City June 29, 2011 1:02 PM

Buffalo Cinematic Trust: Rallying Those In Our Film Industry

Buffalo Cinematic Trust: Rallying Those In Our Film Industry
With a the now focus on wooing filmmakers to shoot in NYS, there are some in the local film community who are chomping at the bit to get organized, so that when the industry does look at Buffalo, we are prepped to participate. Often times studios can't rely on the cities that they embark upon, unless they are assured that there are enough resources to rely upon. Buffalo's Film Commission is just a piece of the puzzle, securing film gigs, scouting locations, etc.

When it comes to the local film community, there are plenty of actors, directors, producers, set designers, editors, writers, equipment and tech resources, animation wizards, film scorers, costume makers, food trucks, etc. who are willing to jump in to create a professional film package, or fill the gaps where needed. Many of these seasoned Buffalo pros like Peter McGennis and Justin Sammarco (aka Justin Ocrammas) have been living and working here for years, while others such as Jeff Wilber and Wildcat Christi are new to the scene and are looking to connect. We can't forget about the fresh grads on the street, looking for gigs in their hometown - we need to catch them before they flee to another city.

I recently connected with a guy named Garrett Vorreuter (photo left) who has his heart set on helping to wrangle together anyone who is interested in becoming part of something more organized. We talked about proximity to NYC and Toronto, the recent buzz in local indie films and festivals, and the need for collaboration to be of some assistance to the film commission. The Buffalo Cinematic Trust would tap into resources such as Squeaky Wheel, regional colleges and universities, and any other established entity in tune with anything film related.

This may be a large undertaking, but if you talk to anyone in the local film industry, they will tell you that there is a disconnect when it comes to sourcing resources. If you're new to Buffalo where do you event start? If you've been living in Buffalo, you might be jaded. Regardless of your station, your bent or your outlook, we would like to invite you to join us for an evening of networking at The Back Room located behind Hardware on Wednesday July 6th at 6pm.

The Back Room @ Hardware 245 Allen Street, Buffalo NY (716) 882-8843

Message from Garrett:  

Buffalo is not Hollywood, and that's a good thing. In the past those who wanted to make movies or be an actor thought it was necessary to move to places like LA or NYC, where the film industry existed. Consider that the stone age of modern movie making. Now with the development of digital technologies, which replaced the skill sets of what were trained professionals, makers are able to do more with less and in ways Hollywood would never dream achievable.

With the decentralization of the film industry, Buffalo like many other cities could potentially develop itself into a hotbed for the next generation of modern moviemakers, by embracing the digital wave as it unfolds upon us. This sort of a development of a "hot bed for digital cinema production," would require more than just a community of local film and video makers. What it requires is awareness, acclaim and a critical lens to illuminate the local makers, their achievements and the development of a model of behavior for others making work in this city (to learn and succeed from). Buffalo, like any other city looking to achieve this, can't do it with only one local maker, making something great. For instance, Vincent Gallo made Buffalo 66, which saw a great deal of acclaim and in itself could have served as the original step towards turning Buffalo into a city where the film industry is embraced. However it takes more than just one Vincent Gallo and their individual acclaims to achieve this. There needs to be a follow up by other local makers, who create work that will gain acclaim, and thus bring attention back to the City as a place for makers to achieve this. This is what's needed to create a positive model of behavior for makers to feed and grow from as part of the local film and video making community.

In creating a local community of makers that will work together to promote the city as a developing hotbed for the new wave of digital filmmaking... we can go ahead and skip the step that normally brings attention to a city by means of an individual's work receiving accolades and attention. Instead we could move ahead by coming together as a working collaborative community, creating a mutually beneficial model of behavior: for makers to learn and feed off of, as they grow, develop and create their own work individually. Inevitably over time one of these local makers will arise to create a locally made work, which will be good enough to receive some sort of acclaim. This is good, that's what was intended in creating a collaborative community that not only helps, but also challenges its local makers to create the kind of work that will bring attention from outside the city's community. But just like the case of Mr. Gallo and his film Buffalo 66, there needs to be another (preferably many others) who goes on to create work that will receive accolades and acclaim in order to direct a critical lens on to Buffalo as a hot bed - not only for Buffalonians- but for the larger new wave of modern American cinema production.

