, this building is a local landmark. The preservation community has been working in partnership with others for some time regarding this building. It's reuseable, and a development group willing to reuse it is trying to do so. At the forum jointly sponsored by Buffalo Rising last week, it was pointed out that there are over 20 acres of empty land fronting Ohio Street on which housing and mixed use could be developed.

So it sounds to me like this IS a battle that matters. If there are other "battles" that you feel are more important, blog away! Like Jason did.

replied to UnionAMG
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"I have yet to meet this (perhaps straw) man who says "SAVE EVERYTHING."

It's not a man, it's a mentality.

replied to RaChaCha
Score: 1 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I have yet to find that even as a mentality. Literally zero is the number of times I've ever heard anyone express even the idea, let alone the words, that we must "save everything." Searching my memory the closest I can come is the guy at Main & Court waving a Bible and saying we must "save ev-ry bahdy" but he wasn't talking about buildings.

"Save everything": straw man, straw mentality.

replied to Up and coming
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rachacha>"Based on other writing, a development group with a preservation & heritage-friendly reuse plan have attempted to purchase the building & put their own skin in the game.

If they made a serious bid to own it, good for that group (compared to some other buildings for which those kind of serious purchase attempts don't happen).

Evidently, however, their offer didn't include enough 'skin in the game' compared to Savarino's. Obviously it was for sale by previous owner before landmark status happened, or else he wouldn't have been able to buy it then.

How much skin did this other group offer compared to what he did?

Are they still offering to buy it now?
How much are they offering Savarino for it?

I don't care either way if the freight house is demoed or saved using private money, but since it wasn't yet landmarked when he purchased legally, it seems unfair to not let Savarino to make that choice.

If back then he bought a nonlandmarked property with an intent of replacing a building on it with new residential, outbidding others, isn't the fair reasonable thing now to let him do so?

Maybe the landmark law should be amended to say the restrictions don't apply to the current owner at the time of landmarking, or for a few years. Even with how it's written now the City can still allow demo. That seems like the best decision for this one, unless Savarino changes his mind or if that other group RaCha mentioned makes a high enough offer to him that he decides to sell.

replied to RaChaCha
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A discussion worth having, indeed -- and a building worth preserving.

Well said, Jason & PBN!

Score: 0 ( 28 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Haven't we discussed this enough? How many forums, meetings and walkthroughs do we need to figure out that there is an overwhelming majority for the demolition process. Not to mention a third-party organization that has deemed it unsafe and a real threat to anyone who steps past the fence.

I'm all for preservation, but the majority of the supporters of this Freight House come off as being stubborn obstructionists. Not every building is worth saving. Lick your wounds and move on.

replied to RaChaCha
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Knock down the freight house asap. Make a public announcement about it and invite the public to witness Buffalo moving forward. Make sure the preservationists have front row seats. Progress, Not Regress!

Score: 4 ( 28 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I am going to say this again. The folks trying to save this building (PBN, BNRK, C$GB, Flynn Battaglia, etc.) are doing a HORRENDOUS job of convincing anyone that it is worth saving. You have yet to post a single worthwhile picture of the supposedly amazing interior. You haven't gotten anyone else anyone excited about the building or why it should be saved. You have produced a very vague rendering that, as far as we know, has zero financial reality to it.

I am enormous proponent of preservation. But when a clearly higher and better use is at the table (and I don't love Savarino's design), I'd like to see a quality new urban development. I think Savarino has some work to do to make his building of a better quality, but the concept is clearly a huge win over the freight house.

I cringe when people constantly associate preservation with obstructionism. Its not, that sentiment is ignorant. But when you have such poorly constructed arguments and public messages, as has been the case with the freight house, its hard to defend such stupid movements.

Score: 13 ( 27 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Really hoping this shanty "accidentally" falls over in the middle of the night.

Score: -1 ( 23 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Me too. One bulldozer could probably take that piece of crap down in 5 minutes. Midnight rendezvous?

replied to Jay D
Score: -3 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

this freight house is a dump!! YES DUMP!! get rid of it and bull doze the preservationist with it. or someone can throw a match its way and im sure this crappy timber will go up in flames. time to move on!!!!!!! save something worth while instead of blocking progress all the time

Score: 1 ( 19 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Whoever the lawyer is that represents the preservationists must be making BANK!!$$$

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i hear there are some high winds heading our way this weekend, lets hope the remainder of this blows over this weekend!!

