Dream or Nightmare: Stadium Complex Proposed for Outer Harbor

Needs to be bigger. Also cool lighting MUST be installed and be a major feature

I like the idea in concept - it works well for Cleveland. However, I can't read the story in The Buffalo News as they are now rationing their crap behind the pay firewall.

Exactly what about this would be a nightmare? Seems like it would be a dream come true

Love the concept! But parking and seating needs to be close to the 60,000 plus range

How about a mixed-used parking ramp facility

The NFTA metro rail MUST be extended to this location on the Outer Harbor!!!

Why would it need to be 60 k for seating? We sell out now 70 k seats and we suck not to mention we will be indoors and a much easier destination for our friends up north. We could easily sell 72k.

How does prime waterfront land enhance a stadium or casino or theater. They are indoor use.

Get rid of the municipal housing and put it in the first ward or eastside or have Buffalo buy Lackawanna and put it there.

If you have something like this...you don't put it on prime land...you put it nearby prime land so you can get a better price for the prime land. Same goes for canal side.

re: "it works in Cleveland". Not sure it does. I've always heard it referred to as The Mistake By The Lake. Don't have first hand experience one way or another, but . . .

What's the big attraction to placing a huge piece of infrastructure that gets used 10 days a year on our waterfront?

Why should we want to block access to the water with a huge old stadium and parking lot that sits empty 355 days a year? Why is going to a game (under a roof, no less!) somehow more enjoyable on the waterfront than it is over on the other side of the highway or on the other side of town? You're under a roof watching the big game! What the hell do you care about being on the waterfront?!

How 'bout we reserve the waterfront for people who could actually appreciate it when they're there? Does that sound reasonable? So if you're inside a mall or a stadium, that shouldn't qualify. You can do that activity anywhere those facilities are built; the water adds nothing to their function or attraction.

Did I say it only gets used 10 days a year? Oh, yeah: this stadium will feature concerts. Lots of them, no doubt. And the ones it does book won't be taking those concerts away from other local venues. No siree.

Listen: We don't get more concerts because we don't have the stadium? Wrong answer. Right answer: we don't have the market. We get fewer big name concerts than we used to because Buffalo is an increasingly irrelevant city on the big name tour map. And there's the downtown ballpark, and the arena in addition to the Ralph (used to be lots of concerts there). If there were a crying need for concert venues, why do those sit mostly empty?

"Company President Nicholas J. Stracick and Vice President George F. Hasiotis acknowledged to The Buffalo News that they have yet to line up political support, or reach out to the Bills"

So this is still in the Bass Pro, Adelphi, Bashar Issa bull**** scheme phase.

Like the idea of a new stadium, but the location is not a good one. Ever been to the small boat harbor in January? Ever driven thru whiteouts down rte5? One lake effects storm during a game, and Buffalo's reputation will be shot for another 50 years. I say put the stadium somewhere else like next to I190 between Larkin and Downtown. Save the outer harbor for outdoor recreation.

Shouldn't we make sure that we will have a team in five years first?

This sounds REALLY pie-in-the-sky. And, I agree with others--does not need to clutter the waterfront.

re: "it works in Cleveland". Not sure it does. I've always heard it referred to as The Mistake By The Lake. Don't have first hand experience one way or another, but . . .

What's the big attraction to placing a huge piece of infrastructure that gets used 10 days a year on our waterfront?

The Mistake on the Lake did not refer to the stadium. Muni was there, the new stadium is there on the same footprint.

From a football standpoint, cold weather teams have an advantage.

Also, who said this would be single use? Remember the stadium concerts in the 70s - 90s? Bring HS, college games downtown.

We're talking unused land now and bringing vibrancy and in close proximity to downtown. Think big and long term.

Why are people so hell bent on a waterfront full of bike paths and gardens?? Everyone speaks so highly of the Baltimore waterfront and the Cleveland waterfront, both of which stress restaurants, bars and entertainment venues! Just like a snowstorm will cause problems here, how often in January are people likely to go for a jog or bike ride on the outer harbor?

We need a mass of residential and entertainment venues to get the city going, not paved lanes and flower beds!!

Not the worst idea ever. There is a lot of space on the outer harbor with not a lot of program to fill it. Honestly we can only have so many parks. As along as they provide a nice berth for public access around this on the water's edge it would be nice to shield and hide the stupid raised highway a bit.

