Real Estate July 12, 2012 6:15 PM

Plans Revised for Cloister Site

Plans Revised for Cloister Site

Plans for the former Cloister site at Delaware Avenue and Virginia Street have been revised.  Property owner Scott Croce has brought on architect Karl Frizlen to redesign the previously approved plan and increase the number of residences from three to nine.  Croce, a chiropractor, plans to move his office to the first floor of the building.

 

cloisterolddesign.pngThe previous proposal for the site called for a 20,000 sq.ft. medical office building fronting Delaware Avenue and three, three-story townhouses along Virginia Street (above).  The contemporary design faced tough sailing with the Preservation Board when two neighbors objected to the plan calling the design insensitive to the historic Allentown neighborhood.  The Board's vote on the project was 4-4 meaning it didn't take action on the project and thus authorized it.

Revised plans (below) were approved by the Preservation Board on June 28 and will be reviewed by the Planning Board next Tuesday.

CloisterRevised.JPGAccording to the cover letter submitted to the Preservation Board by attorney Robert E. Knoer, Croce "has agreed to consider a more traditional look in closer keeping with the preservation district standards."  He went on to write, "We believe that this will result in an even better project for this prominent site on Delaware Avenue."

CloisterElevations.JPGThe building will feature a corner glass atrium with office space in the three levels fronting Delaware Avenue and the nine apartments in the portion along Virgina Street.  The exterior will be clad in red brick, adobe-colored terra cotta manufactured by Boston Valley Terra Cotta.  Cultured stone sills and cornice are planned.  A fourth level recessed along Virginia Street will have hardiplank siding and a metal hipped roof.  Windows will have a "light gray tint" and will be anodized aluminum framed.

 

CloisterSiteRevised.bmpOn the ground level along Virgina Street, there will be three private garages, two residential lobbies and one, one-bedroom apartment. 

Three private garages would be accessed along Virgina Street along with two residential lobbies and one studio apartment.  Four, one-bedroom units will occupy the second floor.  The four apartments on the third floor will be two-bedroom units on two levels.  The master bedroom on the mezzanine level will be accessed via a circular staircase.  Each of the upper level apartments will have a terrace facing the interior of the site.  Nineteen non-garage parking spaces, 11 of them covered, are provided on site. 

The property previously contained a residence where Mark Twain lived from 1870 to 1871. It was destroyed by fire in 1963, but the carriage house remained. The Cloister, one of Buffalo's fabled restaurants, was opened by James D. DiLapo, Jr. in 1964 and closed in 1989. Business First and the Buffalo Law Journal occupied the building until 2001 when the publisher relocated to the Lafayette Court building on Main Street. The building was vacant until demolished earlier this year

A brick carriage house on the Holloway Alley side of the property remains (below).  Its future use is not clear from the submitted documents.

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Much more urban. I like it.

Score: 22 ( 30 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Better siting and form, but I'm not wowed by the new styling. I'm not a huge fan of that alternating look where each bay of windows gets a different shade of brick or cladding. I think it's better (and more traditional) to articulate in horizontal bands. The glass corner tower seems unconnected with the rest of the design. It's an acceptable concept, but it's just kind of bland overall.

Score: -20 ( 40 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

OH NOES IT LOOKS LIKE AMHERST LOOK AT ALL THAT PARKING BUILD IT ON MAPLE ROAD WHERE IT BELONGS!!!!!1!!

Seriously, not too bad. They probably could have done a better job with the corner entry, but with no FBC regulations in place yet, it's going to be a tough sell.

Score: 0 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Any idea when construction may start?

Score: 10 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Sub text - the other design was too expensive. Hope they fix that corner. It is petty bad.

Score: -8 ( 38 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I like the new design. It fills out the corner a little better. Odd that it keeps the trees next to the building instead of between the street and sidewalk. Not sure why they seem to want it that way. But overall nice do-over.

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Don't that block look like it done got built up over time like a genuine urbane city?

Score: -14 ( 26 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

It's better than what was originally proposed but why can't the designers just replicate the architecture from the row houses across the street and build something with similar character?

Score: -1 ( 25 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Because it's too expensive and we don't have the craftsmen anymore. Cutting stone into swags and garlands isn't easy or cheap. Try to find a bricklayer who can do something more than just horizontal bricks.

I like this much better than the other monstrosity.

My question though: Why doesn't Croce just go full Delaware and build a big mansion? He could still have his office on the ground floor, and there would be plenty of space for his family on the upper levels. I say bring the millionaires back to Millionaire Row.

replied to atypical
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Croce is building a house in Orchard Park currently

replied to Rand503
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oops thinking of Mark sorry.

replied to Rand503
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> Cutting stone into swags and garlands isn't easy or cheap.

