City October 13, 2012 1:08 PM

Albright-Knox Art Gallery Engages Snøhetta to Develop Master Plan for Growth

Albright-Knox Art Gallery Engages Snøhetta to Develop Master Plan for Growth
The Albright-Knox Art Gallery has announced that it is moving forward with developing a Master Plan for Growth. In doing so, the gallery is entering into a partnership with the international architecture, landscape, and interiors collaborative SnØhetta* (led by Founding Partner Craig Dykers). In coming months the focus will be to identify short-term space needs, while determining whether an expansion is in the gallery's future. "Space needs are one of the most critical issues facing the Gallery today," said Leslie Zemsky, President of the Board of Directors of the Albright-Knox Art Gallery. "Our Collection has grown significantly since our last expansion in 1962, and we urgently need to examine how our existing space is used to display, store, and conserve the Collection, and to optimize our facilities to provide an enhanced experience for our visitors," Zemsky added. 

The idea of a gallery expansion has been floated before, fueled by architectural renderings showing both on and off-campus visions (see here). Operational logistics would make an off-site expansion a heavy lift, while usable space on the existing campus is extremely limited. Louis P. Ciminelli, Board Member and Chair of the Gallery's Long-range Space Planning Committee, noted, "We need to explore what an expansion of our facilities might look like in the future. Given the history of our iconic buildings, and their setting within the historic landscape of the Olmsted Park, we are pleased to be working with a team of architects that has a strong reputation for creating a fluid dialogue between landscape and architecture. SnØhetta will bring its expertise in this arena to the project, and we anticipate that our partnership will generate great things for the Albright-Knox and for the City of Buffalo. As our process moves along, we look forward to sharing the vision with our friends and cultural partners in the neighborhood."

*SnØhetta is an award-winning architecture, landscape, and interiors collaborative formed in Oslo, Norway, in 1989. In 2004, SnØhetta established an office in Manhattan. The collaborative has executed acclaimed projects internationally, including the Oslo Opera House, Norway; the Wolfe Center for the Arts, Bowling Green, Ohio; the expansion of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, California; the redesign of Times Square, New York; and Ryerson University Student Learning Centre, Toronto, Canada. 

Photo: Joe Cascio
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I wonder how big the expansion will be. I would love to see a large museum in Buffalo that takes all day to see everything. Its already is a large museum that takes 1-3 hours to properly see everything. A larger museum also usually means repeat visits from those who feel they didn't get to see everything.

I am also wondering what style they will go with. The modern style like the last expansion, or a continuation of the Roman-Greco theme, or maybe something else all together?

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Put the history museum on the second floor of the main library downtown, which is vacant. That frees up the current building for use as a new Albright Knox gallery space.

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BECHS has over 100,000 items, including a helicopter, in its collection. You want to relegate it all to the second floor of a library?

BECHS is long overdue for a master plan of its own.

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i was thinking that if the akag commissions an entirely new facility, then bechs could move into the old albright. the second floor of the downtown library would hold, what, maybe 10% of the bechs collection?

replied to PaulBuffalo
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BECHS could use its helicopter to ferry ppl b&f between Hoyt Lake location & DT.

replied to grad94
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Why should/would the Albright-Knox leave their current location? This museum, unlike many other art museums, is wonderful for the filtered light that pervades most of the individual gallery spaces. I hope the design doesn't turn this place into a dark bunker.

replied to grad94
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More ideally, we would merge the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society and the Buffalo & Erie County Public Library. Merge the organizations and resources to build a better institution with a broader mission.

The Mark Twain exhibit at the library would compliment the historical society exhibits. I would bet that the second floor of the library is more square footage than the current BECHS building, which if I'm not mistaken is only about 30,000 sq ft.

The Pan Am building would make for an eminently suitable expansion gallery for the Albright Knox. I don't think they could build a more stately space with a more fitting architecture for the institution.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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if the library can't get the county funding it needs to adequately run a library, then adding another million dollar mouth to feed isn't going to pry open the county pocketbook.

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Well, we would be merging two organizations (BECHS and BECPL), with their respective budgets and resources.

Combine that with the fact that books are becoming obsolete and content is becoming increasingly digital -- which will enormously reduce operating overhead, specifically related to inventory holding costs.