It is a shame there isn't a better place on the other side of the route 5, it is a tall enough building it would be nice ot have it overlooking the lake but not ON the lake.

It would also need to come with a comprehensive change to our transportation system down there. It can't and shouldn't have all the parking that is currently needed. I like how all the work done with Fuhrmann is just plastered over with parking or at least what I assume is parking (tan fields).

New bridges that connect and integrate the city to the waterfront will be necessary to assure options for both vehicular, bus and train access. Otherwise you basically have one road in and one road out, which a recipe for disaster.

Also remember there is NO way to get from the 190 north onto the skyway or route 5 currently without existing onto a local road part of the reason there was the proposed route 5 connector.

Stadiumagon?

See Cincinnati's riverfront stadiums.

Fix up the Ralph and call it a day. Though I am increasingly apathetic about the bills staying in buffalo anyway. It seems like our players are lacking in pride and drive playing for buffalo, no? 13 years of losing seasons? Blah. I want a winning team, not decades of less than mediocrity. Something's in the water.

I didn't see any bike racks in the plan

I was just reading about the stadium in Arizona that they played in two weeks ago. It's brand new, looks pretty futuristic, has retractable roof and only cost 450 million (or 550 million in today's dollars the article mentioned). 1.4 billion is a lot. I am sure we could get the price down a bit and get just as amazing of a stadium.

Anything is better than spending 200 million on the Ralph. There was a an article I read recently where they interviewed the architect who designed the Ralph. He said it originally cost about 200,000 to build and he thinks it is insane that they would try to add 200 million in improvements tot he structure.

if ralph wilson gave even the smallest hint that he has arranged for the team to stay in buffalo after his demise, that'd be one thing. but he hasn't. bills fans should read up on their elizabeth kubler-ross because a whole lotta grief is coming your way.

FAIL!!!

If you talk to people that actually attend Bills games you would find out that those people want the stadium left right where it is. What they want is better bathrooms, smaller concession lines, and better TV's when they are waiting in those concession lines. The atmosphere at the Ralph is what brings people there and there is no way that it will be duplicated in a new location. The economics of building a new stadium will not allow it. In 1996 the Sabres moved a football field away from the Aud and you will not find a single person that says the games are as exciting in the new arena as they were back in the Aud days. The same will happen if you try to move the Bills. Bill Polian was just interviewed about replacing the Ralph and he laughed at the notion. He said the Ralph was becoming iconic and had some of the best sight lines of any stadium in football. This is the kind of stuff you here from people that, ya know, actually go to the Ralph.

Dallas went from a run down old stadium to their mega palace and it is now being considered a home disadvantage. The Cowboys record in the place stinks. What's missing? Atmosphere. The place is too damn big, the TV is too big, and they priced out the guy that actually cared about the team and would come to the game and be loud out and replaced him with corporate types and other rich people that are there to be seen.

Love the concept! JUST LET IT BE BUILT WITH PRIVATE FUNDING!

why even report this? There is no shot, and the location is awful for a stadium and or convention center...There are only 3 ways in and out, one being the skyway which is closed and a death trap when there is snow or wind...People who come in for conventions want to be near restaurants and nightlife or at least more than a lobby bar at a hotel...
what a bad idea....o and the biggest part...1.4 billion...why would we spend 1.4 billion on a stadium and convention center anyway....our team sucks and we get 3rd tier conventions...We can never compete with 1st and even 2nd tier convention cities.......I can tell you that the company I work for and the industry would never move their 3k to 6k conventions from Las Vegas and San Diego, Floridam Denver, Phoenix to Buffalo...

ABSOLUTE DREAM, WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!!

where the heck can i tailgate?

Why pump so much money into a facility if we dont even know if the Bills are staying put? This massive project will end up costing the taxpayers and likely make buying tickets to games more expensive. Last I checked the Buffalo area wasnt exactly affluent and the price of this is 1.4 BILLION! Im no anti government anti tax extremist BUT the taxes in WNY are way too high in comparison to other areas and its a competitive disadvantage. I was shocked when I heard of a tax hike coming in Erie County considering how expensive the area is already. Something needs to change in the philosophy where we just charge more. So many layers of government and different interests in WNY, something needs to be made more efficient so the term tax cut can actually be used from time to time. Instead of pumping so many public dollars into a stadium, why not cut some of the tax rates in the area? Ultimately the costs just keep tricking down to the citizens and consumer.

