City August 8, 2012 12:01 AM

Dump Trucks Don't Impress Casino Opponents

Dump Trucks Don’t Impress Casino Opponents
Buffalo Rising
Buffalo Rising 19
Counsel for the Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County issued a stern reminder yesterday in a letter to the attorney representing the Seneca Nation of Indians with respect to the Tribe's plans announced last Wednesday to proceed with the construction of a $130 million permanent casino in downtown Buffalo despite ongoing litigation in Federal court challenging its legality. 

The anti-gambling coalition's attorney, Cornelius D. Murray, noted that the same court had already struck down two previous approvals of such gambling by the National Indian Gaming Commission ("NIGC"). On July 25 the court issued a final briefing schedule before issuing a determination with respect to the NIGC's latest attempt to get around the Court's prior rulings. The Senecas' attorney was in court when the court issued the scheduling order, just one week before the Tribe's announcement on August 1.

"It's remarkable," Murray said, "that the Tribe would presume to move forward as if the Court's decision won't matter one way or the other. Without advising the court of their plans, the Senecas have apparently adopted a 'damn the torpedoes' approach. I can't imagine putting that amount of money at risk before knowing how the judge will rule." Murray added.  

"This project has been on-again, off-again, ever since the Senecas announced a $330 million project with a 22-story hotel and parking garage nearly five years ago. This latest proposal is a significant scale-back, but it still involves over $130 million. "At the very least, the more prudent course for everyone would be to wait and see how Judge Skretny decides," Murray said.

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hamp
August 8, 2012 6:35 AM
hamp


I'm glad "Citizens" is continuing the fight against the Buffalo casino. Too many people, including Mayor Brown, "Visit Buffalo Niagara", BNE, etc have been silent on this.

The casino as now proposed, is an embarrassment to the city and to all the good development that is going on downtown.

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Tim
August 8, 2012 10:05 AM
Tim

While I was opposed to the mammoth casino resort, I'm really neutral on this because they only have one restaurant and no hotel. I don't see this having a negative effect on downtown businesses anymore. My only gripe is that it is in its own literal island. And I'm guessing there won't be poker tables : (

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longgone
August 8, 2012 3:22 PM
longgone

Agree and fair take on the casino.

The island can be changed over time. The lots fronting South Park could easily hold a tower down the line.

This really has become about people who want to control other peoples money..both the consumer and developer.

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RaChaCha
August 8, 2012 6:50 AM
RaChaCha

...and it didn't take the Senecas long to fire back:
http://wnymedia.net/2012/08/seneca-statement-on-cacgc-letter

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Steve Bell
August 8, 2012 7:36 AM
Steve Bell


Seneca Nation President’s Statement on
CACGEC Letter to the Nation

ALLEGANY TERRITORY, Salamanca, NY August 7, 2012 – Seneca Nation President Robert Odawi Porter released the following statement today about a letter received from opponents of the U.S. government’s approvals that paved the way for construction of the $130 million Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino:
“The Seneca Nation is operating its Buffalo Creek Casino in accordance with applicable federal and Nation laws and will continue to do so. As with our other casino properties, where some 3,700 people found good jobs, Buffalo Creek will help the city and provide 500 new jobs for the region’s people.
“We remain confident that the U.S. Justice Department will prevail in this lawsuit and that our new, $130 million casino, with great input from the surrounding waterfront community, will open in 14 months, adding to the appeal of Buffalo’s burgeoning Canalside area.”
“In the meantime, we’d suggest that the plaintiffs shift their efforts away from attacking legitimate economic development in Buffalo and the Seneca Nation’s positive efforts to contribute to improving our home. They should stop trying to turn back the clock on progress and investment in Buffalo.”

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hamp
August 8, 2012 7:50 AM
hamp

The Seneca's gambling hall, a cheap building surrounded by a sea of asphalt is insulting to our great city. Calling it "legitimate economic development" is a joke. The project is awful for the city and should be stopped.

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Travelrrr
August 8, 2012 7:59 AM
Travelrrr

Oh, the old/effective "turn back the clock on progress" argument--that is a good spin.

Could it be that many of us just don't see a suburban mall-of-a-casino, which will likely only be frequented by local folk (who can't afford to gamble in the first place), as "progress"?

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whatever
August 8, 2012 11:24 PM
whatever

trav>"which will likely only be frequented by local folk (who can't afford to gamble in the first place)"

Funny how in the many posts on here about businesses who sell potentially addictive alcohol products there aren't nanny-style comments like that one which generalizes that 'local' residents here can't possibly afford to ever be customers at a casino.

