Sabres and Ellicott Development Face Off for Webster Block

I'm a little surprised by WCP's negative spin.

Why would City Hall be especially surprised or disappointed at that set of 3 proposals? The first two of them were widely expected. Only one can be built. Without knowing more about the 3rd, not much can be said about that.

My quick knee jerk reaction is that the Sabres thing sounds best. That would benefit most by Webster's close proximity to the arena and otherwise might not happen or be as successful. Maybe Paladino would end up building his proposal somewhere else downtown or waterfront-ish.

So that would mean one nice project for sure by Pegula/Sabres, and a decent chance of Paladino's too before very long. How is this in any way bad news?

I like the sound of the Paladino proposal. That sounds like it would be roughly 15 storys.

The Paladino proposal sounds like the only one that fits in with the goals of Canalside.

The Sabres proposal sounds like blank walls plus one restaurant. Hardly a good location for that.

The 3rd proposal is lacking any info at all...

I agree with those that like the Sabres Option. Putting this kind of a development close to the arena build off of all the assets that the Sabres and community have invested in that area. You could imagine using both the new proposal and FN Center together. Plus if a Zamboni breaks, they already have a backup or the tools to fix it.

Paladino's proposal is fine but can go anywhere. I don't think you would want to put the hockey rinks anywhere. How about they join forces and combine their proposals. Nothing says you can't put a hotel above the hockey rinks and the garage below...

Then we could remove some of those surface lots over in the cobblestone district!! ;)

Ditto to others saying a hybrid would be ideal. [However, my fear with Paladino involved with anything is that the project would languish given his record for Creamery, Court St., Graystone.]

A rink(s)alone, even with a little commercial space, is not high enough use for the parcel. I was hoping for something sexier and unique for the 'prime' parcel.

Why not wait until something is actually built at Canalside. The sabres can built a rink in numerous locations in or around downtown. I agree that there should be more competition to develop this land.

Sounds like Canisius finally has a plan for its hockey program. There's nowhere to build it near campus, and they were looking to partner with the Sabres from the start. I'm sure their students and alums would have no problem hopping on the train to see them play downtown. Awesome news.

How much demand does Buffalo still have for Hotels and Office space? Serious question, I don't know the stats, and considering a hotel is being put in next door, Lafayette, Statler etc. How bad do we need this?

I'm a huge Sabres fan so my heart backs the Sabres but I'm trying to look at this objectively. The Sabres would add a pretty cool destination (pun intended). Knowing Pegula would spend whatever money, I think this rink will be top notch, take a look around at newer rinks, they aren't all big boxes. They easily could follow all the Historic and Urban design guidelines. It would offer shelter from the heat in summer and the snow in winter, just another cool place to walk around in. They could rent the rink and have hockey going on 24/7. Personally I enjoy watching hockey so even a beer league would be added scenery.

Sports Restaurant is a great destination too, all the bad business aside, I enjoyed Jim Kellys Bar back in the day and wish we had something like Wayne Gretzkys in Toronto. I know all the foodies will throw risotto at their monitor but I like those type of places and so do tourists.

can someone with hospitality info fill me in on how our Hotel rates are and if we really have a demand? Is this a chicken egg situation with demand for hotels and attractions to bring in the people?

I think it would be a disappointment to city hall considering the fact that they had expected many proposals and interest from far and wide. Instead they got three proposals and it appears like out of town developer money isnt interested in a "prime" parcel. Certainly its nice to see development proposals from those with interest in and historically embedded within the community but i'm concerned that Buffalo remains off the map to out of town money and developers. Perhaps its the fact that development nationwide has slowed to a snails pace and banks arent lending still but I guess the question is considering the WNY market, just how "prime" is one of the most prime downtown parcels? What drove the out of town interests away? Perceptions and rumors about Buffalo? The market itself looking at income, population? Tax burden? Vacancy rates? Im thinking the NYS, County and local tax rates need to be reduced to align themselves with neighboring or nearby states including Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. I dont know what that number is but if NYS is more expensive its time to keep up with the jones's here and be similar to your neighbors.

Can the Sabres and Ellicott hybridize their plan into one bigger mixed use plan with all those elements?