I have a feeling if a stadium moves to this location, the tailgating that has made going to the games actually bearable the last 12 years will not be the same. We put an aweful lot of money and time in a sports team, an aweful lot. Yeah, a new stadium is flashy and sexy but after a few years if the organization keeps going as it has (if it even sticks around) you can bet the stadium will end up half empty. Buffalo used to pack the baseball stadium downtown when it was new and sexy. Sadly, not so much anymore.

I dont understand the rationale behind decentralizing downtown activities as in the convention center as downtown Buffalo is not exactly bursting at the seams. So you build a new convention center on the outer harbor? Where do out of towners go and what do they do once they walk out of that building? What development is there to frequent? What historic resources are there? How do convention guests get to downtown from this location? Seems to me that the NFTA would have to absolutely 100000% extend metro rail service out there. Ive always thought that was necessary regardless but will it happen? If not whats the option to connect this facility that is essentially an island with not alot else around, to downtown? Force people to drive into downtown? Taxis and buses to hotels in the downtown core? Can Buffalo afford to push visitors further away from its existing hotels and all the new rooms in the core area? I thought we were trying to promote walkability and spur the downtown market? Buffalo needs a new convention center but I dont think this location works without a much clearer larger plan and timeline. If you set up a significant new center and you dont have the amenities built in around it from the get go, you can bet the negative experiences of visitors will spread like wildfire and soon you wont need a big convention center because nobody will go. HSBC arena got enough negative press from the world juniors on bad experiences in proximity to the arena because lets face it, not alot around its front door.

A retractable-roof stadium, on the water? With a convention center element? What's next, opening Main St. to traffic?

Oh, wait.

Proposed location sucks. It's far too isolated. Ideal spot for a new stadium would be right over the top of the Perry projects. You can have parking lots that can be shared for Bills and Sabres games so as to maximize the utilization. Also, it'd be a great sports complex for the city with the arena, stadium and baseball field all located in the same vicinity.

Adding a convention center to the outer harbor without having any commerical, retail, restaurants around it would just make it an island. What the outer harbor needs is a dedicated public space along the shoreline, followed by marinas, residential units, restaurants, hotels and retail space.

The terrible location aside, why do people insist on handing free money over to Ralph Wilson who can't even give us a playoff team let alone guarantee there will be a team in a few years? The idea of giving one of the most profitable losing teams in the NFL $200 mill in public money for stadium improvements is sickening enough and now people propose $1.4 billion for a new stadium that will hold our waterfront hostage for decades?

If the city is involved does that mean the Hatch restaurant will get exclusive hotdog vending rights at the stadium?

A lesson from other cities: Only build things on a waterfront that need to be on a waterfront. Otherwise build it somewhere else. Nice stadium, ridiculous price tag, foolish locale--a developer's dream. Put it somewhere else near downtown. Use the waterfront for public space.

Anyone who thinks a new stadium or convention center is a good idea should read the articles published in Artvoice

http://gse.buffalo.edu/fas/bromley/ccs/

Excellent articles that helped save our county hundreds of millions of dollars, and saved a large part of downtown Buffalo. Sure, there is nothing to "save" now at the Outer Harbor; except for all the much better uses that could be on that land, and will be as our city grows.

If a good contract with the Bills is obtained, updating the present stadium is a much better idea.

Tear down the Perry projects. Lose an outdated housing project and have prime access to the 190. As well as lots of parking from the First Niagara Center, light rail access and tons of people in the cobblestone district and inner harbor!

The safe investment of improving the Ralph leads to the surest path that the team leaves town once the owner passes. Great site lines/football environment don't drive the decisions of NFL owners. The stadium in Orchard Park will be singled out as proof that the area can't keep up, and that it's a drag on revenues for the other 31 teams.

At some point someone will present an idea that should be advanced. Too bad there can't be some grand bargain struck between the 'i-like-shiny-new' crowd and the 'that-might-be-original-to-the-canal' crowd. Here, you can have your new stadium, but here's a list of twenty properties we'd like to see 'protected'.

It's easy to call this plan foolish, and it may be, but that's probably what the 'shiny new' advocates said about rehabbing the Lafayette. Sometimes it's good when the fool's right.

