Proposed Main/High Office Building May Grow, Add Hotel Rooms
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Leave a commentThis building will make the EPIC building across Main look even more pathetic and awful.
The BMMC continues to say that Hotels are not needed in this area yet this proposal has 92 new rooms.
On top of that, this proposals adds another 540,000 sf when the BNMC continues to say that the 600,000 sf TRICO site does not have any use and cannot be filled because of its enormous size?
Hmmmmmm... something doesn't seem right here.
Maybe the BNMC is wrong?
Hotel rooms are becoming like hot sauce -- getting added to everything in Buffalo lately.
This one would make sense. Any visitors to the medical center that do not want to rent a car and want to be close to the business they are attending to there would probably prefer to be closer than many of the hotels.
Would be great to see a Starwood property in Buffalo.
Starwood's, Aloft property is being built at airport, but you are right how sweet would a Westin be in the Statler
Perhaps, but we recently heard that hotel rooms may well be included in the new Women's and Children's Hospital right next door. Also, if the Trico building is reused, much of that 600K+ square feet would likely be ideally suited for residential and hospitality.
I remain concerned that including hotel space in seemingly every major new-build that's been announced recently represents something of a bubble. And except for the happy bubbles at Elmwood & Allen, when bubbles burst it's...messy. And also, I continue to wonder whether all that new-build hotel space will weaken an important adaptive reuse option for existing buildings right at the time that other tools are finally becoming available to make those projects more feasible.
I share your concern, but received a lot of negative votes for airing it (in regards to the Webb conversion). A burst bubble is not without consequences: it translates to losses and a retrenchment of interest among investors. A net loss......
I'm also concerned.
Perhaps we could form a committee to determine the optimal number of hotel rooms for Buffalo, along with their optimal location. The board can be appointed by our Mayor, Governor, and Congressman Higgy Bear. Sam Hoyt would be, no doubt, be the right person to lead us into our Brave New World of Hospitality Equilibrium.
Or we can just stop giving developers incentives to bring unnecessary space online, and then stop giving a f@ck about what they do with their private money.
Our hotel occupancy is still higher or on par with the national average. We also still struggle to provide enough lodging when hosting major events. Business Travelers to downtown are often not able to find rooms when another large event is in town, then end up having to rent a car and being dispersed to outlying rooms by the aiport, Digens, etc.
Its sort of like the bakery concept. If you only make as much as you sold the day before because you don't want excess, you will never increase your sales.
None of these proposed hotel projects amount to more than a spec of sand on an ant hill. Hotels are typically 300 and more rooms in major cities. You could put all of these Buffalo hotel projects together into one building and not add up to one new hotel of 300 rooms.
This is true, I think a lot of these smaller mixed use plans though are basically servicing the other uses of the building, I don't think thats a bad thing. 60 rooms here 90 rooms there, they add up though, the new and updated rooms have also forced other more dated hotels that should be our flagships, like the Hyatt, Mellenium, the Adams Mark to invest in their properties.
With the economic environment right now around the country developers are being cautious, building a 300+ room hotel in Buffalo is probably not going to happen in the next decade.
I have to agree here. I think that Buffalo has actually lagged behind other cities when it comes to hotel construction. It's amazing, but if you drive around the country, you'll find almost entire cities near interstates that consist entirely of cheap hotels and chain restaurants. One after another, and they all pretty much look the same after a while.
I don't know how they support their business, but apparently they do, since I don't see any boarded up hotels in these places. At most other cities, a place like where the Thruway intersects with 33 or those type of interchanges would have six or seven Red Roofs, Motel 6s, La Quintas, and so on. Heck, the number of hotels near the Amherst campus should be at least double from what I gather.
There are a lot more people who travel than you think. Usually, it's just a day traveler who needs one night because they are passing through, or just coming in for one event or meeting. Few stay beyond one day, but we need capacity for that.
We have no hotels near our museums and very few downtown, even now. Any decent sized medical complex needs tons of hotel space. If we want to support a tourist trade in history and architecture, then we need more hotels.
