The day... the music... died.

Im interested to hear how the crowd was split on the issue, 50/50, 40/60, 30/70?

I imagine 99% of the people here agree with you...I want a city like other cities with cool, hip neighborhoods;(plural), where younger people want to move into and live and where business people, restauranteurs do want to be creative and set up shop. Move to Delaware between West Delevan and Allen if you want quiet and slow....
Cant we just get out of the way of ourselves for once in this city and let it grow and change..I love living in WNY but it sickens me every time I go to any other city and see the type of vibrancy I so want here...It can happen and should happen....
The Thirsty Buffalo location was a dead zone for patrons until someone from the suburbs came in, changed the bar and the vibe...now it is full to capacity for sports events...
We need Elmwood to embrace ideas, creativity, jobs, outsiders willing to put their money into the area...

I understand both sides, what I don't understand is why a compromise cannot be reached. I think music until 11pm or midnight weekdays, and 1-2am on weekends is a reasonable compromise. The fact they cannot play any music at any level in the interim is hard to believe....good luck to the owner, business is difficult enough in New York and situations like this are unbelievably frustrating

I'd also like to hear a little more about the actual meeting. A friend of mine attended, but she is firmly on the pro Acropolis side and didn't have anything too objective to say about the opposition.

I live on Elmwood, right in the heart of it, a stones throw from the Co Op, Sole, Dolci, Spot and I understand living in the city comes with a certain amount of noise. I'll wake up to ambulances, drunk people yelling, the Co Op's dumpsters getting emptied but they are all just facts of life. I guess I might feel different if I owned a house behind what was a greek diner and is now being turned into a bar. I'd have some concerns. But I also feel like the owner has been in the neighborhood for a long time and if you address your issues in an adult fashion there's a pretty good chance he'll work with you to try an make everyone happy. Listening to a neighbor practice their drums is a completely different beast than the prospect of bass rumbling out of a neighbors building at 3am night in and night out. Is that what Acropolis will be? I have no idea. The owner seems pretty quick to sell this as a low key, relaxed place for adults where you can listen to a DJ but still have a conversation. If that's the case I think the neighbors have little to worry about aside from the noise of a few more drunk people on the street at closing time.

I understand both sides, what I don't understand is why a compromise cannot be reached. I think music until 11pm or midnight weekdays, and 1-2am on weekends is a reasonable compromise. The fact they cannot play any music at any level in the interm is hard to believe....good luck to the owner, business is difficult enough in New York and situations like this are unbelievably frustrating.

I don't understand why Acropolis is being held to noise restrictions that Blue Monk, Cecelias, Faherty's, Toro and others seem to be completely exempt from.

My biggest question after listening to all the comments about the alleged "drunk patrons" was...How on earth if you live on Ashland, Norwood, Breckenridge, W. Ferry, or Cleveland can you look at someone walking down your street being loud and drunk and say, "Well, they were just at Acropolis". IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. They could have come from ANY bar in the neighborhood, or a neighborhood home.

This whole thing is pretty shocking. I'm just hopeful that it doesn't prevent potential small business owners from wanting to try to start or expand businesses on Elmwood. And also that Acropolis doesn't end up closing entirely.

It seems like Acropolis is being penalized for having a successful, long-lasting business. If that was a vacant building, they would be happy to have a louder bar move in because vacant property would be worse for the neighborhood property values etc.

This to me signifies a problem going back to Muriel Howard and her antipathy if not hostility to the neighborhood surrounding Buffalo State during her politically motivated affirmative action tenure.

During the 60s turbulence and flight to suburbia it was the cultural district together with Buffalo State that create Elmwood and saved the neighborhood from the fate experienced on the Eastside. By the time Howard came along Elmwood was stable and Buffalo State should have groomed GRANT STREET as the the place where students congregate instead of Elmwood.

But Buffalo State firmly entrenched itself to turn its back on Grant Street inturn causing this problem to persist.

Laundromats & dry cleaners, supermarkets, bars, coffee shops, bookstores and all the cheap low margin eclectic businesses could have easily been encouraged...along with low rents in the Grant Amherst neighborhood. Simple thing like moving teacher offices and/or extending campus safety (and cameras) along Grant Street and/or a college directory...would have made a difference.

