City January 16, 2012 10:39 AM

Acropolis in need of supporters, not critics.

Acropolis in need of supporters, not critics.
Over the past year we have closely followed the transformation at Acropolis OPA on Elmwood Avenue.  The one-time diner has quickly become an upscale destination spot as both an eatery and as a chic Saturday night hang-out spot.  Owner Paul Tsouflidis has invested a great deal in the renovations that include a complete makeover of the downstairs space, façade and complete redo of the upstairs space.  By any measure the space is comfortable and classy. But now, some neighbors are organizing against the restaurant owner claiming that any expansion will inevitably lead to excessive noise and are seeking to prevent the near completed project from coming to fruition.

Throughout the renovations, you could frequently find Tsouflidis in the restaurant enthusiastically talking to anyone who would lend an ear about his space.  As a result of these conversations, he addressed the concerns that were brought to his attention.  Throughout the planning process with the City, however, he discovered that critics were organizing against him. "I am completely and utterly shocked at some of my neighbors. I had seven windows removed, put sound insulation into my walls, removed some speakers, kept my doors closed after 11 and required that any music be played through the restaurant's own sound system to enable us to keep the volume at an acceptable level."

"I love my neighborhood and would never do anything to jeopardize my standing in it. I grew up living on top of this restaurant since I was little and now some neighbors are making me look like I'm moving in to create trouble.  It's hurtful."  

While Buffalo Rising has seen far more people in favor of the expansion, what critics now seem to be misunderstanding is the music.  Acropolis is simply not a place for overly loud music.  It's a place where a DJ can play eclectic trendy music to cater to the bar.  People can still have conversations over the music.   This type of relaxed bistro lounge atmosphere with DJ is popular with young professionals and has been for some time.  Right now, though, the City of Buffalo is holding his music license, so he is prohibited from playing music until the Common Council decides what it is going to do on January 24th.

Tsouflidis is reaching out to his critics, calling for an open community meeting, followed by a tour of the new upstairs space where the entire community can come out and learn more about the project and have a dialogue about any concerns that they may have.  It will be critical for supporters of the expansion to also attend this meeting or contact Delaware District Common Council Member Michael LoCurto's office at mlocurto@city-buffalo.com to voice their support.  The meeting will be held on January19th at 6:00, in the Lafayette Ave. Presbyterian Church, downstairs in the loaves and fishes room.

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I wish people like this would expend their energy against the property owners who let their buildings rot rather than the good guys. Who are these people?

Score: 56 ( 68 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

totally agree STEEL....

replied to STEEL
Score: 17 ( 21 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I know one of them who is a honest person who shared an alternate viewpoint that, unless you were in their shoes would not appreciate. I don't want to name names because they have been getting harassed and attacked on many levels because they are not in favor of the expansion. Every action can have consequences which are not necessarily intended. While I don't personally think the expansion is bad it has caused serious disruptions to other people. This is normal, but the manner in which their concerns have been addressed is biggest complaint. Are they overly sensitive to noise? Is the harassment real? perhaps. perhaps not. I don't know, all I have is here-say but I will reserve my judgement as to what is the right way to move forward until I have a broader picture of what is going on.

replied to STEEL
Score: -17 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

To me it sounds like the restaurant owner has been more than reasonable here. Can you have your friend chime in? The "Unless you were in their shoes" argument is very weak.

replied to ToTheTable
Score: 17 ( 31 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I agree it's weak, especially since you have no idea of who's shoes you would be hypothetically putting on. I am just playing the devils advocate here since the article is one-sided, offering no input or perspective from the residents. Their are usually ways to solve the neighbors concerns if you really care. The Lexington Coop built a 20' concrete wall to protect their neighbors quality of life when they put in their parking lot.

replied to STEEL
Score: -11 ( 27 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The story describes extensive things done to appease neighbors concerns what more is being asked. I think it would be unfair for the neighbors to have unreasonable demands. What are they asking for?

replied to ToTheTable
Score: 10 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

What is weak is the fact that you are unable or unwilling to provide anything substantial as to what your issues are for this particular business.

You claim that the expansion has caused serious disruptions to other people. Yet you do not feel the need to list what those disruptions are. You claim the the manner in which their concerns have been addressed is biggest complaint. Yet you do not feel the need to outline that in any detail.

You pointed out a problem and solution for the Lexington Coop but are unwilling to do so hear. That makes your claims suspect.

What I find funny is the location of this particular situation. For noise to be an issue you would have to live either on Elmwood or Ashland in the heart of the strip. Just what do people think happens when you live next door to a vibrant entertainment district?

While you say "Every action can have consequences which are not necessarily intended"....I suggest you think about that.

Action = Living Near The Elmwood Strip
Consequences = Dealing with issues that come with living near the Elmwood Strip.

replied to ToTheTable
Score: 27 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I'm one of "these people". I live in the neighborhood, but no so close I'd be bothered by excessive noise, if it occurred. My concern has been failure to follow city code and licensing requirements, and if those get resolved, then more power to him. I like the place, eat there once a month at least, but still, rules is rules: deviate at your peril.

Score: -2 ( 30 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

They have not followed any codes or procedures for licensing? Wow!

replied to Joe E.V.
Score: 5 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

What code violations, or licensing requirements have they failed to follow? If you have a valid argument let it be known. I know Acropolis had to follow very tight requirements before the city would let them add to the front of their store. Last time I heard all the code requirements were followed which allowed them to move forward with construction. If your argument is valid let it be judged in the court of public opinion. I feel it's very cowardice to hide behind the scenes. If you're organizing an effort to stop the expansion, be proud of your cause and bring it to the light of the public and let them decide if you are in the right/wrong.

replied to Joe E.V.
Score: 17 ( 21 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I call B.S.