Since the space is available at the library, and since the library will need a new mission as its delivery model is becoming increasingly obsolete, this can be done while enjoying significant cost savings for the taxpayer.

replied to grad94
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More ideally, we would merge the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society and the Buffalo & Erie County Public Library. Merge the organizations and resources to build a better institution with a broader mission.

You've been reading too many of ChristieLou's brilliant posts.

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I think the science museum also is in need of expansion. I also think they should change their name to: the science, human, and natural history museum to better reflect the contents on display. That or split the museum up to reflect it broad and eclectic collection.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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I don't think that's a terrible idea, having AK take over BECHS's building. Judging by the down votes it's not popular, but it's not a bad suggestion. I'll bet the 2nd floor of the library has double or triple the space of their current place. Or put them on the second floor of the train terminal Canalside. That's 75k', could make a cool historical museum, right in the stream of visitors. Mind you I like the current location because it's around the corner. But relocating them and expanding the AK in its place doesn't seem a bad idea to me.

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Which second floor of the Downtown Library are you referring to? There are only three floors open to the general public, but over 75% of the books are stored in the stacks levels sandwiched atop and between each of the public floors. The 'Main Floor' is actually the third of six floors to the building (seven if you include the auditorium under the plaza in front of Lafayette Square). Most people come and go without realizing that they're able to visit less than half of the building.

While it may seem convenient to swap out the library, gallery and history museums, each was specifically designed for the collection it houses. The Library has too many sun-lit reading rooms to display art or historical treasures without damaging them. Neither the AK nor the BECHS have the facilities or dumbwaiter system to store and move books around. The History Museum is a big building but it would be a nightmare to arrange it in a way that provides anywhere near the necessary wall space for displays. I believe both the AK and BECHS have considerable workspace which is already dedicated to the restoration and preservation of their collections. Working on a painting or sculpture is a much different task than preserving records and documents.

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I doubt that the modifications to any one of the buildings would cost more than building a new expansion to AK.

Which brings up an important question....

Will taxpayers be funding this expansion, or will the gallery self finance?

The answer to that question may determine which path the institution takes.

Though with Zemskys chairing both the AK, NFTA, and Regional Development Council, I would expect nothing less than 100% taxpayer funding.

replied to DeanerPPX
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In general, I like the Knox regardless of their controversial transformation over the last few years. But their hours are atrocious. Open past 5PM once a month?

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Originally the Albright School was an Art School connected with the Gallery. My grandfather went there, and I wish that could be connected in future planning a return. It would make the gallery even more of a destination.

Architecturally, space is limited, and vertical growth would not gel with the neighborhood or the park setting.

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Awesome!

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Finally! After all these years, it would be nice to see a well-executed expansion which allows temporary exhibitions that don't sacrifice space in the permanent galleries.

I would really like to know the true size of the collection. I've seen varying numbers from 3,000 to 14,000. A June 2012 Business First article stated that the gallery has 8,500 items in its collection. The Albright-Knox website claims a collection of 7,000. Regardless, all of these numbers are incredibly low, especially as this is one of the oldest and most well-known art museums in the country. By comparison:

- The Munson Williams Proctor Institute in Utica has over 25,000 items.
- The Toledo Museum of Art has over 30,000 items.
- The Memorial Art Gallery in Rochester has over 12,000 items.
- The Everson Museum of Art in Syracuse has over 11,000 items.
- The Art Gallery of Hamilton has over 9,000 items.

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And with the burchfield penny we can have an art district. The expansion would bring enough interest to renovate Elmwood from panos up.

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It already is an art district:

Albright
Burchfield
Historical society
Rockwell @ buff state
Other small galleries at buff state
Shakespeare in the summers...
Soon the Richardson

But, yes, an expansion will be killer....

replied to impressingagent
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Does the 7,000 items in the A-K Collection include their classical and period collection donated from Buffalo's golden age captains? forbidden from being decommissioned and sold...but disregarded and sold anyway to pay for modern and comtemporary...with no real hope of actually forming a competitive collection with other world class modern and contemporary museums.

I say that its time to think bold have 2 separate museums. Use the current Beaux Arts building for a classical and period collection and build an entirely new building for its modern and contemporary collection.

A good location is another museum hub such as the Science Center at Humboldt Park adjacent to the booming Life Sciences Medical Campus.

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grad94, I agree with you. If they want to continue to pursue contemporary and modern art then they should pursue an entirely different location for their contemporary and modern collection.