UMMM
The Webster block is either going to be 140 or 200 hotel rooms and this would be 92. That's pretty close to the 300.
I get what you're saying...but Buffalo is not Chicago, NYC, San Diego et al. Buffalo should not expect a 300 room hotel. Heck, San Diego just scaled back a 800 Intercontinental Hotel to a 2 hotel combo of 500 rooms for Courtyard Suites and another lower end chain.
That said, at some point these 40-100 room projects are going to add up and hopefully push the Soviet Era Adams Mark out of the picture. My only concern is that this will delay the development at the Statler as that is a sizable project.
Should add, that my hope for the Statler is for it to become an all-suite hotel that carries a high end flag.
With the uncertainty in class a space it doesn't seem too out there that the focus has been on Apartments and Hotels.
The good thing about the development that is going on is that it is pretty small scale. It isn't like Marriott is coming in and building a 700 room hotel.
It is still embarrassing that Buffalo does not have a 5 star (even a higher 4) hotel. Cleveland, St. Louis, Baltimore all do. People may not like to hear it but Tom Brady wasn't wrong on that point.
I would rather have a dozen small hotels scattered around the city than one big project. It gives travelers more options, keeps the competition on its toes, and helps the surrounding neighorhood better.
A committee? But you deserve no say.
Your confused, this building will be the outpatient services building for Childens Hospital and will be connected to the hospital. THIS IS the proposed hotel connected to childrens.
You should read this article:
http://www.buffalonews.com/business/article1004742.ece
Apparently last year 1.2 million Canadians stayed overnight in Buffalo. As long as the Canadian economy stays strong, and the Toronto area continues to prosper, it is unlikely that the bubble will burst any time soon, if at all.
I think it could potentially be good. I work part time as an assistant at UB, and I see tons of papers about out-of-towners and researchers coming to Buffalo to see the Medical campus and tour the labs, but then they stay at the Marriott on Millersport. I think it could work nicely if they start putting these visitors to the medical campus right next to the campus. Plus, not to mention conferences that UB houses and such. I dunno. There is a lot of talk of all these new hotels, but I don't think this location is actually all that bad...
I can't support this project.
Ciminelli and Kideney are both big time conservatives with Ciminelli a big Romney supporter.
These right wing types have no business building a facility for "Women and Children"' when they go out of their way to raise money and support a party whose policies undermine both.
There's a good possibility that any moneyed developers investing in our city are going to be conservatives. For example: "Pegula has made more than $630,000 in campaign contributions to Republican politicians and committees who support what one observer termed his "very, very conservative" positions on global warming and taxes and regulations related to the natural gas industry." http://www.buffalonews.com/topics/terry-pegula/article326485.ece?articleId=326485&pubDate=2011-01-28&order=T&page=2
I do sympathize with your position though.
Sometimes we have to roll with big money, although we don't agree with what they believe in (what campaign they contribute to). It is still good for the city of Buffalo. Big Money has most, if not all of the control of government (the top 1% or so of America), and most of the time I disagree with them (exceptions: Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and a few more), but here this is a great project benefiting the City of Buffalo. I will support them here because of that.
That's about the silliest thing I've ever read on this site.
I'll reach here and assume you're big concern is abortion. No concern on your part that half those babies terminated are female?
I'm not a right to life extremist, but anyone who's so strongly in favor killing unborn children that it colors their opinion of a building, well... that's a bit creepy.
I happen to think that defending the constitution and the rights of women is a bit more important that arguing over what a building looks like.
If you consider discarding female fetuses and free birth control for all 'protecting the rights of women' then I guess you are right. As far as protecting the constitution, I would leave that up to conservatives, thanks.
The operative word is 'donate' to the candidate of your choice. It doesn't have to be a lot.
Statistics would say that since they are conservative they have most likely given a lot more of their personal wealth to charities that assist women and children than liberals of a similar stature would have.
Link to those numbers?
