Donovan Makeover Plans Get City OK
Comments
Leave a commentwow.. looks like a huge clusterf*** of bad ideas! Let's just keep adding random design elements until people forget about the obvious setback. The parking garage could have gone underground on the east side of the building and it's top floor could have served as the addition bringing the building to Washington St. How many more "exceptions" to the design guidelines will there be along the way?
You can't guideline your way to good design. For every canalside no-no there are examples where a good architect did it well. This building is lame because the developer and their architect are lame, not because they ignored a guideline. This is the product of passionless drones. They really should be embarrassed of this but they're probably not because they're making money.
There should be only one guideline: match great opportunities with inspired and competent people.
Confirmed: A team led by Terry Pegula are putting together an RFP for a $75 million multi-purpose use on the Webster Block which will have two Ice pads (one with 3K plus seats to be used by Canisus College + Sabres Practice facility), a hotel, retail, restaurants, and a parking garage.
Chances are they will be the favorite for this highly sought out downtown parcel because it will be a 100% private investment and require no government money.
Just remember, you heard it first from Trent Edwards and Terrell Owens :)
On a Donovan note, LOOKS GREAT!
Source?
Canisius not having its own rink makes them look bad. Even worse is a professional team practicing at that dump in Amherst.
revealing the source would prevent any future leaks from being available, and I want to provide the BRO readers with all the info i hear
lol, alright. I googled deep and couldn't find anything. I'll be curious to hear the details because the way I interpret it the Sabres would rather not be on campus and the school would prefer to have "their" rink specifically on campus. Either way the school should make out. If they can call it "their" rink then they can finally start showing recruits where they'll play; plus the campus is right on metro and easy to get down to the webster block.
suburbanhillbilly: northtown is probably the best facility in WNY... for amateur hockey. Not an NHL team. I wouldn't want my $$$ athletes playing on that rink, even the feature rink. There are plenty of problems with ice quality, eg. rocky mountains at the zamboni entrance. For me, a non-NHLer, the locker rooms are gross and a common target for theft.
Did you see 24/7? That makes "hockey heaven" look bush league: when your competition has their own dedicated facility and you're borrowing your practice facility from the Amherst Knights.
That's cause any smart company would'nt leak their RFP on the internet. It's straight from the horses mouth his is involved with the project. Again, names won't or will ever be revealed.
I've heard this before.
Keep in mind folks, there needs to be a home facility for the OJHL Buffalo Jr Sabres, Elite League Buffalo Junior Sabres, Canisius, and for Sabres Practice Ice. All organizations (minus Canisius) are related with the Sabres Alumni association. All organizations are interconnected.
To meet the demands of these organizations, there needs to be over 3K seating for college hockey, and for big tournaments for amateur sports.
If it's true, this would make Canal Side a winter mecca for hockey. One kid could have a tournament, while his brother is out skating with mom on the canal.
What exactly makes the Northtown Center a "dump"?
Dump may be a stretch if you're talking about the area for spectators. However the locker rooms are terrible. Some sinks don't work, some only have hot water, there's no doors on the bathroom stall, the showers are disgusting, it seems poorly ventilated, and the general upkeep is nonexistent. The benches are also set up weird. The one rink you have to step up to the bench, and in another you step down it should be level. It's kinda hard to describe unless you are on the ice. I'm not expecting a Sabres style locker room, but it would be nice to see some updates to the place.
Do you use Northtown? Not to drop kids off but skate on the ice, sit on the benches, shower in the locker rooms?
Not to mention each pad is skated on roughly 12 hours a day. Translation: butchered ice quality.
It's a dump. This is where an NHL team should practice:
http://www.jamestownarena.com/features.php
Pepsi really isn't a dump. It is a solid facility, but it does have faults. Ice quality being one and sub-standard locker facilities.
The Sabres only use it a handful of times during the year when the arena is occupied. A practice rink across the street will allow the FNC ice to be of better quality. It isn't so much about the practice ice, but the arena ice.
Providing a proper home for the Jr. Sabres and Canisius is a bonus and would make the new development far more viable. The rumored proposal for the Sabres should be focused more on the mixed use aspect of a bar like Real Sports (Toronto) and a quality attraction to pair with it. Personally, I think a Lucky Strike lanes would be terrific,.
I'm pretty excited about the prospects of the Sabres leading the charge on the Webster Block. Funny enough, I did a peice on the idea of that happening (twointhebox.com). 5to81, I would have to think that the Sabres' proposal would take that RFP running away based on what else could potentially be out there.
As for the design concerns with the Donovan; it is that big of a deal? For years we have been waiting for progress at Canalside and here we finally have some. This isn't a dastardly development plan, it fits the design requirements (except going to the street). Otherwise, it is a great step forward for a project that has had way too much trouble getting past the phase of posting pretty pictures.