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Seems like across the street in the H.H.Richardson complex would be a relatively low cost, no brainer move--and would be eligible for historic tax credit assistance, etc.

But I think a perfect plan (dream?)would be to go underground the Elmwood Ave. side. Get rid of that butt ugly parking lot with a (somewhat) elevated kinetic sculpture/garden space that interplays with the existing classical facade. Then below, place 2 or 3 amazingly designed levels.

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Would like to see the current Albright-Knox turned into a fine arts museum and a new contemporary museum built next to the Burchfield-Penney to replace the current Mental Health Hospital Building.
I know a dollar and a dream.

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The consultants should feel right at home in SnØwy Buffalo!

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Museums as they are now constructed are an artificial and unsustainable concept. They arose out of the 19th century that divided History, Art, Science, and Literature, among others, into neat little boxes. That really made no sense back then, and it makes no sense today.

Art today uses science and technology. History is contained within art, and art is a part of History. Why are Audubon's prints housed in the LIbrary? I guess because they were bound in a book, someone thought they belong in a library -- but they could just as easily be properly held in an art museum as a science and natural history museum, as indeed they are.

This concept is so limiting. WE can do better.

Imagine if we had one collaborative museum, and put it downtown. (Fine -- I'll be happy if it were the museum district). But have one museum to which ALL of Buffalos culturals are members and contribute to its exhibits.

For instance, we could have an exhibit of the War of 1812. That would include artwork of the time period from the AkAG, indian and early settlers artifacts contained at the science museum, printed materials from the Library, artifacts from the BECHS, other artifacts from the Naval Museum on the waterfront, historical records from City and County Hall, and so on. Really, you can't tell the whole story without the collaboration of all our institutions in any case. Make it multisensory by including music from the BPO and from modern artists at the Birchfield, perhaps having theatrical interpretations with the colaboration of our theater groups.

Such a museum would be unique in the world. It would tell a story far more fully and richly than any single museum, no matter how expansive it's holding, ever could. Force our curators to think -- literally -- outside their boxes and get out in the community and see how rich the collections are outside their own museums.

We don't need more space for the AK -- instead, we need a new type of museum for all our culturals that would enable them to display their contents in new imaginative ways. Why limit art to just an art gallery? It would reach far more people, and especially those who would never to go an art gallery.

Let's do something that no one else in the world is doing.

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Ever been to the Carnegie in Pittsburgh? it's a similar concept to what you described... the library, art gallery and natural history museum all under one roof (or more accurately, interconnected roofs all on the same block).

As a collaborative experience, it doesn't work as well as you describe. The library is in the business of loaning books in and out and amongst branches, the gallery is contemplative, and the museum is educational. Even the Warhol is more of a nightclub atmosphere than an art gallery. Each is more than can be taken in during an afternoon, so admission is still divided up between tickets to a particular segment.

The part that DOES work well is that the Carnegie is a single entity. They fund-raise, plan, advertise, and administer for all their assets through a single board. A membership to any of the main campus buildings (art gallery, library, and natural history museum) will also put you on the mailing list and make you eligible for discounts to the outlaying Science Center, Warhol Gallery, or even the Heinz History Center.

If anything, they're possibly even TOO aggressive at marketing their alternate sites to anyone who only visits one. It takes several years and multiple changes of address to get off their damned mailing list!!

I could easily see the interaction you speak of if the Naval Park, library, A-K, BECHS, Science Museum, Martin House, Sheas and any others joined forces. But without a name like Carnegie or Smithsonian to tie them together, it would be a clusterfumble of epic proportions to have historians making budgets for book acquisition, librarians marketing art tours, and art directors booking children's tours of the zoo.

A collaborative board with members from each institution may be able to come together to share one another's goals. Even the BNCVB might be effective at putting together a plan of action tailored to our multiple cultural assets. Perhaps the Buffalo-Niagara Partnership would consider a sub-office dedicated to our museums and theaters and find ways to partner them with corporate sponsors. Even the NFTA could take a model from Atlanta's 'Peach Express' to more easily transport visitors between the waterfront, Museum District, Niagara Falls and other sites of interest.