I hate the thought that something is better than nothing but I'm a little ambivalent here. A hockey rink produces constant activity. I just hope they're smart about parking solutions, ie. underground or attractive garage design that doesn't take up considerable space. I'm curious to see design ideas that wouldn't completely block out the arena atrium.

Sabres plan is not something for everyone/year round as suggested by the city. So, I hope we don't end up with that.

Paladino plan sounds good, but how many years will we see an empty lot? (still waiting for a tower on Court St. that has been talked about by him since the early 2000's).....

Here is why i like Carl's plan:

Downtown Buffalo needs more buildings (especially newbuild) with larger floor plates. How is Cuomo & Co. expected to lour in out of town companies with our existing product? Can anyone think of a building with plates bigger than 30K SF, near shopping,eating, entertainment that isn't in Larkin???

Large companies don't want to be in the elevator all day but want to walk on one continuous floors to access other employees (see HSBC and why it wants out of the tower)

Once again the city is blind to the fact that the parcel and area down there isnt that exciting...The fact that we cant get out of town developers interested is really sad.....But the city needs to get their nose out of this anyway

I'm curious: why would any of these proposals have to "follow the Canal Side design plan", when the Donovan did not?

If Paladino say's 'retail & restaurants' for this, I'd be alittle nervous. He's known for putting 'public assistance, parol offices, drug addiction, etc.' in his first floor spaces.....If he is able to get 'retail & restaurants' then why not do the same for his MAIN STREET buildings? We could have a much more pleasent downtown vibe right now if he had put in 'retail & restaurants' in his buildings between Mohawk & Court St. instead of the lowest of lowest which is why we need officer patrols daily parked at Lafayette Square. I don't trust this man.

I support Paladino's proposal. It suits the goals of Canalside much better. If Pegula needs to build a rink (which I think is a great idea), he should look no further then the massive parking lot between Perry and South Park, west of the Arena.

Leave Delaware North and its craptacular crap alone. We need their corner cutting and price gouging like we need more uppity yups on this site.

Paladino has been sitting on his Court Street site for years, with nothing to show for it except a law suit.

Pegula and the Sabres, along wih Delaware North will get their building done. And it will be a quality project. See Pegula's ice rink at Penn State.

I don't trust Paladino, don't think he does good work, and his character leaves a lot to be desired.

A mixed use, ice rink/restaurant/retail building can be designed to work with Canalside. It doesn't need to have blank walls.

If anyone can pull this off, Pegula can.

I'm confused why people think another hockey rink (next door to a hockey rink) is going to bring constant activity. How many people hang out by the FN Center when there's no game going on. Zero. How many outward-facing restaurants and shops are included in the FN Center today. Zero. How much street activity is there around the FN Center when there's no game... zero. The new practice rinks would include only 1 restaurant for a 2 acre 4-corner site. I don't think that would create round-the-clock activity the way some seem to think it would.

I haven't seen details for any of the plan, so yes, I'm making some assumptions here. But 1 restaurant on an entire block paints a pretty boring image for canalside.

Combine them. What a cool and unique venue it would be.

You just can't go wrong when two very savvy billionaires, both of whom own hockey teams, collaborate on a project. The proposed complex, when combined with the adjacent FN arena, will probably constitute one of the largest ice based venues in the world. It represents a critical mass with the potential to attract major national and international hockey and skating events.

Some comments are from people who aren't around the local rinks. Have you been by the Pepsi Center (or whatever its called now) or Holiday or Leisure rinks ? They are jammed packed from early morning hours until 1am. And they are not just open during the winter, these rinks are open year round.

As long as they dress up the exterior nice and have retail or restaurants on the 1st floor, I think a couple rinks on the upper floors would be a fantastic idea. I'm picturing a sports themed restaurant and a hockey pro shop or even a small outdoor shop combination...sharpen your skates, or get some bait.

It brings people downtown throughout the entire day. From hockey moms taking pee wees after school, to college games and practices and beer league games late night, there would be constant activity downtown throughout the evening hours, something office space does not bring.

Families stepping out from practice walking aorund at canalside, beer leaguers stepping out at 10pm looking for a nightcap at the bars near cobblestone, local and visiting college kids attending games, you're bringing multiple types of people downtown for extended periods.

We've got plenty of buildings that can be renovated for office space, lofts or hotel rooms. If they do it up nice and it doesn't look like a barn, I say the hockey rinks are the right idea.

