Buffalo NY: One that got away
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Leave a commentIts also important to remember Bass pro dumped us, not us them. That 60 million offer sat on the despirate table for years. One Ruby not even good enough for them. How embarrassing is that.
Bass Pro dumped us ladyinwhite? Well I suppose it was them that walked away, but a small army of protesters actually frustrated planners and Bass Pro execs to the point that the deal died on the table, these stubborn few actually made it too difficult for Bass Pro do get their money so they walked away, because we didn't want them.
Oh please. Remember it as you wish. They danced around us for years without an answer. Nothing to do with your small group of protesters.
More like they gave up after we wouldn't allow them to extort more and more corporate welfare from us. True, we offered them a lot of breaks, but give us credit for not bending over backwards. Probably the real reason they didn't go ahead with it is because of the fragile economy over the last 4-5 years.
Bass Pro and many big retailers have been doing this for years and years, it's about time the truth has started to come out. I know Bass Pro pulled shenanigans like this in Hot Springs, AR and Baton Rouge, LA and probably many other towns.
Aaack Memphis!
"An indoors cypress swamp will be created in Memphis as part of the $215 million taxpayers are contributing toward the renovation of the Pyramid Arena into a Bass Pro Shop. This includes money the city plans to spend to provide supporting infrastructure for the building."
I was just going to mention Memphis...it's obscene but hilarious at the same time. I never thought a glass pyramid and a log cabin would look so handsome together..and what else would someone find inside but a cypress swamp!!
That Pyramid was also a giant magic bullet failure in Memphis built on a "build it and they will come" premiss. Needless to say they did not come.
At least it wasn't built in Niagara Falls...
i look at bass pro as a bullet dodged and an embarrassment averted. for once we did not shoot ourselves in the foot.
Couldn't agree more--sometimes Buffalo benefits by not being able to get our "brightest" of ideas off the ground. This was nothing more than a (pathetic) silver bullet and corporate welfare.
Though the waterfront may not be where many people hope it to be, it sure is a hell of a lot more interesting and well-rounded than one retail megastore.
Nobody was ever very specific at whom that magic bullet was aimed.
Personally, I'd have considered BP a jewel in our hicktown image rather than a crowning achievement. Same goes for Ikea, Trader Joes, Whole Foods... not bad to have in the tiara, but kind of pathetic if we wrap all our hopes and dreams around any one of them.
I think it's pathetic that we should think that a retail store will provide anyone with any sorts of hopes or dreams. Stores come and go, and we have no shortage of commercialism, even in Buffalo.
If there is a business sense to open a store in Buffalo, I'd welcome them. But they need to be treated like any other business, and they certainly should get no preferential treatment that will put existing smaller businesses in Buffalo at peril.
If anything, we should give preferences to the businesses that have been paying taxes and employing people in Buffalo for years and decades. If you need any sort of hope or dream, it should be with those who stuck by us through thick and thin, and are still able to manage a profit somehow.
I really don't care if anyone thinks that Buffalo is a hicktown. And luring a big box retailer, or even a dozen of them, isn't going to change anyone's opinion of Buffalo. And even if it DID, what benefit would accrue to Buffalo?
Please -- let's get out of this mindset that we are inferior because we don't have enough shopping.
Granted.
Our economy supports as much as we are able to buy and sell. But as always, that is determined by the cost and quality of what we have to offer.
As much as anyone, I would prefer that products made in our region were marketable to the rest of the world. But there's a new reality involved with the 21st century marketplace.
Customers from Hong Kong are willing to fly all the way to NYC to buy clothing manufactured in Zhejiang. The Mexican marketplace has a premium on Texan clothing made for the USA but produced in Granjas.
There was a time within my own memory when 'Made in the USA' meant quality, but now that ingenuity is vastly surpassed by German or Korean Craftsmanship.
It would be GREAT for our city if we were still cranking out Pierce Arrows and Kittengers. But we don't. We're lucky if one of our 3rd-ring suburbs has its name on a car radiator. Our neighbors in Rochester have an office tower that has become a verb every time they make a photocopy.
