Grisanti and Hoyt: Time for ECC to Consider Consolidation

anybody see don esmonde today? he calls for converting the old am&a's for ecc. sanity!

Bookend to the medical corridor? Interesting!

Personally (which counts for nothing) I would think it would be better to put it as close as possible to UB. That would create opportunities to collaborate and share resources.

small example: ECC students can use the UB book store.

Better synergies would be privately developed student housing, shared dining options (private or hall).

AM&A's has by design and combination over the years large(r) floor plates. Perfect for some class a office space which has shown to be in demand.

This is what...the 4th or 5th 'plan' for am&a's by Rocco?

Here is just a take from a non-Buffalo fanboy.

The idea of merging ECC into two campuses and having the anchor downtown is a good idea in most respects. It really could become a great asset for the region.

But the fact still remains that a large % of the population does not live near this campus. No matter how you try and frame the issue, that is simply a fact. This is a regional issue and you need the entire region to come together.

Just a couple points....

1 - Having Esmonde as the voice is a horrible idea. The guy is a tool and makes stuff up as he goes. One, while Rocco is my favorite developer, he does not have the Midas touch as Donny claims. Again, Rocco suggesting using am&a's for ECC is not really about vision. It is about finding a pool of cash to rehab the building. See the first line in this post.

Donny also claims that using this project "uses taxpayer dollars to reverse sprawl, instead of feeding it." Which is ridiculous. First off, people did not move to Amherst or locate a business in Amherst because they had an ECC campus. They are also not going to move out of Amherst if ECC were to leave. To inject sprawl into the conversation only clouds the issue and create additional resentment from this 'bastards in the burbs'...which in turn leads to lines in the sand being drawn.

2 - There is nothing that is or will be World Class about ECC. Nothing against ECC but it is a community college. Community colleges are not supposed to be world class. They are supposed to serve the community. While people in Buffalo think ECC belongs to them...it doesn't. It belongs to Erie County. So again, the discussion needs to be focused on how closing the campus in Amherst and Building a top notch campus downtown would benefit Erie County.

3 - Do people in Buffalo really want Grisanti and Hoyt playing hardball with money...holding it up or trying to do so if they do not get their way? Again, that is just going to lead to more lines drawn in the sand. A fight that will cost both sides in the end.

3 - Lastly, what is the exit strategy for the Amherst campus. People can talk about pretty buildings downtown and the reversal of sprawl but that has never been mentioned in the discussion.

Has anyone actually thought trough what is going to happen with that MASSIVE plot of land? Do people really think it is going to sit empty. Do people really think Amherst is not going to do something with it?

That could easily be a 500+ home subdivision. It could be a MASSIVE office park. Just where do you think those companies and residents are going to come from?

Smaller, faster, lighter?

Unfortunately, the County Executives ego is too large to allow anyone else have an idea that prevails. AM&A's is about a block and a half away. And whoever says there is no space to build around the downtown campus needs to take a walk to the east and south of the old post office.

Good call stepping up by Hoyt and Grisanti.

The political trend towards focusing on downtown is an excellent development! There is plenty of empty commercial space in the vicinity, ripe for rehab. (Not to mention some great residential stock to the east. I like Chris' idea about synergy between our government agencies, getting more for less from scarce resources during the Great Recession. We need consolidation into our downtown core. As "Joe the Planner" says in his blog, we are the poster child for the ills of urban sprawl: our metro population has essentially remained unchanged since the end of WWII. . .we haven't shrunk; we've just spread-out.

