The Geography of Nowhere

Just found it on Amazon, I'll have to check it out. Thanks Steel.

STEEL is officially the Rush Limbaugh of Buffalo Rising.

Definitely one of the landmark urban development books of the past 20 years, with some pop culture appeal. Worth the read.

Oh boy, get the popcorn out, this ought to be good.

Steel, I am shocked that you had never read this book until now!

What I really like about Kunstler's writing is that he understands and appreciates the long view of history - that societies continually rise and fall over the centuries, that there are no guarantees of endless growth and prosperity, and that no matter how hard you might wish for something to be true, reality is indifferent to your wishes. Contrary to popular belief, just being Americans does not guarantee us a happy ending.

You know, the best way to get subdivision dwellers to change their opinion is to berate and belittle them. In fact, calling someone "brainwashed" is one of the best ways I know to get him or her to step back say "You know, you're right! I AM brainwashed!"

Explaining to people who prefer not to live on top of one another that they've just "subjugated everything" to their "motorized privacy capsule" is a great way to change their minds!

Telling everyone who prefers to live in the suburbs that they're "pro-Sprawl" while romanticizing the notion that we could all just live in mid-rise tenements in a city is a slick way to get people to jump on-board.

Pretending that "our culture" is doing it without respecting the idea that people might actually WANT to live without hearing the neighbors is an excellent way to show that you know what's going on.

Using scary words like "wasteful", "unsustainable", "alienating", "destructive", "vivid frightening", "fear and shun", "ugly banality"? Genius!

In theory, I agree with the sentiment that we should not encourage sprawl and shitty cheaply built subdivisions. But the demonization of everyone who doesn't subscribe to your newsletter is, frankly, stupid. You might try treating the people who live out here with a little respect and try to create incentives to get what you want accomplished instead of just bitching.

A sprawl posting. All is right with the world again.

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I read the book when if first came out and thought it overall very good. However, by then I had already drunk the koolaid, so he was just preaching to the choir. Also, I thought he was a little preachy and strident, so I didn't think that the book would get much traction.

I agree that if we are going to get people to understand the problems of sprawl we can't insult them or take a superior attitude. Rather, all we need to do is law down the facts -- the arguments make themselves.

ONe of the unfortunate accidents of history is that at least one or two generations have grown up in the suburbs, and so the suburbs is the norm to them. You live in the suburbs because that's where people live. The city is for the unmarried, students, the poor and urban blacks and hispanics. So of course if you are white and middle class, you live in the suburbs. These are assumptions that are very difficult to change. (Of course , these same middle class people go to Europe and even Canada and extol the virtues of their cities and complain why can't we have wonderful cities like that in America!)

Cities need to address the two basic reasons the middle class isn't willing to live in the city: crime and poor schools. Those are the basics. If you fail in either, they will remain resolutely in the suburbs.

My favorite Kunstler quotes:

"The Flint that Moore revisits is a slum partly self-made, full of people too busy watching $50-a-month cable television to paint their houses or even clean up their yards." James Kunstler

-and-

"Higher-education has become a government-based tuition debt racket which has now reached such a degree of awkwardness for the people who come out of it that it won't continue for much longer." James Kunstler

And that is why you should be happy you live in Buffalo, where the sprawl factor is minimal. Ever been to Dallas or Phoenix or dozens of other cities?

It's human nature for most couples with little kids to want a house with a yard in a good school district. No matter how much you beat them over the head with this anti-sprawl stuff, they do not want a condo in the city (of course NYC is an exception, but who can afford it)?

As of today, it is not a crime to build a new house in Clarence. Down the road, who knows?

As seen in picture Dick rd.and George Urban. You can also add Main street, Transit road. Union road… All of it a pedestrian hell. I would want to hide in myself centered world if I lived there. We can also add Wheatfield to the mess. http://buffalo.craigslist.org/reb/2560431861.html $88 sq. ft. McMansion it does not even look 20 years old. How long before these places are turned into multifamily units.

If people hate suburanites so bad then why do you want them to move in next door to you in the city?

Ironically it's my motorized privacy capsule that allows me to buy building materials for my house and carry them home. I don't think I can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood on the bus, though I have never tried.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I need my job in the 'burbs and a car to keep my urban lifestyle in tact.

It's not about city versus suburbs, Buffalo versus Amherst. It's about a traditional, compact, mixed-use, human-scaled and ultimately sustainable form of development, designed around people, versus a low-density, wasteful, and unsustainable form of development designed around motor vehicles.

There's vehicle-oriented sprawl in the Buffalo city limits. There's compact, walkable mixed-use neighborhoods in Buffalo's suburbs. The city line is part of an ecotone in the built environment, not some sharp dividing line with two-flats and corner stores on one side and tract homes and plazas on the other.