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A whiskey distillery would work so well here. Distillery's are tourist destination's all over the world. With it's rustic look and feel the freight house would be perfect for such an operation. Savarino's building is boring and could be built anywhere along the river. First floor pull in garage space is progress? Building a wooden walkway over the river is progress? If done right the freight house would have a much greater wow factor than a boring anywhere USA building Savarino is proposing. I can see why people want to knock the freight house down but a little creativity could go a long way and would be a perfect spot to tell the story of Buffalo's shipping past. People want authentic and historic not crappy new build materials and boring design. Ask yourself - would a tourist come to Buffalo to see a crappy new build on the river that has no significance whatsoever or would they come to a distillery (or whatever other cool idea you can come up with) to see a historical building, learn a story about Buffalo, and to take in 'fill in the blank' business that now occupies it? It's a no brainer and I am surprised more people cannot see this?

Score: 11 ( 27 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

100 percent--dead on

replied to boozehound
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100 proof--dead on

replied to boozehound
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Seriously -- I love this comment, and this idea. It's a great example of the kinds of creative ideas that could be in the mix (mash?) if this building is preserved and reused. Prosit!

replied to boozehound
Score: -1 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

JHC - A distillery?

Historic distilleries, that have making great product for centuries are tourist destinations. A brand new distillery, that does not even exist, let alone have a product, is a solution? No wonder why Buffalo can't have nice things.

Even if there was a magical historic distillery that could locate in this building, the structure would not support it.

It's a WAREHOUSE. It would need to be scaled back to the point of not even resembling anything historic to allow for something to like booze to be made there.

replied to boozehound
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Longgone you need to get out a little. There are distillery's popping up all over the country just like local breweries. I'm not gonna to your homework for you and provide links to them all and the tours that go through them. Google it. The building is historic, the distillery does not have to be but over time if done right will be. The idea saves a building, adds a cool business, and gives Buffalo another opportunity to hang it's hat on a cool local product just like Salen's hot dogs or Webers mustard.

replied to longgone
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the plural of distillery is distilleries. wouldn't mind if we actually -had- a few distilleries.

replied to boozehound
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You claimed that:

1 - A whiskey distillery would work so well here.
2 - Distillery's are tourist destination's all over the world.

I pointed out the fact that:

1 - A whiskey distillery would not work in this building and provided reasons as to why.
2 - Only distilleries with a long tradition would be even remotely considered something of a tourist destination.

I have no problem with the idea of distilleries or breweries. I enjoy them very much. But to claim that for this specific situation and location a distillery would not only work but attract tourists is just silly.

You posed the question of 'would they come to a distillery' and the answer to that is no. NO, people would not come from outside of Buffalo to visit a distillery that has no brand, no product and no history or any significance whatsoever.


replied to boozehound
Score: 5 ( 7 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

When was the last time you traveled anywhere to see someone's townhouse/condo?

I'll answer it for you. Never.

"Build a distillery!, the hipsters squawked, from their skinny jean factory. If you build it, they will come and they’ll bring more obstructionists with them! And fake glasses to wear, as well!"

Only problem here is, much like the vet school and the Buffalo Bills stadium -- you have to have interest in it. Of which, you do not.

replied to boozehound
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BBT, your exactly right. I have never said I'm going to 'x' city to see the new condos that were built there. But, I certainly have been to cities and seen really cool condo developments that were done as destinations and have gone through them. Just cause that idea is foreign to Buffalo does not mean it is not happening. Like longgone you may need to travel a little.

I'm pretty sure I'm the farthest thing you can find from a 'hipster' ha.

I'm also pretty sure that I have been to more Bills games over the last 20 years than you and that I support the stadium staying exactly where it is cause I actually use the place and like it and I do not just dream about where it should go with no plans of going there when my dream comes true.

replied to ByronBrownsTie
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On the topic of travel -- I'm in National Sales for my company. I travel everywhere. All the time. Which is why I can say, people want mixes of new and old. There's repurpose and there's ridiculous.

