Freight House Owners to Apply for Demo Permit
Comments
Leave a commentWell, start clicking away at the thumbs down icon but this building needs to be de-constructed before some goofy kid or squatter is injured or killed.
Post & beam timbers can be re-used elsewhere so give them to Michael Gainer....
While I support preserving historic buildings and our architectural heritage, it's not going to break my heart if this building comes down. The pros outweigh the cons.
However I do believe there could be alternatives available to satisfy the needs of both development and preservation. There is a very large parcel nearby this building that is essentially a parking lot. According to the Erie County GIS its primary owner is Carl Paladino Revocable Trust and has an assessed value of $190k. It is a much larger parcel, it's closer to downtown, and then it would leave the freight house open to re-use. Just ideas to ponder over.
When is the last time Palladino has sold anything? the guy doesn't need the money and he has no reason to sell. Hes not the kind of guy thats going to sell property out of the kindness of his own heart to benefit the community...
savarino may not be termini but hes a good developer. Im sure he will follow through with this as long as he isnt sued to the point of giving up.
save the timbers on site (that should be a nice draw) and donate the rest to reuse and others. problem solved
Much luck to savarino. He's being a real urban pioneer here in a part of town that could really be great.
Yes......tear it down and begin the resurrgence of Ohio Street...With water access, these condos will rent quickly....then maybe a commercial site, renewd gas station....more access on ohio street....
Please tear it down, Ill do it this weekend if I have to....Cloaked and masked
If the building is to come down, I implore Savarino to allow/plan for reuse of the interior beams...but Buffalo ReUse, ReUse Action, SOMEONE......
Don't just throw into a landfill.....we are beyond that.
I have found this story an interesting one to follow. There seem to be solid arguments on both sides of the question. I support preservation; Buffalo's future is tied to its past and our historic architecture is one of the greatest gifts given us by those who peopled this city before us. The freight house may not be the Guaranty Building, but it does tell an important story about why this city exists. And yet, redeveloping Buffalo's waterfront is a cause that has gained momentum and needs to keep moving forward. As a keyboard commentator, I am torn. I hate to see history go, but Savarino's plan sounds like something that should happen, and it seems like the more likely to materialize. Does anyone know more about the "Restored Freight House Framing", shown in red in the drawing? A tasteful approach that respects the importance of the site might be enough to get my vote.
I like the idea to preserve a portion of the timber frame, I think this would be a reasonable compromise and would add some interest to the site.
this side article on Acropolis has me irritated- so rant I have to....I am so tired of preservationists, obstructionists and politicians, annoying old neighbors etc.....I dont know if anyone has had there eyes opened the past 50 years but what we have been doing hasnt worked....We are one of the poorest ciities annually in the country, publics schools suck;(which was just revealed by an outside consultant that we paid a ton of money); but already knew...Neighborhoods are struggling to keep commercial spots open because of out of touch owners, A-hole neighbors....When is someone going to tell Buffalo and all of their loud mouth politicians that what they have been doing doesnt work...
Finally after too many years of awfulness...I can only name 2 or 3 cities that seem to be suffering more than us...Finally there are a select few who are willing to put money into the city and turn a corner and we still have idiots blocking them...Maybe its time to let these people try and grow the city...Progree works...It may not look asthetically great sometimes but it works....Just ask all 200 other cities that are doing better economically than Buffalo...................
Let Savarino build his buffalo river condos, let Acropolis creat a Greek destination.., the list goes on....
It is so frustrating...And for the people that want to obstruct, make them responsible for something instead of their own loud mouths.....
It looks like keeping and restoring a bit of the existing framing plus the rebuilt wharf might be a nice nod to preservation and build some authenticity into the new build without stifling a big private investment.
I have to say though, the City should order something quick. Saving a bit still looks like its going to be a challenge, and if the building keeps sitting as is - its ALL coming down this winter. I can't believe the City has a condemnation order but this is still standing. If there's squatters like the article mentions, someone's going to get hurt and then the fingers start pointing. Rather than a old building or a new build we'll have a pile of rubble, lawsuits, and everybody afraid to move forward with anything.
Sounds like a plan moving in the right and reasonable direction.
The preservationists have lost all credibility with this issue. There are other buildings more worthy of saving. Their time and efforts should be turned to those buildings (like the Bethleham steel building and the Trico building) To the general public they look like obstructionist fools on this.
If preservation were based on polling, we'd have a lot of strip malls.
Actually the preservationists putting the spotlight on this have already improved the plan. It is obvious the proposal to save part of the timber frame was a bone thrown out to appease those with concerns, another positive win for Buffalo and the preservationist community.
