Preservation Ready: Seneca Theater Building
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Leave a commentGreat post, Steel. I learned something new today.
Nice to see a little So.Buff love. With a little attention this area still has a lot of potential. Check out my pics of my last walk down Seneca St and Abbott http://www.flickr.com/photos/sobuff Keep in mind these pics are early in the day and I avoided people so it doesn't look crowded but Seneca has a good amount of foot traffic. Like mentioned there is a lot of parking behind the buildings. Community garden across the street.
More on the Skyroom building (what we call it) it used to host many of the best local concerts, including Suicidal Tendencies, Cro-Mags, Sepultura, and Goo Goo Dolls opened for them all!
Americorp took over most of the 1st floor and some of the upper floor, so not sure how much they changed the showplace up top. I do remember a terrific view through those windows but that was before they built the Senior building across the street.
Skyroom was also host to a very early Stevie Ray Vaughan concert, well before anybody knew who he was. Nice little claim in music history there.
Yup, RHCP and REM, the list goes on and on.
Although the upper floor windows are still covered, one shouldn't get the idea that the building is mothballed and unused. Actually, most days, it's a veritable beehive of activity now that it houses the headquarters of The Service Collaborative of WNY (formerly WNY AmeriCorps, and one of 2 AmeriCorps affiliates in Buffalo -- the other housed at the Belle Center). AmeriCorps moved in to this building in 2010, during the time that I was doing a year of AmeriCorps service, so I got to see the hard work that AmeriCorps put into rehabbing portions of the building with their own work crews. Their presence has boosted the positive activity and energy at this critical point in South Buffalo -- a "downtown" area, as this article points out.
For more info on what The Service Collaborative has going on right now, take your pick of ways to get connected:
FB
http://www.facebook.com/TheServiceCollaborativeofWNY
Twitter
https://twitter.com/TSCWNY
...and what not.
Maybe the Service Collaborative should put some service towards installing some windows before they all turn into mushrooms!
Seneca Street still has such great bones! I think South Buffalo suffers from being so disconnected from the rest of the city but it has the potential to be a terrific urban village Seneca, South Park, and Abbott all having good commercial building stock remaining.
My Dad's rock & roll band played in this building in the late '60s - he has a poster from the show framed!
J, I'm not sure that they're using those upper floors at the moment :-)
I agree with you about the "great bones" of Seneca Street. When I was doing my AmeriCorps service year, one thing I worked on was a NY urban forestry grant to provide street trees along that "downtown" stretch of Seneca Street -- the planned City streetscape project went over budget, so guess what they cut out? The trees :-( While the grant application was my initiative, it was to be a joint venture between Riverkeeper and AmeriCorps -- Riverkeeper designed the tree pits so that they would help the City meet stormwater retention/management goals, and AmeriCorps forces would plant & tend the trees so they'd have a fighting chance to grow to maturity. Unfortunately, the grant didn't rank high enough to get funded in that round -- but I still have a folder of nice pics of Seneca Street :)
Another group doing some great things in that neighborhood is the South Buffalo Crew, including a new community garden nearby. Check out my article from last fall:
http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/10/building-community-with-the-south-buffalo-crew.html
It would be great to see this landmark put back into use along with the shops around it. I know that there are business owners in the area who really want to make a difference on Seneca St. but find it so hard to attact people to come to this part of the city. I think if the police presence was increased along Seneca St., including bike or foot patrols, people would feel more at ease. I lived in South Buffalo for many years prior to being relocated to Texas and never had an issue patronizing the businesses in that area but it seems that the area has a different stigmata to others in different areas of Buffalo.
Thank you for posting this article. There are a lot of good things in South Buffalo that are never spotlighted and I think should be to help the city. Let's hope that others see the beauty of this building as well and are willing to take a risk to help preserve Buffalo.
By the way, prior to moving a new place moved in near the Seneca Theatre call The Green Valley Grill, the owner has great vision and wants to help improve the area. The food was really affordable and very good. If you are in the area I suggest stopping in to try it!
JM I have a VHS tape in my basement somewhere of Carcass playing there in the 80's. In high school it was one of my prized possessions. Also Cannibal Corpse basically created the American Death Metal genre there.
I still live in the neighborhood and would love to see a major rehab done on this building. I didn't know the theater portion was torn down. I always assumed it was still there in the southern portion of the building (behind the entrance near the bus stop).