The roads surrounding there would need serious work to handle the traffic. Higgins will be happy cause this could help get the skyway removed. A bridge or two would need to be built to connect the inner and outer harbor. They could make up some of the parking in the lots near the arena.

Locations sounds interesting in idea but I feel it wouldn't work or happen. I like the sound of a stadium with a retractable roof. My dad for example avoids the november and december games because of the weather.

Imagine one day- Super Bowl, Buffalo, NY (don't care if the Bills are in it)

Downtown needs a lot of work but 10 years from now, who knows.

Updating the stadium (again) ranks up there with dumping millions of dollars into Skyway maintenance which lacks even more justification after this morning's news:

http://buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121023/CITYANDREGION/121029687/1002

I digress...

They'll need that retractable roof for the flying fish! :P

I like the concept but the location is terrible. It ought to be on Kelly Island after all the crappy silos come down and the roads reworked. That strip of the Outer Harbor shopuld be parkland and a beach.

This is a horrible and financially unfeasible idea. The Buffalo Bills belong in their current playpen in Orchard Park, not downtown and not on our waterfront. We have been struggling to get the water's edge open to the public for countless years and now this costly, unneeded architectural monstrosity could block out all that access for a lousy performing NFL team that most likely will not be around here much longer. They will be in Los Angeles before we know it. Why should the taxpayers finance this development, let the NFL and the Bufflao Bills organization fund it out of their own pocketbooks. This corporate socialism must stop. As for the convention center idea with this proposal, it is totally unneeded. Convention centers are not the economic catalysts that they are falsely touted to be. This is just dead space for much of the year and a gigantic waste of taxpayers hard earned money. These fly by night wealthy guys proposing this idiocy should be told to hit the road and get lost. It is bad enough that ol' Ralph is asking for $240 million to renovate the Orchard Park football stadium. Now these damn fools want to spends hundreds of millions more over a shitty, miserable football team that is an embarrassment to our great city. I don't think so. I can find several better and productive things to do with those hundreds of millions of dollars than waste them on the Buffalo Bills. We could demolish and clear out all the abandoned, decaying houses throughout the City of Buffalo with this money and still have millions left over.

How could this be a bad thing. Let them build it! Or atleast plan it.

Nothing is going to happen until Ralph dies, but it will be nice to have something in the can to start with.

benfranklin gets it - renovating Ralph will lead to the end of the Buffalo Bills in WNY.

Sinking $200+ Million into the existing stadium does NOTHING for WNY.

Also, wait and see what the Concrete study currently under way states - word is the cost for repair the crubmling concrete could escalate to $600 Million. That changes the story completeley; hence why there is a delay in the lease negotations.

None of this will ever ever happen but...

Tear down the Perrys and put it in the Ward.
Think of every possible use for this place so we don't get stuck using this billion dollar building 10x a year.
If UB ever gets good have them play a few games there.
International soccer friendlies- those matches rake in tons of cash for European clubs so they love to play them. Lots of expats in the GTA would love to come down to see their clubs play. Get the US MNT to play matches there (USA- Canada derby anyone?)
Incorporate this project into a larger overhaul of our transportation infrastructure. Think access to the metro, amtrak, megabus, etc. Make it a catalyst for either light rail expansion or more reasonably for a Buffalo budget- bus rapid transit.
Again none of this will happen when we have a quarterback who can't aim and a defense that can't tackle or stop a 3rd down.
Go Bills.

i think we need low income housing on the water front, because that is smart !!!!!

Spending millions on a new football stadium will also do nothing for WNY except cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars paying for a gigantic architectural white elephant that will only be used part of the year. You guys need to wake up and smell the coffee. We don't need an NFL stadium downtown and we can't afford it. Lets kill dead this costly ridiculous stadium-convention center idea. The Bills will most likely be moving to Los Angeles anyways because of a huge marketplace there. We are a small, declining marketplace unfortunately.

Throwing it out there, downvote me upvote me whatever, simply putting it out there:

Central Terminal. Renovate it into hotel/strong museum/major hub for new public transportation/giant stadium.

All art-deco, kind of like Soldier Field but with giant tower right next to it. Main terminal would be entrance to new stadium. TONS OF LAND surrounding it, but I have no further ideas. Just a fun to think about

great idea but the location is not ideal even with a retractable roof. being right on the water in the freezing snowy windy winters will definitely steer people away. especially since the only way to get over there is the skyway which is awful in all weather conditions. I can't imagine that being backed up all the way down elmwood for people waiting to get in for a game let alone if their is an accident. not saying that the stadium is in a great place now in snow central but there is at least more then one way out. move the stadium downtown what about in some of that old industrial area or near the old south ward. it has done wonders for larkin.