Present your evidence of these alleged code violations and licensing requirements being skirted, or fold your tent and leave.

replied to Joe E.V.
Score: 4 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

It's called a "stop work" order, issued by the City.

replied to osirisascending
Score: -1 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Still doesn't smell right. After the delay Paul had to deal with during his facade renovation (a couple of months, wasn't it?), I would be more inclined to believe he has all his ducks in a row.

replied to Joe E.V.
Score: 3 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The city enforces a "music license"? What does this license prohibit?

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Well, obviously not bad taste. Otherwise half the clubs in Buffalo would be out.

replied to Wolffman
Score: 19 ( 23 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The owner of Acropolis completely deserves, once paperwork is in place, to be able to move forward with his investments and have the tasteful, late-night venue he is planning.

Cozumel, Blue Monk (before that was Merlin's), Cecilia's, Sole, Cole's, Goodbar...all places along Elmwood which have outdoor patios, live music or sound systems, and/or lots of windows to open...

With all of those lovely establishments...was this sparked by a personal vendetta? That's what I have heard on the flip-side of this story.

If you can't handle a tasteful night-life in the EV, then move. You live in the city!!!

***I do agree that there is an awful lot of complaining being done about a property owner who has put quite a bit of money into renovating his restaurant and there are A LOT of properties in the EV neighborhoods which need serious attention. That would bother me much more than this Acroplis issue.

Score: 26 ( 34 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

mrnowak there would be no tasteful night life on Elmwood if there wasn't tasteful people in it's supporting neighborhoods. Something to think about. Let the neighbors, businesses, and city work this problem out. It is unwise to vilify one party of the other since both are looking out for their best interests or protecting their assets.

Also I am really confused why people assume that when someone lives in a city they must be used to being bombarded with noise pollution. Why is this?

replied to mrnowak
Score: -3 ( 29 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

It's a place where a DJ can play eclectic trendy music to cater to the bar. People can still have conversations over the music. This type of relaxed bistro lounge atmosphere with DJ is popular with young professionals and has been for some time. Right now, though, the City of Buffalo is holding his music license, so he is prohibited from playing music"

No personal offense to the neighbors... but when I read about neighbor concerns like these I have to roll my eyes and think to myself "Buffalo needs to step into the 90's"

If a restaurant on a commercial strip in one of the hippest parts of town isn't allow to even play some trendy mood music then how can we expect any growth around here? Our commercial streets are not meant to be treated like 5-year-olds that are told to play quietly and be put to bed by 8 o'clock.

Score: 25 ( 33 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Relax and let the guy run his place. If it turns out to be overly loud, which I really don't believe it will, then contact the city through the 311 line.

Score: 25 ( 25 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

The 311 line does not work nor does 911 non-emergency. Living in a "trendy" neighborhood I understand concerns but as long as a business goes through the proper channels there should be no reason to complain.

That being said...the city doesn't look into the logistics or support these expansions. Parking and police presence stays at prior levels. Neighborhoods get packed with patron's cars and we have to put up with the added noise, litter and vandalism.

One restaurant/bar by me has expanded 3 times. His garbage on the sidewalk is an eyesore. They wash their rubber mats on the sidewalk with a chemical that smells and the white liquid lingers for hours between the curb and street. On a "good" Saturday night the noise from the patio smokers wakes me up at 3:00 AM. And I live 300 feet from the bar!

If I was a property owner near the Acropolis I would be concerned that all city laws are followed. I would be more worried about the city than the business owner. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention here.

replied to LI2Northpark
Score: -4 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Well then I have some advice for you, don't live on a block with restaurants and bars. They tend to attract activity that goes on in.... you guessed it, restaurants and bars. I live half a block from Hertel and deal with problems that restaurants attract such as smelly garbage on the street on Wednesdays and more than a few hungry rodents. I knew about it before I bought my house and that's the way it is. The benefits of living so close to eateries, bars and shopping outweighs the negatives. You need to think about why you live where you live and if it's for you. Also, the 311 line works very well. I've reported several property owners for different reasons and noticed that the problems were fixed sooner rather than later. Whether or not it was a result of my call I don't know, but it sure didn't hurt.

replied to Allentwnguy
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I didn’t mention smelly garbage. I wouldn’t have a problem with “smelly garbage… on Wednesdays”. The garbage used to be kept in a garage and put out on Wednesday. During the second expansion the garage was turned into a second bar space and the garbage moved to the sidewalk. Between the 5 totes and the piles of produce boxes from the restaurant it’s an eyesore that wasn’t there when I purchased my home. This owner has also been able to change the appearance of the exterior of this building without going through the preservation board, changing the garage door to a wall, changing a wooden panel door to a metal one, changing wooden windows to vinyl. I don’t mind rules but let’s all play by the same ones.
Actually there was only one bar this particular one didn’t even exist. Now there are 5. When I purchased I did due diligence and sat in the neighborhood on weekends to see what noise levels were like etc., if it was like it is now I would have bought in another neighborhood living close enough to amenities but far enough from the noise. Writing several 311 complaints has done nothing, in fact they disappear. When I go to look at the follows up they are gone. The problems persist.
And finally, I know, I am preparing my house for sale because of the changes to this neighborhood. I am tired of bar patrons pissing in my yard and driveway, throwing garbage in my yard and vandalizing my property.

replied to LI2Northpark
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Let us know when it goes on the market, sounds like a great location!

replied to Allentwnguy
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Contact me. I'm returning to Buffalo for good in six months. I will gladly make an offer on your house. Queenseyes can give you my e-mail address.

replied to Allentwnguy
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I have been one of the people patronizing the new acropolis my car will be back to take up your parking space. I will also be drinking and smoking outside to my hearts content. Acropolis, flying bison and reservation Seneca's, thank you.

replied to Allentwnguy
Score: -2 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

- "That being said...the city doesn't look into the logistics or support these expansions. Parking and police presence stays at prior levels. Neighborhoods get packed with patron's cars and we have to put up with the added noise, litter and vandalism".