Elmwood much like Chippewa would be allowed to continue its evolution into a more mature environment. Perhaps Elmwood would have been able to retain more of its mix of residential as well.

Muriel Howard was aweful for Buffalo and the surrounding neighborhood.

This, like the food truck nonsense, is pure small town, provincial bull$#$%. Grow up, Buffalo.

If one thinks Arcopolis is a nightclub and is overly loud, then I would suggest that you don't know what a nightclub actaully is.

Acropolis is great for the neighboorhood as an alternative for the older crowd (like me). Some people will complain about almost anything. This is such a non-issue. In the summer, Blue Monk is pretty loud until quite late. Cecelia's plays live music outside on a weekday in the summer. Why are these OK, but Acropolis can't play the radio inside? This whole thing stinks.

I too am voting towards the latter (second camp) and allowing Acropolis to proceed as planned...with the stipulation that they meet the same standards (music and performance as well as drink serving standards) that apply to Blue Monk and similar restaurants and bars.

The REAL PROBLEM with so many "developers" or business owners...is that they like to make changes in their property and services WITHOUT public knowledge, consent, or approval. A simple business plan presented to the "authorities" with public consent not only simplifies matters by informing the public...it usually engages the public support just by having them involved!

Be all inclusive of your customers and the public...they're part of the community too!

Did anyone see the lady on the news holding the key her supposed neighbor gave her to use so she could sleep someplace else when she couldn't deal with the noise? And she uses it 2 times a week... seriously!? If people like that want peace and quiet 24/7 then please move to the suburbs or invest in a nice pair of ear plugs.

Have any of the people commenting in favor of the Acropolis actually lived near a loud establishment, or had drunken assholes destroying their quality of life many weeknights and every single weekend? I agree that the Acropolis problem is probably easily solved, and I don't think it has to become a huge issue. However, I also think that people have the right to sleep through the night if they have to wake up at 6AM, no matter where they live.

Loud parties, drunken college students, broken beer bottles, thumping music, and all sorts of other annoyances are a real problem, and my guess is that most people crying foul on this criticism reside far enough away from The Strip to be insulated from the DAILY problems that often come from constant alcohol abuse and lack of consideration.

I've lived on the West Side for years, and I'm moving to North Buffalo in a few weeks because the inconsiderate, boorish, downstate college douche bags who moved in next door to me think they have the right to destroy the sleeping patterns of the entire block.

Not everybody has the time or inclination to drink all night and sleep all day. Those who do should have some respect for the rest of us.

People are really going to freak out when they hear my plans to resurrect La Boom! Nightclub in the Elmwood Village this summer!

It is obviously a very different situation, but the attitude here cannot help but remind me of the situations small airports face around the country. People move somewhere knowing that there is an airport, and then sue to get the airport shut down. Stupid as it seems, people are successful all the time.
This is the same sort of attitude of "screw progress, we want to live in a bubble." I find the airport analogy a little more appalling than this, but it is still dumb.

"the day the music died."

excessively melodramatic headline, doncha think?

It's entirely frustrating to watch time and time again, the city impede its own ability to evolve and progress. Over what, this time? Acropolis. To say that the old Acropolis was an eyesore doesn't do it justice. The new facade is clean and appears to be well thought out. It certainly caters to an older, more professional crowd. This opposition to 'loud' music is so trivial. This is low-hanging fruit, as it relates to city issues. Let's start investing time and energy into issues that REALLY matter. I applaud the owner for investing in his little piece of the city.

The bottom line is that you will never make everyone happy...The city needs to get some balls and let them play music but it needs to be monitored...If the owner is willing to abide by the legal decible level set by the city for music let him proceed....He's investing big bucks of his own money in the place! For all those still not happy trust me they never will be!

I hardly consider the addition of another bar to the Elmwood District as progress. If there was a dearth of bars perhaps - but we all know that is not the case. There is a battle for Elmwood Village and the Acropolis is in the middle of it. There will be more battles to come - the green space on Bidwell for example. If you step back and think about why this is happening it is because people want to live in the District. That's progress and not Buffalo being the same old, same old. People are investing by purchasing homes and planting a stake in the ground. I dare say that the result may displace some current residents and entertainment venues but cities that are moving in the right direction inherently have these battles.