I absolutely love the idea. But it's literally just that -- an idea. This article would be appropriately titled if its headline read: "Putting the cart before the horse -- BIG TIME"

I am willing to bet this project was shown to possible new ownership before it was released to the media. Simple fact is if there are no plans outside of playing at the Ralph the Bills future is in serious trouble.

This whole idea that a sports stadium will spur economic development in the surrounding neighborhoods is horribly flawed. When the downtown AAA baseball stadium opened in 1988, did retail stores, office towers, and hotels sprout up nearby in the vicinity of Main between Seneca and Swan Streets? When the First Niagara Center opened in the late 1990s, did retail stores, office towers, and hotels sprout up around it? The answer to both is no. So lets stop believing all the fairy tales that this football stadium-convention center monstrosity will spur reinvestment and redevelopment of the surrounding environs. It isn't going to happen. This is a classic putting the cart before the horse scenario that we are repeating over and over again with no positive economic benefits to WNY. Just more costly bonds and higher taxes to finance this idiocy.

To upgrade the plan.

Instead of building a convention center, build a large metro rail terminal. Put the new stadium brand on the metro rail infrastructure. Take the operations from the dw&l into a modern building. Use that property as an expanded boardwalk.

I like the design but below the roof could use a bit more of a flowing movement.

There are better locations for a sports museum and hotel

For the love of God... UB will NOT play in a new NFL stadium. They won't. Move on from that idea. They drew a whopping ~17,000 to see them play a BCS opponent last weekend. They can't sell out their current on-campus 29,000 seat stadium, what makes you think they'll fill a new off-campus 70,000 seat stadium? Just stop.

I've really never liked the idea of a waterfront stadium in Buffalo because, as so many others have pointed out, it's too far away from the downtown. This whole plan wreaks of the Central Terminal, in that it's "too late and too far." Parking is a big issue here, as there simply isn't enough to go around, either in the proposal or in the vicinity. In order to keep the tailgating culture alive,you'd need at least 20,000 spaces. There's not nearly enough room on the waterfront to accommodate all the cars. I'd rather see it built in the riverbend area, sandwiched between South Park Avenue and Tifft Street, allowing better highway access, more parking on the vacant land across the river, and cheaper Metro Rail extension along the abandoned First Ward rail corridor. We need a new stadium, and perhaps a new convention center, but the waterfront isn't the place for it.

This is a bad idea for many reasons. First, is that it is crazy to spend this kind of public money on entertainment. Having the Bills downtown is not going to help the city get permanent good-paying jobs or help us compete in a global economy. The NFL makes ridiculous amounts of money. Let the NFL and the Bills pay for it. If you insist on committing public funds on the bread and circus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses, the Bills should make an absolute commitment to Buffalo to stay during the entire term of the lease.

Second, as far as location, Bini makes great points. There are no synergies between a waterfront location and a stadium where people go indoors. Makes no more sense than putting a big box store on this site. Whether or not Cleveland's stadium works well, at least it is within a reasonable walk to R&R HOF, Great Lakes Science Center and bars/restaurants.

Last, the arguments made by Up and Coming about economic activity generated by a stadium/convention center at this location are not persuasive IMO. Convention business is way down and is extremely competitive among much more "popular" tourist destinations. The Wall Street Journal recently had an article on cut-throat convention business. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444657804578049103969814398.html This location is too far away without spending more to have NFTA provide bus service. I don't expect any increased usage of a new stadium by college and HS football teams who have their own fields, which are a lot more intimate and less costly to run and attend. Also, I'm not willing to bet the kind of money talked about that some new Sports Museum is going to generate lots of new traffic.

This idea/location is a FAIL.

I'm a teeny bit ambivalent on this because a) I don't know enough to argue it b) I like the idea of a new stadium and the Bills in the city.

However....
From the BN live blog pertaining to the presentation at City Hall:
"Jill Terreri:
'I'm confident if we build this facility, we will have a Super Bowl.' "

Never. Ever. Happen.

Detroit was a hard sell, and the logistics of that were much better than our scenario.

