Can Buffalo attract just 1% of the Boomers?
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Leave a commentI don't think public transportation can be counted as one of Buffalo's assets. The NFTA website, alone, is abysmal.
Security is important. What we need is some kind of study comparing us on this level. Farmers insurance does this annually. Two years ago Buffalo was not on the top 20 list. Last year we were 19th. This year we are 6th.
Now its time to lobby for lower insurance rates :)
http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/secure_places_to_live_2011.aspx
"Secure Places to Live 2011
EIGHTH ANNUAL FARMERS INSURANCE STUDY RANKS THE
MOST SECURE PLACES TO LIVE IN THE U.S.
Pittsburgh rated country’s most secure large metropolitan area
LOS ANGELES — Farmers Insurance Group of Companies® annually ranks nearly 400 U.S. communities based on safety and security. In its Eighth Annual Most Secure Places to Live in the U.S. study, Farmers has rated Pittsburgh, Pa., as the most secure U.S. community among large metropolitan areas (population of 500,000 or greater).
The Kennewick–Richland–Pasco, Wash., area is the most secure mid-size U.S. city (population between 150,000 and 500,000), while Ithaca, N.Y., ranks as the most secure small town (population less than 150,000).
The rankings, compiled by Best Places expert Bert Sperling (www.bestplaces.net) took into consideration crime statistics, extreme weather, risk of natural disasters, housing depreciation, foreclosures, air quality, terrorist threats, environmental hazards, life expectancy, mortality rates from cancer and motor vehicle accidents, and job loss numbers in 379 U.S. municipalities. The study divided the communities into three groups: large metropolitan areas, mid-size cities and small towns."
How about offering residency to immigrants upon graduation of a four year college? I'd rather attract those that will have years of taxable income rather social security checks and the exorbitant costs of end of life care.
United States was build on the backs of immigrants it is time to stop being scared of our piece of the pie growing smaller and focus on growing the pie larger.
I'm with Bloomberg on this one, lets fill out vacant housed with people that want to be in this country and will invest their lives into building a better future for their families.
My parents just moved here from Long Island. They're doing the snowbird thing...live here from April/May to December, and a condo in Florida for the winter. They like Florida, but they love it in Buffalo.
Another important asset we have that's important to seniors is healthcare. My parents liked the healthcare options we have here; the expansion of the Medical Campus will only improve our healthcare resources.
just as important as attracting boomers (or anyone) from elsewhere is keeping the ones we have. we have a good number of retirees on public pensions. better we keep that money circulating locally rather than exporting it to florida or arizona.
Well if a baby boomer is planning on retiring we should make it imperative that they do not talk to a tax or financial planner when it comes to residency and taxation, especially if they have money.
Maybe we can create a NY State tax where the money goes to blocking boomers from communicating with these type of people?
Well if a baby boomer is planning on retiring we should make it imperative that they do not talk to a tax or financial planner when it comes to residency and taxation, especially if they have money.
Maybe we can create a NY State tax where the money goes to blocking boomers from communicating with these type of people?
Karl, if you don't like the way things are done, get investors together, hire some lobbyists, and go to Albany to advocate service gutting for fluffing the wealthy. There is nothing stopping you. Nothing.
If you guys are unsuccessful, maybe the region's redeeming qualities, mentioned by Rand and others commenting here, could be leveraged to offset the tax weakness. The issues of safety, environmental quality, and access to medicine, largely paid for with those high taxes, can be strong draws too.
Actually New York has relatively favorable taxation rules for retirees, especially those who have government pensions. New York is one of ten states that does not tax federal, state or local pensions. So if a retired schoolteacher living off of a pension stays in New York, they will not pay state income tax on it, but if they move to Arizona for example, then they'll be subject to Arizona's state income tax.