A lend-loan sharing project would be great for the A-K to donate art temporarily to the library, the Library make its rare books about the War of 1812 available to the Naval Park, the Martin House present a display at the science center on how they are restoring the complex, or the Science Center loan a portion of their butterfly collection to the zoo for a month. Even small galleries and theaters could participate by putting on small productions at the library auditorium, Martin Pergola, Erie Canal ruins, the steps of the A-K or Shakespeare Hill.

Buffalo has too much to even try putting it all under one roof. We can't even find an empty block to build a Convention Center without cutting off one section of the city from another and giving a short-lived boom to one neighborhood while others suffer. But cooperation and sharing of resources would benefit all corners of the city if our cultural institutions were able to work together for their own common good and mutual enhancement.

replied to Rand503
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The AKAG and the Burchfield can't even collaborate on programming (First Fridays va Second Saturdays), so I see a collaborative museum--while I like the concept--as improbable. It's likely to turn out that the AKAG would carry the bulk of the weight--as it did with Beyond/In--due to the resources it has compared to the other museums.

This is definitely a job for an expert (which I am not). One one hand, I love the idea of fortifying "Museum Row", whether it be on the current AKAG site (yes, bury the parking!!!) or, say, Richardson.

Alternatively, I love the concept of the AKAG taking over an industrial site downtown (DL&W) as an outpost--it gives them proximity to Canalside, puts art--one of the city's core assets--in the mix of downtown, allows for expansion of the display, heightens awareness of the Gallery by putting it in proximity of a prime tourist attraction, etc.

Or, maybe the AKAG should explore something a bit more far afield--say, the Bethlehem Admin Building--and create a new destination altogether.

I wonder what sort of funds are available for this.....

replied to DeanerPPX
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The Victoria and Albert Museum in london is also similar to that idea.

replied to DeanerPPX
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The Victoria and Albert Museum in london is also similar to that idea.

replied to DeanerPPX
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reminds me of the early (and thankfully never executed) plans for the north campus, that had all ub academic departments in one monstrous box. just like the borg.

yes, disciplines have blurry edges and cross pollinate all the time, but the reason we divide up collections and subjects is because we have too many needs, ideas, objects, and functions to try and incoherently merge them all together without making any distinctions between them.

the reason that we have different museums is the same reason that your house has different rooms, your company has employees with different expertise, your hospital has different departments, and your charities try to solve one problem instead of every problem. division of labor is essential to any functioning organization and society.

replied to Rand503
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I don't really agree with that. A scientist will say that a pair of specticles belongs with the Science museum, the historian will say they belong in the History museum, and yet we have James Joyce's with the Poetry Collection at UB. Why? Merely because of an accident in the purchasing process -- when his collection came up for sale, it was sold in one package to a buyer who in turn gave them to the UB Poetry Collection.

These categories are often completely arbitrary and make no sense. Again, should the Audubon prints be in the Science Museum (they once had a copy of the folio), the History museum (as they are historical documents), or the Art Gallery (as many people consider them art) or the Library?

I understand that there are issues, and that other museums might have done it half-assed. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea or it can't be done well.

At the very least, all our culturals should be collaborative entities, working together to build exciting exhibitions that will draw upon each other collections. That will in turn draw in new people and produce new scholarship.

Additionally, there is no reason why the museums can't do this today -- they can collaborate upon an exhibit and house it temporarily in a warehouse or grain elevator or some other space in Buffalo. There is no law that says that every Art Gallery exhibit or Science Museum exhibit must be displayed in house. (Well, maybe they have a by-law to that effect, but I doubt it). If our theater companies and the BPO can do shows off-site, so can anyone else.

replied to grad94
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There is no law that says that every Art Gallery exhibit or Science Museum exhibit must be displayed in house. (Well, maybe they have a by-law to that effect, but I doubt it).

Museums loan to each other all the time. It's standard practice. It occurs locally, too.

replied to Rand503
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I was saying that they could do an exhibit in a warehouse or a grain elevator as a collaborative exhibit.

Yes, i know that museums loan to each other all the time. But it is far more likely that the AKAG will lend something to MoMA or to another art gallery. But when was the last time you actually saw anything at either the BECHS or the AKAG that had an item that they other had? Never, in my experience.

I do recall an exhibit several years ago that showed pieces of furniture of the Larkin Soap Co that were designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Not sure who owned those, but I recall it was the AKAG. If so, why do they own it and not the BECHS? And if furniture is considered art, then surely the BECHS has art to lend -- quite a bit of it, actually.

