Kennedy looking to lower fees for food truck industry
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Leave a commentKennedy finally doing something moderately useful.
I used to live in Cleveland Heights and food trucks are very prolific there (probably due to the $100 fees/licensing) but they do run into problems similar to what happened with Lloyd and Amherst. Local restaurants get riled up and then find some way to legally get them out of nearby parking lots or the streets.
I recall a similar government cash grab with micro-breweries, NYS use to have the most expensive permit requirements for brewers, I think recently they came to thier senses and made it more affordable.
But exactly what does a NYS senator have to do with a municipal permit fee? This is entirely a city of Buffalo issue. Why is Kennedy involving himself? What exactly is his "proposal"?
Also, the $1,000 fee was negotiated at great length last year by city legislators, food truck owners, and restaurant owners. I don't know how Chicago or Cleveland regulate their trucks, but it may well be that Buffalo puts fewer restrictions on where and when trucks can operate, in return for a higher permit fee.
Mr. Kennedy may want to reread his copy of 'Wealth of Nations'.
Using phrases like 'unleash the growth potential..', and giving the impression that new jobs will be created is typical of his party's lack of understanding of the economy.
For every well placed food truck cherry picking customers from brick and mortar restaurants, you'll just move the employee from in front of the grill inside a restaurant, to the inside of a truck. The number of people buying lunch doesn't change (perhaps a marginal increase due to convenience).
Food options at off hours will decrease if enough food trucks materialize. The brick and mortar owner knows that he needs to stay open during certain slow times (as long as he covers the marginal cost of staying open) so that people will continue to frequent his business during more typical meal times. The 'truck' has no such incentive. Buying food from a food truck is the economic equivalent of buying a foreign made car, then wondering a few years later...where did our manufacturing jobs go?
Mr. Kennedy should do more to attract/promote truly innovative companies that drive dollars from outside our community, into our community. Not the zero-sum trading of lunch money between food trucks and brick and mortar stores.
I hear ya benfranklin but food trucks offer certain spice to the city experience. Many visitors that come back from Austin or LA mention first and foremost how cool the food truck scene is. Buffalo needs the cool factor and food trucks contribute to the young hip image. To level the playing field the City could reduce or eliminate BS permits to brick and motors too, patio license, live music, dancing etc..I do agree with the distance away from the front door however. There is plenty room for everyone to do business but make it easier for them to make money.
you're assuming mr. kennedy reads actual books.
seriously, though, you've got a more thought-out argument than one usually gets when it comes to food truck opposition. there may indeed be no net gain in simply moving dollars from diner x to food truck y.
or maybe there is. that is where your off-shoring jobs analogy is flawed. (no analogy is perfect.) the restaurant that loses to a food truck might be a national chain. how many of us would mourn the loss of a timmy ho if it means that java joe the local guy prospers?
and how do you answer the argument that brick & mortar places can deliver right to someone's door, while food trucks may not? like reading paper books vs. e-books, doesn't each mode have its competitive advantages and disadvantages? and is that necessarily a bad thing?
I had a conversation today with someone who said, I'm not going to XYZ restaurant any more, because there were fruit flies in my pop. He said...'they clean those machines everyday, right?'
I made a 'not great' investment (many years ago) in a business that put me in more commercial kitchens in WNY than I'd like to admit. Some are spotless...some are...well, not so clean. To answer the question from my friend this AM...they never clean those machines. Good luck if you get the first pop of the day.
Brick and mortar restaurants have an obligation to not get their customers sick. Serve a few bad meals, word spreads, and you're done. A food truck that starts to feel financial pressure, well... you can park at a lot of different corners before it would catch up with you. That was the founding principle of the chains that we now denigrate (in a strange town?, this place won't kill you).
People who've never been in the food business make assumptions that aren't 100% correct. It's a business, just like a gas station or oil change business.
Adam Smith..."It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest." If I'm guaranteed to have a different customer base tomorrow, it will over time impact the quality of food I put out. If I'm going to be at a fixed location tomorrow and forever, my putting out quality food not only satisfies you today, but is an investment in having you return tomorrow. Sorry for the long response.
Serve a few bad meals, word spreads, you're done. A food truck that starts to feel financial pressure, well... you can park at a lot of different corners before it would catch up with you.
except that there's thing thing called the internet where people can and do complain about bad food service, wherever they might find it. food trucks are fair game. ever heard of yelp? in some cities, a low yelp rating can sink you.
Wealth of Nations was an odd reference on your part. Excllent book, but I'm not sure this is the right place to use it. Grad pointed out the intinal flaw. Smith is apt.
The issue is who are we shifting the wealth from? I think your missing the point that the food truck may bring in new people and the change is more likely a movement from low-paying service jobs to higher paying service jobs. I think food trucks are going to pull from outside Buffalo, to inside Buffalo. Money that goes to the franchise for McDonolds doesn’t stay in Buffalo, the money form a food truck will. The argument you make is same as saying that Community Beer Works is stealing from Budwiser and its a zero sum game there for we should not buy a better quality product that keeps money local then a mass market product somewhere else in the county.