Great post, Randy (I like the concept ALMOST as much as making Buffalo a preservation/restoration capital. Wait, maybe the two are linked :))
I totally agree with the premise and, for this reason, feel the conversion of Millard Filmore to a senior-targeted facility makes a lot of sense. Who wants to go out to Canterberry (sp?) in Williamsville, when few are likely to visit and there is nowhere to walk? Moreover, Gates Circle is an amazing address-close to the AKAG, Burchfield, Elmwood, Forrest Lawn (though they might avoid that), etc.
I also agree that the local institutions should be thinking seriously about this group. Is there even a SCORE in Buffalo, so that they could get involved with mentoring young businesspeople?
Saratoga Springs has become a retirement center for seniors because it is walkable, charming, has a very active SCORE, and has cultural organizations/attractions. Buffalo could replicate this, and then some.
Finally, it cannot be overstated that many of the Sunbelt regions (from Phoenix to Boca) simply don't have the cultural depth or history of Buffalo and, accordingly. just aren't that interesting. Frankly, they are drop dead boring and synthetic.
In Buffalo, seniors can have golf AND museums. It's a win-win.
There was an article about this trend (seniors returning to Rust Belts) several years ago (maybe in the Times). Seems like it may be time for Buffalo to really crank on the marketing to that segment.
What a brilliant idea, cater to old people. What Buffalo should be doing is making it easier for young people to open small businesses. Talk to any one under forty thats tried to open a small business in the city, and they'll tell you what a nightmare city hall gave them, how uncooperative and un-suportive the local government was to their cause. If this city wants to rebuild itself and see a spark of 'rebirth' and growth, we don't need to pander to retiree's. We need to implement a system that makes it easy for the people already here to build. I'd rather have 20 somethings flocking here to build stores and shoppes than old people who aren't going to contribute anything to the city but a little fast cash, and medical bills. Rather than actually develop a streamlined governmental system that allows it's own residents to rebuild the city, your suggesting we pander to the rest of the countries aged residue for a quick financial fix? Buffalo doesn't need to 'attract' and answer to it's financial problems. It needs to look inward.
Retirees aren't all poor. Most are actually middle class, and we could do worse than than to repopulate the city with energetic, engaged and experienced people who will shop in our stores and populate our cultural institutions.
In fact, Philadelphia has put together just such a program several years ago to attract both seniors and gay. http://www.phillymag.com/articles/contrarian_wanted_grays_and_gays/
I also agree that we should target immigrants. I'm in favor of repopulating the city just about anyone except criminals.
I think the babyboomers have been the least cheerleading of Buffalo. They were the ones who moved and lived in suburbs. Multiple articles have been written about them aging in place.
You have to provide amenities they could not get within a short drive. I have noticed many boomers at the Erie Basin Marina. I wonder the possibility of additional residences there in conjunction with realigning Erie st.
Nice article and many thoughtful responses! Speaking as a boomer who recently retired, I think I am qualified to add to this topic.
I grew up in Buffalo until I was almost 16. My father got transferred to LA in the mid 60's just as the handwriting on the wall became more clear. Until then, the city was thriving and downtown was still vibrant. Much of my extended family remained there and my father eventually returned. My visits to the area were frequent over the subsequent years. I still have childhood friends after all the years that have lapsed. So, I had a back seat to the decline of WNY over these decades. But I find the new trends and developments in recent times to be nothing less than wonderous.
When I retired two years ago, I seriously considered moving back. I was about to inherit the house free and clear. But I chose to remain here in a famous desert resort that people in cold climates clamor to retire in.
I finally decided to stay for many reasons, but first and foremost were the winters. I can't deal with them due to some health limitations. Upper and lower are rented (one by a cousin) who looks after things. Yet the rents just barely cover the costs as the place is old and doesn't take the winters any better than I think I could.
Selling it is out of the question as 1)it isn't worth much and 2) I still might find a way to be a snowbird.
Champions of Buffalo (like the kind who frequent this site) seem to discount the winters as a serious factor. That is laudable as it is more than a fine place especially now. But speaking only for myself as someone who lived there and visited during winters in family emergencies, it is not for this boomer.