Anyone have insight into NFL requirements for # of hotel rooms and how we would size up, with the coming additions included?

just hope they keep Rochester Bills fans in mind... easy access from NYS thruway to parking... maybe where ever that parking ends up or a good chunk of it- should have a modern day monorail system from the parking directly to the stadium! that would make it NYS accessible to the max and keep it sustainable for all functions for a long time!
and anyone who thinks this is NOT worth the tax dollars... just do the simple math on the salaries of ALL the Buffalo Bills players and people working for the Bills and how much they contribute to the NYS tax base. Mario Williams $100 million dollar long term salary alone if taxed at the NYS income tax rate of 9% contributes $9 million alone to the tax base.
that said, the stadium is paid for by simply having a team here and NYS taxing their payroll when you add it all up!

Here's a little excerpt from the Buffalo News article....

"Hasiotis said that it was premature to talk about financing a stadium but that based on other stadium projects across the country, it was reasonable to expect the State of New York to pay about $400 million, the NFL $200 million to $400 million and hundreds of millions from construction trades since 10,000 construction jobs were expected to be generated, he said."

I'd like to see the Perry Projects torn down and have the stadium placed there, near casino and would help transform that blighted neighborhood close to downtown. I would think there would be more than enough room there for parking. Either way it makes more sense to build a new stadium and have it in the city, than to renovate the Ralph. Buffalo is a sports town and if Indy can host a Superbowl, than so can Buffalo.

Nightmare. What a waste of waterfront property! If you're not going to use the view, don't obscure it for others. Enjoy the waterfront at the waterfront. You can put a stadium elsewhere where there's no view.

Some of you guys are ridiculous! How many people actually come to the waterfront in the summer let alone the winter! If I'm a tourist and I want to see the great lakes, I'll go to Toronto or Chicago where they actually have attractions! Building cute little bike paths and cafes is great and all but it won't ever change anything!

This will! People will actually come to Bills games during the winter from out of town! Regardless of how bad! Hotels will be occupied! Bars will be filled! Isn't that what you want?! You'd be downright ignorant to think that "leaving the waterfront open" is honestly a better idea than funding an attraction that can make millions for the county! If you're going off the tax argument that's a different story.

Half the people commenting on this story are the reasonswhy nothing gets done in this city. Its amazing how negative people can be.

This proposal is amazing...and yes its very early in the planning stages, but everything needs to start somewhere. Do any of the haters have any better ideas, because I don't see any, I just see a bunch of negative nellies that want this city to keep wasting away to nothing.

As for tax dollars...our tax dollars have been wasted for years on that piece of crap stadium in OP and they are about to throw another 200-300 million at it for renovations that will last 15 years tops and it gets used 10 times a year.

This could be 400 million in tax payer $ and be a multi use facilty that could be used hundreds of times a year.

As for the location...has anyone ever been to Foxboro, MA, home of the New England Patrions. Talk about the middle of nowhere, the stadium sat on land similiar to that of RWS, but just one road in and one road out. The old stadium was torn down for the new Gilette Stadium and the entire area now known as "Patriot Place" is home to 1.3 million square feet of hotels, resturants and entertainment. Amazing what a vision can do.

Exactly the reason why nothing ever changes in Buffalo is evident in the comments here. No one wants anything new and most want everything old and dilapidated to be "preserved." It's quite disgusting. You have no signature Peace Bridge because they wanted to knock a few houses down. You have no 23 story Casino hotel tower downtown because people lawsuited it into a subpar facility which pretty much fits the Buffalo mold. NOW - you want to strike down a world class 1.4 BILLION dollar proposal on the waterfront, which by the way sucks in Buffalo, that would be the envy of much larger market cities, that would draw millions a year in sports fans, concerts, conventions and festivals? You may as well close the doors to the city if you want to turn down this once in a generation opportunity.

Not sure if people have seen the entire presentation:

http://blogs.artvoice.com/avdaily/2012/10/23/downtown-stadium-proposed-for-buffalo-bills-images-and-presentation/

This is a dream come true for the City of Buffalo in my opinion. The visiion is huge and would have an enormous impact.

@ Sabres77 - WOW. Seriously - wow. How can people say it is too far from downtown, it is right there! Amazing if this were to come to fruition. If Buffalo wants to be a credible player in the NFL market, conventions, concerts, etc etc - this is it. Aren't you all tired of seeing things like this slated for Toronto all the time?