On the topic of the Bills -- no you haven't.

On the topic of this building -- 97% of the people commenting here didn't know what the hell an Erie Freight House was until Savarino decided to build something. My point is once again, as it has been for years -- either buy it yourself and preserve it or shut up. Or, give me your address so I can over to your house and criticize your landscaping or tile in your bathroom.

On the topic of historic distilleries -- what makes them historic? History. We don't have whiskey history, unless you count a Thursday night Crown Royal challenge.

replied to boozehound
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I travel plenty. I have been to over 12 breweries in Brooklyn, San Francisco, San Diego, Portland and Ireland. I have been to both the home of Jack and Mark to cure my taste for booze. These travels have provided me the perspective to understand you don't have any.

You want amazing condos? Tear down the damn grain elevators. 'The View' is a basic real estate principle. The first projects in converted industrial neighborhoods are never show stoppers. Those folks want a safer bet. The first projects are like this. Maybe you should get out of Buffalo guy, take your own advice and travel some.

No need to worry, not much will happen while you're gone.

replied to boozehound
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This whole freight house thing is giving is giving preservation a bad name. There are many things worth saving. A rusted out shed with a whole in it is not one of them.

Focus should be placed elsewhere like reuse for the elevators, or historic houses on the east side.

Any objective person can see that this project is a net positive

Score: 4 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The focus of our collective efforts should be rooted in world peace. Without world peace we have no preservation.

-Feel free to quote me.

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I lean towards the practical of the 1st 2 posters who invite us to seek priorities. I would add reconstruction to restoration/re-use.

The Central Terminal, Broadway Armory, Olmsted Park System etc are all higher priorities

The Larkin Administration Building, Hotel Buffalo, Hotel Iroquois, Erie Savings Bank, Buffalo Savings (ie first Federal Treasury Building in Romanesque Style) these were major features of Buffalo identity and brand.

Higher priorities. I can agree with this...

Score: 5 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment


This building should be saved.

Why is the Central Terminal still standing? People got together and decided it was worth saving, even though many in the community did not see the value in saving it. And as with the Central Terminal, those of you calling for demolition will be proved wrong.

There are plenty of other sites that the developer can build on. No need to take down such an historic structure.

Score: -1 ( 19 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Indeed. I remember when the Buffalo News editorial page opined that the Buffalo Central Terminal should be demolished. Their reason? "We can't save everything." Gives the lie to that argument, no?

replied to hamp
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Or when the News and Mayor called for the demolition of FLW Darwin Martin House, calling it if I remember clearly, "an eyesore whose time has come to meet its maker."

replied to RaChaCha
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Huh? This would be an indoor offering. Not sure what that has to do with "unused" parks. The author's point was/is that the waterfront should be for public, not private residential, use.

replied to Malone_C
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I have an idea for a compromise. The building has an interesting history and is certainly unique. However, it is not structurally sound and it's original design is not very compatible with redevelopment. Any re-use plan will likely be expensive without much payoff potential, or in other words not likely in the real world. If neither side is willing to yield nothing will happen while the preservationists demand that money appear out of thin air to turn the building into a community center and Mr. Savarino battles endlessly in court to develop the land as he wishes.

The best course of action is to compromise and allow the building to be demolished as long as the replacement development incorporates elements of the freight house and the canal-era theme. While I lean toward the side of tearing the freight house down, it would be disappointing to see a unique building torn down and replaced with cookie-cutter condos that might as well be in Amherst. The goal of the preservationists in this case should not be to obstruct development, but to ensure that new development carries on the legacy of the structure which has reached the end of its life. This building has been neglected for years and is past the point of repair. It should be torn down to make room for progress. Still, it would be a shame if the new development fails to be anything but just another block of condos with a parking lot. Make it unique. Preserve the legacy of the freight house by incorporating it in the new design.

Score: 1 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

If PBN wants to go through with this, they should hold a design charette for the reuse of this building, replete with numbers! Bringing in the NY SHPO will do nothing but hamstring the developer, that office is the regulator not a potential client.

Score: 2 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This is another shining example of why Buffalo goes nowhere. Ridiculous.

Score: -1 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment


"This is another shining example of why Buffalo goes nowhere..."