And the reason is just that. The winter! Perhaps that is more universal than some might think. Just IMHO, but worthy of the discussion here.
pegger, the winters you remember are, well, a thing of the past. i am about to hop on my bike to go to work because it is 40F and there is no snow on the ground. my roses are blooming in december. cafes still have their tables out on the street.
climate change has been dumping buffalo's winters on coastal cities like new york, boston, washington, and philadelphia. i'd say winter is now a full month shorter than it was when i was a kid.
That's not what we were saying this time last year. And there's a good chance not many will be saying that those tough winters are a thing of the past by the time April gets here this year.
Hey Pegger,
So, like you left Buffalo a half a century ago?
By the way, ask all of the retired people in Chicago about the Winter. The wind chill is often -30 degrees below zero. It's brutal and way worse than Buffalo. Believe me, not everyone there is clamoring to move to the warmer climates.
Few talk about the oppressive heat and sun, far unhealthier than cooler weather for older folks. Slather up that SPF 40 dude.
Yes. I did leave long ago...45 years. But I have visited annually at least once if not twice. I have a viable, well-maintained two per. Yes, I am an out of state landlord to relatives still there.
I am invested there to be sure and I don't mean only financially. I am in this with everyone else.
I am a retiree with assets and semmingly the ideal boomer to be attracted to return.
"By the way, ask all of the retired people in Chicago about the Winter. The wind chill is often -30 degrees below zero. It's brutal and way worse than Buffalo."
You must have graduated from the Randy Reade school of logic. Because, according to these stats Buffalo on average is colder and windier.
Average Temperature
High Low City
56 40 Buffalo
61 45 Chicago
Average annual wind speed of the windiest US cities
(in miles per hour and kilometres per hour)
Mph Kph City
11.8 19.0 Buffalo
10.3 16.6 Chicago
Maybe I'm just a winter person, but I don't see how snow is still considered a major deterrant.
The west coast has beautiful weather, interspersed with fires, mudslides and earthquakes. Texas (and actually the entire south) is constantly vascilating between floods, tornados, droughts and water shortages. The Midwest and Northeast either have worse winters than we do, or milder winters plus a variety of summertime natural disasters. Living in Florida or the Gulf is Russian roulette of hurricanes and tropical storms.
Buffalo has amazingly near-perfect summertimes which it never seems to advertise. And our winters are managed quite well (try seeing 3" of snow fall on DC and you'll appreciate how well we handle 1+'). In a world where any news can be 'spun' to the good or the bad, Buffalo rarely takes the opportunity to play up its meteorological assets.
You have to figure those with health issues. My father has diabetes and received a new kidney for it 3 years ago. He's not very active at all up here but when they stay in their retirement home in Florida he's like a new person. The gloomy cold weather does affect people whether or not you like it or not.
Unfortunately with age comes health issues and if you have them or know someone who does then you'll understand the importance of warm sunny days. Besides, how many times can you visit the Albright Knox?
From my perspective, I've seen just the opposite.
My parents were both in their late 70s when they left Buffalo for warmer climates. Mom with diabetes and Dad with a knee replacement, they were both exceptionally active and healthy in Buffalo.
Within 5 years of settling into a suburban Atlanta lifestyle, their health changed dramatically for the worse. They don't go outside because of the heat and humidity. They drive everywhere and get no exercise. The smog and ozone affect their breathing. Granted, they consider their new life to be one of 'leisure', but their lack of activity has weakened them considerably. Their circulation can't handle temperatures below 60 or above 80. They've become bound to their couches, cars and scooters.
I would have passed these changes off as simply part of getting older, but I have relatives still in Buffalo who are heartier in their 90s than my parents in their early 80s. I have an in-law who is 102 and still walks unassisted to the local store in North Buffalo, while Mom is 81 and needs a walker to get from the kitchen to the living room (less than 10 years ago, she was hiking down the Niagara gorge!)