The Granada had the auditorium portion in the rear removed long ago. You are correct that the original entrance is the pizza shop centered on the Main Street facade. In fact, the original colorful tile floor is still visible. The Kensington suffered an explosion, apparently as a result of oil tanks in the basement. That was a always a weird story though because people recall the place never actually being heated by oil. Apparently the explosion was so violent that it blew the entire facade clear across the street. The Amherst was once a large single screen theater, but after the mid-1970s it was converted to the current three screen set up.
It also occurs to me that this building would make a righteous historic preservation tax credit project -- especially after the Governor signs the bill raising the per-project cap.
Governor--?
South Buffalo is an under reported and under appreciated section of the city. In some ways, its better that it remains low visibility because it has kept the area livable and intact excluded from the cycle of decay, rot, house flipping, abandonment that has plagued the east.
This is not a reflection of the people who live on the eastside. The eastside is the largest section of Buffalo and suffered the most from the construction of the Kensington and population loss and loss of industry.
All the above depressed housing prices which makes it difficult for those who want to leave to sell for enough to be able to move but it also makes it easy for those people who shouldnt have a house because they dont know how to take care of it...to actually get one.
The people of South Buffalo kept their neighborhood stable. Some said they were prejudice but this is just liberal ignorance and envy that an inner city neighborhood managed to stand strong and intact while the less cohesive sections of the city crumbled.
granted, seneca steet is not in the old first ward but the fbi disagrees with you about 'prejudice' in south buffalo being a figment of liberal imaginations.
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/south-buffalo/article955834.ece
Not to be a pedant, but that's the First Ward. Technically not part of South Buffalo because it's north of the Buffalo River, but culturally connected because of its Irish roots.
With the major component removed (the theater auditorium), its most significant reason for existing is largely gone. Last I knew, the plaster lobby leading back was semi-intact. It would make a great front for a new use behind on the parking lot, but otherwise if it stayed or left for promising new developement, I wouldn't cry either.
Is there still not a few theater buidlings left on the east side? Neighborhood houses were so popular in the day - and the reason I pursued architecture (and developemnt)!
I'm currently researching movie theaters of 20th century Buffalo. While I don't currently have my master list of addresses and information, off hand I would say there are approximately 40 to 50 movie theaters still standing. Many of which have been highly modified.
I assume you guys have seen:
www.buffaloah.com/h/movie/tc.html
and
www.pbase.com/kjosker/theaters&page=all
Including the Armory Restaurant on Connecticut?
I think the prospects of this being reused is hampered by the fact that the neighborhood is deteriorating. There is a lot of empty retail along this stretch of Seneca, and most of what is there is either food joints, bars and low rent businesses. It's still pretty safe, but I don't see that that area is heading in the right direction.
I know what you mean. Once a neighborhood goes down there is no way to change it and we should not do any more investing there. Everything is a hopeless lost cause and we should just move on to someplace new.Right?
Then again one of the reasons that the neighborhood is declining is because of this attitude leaning toward disinvestment . But I think major investment in a major neighborhood building like this can change those attitudes. Do you agree? Let's think hard. Are there any examples of this approach in Buffalo - invest and innovate and change the way people think about a place? I know we can think of an example if we try.
Ok, Steel. That sounds good. Now how do you get people to move into this area? How do you attract investment? How do you undo the slow decay that has been ongoing in that neighborhood for decades now? That part of South Buffalo used to be full of people of people who worked in the industry that's long gone. Where are the people supposed to come from who would want to live in this neighborhood and take their place? I would like you to come up with some sound ideas with some actual substance instead of some nebulous idealistic pablum.
I said we need to think up some example of someone doing this in the City. If we think hard we might come up with an example and then we will know it is possible. Can you think of an example where some developer has invested in a place and made it attractive and successful in a formerly declining neighborhood?
Steel and Pamp
have a look at this;
Right, so when I point out that any attempt to restore this building will have to contend with the decline of this neighborhood, which you don't disagree is happening. But what I get out of your reply is that you, like me and our political leadership, don't have any better ideas about what we can realistically to save South Buffalo before it's too late. It's a shame too, because I have noticed boarded up houses and spot demolitions appearing in what not long ago were stable, middle class neighborhoods. And I don't think demographics is going to be kind to this part of the city either.
Your answer is run. I like the Larkin district model .