This is pure nonsense. In fact the situation is just the opposite. Buffalo is making great strides in no small part due to its preservation of its historic buildings. The Freight House is unique and will be another attraction for both residents and visitors once it's saved.

replied to chevy064
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Fail.

replied to chevy064
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To again quote someone from an above comment...no one gave a crap about this building til it came down to doing something good for this city.

Score: 5 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Not true! Again, this paragraph from my comment above:

Actually, from what Jason is saying, preservationists worked -- behind the scenes, as he says -- to get this building out of the grips of its previous owner, which was not maintaining it. Based on other writing, a development group with a preservation & heritage-friendly reuse plan have attempted to purchase the building & put their own skin in the game.

Also, I personally know that members of the development group mentioned above have been looking into reuses for the building for at least a couple of years now, going back to the time information started coming out about the condition the previous owner was allowing the building to fall into. Why would they have needed to be involved if the previous owner had been maintaining the building--?

replied to Move Along Plz
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I enjoy the efforts of both sides.. but.. this is just out of hand.

Score: 7 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Someone has a plan. A plan that isn't all that bad, and actually good. It's better to go through with a good plan that is in place then play a game of tug-o-war for five years until all investment opportunities walk away. Tear it down. Now. This is why we can't have nice things.

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How cool would it be to turn the Freight House into a freight house, or maybe build the new Peace Bridge here. Maybe a developer would turn it into a storage unit for cash and give it all away every Friday.

We need new, progressive leadership.

Score: -3 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I have no doubt that if saved, this will be a destination in a few short years. This could be a lighter, cheaper project in our new Distillery District. Wouldn't hurt to have the Sabres back by then, though.

Score: -3 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

all of this fighting for a shack. LOL this is absolutely pathetic, and quite frankly an embarrassment that we could call this freight house a destination. THERE'S NO architectural significance. IT WAS BUILT quickly for a simple purpose of industrialization. There's nothing worth saving here. Tear her down she's seen her day. Buffalo should build on its past while preserving it indeed, but I'm sorry this sorry excuse for an adaptive reuse that is all but rotted is all but ludicrous.

Score: 7 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I love preservation of buildings that are worth keeping. Ones with real meaning. This was a shed. A large one that but it wasn't a market. Its the last one of its kind because its a shed. There is a nice one next door that houses rowing club materials. They both served the same purpose; housing stuff until it was needed. Its not like Buffalo became a vital city because we built shed
I wish preservationists focused on buildings they want to save before someone comes in to knock it down. The preservationists seem to work at the eleventh hour every time. (this shed, the Lackawanna steel building, name a church...)
We understand why preservation is important but you need to be realistic in what you say. This is a beautiful plan but there is no developer for that. If this was turning into empty space i would agree fight because there is plenty of open space their, but its going to be something that might be a catalyst for an area that could offer so much. Why should we have to wait for another two decades for something to happen there....just so we can look at a shed.

On a side note toilets that were used by Joseph Dart should have been saved because they relieved him so he could think more about his plans about the elevator system he invented instead of pooping his pants.

Score: 7 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Turn it into a welfare park and call it Obama Park, named after our first foreign president

Score: -8 ( 18 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Solid comment bro.

replied to Malone_C
Score: -2 ( 8 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

U wot m8?

replied to Malone_C
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Clearly there is no obvious use for this building immediately, as is.

But I can't help but wonder, in 50 years when we are all dead or well on our way, will people here appreciate the 50 year old apartment building, or the 200 year old Erie Canal related building.

Even if its just to purchase and mothball this building, it would seem like a worthwhile cause for PBN to take up. There are no other 1860's vintage buildings just laying around.