It might be a random example of health or genetic oddities, but I tend to agree with my parents' doctors... when you stop using it, you start to lose it. Some older folks may very well flourish in warmer climates, but my parents definitely are the opposite example.
With myself approaching 40, I see some of those same things happening to me. I'm using my parents as a warning to myself of how NOT to adjust my lifestyle as I get older, so that I can still be an active old man when I get back north.
(oh, and as for how many times you can visit the Albright Knox... that was one of the must-do items on their itinerary when they visited home for a wedding last year. To date, they have only once set foot in any of Atlanta's museums and attend the theater here a couple times a year, as opposed to several times a month when they lived in Buffalo. They complain that Atlanta's main library is smaller than our branch library in Cheektowaga. They laugh that a city of 5 million has fewer cultural resources than the individual neighborhoods they grew up in. I have a feeling that ammenities like that are also to blame for their lack of activity since they moved.)
I suppose it's all a matter of relativity. My Grandmother on my mothers side lived to be 93 in Naples, Fl in near perfect health until she fell and consequently passed away. My grandfather on my dad's side lived to be 88 in Las Vegas and he drank and smoke everyday. I don't think either of them would have lasted that long here.
For my parents, they are more active when it's sunny and warm out and like you said, the moment they stop moving their health will decline. The Buffalo winters are too harsh for some people to stay active at all. It's not just physical activity but mental too, it can get downright depressing here in the winter for a lot of people.
As for the Albright Knox, my point is that a museum is not something most people go to daily, weekly or even monthly so although it's nice a couple times a year, it won't be enough to keep most people here all year long.
"Their circulation can't handle temperatures below 60 or above 80. They've become bound to their couches, cars and scooters."
All of those comments you made about relatives is all genetic and has nothing to do with warm weather. Plus, heat actually thins your blood, which makes it easier on your heart to pump, so that point has no validity either. My grandfather is 75 and has been under the knife a multitude of times for bypasses etc. His doctor told him that staying in a warmer climate year round will add years to his life, by taking the stress of his heart. Most times when people move and their life becomes sedentary it has less to do with the city and more to do with being familiar with your surroundings and having friends to keep you busy. So there's another point shot to shit.
When it snows in DC, it usually melts within a week because, unlike Buffalo, the sun actually shines on most days between November and May.
And yet, cities such as Boston, Chicago and NYC receive at least the same amounts of snow as Buffalo, and people have no problem living there.
There is nothing we can do about the weather in Buffalo. And for some people, that's a deal breaker. I admit that. However, for many people it is not. I'm not saying that we must attract 100% or none of them. I'm merely saying that we can attract a small percentage.
For those who must play golf in the desert every day, Phoenix is the place to retire. But not everyone likes that. And many people wish to take art classes at the Albright Knox every week, and they in fact do.
Great issue to discuss but there are some inherenet issues that need to be addressed as well. One if the idea of the dependency ratio, which is the percent of the population between 0-15 and 65+ compared to the percent 16-64. What you want to attract is more poeple in the 16-64 group as its the working age, taxpaying, weather producing, home buying and repairing, community active group. I'm not saying you don't want any retirees, but you don't want a veyr high proportion because they typically don't spend a lot of money because they're retired and are on limited incomes, which means they're less likely to invest in housing, make "disposible income purchases", have growing incomes, play major roles in the community, etc.
As for the snow, any argument by a current Buffalonian that snow is irrelevant is troublesome and shortsighted. Just because you MANAGE to deal with it doesn't mean other WANT to. There is a major leap in logic on the snow argument, and most pro-Buffalo arguments that things aren't "that bad," whether those things are crime, schools, snow, taxes, leadership, etc.
The problem with such arguments is they are put forth by people who are largely pro-city. Those people are put city living ahead of any inconvenience city living might have. However, the majority of the population, that doesn't put city living as the most important amentity, typically prefers low crime, off street parking, plowed roads, a yard, a good school district, etc.