Quuenseyes,

I don't know the nuances of this issue since there has not been a balanced report about it. I see no problem with the music if it's kept at a reasonable level. If there has been permit flouting, that's another story. But I think this could be worked out without all this hand wringing about how backward the neighborhood is, or the insinuation that only people of a certain age understand city living.

But callow and petulant posts don't promote reasonable conversation about issues that are not simple. First, do you really think that city life boils down to two camps? To quiet types and young hipsters? That's it? Maybe it's time to think in shades of grey, since what we don't want is a neighborhood in which everyone has one sensibility. Second, do you think that only young people are capable of adding vitality to a city? If you do, you have scant knowledge of what built and gave you the neighborhood, cultural institutions, and civic history you enjoy. It was not "hip" or "cool" young people, the type who sulk if they feel their neighborhood does not bottle feed them the now homogenized, predictable buzz of the "cool"-- as you would put it-- neighborhood.

So, advocate for the restaurant's desire for a different atmosphere (and insist that they follow the rules), but don't harangue vital citizens with dreary warnings about the "dead city." It's not anywhere dead. You know that.

And look up the word "cosmopolitan."

Why doesn't he claim the nightclub is organic, then everything would be ok.

Empire Grill started to host "DJs" about a year ago that would start their music at midnight and run until 4 am. I am young and hip and have a family, but....THAT WAS ANNOYING! If this is just a bar, then bars are loud ala Gecko's or Mr Goodbar, but not annoying. Has to be a difference between the two. If you want to rave, go downtown where it is zoned for such distrubances.

It sounds to me though that this guy wants to open a bar.

Now I get it, Acropolis is publicly traded and Newell's a shareholder. I can't help but feel that if Shatzel wanted to expand the Monk BR wouldn't go to the wall like they are for this guy. It's weird. But let's cater, yet again, to the "kids" as we all know that youth is the best base for urban areas. Screw families and retired people. The transiency of loft dwellers, singles with no children in the schools, 20 somethings whose main focus in life is hooking up and getting drunk that's exactly what the city needs more of.

This scenario reminds me of the time when the Renaissance Fair Corporation approached the village of Olcott Beach about initiating one of their medieval fairs within the undeveloped section of Krull Park.

The town meeting, held in the now defunct fire hall, was packed to the rafters with all of us residents which, much to my surprise, were all in favor of the Renaissance Fair coming to our small hamlet.

However, the retired Delphi residents, with more money than brains, vetoed the whole idea and one, with more than three brain cells, researched the park deed and discovered a clause forbidding the park being used for profit even though a section of the park had been leased to one of the local farmers for years!

Different story, small old tune….

Oh, the farmer no longer leases the land.

Almost every issue on this website eventually devolves into the same tired duality: boring suburbanites holding us back vs cool young city dwellers who want growth. Its not that simple. I probably fall into the latter category but find myself often against 'growth' for a variety of reasons. I love bars and loud music but I realize they arent for everyone and shouldnt be everywhere - regardless of how a neghborhood is zoned. In fact I'm sure both sides understand the complexities. Hopefully the bar opens and is as promised, but know that it will have all of the problems for the city that ALL bars have (in spades, if this summer was any indication of how Acropolis operates)
Its really annoying to discuss issues on this website beyond hoorays for growth, and boos for suburbia. It kills conversation and I dont even think that decribes Buffalo very well. Every project or demolition should be looked at in its own right with an eye toward the future
and the analytical tools of the 90's will not help us anymore.

Thats ridiculous, its not about drunks and young people, its about the area growing, changing and not having to deal with a bunch of B.S. every time someone has an idea to improve the area..This whole topic is embarrassing and yet entertaining....The Elmwood village is having a town hall meeting over a greek restaurant wanting to increase employment and increase the vibrancy of his establishment? How pathetic, no matter if he reasons are selfish or not, he is using his own money and growing a business.....It could be worse and who knows it might be sooner than later if these OLD people have there way...More vacant buildings, for lease signs...If I were theses people I would move to cheaper more accomodating areas, Hertel Avenue, Allen, Delaware.......