Even if you don't like the stadium, check out this slide from the artvoice post.

http://blogs.artvoice.com/avdaily/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BuffaloStadium5.pdf?9d7bd4

The idea of extending the streets from downtown out the outer harbor is genius. Stadium or not, this would be a great idea to develop the area and make it more accessible.

Cant we build the plantagon instead

It certainly is a dream.

One that's a nightmare for not being built directly across from canal side.

The harbor is a large investment in brand and the potential interaction and services would really wake the city up. The dreamchitects should be striving for a balance of idea and new experience.

Thanks for the art voice link.

The design takes the location in mind and has certain aspects that remind me of a sail boat.

Wow the full project design is quite the ticket. I like the stadium and the fact that they plan on turning the property around. There was this grand outer harbor plan with canals a a few years ago. It would be nice to borrow a few ideas from that. The bridges were a welcoming sign. I'd still like to see the plan create a metro rail station and water taxis like they do at the Dubai mall. A football stadium can bring a lot of interest but I am hoping to see some continuity between projects and oppertunity. One of those development blocks could be bass pro. I really enjoyed their last design that was on the waters edge.

Issa flashbacks! Get yer Bashar Issa flashbacks right here!
http://archives.buffalorising.com/story/pitching_downtown_in_a_differe

I'll take a 1.4 bil. $ stadium with a cleaned administration, fresh ownership and beautiful downtown stadium. Tastes like chicken

I'd think the outer harbor would be an awful site for a stadium, for reasons many comments have brought up already.

Regarding Cleveland, btw - their stadium site is unlike the outer harbor here in that it's in walking distance to their downtown.
aerial view here http://binged.it/PoW0Hr
That highway 2 near it is elevated.

Anyhow, it should matter much less what any of us think is best compared to what a future owner might want or not want.
Maybe the next owner will like the outer harbor idea despite its flaws, or maybe would want somewhere else in the city, or maybe to stay in Orchard Park, or somewhere near Niagara Falls, or somewhere closer to Rochester like Batavia, … lots of possibilities.

For a goal of the team staying in WNY, it would be very counter productive at this point to try forcing anything about this. Any wrong choices now about a future stadium's location or other details might cause somebody who'd otherwise bid for the team to not do so when the time arrives.

Also, public funding sounds like a bad idea for this - especially a huge amount like the $400M these people are saying they'd want from NY state taxpayers. The new stadium for the Jets/Giants was 100% privately funded. I'd say zero public funding should be provided for a Bills stadium, but if any is then it should be a small enough amount that it can be fully reimbursed within say 5 years by extra surcharges on tickets, parking, concessions, advertising, naming rights, etc.

Take it or leave it, there's something to be said about Buffalo's pessimism. This is why we can't have nice things.

Don't understand using valuable waterfront for a stadium. The constricted traffic would be a nightmare, the wind brutal. Should be on east side of downtown where it could transform crumbling neighborhoods and access the 190 E&W, Rt. 33 & Rt. 5, and public transportation.

Sounds like the NFTA's last stab at being relevant on this land.

Can someone please explain why Rocco Termini is even getting involved with this issue and suggesting that the Bills play their games in Hamilton, Ontario? Build a practice facility/convention center and a new stadium in Hamilton?

Why is Termini even talking to the Mayor of Hamilton about this? The GUY DOESN'T EVEN OWN THE DAMN team.

http://www.thespec.com/sports/local/article/822875--developer-proposes-locating-bills-in-hamilton

"Termini told Daybreak he had been contacted by Hamilton Mayor Bob Bratina and that he was interested in the idea. Bratina confirmed he contacted Termini after hearing about the story being on the Buffalo morning newscast. He did not offer the developer any commitments.

“We had an interesting and pleasant conversation, but I would apply the term ‘Blue sky’ to this kind of proposal since there are no details regarding site, financing, interest by the Bills, et cetera,” Bratina said in a statement. “I do have confirmation, though, that the Anchor Bar is opening a franchise in downtown Hamilton early next year.”

Bratina said, as mayor of Hamilton and a former football reporter, his interest and focus is “obviously” on the sustainability of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the Canadian Football League."