Could one of the rinks be developed to also serve as a concert hall ? Bigger then Shea's but smaller then Fnc . A lot of concerts pass Buffalo by because we don't have that size arena.

Everything said in the comments of this article is pure specualtion.

We have a mere sentence about each proposal with which to judge. I say that we reserve judgement until the 3 plans are unveiled.

With that said, it begs the obvious question, which should have been answered in the original article: When will the plans be presented to the public?

The Sabres idea has many reasons why it makes sense. However, I don't think it fits.

We need for mixed-use development like Paladino's idea downtown. I honestly believe that a big rink would be ugly and would be one giant behemoth with not enough activity on the street level that we just don't need anymore of. Let Terry build it somewhere else close.

Here's an idea that you'll all hate - how about knocking down some grain elevators and putting it somewhere near Ganson or Ohio Street? That land is all wasted with those atrocities on them. I consider myself a history lover and I believe in preservation but we don't need so many deplorable grain elevators taking up prime waterfront. Let's keep 2 or 3 and ditch the rest.

Build Carl's proposal and call it a day.

I like the Sabres proposal. Buffalo is already doing a good job of drawing residential projects downtown, there are several hotel projects in the works, and plenty of open office space and buildings to make office space. Buffalo needs to draw people downtown that do not live there. The Sabres proposal will draw fans and athletes from college hockey to downtown. Youth hockey tournaments draw people from the suburbs and out of town that spend lots of $ on food hotels and entertainment while they are in town. I have been to youth hockey tournaments at Northtowns, Hyde park in Niagara Falls and Niagara U and few of these families head to Buffalo to spend $. This proposal would work to help better Buffalo by exposing new people to the city the other proposals are great but are working elsewhere in the city This seems to be the right location, place and development group.

Come on down to the Delaware North Restaurant!! Get your hotdogs from a rolling machine and nachos with cheese ooze! Oh, and we serve Labbatt too!! Can't wait til this place.....opens ****BARF***

I say demolish the skyway access ramp and build at the periphery of Canalside first...the area closest to downtown, closest to South Buffalo (the Casino and south or east of the Casino).

Why?

As Canalside develops and becomes a destination, increasingly better opportunities will come up to use the prime real estate closest to that destination. If its already built then game over. It will never get proposed.

Paladino atleast offers the most flexibility and thats smart.

But I say build it further away from Canalside...and reserve the area closest to the canal for development last.

Whatever they end up putting in, I hope they have the sense to build an underground parking lot to go with it.

I think the Sabres proposal would provide some seasonal balance to the intrinsic warm-weather attractions of Canalside. Piggyback off of the hockey activity and identity already present and keep people down there all year (especially on non-game days). It would tie together the two areas, maybe Liberty-Hound does better in the winter months and Cobblestone district picks up a bit in the summer and you get some more cohesion to the whole area.

I am against the rink. All it will lead to is people driving in from the suburbs, going to the rink, and driving home. Carl's proposal makes much more sense long term. Like someone above said, we need more people living (or staying in hotels) downtown. This is more important than an ice rink.

I think the rink would be a good fit. I could drop off the kids, do some shopping and grab lunch (all in the area)while they are practicing. Ice time is in high demand in WNY. This would bring people there 7 days a week.

I disagree I believe it is the changes to downtown like a stronger theater and arts Thursday at the Sq. Farmers Market more jobs etc. which have made it a place people want to live and it builds from there. I'm not saying don't do residential projects yes we need them but we also need to draw more people to Buffalo. I am from the suburbs years ago I only came downtown for Sports and concerts, now those reasons plus to eat, the Erie basin marina the Naval park, Larkin Sq. events and place that were not there before and I would love to now move downtown someday after my children are out of school. Because of the city fabric not because someone converted an old building into an apartment. Great build residential but also continue to draw new people make the city the center of the region not just a area within the region.

A rink complex could compliment the outdoor rinks on the proposed canals at the Aud site and the FN Arena next door. It would establish some hockey "synergy" and it creates all-season activity for a location that will sorely need it. It begins to brand the waterfront as a prominent destination for ice hockey for both locals as well as a national audience especially if the rink complex has a public-ness that works and creates a relationship between the interior and exterior (memo to pegula - hire good, scratch that, hire GREAT architects).