That's what terra cotta is for. Most of the "swags and garlands" you see in Buffalo aren't hand cut.

replied to Rand503
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yes, we have the craftsmen. lots of them work(ed) on shea's theater and the lafayette hotel and the darwin martin house. lots will be working on the richardson.

by the way, you don't get to use those preservation tax credits unless your restoration work meets secretary of the interior standards. preservation = jobs.

replied to Rand503
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The proportions are so much better on this version than on the original one with the tiny square windows.

I can't say I care for the row of dinky shrubs between the sidewalk and the building. I suppose it is for privacy of the office workers, but there are better ways to deal with this. Traditionally, ground-floor residential or office space is often raised several feet above grade, so that the windows are above eye level. I was going to say you could keep the lobby at grade-level to make wheelchair access easier, with a ramp inside to go up to the office level, but from the rendering it looks like there is already a couple of steps to get into the corner entry anyway.

But definitely an improvement in just about every way from the original design, IMO.

Score: -1 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Um, wow. WOW. This is a big step up. Thank you, Scott Croce & Karl.

Others have suggested some tweaks, but the trees comment especially resonates: more trees, please!

P.S. Karl: delighted to see your geothermal well drilling underway on Connecticut Street.

Score: 1 ( 17 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Looks like an extended stay motel.

Score: -7 ( 27 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Not perfect but 1000% better looking then first renderings.

Score: 7 ( 17 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I like it.

Need to work on the glass corner. Road trip to Toronto or Boston?


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I agree with most of the feedback here: a vast improvement (in terms of urban form), the need for more trees, the need to re-examine the corner glass....

Please, please no dyvit, Karl. The incorporation of Boston Terra Cotta is wonderful--it would be fabulous to see the entire city of Buffalo adorned with that company's work (as a showcase).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the carriage house--I sense it will not be usable/viewable in this design.

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I'm guessing EIFS will not be allowed in a preservation district.

I do wish the garages could be accessed from the parking lot rather than having three curb cuts on Virginia.

replied to Travelrrr
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Another block like structure from Frizlen.Just take all your rotten ideas to Amherst!

Score: -9 ( 23 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

This is a much better building for this location. Though I do wish that we could have gotten a great contemporary building with great urban form. TRM showed with both concepts that they just didn't get it. In the end I'd rather have a good urban building than interesting contemporary architecture. But why is it the architects so infrequently can figure out how to achieve both?

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Agree!..well said. Unfortunately the assumption that people get when a proposal like the TRM design is turned down is that a contemporary design is not desirable and we have to revert back to historic forms with cornices and the like. But rather we just need better architects capable of something more modern that maintains the scale and texture of the neighborhood while creating exciting contemporary work...and if not exciting, then just good contemporary design combined with good urban design. It is possible! Instead we get glass curtain wall topped with a cornice???

replied to townline
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Can you guys link to some examples of great/exciting contemporary architecture that demonstrates good urban design, proper human-scaled proportions, etc.?

replied to nyc
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Good question, i'd also be interested to see some examples.

replied to JSmith
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C'mon, there are plenty of examples. Do some research. Travel! Honestly, I've decided that Karl Fizlin is making architecture for people who do not like architecture. This is architecture for people who like foggy memories of old American cities. Its idiotic.

Here are five links to images of worthwhile contemporary architecture. Enjoy.

Am Kupfergraben 10 by David Chipperfield Architects

Moriyama House by SANAA

Tongxian Gatehouse by Office Da

Pretty much anything by Caruso St. John

Anything by Peter Zumthor

Architecture doesn't need to always be about longing for the past, people! Grow up, eat your broccoli, quit the nostalgia!

replied to JSmith
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Dead, davvid. Why anyone would like this design is beyond me, so it looks old. Great! The old design is much better. Everyone lost on this one.

replied to davvid
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I am interested in what the people saying "can't we have great contemporary building with great urban form" are thinking of, not what *I* think of as good contemporary architecture.

Thank you for the links. In my opinion, they all look pretty awful to me. None of them meet my stated criteria of demonstrating "good urban design, proper human-scaled proportions, etc."

hamp's Nike store looks pretty nice to me, though I am still unconvinced it qualifies as "modern" or "contemporary" architecture.

replied to davvid
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Here is one example.

http://ilovepdxhomes.wordpress.com/tag/clinton-condominiums/

There are many buildings that achieve a contemporary design and contextualism.

In Buffalo I would say the new M&T building - 285 delaware ave is a decent new build - good urban qualities and contemporary design.

replied to JSmith
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" the new M&T building - 285 delaware ave is a decent new build - good urban qualities and contemporary design."


Yes it's a great building in an architectural and modern way, but as for the 'urban qualities' - don't forget it still has a dead and vacant first floor after all these years since it opened. The sealed-off empty window bays aren't doing much for the pedestrian except at christmastime when they stick lighted trees in them. The street-facing part of the first floor should be redone so it's actually usable.

replied to nyc
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Clearly your criteria is too limiting. Its preventing you from appreciating some great works. I don't really know what else to say. Study and travel. Read architectural criticism. Sorry if that sounds snotty.

replied to JSmith
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What....they could do a 3rd floor but not a 4th floor?

