Real Estate August 15, 2012 12:00 AM

High Rise Office Cubicles Out, Stainless Steel Appliances In

High Rise Office Cubicles Out, Stainless Steel Appliances In

A virtually vacant, forty year old office tower is getting remade for residential purposes.  No, not One HSBC Center, but 100 Van Ness Avenue, a somewhat similar building in San Francisco.  It is an example of a high rise being repositioned as a market changes.

Buffalo's One HSBC Center is in flux.  HSBC Bank currently leases 650,000 sq.ft. in the 852,000 sq.ft. tower but that lease expires in October 2013.  The bank has reorganized its U.S. operations and has not publicly announced if it will be renewing, shrinking or vacating all of its space in the tower.  Other tenants have announced plans to leave including the Canadian Consulate, law firm Phillips Lytle, and Capital One Financial.  Potentially, the tower could be 90 percent vacant in just 14 months.  It is a scary proposition for a downtown market that sees about 200,000 sq.ft. of office space absorbed in an average year.

HSBC_0144.JPGTower owner Seneca One Realty LLC has begun exploring options including adding residential and/or hotel space to the building.  Redevelopment of former office buildings is commonplace elsewhere and has accelerated locally.  Uniland Development converted the former Dulski Federal Office Building on Delaware Avenue into Avant, a mix of office, hotel and upscale condominiums.  Benderson Development is putting offices, retail and a Courtyard by Marriott into the former Donovan State Office Building at the foot of Main Street.

Converting a 38-story building, nearly four times the size of Avant would be a significant undertaking.  The cost of a conversion is hefty and the market for what could be several hundred residential units and/or hotel rooms is suspect. 

100vanness1.JPG100VN2.JPGIn San Francisco, Emerald Fund, Inc. and National Real Estate Advisors are converting the 29-story former California State Automobile Association headquarters building into 399 apartments.  While the San Francisco residential market is exponentially stronger and deeper than Buffalo's, the project is an example of how a new façade and use can change the identity of a worn building.

One HSBC Center and the San Francisco building were completed within one year of each other (1972-1973).  The San Francisco building is currently 96 percent vacant and is located in the Civic Center area where the market for office space is weak. 

The proposed renovation would result in 399 residential units and consists of interior renovations and re-skinning of the building's exterior with a contemporary glass curtain wall system.  The goal of the contemporary curtain wall design would be to allow the building to "express a modern residential expression" according to the development application.  6,884 sq.ft. of ground floor retail will be available.  Parking for 118 cars is provided and the developers would be adding 134 bicycle parking spaces.  A second floor fitness center and a 12,000 sq.ft. rooftop common area is planned for residents.  The San Francisco office of architecture firm Solomon Cordwell Buenz is working on the project which is expected to take 19 months.100VNplans.JPG100 Van Ness is slightly shorter than One HSBC Center but nearly half the size: 852,000 vs 408,000 sq.ft.  The rectangular floors of 100 Van Ness are suitable for a residential layout, One HSBC's big, square floors are more of a challenge.  Each building's height and views make them an ideal conversion candidate. 

It will be an interesting year for Buffalo's tallest building.  HSBC will be announcing what presence, if any, it will keep in the building and Seneca One Realty will need to decide whether to invest in the property or sell it. 

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I work in this building. It is a dated office building. Converting at least some of it to residential is a good idea. They already have a separate elevator bank going to the top floors. And it does need a reskin.

Score: 12 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This is the problem with skyscrapers when they become too big to lease, and too expensive to demolish. If material resources (especially oil) and availability of capital become increasingly scarce in the future, these buildings may become a real problem for cities.

In many ways, I'm glad Buffalo isn't burdened with too many modern skyscrapers. I don't think the future looks promising for them at all.

Score: 4 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Is that you, Kunstler?

replied to JSmith
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Ha ha... No, but he is the one who got me thinking about the problem, and I largely agree with his analysis of it.

replied to townline
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It's unfortunate that the Canadian Consulate is moving out. I worked security here and they spent a year renovating the space. Spent lots of money too. Hopefully some apartments go in there though!

