Small business hours can be hard on customers...

9-5pm don't work for those who WORK 9-5pm. Thank you for pointing this problem out.

I worked at a bar/restaurant in Buffalo where the owner would just randomly close the bar when it wasn't busy on a friday or saturday night. This owner could not figure out why no one would come to his bar on friday nights even when he was open. I kept telling him that you can't just close the doors when you feel like it--you get the reputation of unreliability and people think that you're not open. Needless to say, he's permanently CLOSED now. Keep your posted hours bars and restaurants, you'll die a slow death if you don't!!

Thank you QE for finally giving some love and appreciation to places like Walmart and Target.

This is very frustrating especially on Hertel. I swear the Sterling Tavern is closed on a whim, even on weekend nights. The lights only on half the time when I drive by. I know the owners of Room were going to try to get more businesses in the district open on Sundays - they were doing counts when they first opened. Not sure what happened with that.
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I understand that small business owners have families too, but isn't that part of the deal to owning a small business? Can't they be closed Mondays or Tuesdays like in many other places? I really do want to shop at these places - but 9-5 doesn't work for me as a customer either.

Very good point, especially on Hertel, I've been meaning to go to all the cool new furniture stores but they are never open past 7:00 pm. As a person who usually works till about 5:45, once you factor in eating dinner and the commute it is hard to get to these stores

Check out the West Side Bazaar....we DO understand...We are open 11-6pm Tuesday _ Saturday....During the Holiday's we were open every day....We are located @ 242 Grant Street next to Guercios

I completely agree with this. People in Elmwood/Hertel have money to spend. The dynamic has changed in the past 10 years and the people buying the 100 -300K houses have to work 9 - 5 but want to support their community and local economy.

We need a critical mass of stores to stay open for a longer period of time. If it is marketed well and everyone realizes that the stores are open later - people will come and they will shop. People want consistency and want to support local!

I also think the store leases or the neighborhood should make the owners stay open.. the mall is open and the stores have to be open because their lease requires them.. but on elmwood or Hertel, there are no standards in place by the neighborhood or by the building owner/lease agreement.. It would be interesting to see how or if standards could be put into place to promote longer hours.

Where is the EVA or Buffalo First in all of this? How can we convince the right channels that the area residents want longer and consistent hours?

Not to throw them under the bus, but one of my favorate places, Mangoz, says 11:00 on the door, but get there around 12:15 and you'll be lucky if everything's set up, or open at all!

Well... do people want small businesses to treat their employees like disposable garbage and pay them minimum wage like McDonalds to stay open for longer hours/cover shifts or do we want small businesses to to treat their employees like human beings while paying them as such and deal with the occasional sporadic hours? Pick one.

The issue isn't limited to dual-income families. Singles have the same constraints.

When I took over Cafe 59 from the previous owner, I started to expand the hours. Let's face it, every time a new restaurant/coffee shop opens, the entire BR community talks about how they would become regular patrons, if only the hours were longer. Invariably, the owner extends hours, takes losses for as many months as is bearable, and then shortens his day...only to be told that he'd have more business if his hours were extended.

I am currently planning on cutting my hours to be more on par with other lunch places in the neighborhood for just this reason...I consistently loose money both before and after lunch. If the community wants longer hours, then they need to vote with their dollars--no business closes when they are making money.

I really do like the food trucks, and it's pretty obvious that BR readers do, as well. How many hours a day are they open? That business is, by nature, transient; they are open during the hours that make them money, and gone for the rest of the day. Why should brick and mortar establishments be held to a different standard?

Besides, think of it this way: Whatever 9-5 job you may hold...I, and the entire restaurant industry, want that service at 2AM. Why aren't you available?

Sterling Tavern is easily the worst offender. I also never got why places like the bank, doctors, or Post Office were open so early, those places should open at 11.

Staying open when your customers want you open is absolutely essential to the success of any business. Knowing who your customers are is the first step, which many businesses seem not to spend time understanding. Every time I have extended my hours, products or services to fill the real needs of my customers it never fails to succeed. Understanding what those needs are takes work and being willing to do it regardless if it is personally inconvenient or temporarily unprofitable is the challenge many customers see their favorite businesses fail at.
When I find a business that understands what I need and delivers it reliably, my loyalty is unwavering.