It would be cool if they moved the Donovan building to the Webster block and moved the News building into the Donovan space and then eliminated the curbs
It isn't disneyland weaves, its not all supposed to look the same. The plan is an outline where private owners can fill in their unique projects that will come together to make an interesting and diverse area.
Great news if true about the webster block, the northtowne center is not a dump and I hope they could deal with the loss of business from the sabres ok.
I'm no planning expert, but I like this idea a lot. The building to me is attractive and beats what it looked like a month ago.
I have to say though, I think we would be better served if the hotel space was condo or apartment space. I don't know if they could get people to move in but I DO know that the best solution to solving all of downtown/canalside's problems is to get people to ACTUALLY LIVE down there.
The first thing people look for when selecting a business to frequent is convenience and a business down there is only convenient to go to if you live down there. Get people to move in, everything else will follow.
Looks great and the fact that people are working down there is nice to see - and the Canals project seems to be starting - Cranes and workers are there working on the ground and setting up the dozers, cranes etc....Now- Demolish Clintons Dish...What is the difference between clintons dish and the hot dog stand in front of Soho?- Absolutely nothing.......................................................More greenery, landscaping and start to get rid of all of the unecessary fencing and concrete.....
If the Pegula proposal is true - I hope all sides of the facility will be pedestrian friendly and open up nicely to the street and coinciding area
for the webster block. i'd love to see Chiavetta's and salens partner and develop some kind of iconic indoor outdoor space.
edit- sahlens.
a nice open air eatery. the exterior with a strong street presence.
Looks great, if you've never visited a world class city to see (new design or tastefully done mid-century) designs. Sorry, feeling snarky.
2009: "The remodeled Donovan Building will have the ground story extended to eliminate most of the setbacks that currently surround the building."
They really should enforce the original design plan. That large concrete plaza they've added will probably turn into dead space.
How is it that Phillips-Lytle ended up in the premium space of this building? Did any other businesses end up having a chance to occupy this space or was it a sweetheart deal? Why didn't the hotel end up on the upper floors?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Benderson's proposal shows a 4 story mixed use building on the South side of the Donovan Block. Now if you know someone who wants prime office space it that neighborhood tell them to contact Benderson. I'm sure that would put that concept on the fast track to reality.
I give the design a B+. Everything is fine except for the lack of extension to Main Street. That terrace will end up being a dead zone.
What I really want to know: how is this being done with public subsidy, as the Buffalo News report? In Rochester, nothing seems to happen with public money being thrown at it.
Jason, when you say "with" do you mean "without"--?
It's still the best looking Courtyard Inn I've seen.
The Donovan redo should need at least a two-story extension to Main St to follow guidelines. Random structures at the periphery does not a good design make.
As for the ice rink rumor on the Webster block: they are going to have to be pretty progressive in designing it. FNC is already dead on three sides. More dead walls are not needed in the area.
I could imagine it behind the HSBC Atrium. One entrance could fill the empty corner at Scott and Washington. Another entrance could be along Perry facing FNC and the cobblestone establishments. Each entrance could be for one of the rinks with the ability inside to separate the concourse convention-center style or open it up. It would give life to 3 streets (Washington, a potion of Scott and Perry) and tie into the existing ramp at FNC.
Just have to buy some land form HSBC....
I wish Benderson and their partners well -- lots of tenants, customers, hotel guests, profits, etc. But, forgive me, how this design represents "progress," that thing that preservationists allegedly obstruct all over the place, eludes me.
It'd be great if that was a functional public pool. Would add another activity for people to do down there, and it would complement the canal side 'beach' and boating activities nicely. The lake is great to swim in, but you obviously can't swim in the inner harbor. Also, a modern bowling alley with large screens covering the entire alley wall. Ala www.pigpensportsbar.com in Allentown pa. Pipe dreams, maybe. But buffalo needs a solid bowling alley and visitors would be hard pressed to say there's 'nothing' to do here.
Great news for Canisius about the rink/arena. They can fix up to KAC, and playing downtown will bring even more people to the area. Now CC needs to find a stronger conference and really upgrade its program.
This is going to sound extremely naive. But what is so bad about the building being "setback" from the curb? I kinda like the open design, but see how it takes away from the urban design.
IMO - because the setback usually turns into dead space. Look at the plaza around HSBC tower or the large grassy space around the Federal Courthouse. Both are completely unused and uninviting.
In a part of the city that is meant to be a "destination" they should not be wasting land on new private dead-space. It should be designed for dense active use.
ok thanks. I see. I am still okay with the design I think canal side seems to have a more open design anyway so it might be better, but really until other stuff is built around it any progress is good for me.
If all of that does get done, the city almost has to do something with the Cobblestone district.