You dont own the streets. Anyone can park anywhere (in a legal manner)on a public street. If its a problem to you, buy or rent a damn house with a driveway.

replied to Allentwnguy
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None of this makes sense to me...You have Ceclias right next door, Blu Monk across the street. I live very close and love the fact that a breakfast joint will now be attracting a younger crowd and changing the landscape of Elmwood in a good way. Acropolis looks amazing and Elmwood village is trying to attract this exact type of investment. The changes being made are making this block a perfect place to live, eat, walk, and enjoy....

Score: 18 ( 22 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Move down to Black Rock, we welcome new business(and residents) and go out of our way to make you feel at home. We tolerate a little disruption, a little noise as the cost of having a vibrant community. You can't have it both ways, if you desire the city lifestyle then expect some occasional inconvenience. the alternative is to move to a bedroom community and quietly rust away. :)

Score: 19 ( 27 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Actually, you can have it both ways. I think it's unfair to polarize this into a simple cartoon of urban vs. suburban sensibilities. And describing people who live outside the city as "rusting away" is sophomoric.

I live in the middle of the city, in the "vibrant" part of Elmwood, and while it may be "vibrant" it's often filthy. I don't think it has to be that way. I don't know the complete story on this particular expansion, but it's reasonable and civic to see all sides of the issue and to balance the needs of business with the livability of the neighborhood. Commercial and residential mix closely in the Elmwood area, and we can combine a healthy urban street life with respect for the daily cycles of people who live there.

replied to Black Rock Lifer
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I disagree, living in the heart of a commercial district a person should expect as I noted "occasional inconvenience". I am not saying they should tolerate all and any assaults on their quality of life, just that they must accept a certain level of activity.

I live on a bus route, between two churches and across the street from a neighborhood store. My home looks out at a neighborhood playground and to the east a rail corridor. All these contribute to a rather busy, sometimes noisy, and at times disruptive environment. There are advantages and disadvantages to living in such an environment, I accept these issues as part of the reality of living here.

As for "rusting away", it was tongue in cheek, aimed at those that complain incessantly about city life. I pointed out an alternative for those folks and did not broad brush all those that live outside the city.

I think this story might be more about a grudge, the details are vague and we need more information to make a judgement.

replied to EricOak
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I can't help but think the underlying theme with all the NIMBYism in this area( this, the expansion of the metrorail above ground in Amherst and Tonawanda, the proposed mixed use outdoor shopping center on a former shooting range plot in an area in Amherst that is probably the least sprawl-like location to develop, East Aurora and it's fire hall, Lewiston and it's $2 million dollar sports complex that is now dead, and so on) is that the overall population is much older than most regions in the country.
I hate to stereotype or discriminate, but most of the time, older people (65 years +) are really the most vocal in this area with a lot of these types of projects and usually it's based on things that most younger people can care less about like: noise, foot traffic, etc.

I think if the region can maintain it's younger population or attract new people with business, then the outdated and unreasonable objections to development will not make such a big impact.

Score: 4 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

1) surely a bar/restaurant is governed by the same noise ordinances that the rest of us must abide by and

2) a little soundproofing goes a long way

just curious if this is the same neighbor who almost singlehandedly stopped some californians from opening a sushi place in the house on auburn next to the wilson farms a few years back.

Score: 9 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I think you're onto something...

replied to grad94
Score: 9 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I bet that's exactly who it is... The EV's very own narcissistic little Voldemort.

replied to grad94
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TELL ME AGAIN?!...why its a good idea to open, or expand an existing business in Buffalo?...Really..is it worth all the criticisms, aggravation, ass kissing... and this is just to the neighbors...on a commercial STREET yet! Then...start all over again in CITY HALL!!

Score: 12 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Where exactly is the residential units effected by noise? This place is surrounded more by other restaurants and bars doing the same thing than residences. Still however, I'd like to hear the complaints / issues right from the horses mouth.

I too agree that "noise" is part of city life, I have to deal with Chippewa booty bass and Puerto Rican salsa beats every day almost. It's part of the deal I signed up for though. Elmwood Village is no different in my opinion. Besides, we're talking about music, not jack hammers, sirens or other obtrusive sounds.

Score: 10 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Did the Mayor not get his bribe $$$ from this business?

Score: 9 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I remember a town hall meeting in the Church across the street several years ago to attempt to stop Satrbucks from moving on the street. And of course how can we forget the hotel/commercial developementr on the corner of Forest that got killed. Good grief!

Score: 6 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

A lot of talk by people only responding to Newell's one-sided argument. You think Newell's point of view represents all of what has happened? You have no idea. I don't have the time to discuss every issue about the proposed expansion but unfortunately Paul has gone ahead to change the property from a popular restaurant to a completely different business without seeking proper permits and licenses. What did he expect?

Newell - do your research first before you write.

If people want the full story, come to the meeting Thursday.

Score: -2 ( 26 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Well just give us a few highlights from your insight

replied to Daniel Sack
Score: 5 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I've noticed that a couple of people have popped in here, said things like "do your research", yet haven't given us this apparently "classified" information...

Present your evidence of wrongdoing, otherwise all you're doing is blowing smoke up our collective butts.

replied to Daniel Sack
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I hope that all sides can come to an agreement that doesn't hurt the business. Haven't gone inside yet but just from going past and seeing pictures it looks promising it would be a shame for his hard work and money to go to waste. I understand that people don't want loud noise 24/7 living in the city or not but at the same time you can't complain about every little noise. I get woken up when the garbage gets picked up from the grocery store across the street at like 330 am but I'm not going to call the city about it. I knew moving in that there might be some extra noise given the location and after 3 years there's nothing excessive to complain about.