However, it needs to move far beyond that singular use and become a real mixed use project with a hotel and residences above. It will need to continuously engage the street on all side - sports bar, restuarant, Sabres or NHL store, other shops, public atrium, whatever. It needs the density that combining these proposals will bring. A couple rinks with a restaurant will not cut it and will not be the kick in the pants necessary for Canalside to actually lift off. And i wouldn't spread these proposals thin and assume you can just plant Paladino's proposal next door. The waterfront needs a major anchor, an activity center that will spur more activity... pull the proposals together, and that could do it...it's the real Hockeytown.

This ice rink idea is no different from the other silver bullet ideas that have failed. Think the Metro Rail, the convention center or the Main Place mall. I feel like people are forgetting about how important mixed-use development is because they have a soft-spot for the Sabres.

Build the damned rink somewhere else.

Put Pegulas Rink in the sea of parking lots on Perry street, either on the south side towards the water, or aquire some of the land next to the HSBC atrium in the Buffalo News lot. Canalside is happening, but Cobblestone Dist needs an anchor. Honestly, if you were visiting Buffalo you would want to walk out of your hotel to where the action is, not have to take a cab there. That is why Carl's mixed use with hotel makes the most sense. Plus, people who travel there for hockey will drive into the underground ramp, go through ramp elevator to the rink, and not even step a foot outside

i say sell this f$%^&*g lot to the highest bidder and let the new owner decide what he wants to put on it the end !! then maybe somthing would happen there.

The BR article says the Sabres plan is rinks + sports bar/restaurant. The link to the Fink Business First article says rinks + HOTEL.

The Fink article was modified 8 hours after the BR article was posted, that could account for the discrepancy.

Rinks + HOTEL seems like a really good choice there. Office space can really go anywhere (like Paladino's Court Street lot).

Pegula for the win.

I said wait for more details. Here are a few more details:

"Sources said the Sabres are proposing to construct a pair of hockey rinks, one with seating for a couple hundred of spectators and the other with perhaps as much seating for 1,500 people. The rinks would be used by local groups, hockey organization and skating groups. The NHL team may occasionally use one of the rinks if First Niagara Center is booked with a concert, lacrosse game or other special event.

The project would also include a full-service, nationally-branded hotel, a 1,000 car parking facility and some streetscape retail along Main and Perry streets."

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2012/06/20/mayor-pleased-with-webster-development.html

Pegula's proposal now includes a hotel and retail on Main and Perry. Also, 1,000 parking spaces. This would completely solve the parking for Canalside issue. Also, it will greatly help parking for Sabres games.

Also, I trust Pegula to get this done quickly far more than I trust Paladino.

Additionally, if we are looking to attract people to Canalside, additional attractions will certainly help. The hockey rinks will bring people down there in off hours far more than additional office space (which we can put anywhere downtown (court street??))

In Pegula we trust. Now let’s see the renderings.

While I'd prefer this land go towards something else, and the practice facility be put somewhere east of the arena, it could be good in pushing development outside the immediate area. Looking at an overhead, taking this and the Donovan out of the equation leaves the Aud block and the space the Sabres just paid to sod that are in play. Maybe that would help force development of the DL&W?

My concern with this is really about the first floor. It should add to the street activity, not just used up by an indoor rink. If the sabres can design it so that the exterior first floor is mostly outward-facing retail then it would be great with rinks and hotel inside.

Mayor pleased with Webster development bids

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2012/06/20/mayor-pleased-with-webster-development.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-06-20

Someone else asked ,'why can't they BOTH build on canalside'? ....why not? Or better yet, why can't Paladino build this mixed-use building on his empty Court Street lot? A 24/7 building is needed on that block!

Expand the Greenspace for the time to rid the parking lot eyesore to the Webster Block so in the interim it can be used for pre game parties and/or for recreation. There is no reason to rush and you cannot go wrong with extending the park environment. There is plenty of parking behind the Atrium and up and down Perry and into Exchange areas.

Focus on filling in the Aud hole first and utilization of some of the vacant store fronts on lower Main and maybe the Tower.

Build the rinks/hotel in Cobblestone in one of the lots there. You already have a bar district there and streets that run through nothing but a parking lot. Besides I thought we could skate on the replica canals - be good for i.e. the pond hockey tourney.