The 21st century is no longer about the manufacturing centers. Although they are thriving, we don't speak kindly of McAllen and Hyderabad but we are in awe of Singapore, London and Houston. Centers of trade, not the filthy unnamed and misrecognized places like Datang.
Buffalo was built upon its crossroads of commerce. We saw that develop as a manufacturing center, and then watched it decline because commerce bypassed us. If not for the Welland canal, would we still be ranked next to Singapore? If our rail and transportation network were upgraded, would we be the American version of Frankfurt?
Buffalo is a trading city that fell by the side when manufacturers came and went. We've lost our hold on trade but not irrevocably. We are one of the few places in the world that can and have successfully maintained a grasp on both manufacture AND trade. Either, if not both, are still within our grasp.
Thanks Bass Pro for the big hole you didn't want to develop where we spent a lot of money demolishing a historic building that you didn't want to reuse. You managed to reject our subsidy and still damage our city.
the key in all this is to demonize corporations; they are evil and Buffalo does not need you. Let's go Buffalo!
How is it demonizing to point out the massive corporate welfare they are demanding from the taxpayers?
I guess it's not when they are continually branded as devils. Good point. Buy local, be local (except you, of course).
Didn't Carl Paladino write a letter saying how Buffalo really missed out on not getting Bass Pro down to the waterfront?
On a related note on Paladino, what is that billboard about that says something about who he wants to be removed from government, etc.?
I don't know about the letter, but you're correct about Paladino publicly advocating in favor of the Bass Pro corporate welfare very strongly - as did for many years a lot of elected officials of both parties and their appointed bureaucrats as emslieclinton's comment mentioned.
However, Paladino's billboard doesn't bother me - free speech - and he isn't always on the wrong side about everything like he was about Bass Pro.
It would be nice if the public opinion against corporate welfare for Bass Pro could also result in just fully ending taxpayer gifts or special tax forgiveness, etc for all retail, restaurants, hotels, residential especially upscale apts/condos, sports teams, technology startups, data centers, etc., etc. … but unfortunately, it's still happens.
Why wouldnt Paladino advocate for Bass Pro...he wanted the rights to the associated hotel and parking complex.
It may not have been good business for Buffalo but even if Bass Pro failed...Paladino would have had a subsidized hotel and parking garage within distance of the Canal District and Light Rail.
Both of which would have stayed to service whatever replaced BassPro.
From Paladino or any local businessman, that is just good business.
From Buffalo and Buffalonians...not so much.
I think a large multi-use building modelled on the original Spaulding Mercantile is the best option. If a big retailer comes downtown then they can take the space...if not then parse it up for mixed use retail/office/residence.
Thats how cities get built...for flexible space. All this building and designing for specific venues is the height of stupidity. Buffalo can excell at stupidity.
Ok yes for some reason I remember a letter, but I don't remember exactly. Yes I agree about the billboard, but it just seemed odd.
However I don't 100% agree with you about the "tax forgiveness". I believe as a city like Buffalo we need to do things (through government) to make it more enticing for businesses and people to live/work/spend money in our area. I don't agree with all of the methods used to do this, but some of them I believe are good, and make are community more desirable (or more revenue through other taxes). Although it does put public money in the hands of the wealthy (sometimes), which I do not entirely agree with because I think, again sometimes, that they are just being greedy and looking for more profit..
"need to do things (through government) to make it more enticing for businesses and people to live/work/spend money in our area."
I just think the "things" could be different things that are more appropriate things for governments to be doing than trying to pick a small number of private sector winners (or favorites) from among all taxpayers to receive $ that has to end up being paid by everyone else.
While I realize a lot of people agree with Paladino, etc in favor of corp welfare, my view is it does more harm than good. In most cases the area's pie doesn't grow, but just gets shifted around toward some businesses or buildings and away from others around here. The area's total amount of consumer spending doesn't grow as result of the corp welfare.
Bass Pro would have been a great example of the dumbness, IMO. Almost all of the spending there would be by NY state residents spending there instead of with other retailers in NYS, so it wouldn't have been sensible for millions of NYS taxpayer $ to pay for constructing Bass Pro's store building. Yeah, some customers would have been motivated to travel to here from out of state because of Bass Pro (they do have some fanatic customers), but I really doubt enough would come here often enough to justify the use of taxpayer $. Even worse for things that clearly don't draw anything from outside the state or county - Premier Wines, Pizza Plant, One Sunset, Chef's, Gigi's, Paladino's upscale condos, … on and on - all of it, really.