Score: 0 ( 2 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Daniel, Perhaps your number one priority should be organizing against landlords in EV that charge far above market value for key retail space on Elmwood. There are at least a dozen spaces empty, which are far more detrimental to Elmwood than Paul's new business plan. This would be my focus rather than organizing against a guy trying reinvent his business. If you are too busy to share the details on this forum, than don't expect much support for your opposition.

Score: 12 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

In support of Daniel's comment, and in response to roryallenSD60:
Music without a music license, a seasonal patio that was supposed to come down Nowember 1, an entire 2nd floor renovation without even applying for the required building permits (they were applied for 2 weeks ago), no less than 2 stop-work orders for non-compliance, just for openers. This is a RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD first, zoned for mixed use with very specific restictions on the type of businesses allowed, and how they will be built. Read the city charter. Excessive rents? Do you own property in Elmwood Village? Are you aware of the property taxes on the homes here? If you want to live in what has been a very upscale and thriving area of Buffalo, it will cost you. Sorry, but there are far more residences than businesses in Elmwood Village, as the restricted use zoning clearly defines. Please come to the meeting Wednesday at 6pm. Your voice can be heard, and I will listen to what you have to say.

Score: -4 ( 26 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I can't believe that people living in an urban neighborhood don't understand what makes the neighborhood so desirable and viable.

How the same people can continually hold Elmwood back is unbelievable.

replied to Charles Stiffler
Score: 6 ( 14 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Bars are not what makes an area "desirable and viable". They're finally figuring that out on Chippewa.

replied to sea
Score: -4 ( 18 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Okay, 3 complaints from Charles, some of which reasonably point out additional fees & permits Acropolis might owe, maybe inspections that should be done, but none of which seem even close to justifying not allowing it to expand or have music. If there were bigger complaints than these 3, why wouldn't those be listed instead?

The city's noise laws should be enforced based on decibels at some distance, not proactively by refusing music licenses. If they break the law, they should have to pay fines and maybe have license revoked if repeated - but it might never happen.

1. charles>"Music without a music license,"

QE's article says they applied for license, Council is considering. What's any reason to not let them have it the same as other businesses do on Elmwood, Hertel, etc?

2. charles>"seasonal patio that was supposed to come down November 1"

The patio complaint makes me question the good faith of the complainers. Sounds like nitpicking about a date that should have flexible enforcement. Why not allow people to enjoy patios during Nov if unusually warm as last one was, even hitting 70 degrees? Sorry for all caps, but it's how the weather.gov page for Buffalo says this: "NOVEMBER 2011 FEATURED ABOVE AVERAGE TEMPERATURES AND A LACK OF SNOW IN BUFFALO. THE WARM AND TRANQUIL WEATHER WAS VERY CONSISTENT... RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE WAS SET ON THE 8TH OF THE MONTH AT 70 DEGREES"

3. charles> "an entire 2nd floor renovation without even applying for the required building permits, no less than 2 stop-work orders for non-compliance"

If there's fines/penalties for not getting permits, they should have to pay. But if nothing they built is illegal other than permitting, why not let them use what they built?
You guys bring up zoning laws, but has anything they built violated zoning?

replied to Charles Stiffler
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Someone didn't tell Panos, Goodbar, Talking Leaves,Coffee Culture that 11/1 is the patio take down day.

replied to whatever
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Your property taxes are pretty darn low.

replied to Charles Stiffler
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I own a home pretty close to here and eat here a lot. I walk by daily. The renovations look great. I look forward to trying the place for drinks. I welcome another neighborhood type bar close to my house. I have walked by at night and have noticed no increase in noise or issues with parking or with people hanging out outside. This is a positive for the neighborhood. If they did not bribe the right people, I mean get the correct permits, then that is an issue. But any complaint other than lack of following the process is rediculous in my opinion.

Score: 11 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I live in the EV and own rental property here as well since credentials seems to be a bit of an issue with this post. While I can appreciate valid concerns for a project like this, I still haven't heard them. For the people who don't have the time in their schedule to attend the meeting, it would be great if the people who claim to be "in the know" and opposed to this could enlighten us. While the EV is a residential neighborhood, it's main attraction that makes taxes so high, homes so expensive, but also so livable is Elmwood Avenue and its COMMERCIAL PREDOMINANCE. The EV is residential but Elmwood Avenue is and should be undeniably COMMERCIAL. So please come on already. Opposition to this stinks of NIMBYism. If the guy has gone about it the wrong way and is an A-hole, so what. If you want him to follow the procedures just so you have a chance to object, please move. And Daniel, if there are real valid concerns, let's hear them. I have little doubt that if you wanted to write a valid counter piece to Newell's piece that he would publish it.

Score: 8 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

the taxes arent high

replied to Ozro
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I personally am always baffled by how much influence people feel they have "around" their property. I own my house, I expect a reasonable level of protection from say crime, pollution, other environmental hazards. Outside of that I really don't feel like I have much say. The purpose of owning property is to do what you see fit with it.

My favorite is traffic on a road. If that road was built just for YOU, you should have had to personally pay for it. That is called a driveway and you can restrict access to that.

Cases such as this one are especially baffling, clear progress and investment in the community. Sometime when I walk or drive around I look at the house on forest and Elmwood and think about the hotel that might have been there, or the Condo tower on gates circle. Progress thwarted by a few, I doubt those peoples lives would have been drastically different one way or another.

Score: 4 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

By writing a one-sided article, one can guarantee a stream of comments and complaints. Pretty simple formula that works every time. And there's the click rate thing...

Score: 9 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

I raise an eyebrow at anyone who moves into the heart of a vibrant city neighborhood, right on top of a popular strip of bars, restaurants, and shops, then has the audacity to complain about noise.

Score: 10 ( 16 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Given the information presented here, I support what Acropolis is trying to do and think that it will be good for the EV - HOWEVER - that doesn't mean that codes, rules, permits, procedures, shouldn't apply. If the information presented by Charles Stiffler (above) is corrent, then it certainly appears that all procedures have not been followed.