This is a good project and I look forward to seeing its completion. Some here obviously became obsessed with architecture school critiques because it was an opportunity to be a grumpy bully and you liked it. This project interacts much more with the street. This is not the same as HSBC plaza at all. HSBC has 10+ foot walls around the majority of it with very few access points. I see very little similarity between the two. There's ALOT more going on here with additional features to draw attention and invite seating, etc. Instead of demonizing the concept of a plaza how about considering the fact that HSBC Tower is a strict office building that operates primarily from what? 7-5? This building is more mixed use with a 4 story hotel component, meaning hotel tourists who venture out whenever they may and given the proximity to Cobblestone Dist, Canalside and FN Center I would dare say greatly expands the walkable hours near there. This project is not HSBC, and HSBC is not Cobblestone One. Now, if HSBC would only give WNY Marine Midland Bank back. Thanks for raping WNY for profit by gobbling up our homegrown bank and then abandoning WNY! Ahh the profiteers with blinders on. Nothing wrong with making profit BUT illogical expectations at the expense of fellow human beings involved in your grand profit making schemes that always seem to fall under the public management management term "strategic" is.........!!!! That BS line is old, degrading, disrespectful and UNETHICAL. *Disclaimer statement- this is the position of just one blogger and may not represent everyone.
So then, would you be against our own hometown greedy profit hungry company gobbler that is first niagara? Would you like them to give ct and de their homegrown businesses back? I wouldn't.
So the first building at Canalside doesn't follow the design guidelines? This doesn't make any sense, and it sets a bad precedent for future buildings down there.
All the time and money spent on the guidelines and the developer gets a pass. It would not have cost that much to extend a few floors closer to Main Street.
The original canal district was a busy, crowded space, not a series of windswept plazas.
yes, and now the waters edge will no longer be a continuous public walk but rather interrupted with privatized space*. Yup, sounds like the waterfront is heading in the right direction.
*to be confirmed, however from the looks of it..
I think this all looks great, luv the brick and the plaza uses. I wish all downtown plaza's take note and use thier plaza's like this! Can't wait to enjoy a few drinks on that patio in two-three years.
The original canalside also was heavily polluted. There were coal docks, and dirty ships lining the Buffalo River and the area was populated by sailors, longshoremen, bars, "buffalo gals", and Canal street was notorious as one of the most dangerous locations in the Country. You want that back too? People reminisce about canalside of the past but then say "whoa, I dont want any Buffalo gals taking up houses of ill repute!" Somehow Canalside gets equated instead with a great place to locate a Whole Foods or Trader Joes. Yeah, because thats what was there "historically"...lol
I think publicly accessbile parks and waterfront is fantastic! The Tonawandas have done a great job on this. Take a good look at the entirety of the inner and outer harbor in Buffalo and tell me that public access hasnt greatly benefited from the recent few years. Frankly it leaves me wondering where the developable parcels or the taxable parcels to cover costs have been planned? This project becomes a symbol of a war against public access? Its fronting a yet to be installed faux canal. Really? This isnt fronting the Lake, Niagara River, or Buffalo River.
If Buffalo wants to resuscitate its economy, why not "Buffalo Gals"? Brothels should be legalized, in addition to marijuana. Turn Buffalo into a libertarian paradise. Watch the money roll in.
flyguy - it's not going back 150 years. It's going less than 3 years to the design guidelines and the master plan for Canalside.
fly, I don't see how it's any different than how it's always been. When it benefits Buffalo people are fine with it or silent, then when it doesn't it's some big injustice?
Just as expats such as you don't have any moral or ethical obligation to remain in Buffalo for your whole lives, businesses such as banks don't have any to continue locating jobs forever in places they first started.
Marine Midland provided jobs here for over 100 years, sometimes causing jobs in other places to end. At some point their shareholders decided to sell the business to a non-Buffalo much larger company.
What Tim might have been referring to with First Niagara (originally Lockport Savings Bank) could include that FN ended 200+ back office jobs in New Haven, CT after buying NewAlliance, plus another 300 jobs in southeast PA after they bought Harleysville Bank there. (those are two examples - there might be more.)
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/04/15/business/doc4da8bb6627cc5775941004.txt?viewmode=fullstory
"First Niagara completes NewAlliance acquisition
Published: Friday, April 15, 2011
... Some in the Greater New Haven community have opposed the deal since it was first announced in August, including New Haven Mayor John DeStefano Jr.
He, along with former state Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, fought the acquisition, claiming it will lead to layoffs in New Haven and prompt lending decisions affecting local consumers and businesses to be made in New York, where First Niagara is headquartered.