Word is that Karl Rove is already investing in Buffalo real estate
So when I can expect to hear details of the project you are financing? Or an alternate project that you support backed by liberals?
In all seriousness, this project sounds great to me. I may not agree with the developers political positions, but I can still support what looks like a good project to me. Families will need hotel space near the Medical Campus. This fills a need.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with most of what you said. But since this is a one-time economic endeavor, I'll support it. But this is another example of how politically conservative, right wing real estate companies spend their money on baloney campaigns, instead of using that money in a rising city to create jobs...
Key phrase in everything you just said: "their money"
And where do you think "their" money is coming from? Last I heard Children's Hospital is a non-profit, heavily government-subsidized entity.
I agree with Obama. These so-called private companies love to say they made it "on their own", but they wouldn't be what they are without the support of the government that they pretend to abhor.
You're thinking on this is so twisted that I won't waste my time trying to help. Did you ever work a really hard day in your life, and feel some accomplishment for doing so? You should try it.
Or...read a history book, or look at the impoverished nations of the world, and give thanks you were born in a capitalistic society.
Sorry for the you're rather than your... it may give some insight into to just how disturbing your logic is to me.
Hamp, did you check under your bed? Sometimes conservatives hide there and jump out to scare you at night.
Your being sarcastic, right? If anyone underminds society its the liberals who legislate morality and try to protect everybody from themselves.
Secondly, let's put things in perspective. It was the wealthy citizens who made Buffalo great. Brought in the great architects and designed Parks, industy, jobs, etc... Even the state is having a tough time doing that now and they're giving away money as fast as they can!
Oh, is that so? We have only the "wealthy citizens" to thank?
And what about all the laborers that worked building beautiful schools and churches, making steel and cars? Working on steamships and freighters.
Men and women working long hours in the grain elevators, retail stores, and factories?
Aren't they the ones that we should be grateful to? Didn't they help make Buffalo "great" too?
totally agree. There is too much fascination with the wealthy who take advantage of the middle class and poor. They pay their employees low wages and make a ton of money for themselves, to spend on hockey rinks and basketball courts in their homes. All the while not paying taxes through loopholes, and offshore accounts.. and donating their money to Conservative candidates to deregulate the financial industry and lower their taxes (capital gains), while making the excuse that they will create jobs. Jobs are investments that employers make. They hire someone to make money off of them. They don't create jobs just because they can, it is an investment. lowering taxes just puts more money into their pockets, while keeping the burden of taxation on the middle class.
I really didn't want to get into this, but here goes.
Please realize, first and foremost, that most businesses fail. People collect a pay check, the business barely covers cost, the owner loses his investment, and then it closes. He pays his taxes, he pays for his permits, and it all, usually, goes for naught.
Look at Solyndra, with the backing of the federal government, barely made it a year.
One only needs to look at the stories here on Buffalo Rising. How often do we celebrate the opening of a business, just to re-celebrate the opening of another business in the same location 8 months later?
Businesses are built on a belief in the product or service, and the investment of time and capital by the owner. Early employees are often hired with the 'hope' that the initial investment will pay off in the long run. Normally, that's not the case.
As for Mr. Obama's recent "you didn't build that"... has any president ever said anything to so belittle a significant percentage of the population? Presidents usually use the office to support, or inspire us to greater things (..."ask not what..." ). When Lincoln was alive, a sitting president said something he felt was below the office. He's quoted as saying "he should remember that Washington sat in that chair." Glad to see that Obama took time out to be on Entertainment Tonight to clear up Mr. Biden's 'shackles' comment. Just for the sake of facts...let's remember the republican's were the side that ended slavery, not the democrats...but what's a little thing like that...
It's hard to see where the president isn't just trying to fracture the country so he can cobble together 51% of the vote. It's sad. But the posts on this site would seem to show there's an audience for the message, and that it's being taken in hook, line, and sinker.