The city of Buffalo, the elmwood and Delaware lack something and it has for 20 years or more...Buffalo lacks the Urban feel that attracts a certain age group that likes to spend money, live and grow...Most of the age group; 25 - 40 either move to the suburbs and or out of town for better jobs, culture, nightlife, people and vibe...To build the city around these demographic is key. First we need jobs to retain these people - But secondly and most important you need, vibrancy, electricity and culture within the areas they want to live...Getting younger professional people to live and stay where they are is simple; give them the things that they want....Diverse bars, restaurants, coffee shops, wine bars, theater, social gathering areas...But to do that we need to get rid of people who just dont like change...If you want quiet...move to Darien or Springville...

Even Pano was interviewed and said if residents want no noise they should move to Marilla. I find it's funny that he's backing a restauranteur who is essentialy copying his business model a few blocks away.

If this were a different block of Elmwood, say between North and Bryant, I could understand. But I find it difficult to believe this will be any more disruptive than Cecelia's, Blue Monk, Spot Coffee, or any other establishment that is literally a few feet away. Furthermore, I drove by yesterday and failed to see a residence any closer to Acropolis than another commercial establishment, including Ceceilia's with a larger open patio.

The bottom line is that the "noise" precendent has been established for many many years in this section of Elmwood and that should be enough to get this resolved.

This all seems very similar to Pano's on Elmwood, Starbucks on Elmwood, Elmwood Village Hotel on Elmwood and Forest, Gates Circle Tower on Gates Circle. Inevitably whether built or not the community moves on and as far as I can see Pano's and Starbucks have been pretty solid down there. This seems like pre-development NIMBY jitters

Sole has live music, snooty fox has live music, and acropolis will attract a similar demographic. I don't think debauchery would be tolerated here.

Do bars really need to be open till 4 AM? Why can't they formulate a compromise where the place shuts down at 1 AM and let those who want to continue partying take a cab down to Allentown or Chippewa?

The debate is purely conceptual.
No one has any idea what the acoustics would be, which determines the level of noise.
The only way to really know is to do it.
Only then can a mutual agreement be met.

I am quite sure that it is nothing compared to the motorcycles at Merlin's back in the day. I remember living above Fee at 4 am with out fail, those bikes would be a-revvin'. City living! That little baby got used to it and so did I. That being said, I must be the curmudgeon and declare that I loved Acropolis the way it was back when it was lovingly called "Acrapolis". Also, although I don't know the family that owns Acropolis personally, I know that they are really nice people that have served The Strip well for a long long time. Cut 'em some slack. Keep up the good work Acropolis!

My argument in all of this isn't necessarily the sound issue, though the lack of respect given to those who don't want another bar in their backyard is pretty disrespectful, if I live across the street from a shooting range I don't think I'd want another on the other side of the street. My point is that Elmwood is in sore need of some diversity. Restaurant, bar, salon, coffee shop... come on. I guess if the market will support those things so be it, but it would be nice to see BR get behind something truly new & creative. It says a lot about the people dominating this thread, are your lives that singular that you're in such a need of another nightclub? Personally, i think another bar is the last thing the city needs.

"..not have a record of problems with his neighbors"-you didn't hear or are ignoring their history of asking Paul to work out a solution only to be rebuffed over and over. His arrogance is why he finds himself in this fiasco.

Fair enough Joe, nothing wrong with you being ignorant of your arrogance.

What can I say, you make it easy.

Thanks for writing a great balanced article on the tensions involved in development on Elmwood. It is always frustrating for me to watch from the outside on these issues. I can understand some of the positions of the other camp, but I see development on Elmwood as so positive for Buffalo's growth that it is hard for me to accept that people would not support the expansion of a business that has been on the strip for decades. Elmwood is such a pleasant and dynamic neighborhood - the dynamic part brings new people into the city, the pleasant part is stable enough to make them stay. Elmwood is great neighborhood for both of these reasons. I hate watching businesses with only the good of the city at heart find so much resistance to improvement.