I work in Williamsville across from ECC and I swear to God if half the traffic around here was downtown it'd be 100% better than what it is now during most days. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Since it takes 5+ years to get things done in WNY, we need to plan accordingly. In 5 years gasoline will be $5.50, you can bank on this and public transit will be vogue. We need to stop spending tax dollars on projects that need huge parking lots. We already have a subway system, lets use it. Everyone needs to contact Quinn and Collins about this issue. Use this until someone finds their personal emails:
public_feedback@erie.gov

The city/suburbs turf war has a long history and no shortage of long-term resentments. However, the basic fact here is that the region's most promising economic development generator is the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus and it is located on the edge of Downtown Buffalo. Unlike UB and ECC, there will be no suburban BNMC. The first building of the second round of construction, the Global Vascular Institute, is close to finish. The multi-building nursing care facility and the parking ramp that are also part of the second round of construction are also well on their way to completion. The new building at 1001 Main St, at Main and High, is next on the construction timetable and yet another new building for Roswell, now at 75% of the required funding, is set for construction next year. There is a BRO post today about the commencement of the development of Ellicott Park. A technology charter school is moving from Tondawanda to a rehabbed St. Vincent's Orphanage on Ellicott St and UB, whose Amherst location is the mother-well of the city/suburb animus, is building its new medical school on the campus. In addition, other projects such as the continuation of existing underused or vacant building conversion to housing moves on and a new hotel is on the boards for the area. With all of this activity ongoing in the BNMC area, many ask why would ECC build an academic facility whose graduates will find work at BNMC so far from it. Most importantly from a student perspective, what effect will the distance have on internship opportunities. I don't think some internship at Windsong or some medical office building on the Clarence end of Sheridan Drive is going to suffice for these students when they know there will be a lot of competition for work at BNMC after graduation. I would like to hear from Collins, Quinn, etal about their take on the effect that a facility in Williamsville will have on the chances of those students getting internships. As for Rocco, he's a very smart guy. A lot of current BNMC staff live in his Downtown housing.

If this goes through, I'd like to make sure that Rocco Termini doesn't profit from the transaction by renting back to Erie County because Erie County has already given him breaks on the AM&As building.

Also, when will Artvoice finally update the Steve Christie banner on the side of the AM&As building? That has been there for way too long.

Longgone deserves plaudits for raising very credible objections to the downtown consolidation. Many (especially in Amherst and Clarence) are unenthusiastic of the prospect of driving downtown for their studies.

That said, I hope Grisanti and Hoyt somehow manage to prevail in this. AM&As is a home run for ECC, imo. And it's hard to argue against putting medical science studies close to the medical campus.

The real key here is getting suburbanites past the threshold of adventuring into the urban core. For many who grew up outside the city, downtown represents a dangerous inhospitable no man's land. Luring them here for studies would change lots of opinions, although the prospect of a longer drive further from home and employment is a disincentive.

This is not a Buffalo V. Suburbs issue, Jack Quinn & co. are trying to force a new facility at North Campus down the throats of Erie County taxpayers without looking at the bigger picture. Nationally more than 50% of people working in the medical field are educated at community colleges. They aren't your Doctors and Surgeons, but thay are the techs, nurses, orderlys, etc. so an ECC grad would have a very good chance to get into a position in the BNMC if they were associated with it and not isolated in Amherst.

Secondly, the majority of suburban households have access to at least one car...that's 95% of the suburban population with access to a car. 31% of residents in the City of Buffalo do not have access to personal autos and must rely heavily on public transportation. A bus ride to the Williamsville Campus is over an hour and a half, and if you have late classes forget about going home, barely any bus lines run late due to cuts and changes by the NFTA.

Essentially, weather it's a fact that is liked or not, Buffalo is the most accessible location in Western New York. Multiple highways lead to Downtown, it is already our regions transportation hub, and that is where the Buffalo-Niagara Medical Corridor is already located, so why would anyone in their right mind not take advantage of the already existing infrastructure, and facilities?

oh yea, did I mention that If ECC were to use the old AM&A's building that they would get a $7.5 Million tax break...more than the share they've been tasked to raise for the Amherst Project. Or they could use one of the many properties already owned by the county that were secured during the Giambra administration. What Are Amherst's advantages? We still haven't heard anything about WHY AMHERST?