My point is that there are fascinating stories in Buffalo's history that date back thousands of years, and we have the resources to tell those stories in imaginitive ways. Boxing some things based on an accident of purchase or donation makes no sense at all.

Perhaps we do need an overarching museum consortium like the Smithsonian to bring them all together. Not sure how or if it would work, but it's worth looking into.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Rand, you're inventing a problem where none exists.

The Buffalo Museum of Science displays mummies and canopic jars that are the property of BECHS. Maybe you should visit.

Loans depend upon the context of the exhibitions planned. Additionally, each institution has different and important rules regarding the display and preservation of their items. (Donors may also have placed further restrictions when they bequeath works.) As far as mounting exhibitions in grain elevators, I doubt that any museum would loan an item worth millions of dollars if the air quality, security, proper lighting, and the necessary insurance could not be guaranteed in a concrete silo.

However, I'm sure that if the Albright-Knox, for example, wanted to mount an exhibition on Egyptian art, I'm sure that BECHS and other applicable museums would be more than happy to assist if they have items that would be pertinent to the display.

replied to Rand503
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These categories are often completely arbitrary...

of course they are. -all- categories, being imperfect attempts by imperfect human beings to sort the overwhelming vastness of the world into understandable and therefore manageable chunks, are arbitrary. the answer is not to abolish categories but to keep improving, refining, expanding, subdividing, retiring, and/or replacing them.

why is it so objectionable that james joyce's eyeglasses were carefully saved along his manuscripts and all reside at the same home? i consider that a sign of respect for the integrity of the joyce collection.

and why is it bad that a library, an art museum, a history museum, and a science museum could all have an interest in audubon's bird folio? isn't that evidence of a great cultural achievement?

replied to Rand503
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That UB plan, of course, was by Gordon Bunshaft -- architect of the A-K modernist addition. Bunshaft later designed the HSBC Tower, which some have likened to a vertical manifestation of his UB plan.

replied to grad94
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While I'm sure he had a hand in it, I've always read Marine Midland Center was designed by SOM's San Francisco office. Bunshaft did the Marine Midland tower in lower Manhattan, which is far better and taller than ours in Buffalo. Figures.

replied to RaChaCha
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22 comments and no one has yet said Trico building yet. This is an oddity.

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believe it or not, i did think about the trico. big spaces for big modern art.

for what it's worth, paris has a museum in a repurposed rail station.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Musee_d_Orsay.html

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Snohetta means new build. They don't do historic renovations unless it's part of a much larger program. Right now they're doing a huge expansion of the San Francisco MOMA which is very much apart from the original Mario Botta building stylistically. (it's too bad this crappy website doesn't allow people to attach images to posts)

Hopefully it will be large enough to display much more of the collections at A-K so if the ambition is there, I'm thinking $300 million - $1 billion, an obvious fundraising challenge. As to what gets displayed where, I've seen classical artworks displayed well in modern surroundings and Modernist work displayed in more classical ones. But many of the newer artists do huge works that can't be accomodated in a traditional art museum with smallish galleries and relatively low ceiling heights.

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Hopefully it will be large enough to display much more of the collections at A-K so if the ambition is there, I'm thinking $300 million - $1 billion....

If you're ambitious enough to donate your tax refund then it will happen at that price. Otherwise, nope, it won't happen. This museum doesn't have the deep pockets do anything more than a good closet reorganization to carve out more exhibition space then, in time, a restrained expansion that doesn't break the bank.

replied to sonyactivision
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Snohetta doesn't reorganize closets, they build unique, substantial urban landmarks. What the little people don't understand is that wallets sometimes only open for the largest, most ambitious proposals. If the A-K were to suggest someting in the range of $5 to $10 million, people wouldn't care: they wouldn't respond, they'd figure those funds were already in an account somewhere.

replied to PaulBuffalo
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Don't know where you got your $5-$10 million figures -- I never said it -- but you seem very confident about all the work that SnØhetta performs for it clients and the direction that the Albright-Knox wants to take. I hope you are correct about your billion-dollar price tag: I'd like nothing more than to see that kind of money spent here.

replied to sonyactivision
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I hate art and history so people ought not make much of a fuss about what happens here.