I understand the neighbors with concern about adding more noise and drunks to the area with the addition of another bar but as long as the establishment is following noise ordinances and the police are patrolling for people being too routy I don't see an issue. Just saying living in a city so you should have to deal with noise is a weak argument but living in an entertainment district is whole other thing. Even in the suburbs if you live near a bar or bars there's going to be a bit more noise. you know that when you move in and only have a valid complaint if those places break the law.

I live on a busy street in Buffalo so I can understand both sides of the issue. However, if Acropolis doesn't have a history of creating unreasonable noise disturbances for residents, then halting their expansion seems a bit unfair to me.

If they were blasting music at all hours of the night and inviting drunken patrons to throw trash all over neighbors' yards, that would be different. But I don't get the impression that's the case.

It's completely unfair that the city has the right to ban them from playing the radio inside their own building just because a few NIMBYs are raising a fuss.

Elmwood Avenue is a regional attraction that brings in both neighborhood residents and people from other parts of the city and county. That generates money, jobs, and opportunities for people in the neighborhood and makes our city a fun and attractive place. A reasonable amount of noise in the evenings and on the weekends seems like a worthy compromise.

"whatever" wrote "To deny a business a license because they *might* violate it doesn't sound at all fair or reasonable."

The concern is not because of what he "might" do, but because of what he *did* do. I love music, I just don't want to hear other people's music when I want quiet. Why should anyone be forced to hear loud music they don't like? Or even loud music they like when they don't want to hear it? Thankfully I don't have to breath cigarette smoke I don't like anymore.

Acropolis hasn't been alone in building first, getting permits later. Blue Monk did the same thing. There are several other examples of this currently before the Zoning Board.

Elmwood has been very successful and lived with the restrictions of EB Zoning for over 30 years. It would easy to argue that EB zoning is why Elmwood is so successful. I don't care how Acropolis is classified, nightclub, bar, whatever. It should simply comply with the laws or work towards changing the laws. Try telling the judge you think the speed limit should be raised to 80 MPH. Good luck.

A couple of years ago an existing restaurant in EV opened, built a bar, and served food. Great. I only went once but I thought it was good to have a place like this in the neighborhood. Restaurant went under, new restaurant comes in, changes the menu, adds a sidewalk patio, and things are still OK. Then the new restaurant takes out half their dining tables and hangs 2 for 1 Ladies night posters in their window and suddenly their patrons are hanging outside to smoke, leaving butts all over the place and rambling through the neighborhoods after closing (4:30 AM). The point? People may not be sure they are getting what they thought they were getting.

A couple of years ago an existing restaurant in EV opened, built a bar, and served food. Great. I only went once but I thought it was good to have a place like this in the neighborhood. Restaurant went under, new restaurant comes in, changes the menu, adds a sidewalk patio, and things are still OK. Then the new restaurant takes out half their dining tables and hangs 2 for 1 Ladies night posters in their window and suddenly their patrons are hanging outside to smoke, leaving butts all over the place and rambling through the neighborhoods after closing (4:30 AM). The point? People may not be sure they are getting what they thought they were getting.

This is another valid reason why business doesn't want to invest in Buffalo. All this foolhardy, idiotic opposition against the Acropolis plans to upgrade into a hip place. If some of these NIMBYs don't like it, then they should do everyone a good favor and move out. This is a major city, not little house on the prairie.

Newell (aka queenseyes), you are so wrong in your assessment of the people you describe in the first paragraph. I am opposed to the sound levels I heard form Acropolis last year. I support what Paul says he wants. But there are contradictions. His supporters say it is not a noisy place but Paul talked about all the soundproofing he has installed. Either it is noisy and doesn't need soundproofing, or it is and he does.

If I'm in your "opposition" group, I don't fit. I'm not raising a family and I'm not retired. Actually most of the people I met in the "quiet" camp are not retired, some are raising families. If the Tralf is a nightclub, I like nightclubs; I have been going to hear music at the old Tralf on Main near Fillmore and the new Tralf downtown for about 35 years. Many Acropolis supporters say they would never go to a "nightclub". Really? BUT I would not want to subject neighbors of the Tralf to the sound levels I have experienced there. Fortunately the old Tralf was in a basement with a Taco shop upstairs. I never heard any complaints about the volume. The new Tralf is in Theater Place, also a place where there is enough separation from residents so as not to be a problem. I guess you and all your friends would hate both places. Too bad - great national music acts have performed there.