Building more class A office space is foolish until the Tower fate is known.

Besides, I thought the area was not ready for more lofts, i.e. the creamery building.....

So Donovan gets done, Webster block is built out, the Aud block has whatever on it, and development starts pushing east.

After reading Mike N's comment I was thinking about losing this parking lot, because it is always packed for any FNC event. So capacity is pushed elsewhere. What is the affect on exfil from the area? Particularly once those empty blocks to the east begin getting developed (fingers crossed) and parking becomes more congested(perhaps?). It's already tough to get out of Dodge after games or events (which should be a good thing for the businesses there/that will be there).

Will parking lots/garages further away be more utilized? Is the NFTA prepared to handle more people taking the train to the game?

LouisTully... You don't spend $100 million (envelope calculation of entire project) creating a beautiful oasis to border it with a 300 parking spot eyesore. Those 300 spots will just have to be absorbed elsewhere and other spaces used more efficiently. I know there is plenty of space during office hours.

You also don't want to cut off the harbor access to the natural beauty of the area i.e. Wintergarden, Rainbow Mall Niagara Falls with an expansive high rise. Buffalo is generally a low rise city, and the canal days would certainly have been. Replacing the pavement with grass does two things.

1) Cleans up the border to the park while maintaining shovel readiness in the event that development space is one day needed. I must add the lots behind the Marine Drive Apartments need a good refurb as well

2) Allows you to prioritize other parcels that should be developed first(AUD)and keeps development for the sake of development and costly blunders down. Visit Toronto's waterfront, look at St. James Park in London.... a shallow pool with wildlife in the heart of downtown would be pretty cool especially since god only knows what is in the Buffalo River.

I'd even take a field to go kick a soccer ball around or throw a frisbee without having to worry about tripping over someone playing Twister or sunning themselves in an Miami color scheme inspired adirondack chair over a theme bar or empty office space.

As residential units are added up Main Street, maybe in the Tower, the Creamery building, these green areas will be used and be attractive to residents and employees who continue to work downtown. It adds to the quality of life that downtown is able to offer to rival with suburban offerings.

In fact, they could never put another building there. If people are hungry, head up Main street or Washington or Pearl. If people want a beer go to the Cobblestone district or Chippewa. The idea is to lure and disperse, not create a waterfront Casino. Having everything on site does allow us to support all the new initiatives currently underway.

Wow, all my spouting stands corrected. Mike Gilbert says it won't be a practice facility for the team. Interesting considering most teams have a dedicated practice facility. I'm curious since Pegula is creating "hockey heaven"

They both sound like good prospects for the Webster block without seeing any sort of renderings, etc...a lot of the comments here are based on speculation of what these projects would actually look like.

Here's the kicker though: Paladino's project includes 110K sq. ft. of Class A office space...right near a Class A tower that's losing its tenants one by one. If he follows up with a specific anchoring tenant and maybe the names of some potential retailers his plan would be more sound. That's why mixed used reuse plans like the Donovan, Avant & Hotel Lafayette projects have been working out: there are already some names attached when the projects get started.

That being said, I'm pleased with both proposals for the time being and can't wait to see more details...including about the third 'conceptual' proposal.

Figure a way to merge the Sabres and Ellicott proposals together and get the architect group in to make all that work and design it! Best of all worlds and evereyone happy and downtown ends up in a more substantial project! Crazy wishful thinking of course but could be interesting for sure. Maybe the hockey rinks are elevated on a 3rd or 4th floor with large sidewall in glass windows with panoramic views of the harbor area. Seating on three other sides of rinks all oriented towards rinks and that view! That would be interesting. The hotel, office, commecial, parking all workied ito the structure above, below, to the sides, whatever makes it a truly mixed use destination with walk up commercial at ground level.

Both are great proposals...laughable to mention the third "conceptual" idea..lol..doesn't even seem likes its reach the daydreaming stage yet.

Neither of these HAVE to go on this particular block, both would do well in the immediate area. Its comes down to trust.

We all love Pegula..hes got a ton of money..really nice guy. An acquisition like this makes TONS OF BUSINESS SENSE as far as his investment. He would have this going next month..this wouldn't be a buy and hold for him, nor would it be devoted to parking. He's not in the parking business.