The AK and BECHS can do what they'd like but I'll go spasticly rogue if they try to use any taxpayer funding for any improvements. In my view, which ought to be the view of everyone, the government has no business assisting things that a large portion of the public sees value in.

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So sad that you hate art and history.

But I'm sure you will also argue that government has no business assisting any of our sports teams, golf courses, hockey rinks, convention centers, casinos and so on under your same logic.

replied to "Realist"
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you're falling for his bait. He's not serious, he's trying to be satirical. He thinks others think this way, so he's putting words in their mouths in order to blow holes in those imagined arguments, all the while labeling others as straw men. It's complicated . . .

replied to Rand503
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In other words: My mocking strawman arguments=bad. Making strawman arguments to advance ideas of the groupthink=good. Hey who needs consistency?

replied to biniszkiewicz
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If your concern is groupthink, why mock one of the few dissenting voices? Creating this false character gives the appearance you're incapable of addressing the issue at hand with the argument's at your disposal. Where does the blame fall for that?

replied to "Realist"
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Who said anything about one? I'm mocking the entire group.

replied to benfranklin
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welcome to the group.

replied to benfranklin
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What bini said.

Still, I'd agree with this part
Rand>"government has no business assisting any of our sports teams, golf courses, hockey rinks, convention centers, casinos"

I realize none of that govt spending will end any time soon (seems difficult enough to ever decrease it or slow its growth), but there's many much better uses for govt spending on more truly public needs than any of those things you listed which I think the private sector could handle just fine.

As for AK (aside from kettle/whathaveyou's dopey idea about it being to do with "hating" art or history) - I don't see why AK shouldn't be funded by donations, memberships, fund raising events, admission fees, marketing efforts, etc.

Wasn't that how it happened when first built - didn't Mr. Albright and Seymour Knox II fund it, not govt? (just asking, not sure, no time to look at the momemn)

replied to Rand503
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Using the same logic, yes, with the exception of casinos. I like casinos and, more importantly, I dislike those who oppose them. Therefore you won't hear me mention publicly protected casino monopolies in my ills of government rants.

replied to Rand503
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"I dislike those who oppose them."

Aww, poor kettle/whathaveyou sounds so full of dislike!
(lol, but good that it's just trollish pretend dislike)

As for me, I don't dislike on a personal level moralizer activists, even when I disagree with some for advocating that all casino gambling should be illegal here (even non-Indian) while they favor legal potentially addictive entertainment *they* enjoy.
Mmmm, bars & village beer stores -drool- … yay for consistency!

And my support of expanded legalizing of casinos here beyond Indians is the opposite of favoring a 'monopoly', despite anybody's wild imagination to the contrary.

But no doubt it's possible some of them might be likable.
Disagreement need not always = dislike, even while obsessive trolling sometimes = lame.

(what casino legalizing has to do with AK expansion or museum funding is anyone's guess…. unfortunate for Rand if he's trying to follow along in any serious way)

replied to "Realist"
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Correction Rand. Sometimes casinos do make it into my "good" government lectures. I just frame the issue around my support for the gambling industry as a whole and pray nobody remembers all of those crony capitalism rants I made when the public sector supported things I don't like so much.

If anyone spots this contradiction, I'll distract them by calling them a troll. Or I'll throw out a red herring like saying people who support the perfectly legal craft brewing industry are hypocrites if they don't support the illegal to all but one company casino gambling industry. By then people will have forgotten all about any inconsistency in my remarks.

replied to whatever
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Again off topic re AK, but since it's been continued, re exclusivity/monopoly -

kettle/whathave>"illegal to all but one company casino gambling industry"

I don't think I've ever noticed anyone on BR saying that was a good idea for NYS to have done it that way.
Still, the NYS govt we elected in 2002 did formally agree to it. So that decade-old spilled milk should of course be lived up to until the deal's end date (instead of crazy actions like cutting off utility lines as some have advocated).

A better way would've been to allow private co's to open casinos anywhere in NYS, like say Delaware North, or Trump, or anyone who wants to. Following the deal's expiration, that would be a smart new way to do it. Hopefully Cuomo has that in mind. We'll see.

So of course the "all but one" is something nobody's advocating be continued after the current agreement, as far as I know. The current agreement is 10 years old. I don't think BR even existed back then.