I remember some pizzeria in Kaisertown (Molino's?) that had posted hours that were different EVERY day. Something like:

Sunday: 1 PM - 7 PM
Monday-Tuesday: 11 AM - 3 PM, 4 PM - 9 PM
Wednesday: CLOSED
Thursday: 12 PM - 9 PM
Friday: 5 PM - 12 AM
Saturday: 4 PM - 1 AM

Old-school barbers in Buffalo are pretty bad, too. They have one day off in addition to Sunday, and that day is different for each barber; some are closed Monday, some Tuesday, some Thursday. A lot also do the "gone fishing" thing at inexplicable times. My favorite barber back in Buffalo is closed far more days than they're open, and it's hit-or-miss whether he'll be there when I visit.

Independent businesses in the suburbs don't seem to have the same flaky hours as those in the city.

A lot of European businesses have hours like that. I can remember the local butcher shop in Germany being open for like a total of 5 hours a day on weekdays, with a couple of hours in the middle day off for lunch. That's to say nothing of the southern Europeans and their siestas. If there was anything that made me feel like an American when I was over there, it was the inconvenience of trying to shop at the local little stores, since they were never open when you actually had time to go there.

Broadway Market...struggling...only open until 5pm daily.

I work for an EXTREMELY successful entrepreneur in Buffalo. One of his best lines is "The customer will tell you how to run your business". If you are not listening to your customer, you are doomed. You don't own the business, the business owns you.

I find this article amusing considering who wrote it and what certain restaurant on Main probably had the most sporadic hours of all and recently closed.

I remember when Talking Leaves first opened on Elmwood. They first had similar hours to its Main St. location and closed early. They must have realized what they needed to do because that didn't last long. Now they even have good Sunday hours.

I have lived off of Hertel for almost six years and I'm a craft beer drinker. I have never been to Sterling Tavern for the reason mentioned (although I've wanted to)above and, I've heard at least, they have some of the best taps on Hertel. But who wants to do a recon mission to see if they're open before finding a babysitter and hitting up the ATM? Regular hours = regular patrons.

What's wrong with 11/12 - 7/8? That's not treating anybody like garbage. I'd bet that most employees would love that sort of schedule.. I sure did when I was 20!

I've heard good things about the burger and the owners too, guess I'll just have to wait it out. We did almost all of our Christmas shopping on Hertel this year, I even went so far as to buy an antique lamp. Most merchants spoke about how much success they were having, I can only think it was good promotion and extended hours that made it happen. My wife went nuts in one of the clothing stores and the prices were lower than Marshalls. I think last Christmas could prove to be a turning point the neighborhood's retail mentality. I tend to think of Hertel first when I need to buy a gift or get somethin in particular, whereas a year or two ago it would have been an afterthought.
If anyone is familiar with the Southgate Plaza in West Seneca its is amazing after 30+ years how vibrant it is and its fully occupied. While a suburban plaza is very different from an urban business district, SG has thrived where other "plaza" retail centers have vacated or been taken over by big box retailers. You get a Hertelesque type of an experience there (in a twisted suburban type of way), with a diverse walkable format, even the occasional sidewalk dining experience. Lots of events held in the parking lot, auto shows, carnivals etc. As a kid we went there a lot AFTER my mom got home from work.

When I lived in a flourishing neighborhood in Chicago, over 20 years ago, the merchants quickly learned to keep hours to meet their customers' needs. Dry cleaners, and EVEN BANKS, were open late and on SUNDAYS just to meet the demand. They thrived.

What I find amazing is that people on this board have knocked Sterling Place, while offering Java Temple(Café 59’s previous incarnation) as an example of a business with well thought out hours. Sterling has been viable—and financially very profitable—for around twenty years. Why? Nice people, great food, no credit cards(the fees are a killer), and the ability to close early on slow nights. While most people see the POTENTIAL lost customers, John and Judy benefit from the VERY REAL reduced overhead and labor costs.

Java Temple was open late, and frequently full of people that weren’t spending any significant money…Heidi, the owner, also didn’t open until the afternoon. The place lasted five years without making any real profit or keeping current on taxes, and the owner lived in the storage area attached to the kitchen.

The owner of Five Points Bakery is absolutely correct: Knowing your customers and staying open when they want you is a fundamental of business. Of course, his bakery has hours that many on this comment thread would bitch about. How did he choose these hours? I would guess that they are based upon realized sales…not promised ones.

Small business is tough. Off the top of my head, I can think of think of three restaurants within a few blocks of me that have closed in the past month. For what it’s worth, Sweet Tooth, Nadia’s Taste of Soul, and The Eights all had evening hours.