Where were all the complainers about people stopping progress when this happened?

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/12/500-elmwood-gets-a-new-face.html#SlideFrame_0

You can't have it both ways people.

Score: 3 ( 5 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

No one was denying the owner of 500 Elmwood's right to a horrible remodeling, they were just questioning the aesthetics. And yes, it is still ugly.

replied to WhatRUSmoking
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Then I guess you are disappointed to know that they too appear to have been issued a "stop work" order?

replied to LI2Northpark
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Why was a "Stop Work" order issued? If they are in violation of a building code then, no I'm not disappointed. If the owner didn't violate any ordinances then he should be able to remodel as he/she sees fit.

replied to WhatRUSmoking
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Sorry I don't have much time to respond. Newell is the reporter here and should have taken the time to see the whole picture. I'll try answering a few questions here.

"osirascending"
"I raise an eyebrow at anyone who moves into the heart of a vibrant city neighborhood, right on top of a popular strip of bars, restaurants, and shops, then has the audacity to complain about noise."

What about the people who lived in this relatively quiet neighborhood for decades and then a restaurant became a noisy bar?

"sobuffalobillsfan"
"The purpose of owning property is to do what you see fit with it."

Not really. Buffalo and many municipalites have zoning laws. We don't have to, but we do. A property owner cannot do whatever they want. Buffalo zoning laws are easily accessible online.

"Ozro" - Elmwood is both commercial and residential. Even Elmwood Avenue. Residents have, by far, the larger investment. The residents drive the need for commerce, and businesses are welcome to open up. You can see from the aerial views online how many Elmwood buildings morphed from residential to commercial. I wish I had time to write for Newell - it is not my work. Why can't Newell do his research?

I agree with many of you that renovations to Acropolis are very nicely done. I really like the sign. The interior is also very nice. But some of the work was done without permits. Noise? I guess I have passed by at different times than some of you.

"roryallenSD60" I agree. I'm not with EVA but I know they have tried to do what they can. It is difficult to force a landlord to take less rent. Would we want such laws?

Score: 8 ( 12 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Your response to me makes no sense whatsoever... You imply that that block of Elmwood has been "quiet" for "decades"...

Having lived in Buffalo for decades myself, I am struggling to remember a time when the EV hasn't been densely populated... which would seem to be a bit of a requirement for the pastoral silence you seem to be claiming once existed, but no longer does.

replied to Daniel Sack
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i was going to write a comment but im afraid of offending some of my friends!! im for the restraunt, leave it at that. dont live on a commercial strip if you dont like it

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I currently live in San Diego - unarguably a more progressive city - and I'm positive that this situation would never happen here. Personally, I find it to be a no-brainer to reside somewhere away from bustling streets/areas if you're trying to live a life of quiescence. I've even made a noise-related move myself in the last 6 months - would I blame it on the businesses? Absolutely not. Members of the community should instead welcome innovative ideas (and thinkers like Paul) to keep Buffalo an area of interest, especially to young people - who akin to myself - are leaving at a staggering rate (more people lived there in the year 1900 than do now!)

Ergo, let the city prosper in the ways that it can -- by attracting more people to the restaurant by rennovating, surrounding businesses and communities, too, can benefit.

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I'm surprised people don't better understand the neighborhood. Yes, Elmwood is a commercial strip WITH residents too. AND adjacent to the back yards of the commercial/residential buildings on Elmwood are one and two family homes with residents who do not live on a commercial strip. These people have coexisted for decades with a restaurant where the Acropolis is; without issue.

BUT the owner has changed the restaurant. Should people move away because the restaurant is changing to a louder venue than it used to be?

True - the population of the City and County is declining, but there is such a shortage of real estate near Elmwood that the value of property west of Richmond is escalating. The restrictions that Elmwood residents have fought so hard to protect over the years must be helping.

It could be that residents will welcome Paul's nicely remodeled restaurant and maybe an expansion in the future if he proves he can run a place that is compatible with the neighborhood.

Newell - you didn't know about the Common Council hearing today?

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It's not that we don't understand the neighborhood, Daniel -- the way I like to think about it is as follows: I currently live next to Scripps Mercy Hospital, the largest hospital in Southern California. I knowingly moved into the area, aware of the presence of sirens and ambulances at all hours of the night (similar to the co-existence of restaurants and residents in EV). Scripps is planning on expanding significantly over the course of the next 5 years -- now should I complain about the construction noise, extra sirens due to bed increase, increase in traffic/commotion, or should I weigh the pros and cons, logically favoring the prosper of a business and advantage that the hospital will provide to the community?

...and how does Acropolis benefit the Buffalo community?
They're made it tradition to work with the Buffalo City Mission each year to hold a clothing drive, which collected 3,600 lbs of clothing last year and they support and recognize other great businesses in Buffalo like Guercio & Sons (where Acropolis gets their produce) and Sophia's!

replied to Daniel Sack
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"I'm surprised people don't better understand the neighborhood."

Did you REALLY mean that?

Or were you trying to be funny? (In which case you've failed miserably)

I am flabbergasted by the level of arrogance required for you to type those words HERE. That little blurb from you has rocketed to the top of the list as the single most patronizing/narcissistic/ignorant sentence typed in the history of BRO.

Where do you live? I want to buy the house next door to you, so you can teach me how to "better understand the neighborhood".

replied to Daniel Sack
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"Ash" If you moved into a noisy neighborhood I agree, you have no right to complain. The long-time residents near Acropolis have been living in a quiet neighborhood, until Acropolis became noisy. Get it? It is Acropolis that changed its format, not the neighbors who moved after Acropolis changed.

There are many ways every business benefits the community, I'm glad to hear that Acropolis does such wonderful things. I'm sure Paul can figure out how to make a successful business where he is without disturbing his neighbors. He has many good ideas.