I agree with this compromise. However I take issue with the DEMAND to save the whole building and force Savarino to forego his apartment plans. That is not reasonable and does make the preservation movement look bad. A reasonable plan by preservationists would have been to ASK Savarino for a compromise from the start.
It's all about tact and when you go off the deep end you lose precious credibility and clout when you need it most. Take into consideration this is not Paladino and Savarino has probably the best track record for re-using historic buildings in a modern way.
That's my gripe with the whole situation.
Tear it down and build-it will help revitalize the whole area, maybe even save the Harbor Inn from demo...oh, wait.
sad that he has to take pictures and post them on a blog to shut up the nit-picky preservationist.
I will personally operate the wrecking ball for you Sam!
With all the complex issues that arise in the preservation movement this one seems to be a simple one to me. This couldn't be a better plan given the existing conditions and the future plans for this site.
It's a shame that the freight house was neglected to the point its at now. But how often do we have a developer willing to address that immediately? Typically a building like this would either completely collapse on its own or the city would perform an emergency demo at a cost to the tax payers leaving us with an empty site and no development whatsoever.
If Savarino manages to salvage any of the timbers and re-incorporates it back into this plan than seriously, what more can you ask for?
I hear you, this preservationist doesn't always agree with some of the stands or tone taken by the preservation community. That said I still think they are correct 90% of the time and have the best interests of the city in mind. I have no respect for the knee jerk tear it down crowd that contribute nothing to our city.
You and I have a similar record in preservation and we both work in the area of building/construction. That experience gives us a more credible and realistic take, something not always brought into these discussions.
I was replying to brownteeth's 11:22 comment, not sure why it ended up down here.
Thank you. I do agree 90% of the time too but given my profession along with personal and professional experience, the other 10% of the time that I don't agree are for instances like this.
My reasons for backing demo are the following:
-This isn't disrupting a dense urban fabric
-The building has already collapsed
-Private investment that creates residential density and creates public waterfront access not currently there
-There's a solid plan in place to immediately build on the site that will now incorporate elements of the Freight House
I say continue to fight for buildings like Trico that are in danger of being torn down for the sake of it.
Nice to see preservation creating jobs.. for lawyers.
Even worse, I bet the attorney for Pres Co. will do it mostly...PRO BONO!! Nothing more stubborn than a lawyer who isn't taking a case on an hourly or contingent retainer.
You guys know Eric Starchild (or "Elmwood Eric"), the jewelry dude? He lives here. How could you think about knocking this place down? That's somebody's home, man.
It's a scary thought that people are indeed living there. It's a death trap.
Salvage some wood to be reused, and get this thing torn down.
"...if indeed Savarino needs to apply [for a demo permit] at all as the building has already been condemned."
I would expect that if you intend to demolish a building that was just recently granted landmark status, it'd probably be a good idea to have a permit.
So who is the idiot that is going to sue him?
I wish there was a way to expedite the lawsuit, and then have the judge publicly humiliate the plaintiff. Do we still have stockades?
lol, this is what preservationist want to save, ahahhahahah. this is worse than i thought. tear it down !!!!
also i say leave 1 timber up to satisfy the preservation freaks , thumbs down me :-)
Put up a plack and a picture with a history of the site and call it a day. Savarino is already incorporating many of the historic elements into his design, including the primitive foundations and restoring the public wharf! Mark my words this project will be the first among MANY similar developments along the Buffalo River. This is exactly what this area needs and we should encourage this type of development to make it more feasible for developers. Obstruct this anymore and the project will be dead. LETS GO!
Actually, even Savarino says he won't be bothered by waiting til spring to start, so there's plenty of fall and winter for obstruction to take place without it delaying his plan and his taking his marbles and going home.
Is the buffalo river clened up yet. Is sewage still being dumped into it, haven't been down there in many years
If saved, this place would make for an incredibly cool distillery/saloon.
no one in all of preservation history in buffalo has ever sued a private individual or company. if anything, the city of buffalo might get a lawsuit if they grant a demo permit without review by the preservation board, as the law requires.
p.s. the interior of the webb building was way more messed up than this. timber framers can fix this stuff pretty easily.
There was still a valuable and stable exterior at the Webb though. What does this have? Corrugated steel siding? Even if the clapboard is still there its junk by now.
It has 150 years of history, I know it's a Freight House but it's the last of it's kind and is a direct connection to the Erie Canal Days that we are trying to rehash in Canalside as a tourist attraction. We have the real deal right here why not capitalize on it instead of wasting an opportunity like this? Box apartments can be built nearly anywhere, these are especially bad since they have no connection to the water and waste the waterfront it's connected to.