Please join us on Wednesday July 6!
 
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I think if Buffalo and WNY can use the same steps Albuquerque implemented to start up it's booming film industry, they might stand a chance at creating a really good option for production companies looking for dirt cheap locations for both film and television.

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Not a bad suggestion. But do we really want to attract "production companies looking for dirt cheap locations for both film and television"? It does nothing for the community and brings in no money. We'll end up with companies that are looking to take advantage of Buffalo and drain it of its resources like the aliens in ID4 rather than companies looking to invest. How about changing the nomenclature and attitude to "production companies looking for affordable and unique locations."

replied to jumpingbuffalo
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Of course you want to attract productions looking for dirt cheap locations! They still consume gas, food, drink, incur dry cleaning bills, visit attractions, rent vehicles, shop at drugstores, malls etc etc etc etc etc.... ALL WITH MONEY THAT WAS NOT IN BUFFALO BEFORE! Should we land a TV Series like Detroit did, that will equate to hundreds of millions a year pumped into the local economy.

You really think production companies are going to change their way of operating to suit YOUR wants? A little naive I'd say.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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Again Kaitcool I can't tell if your joking or not.
I assume your joking since you said this "You really think production companies are going to change their way of operating to suit YOUR wants?" even though no one suggested that.
I was saying that rather than advertise being "dirt cheap" which translates to desperate and lacking, advertise Buffalo as a desirable commodity. There are unique locations around Buffalo that could work to a productions advantage in storytelling and being affordable with incentives. But just being "dirt cheap" sells us out as the dollar store of locations.
And dry cleaning bills? Really?

replied to Katkool
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Yes, dry cleaning. Wardrobe departments require dry cleaners almost on a daily basis during production so yes, dry cleaners profit from productions shooting here. EVERYONE profits just about.

Regarding your promotion of Buffalo. The one concept, "dirt cheap", does NOT preclude the other "incredible locations and opportunities". Producers first look at the CHEAP and then work their way up to find the cheapest place to find the "incredible locations". This is not a novel concept. It has been like this since filmmaking began.

So... again... saying we're dirt cheap does not sell us short or make us look desperate. It makes us look "interested" and "willing to work with" production companies. These are things they look for. We're not in a position to parade around like a peacock because we think we have better architecture to offer than others. Thats just plain BAD BUSINESS.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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OMG Kaitcool your right!
I do the same thing when I'm buying a car.
I don't give a crap about what I'm driving. I first check to see if it is cheap. Dirt cheap.
Then I see what color it is.
Same thing with food. That is only if I get kicked out of the bulk section for eating for free again.

Look my original suggestion was changing the wording of "dirt cheap" to "affordable".
If trying to highlight your best selling points while using better wording is "BAD BUSINESS" then I guess I'll get on my bike and go home.

replied to Katkool
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...sigh......

Buffalo's incredible locations need to be showcased in a mainstream film with mainstream stars, not geriatric Playboy bunnies in low budget slasher films.

Once the concept of Buffalo's cool locations is in planted in Hollywood's mind, along with that of a hundred other cities, it boils down to money.

I can't believe you're fussing about wording? If it were up to me I would advertise FREE locations which, in actual fact, ARE available through the city and County.

You need to compete with cities that have seasoned feature film crews which is a HUGE disadvantage for Buffalo. This is another reason that I planned my film to train and give a local crew a legitimate feature film credit on a film with real stars. It would breach a huge hurdle for the city vis a vis Hollywood.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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...fart.....
"Buffalo's incredible locations need to be showcased in a mainstream film with mainstream stars, not geriatric Playboy bunnies in low budget slasher films"
Where are you getting this stuff? What are you even talking about?

Wording is everything in advertising. Like for instance my wording which responds to your comments and your wording which goes off on non sequiturs like the sentence above.

We've had mainstream stars come into Buffalo to film "mainstream-like" movies. Prices were "dirt cheap" so they got in and out as fast as possible, which is what's good for production.
So fast even that they were out of here before they had to dry clean their clothes.

replied to Katkool
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Want a direct response? No problem.