The issue is noise. Many in your group of people (like Pano) suggest that my friends should move to the suburbs or beyond (Pano suggested Marilla!). Surely you don't really agree with that. Promote suburban sprawl because city living is for people who can sleep through loud music at 1:00 AM. Really? I know you don't believe that - is that Buffalo Rising? But you place yourself in that camp. Good that you could tolerate your neighbor drummer; should every city dweller?

Okay, your "second camp" likes the Greek euro-whatever is was called quiet scene. Is that what is demonstrated YouTube videos shot at Acropolis like Kerianne - Hip Hop Kareoke and hip-hop artist Billy Drease Williams? Fine. Keep the volume down and enjoy. No neighbors have a problem with music they can't hear.

You wrote "We live in a city that should be vibrant, not dead." Before the change of use by Acropolis this City was "dead"? Really? That's not what I have been reading on Buffalo Rising for several years.

You need to read the City Charter 511-55 and 511-56. 511-55 describes how "restricted use" is applied, 511-56 describes what business types are "restricted" in the EB Zoning district. "Restricted Use". Sort of like "speed limit"; speed is limited or "restricted". Some "uses" on Elmwood are "restricted" or "limited". A really simple concept. The City of Buffalo may "restrict" the use of a property. Actually because the Acropolis was remodeled it is no longer "grandfathered" in that "restricted use" and the City could withdraw their permit to operate a restaurant and bar.

Maybe we should make business owners memorize the city charter, but I guess we don't really need this since apparently there are a whole army of idiots out there who already have it memorized and are willing applying their vast base of meaningless knowledge as they interpret it. Why don't you sue him?

If he owns the building, he should close it, board it up and fill it with food so the rats come. Apparently there are already a lot there anyway.

Respect your neighbors...this guy has obviously done something to piss the wrong people off. I don't care for this restaurant at all...I've been twice for breakfast and it was horrible; I won't go for lunch.

Move to Marilla...haha. You live in the city you shouldn't like sleep..the sidwalks are dirty, well its cityliving, you have no where to park your car for the house you own..well the city at its finest..Ooo look at that bumb picking through my trash, a true highlight of city living..my street looks like the slopes at Kissing Bridge..who needs a plow in the city.

I've never come across a bar/restaurant on Elmwood or anywhere outside of Chippewa that I thought was obscenly loud. But then again..I don't live next to or around Acropolis. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the concerns of area residents and dismiss anything that maybe going on here as "city living". It happens all too much.

Thats why I live in the sub's.......Nice,quiet,safe!

if people want quiet, then they should move to the suburbs not the city. ugh...

Someday, the city of buffalo will get out of its own way and success, prosperity, and progress will pulse through its veins. Perhaps.

But until then.....

How bout them food trucks?

I am not really familiar with the Acropolis situation, and have no opinion one way or the other about its music other than there are existing laws on the book in regards to noise pollution, if they are violating them or propose the establishment should be given a variance, it is a local neighborhood issue.

That said, I am very bothered by comments in regards to the nature of urban vitality. Comments by BR in regards to the two camps. I love cities, I have studied cities. My favorite urbanist is William Whyte and his work on public places. A successful public place is welcoming to all types--the pan handlers, the older generation playing chess in a public park, the skateboarders, the more punk crowd, mothers and grandmothers with strollers at a park. For a strip like Elmwood to be successful, it should be accommodating to all users-the bar crowd, the families, and the older generation.

Saying those who disagree with your side of an issue should move to the suburbs is not pro-urban, but anti-urban. The NYT recently had an article on the grey tsunami coming to cities. Discussed the cities such as New York City, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, Portland, and Atlanta on the cutting edge embracing the concept of welcoming to all generations.

Maybe, instead of proposing that the older generation move to the suburbs, the focus should be on appreciating and respecting differences and work toward a compromise.