So what is this Larkin District Model? How does it apply to Seneca street? Larkin doesn't really have anything in the way of retail or residential, and is more or less an island in a sea of old industry and deteriorating housing stock.
5 years ago you would have said it was not possible to rejouvenate the Larkin neighborhood because it was on a downward spiral. Today it is home to major companies and 1000s of jobs. A developer with a vision could make a major impact on this corner.
It's kind of beside the point to even bring Larkin into this discussion. Sure, it is an example of investment and vision that still so sorely lacks in this city. But what good does it do otherwise to say that if we can get someone with money and vision to invest in Seneca Street, we could turn it around? We could say that about a lot of the city, but how do we find these people? How do we attract people to live and patronize the businesses in this neighborhood? I can see from your posts that you don't have any better ideas than anyone else does. It's too bad, the time is running out on a lot of South Buffalo.
In any case, Larkin, as wonderful as it is, needs to be kept in perspective. They've renovated some old industrial buildings and put new jobs in what was an old industrial area. There's a couple of food places open during the day and a plaza where they occasionally have concerts. But what doesn't have is any retail, and if you go a block or two over you wind up in a neighborhood where I bet no one on BRO would be in hurry to move to. Where's the residential spin off? The place is a ghost town after working hours are over. What does that type of development offer a place like Seneca Street?
How about the gradual improvements on Grant Street, with both "trendy" businesses like Sweet_ness 7 and Shakti Yoga as well as businesses that serve a more working-class population like West Side Stories or any of the several new immigrant-owned grocery stores that have opened up recently?
Grant still has issues, but it is a street that many had written off completely even five years ago, and is now moving in a positive direction, with many formerly vacant storefronts now filled.
You see negativity in everything in the city. I am so glad that mentality is on the wane in Buffalo. It has kept the region locked in stasis for too long.
It's a good thing you can accurately discern the mood of people in South Buffalo from all the way in Chicago. The mood of a lot of people in South Buffalo is that it is heading in the wrong direction. The old neighborhoods are changing and trusted neighbors are moving out or dying and in many cases being replaced with often somewhat disreputable renters. I guess if you actually bothered spending any real time in the parts of the city other than Elmwood or the Larkin district you'd find that out.
I see you still haven't actually proposed any ideas about how we can save S Buffalo. Too bad.
You write a negative comment on practically every BRO story. You would have mocked the Larkin Developer for investing in deralict empty factory buildings in a declining neighborhood. Now it is successfull an growing and you still can't find anything good to say.
Someone will eventually invest in this building and if they do it right it will be trasnformative. When it is done and it is beautiful you will have something negative to say about it.
I don't post negative things on every article. I ignore the 95% of articles on here that are pure fluff. I think that's your opinion that what I post when I do post is negative. Just because I refuse to only look at the parts of the city where there is progress being made doesn't mean I am always negative. If I only almost exclusively focused on Elmwood, parts of downtown, and Larkin like BRO does, I could convince myself that this city truly is turning the corner. But I can't do it. I think it does a disservice to the city to pat ourselves on the back while ignoring the fact the city (and region) is still in active decline. I like to challenge the dominant narrative on here in the hope that we can get serious discussion going about what meaningful things we can do that can help put this city that we both love back on the road to prosperity.
I think you've got it all wrong about me. I hope that somehow this building can be saved and restored to its former glory. After all, this is my part of the city, and I would love nothing more than to see South Buffalo change its downward trajectory before it's too late. I know I seem to have gotten you pretty fired up by pointing up that the state of the neighborhood is an impediment to this building being saved, which I am sure you would agree with?
I have admitted already that I have no idea how to counteract the demographic and socioeconomic changes that are negatively influencing the area, but I was kind of hoping you'd be able to enlighten us and tell us what we can realistically do. I'm still waiting....
If you hadn't included that "realistically" word, I might have suggested maybe our politicians could suggest migrating over to the Seneca St area as an idea to people living near the Peace Bridge who are worried about being near a truck border crossing.
Could be a win-win-win if that would result in less asthma in the city, lessen opposition to something that results in more efficient international commerce, and help give a boost to the Seneca St neighborhood with a bunch of new households. Maybe preservation advocates would even raise donations by Kickstarter to move the Wilkeson House from Busti over to one of those lots that were vacated by the demos around Seneca you mentioned.
Maybe too far outside the box?