How is it that a city of comparable size with out a sports team could ever survive these days? Case in point Richmond Va. has experienced a 14% growth in population in the past couple years while we are still in a slight decline. We focus on issues such as how can we pander more to a 700 million dollar corporate entity such as the Bills who barely seem to show interest in remaining in this town. They however get to focus more on economic issues such job creation and attracting new business. I would bet that we do make a marginal profit in this region during those 8 games that bring thousands of Rochester and Canadian residents to town, but I am sure we have better uses for our tax dollar.

Is the hotel considered in the $1.4 Billion? If so, you can prob take out $50 mill from that asking price

I went to over 100 games in the Aud. I'm nostalgic about the venue and games I saw there. There were a ton of obstructed view seats and the orange section was steep with lousy sight lines.  FNC is a gorgeous building and superior to the Aud in EVERY way.

It was built for 180 million in 1996 dollars. What's that, 300 million today? That's for a 19k seat hockey arena.

We're talking at 70k seat, retractable roof football stadium, convention center combo. 1.4 billion sounds like a lot but in context I think it's appropriate.

Trending Buffalo has a really great photo gallery [http://www.trendingbuffalo.com/waterfront-stadium-proposal-pictures/] whet it shows this project in maps of Buffalo. There's one where they show Coca Cola Field, FNC and this new stadium in a straight line. It looks really cool. It also shows a rebuilt Route 5, expanded Rapid Transit and 3 new bridges. Access was taken into account and wouldn't be a problem. It's close enough to be part of Canal Side yet far enough to give it breathing room.

When I first read the News article I was skeptical, but I'm coming around. After its up we can tear down the convention center and restore Gennessee St.

The total cost the retractable roof stadium in Indianapolis,Lucas Oil Stadium, was $720 million. How come this one is twice as much? Marion County has raised taxes for food and beverage sales, auto rental taxes, innkeeper's taxes, and admission taxes for its share of the costs.

The stadium will be perfect...

when it's built on Ontario Place.

Smell you later, Buffalo.

Not having any public funding is a pipe dream. @whatever the Jets/Giants stadium has two teams with two billionaire owners/groups on top being near NYC and having tons of companies that want to be a part of it. I would love to know what the luxury boxes went for. That's part of what we lack.

We don't know if the Bills will be here in the long term but I feel like throwing $200 million+, and it will cost much more than 200 million, at the Ralph so 10-15 years from now we're looking at the same problem and the costs to build a new stadium are closer to 2 billion.

I'm not saying this is the right one with the parking and roadway issues but a new stadium is a necessity.

I've always wondered why the rail line from TO-NF-Buf has never figured into the site selection. Could a site near the NF Air Base or just east of the South Grand Island Bridge in Tonawanda be used? You can follow the rail line on Google Maps to snoop out potential sites. I would think a quick rail trip would entice many more Canadians vs having to fight game day traffic/bridge crossings/etc.

What about building a new stadium where the Fort Erie racetrack is right now. It's still closing right and it would be closer to Buffalo. Just my two cents.

The New York Islanders announced they are moving the team to Brooklyn.

Perhaps, the Bills should move to Nassau Coliseum in Long Island. The odds of that happening would be about the same as a billion-dollar stadium on Buffalo's waterfront or Hamilton or Fort Erie.

If we are at the mercy of one man's decision, we could potentially end up with 3 under-utilized stadiums for a city that is half vacant, We'll become famous for something other than snow!

Has anyone seen Ralph Wilson out in public in the last year ? Woulkdnt it make sense to ask him what his plans are ?

Anybody know what would happen to Rich Stadium when they move. Would only the high schools play there ?

The NFL has a contract with the NFLPA that allows the league to play 20 regular season games per season.
So now it's 10 home games per season if Toronto doesn't get a game.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20121028/SPORTS0103/310280035/Leo-Roth-Buffalo-Bills-aren-t-only-beneficiaries-new-stadium-built?odyssey=nav%7Chead

Beautiful, however, kinda thinking it would be much more interesting and profitable if the hotel, retail, restaurants and condos would be combined as one facility, providing annual traffic, revenue and a great waterfront and entertainment experience for condo owners and hotel guest.

The Buffalo Bills football stadium rightfully belongs in the suburbs period. It does not belong in the city especially the downtown and waterfront areas. We don't need another underutilized, costly architectural monstrosity in the city of Buffalo. The Bills belong in Orchard Park, let them stay there or they can do all us overtaxed Western New Yorkers a long overdue favor, move to Los Angeles or even to Mexico City for all I care.