Really great points, and I really appreciate your response and opinion. But the main reason why I want Obama to win over Romney is because of the financial industry. Republicans have deregulated the banking industry since Ronald Reagan (also Clinton did allow the repeal of Glass-Steagall). The reason for the 2008 Recession, housing collapse, stock market collapse was because of deregulation. There were laws that were repealed or bent to allow banks and other financial industry to do things that were not good for the middle class, but good (at least for the short term) themselves and their investors. Romney and other Republican politicians want to go back and repeal (or at least not continue) deregulation of the financial industry, and that is known to cause recessions.
During the Great Depression Glass-Steagall and other laws were passed to not allow the financial industry to do damaging things to the economy for their own (the CEOs) benefit. This acts have been repealed to let the free market regulate itself, but this has not happened. This is my researched opinion.
There's blame for each side. (The left - we should encourage home ownership for all... the result - lend money to everyone... wow, we can make a lot of money selling and bundling these loans... a few years later...ooops, people aren't repaying?.. and the bundled loans are spread across every financial institution?...oooops, we're too big to fail, bail us out.)
I'd prefer to see a more hands off approach. If you fail, you fail. It would have caused more pain, but the long term lesson would have been better.
Yes but I believe the "oops" by the bankers was on purpose, they made tons of money off of it.
I'll reply to all your replies here. I agree with them. I wanted Chris Collins to win over Poloncarz because I think a more "hands off" approach should be taken in local government (in most cases). I just think the federal government has such different responsibilities, involves huge money (campaign contributions, etc.)and has the ability to help or hurt people depending on what they choose to cut that there needs to be oversight. I don't trust politicians to do what is right for the majority or what is right.
Oh and when he said "you didn't build that.." he was referring to roads and bridges.. Twisting of information... However he said that instead of those.. but I think that was a gaffe when he was talking. And actually what he said there should make sense to everyone. For business to thrive we need to invest in infrastructure, and education.
I was using Hamp's interpretation of the quote which occurred much higher up in the thread.
I do think it's easy in hind site to say, 'look at that success, it's not all about the owner, look at the infrastructure that surrounds it.'
Let's use a real-world-current-Buffalo-example. Rick Smith decides to buy some grain elevators. Years pass, he makes incremental improvements, investing his time and money. One way or another, he stumbles upon a reuse plan. He tests it, makes some changes, and over another ten years, creates a successful business (besides his steel business).
The truth, to me, is that the project involves passion and enthusiasm, long before it has anything to do with profits. In twenty years, someone would look at it, and say, 'he didn't build that..., he was lucky, and... the government played a big part.'
Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that person mistaken.
sorry for three replies.. but the stories on Buffalo Rising, I think, are about middle class people trying to start their own business. That is not the same as big business that is already doing well, public companies. And President Obama is also trying to help small business, not just Romney and Republicans. We need small business to thrive to have a strong economy.
Every big business was once a small business.
The average Fortune 500 Company lives just 40-50 years.
Granted, Buffalo Rising covers lot's or retail, but for their owners, it's one of the most important investments of their life. They've been covering some of the startup happenings lately...but those posts don't seem to create the interest that the posts like these receive.
very good point. But I think their is a culture of the rich, where they just get richer and richer every generation..
Our experience is different. Most 'old' Buffalo money I see being lost generation after generation.
All of the old buildings here, they were once flourishing manufacturing, that's gone to zero. Our loss of population in the last one hundred years, it means something, doesn't it?
I'm not saying you're incorrect, just we see things differently.
Actually, Erie County has gained roughly 400,000 citizens over the past hundred years.
8th largest in 1900, 72 in 2010.
Of course it was, you were sucked into the lie. Like hamp said, it was those who spent all day in the soap factory, grain elevators, etc, etc, etc to get Buffalo on a roll.
Actually, I think it depends on which family member you are talking about.
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=Ciminelli
looks to me more blue than red in recent years.
The numbers aren't up to date. Frank Ciminelli gave thousands to Romney when he was in town recently.