Once again the pro sprawl crowd comes on carping about how we are not supposed to be saying bad things about suburbanites. Of course my story says nothing about the suburbs or sububanites. You would need to read it to know that. Likely they won't read the Kunstler book either. Sprawl has nothing to do with good schools. It has nothing to do with crime. As for carting plywood spawl has nothing to do with getting such things to your house. Sprawl is an ignorant self serving and destructive way of doing things. Brownteeth, do you hearyor defense of sprawl? Are you seriouswhen you say thatsprawl is theonly way for you to have a job?

This is largely an ideological debate, much like politics and religion. It is loosely based on facts, usually facts that support one side and degrade the other side of the argument. This is no different than listening to two republicans talking shit about the democrats or the other way around. Democrats will side with democrats, and republicans with republicans, if you don't support the democrats then you must support the republicans, if you are aren't in agreement with us then you are against us.

I don't believe that demagogues like STEEL, Blackrocklifer, and Grad94 will ever get past their emotional pleas to see the facts of the situation. They would rather put down a faceless group to further their cause than to reach out and gain an objective perspective on the matter.

Someone like Steel doesn't see the hypocrisy of proclaiming the damage that suburbanites have caused to the city due to their relocation, while writing from the city that he relocated to. He won't let himself see that hypocrisy, instead he ignores it or tries to deflect the attention away from it. His beliefs are so set that I believe he thinks that as long as he is living in a city somewhere, he is doing more for his urban cause than someone who lives in the suburb outside of the city he believes they ruined.

His argument is purely emotional, facts are used only when they support his argument, if someone brings in other facts then they are quickly dismissed with a typical one line retort that has nothing to do with the facts, but reflects the common belief of his ideology.

Instead of working towards meaningful solutions, the ideologues are busy creating more dissension and continuing the battle by pitting their side against the other.

Suburbanites can be taught the virtues of urban living. I for one sure have. I grew up in your typical late 70's/early 80's development, off a 55 mph highway (rt. 5) in Lake View, then moved out to a semi-rural area (Evans), before finally settling in the Village of Hamburg about 3 years ago. While its not the city, it is a densely populated, walker-friendly, mixed use neighborhood.

Growing up in the suburbs, I never even considered all these pros and cons. To me, that was just "how people lived". And I originally bought my current 100 yr. old home simply because I like the architecture, quality, and character of older homes. But living here has shown me all the benefits. I can walk to multiple parks, schools, bars, restaurants, a grocery store, the gym, 18 mile creek, and many other stores/businesses. There is a much greater sense of community here as well. There's a farmer's market, outdoor concerts, festivals, parades, and many other things that bring people together commonly. This has all caused me to educate myself on the wholesale, greater benefits of urban living, which is something I probably wouldn't have even considered, let alone known about 5 years ago.

Cities can take advantage of something that is happening right now. As I said, crime and poor schools have driven away the middle class. That's actually good news. Why? Because the baby boomers who are currently starting to retire are the biggest demographic for revitalizing our cities. Let me explain.

First, retirees don't care how bad the schools are, because their children are all grown up. Therefore, one of the two major reasons for repelling them don't matter anymore. Clean up the crime (which benefits everyone), and you now have a very attractive place for retirees.

Second, baby boomers are not retiring to traditional southern places like Florida or Arizona anymore. AFter all, that's where their parents retired, and boomers always do the opposite of what their parents did. Where will they retire?

Well, they have to sell their suburban house. It's too big for a couple now that the kids are gone, and they are tired of cutting the grass and shoveling snow. Plus, the house has an enormous amount of equity that they can use for investment.

So they are selling their suburban houses. Where will they buy now? Likely, an apartment or condo that is cheaper and easier to maintiain in their old age.Those are typically located in cities.

Boomers are the most highly educated demographic ever. They don't want to retire to just play golf. Instead, they will want to take extension classes at the local universities and cultural organizations. Those are located in cities usually.

They are also highly skilled. They don't want those skills go to waste. Instead, they will serve on the boards of non-profits and put their management skills to use for fund raising and management. Non-profits and opportunities to 'give back' to the community are much greater in cities.

As they get older, driving a car gets more worrisome. They would prefer to at least have the option of public transportation, to be able to walk to a store or a pharmacy. Only cities have public transportation.

For all these reasons, cities have the answers that the suburbs lack. Cities are the ideal place for boomers to retire. In fact, a couple from Washington DC who are planning their retirement consulted a website that offered to select the ideal place for retirement based on their preferences, and they were shocked to have Buffalo come up as their number one preferred choice. But it makes sense, as it offers everything that I described above.

Buffalo should make an effort to make itself attractive to retirees (which would be very easy to do), and then make a serious marketing effort on that point. If cities such as Buffalo can capture just a small percentage of retiring boomers, it could reverse the decades slide.

That kind of makes the point, less crime (or at least perceived as such) Public transport is pretty close, and the school is down there. It has a semi-walkable community.

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Erie County
Population in 2009: 270,240. Population change since 2000: -7.7%
Erie county Commute time up 50% from 2000 to 2009 . According to the Buffalo News article a few months back.