Score: 8 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Yeah, a reclad like the one in San Francisco would be really nice, whatever use is chosen for the Marine Midland Tower (HSBC should never be uttered in this town again).

But I predict that downtown office space will be much in demand in the future as more employees choose urban lifestyles over the sterility of the 'burbs.

Score: 13 ( 15 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Yeah, better not say the name of a company that employs 4000+ people downtown. Sigh. If (when?) HSBC pulls out of downtown, complain all you want. But your comments currently are premature at best.

replied to sonyactivision
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It's about more than just a building or 4000 employees. When HSBC bought Marine Midland, Buffalo lost a major local lender and all the parochial charm and REGIONAL MARKET FOCUS that implies. Aside from the token "corporate citizenship" crap, big multinational banks don't give a damn about the cities they operate in. They only care about capital markets.

replied to Slu
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My bet is that it stays primarily an office building, though even partial conversion to residential or hotel(?) would be welcome.

Yes, the tower is losing these tenants, but overall it's still ritzier space than 70% of downtown. There's nothing standing between complete vacancy and 95% occupancy that price couldn't fix. Price it like a 'b' building and watch it fill up. It's skated by for decades claiming to be Buffalo's only 'a' space. It's more tired than 'a'. But it beats lots of other choices.

Of course, that lower price structure would likely require a foreclosure and bank haircut before it becomes feasible, so there might be turbulence ahead.

If this building lowers rents and scoops up tenants from 'b' and 'c' buildings downtown, maybe those other buildings will be candidates for residential.

FWIW: If I were wealthy enough to buy a prestigious condo downtown, I'd choose the Avant over HSBC. For location, but also for height (assuming the idea would be to put condos on the top floors). HSBC is far taller, obviously, than Avant and you'd think that would be a big plus.

But because everything else in town is smaller, the height of HSBC actually turns into a bit of a negative, imho. The view from the top floor (used to be a restaurant open to the public) makes Buffalo look painfully small, as you tower over everything else. By contrast, from the view out the windows of buildings with floors in, say, the teens, downtown tends to look bigger. You've got more neighbors, more other buildings to look at 'over there' instead of 'down there'.

I'm skeptical that residential will be built in HSBC because of the cost. The Avant developers could only make the numbers work, we were assured, if they were given the shell for a song. How does this building (HSBC), with a huge mortgage nut, compete?

Score: 11 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

It's hard to get a date when you have a "bank haircut".

replied to biniszkiewicz
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So true. Landlords are notoriously stubborn when it comes to lowering rent. They would rather a space sit vacant for months, even years, then lower the price and allow a tenant to move in today.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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The building was purchased for $85 million plus $10 million for adjacent parking structures in 2005ish. The current market price is around $35-40 million before tenants dropped like flies. See Bini's comments. This one is going to be tied up for awhile.

Score: 3 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The winds from Lake Erie cause MMC to sway and creak and groan against its solid elevator shafts. I've worked there, and it's a scary, unpleasant "feature". Any residential use will be quashed by the fear caused by frightening noises - beside the fact that's in the middle of absolutely nothing.

Score: -23 ( 31 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This is ridiculous and patently false. I am in the building every day.

replied to MrGreenJeans
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No, it is NOT "false" - it is an absolute fact. I worked on the 13th Floor from 1990 to 1994, and every wind storm caused the whole place to sway, with resultant creaks & groans the entire time. The outer shell is on a steel frame, while the elevator shafts are housed with solid masonry. The result is: a flexible exterior, grinding against inflexible solid fireproof shafts.

replied to Slu
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Again, 100% false. I work on the 13th floor right now and have for the last several years. The building has never "swayed" because of high winds. The only time I felt anything was when we had that earthquake a few years back. And I have never heard anyone say anything about the building moving. Either you have extreme sensitivity to movement, are imagining things, have mis-remembered, or have some other motive for saying this, but it is not accurate in any way.

replied to MrGreenJeans
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When Sears moved out of the "Sears" now "Willis Tower" Chicago they took advantage of the Continental/United merger to consolidate their operation from Houston and the 'burbs of Chicago to Downtown Chicago.