When you don't have to live in the city and you can get to work anywhere in 20 minutes (save the anti-car rant, data shows that most EV dwellers drive a great deal to work and I know for a fact that parking is one of the biggest challenges in the EV), someone isn't going to choose what they consider a harder, less beneficial living arrangement.
The last thing I want to be doing at 65 is parking on the street, shoveling and walking to a second floor apartment or bedroom. So long as there are other options, retirees in large part won't choose that.
First, there are plenty of retirees who live in Toronto, Chicago, Boston and NYC. So weather isn't the real issue. Of course, if it is for you, then you are free to move to warmer climes.
However, it isn't a deal breaker for lots people. For them, we should make the city attractive.
Second, not all retirees are poor, as I have tried to point out. Many are middle class, and some are even rich. Many of disposible income. If the choice is between an empty city and a city that is half full of retirees, I'll go with the retirees any day.
We have been trying for the last 30 years to reverse the population decline in Buffalo, and no one has yet come up with a solution. If you don't like this solution, I hope that you have something better. Plus, you short charge old people. Just because you are 65 years old doesn't mean you are bedridden with dementia. Many people in this age bracket are quite vital, have money to spend and have a lot to contribute.
Seeing as how Buffalo already have many amenities that retirees desire, it is a small effort to market to them and bring them here. Philly understands this and already has a program to attract both seniors and gays. If you really believe the city will be worse off to attract perhaps 10,000 seniors in the next few years, or that we should close the door to retiring suburbanites from Clarence and Amherst and tell them they must move out of state, I would very much like to understand your logic.
"If you really believe the city will be worse off to attract perhaps 10,000 seniors in the next few years, or that we should close the door to retiring suburbanites from Clarence and Amherst and tell them they must move out of state, I would very much like to understand your logic."
Ahhh the typical STEEL esque "I'll put words in your mouth" turnaround argument. I don't think at any point in BuffaloFallings comment he said anything close to what you commented, or even hinted at it.
"And yet, cities such as Boston, Chicago and NYC receive at least the same amounts of snow as Buffalo, and people have no problem living there.
Really....?
City Inches of snow days of snow
Buffalo 94.7 61.8
Boston 43.8 22.4
Chicago 36.7 28.5
NYC 25.1 11.1
......hummmm it doesnt really look like Boston, Chicago, and NYC receive "at least" the same amount of snow as Buffalo. But, then again I wouldnt expect you to know how much snow Buffalo gets. Seeing that you dont even live in Buffalo.
"We have been trying for the last 30 years to reverse the population decline in Buffalo, and no one has yet come up with a solution."
......and yours isn't a good one either.
"Just because you are 65 years old doesn't mean you are bedridden with dementia. Many people in this age bracket are quite vital,"
I would like to see some statistics to back that up. Most 65 year olds I know are way less than "quite vital".
"Second, not all retirees are poor, as I have tried to point out. Many are middle class, and some are even rich. Many of disposible income."
Did you know that the average retirement income is only 29k dollars a year? And, do you think the "rich" retirees are coming to Buffalo to retire any time soon?
So with all your inaccuracies would you like to take another shot at writing a comment?
Not really. If you think this is such a bad idea, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I have no interest in getting into a mudslinging match with someone who clearly believes retirees are of so little value to our community that we can't be bothered to court even a single one of them.
rand>"with someone who clearly believes retirees are of so little value to our community that we can't be bothered to court even a single one of them."
"clearly"? How so? Notice burch used real quotes of you when disagreeing. Quite a contrast with your invented straw men.
Your claim about snowfall was especially wrong. For better or worse (depends on taste), Buffalo and Rochester both get much more snow on average than other U.S. metros of their size or greater. Also a lot more than Toronto. We can thank being off the eastern wind-facing side of huge Great Lake waters.
Some will love that much snow and some don't, but what's gained by pretending it isn't a lot more here?