More than 200 layoffs in Connecticut have already been announced, with the bulk coming in New Haven, though First Niagara officials have said they are cutting back-office jobs and will be adding more “customer-facing” positions in the region. …"
Also http://articles.mcall.com/2010-02-03/business/all-a19_5hnbc.7165777feb03_1_first-niagara-financial-harleysville-national-corp-million-in-local-deposits
"300 jobs to be eliminated in Harleysville Bank takeover
February 03, 2010
About 300 jobs will be eliminated at Harleysville National Corp., including 11 in Emmaus, a spokeswoman said. ...The 298 cuts are a result of duplicate positions as Buffalo, N.Y.-based First Niagara Financial takes over Harleysville…"
Even Marie Midland before selling itself to HSBC had a history during the 1900's of buying up other banking co's in other cities while they stayed HQ'ed here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Midland_Bank
"… By the turn of the century, Marine Bank of Buffalo began to expand through merger. In 1897 it absorbed the American Exchange Bank and in 1902 it acquired the Buffalo Commercial Bank. That same year it became a national bank and changed its name to Marine National Bank of Buffalo.
The next acquisition came in 1913 when Marine absorbed Columbia National Bank. Six years later Bankers Trust was acquired. ... By the mid-1930s, Marine had acquired eight other banks. …"
Thanks for the info, whatev. You're making me look lazy!
Tell me how the many benefits that offshoring and cheap labor overseas and corporate "loyalty" has been a benefit to WNY and mining country, the rust belt? Tell the City of Buffalo, Lackawanna, Niagara Falls, Jamestown, Meadville PA, Youngstown OH, Cleveland, OH, Detroit MI, Toledo OH, Rochester, NY, Flint, MI, almost all of West Virginia, etc. etc. Tell the tens or hundreds of thousands of displaced former residents who as well who would have been happy staying home near family. How has the recipe worked for the left behind cities and states? Hmm?
At least FN seems embedded here, and management lives regionally or has regional ties.
But hey, as long as the shareholders are happy with quarter after quarter profit at look the other way whatever expense! Right?
An economy with a soul would be ideal thats all i'm advocating for, whatever that may be. A bit of human element consideration thats all. Its little wonder that cities abandoned by employers who decide to relocate a workforce overseas or to the border have become havens for decline, depopulation, high crime, social and psychological decay. The argument used to be get away from blue collar, get a college degree and go white collar. Now even white collar jobs in some s instances go elsewhere and there are those left holding college loans from that new "promise" of success. Its also apparent that its little if any consideration in the last 30 years of multinational decision making. These are the groups who stress how great capitalism and "free markets" are yet love to go to bed with communist and socialist cheap labor, whore out the environment countries. Interesting hypocrites they are. I guess as long as its in someone elses backyard its ok? Its "strategic" I know.
Global development leads to less conflict. Trade agreements have a trade dynamic, a defense dynamic and a global integration dynamic. We weep for the world and thus we create a social construct for the world to participate.
As a result, we create open markets through multilateral institutions for developing economies to participate. The downside is corporations in the west chase for the bottom. The upside is less global conflict and integration. If we close door it we are imperialistic, if we open door it we share capitalism with the rest of the world and the live with what we have now. Choices.
Charlotte, NC called, it wants its soulless, mass produced building style back
Yes, they want to plop it into the middlie of a city that is actually thriving and growing.
Do the Design Guidelines allow surface parking lots like the one planned for One Canalside?
As always, great overview of the project. It's posts like this that keep me coming back to the website.
In related news the children's museum also got the stamp of approval. However it won't be relocated until 2016. Yawn.
http://www.bizjournals.com/mobile/buffalo/news/2012/05/09/childrens-museum-a-go-at-buffalos.html
2016..."IF" we can raise 6 million by then? Maybe in the RFP it should have been specified that the bidder of choice must be open for business by the end of 2014.
I'm going to be dead before Canalside ever resembles anything close to what could be called FINISHED! :(
i'm worried about the elevated, walled off plaza. didn't we already do that, with ghastly effect, at the marine midland/hsbc tower?
mpfff. Cheap developer + subrurban architect = one canalside
Question: why are concerned parties so concerned with not naming the new courthouse after Donovan when the Donovan building will no longer be named after him? He was one of the most accomplished citizens of Buffalo. And wasn't Jackson's connection to the city far less?
Take it from this Bender, Benderson got themselves a winner with this redevelopment. Not ideal perhaps, but what is? Even the World Trade Center tower turned out to be a big $$$ flop.
The plan needs more "greenspace", trees, plantings, 'PUBLIC ART' & landscape design around the plaza. We NEED the green to give off the oxygen to counteract the toxins given off by the traffic in the downtown area and shade for pedestrians IF indeed we want people to linger, spend $$$ in the prospering new waterfront area of redevelopment. ;-)
Leave a comment
Sponsor
Recent Comments
Sponsor
Interested in advertising on BuffaloRising?
E-mail John C. Powell
or call John at 716.602.0200




If it actually turns out as rendered, this is a excellent reuse of the Donovan building. I especially like the fact that they put the parking lot in the back of the building and not facing what will eventually be canalside.