It's used as an argument against the Senecas but never against any bars, beer stores, wine stores, microbreweries, brewfests, etc.

Interesting double standard.

And btw - about those only-local-folk, none of whom can afford ever being customers at a casino according to some of you...
did you notice this a couple months ago in Business First?
http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/print-edition/2012/06/08/ft-erie-closing-ups-visitors-to.html
"Fort Erie closing ups visitors to Buffalo casino
by James Fink, Buffalo Business First Reporter
Friday, June 8, 2012

In the past month, the number of patrons visiting the downtown Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino has increased and officials of Seneca Gaming Corp. think they know why. The April 30 closing of the slot-machine operations at Fort Erie Race Track is bringing more people through the doors.

Jim Wise, Seneca Gaming senior vice president, said the number of visits rose “by the high single digits” in the last month. “It’s probably somewhere in the 8 percent or 9 percent range,” he said. “But it’s probably more than just Fort Erie closing. There’s more than likely a number of reasons.”

According to Wise, Seneca Gaming launched a targeted marketing campaign in Fort Erie and other parts of Southern Ontario that included perks for Canadians who come and visit Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino.
...
Buffalo-area residents accounted for as much as 25 percent of those who frequented the Fort Erie slots operations. The Ontario Lottery & Gaming Corp. closed the slots as part of a systemwide restructuring.
...
Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino, which opened in July 2007 in a temporary venue off Scott Street, has 457 slot machines and attracts more than 750,000 visitors annually. ..."

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hamp
August 8, 2012 8:29 AM
hamp

The Seneca's agreement with the state is for a "resort style" casino and hotel that will attract visitors (and money) from outside the region. The proposed gambling hall will not attract outside money, and will leave the city with all the problems associated with gambling, with very few benefits.


The proposed downtown casino violates the agreement with the state.
Another reason to stop it.

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whatever
August 8, 2012 11:05 PM
whatever

hamp, this looks like a serious charge you're accusing them of. Which section exactly are you saying this proposed casino violates?

hamp>"The proposed downtown casino violates the agreement with the state."

Here's a convenient link to the full 2002 agreement between the Senecas and NY state. http://sni.org/media/2940/gaming.pdf
Buffalo is mentioned on pages 15 and 16, by the way.

I'm sure you wouldn't carelessly toss around a serious accusation against the Senecas like that without being able to say what it is in there that you're claiming this casino would violate, so feel free to just share with everyone what page or section you're referring to. You can help us become less ignorant about this.

[... should the crickets start warming up? just asking, lol ...]

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whatever
August 10, 2012 11:58 PM
whatever

Okay, cue the crickets for hamp. No specific about how exactly the Seneca downtown casino would allegedly violate the agreement with NYS - just a vague claim tossed out there.

Interesting how some progressives make such unfounded accusations against a minority group like the Senecas.

Meanwhile, NYS opens NYS-owned casinos in Hamburg and Batavia.

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ohnobuffalo
August 8, 2012 10:13 AM
ohnobuffalo

The casino is perfect!

Think about this

Pegula project is approved and a multi-level hockey rink and other misc items are built

People from outside WNY will come DT and stay, they will have the option of visiting the casino and spending $$ [BAD}

The good - they can't stay at the hotel [no rooms] so they will stay DT and at least have some entertainment, opposed to no options in the winter.

Since they aren't rooming at the casino they won't eat the crappy food either and then they will dine outside.

Smaller, quicker, faster, CANALSIDE

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DeanerPPX
August 8, 2012 8:39 PM
DeanerPPX

For the short term, this is exactly true! One of the ongoing complaints against evertything-under-one-roof resorts is that visitors never leave that single roof.

By omitting the hotel and giving limited choices on food, the Senecas are actually being good neighbors by sharing some of the side business with existing DT hotels and restaurants. By, in effect, forcing people to leave the building to get to their dinner or room, visitors will have extra incentive to wander and explore Canalside and downtown.

The Senecas aren't dummies, though. That parking lot on the south side of their property is just big enough to build a hotel tower at a later date. Perhaps they are gauging how the rest of Canalside's development turns out before they commit to a low, medium or high-rise hotel. If the city falls on its face and the area never gets built to expectations, they can leave it as a parking lot or put in a 30-room motel. If Canalside takes off big in 10-20 years, they can add a more appropriate 20 story luxury hotel with banquet rooms and convention amenities. Same with the front lot if they decide to expand the gaming rooms. Even that parking ramp can be expanded upward.