The information about HSBC has been in the cards for months and by the time HSBC moves out it will be years.

I don't get the feeling that local leaders have a grasp on what is happening. A bail out of Seneca one would be stupid. The city should be pushing for them to divest and make the building reasonable to rent for tenants.

Score: 10 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Buffalo is not Chicago.

replied to Chris
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It seems to me, as well, that residential and/or hospitality will be part of the reuse equation for HSBC Tow...oops, I mean Marine Midland Center (sorry, Sony).

That's one of the reasons I'm concerned about the residential and especially all the hospitality space included in both of the Webster Block proposals.

The likely vacancy of The Tower, especially, in addition to announcements of new hotel projects like weekly, makes me wonder if we shouldn't be looking at actively discouraging "new build" hotel space until we get a better idea how much existing space we'll be converting to hospitality. And how much hospitality space the local market can really, realistically absorb. If we get ourselves into a local hospitality "bubble" situation, and the bubble bursts, that would have a very negative impact on adaptive reuse of older buildings, especially downtown -- including The Tower. Right at the time we're looking to things like the Buffalo Building Reuse Project and the increased per-project cap for the NY preservation tax credits to advance adaptive reuse of older buildings, especially downtown.

Is anyone thinking this all through--?!

Score: 5 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I made this same comment in regards to the Webb hotel announcement--there seems to be a real herd mentality into hotels right now, and I don't get the sense that there is any leadership/collective view guiding the direction of downtown (quelle suprise).

replied to RaChaCha
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Like I said in the other thread about the Webb, 32 rooms isn't go to change anything in the hospitality world. I could see your point with the Webster block but the small specialized boutique hotels aren't really saturating the market in my opinion.

replied to Travelrrr
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What right does the City of Buffalo have to "discourage" hotels that are built with private money? If they don't work out, they will eventually get converted into apartments, I'm sure.

The city's role should be to work out where (very broadly) hotels are appropriate, and zone the city accordingly. The Green Code is doing that (and I believe it allows hotels in more places than the current code). That's about all the city should really be concerned with.

replied to RaChaCha
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I'm tired of buildings being reskinned in glass. Boring. Does little for the interior, and its a waste of materials. And for this building, with considerably inset windows, the new windows will not be flush with the inside of the exterior walls, so not pleasing on the inside. I wonder if there are examples of something more creative being done to freshen up the appearance of a building like this. Make it an Infringement project?

Score: -7 ( 21 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

It's not a bad looking building. It's just at that age, those awkward tween years: decades past new but not yet old enough to be embraced. I think this exterior design will stand the test of time better than most from its era. Personally, I hope it doesn't get re-skinned. 100 years from now, people might be thankful.

Score: 11 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I agree. Keep the exterior. Re-cladding it would be a waste of money. If they want to transform this into a chic address, they should invest in the building's interiors and preserve the exterior. Maybe they can look to the previous generation of SOM buildings for inspiration. The Lever House is another "dated" SOM building that hosts amazing exhibitions of contemporary are in its lobby and courtyard. http://leverhouseartcollection.com/

It proves that a not-yet-historic "dated" building can be comfortable in its own skin.

replied to biniszkiewicz
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Dont worry about a Bubble in Hotels? Im not.

Its very easy and inexpensive to go from Hotel Rooms to studio apartments or 1-2 bedroom apartments. The plumbing is already there for bathrooms. Bathroom plumbing has the drain, hot and cold for a kitchen...just plug the toilet.

There is expense but if your gutting a building to bring it up to code for a hotel room...the majority of your hard expensive work is done. Your just moving walls.

Strip all the walls and you have office space.

HSBC Tower could use a reskin and even an expansion at the base but its flaw was that it was built directly over Main Street. It destroyed and disconnected the ability to look down Main Street and see the waterfront.