What films were shot here entirely in Buffalo recently with major stars? As far as I know NONE. My comment about the slasher movie with the geriatric Playboy bunny refers to a movie mentioned in this string by another poster who claims its going to bring Hollywood to grovel at Buffalo's feet. Yes, I, unlike you, prefer an educated and informed opinion.

Hollywood does NOT like quick in and outs as you erroneously claim. Every "company move" (changing locations to you) is costly and time consuming. Hollywood likes nothing better than to find locations that are cost effective and fruitful. When they go to Toronto or Vancouver or the Czech Republic to shoot, they usually stay for the entire film. If they shoot and run here its because we do not have the infrastructure set up yet to entice them to stay, i.e. seasoned feature film crews with REAL credits.

There, was that clear enough or do I need to draw pictures?

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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Listen Kaitcool. Its cool that you created this profile specifically to pimp your movie on this forum but don't pretend you know anything about production without siting specific productions.
Big Hollywood movies bounce around from location to location. Moderately sized ones will probably set up shop in a couple or one location. And indie flicks will be shot in one room regardless of what city it is.
What infrastructure are we lacking in order to "entice them to stay"? Everyone else in this forum seems to think that we're already set.
Oh. And some reading material for you since you made the erroneous claim that no Hollywood movie have come to Buffalo:
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/60830212.html
http://www.imdb.com/search/title?locations=Buffalo,%20New%20York,%20USA

replied to Katkool
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OK... this is silly. You're obviously a teenager with too much time on your hands.

I have made NO erroneous statements, a big word for you I imagine....

I said that no major film has come and shot here for any extended period, for a long time. This statement is TRUE. The Keanu Reeves film last year shot here a couple of days. The others are low budget non entities which again, shot only a few days.

Your statements about production just prove your ignorance. To waste time here REPEATING what everyone else that has emailed me privately has grasped, would be a waste of time.

Dude... speaking with authority about something you have no knowledge about shows you to be a) a child (teen?) or b) stupid.... I'm sure it will take you awhile to figure out what that means.

As for my film credits... LOL!!! You're the only idiot who didn't follow the links in the other posts to find out who I was and what I've done... Or is reading a challenge for you? Here, let me make it easy for you. Follow this link to other links:

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/03/feature-film-project-slated-for-buffalo.html

Get a life and stop interfering with those here that actually want to do something in and for this town.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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"When it comes to the local film community, there are plenty of actors, directors, producers, set designers, editors, writers, equipment and tech resources, animation wizards, film scorers, costume makers, food trucks..."
Let me stop you right there. Buffalo is a city where none of these jobs could earn a person a sustainable living. We have decent actors and that's only because their's a solid theatre scene, but as for the rest of your list forget it. Its all hobby filmmakers.
"When the industry does look at Buffalo, we are prepped to participate..." Again stop right there. What sort of fantasy are we playing out here? Participate in what? Wouldn't it be better to have the "industry professionals" come into a scene with a blank slate instead of a bunch of Susy go-getters?
Don't get me wrong. Its a nice effort but ""hot bed for digital cinema production,"? Get real.
I'm serious. Being realistic about the state of Buffalo and its film community will get you farther than being positive.
Good luck.
Oh ps their called costume designers.

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I'm not sure what you mean that none of those jobs could earn a person a sustainable living. The existence of many paid actors, businesses like DC Theatricks, video editors at the various TV stations, and the new but multiplying food trucks all stand to deny this idea.

Are there currently a lot of jobs available in these fields? Maybe not, but surely that's the entire point of this meeting: to brainstorm ways to strengthen the film industry and its support industries.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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You'll forgive my skepticism on the idea that "this meeting: to brainstorm ways to strengthen the film industry and its support industries".
Unless there are political figures and investors attending that I was unaware of.
I made a small exception for actors but did take notice that you mentioned the "existence of many paid actors" instead of "career actors."
And there's a decent spot for wedding video editors. Although I'll give you TV stations. Its not film but its not nothing.
And what's this obsession with "food trucks"? Catering? Thats goign to be how Buffalo's "prepped to participate" once the "big guns" enter town?

replied to JSmith
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I have to jump in here... I was heavily involved in the Buffalo Theatre community as an actor. I did quite a bit of stage work with various companies, and was one of the lucky ones who occasionally got TV commercial work.