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Did Acropolis actually become noisy? Noisier than Cecelia's? From what I've heard myself the couple of nights I've been there and from what I've heard from others, it hasn't. Also, buying a house with a commercial strip in your backtard isn't much different than buying a house on a commercial strip. It's a nice place. Get over it.

replied to Daniel Sack
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"Daniel" - I wasn't drawing the analogy of moving into a noisy neighborhood that got noisier; I was pointing out that I moved into an area well aware of the fact that it had the potential to be noisy because of the location of the surrounding businesses (including the hospital), as did the current residents of EV.

I think you missed the main point - I find it a little silly for 80 people to complain about a renovation/expansion that could benefit so many more. It seems that this is simply a Bandwagon Effect that demonstrates that some people in Buffalo would rather slow any progress to better the city. It also simultaneously makes it very clear why Buffalo is in it's current predicament.

"Without change, nothing changes" - hopefully that isn't the case for Buffalo's future. It starts with situations like these.

replied to Daniel Sack
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Once again, we are showing how backwards we are here in Buffalo. If you live on or around Elmwood Avenue, you have to expect the active life of restaurants, bars, music, etc. If you don't like it - move to a solely residential area. If Acropolis can't move forward on its plans, you better start getting on the other restaurants and bars along Elmwood Avenue: Coles, Cecelias, Blue Monk, Cozumel, etc. - in fact, you better get rid of the Elmwood Festival of the Arts as well. It's time for Buffalo residents to grow up and not get in a snit like what was done for the prospective hotel at Forest and Elmwood, the expansion of Delta Sonic on Main Street, etc. Grow up, Buffalo - life is passing you by as you quibble about such nonsense.

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What a bunch of single minded myopic views! As if Elmwood is so dependent on adding another restaurant/bar with djs, is there anyone in the city w/o djs now? I hear Bristol Manor is having DJ Old Man on Fridays. Or is there a sudden dearth of night spots in the city that I've not heard about? It's a private business so the guy can try to do anything he wants but most of you are acting like the entire EV infrastructure will come crashing down if his plans don't come to fruition. I don't want to side with some curmudgeon but seriously... I'm getting a real sense of what the BR readership is really like from this one article & it's not all that flattering. The best argument in favor of this is "hey, there's already a ton of bars with music all around Acropolis." Yeah, exactly.

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No one acted like Elmwood's success is based off of this one situation.

My comments are based out of the frustration that someone is trying to do something positive for the business and community, but it is being discounted by individuals who are upset with a given to any restaurant/bar - noise.

It's not just about the deejay; Acropolis isn't currently able to play ANY music.

And if there's such an uproar about this, what's next?

replied to jtrzewitcowski
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Channel Seven News showed a woman ( at 355 Ashland, according to City records) who cannot possibly hear anything from Acropolis, unless they are setting off bombs or she has super-human hearing. She and her fellow whiners reek of the same weird snobbish crap that forced a veterinarian away from Elmwood. (I refer to the Summer Street Cat Clinic). Yes, one can be a UB professor and still be an idiot.

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Ash - thank you for your so much more reasonable (than many) discourse here. You demonstrate how BRO can be useful. I have eaten, and/or had drinks at all but maybe 2 or 3 (Subway, new Greek place near Bird, ??) restaurants/bars on Elmwood. I think that there are around four dozen places you could eat on Elmwood. Only a few are noisy, and even fewer whose noise is annoying outside. You know well just how close people live to Acropolis. They are entitled to quiet at night. Even though they live on or near Elmwood.

Yes, currently Acropolis isn't allowed to play any music. This decision by the City is not arbitrary, but rather well-considered after receiving scores of complaints from residents. I have never heard, and City councilmembers say they have never heard, of so many complaints about any other place on Elmwood.

I understand that people may think this is unfair, but what makes Elmwood so vital is the mix of businesses and residents. It works so well, but sometimes there are issues to be worked out.

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To be considered good reason to deny a license, shouldn't complaints have to be judged objectively somehow? And weren't past complaints before the new soundproofing?

Instead of refusing a license before giving them a chance with new soundproofing, wouldn't it be more fair for Buffalo to just enforce its laws against too much noise online here, if and when they're broken - which maybe Acropolis won't break anyway?

The law defines a level of illegal loudness for which per day punishments can be $1500 plus jail time, as well as loss of business licenses. Jail won't happen of course, but a $1500 a day fine is a lot, plus loss of licenses… it's a lot of incentive to obey the law.

However, if anybody still feels it's too loud even if that limit isn't exceeded, then it would seem either the law should be changed for everyone, or perhaps it's just a risk of choosing to live so close to areas zoned commercial.

replied to Daniel Sack
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I agree: most one-sided article in a while. I know BR is supposed to be pro-growth no matter what the cost but that bar can get pretty foul, and its super loud at night. Whatever the owner claims he's done is just a claim. He's not there friday and saturday nights and his staff keep the decibels up. I dont care whether the bar stays open or not, but shame on BR for publishing a partisan claim unchallenged, uninvestigated.

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on a related note: neighbors are now objecting to the Livery Apartments as well.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/west-side/article714305.ece

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whatever - I agree that the new soundproofing could be tested objectively to be judged. The City does not have the capability to to this, who would hire an acoustical consultant? I actually know quite a bit about sound proofing, having worked in the sound industry for forty years. I can tell you simply by looking at the extensive glazing that the building envelope wouldn't be able to contain and SPL (sound pressure level) of much more that 40 dB SPL. Really good doors might have an STC of 55 dB. There is much more to it than that but a typical nightclub (or whatever it might be) will have a SPL upwards of 90 dB.