It would not take Larkin sized development to turn this area around. Just a little leadership to make them develop better. They may demo a building here and there but the area does support retail, they just built a Dollar General with a big parking lot in front. If many of the run down storefronts where made a little more acceptable they might find tenants. Take a look at my pics linked above, the area still has a lot of character and could follow Hertel and Grant St in becoming smaller destinations. The area is actually vibrant considering whats there, and it doesn't take much imagination to see the potential if it was developed and marketed like Hertel and Grant.
So this is a little bit off topic, but I was surfing the web for Six Flags for some reason and came across an interesting building ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_Street_Power_Plant#section_2 )that reminded me of some off the vacant warehouses downtown. I realize that the building is a power plant but the idea of putting big stores like this closer to the city, and they could be grocery stores as well, was intriguing. The creative concept of how it was converted into a Six Flags also was awesome. I don't know the feasablility of something like this for the vacant warehouses here but it certinally is more economical than shoving a fishing store into a sacred piece of harbor land.
This terra cotta beauty could be so many things. It'd be a crime NOT to restore this gem.
A post about South Buffalo on Buffalo Rising? I'll be damned!
Thanks Steel for highlighting an area of Buffalo that is pretty much never highlighted.
Cool fact - Multiple people told me that The Clash played here back in the day when it was called The Sky Room.
You will note that this story has links to 3 other SB stories. There are more as well.
He has a point SB hardly ever gets covered, even the 3 you noted are from 2006, 2008 and the other still from the last site (2+ years?) doesn't show up.
Considering we get every detail of every tree planted in Elmwood many of us that live in the City (Yes South Buffalo is the CITY) would rather hear some things about our own neighborhood now and again.
Well the founder of the BRO lives in the Elmwood Village. He naturally wrights about what he knows. I Think I may have written maybe 8 to 10 stories on SB but frankly, SB is a quite sleepy mostly residential a part of town. Not a lot happens there. If you are from SB and want to write on SB for BRO I suggest you signup for the gig. BRO will cover SB if BRO knows about something interesting happening.
For more that I have written Google, "High on South Buffalo" , "Big Blue and The Haunted House" , "Southern Comfort" There have been stories about Mercy Hospital expansion, The mud race in Caz Park, stories on South Park. I did a story on the suspension bridge in Caz Park - "look up Simple Pleasures of an Architecture Junky". The Beth Steel building got a lot of recent attention - I know that is Lackawanna but it is still essentially SB. There have been stories about that historic house reno in SB. Stories about the cafe in Caz Park. I did a story on a renovated house just off the park but can't remember the title. Just googling South Buffalo Buffalorising.com brings up several stories.
I have read your previous stuff on South Buffalo, Steel. I thought they were thoughtful and enjoyed reading them. I think it's obvious that you care very deeply about Buffalo. In fact, I think you have posted more about South Buffalo than probably anyone else. You certainly have me beat.
I feel very strongly about South Buffalo and it pains me to see what's happening to it. But I don't know we can do to save it. Seneca Street, despite a few bright spots, is headed in the wrong direction. It has a couple of major problems. A lot of the houses are doubles, which in the traditional sense would imply an owner living in one and the other being rented ( or occasionally an extended family splitting the mortgage on both). But these are a problem because there is an overabundance of units available now. I have relatives who live in a double over by Mineral Springs ( I have mentioned them on here several times before). They live in the lower part of the double, and had a longtime tenant in the upper who died a couple of years back. Since then, they have had one tenant up there for a few years, but since they left, they have been afraid to rent it out for fear of what the market will bear. The house across the street, which formerly used to hold a couple of nice families, is now occupied by a family of section 8 renters, and the police are a constant presence there.
It used to be that uppers in particular were in demand among new families who wanted to stay in the neighborhood, so you could easily find someone to rent to who you knew you could trust, but that system is gone. The industrial jobs that used to support the men and their families who built South Buffalo are long gone. And now a large percentage of the population of this area is aging, and their kids are largely gone, having moved elsewhere in the area or country. When these people start dying, there is going to be a huge glut of units coming on the market with no one to take their place except renters from the East side and further down Seneca lured by the cheap rents. Poor maintenance on the old housing, combined with units being empty due to the surplus will lead to vacant houses, which will eventually become uneconomic to repair and will either burn down of have to be torn down. We have already seen this on the East Side, and unless we can figure out a way to stabilize this neighborhood and find motivated younger, well - educated people who want to live in a double and maintain it, the chances are this will happen to south Buffalo too.