But Mr. Troll will keep trotting out the dumb ole straw man again and again - even in off topic threads like about Albright Knox … even though nobody on here is favoring the monopoly aspect continuing any longer than what was signed up to 10 years ago.

And as far as the shoe fitting, well…
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/troll?s=t
"n. an internet user who sends inflammatory or provocative messages designed to elicit negative responses or start a flame-war."

replied to "Realist"
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And when my opponent won't let me and my casino contradiction off the hook, I just attempt to overload them with more inconsistency. Calling them a troll while trolling myself, yelling strawman while making obvious strawman arguments, and crying about being off topic when I won't let the issue go either.

I just repeat calling the kettle black as much as possible until my mark gives up. Then I win.

replied to whatever
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yawn. must be the morning troll report . . .

yet again you have failed to illuminate any contradiction whatsoever in whatever's position. Either A): you're too dense to read plain English, as his posts (though I don't always agree with him) are certainly consistent or B) you're too inarticulate to employ English in explaining what on earth you're talking about.

You endlessly charge that others (primarily 'whatever', I'm guessing) invent straw man arguments which you assiduously fail to document. And once again instead of positively stating your own position you choose rather to smear and cast aspersions on what you imagine to be others' thinking, without any evidence whatsoever. Not an iota of specificity, just aspersions . . .

Why don't you just say openly what YOU genuinely think instead of endlessly slamming what you imagine others must think? So tiresome . . .

replied to "Realist"
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Like the Bills? Ahem.

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One of my main concerns is the Science Museuem. I understand why it was built out on Humbolt Parkway in the 1920s, but today it is way off the beaten track. They have done a good job in trying to remain relevant and boost attendance on a small budget, and it will never be like the Ontario Science museum, but it can play a valuable role locally.

We live in a world of science and technology, and the museum could be a major educational force for children and adults alike on explaining it. We also have a rich natural history that still needs to be explored fully and explained. Not to mention pre-white man cultures that lived in the region for thousands of years that need exploration. Those three aspects are something that the Museum could and should be doing, in my opinion, and I would love to see them expand to incorporate it all. But money is the big problem, as usual.

For the Science museum to really grow, would it have to move to a) downtown, b) near the other museums, or c) stay put? I though it, and I come up with no good solutions. It's a fine building that I would hate to just abandon.

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"a) downtown, b) near the other museums, or c) stay put?"

d) Erie Freight House? e) Bethlehem? f) Trico? g) rebuilt Larkin Admin? h) an 1812 period ship?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think the real answer is your c) stay put.

As you mentioned, the $ (regardless of public or private) to relocate and build something new would be a big issue, and then too its current building probably would be without a use or enough $ to fund a use for it - more preservation drama.
Even beyond those two problems, there'd also be political controversy about a perception of abandoning it's current neighborhood.

I agree with Paul that it sounds like you're inventing some problems. Then again, a lot of problems are of the invented variety...

replied to Rand503
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I don't know why the Albright Knox just doesn't move from their current location and move to the Erie Freight House?

I mean, the way folks around here talk about the EFH you would think its far better than the Albright Knox.

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canalside art museum?

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The Albright already intrudes too much upon the Olmsted ideal; look that up, if you don't understand me. Expansion in that location would be yet another insult.

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there's vacant land between iroquois drive and the 198. they could build there, connecting the buildings with a tunnel under iroquois.

http://goo.gl/maps/Q4Xhp

replied to MrGreenJeans
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I think the obvious spot for and addition is were the parking lot sits now. placing the building more to the corner of elmwood and iroquois. That would be my guess. or doing something sunken were the parking lot sits. i dont think they would push to aquire the land between iroquois and the 198. It just seems like a hassle but it would be pretty cool.

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Tear down the 1962 addition (which I have always felt falls short of the International Mark of a world-class facility), bury the parking lot, build a soaring, glass and steel modified trapezoidal structure on the south area incorporating the building once owned by Buff State. Make it a 250,000 sq. foot addition similar to the Lourve. Make it spectacular. I thought there were several international architects already working on an expansion plan? Am I wrong?

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The Gordon Bunshaft addition gets bulldozed over my dead body. It needs a refresh but not a demo. Very little new architecture compares with the work of Bunshaft.

replied to DOC
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Thank God you are not in a decision-making position at the AKAG. What a terrible idea.

replied to DOC
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Why not rehab the Richardson complex and make that the new AKAG ?

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