If the owner wants to show good faith he might begin by complying with city regulations he currently violates, such as leaving up his seasonal sidewalk cafe. I know - the City doesn't enforce these laws evenly; still, if the owner wants to regain support of the neighbors...

No one wants his restaurant shut down. It is a fine place to eat, it could be a fine place for entertainment. There simply are issues that need to be worked out - I'm sure it can be done.

Newell's one sided report was not a good start.

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Daniel>"such as leaving up his seasonal sidewalk cafe"

Was anybody truly inconvenienced by it? How so, and when?
Charles earlier complained about it being open past Nov 1, which to me sounds silly to demand be enforced when we had 70 degree temps a week into November.
Why not let people eat on a patio when they want?

Last I noticed, their patio has a few Christmas, uhh xmas, err no wait - holiday trees. Is that hurting anything? Do you want the trees taken down?
Seriously, I've no idea what your guys' complaint is about patio. A real problem or just a nit pick to criticize as part of trying to get music license denied?

replied to Daniel Sack
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Daniel>"The City does not have the capability to to this"

Shouldn't revenue from so many license holders' fees be enough for city to have a good sound meter to objectively enforce what city law says?
Are you saying Buffalo isn't equipped to enforce its own city charter (5 decibel limit, type of measurement device, etc)? What's your basis?

Or are city's laws not strict enough for what you want prohibited? From your comment it isn't clear.
By the way, for quick comparison NYC allows even louder music (7 decibels vs 5 allowed here) says pg 6 of http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/noise_code_guide.pdf
"Commercial establishments that play music must limit the level of unreasonable or disturbing noise that escapes into the streets or is heard in nearby residences by requiring that sounds levels may not exceed: 42 decibels as measured from inside nearby residences, AND
7 decibels over the ambient sound level, as measured on a street or public right-of-way 15 feet or more from the source, between 10:00 pm and 7:00 am ..."

Isn't not allowing a license way too extreme? Why not just enforce the law? If the city really isn't equipped, that should change.

Buffalo's law "293-5. Additional guidelines to determine unreasonable noise. [Amended 10-2-1990, effective 10-11-1990]
"The subject noise must exceed ambient noise by five decibels or more in any octave band to be declared excessive or unreasonable.
… 293-6. Methods of measurement.
Noise measurements shall be made with a sound-level meter and compatible octave band analyzer manufactured according to the specification of the American National Standards Institute, USA Standard Specification for General Purpose Sound Level Meters (S1.4-1971) and Preferred Center Frequencies for Acoustical Measurements (S1.6-1960)
… 293-7. Penalty for offenses.
...shall be punishable by a fine or penalty of not more than $1,500 or by imprisonment for not more than 15 days, or by both such fine and imprisonment, for each offense, … Each day that a violation continues shall be deemed a separate violation. ... a licensee who violates any provision of the Code shall be subject to a suspension or revocation of his license.
A Buffalo police officer who … observes a person in violation of the City's noise ordinance may make and arrest without a warrant … Alternatively, the arresting officer may issue and serve an appearance ticket …"

replied to Daniel Sack
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I look forward to hearing Paul's pitch tonight, which I hope for his sake will be a better performance than at City Hall this week. Getting caught in blatant mistruths does not engender warm, fuzzy feelings. I wonder why br hasn't written about that?

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This has become my favorite spot to eat on Elmwood..I hope they can work things out peacefully..I'm confused what and why neighbors are complaining? This business sits between retail spaces. Why everytime a restauant is sucessful and needs to expand this neighborhood explodes???? Is it the same folks??? Why doesn't someone go after Mr Rodger Chain who owns 48 properties that keeps raising the rents so none of it's owners can afford to stay there long...just saying!!!

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Big thanks to David Riveta for moderating tonight's meeting- and great job doing it. I didn't speak but I was struck by how many of the applicant's friends and employees just didn't get it. The issues aren't good food or what a swell guy Paul is, but the neighbors' right to quiet enjoyment of their homes. Overwhelmingly, I heard neighbors eloquently state how they approached the applicant regarding noise only to be rebuffed. In my opinion, that, along with his consistent inability to secure necessary permits, should result in denying his requests.

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I believe its not the noise from the music itself but the noise from the small (but loud) groups of patrons that parade out into the neighborhoods at 4:00 AM after a night of partying. It's annoying and the argument that you shouldn't live in a neighborhood where this is possible is ridiculous. Why not compromise and shut the place down at 12:00 AM?

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"whatever" - you make some excellent points. Why can't the City enforce these rules? If the same zero tolerance for illegal parking existed for noise violations the City could employ trained professionals with calibrated equipment.

Parking Violations PROFITS over $3 million a year (after wages, equipment...) from catching parking violators. Noise, too, could be a profit center. Why not?

Unshoveled sidewalks too. Ralph Wilson has no problem finding hundreds of temp workers to shovel snow before a game. The City could collect fines, employ people, and make money! The downside would be cleared sidewalks and fewer lawyers collecting fees for injuries.

Also, perhaps if the people who live in the city and don't like noise could move away and enhance suburban sprawl.

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Daniel, while I commend your praise of my excellent points, I don't agree that the city should use a revenue-maximizing approach for how laws are written or enforced. Goals should be common sense and good faith consistency/fairness.

About parking ticket example you raised -
alternate side parking is a necessary concept (and needs reasonable ticketing enforcement for snow plowing, etc), but there's no good reason for the city to implement like does for some streets by demanding residents without driveways have to repeatedly drop everything move their cars at "exactly" one moment on the clock (moving a half hour before the arbitrary time gets a ticket on one side, or moving a half hour afterward gets you a ticket on the other).
That inflexibility without a reasonable either-side-legal interval is needlessly hostile to residents. It does more harm than good, as does their overtime ticketing on federal-state-local holidays when so many people are home from work who usually aren't.
I agree with you the city's main motive seems to be revenue, but disagree about that being good. Another of my excellent points in a previous thread was some of Buffalo's overly aggressive parking ticketing would be like speeding tickets for driving 3 mph over the limit. Short term revenue building - yes, fair or smart - no.