Score: 3 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

well put. we have a 20-year backlog of vacant buildings, meaning that it takes 20 years or more for a building to find its new use. that is just how it works here, like understanding that peaches take longer to ripen here than they do in georgia. (if i am incorrect about peaches, i ask that the gardeners among us provide a better analogy).

if it is rehabilitated into a something like the quincy market in boston, which is what the reuse proposal reminds me of, everyone will gush about what a no-brainer it was. everyone is a preservationist after the fact.

meanwhile, last i checked, we still haven't run out of vacant land for new condos. this is a case where we can have a funky timber-framed freighthouse as a unique commercial development -and- new condos. in fact, having both in close proximity might be the most profitable thing to do, as they could mutually increase each other's value.

we can have our cake and eat it, too. one does not have to be sacrificed for the other to occur.

lastly, from watching the comment streams on the many articles on the topic, it seems like whoever has the best renderings wins the argument. i hope we are not that shallow. but i guess we are, since a bad cladding material, like those awful asphalt shingles, is enough to doom many an otherwise fine house to the landfill.

timber framing is easy to fix and the process of fixing it could help train new timber framing apprentices. why not turn the restoration of it, assuming all job-site safety requirements are addressed, into an educational opportunity for the public, much like archaeological digs in urban places? rusty siding is easily removed. wooden clapboard or shingles are readily available. this is a modest and simply constructed one-story building. it is not rocket science.


replied to RobH
Score: 3 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

No question that a tin shack with rotten wood is easy to fix. It certainly isn't rocket science and doesn't take an idiot, although it certainly does take an idiot to impede this project.

replied to grad94
Score: 3 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Well, we never had much luck with our peach trees, so I wouldn't know about that. Though, our climate does make for a longer dormancy period, so that might suit your needs for an analogy.

However, I've got my concerns regarding the roots of this particular tree.

Everyone I've spoken to with engineering or construction experience has expressed some degree of skepticism when asked about the potential for re-development of this particular structure on the grounds of safety. Granted, framing is supposed to be relatively easy, but this is an old structure that has settled over time, in addition to having collapsed in several places. They'd certainly have to brace the structure (In several places) in order to clear debris and stabilize the building, but even then, accidents can and do happen.

What are the odds of a potential developer finding someone willing to take on such a contract for a reasonable price, what with the liability involved? The insurance costs for the job would likely be hefty, though I'm not sure who would have to cover that.

I rather fancy the idea of re-using what timber can be salvaged, and re-building elsewhere along the river, or at Canalside. I think that your idea of turning it into an educational opportunity would work well with that option.

replied to grad94
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It seems to me the bills could use this site as their Field House. I mean it does already start with a "f"

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Seems like some thought has been given to context of specific preservation efforts. Can we have the same kind of post from PBN about:

The Cooperage
Church at Richmond and Ferry
Central Terminal
Trico
DL&W Terminal
Erie Freight House on Exchange Street
Illinois/South Park buildings in Cobblestone District
Seneca Theatre
Public School 57
Bethlehem Steel headquarters building

Which of the above is most derserving of being first in line for a large hunk of public funds so it can be put to public use? Where would you rank the Erie Frieght House (what's left of it) on that list?

Score: 4 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I applaud PBN's efforts and all the great things they've accomplished to date for our region. But I have the same question as you. With so many buildings in need of attention that are by all accounts more architecturally attractive and have more reuse possibilities, where does the Freight House fall on the priority list?

I understand that it is in immenent danger of being demo'd or collapsing further, but what about the cooperage across the street? That building has all the elements to be an attractive mixed use building yet the owners have done nothing they said they would and the building is worse off now.

Why is Savarino being held to a higher standard then the Cooperage owner, the Cobblestone owner, Fairmount Creamery & Greystone hotel (Paladino), Etc?

Instead of going after a developer who has plans to build something more realistically beneficial for the community they should pursue the negelctful owners of those other buildings who have no plans and continue to let their buildings rot.

replied to Quixote
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YAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNN... drank this last night... it was dope
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/147/85497

Score: 1 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Looks dope! I mostly drink Genesee, but I love microbrews.

replied to Kyle Broflovski
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As for the efforts of PBN please stop. I appreciate what you do but please not this. Public funding in buffalo is short and should be focused elsewhere. Please embrace the private investment interests that do come along.

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So the plan is to buy it and mothball it while they beg the state and city for money to use the plan they haven't developed yet.

I would rather see a building reused the knocked down. For example Catholic Health redevelop an building instead building the new one they planned.

My biggest question after where the money coming from is when will restoration/redevelopment happen? I would rather not see this eyesore sit here for 10+ years while money or interest slowly comes together.

Score: 1 ( 1 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

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