This isn't exactly breaking news. I'll consider it news when the developer is no longer merely "considering adding a hotel component and four additional floors" but actually PLANNING on doing so.
So wait... a private developer is planning a large mixed use project, built to the street, underground parking, leed gold with a green roof, on Main street, and most of the comments here are negative? I thought that sounded pretty much like the check list around here...you people are hard to please!
I'm not sure about how it will fit in with the surrounding streetscape, and I wonder when downtown will start to be saturated with hotel rooms. The designs of all these medical campus buildings are starting to blend together to me, too. Still, overall it sounds like a very positive project.
Oh, and hamp, don't worry, I doubt they'll ask you about your political affiliations before renting you a room... ;)
Someone has a differing opinion so you call them names. What is this 5th grade?
Young, old, rich, poor, conservative or liberal who cares the world is coming to an end in 4 months!!
The only local hotel market to be concerned with oversaturation is the airport area. If/when Canadian dollar falls vs American, or for some other reason Canadians stop flying out of BNIA, hotels in that area will get hosed. I don't think thats likely in the short term.
The COB desperately needs more rooms. There aught to be a few hotels serving the Elmwood/Buffalo State/Museum corridor. The hertel strip could easily support one. South Buffalo could probably use one. People coming back to visit family/friends on the east side could probably support a hotel on main. Lastly as this article is about a hotel in the medical campus, it also could support rooms (especially after children's moves.)
There are a few hotels right in West Seneca that serve the South Buffalo area.
Kinda bland but nice. Should add some bulk density to the area.
The developer's political opinions should never be under consideration by any government when that government is granting/denying the developer (or other contractor) permits or contracts. Is this Tammany Hall? You have to hail the Fuhrer or quote Mao to get a deal done?
I despise the Republican Party, myself, particularly lately. But whatever the developer espouses politically should never, in America, determine whether or not he is able to compete in the marketplace.
When traveling, I will skip a certain chicken franchise, and anyone who disagrees with this guy can stay at a different hotel. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that some of our best architecture was built by politically very disagreeable people. What do you think Lincoln Parkway residents thought of FDR? Those people are long gone. Their mansions are still here. This guy will be long gone when his building still graces Main Street in either a larger or smaller incarnation.
On one hand you have the pro-immigration liberal democrats who have given up on US Borders and US Sovereignty so long as more immigrants (legal and illegal) vote democrat. Democrats and Liberals are more than happy to strip benefits from the poor and middle class and senior citizens to extend benefits to immigrants who we should have never allowed to immigrate here. Liberal democrats are more than happy to promote abortion especially if its likely to grow up and vote republican.
Unemployment average is hovering around 10% for hispanics its higher 15%+ and for african americans its higher still 25%+. Project statistics say that there will be a surplus 80 million unskiled workers in the US and a shortage of 80 million skilled workers. So we dont need unskilled immigrants in the US....and what we do need is a functioning public school system so that our kids dont get warehoused in failed schools for bloated teachers unions contracts where they eventually go on welfare or prison...or into the unskilled category.
On the other hand you have the war mongering neoconservative republicans who have taken our country from a budget surplus to trillion dollar wars for over a decade. They want to strip the benefits of the poor, middle class and senior citizens so they can fight the next proxy war for Israel against Iran. Every dollar the neocons save from social wefare benefits is another arab they can kill Israel. Oye Vay, such a deal!
You cant win either way...so let the developers build. If you vet every building and hold off on construction until their political views match yours then you might as well move into a cave. Nothing will ever get built.
The hotel was taken off the table on this project more than a week ago. This article is out of date and not currently factual. Disregard it.
Well it takes a good week for news to reach the mining camps in Sacramento by Pony Express. ;)
..the Travelerr hotel..quality rooms..by the hour
A couple of modern masterpieces in our medical sector. with this and all the designs for ub's med school, welly welly well.
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Main STreet at this point really needs some street life. Let's hope that this mixed use buildings will not have the loading dock on Main, but instead will promote some urbanity.