With any specific housing issues in South Buffalo (like those you mention), I'd call Matt Fisher in the district Council office. It's one of his specific areas of concern. Tell him RaChaCha sent 'ya.
The last time someone mentioned RaChaCha to him they almost ended up with a faceful of fist.
But that's just a standard SoBo greeting.
I hear ya. The problem is directly related to poor planning at the city level(or Should I say no planning) and the regional choice to spread its wealth over a greater area than is warranted for the population.
A very strong new trend is toward dense vibrant urbanism. Buffalo can either jump on that train or let it pass by. Younger generations in strong numbers are choosing dense active urban cities and corporations are stating to respond to that. They need to be where the talent wants to be. If Buffalo does not start doing everything it can to activate urban areas like Seneca street it will miss the next big growth wave. This building is an important urban anchor that can be a catalyst for change in the neighborhood. The city has no catalog of important neighborhood anchors. It has no plan to bring back its neighborhood commercial centers. This needs to be done. Regional leaders in WNY think they can just sit around decade after decade doing the same messed up thing and that some day magically WNY will become prosperous and attractive. In the mean time perhaps one of Buffalo's smart new developers will notice the potential of a building like this here and have a desire and a vision to turn this area around.
Yes I know those aren't all ever written about So.Buff but even you have to admit it's under-reported on BRO. When was the last restaurant or cafe review of a place in South Buff? Caz Coffee closed recently after 7 years and only got 1 mention in the Dogears article. Green Valley Restaurant has never been mentioned. Blackthorn or Francesca's had like 1 article in 5 years compared to say the Black Rock Kitchen (which deserves time but just comparing)
I don't remember anything about the Brick Oven Bistro on Abbott http://www.brickovendeli.com/
We just got a new Dollar General that could have had articles about how much parking it had in front. That place is right across the street and has an impact on this article.
The mini tops had mention's as well when talking about urban shopping stores.
Caz Park has the only waterfall in Buffalo, that's worth a mention.
People like Matt Fisher should have a profile done about them and the actions they are taking to help make the neighborhood better.
I'm not even complaining about BRO directly but the general idea is SB isn't part of the City. It's the forgotten area, receiving less attention than even the East Side, and SB actually has potential to turn around much faster if given the proper attention (leadership and developers).
Same goes for the Olmsted Conservancy, having virtually no events at Caz Park. I understand the majority of people live near Delaware Park but not everyone, SB has a decent population and deserves at least %5 of the events the Conservancy puts on, or at least basic attention like cutting the trees in front of the crosswalk signs, adding pedestrian crossings at the bike paths that cross streets. I've lived nearly 40 years next to Caz and never seen the Casino open.
Imagine how cool it would be to tell tourists about more than 1 neighborhood to go visit?
So, why don't you start to cover the SB beat for BRO? I think many of us would enjoy reading it, and it sounds as though added coverage/exposure would highlight some of the issues the area is facing.
I'm sorry to hear about Caz cafe--I really liked that place.
Sounds like you would be a great BRO South Buffalo Correspondent!
I've had my share of BRO articles, not always the writer (technically never) but I do send ideas to Newell. Mostly BRO uses my videos, which are not So.Buff exclusive, but some are like http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/09/finn-mccool---you-should-have-been-there.html
Like I said this is more just speaking up so you guys know some of us would like So.Buff things covered. I still check BRO out nearly every day so I'm not hating but I wish everyone not just BRO looked at So.Buff as a part of the City. Take a bike ride down Abbott, or grab a coffee and take a walk on the trails around Cazenovia, or grab a Pint at one of the cool bars (or trashy ones, probably have better wings)
I think one way to make So.Buff more attractive would be more positive media attention.
Like I said, people write what they know. BRO is a participatory outlet. If people who live in and Know South Buffalo don't speak up and write then who will?
I wrote this article about Conlon's Bar & Grill when it first opened for BRO.
http://www.buffalorising.com/2010/03/conlons-bar-grill.html
Write up a couple stories on things going on and they will put it on the site, it's just that not many people take the time to submit stories about South Buffalo. Come on JM, I know you have interesting stories about SB, I've heard a few!
SB is great because you can get a serious bargain on a house and still live in a safe neighborhood. I lived there for 3 years but will eventually be leaving my apartment in The EV to buy a house there. It's a great place to live.
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Looks great. Thanks for the info.