I honestly never understood what was so amazing about Bass Pro anyway. It just sounds to me like a giant EMS or something. I'm really glad they have different (and in my opinion BETTER) plans for the waterfront.
I can remember thinking that the Bass Pro sounded like a neat idea at the time. What got me off the band wagon was a completely random conversation I had with a medical school buddy from Baton Rouge. I don't remember how we got on the topic ( I would imagine we were comparing the merits of our various hometowns) when he started telling me about the money Baton Rouge was going to give them to build a store there. If I didn't know better, I could have thought he was talking about Buffalo. It sounded like the exact same situation. After that, I could never get it out of my head that Bass Pro had basically made a business out of trying to extract money from various locations around the country who were somewhat desperately trying to drum up interest from national retailers. I was very happy when that racket fell though by the end. It really sounds like it would have been a bad deal on Buffalo's part. Especially since a Bass Pro isn't really all that much more amazing than a lot of places, and there was no guaranty that the place wouldn't close up shop after a short while.
I tend to think that Bass Pro did us a favor here in Buffalo in a way. I think it forced a change in thinking about how to go about developing our water front. It's a shame it took us so long to figure it out before the deal fell through, but I hope we don't ultimately waste our time, resources, and effort on such silver bullet efforts again in the future.
Bass Pro like the Niagara falls casino not a silver bullet just a slug to the head.
Facts: The Traveling Barber on Elmwood was the first to realize that the Inner/Outer Harbor and Canalside were ripe for development. In fact, most of what you see down there today is in keeping with his vision. In addition, he designed Front Park and came up with the original idea for what would become Star Wars. He also has Obama's original Indonesian birth certificate at the shop. Go check it out if you don't believe me.
no bas pro means that a lot of polititions get no kickbacks from them !!!
The only sad thing is that the Canal Side planners didn't have an alternative for Bass Pro. To me, that signifies a certain 'rube element' among them. There are plenty of possibilities from IMAX cinema complexes to CityTarget. By now, Canal Side should be open and pumping tax revenues into the city. Instead there's just a vacant lot and a lot of smug, self-congratulatory attitudes.
thank you. anyone remember breckenridge brew pub? government is good at several things, but picking retail winners is not one of them.
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It is important to remember the names of the men who were pushing this boondoggle. Among them, Jordan Levy, Larry Quinn, Bob Rich, and Tony Masiello who said, "more people will visit Bass Pro than the Eiffel Tower". Thank you Mark Goldman and Tim Tielman!
And precisely how did Tielman do that? last I remember it was Higgins who told them to S.... or get off the pot.
I think that about sums up the Buffalo News and the Congressman's narrative of the events. Heaven forbid that a "citizen's choice" story line should emerge ie. one that says informed WNY residents soundly rejected the proposed corporate welfare subsidies offered to Bass Pro.
Come on now. Let's be fair and give a little credit where credit is due. If it wasn't for Higgins there wouldn't be money to make canalside a reality. It was his idea, and threat of legislation that forced the NYPA into negotiations to pay for Niagara water usage. That ended up providing the 300milllion to fund the project.
They created a community forum and engaged the public for the first time, really. They asked the public what it wants done with the waterfront. This was, evidently, a revolutionary concept (to prioritize the public interest over that of a corporation).
Somehow, someway, the public's benefit had not really been taken into consideration prior to that point.
They engaged the Partnership for Public Spaces, a world-renowned non-profit, to come to Buffalo to help envision a usable, public-first waterfront (again, by leveraging feedback from the public). They indoctrinated the concept of "lighter, quicker, cheaper", so as to get things actually moving (30+ years was long enough to wait for anything to happen).
This forced a mindshift at the ECHDC, and clamoring voice which could not be denied. The development has been on an increasingly-positive bent ever since (though I do not see Benderson's development in that category....still a vestige from the previous ECHDC's ties).