-I think everyone but the leaders wants ECC medical building downtown and many dont want the ECC North Campus either.
-Suburbanites dont want the traffic and its to close to the NCCC Campus.

-Their not going to get state, federal or country monies to fix the north campus.

-I do not agree with the AM&As Complex of buildings. We are talking about a Medical Technologies building being retrofitted into an old department store...NOT GOOD...but it would be a good opportunity for student housing.

-There is a 12 block Campus bounded by the Post Office, the Public Library and Michigan...students need to be as close as possible to each other

Student will have no trouble driving in. First, they've been going to Chippewa since they were 18 :). Second, close to 50% of UB students live within 30 miles and drive in. If UB feels downtown is a good decision for their students, why doesn't ECC?

When UB Med moves downtown, the xtra parking at main street could expand the park-n-ride program to help minimize the trek.

I luv the idea of consolidating ECC Downtown, but not at AM&A's. I still want to see it transformed into a mix use building with a hotel, living space and first floor retail/restaurants. IF ECC did move in, I would still hope for a first (and second) floors to be with a retail mix. All I can picture in that massive space is 2 to 3 major retailers, one to two stories and a cafe/restaurant thrown in. People already work, live and visit downtown, it's time to get retail back!!!!

Part of what is missing by the proposed Amherst building \ campus are all the impromptu discussions or meetings that could happen and benefit the students. A BNMC researcher ends up talking to an ECC student at lunch at the Electric Tower. Maybe at Ulrich's for a drink afternoon drink. Ideas \ relationships \ business idea \ opportunity are born from the mix and swirl of different people and ideas. Students \ Faculty \ Bosses would immediately have things in common and a base to form deeper relationships. This is what makes the city a dynamic and exciting place for everyone. There isn't anything quantifiable about these kinds of things like what % of population reside within a distance to X campuses etc... but they are how good societies and business are built. Why are so many grand ideas \ businesses are formed on college campuses \ dorm rooms? IMO it is because in the Post WWII America they are the few places that people still mix and mingle ideas. I think the downtown campus \ building would be greatly beneficial to the students and region.

I like the point one person made above about many of these students have already been coming downtown to drink since they turned 18. As far as parking, it's much harder to find a spot on a Friday and Saturday nite than it is on any given weekday, Trust Me!!!! Have to find better excuses as to why ECC should'nt be consolidated downtown.

just had to toss out the reminder that no other county in the state of ny has a community college with -three- campuses. the question of sustainability is valid.

seems like the only thing we enjoy more than our fits of martyrdom over high taxes are our fits of opposition to consolidating or merging anything.

The ECC north campus is lousy. Location, design, and overall condition of the buildings. I'm surprised they hadn't made any substantial improvements over the past couple of decades when you consider it's growth. It's a good thing they hadn't. If the campus did receive a ton of capital improvements over the years, shutting it would've been off the table completely. This creates a tremendous opportunity to invest in the original campus that sits on good bones already and is in close proximity to almost everything downtown.

A health science building should be in an area's medical hub which in our case is the BNMC. Health science students at ECC are not competing for the same interships as those at UB. ECC trains techs, plebotomists, 2 year nurses etc. that require practical experience at our hospitals and labs. Many rotate at Roswell, BGH, WCHOB, SOCH. During rotations they are still required to do some didactic work at the school's campus. Much easier to go between ECC downtown and these hospitals. Moving the nursing program solely to ECC north makes NO sense.

Fast forward 10 years, when ECC has one campus in Buffalo and ECC North becomes a large modern office complex that becomes incredibly attractive to large companies that remained in the city. What if one of the major Buffalo employers decided to relocate to the old ECC campus, I bet there would be many from BRO calling foul because they failed to look that far into the future.

Its a great idea and there are many ways of looking at it. parking would certainly be the greatest consideration.

at first i liked the idea of having a sprawling campus. However lately i have been thinking that two 15 story buildings on division street would make a real impression.

Shut it down & sell all the property. Why should any County be in the education business? Chris Collins must want this entity to go away.