Well, its to the sidewalk...and its visually what the eye expects from the area

Its a contemporary version and I think that subtracts from the over-all architectural asthetic. It wouldnt have been that much more expensive to do a true Federal, Beaux Arts, Georgian exterior and really blend into the surrounding neighborhood.

Score: -8 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

no

replied to paulsobo
Score: 10 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Tough to tell what its really going to look like from the renderings but I think it's a big improvement over the other design. Glad to see it because I will have to look at it from my living room windows.

Score: 1 ( 7 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment


Check out the Nike store on Newberry Street in Boston. I was there a few weeks ago:

http://www.cbtarchitects.com/architecture/retail/

Score: 9 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

NICE! Thank you.

replied to hamp
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Real nice building, unfortunately the Buffalo market could not justify the construction cost of that project here.

replied to hamp
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I'm not sure that's true.

Anyway, there are plenty of ways to construct a building that fits into the urban fabric without being outrageously expensive.

replied to crescent1251
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Do you think that architecture is particularly more contemporary than the Frizlen design? It definitely apes a lot of traditional forms (and is all the better for it, IMO).

replied to hamp
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The Nike store is amazing.

replied to hamp
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It's not a lot more contemporary.

But some important parts (entrance) have a nice contemporary take
on traditional patterns. The materials and forms are bold and confident.
They defer to history but aren't slaves to it.

There are many other good examples. The architects should look at some case studies from
other cities. Nothing wrong with that.

Score: 3 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The overall design is lazy and simpleton. It is at best a way "just make it seems like it fits so the progressives don't have a nut and block it." I guess it achieved it's aim. I certainly welcome the investment, but as time will tell, we all lose with this design

Score: -2 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

"A brick carriage house on the Holloway Alley side of the property remains (below). Its future use is not clear from the submitted documents."

Shouldn't that first floor plan indicate something? I can't make out what the space in the north-west/upper right says, too blurry.

Score: 4 ( 4 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

"carriage house"

replied to LouisTully
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So, basically, we know nothing?

replied to WCPerspective
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love the nike store, hamp. thanks for posting it.

i still don't understand how frizlen keeps getting these high-visibility commissions when we have better designers in town. i'd love to see what catherine faust (toro, empire grill) could have done with this site.

the glass tower at the corner is particularly weak. the corner entrance is badly unarticulated, as though it is a service door on an alley where you take the trash out.

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The interior design of that glass tower will say a lot about the building. It could be interesting, or not.

replied to grad94
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The previous concepts were creative examples of modern architecture and more in tune with the majestic historic structures on this stretch of Delaware.

The most disturbing aspect of the entire project is the disregard of the Twain Carriage House. As a resident of the neighborhood my vote is to transfer the site and house to a non-profit and locate the long-desired Twain Museum to the Carriage House. We've given many (and well deserved) tax breaks to various developers so perhaps they could create a joint venture to help fund the project.

The southeast corner of this intersection seems a better site for a new, modern building. Anything would be better than the garage-like structure currently there.

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What a disgrace. To think that this cheap looking proposal is slated to be built across the street from the Midway RowHomes.
The only difference between this building on Delaware and the Community Services Building to its side is one has Turquoise panels between the windows, the other brick. Obviously the architect gets his jobs by sacrificing quality of design to get a few more square feet at the same price point. Sure hope the planning board demands a better proposal for Buffalo's premier Avenue.

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Blaahhhh.

What has been designed belongs in Disney World. Skimping on the design shows. This corner deserves something simple and reserved, as to not compete with the sorrounding historic architecture.

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Folks, I do believe from the type of drawings presented that the design is preliminary.

My guess is that it will be fine tuned, and will get better (especially the corner piece).

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I think the original, more modernist design would have been a nicer fit. Why does everything have to be faux historic? A truly vibrant urban neighborhood is one that has a variety of architectural styles. Oh well, either way it will be a major aesthetic improvement over the empty parking lot and boarded up Cloister Restaurant that once marred the site.

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what an utter piece of crap! Just want we need, more bad looking architecture... especially on such a cool block of Delaware. as usual, nice plan, poorly excuted.

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So, are they going to start work on this anytime soon? Or should we just get used to the the empty lot?

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Message to Scott Croce:

Scott, Please show the neighborhood a little respect and hire someone to mow the 3' high weeds along Virginia Street.

Thanks.

Score: 2 ( 2 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Croce's plans were approved back in August, apparently. No clue as to why construction hasn't started. At this point one has to speculate as to whether or not he has the financing in place. I certainly hope so. Its a real shame, the empty lot creates a void in an otherwise nice area.

Build the darn thing now, Scott.

replied to charger
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