I still worked a regular 40 hour a week job to pay my rent and bill... just like pretty much every other actor in Buffalo.

Many actors in Buffalo work for free, and on the rare occasions they DO get paid, it ain't much. For one show I agreed to the standard 8 week commitment: 4 weeks of rehearsal, followed by four weeks of performances (4-6 performances a week) and walked away with a whopping $30 (yes thirty) dollars. For other shows, my best compensation came out to about $100 a week for an 8 week commitment.

Anyone who claims that Buffalo actors are making a good living acting is out of touch with the reality of the acting community in Buffalo, or completely full of crap.

replied to JSmith
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I'll be there!

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I'll be there, only because I have to bring Mr. Ocrammas.

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I've been to meetings with a similar initiative in the past... curious to see how this one turns out. Unfortunately I won't be able to make it... any possibility you'll have someone taking meeting notes that can be sent out afterwards?

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What is amazing here is that those in the know are aware of a local gem of a asset transplanted here from Hollywood after working for 20 years with such legendary directors like John Frankenheimer, and yet, this article makes no mention of him or his current efforts to generate a film industry in Buffalo. Why? Why would you discuss inexperienced (at least in the ways of Hollywood professional filmmaking) filmmakers and not mention the one person living in Buffalo who can truly attract Hollywood productions?

Please see:

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/03/feature-film-project-slated-for-buffalo.html

...and follow the links to the various sites. THIS guy has the connections and experience to bring in name stars to shoot here and make notable films for few dollars.

The Buffalo Film Commission is counter productive at this stage due to inexperience, ignorance, and job security fears. Don't rely on them.

You folks should tap the ONE true Hollywood resource currently here and help him, if bringing Hollywood to Buffalo is what you really want.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. At first I was confused at your comment then I clicked on the link. Good one.

replied to Katkool
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What's confusing?

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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@ Katkool .... how very unfortunate that you are excluded from our big:"Buffalo Film Community". I am sure that people who actually would like to see results would love to have you on their team.
This narrow minded thinking on the part of most Buffalonians is the very reason nothing really gets accomplished here. How many years has it been since Buffalo 66 was filmed and that's our only claim???? What exactly does our film commissioner do??? Hand out permits for wedding videos? It is a sad shame that we don't feel the need to warmly welcome anyone who would like to extend their knowledge and MAYBE help this city!!!! You speak of working together... but it seems like you really don't mean it.

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Sorry Katkool.. the second part of my comment about not trying to work together was not directed at you. It was directed at the "Buffalo Film Community". I reread what I wrote and it may have seemed that way.

replied to squeaky
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I thought that THE major issue for out of town filmmakers is the tax credits they get. If a state offers a lot of tax credits, they will film in your state. If you don't have those credits, forget it. I hope NYS offers the proper tax credits, or else (assuming my information is correct), Buffalo will always be a backwater in terms of serious film.

Secondly, it isn't enough to use home grown talent. As good as it is, it simply can't compete because there are not nearly enough big films made here. Of course, the film industry is devolving, but if want one place to go for all the best people to make your film, where do you go? You go to LA. Perhaps New York.

So Buffalo needs to attract the best people to come to Buffalo to make those films. How do you attract them? By making films. It's a bit of a chicken and egg issue, of course, which means that you need to jumpstart the process.

This is a good beginning, but only a beginning. You need to find ways to attract the best in filmmaking to Buffalo, and then Buffalo will be known as a place where the best people are to make films. I'm not saying it's easy, but apparently Albuqueque has done it.