Think for a 2nd that good old "buy and hold Paladino" couldn't have built his building anywhere else in the immediate area. (Creamery included) Or why he hasn't done so already? Casino development and the emptying of the HSBC tower? I am sure there are a thousand other places in that immediate area he could have already built..but chose not too? He just wants this lot cause you can charge $30 a car for parking.

Please pay attention NFTA...refurbish the DL&W terminal...couldn't think of a better time to dust off your South Park metro extension.

At risk of owning yet another negative comment post, scrapping all of the proposals and returning the parking lot pavement to green space for recreation is in my opinion the best development option currently.

Putting an empty building on a piece of land is not development. Waiting 10-15 yrs for someone to actually build the building is wasteful.

Putting a building with all amenities, food, parking, rink is the same as a casino. A casino concept by a different name.

1) Events can be held on this parcel but at the sametime not encroach on other's ability to actually use and enjoy the waterfront especially with the Skyway still being there.

You can have more room for multiple events and even more people.

- you could have a permanent Hot Air balloon there all summer providing elevated views of the city as is being done this weekend for Citybration (great chance to view the Creamery), or playoff parties with a big screen or Friday night movies etc. Remember the "sole purpose of the Sabres existence is to win the Stanley Cup"; should provide for a lot of playoff games..... (a little sarcasm to secure my negative rating)

- provide ample space for additional vendors to move them off the boardwalk and views of the water. Reduce wear and tear of large trucks constantly driving up and onto the paved areas of the harbor

- in winter create sledding hills or host a winterfest

2) Financially, the city should sit and hold this property or risk losing substantial value of the prime parcel should Canalside take off. Selling now seems to me to be restricting the amount the city could receive in the future by holding off for a few years which then can be put into further development.

We need to stop just doing things to say we've done something which in reality that something is nothing but a waste of valuable scarce resources. A lot of time and effort has been spent undoing poor planning already, i.e. exploding canal rocks.... lets take the time to do it right and use the energy of the population to build something, not undo something. This is city land, not private land. Lets do what's best for the people not 1 or 2 already wealthy individuals.

"Three of the areas' biggest developers took a pass." Commentary enough for me to finally accept that Buffalo is not Boston or NYC. The Webster Block was marketed nationally and only garnered three responses? Let's all keep that in the back of our minds as new development opportunities are proposed in the region.

i would stay clear of paladino with his track record. Pegula is not really a developer tho either. I'm inclined to say go with Pegula since his idea might be the lesser of the two evils but without more deails on what this building would look like and what else it would have than rinks and a restaurant i'm not on board. If this is simply just a pepsi center then that will be a waste of the spot. Even if people were down there all the time using the ice, thats all that they will do or parents from the northtowns would just ship their kids down on the subway to avoid driving them. Maybe with pegula's money he can get a big name developer to come in with some clout that will get some national chains. Ideally the site would be a combination of pegula's idea of rinks and then get a different developer to get a hotel, retail and some housing in there. Something that might be an interesting fit would be the comedy hall of fame. Would be a nice addition to the area, give people more things to do before or after a sabres game or other events at fnc.

Exactly. I was walking through the Concert area watching things get set up.

Pizza vendors, beer vendors, barbeque vendors just to name a few. They set up the trucks and when the event is over pack it up. Its not limited to the concert series. The Tower has a cafeteria, a Starbucks, a Subway, Just Pizza, Timmies; people do not leave the building. Just as people do not have to leave Tower for lunch, they don't have to after the concert series go find something to eat down Perry, up Pearl, etc.
They just walk over to the Webster block (which is empty on the few weekends I've been down there) and get in their cars and move on. But if you get rid of that lot it would force people to park up in Pearl, Exchange, take the rail up Main St, Cobblestone and have to walk past established restaurants. This includes Sabres games.

There is no need or incentive for people go off and vote with their feet for a restaurant here or there because we deliver it to them on a silver platter.

You need to focus on residential first; fortunately which is happening in a variety of areas. Use the area to draw people down to live or play but afterwords out and about and support the assets of what we already have; Lafayette, Statler, Chippewa etc etc. and hopefully remove some of the blight in terms of these paved lots.