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rubagreta
August 8, 2012 12:52 PM
rubagreta

No casino means a blighted vacant lot for decades. But for some reason, there are many people who prefer this blight over an imperfect development (surface parking, boring architecture, blah, blah, blah).

And there are people who actually believe that if this casino creates 600 jobs, 600 jobs will be lost elsewhere. Documentation, please?

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brownteeth
August 8, 2012 1:27 PM
brownteeth

Like I said in the other thread, nearly 80,000 people will be tailgating at the Bills home opener handing their money over to a billionaire who funnels it out of town, invests zero into the team and stadium, accepts money via us tax payers for the stadium that makes him richer, all while we are the butt of the NFL jokes. How is this worse or even different?

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hamp
August 8, 2012 1:54 PM
hamp


There are a lot of differences.

The Bills are part of the identity of Buffalo and WNY. They add to the vitality and sense of community we have here. Not true for the downtown casino.

While a lot of the money from football tickets leaves the area, for each Bills home game there are hundreds of hotel rooms booked with out of town players and guests, restaurants full of visitors, hundreds of jobs in the stadium and related to the game. This is a huge boost to the local economy. Not true for the casino.

Each Bills game is a huge positive marketing tool for Buffalo and all of WNY. This is how many people across the country and world become aware of Buffalo. Not true for the casino.

The Bills, their players and foundations donate millions of dollars each year to the community. Not true for the casino.

Bills ticket sales, merchandise, and other saleable items, along with all the products the Bills purchase are taxable. The Bills generate millions of dollars in sales taxes for Erie County. Not true for the Casino.

Each Bills broadcast, the back office , camp, scouting, etc. require hundreds of technicians and workers. Related telecasts, radio broadcasts, video production suppliers, data analysts, computer techs, require the work of hundreds of local employees. These are good paying jobs.

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brownteeth
August 8, 2012 2:20 PM
brownteeth

Yeah the Bills losing over half of their games every season and losing 4 superbowls straight is a real positive image sender for the world. I'm not suggesting the casino will be some sort of magic wand that will draw people to our city.

The whole point is that its all personal preference on how to spend your money. The difference is that the casino, though doesn't pay any taxes, doesn't ask for money either, so there's no risk on our part other than handing them a wasteland piece of property. I don't think we have anything to lose by letting them do what they want so to speak.

Right now the Bills are in the process of negotiating a lease with the county which will include a shit ton of money paid through taxes for stadium maintenance/upgrades. The best part is the NFL commissioner can't even guarantee the team will stay in WNY after Wilson dies, yet you have an issue with the Senecas spending their own money to actually build something in a blighted part of town.

Why aren't these concerned citizens concerned about how Ralph Wilson is raping WNY? Instead they focus on some stupid casino that no one will even blink an eye at in 5 years. Get over it, we have bigger issues than a legal technicality.

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Rand503
August 8, 2012 11:32 PM
Rand503

For starters, It's well documented that the presence of casinos increases crime in the local community and increases welfare participants. There is not one community in the US outside of Las Vegas that is thriving due to casino gambling. Atlantic City is still a shithole and all those casinos have done nothing for the city.

If you think that small casino is going to provide jobs, think again. Most jobs are well under $10 buck an hour. There is no way you can call that a decent living. As a result, turnover at most casinos is very high, just like at call centers. (Remember those: They were supposed to turn the city around as well. Didn't happen).

I'm really tired of these arguments that casinos are so much better than nothing. They are not -- there are deep costs involved with their presence. If you still want one, go ahead an support it, but have a back up plan for all the negatives that flow from a casino. Just don't ignore them, and please don't ask to ignore them either.

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brownteeth
August 9, 2012 8:44 AM
brownteeth

I don't think anyone here is claiming that this casino will be some sort of catalyst for change downtown. In fact I don't think it will have a major impact one way or another which is why I'm laissez faire about the whole thing.

As for the jobs argument, in our economy with the unemployment rate so high I don't think it's wise to block any business thats employing 600 new jobs, even if some or most are low paying. Some people will never hold a job because of their work ethic or lack there of. Many people don't want to invest the time to work their way up the ranks from $10/hr to more. No business is going to change people's attitude towards working and earning their way so why blame a casino for it?

By the way, my family runs a small business in Lackawanna that employs almost 30 people, those employees would be thrilled to make $10/hr. Unfortunately our business and overhead simply doesn't allow for it. I wouldn't be so quick to turn your nose up at $10/hr, for many thats a 25% pay increase.

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