Hyatt Atrium and City Court both block Genessee Street from the Waterfront.

The Niagara Expressway and Waterfront Village block the northern part of downtown from the waterfront.

From a master planning point of view, the city has isolated itself its waterfront in very longterm permanent ways which makes Canalside so important and so special.

Score: 0 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Boutique hotels are inherently a good thing..as stated above 32 rooms are not going to be a game changer. Boutique hotel guests are often more discerning as far as product and service goes..more upscale over all and its reflected in their room rates. ($$$$$)

A lot of the noise comes from hotel owners that are operating on flawed models/facilities..the Hyatt (we're not a convention city)..and the Adam's Mark. (when are we changing the name...) If Buffalo/Erie county ever decides to run with tourism and hospitality they'll soon realize we do not have an appropriate amount of rooms to handle (larger) small events or medium ones. Its a case of..if its not built..then they can't come..even if they want too.

Anywhoo...Downtown is not ready for HSBC..too goo! If they went residental..you can forget about anything happening with the Statler or the Curtis building...or anywhere else for that matter..all markets would be flooded.

I remember seeing a news anchor state that the primary concern would be an emptying of office space in the suburbs..with businesses moving Downtown to take advantage of dirt cheap rates Seneca One would be offering to fill the building again. I personally don't think it would be a possibility..but I couldn't help but chuckle at the potential for role reversal.

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tear it down and rebuild something else

Score: -7 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

If anything, they should work on the lower section where Main Street and the Light Rain run under it I think. A lot of building in Midtown Manhattan especially I've noticed consist of these not-too-pretty skyscrapers but with modern lobbies and atriums. Overall, I think it does a lot for the building. I know for me that I would rather walk into a nice, glass, modern lobby to my work rather than a giant slab of brown...

Score: 4 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Gee, I'm glad I didn't miss this article! When I saw that first picture it reminds me of the Center downtown, but then I realized that it wasn't the center. I have no problem with the tower being reskined. It is a symbol of Buffalo in a way and we need to protect it. The problem is that this comment makes it seem vacant, and once again what is the likelyness of this happening around here anytime soon? Last I checked HSBC has no plans of leaving, and they say they are maintaining the building as their commerce hub. So, it's good to have a plan in place when they do pack their bags but it is kindof premature.

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I'm going to sound naive with this. But is it even a close to being a done deal about HSBC moving from the tower?

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I don't think they're close to making a public decision. The lease runs out in 2013 and they will most likely keep their decisions private until it closer to that date.


Even if they do decide to leave, it doesn't necessarily mean the office will be empty the next day. HSBC could decide to leave, but then sign a short-term lease for a smaller footprint. I'm sure the building owners wouldn't frown on that given that they need time to find new tenants anyway. (all just guesses here...)

replied to Tom
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Ok yea that makes sense thanks.

replied to 300miles
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As I recall Seneca One's purchase price made it so that lower rents would be unsustainable.

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Detour ─ I haven’t abandoned my suggestion for the HSBC to be a sports entertainment center, if vacated.

There could be the usual and unusual offerings. (Examples: ping pong, handball, volley ball, bowling, squash, roller skating, billiards, fencing, tennis, play/sports areas for children, simulated golf, rock climbing, etc.)

Include a fitness center geared to senior citizens and a space designed for physically challenged individuals. Perhaps have a section for karate, dance, ballet, etc. instruction.

Who knows? Some of the insurance companies, that are promoting wellness, might come on-board and utilize some footage in complement to sports/fitness.

Hmm! What about an exercise spot for dogs? How about office areas restricted to chiropractors and physical therapists only? OK! OK! I’ll stop here. My keyboard is overheating.

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I say paint the tower white and you will see a MAJOR aesthetic change. Downtown is a sandcastle with numerous buildings taking on this type of tan color-scheme. A white skyscraper would freshen up the skyline as a whole and give it a clean look. Also- Put some lighting on the top...something like Main Place or M&T. Give it more dominance and presence in the skyline!

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This is virtually what we have to do now that we are virtually vacant.

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