Cafe 59 currently closes at 8PM, after knocking the hours back from 10PM because of a lack of business between those hours.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the advice. OPPS.... IT'S 6PM BETTER GET THE BAR OF MINE OPEN.

PS Please let us know what days are acceptable for us to take a vacation.

Have a good night and more importantly hope you have a sense of humor!!!!

Judy

Going strong but never predictable!!!!

Like someone else said, part of the problem is getting the word out. I'm sure many people never realized the cafe was open until 10pm, or even 8pm. I thought it closed at 7 too which is why i didn't check it out for dinner.

Also in other stores I think there is sometimes a misconception of being "open late". I hear about a store saying they are open late... to me "open late" means 9 or 10pm or later. To the store owner it might just mean 7pm. I'm done with work at 6 and often don't eat until 7 so if other people have schedules like mine, then the store is staying open an extra 2 hours but not getting any extra business because it doesn't make them any more accessible really.

Conley Interiors on Hertel has consistent 9-6 hours, but allow you to make an appointment if you cant make it within that time frame. They are wildy accommodating.....I even made an appointment for a Friday night and they opened their doors. Really nice people and understand people's time constraints!!

Very good post.....retail and restaurants have to change their mindsets to accommodate their customers.

Well as far as retail goes I think certain districts in Buffalo may have a leg up.

Retail is dying in general and is moving toward a "community center" approach. (look at the Galleria and its gradual move into an "entertainment" destination --more focus on restaurants, bars, big new movie theater. I do believe theres plans for a comedy club etc)

I have never really looked at Elmwood and even Hertel as shopping districts. Its really frusturating to hear those pro-Elmwooders talk about how its the best retail in WNY. Its not -its severly lacking in even the most basic of needs. The truth is street side retail hasn't been able to compete with shopping centers and superstores in 50 years..and now shopping centers are re-thinking their strategies because they're loosing their pants to online retailers. I couldn't imagine being a small-business/retailer anywhere in this environment.

There is less retail space coming online countrywide than ever before..shopping centers aren't being built things are changing.

I would imagine in a relatively short amount of time (10-15 yrs) we'll finally be at the point where anything street side will either be entertainment related (rest/bars/clubs), or every day needs.(Food related,liquor store, hair salons etc.) The most successful "developments" whether city street or suburban mall will be those that position themselves best in "unoutsourcable" markets. It'll be more important - now more than ever for small and large retailers to be avaiable when their customers dictate and to attach themselves to the right location of the future.

It kind of creeps me out sometimes..but we're becoming such a lonely society. Shopping and going out is such a socialable experience and people don't even know it. You could order every single thing you want online and not blink twice now.

I think Buffalo's got a leg up in that the districts we do have have got some solid bones as far as dining/entertainment go. But no means are they fantastic or perfect but its a great start..and you can't outsource a meal or pick it up online..this should be a focal point in development from here on out.

I'm really confused as to why so people are commenting that The Eights is closed. Their Facebook page has been active and I can't find any information about their closing online; they do have a new head chef, though.

Something not mentioned (though admittedly I was skimming) is security. Staying open until 9PM with a retail store on Elmwood and Hertel is one thing but quite another in other parts of the city.

Responding to "Buffalo All Star": I completely agree with your characterization of the current retail environment. The problem is not with the consumer, but with the retailer. No one today has the vision or the guts to create a new retail experience that makes a customer stop dead in its tracks. "Build it and they will come". Problem is that there isn't the economic wealth in Buffalo to draw such a creative and innovative approach. Don't think we'll ever see a Tory Burch or C. Wonder opening in our great city. If ass backwards government would get out of the way and stop chocking business with exorbitant taxation, you would see huge inflows of new businesses flocking to Buffalo which in tern would allow for six-figure incomes for their employees. And what do these employees do with their new found wealth.........SPEND IT!!! Why do you think Greenwich Ct has all the hedge funds??? It's not because those people like to hang out together. If Buffalo could get off the government dole mentality, you would see retail thrive and not in a mall environment!!

Here. Here. I couldn't agree more with this. As a side note, I love buying local but if local products cost more and are of poorer quality I go with better quality non-local products. I hate throw anybody under the bus, but for example I am not going to spend top dollar for crappy expensive local beers that cost more than unbelievable German or Belgium beer.

After reading this post I was suprised to learn that 5 Points was open on Sunday, I double checked online, yes, 9-3 on Sunday, just like they posted on BR. Got there at noon, from the Southtowns.....CLOSED! I just had to laugh.

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