Am I missing something here? The rendering of the Paladino proposal indicates something akin to a bomb shelter or a flak tower on the corner of Main and Perry. That seems to have escaped notice.

Go Sabres.

If Paladino 'can' do something this great on the waterfront, then why the hell can't he do the same for his other city developments??????? Instead of plopping a parol office, drug addiction and other social service offices along the first floors in his main street buidlings, why not retail and restaurants???? And by the way, how's that 'Court Street Tower' coming along, looks great so far (still an empty parking lot!).

A rink is by far the best idea. It would draw families into the city for hockey practice, games, tournaments, etc. This along with the other nearby proposals would draw many people into the city and allow them to spend some time their and spend their money. We already have empty office buildings, etc, an ice rink is a new idea and I believe a good one. While some may argue about the location, I think it is great because it will draw people right to canalside, and not two blocks away.

Location location location. I am not against the rink I am against the rink in that location- If you read the comments above, I am simply stating that it should go down the block in another location. It does not fit the Canalside theme.
And I am stating that it is not a harbinger of economic development hence the examples of Hyde Park, Sabreland.

I quote you above LouisTully.... "

I hate the thought that something is better than nothing but I'm a little ambivalent here.

OR

While I'd prefer this land go towards something else, and the practice facility be put somewhere east of the arena,

Seems to me you want just something there...Anything. All I am advocating is to give it time, let the sites underway develop, and get more proposals. Neither of the proposals makes Buffalo unique or anymore attractive to any other Rust Belt City or any city in general. AS lot of time and effort has been put into this project already to get things done right, like a real commercial slip and not a knock off. Until we stop acting like the pimply faced kid looking for a prom date, we will not take home the prom queen.

With all due respect to Ellicott Development, I would have to say the rendering is uninspiring at best. Paladino has even put a caveat on the proposal. If the downtown office market does not meet (his) expectations he may eliminate the office component. That shoots a big hole in the proposal right there. What you have left , as an anchor, are 40+ apts and a small hotel. Also I wonder about his plan to split the block in two. Could he fulfill the award requirements by building out one of the blocks and then sitting on the other?

The Sabres proposal is nothing more than more deadspace for prime canalside real estate.

If the Sabres want to expand into smaller rinks then let them do it to the east closer to ECC downtown campus.

I say dont build anything on the most prime parts of canalside but only offer the periphery. As Canalside gets built up it will get more expensive and better ideas will come forward....but if that land is already built on then the mediocre and desperate already be built on it.

lets walk before we can run

Jeff Nixon of the Bills likes Fandemoneum - a restaurant at the foot of the One Canalside / Donovan Building..

watch the video and see for yourself, then donate your memorabilia (on loan)

Great idea........getting the fans involved in donating memorabilia, rotating exhibits, using a dormant tavern and reassembling it, utilizing the old Donovan building, connecting it to the downtown corridor, the tailgate experience....... What's not to like!

Jeff Nixon - Buffalo Bills Alum

Enjoy the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXlINk3mAM

ok, I cam home in 2009, have now moved into the lafayette, so my investment is personal and business - my proposal Fandemoneum Restuarant / Museum - - presented to Benderson with positive response - here is my video - please enjoy and share it.

It's a local, home-grown, genuine joint with a corner tavern, tailgate party, good food, event space capability and it pays for itself (even makes money) and it's all about YOU, THE FAN!

JOIN IN AND PROMOTE IF YOU CARE TO..
THANKS

Yes, Newell,

I'm building the package with the answers you requested..

by the way: a quote from Jeff Nixon - Jeff is asking the Bills Alum to hear my presentation.

I think this operation will have one of Bufflo's best managers, TBD, but there is always good talent that is not delighted in any current role.

The momentum from Canalside cannot be denied.

This can align with and cross-promote Webster Block / Sabres idea.

Daily estimated revenue: avg. $6k with as much as $20k on a great / special event occasion, I am putting $200k of my own money and will seek individual / corp. sponsor for an average of $50k ea, with potentially one primary exclusive corp. sponsor at $200k to $500k with potential naming rights (like Labatts, Tim Hortons, Rich's, or Sabres, Bills)

The law firm and the hotel (Marriott) will easily pay the bills and the local and visiting fans with alignment / partnership to Bisons, Sabres, Canalside, Cobblestone well.. it could be HUGE.