Back on Acropolis topic -
I notice your reply offers nothing to back your claim that the city isn't equipped to enforce the 5 decibel limit I quoted in it's current law (we should take just your word about that? why?), and you didn't offer any reason to presume Acropolis would violate that limit (or if that's really even the issue), and you didn't answer my question about what's the real problem with the Acropolis patio which you and Charles complained about but won't explain what's the problem. Interesting.

replied to Daniel Sack
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Daniel, while I commend your praise of my excellent points, I don't agree that the city should use a revenue-maximizing approach for how laws are written or enforced. Goals should be common sense and good faith consistency/fairness.

About parking ticket example you raised -
alternate side parking is a necessary concept (and needs reasonable ticketing enforcement for snow plowing, etc), but there's no good reason for the city to implement like does for some streets by demanding residents without driveways have to repeatedly drop everything move their cars at "exactly" one moment on the clock (moving a half hour before the arbitrary time gets a ticket on one side, or moving a half hour afterward gets you a ticket on the other).
That inflexibility without a reasonable either-side-legal interval is needlessly hostile to residents. It does more harm than good, as does their overtime ticketing on federal-state-local holidays when so many people are home from work who usually aren't.
I agree with you the city's main motive seems to be revenue, but disagree about that being good. Another of my excellent points in a previous thread was some of Buffalo's overly aggressive parking ticketing would be like speeding tickets for driving 3 mph over the limit. Short term revenue building - yes, fair or smart - no.

Back on Acropolis topic -
I notice your reply offers nothing to back your claim that the city isn't equipped to enforce the 5 decibel limit I quoted in it's current law (we should take just your word about that? why?), and you didn't offer any reason to presume Acropolis would violate that limit (or if that's really even the issue), and you didn't answer my question about what's the real problem with the Acropolis patio which you and Charles complained about but won't explain what's the problem. Interesting.

replied to Daniel Sack
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"whatever" I agree that some of the parking regulations are absurd, and seem to have been enacted and enforced only to collect revenue and create ill-will. Much reform is needed, many now illegal parking spaces need to be made legal. I noticed when visiting Chicago that they have signs that read approximately: "No parking after Midnight when there is 4 inches of snow or more". I guess 4 inches triggers snow plows. Why shouldn't cars park on Elmwood after midnight if there is no snow?

At the Common Council Legislation Committee hearing a councilmember asked Permits and Inspections if the City owned a Sound Pressure Level meter, P&I said no. City lawyer Tim Ball also responded mentioning 293-4.B "or during night hours in the commercial areas whereby the sound can be audibly heard more than 100 feet from the real property boundary line from which the noise emanates".

Not really as good as measuring equipment. How should the City pay for this equipment and people trained to use it? Honesty such equipment, especially modern equipment, is very easy to use. But in court a defense lawyer would be asking "officer, when were you last certified to operate this equipment? Are you a licensed P.E.? When was the equipment last calibrated?...."

I'm no expert in city finance. I know sometimes departments are funded from specific funds collected (like parking), and sometimes from general funds. I don't think it unreasonable to use music license fees and fines to enforce noise laws; why should people who don't own cars pay for enforcement of parking regulations?

Why do I think Acropolis might violate the noise ordinance? Because the volume I witnessed last year near Acropolis. I did not bring my B&K Sound Pressure Level meter to document the SPL but to my experienced (40 years as a sound professional) I believe they were in violation of the law.

Okay - that was then. Now? Paul's descriptions of 3 layers of plywood as sound proofing is interesting. No acoustical consultant would recommend plywood. First it doesn't have as much mass as drywall, and it is more costly! I worry that Paul thinks he can play music at the same deafening levels inside, but the plywood will contain it. Certainly closing the doors and windows will not - they have lousy STC ratings. Maybe Acropolis will turn down the music (if they get a license to play music), but past history may be an indicator of what would come. Or maybe not, but Acropolis first needs to gain the trust of the neighbors. Is that very unfair?

Playing the music at a lower level is a very effective way to keep the sound inside. Otherwise costly renovations would need to be made.

Sidewalk cafe. I don't know when the laws were written but I believe they should be enforced fairly and to all restaurants. If the laws seem inadequate or unreasonable they should be amended. Any citizen can work towards changing the charter. You can read the statutes online. Paul and others are in violation all winter. You need my evidence? I don't have the time and I don't know how lengthy comments can be here. You can look up the law and review the Common Council Proceedings, all available online. Compare the two and anyone can figure out the violations. Or you can "just take my word" about this, or not.

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"Sidewalk cafe"

Photo in article above shows it with holiday trees. Looks fine to me. I'd be surprised if most city residents would say there's any problem at all with it. What's it hurting?

Are you guys saying he should have to spend to remove the patio's concrete and those metal guard rails every November then add them back again every April? Why?

I think repeatedly complaining on here that there's something bad about it - without even saying plainly why it's a real problem - backfires on your side. Makes it seem like hunting for complaints about this business.

If the city law is so uptight that it really says a patio with holiday trees is illegal for example (I can only guess, since you won't say what the issue is) then yes maybe the law should be relaxed. Regardless, it seems nothing to do with the music issue unless it's just a try to smear him as a law breaker (which pretty much everybody is at times - what else, did he ever remove a mattress tag that says Do Not Remove?)

About music sound level -
that on the other hand, is a potentially serious issue, but I don't see how it's the Acropolis owner's fault if as you've claimed the city doesn't use any of the fees if gets from music licenses to buy (& train for, calibrate/etc) basic sound measuring equipment to objectively enforce the decibel limits it specifies in its own law.
I'll add a couple more thoughts about that in the newer thread about this....

replied to Daniel Sack
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