I could be wrong, we'll have to wait awhile and see what the Chamber of Commerce tracks from all this. Buffalo loves studies I’m sure we could commission one. It will also be interesting to see what it does to lease rates in the areas food truck set up shop.
I think my position here is being a bit misunderstood. I couldn't really care one way or the other about food trucks. Personal taste, do what you want, let the market settle it.
My problem is with an elected official who lacks any basic understanding of the economy, overstating the positive benefit of his proposed legislation. My reference to Wealth of Nations was not how it applies to food trucks, but that the senator might want pull himself away from Entertainment Tonight, and read a book. He needs it.
I don't have numbers to back it up, but I'd think a person who might eat at Spot, Cafe 59 or Chris's NY Sandwich is more likely to stop at a food truck.
ben's points are good about both letting the marketplace sort out which food businesses succeed and about politicians such as Kennedy being so often misleading &/or clueless about differences between shifting jobs vs growing jobs.
(side note about people who care about local owning, however...the example of Spot is arguably less locally owned than even publicly traded McDonalds, so if local food trucks ever draw customers away from Spot that might be cheered)
On food truck fee topic -
When the city first announced $1000, I thought it sounded ridiculously too high. What other cites charge doesn't seem very relevant, but if Kennedy is accurate about brick/mortars in Buffalo being charged fees around $100 or $200 then I'd agree with him that food truck fees should be lowered down to something near that.
However, it's a different question whether NYS govt should force the lowering. The fee doesn't seem like something the state should control the way Kennedy is proposing, even if he's suggesting a smarter amount than the Common Council chose and mayor signed.
Fee amounts aside, there's a different change NYS should make about this. Food truck licenses/permits should be county level, not city or town.
A food truck business that usually operates in Buffalo (or Amherst, or Hamburg, etc) but sometimes wants to do so in one of the others for events or any other reasons shouldn't have to obtian a separate yearly license/permit in each city or town..
Changing this to be per county makes more sense for a mobile type of business like this.
Oh, now I see. I read the WBEN article - http://www.wben.com/pages/14543992.php?contentType=4&contentId=11652719 - and Kennedy wants NYS to regulate how much municipalities can charge food trucks.
So the State will be adding new regulations to prevent cities and towns from making their own local decisions about how to regulate food trucks. Thumbs down.
Wow a dem (especially one from Buffalo), grasps that lower fees and less regulation will spur innovation and growth? Did I really just read that?
I don’t see find $1000 per year stifling to the food truck business. That’s under $4 per day for a 5 day work week. Nobody likes paying any sort of tax. Fee, permit for anything. I am surprised that other cities charge so much less.
Usually I talk a big game about getting government out of the way of business through lower taxes and regulation. However, since food trucks aren't the sort of "business" that me or other decent people would patronize, I say we get government in their way by taxing and regulating them to the point where they lose their competitive advantage with my friends in the B & M restaurant business.
Who wants to eat from a truck anyway? Yuck!
With their petroleum sucking generators and truck engines, these shops are great for business if you're a Saudi Prince. Every time you eat a taco, you put a twinkle in his eye.
Can someone explain Kelly's comment: "To charge more for food trucks, who pay property taxes through their rental fees for commissaries, is unfair."
What rental fee is she talking about?
In this context, a commissary is a centralized kitchen. She's saying that this physical kitchen in a building, is either owned by the food truck proprietor, where they would pay property tax, or, if rented, some portion of the rent is paid by the landlord for property tax.
In the licensing process for a food truck, I'm not sure if they have to show proof they have a commercial kitchen. You'd expect there might be a hole here...where a person could use their own kitchen to prepare the food, and save a substantial cost.
I can sympathize with Brick and Mortar establishments in this case. Let's say you buy a house in a high demand area, pay the corresponding taxes due to the higher assessment, take care of the property, maybe even add some improvements. Now let's say someone parks a trailer on the street by the curb in front of your house every week, enrolls their kids in the school your taxes support, and all they pay is a registration fee for the trailer. Would you be happy?
that's a good analogy.
Yep - I keep moving to the other extreme here - I think we should jack up the fees on food trucks and use the increased fees to provide incentives to businesses that actually will invest in the real property in neighborhoods and commercial strips.
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This is a no-brainer. Reduce stifling local fees for all businesses across the board and the local economy will pick up.
"Derrrrrrr. Huh?", inquires the typical local politician...
This has got to be of the last hurdles an entrepreneur needs when trying to get things off the ground. If more entrepreneurs feel like they can afford to open shop, the government gets more pockets to pick anyways. The government gets paid in the end, rather in the beginning (which most likely will end up being a greater amount when more businesses open). On top of it all, we all get to enjoy the goods, services and employment of these businesses.
I know, I'm probably preaching to the quire here, but come on, Buffalo.