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/snowiest-cities.php
Average annual snowfall for the snowiest large US cities:
Yearly Snowfall Inches
Rochester, New York 99.5
Buffalo, New York 94.7
Cleveland, Ohio 68.1
Salt Lake City, Utah 56.2
Minneapolis, Minnesota 54.0
Denver, Colorado 53.8
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 46.9
Boston, Massachusetts 43.8
Detroit, Michigan 42.7
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 41.9
Hartford, Connecticut 40.5
Chicago, Illinois 36.7
Providence, Rhode Island 33.8
Columbus, Ohio 27.5
Indianapolis, Indiana 25.9
New York, New York 25.1
Toronto: "average annual snowfall of about 133 cm (52 in)"
So even TO averages near what Minneapolis gets which is 40+ inches less per year than here and Roch.
Chicago, Boston, and NYC average even less than Minneapolis and TO.
burch points out this was wrong
rand>"Boston, Chicago and NYC receive at least the same amounts of snow as Buffalo"
… and instead of you just admitting a goof like we all make sometimes, you reply with another attack that looks made up too.
(Sorry if pointing out total b.s. makes anyone feel they're being prosecuted.)
The aging boomers should live in Buffalo/Niagara in the summer, then leave town when winter hits. I think we all know people who do this.
I'm not sure I'd focus as much on weather as some people in this discussion have been. Climate liabilities (perceived or real) are just one of several factors that make a region desirable. Local strengths that have already been mentioned here (culture, university, hospitals etc) factor into the overall appeal of a region every bit as much as the snow.
You don't see other growing regions in harsh climates like Texas, the Dakotas, and Alaska making excuses for their weather.
Falling> "The problem with such arguments is they are put forth by people who are largely pro-city."
Equally problematic are the the arguments trumpeting the region's shortcomings by those who are largely anti-city. Boogymen of city schools, city hall dysfunction, and wrongly depicting the city as unfit don't mean much to the general public who don't hold the same grudges.
Falling> "save the anti-car rant, data shows that most EV dwellers drive a great deal to work and I know for a fact that parking is one of the biggest challenges in the EV"
The "data" claim about drivers in the EV looks pretty weak. Parking is a challenge for those who drive but last I checked, the US Census showed tracts along Elmwood had a high percentage of alternative transit users relative to the region. That would indicate many people in the EV don't have to drive 20 min to work or esewhere.
Just for the record the winters in Buffalo are long, cold, icy and snowy. They are enjoyable until about the end of January then they continue to go on and on, ending somewhere in early May. Snowbirding is the way to go as you leverage tax opportunities elsewhere but live in Buffalo roughly May-November
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I like this story. It's interesting and well thought out. The only things I would change are the persistent, underlying theme of shock and surprise that Buffalo is a great place to live and, secondly, that winter is somehow bad. Buffalonians, and writers about Buffalo, seem to almost ALWAYS be shocked when somebody finds Buffalo great, winning, interesting beautiful or any other positive. Secondly who said winter is bad? Why must winter always be portrayed as bad? My idea of retirement is here in the Buff. But if I had to leave it would be to Maine or Vermont not Florida or the (ugh!) Carolinas. Please, for those of you in a position to write publicly about Buffalo, stop with the downtrodden, negative, defensive, shocked attitude about Buffalo. I have said this many times before, and I will say it again, it's REALLY time to start getting just a little smug about our city...in fact it's long overdue. And stop being so defensive please. Like the community's reaction to the hockey player who posted a picture outside his hotel room that was supposedly less than flattering! Who cares? I was recently in New York City and the view from many of the Hotel room windows was a wall of another building. But it's New York City, the Big Apple, so everything is good, even when it's not. See what I mean? Time to Smug-it-Up a bit Buffalonians. It's a way of supporting and promoting our city without seeming defensive. Other people and places are noticing: we just have to start believing it ourselves. It's overdue and we deserve it.