Why is it so hard to come up with an idea that incorporates the waterfront instead of plopping a box down next to the River? Even if they build new this new build is bad for a waterfront property.
It seems everyone's demo-lust will let a lame apartment be built just to get rid of the last remaining canal building.
What does this have? History and landmark status, to name a couple of things.
Does the developer have to follow the pres board process since this building was condemned prior to the current owner and the local landmark status?
If he has has not done so already the Commissioner needs to screw up his courage. Stop enabling this mysterious group that Savarino claims is playing the public in order to snatch up the property. Who is this group? Isn't their spokesman an employee of Riverkeeper? Is Riverkeeper part of this cabal? If so how can they purport to represent the interests of the community, insinuate themselves on policy making and approval granting boards, keep this piece of property out of the public discussion and then try to sweep in and take it from a private purchaser when their plans are foiled by an earnest cash purchaser? God I hope this is not the case. Good intentions do not excuse bad (illegal?)behavior.
Commissioner Comerford - if you have not already ordered the demolition or granted a demo permit (hard to tell from this post - hmmmm) then deal with Savarino straight up and tell him to save what he can save, incorporate it into the project and partially demo the building before someone gets hurt. Then you should tell him to go get his project built.
Is the City self insured? What happens if someone gets hurt because of inaction here? Who pays? Taxpayers? Who is standing up for the public fisc here? Who is head of fire safety in the City? Why have we not heard from him/her? How do the police and fire department feel about this structure? How about the City inspectors who cited GLPF for violations and condemned the building? How do they feel about it?
What about David Franszyk? Where is he on this? Does he still feel this building should be saved at all costs?
Is this held up on the second floor of City Hall?
I don't know who's in the "cabal" you're referring to but let's take a look at the facts:
1. The Alternate View article on BRO was written by a Riverkeeper employee (unless his LinkedIn account is out of date).
2. The Riverkeepers sent a letter (http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121016/BUSINESS/121019394) that says: "“We would hope that the city would also work to encourage the developer to transfer ownership to an entity that can safely secure the property, rather than grant a demolition permit.”
Sounds like Riverkeepers are being a bit shady. Asking the City to push a sale to a different developer who would need a ton of public money to pull off their "plan" Since when can the City push a private sale like that? Talk about a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Those pictures dont look too bad. And if the floor was so rotten, how come people keep going in there to hang out. Sounds like the building is already being used in its current state and that the neighborhood would benefit most by simply restoring what is there.
I could take a picture of nearly any building in the city and convince you that it is a health and safety hazard that warrants an emergency demolition. That doesnt make it right.
The condition in the photos doesn't look too bad? Really? By your logic I could draw a picture of a building and tell tell you to simply build it (or restore it).
This thing is a tin can, filled with rubble. Preservation has its time and place -- and this is not it.
KNOCK. IT. DOWN.
There has been a polerferation of re-habs and preservation all over Buffalo now, and it's great that the city really gets it; albeit, this structure really could and under the circumstances should come down. The new build is quite appropiate for the location guaranteed will lead to continued in- fill of this sort in this area. Buffalo has the bones, the scenery and the history and with the urban renaissiance happening in Buffalo and many other urban settings in the country with the changing older demographics and hipster neighbourhoods; Buffalo is postioned to be a leader.
Knock it down!
I do like Savarino trying to incorporate part of the original structure and parts. I hope workers do give the building a good look over. From my experiences with Habitat for Humanity, they often find some interesting things in the walls and floors of these old buildings. Anything they can find and salvage is a bonus to this redevelopment.
Yes, and thank both the preservationists and Savarino for pushing for/considering that "incorporation".
Too many people (not you specifically, 'dude) are ready to hate on the pres'ists, but are SO ready to jump on the bandwagon for which we agitate.
Save the good timbers and anything else of value and build a bloody replica elsewhere. No need to impede progress over a bunch of splinters sitting in fairly close proximity to each other.
Haha
They are planning on leaving a section for the restored timbers. Interesting proposal.
Rumor has it that the Fat Lady is warming up her voice in a non-descript basement somewhere in the First Ward.
Hopefully the demolition permit gets approved without fail. It is time to demolish this hideous, decrepit freighthouse and buils something new and more refreshing on this prime Buffalo River site.
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Tear it down. Building new housing in addition to the rebuilding of Ohio St. and new parks will greatly increase the livability of this area.
Not everything can and should be saved. If preservations want to save something, put together a plan to save the Bethlehem Steel building and turn it into a Museum.