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Thank you for bringing that up.
I'm not sure I agree that the way to attract larger productions is by making films. But then again you have a point.
There needs to be something that advertises the locations of Buffalo to the outside film communities so maybe your right.
You seem to have some insight on the topic. Is there a city to city incentives?

replied to Rand503
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I totally agree that the way to attract productions is to shoot mainstream films here. Like you said, chicken and egg. That is EXACTLY what I am trying to achieve with my Hollywood on the Lake and Knights of the Grail film. Again, go check out the article BuffaloRising did and follow the links to see what I'm talking about:

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/03/feature-film-project-slated-for-buffalo.html

As for what production companies look for and what NYS incentives are, currently NYS offers a 30% below the line incentive which is pretty good. But production companies ALSO look for places where there is a LOCAL EXPERIENCED FEATURE FILM CREW, so as to reduce travel, per diems, and salaries costs of bringing Hollywood crews. They would prefer to just bring a few key personnel and hire the rest locally.

They also look for inexpensive locations.

They look for nearby equipment rental houses and labs.

And finally, a soundstage - although many empty warehouses can be converted to sound stages quite easily.

But yes, a feature film with Hollywood names in it entirely shot here would do much to raise awareness of Buffalo's potential. Again, check out what I'm doing through the above link.

replied to Rand503
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I don't think they look for inexpensive locations.
They look for "dirt cheap" locations.
Get it right.

replied to Katkool
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And what's wrong with that? When you go shopping for.... I don't know... socks for example... do you look for the best value or buy the most expensive? I fear you'd make a lousy producer. The producer's job is to achieve the highest "PRODUCTION VALUE" ON THE SCREEN for his buck. THAT is one of the major factors which make a better film which is in turn more marketable.

Nothing wrong with wanting stuff dirt cheap, especially if those selling it have NO OTHER OFFERS!! Like I've repeatedly stated. Production money is brought in and dispersed in many forms from Hotels to as I pointed out much to your surprise, dry cleaners.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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Why would you dry clean something when you could wash it at a coin-wash for dirt cheap?

replied to Katkool
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I can't believe I'm even answering this one.....

...there are many clothes such as suits, dresses, blouses etc etc etc etc, that cannot be washed in a coin laundry. I'm beginning to think I'm having this discussion with a teenager..... ;-((

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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And even if they did use a coin laundry, which I'm sure they would for many things, AGAIN, that's money in the Buffalo economy that wasn't there before.

Please stop posting if you are this clueless unless you're asking for insight.

replied to Katkool
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I"m just trying to make sense of your contradictory statements.
"They also look for inexpensive locations"
"you want to attract productions looking for dirt cheap locations!"
"If it were up to me I would advertise FREE locations"
"I can't believe you're fussing about wording? "

replied to Katkool
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OK... now I KNOW you're a kid.... none of those statements are contradictory.

replied to BuffaloFilmBuff
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The spotlight is already on its way to Buffalo. Over the summer it will build up and by October 1st the eyes of the world will be on the Buffalo filmmaking community. Will all of you be ready to take the momentum and awareness we are creating for you and run with it??

www.theperfecthousemovie.net

Shot in Buffalo and funded by almost all WNY'ers.

We are building an army and support your cause. If you want to be a part of where we are going contact me, if your heart is in the right place and your serious and passionate we have a place for you.

Kris.

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While I applaud ANY filmmaker, Hollywood will NOT take notice of a film distributed only as video on demand. I encourage your optimism and salesmanship but I think you might be taken more seriously if you were more realistic. Hollywood is highly unlikely to be clamoring at your door solely based on a Video on demand. You also contradict yourself in your other post by saying no one knows you or your projects but then say you've received worldwide acclaim and Hollywood awe.... keep track of the BS... Marketing is great, sales pitches are great but only of verifiable.

I'd like to talk to you. I live in LA like you I work out here in the industry but my heart is in Buffalo. Look me up on facebook Buffalonians Productions, LLC. Or, contact me at Buffalonians.net/blog. My name is Richard McMullen and we can discuss some of your points. READ the blog and you'll see we have MUCH in common. Best, Rich

One extra note for you all to discuss at this meeting. I lived 30 years in Buffalo before I moved to Hollywood. ironically the first film I made I ended up bringing back to Buffalo. I brought recognizable actors along with industry crew and producers to town and combined it with locals in those areas as well.

Cast, crew and production ended up being roughly 50 50 between locals and Los Angeles. Tim Clark and the rest of the film commission were a joke and waste of time.

They had zero answers and offered even less help. The film commission website had a list of crew and equipment locations that had to be one of the most outdated sites still online.

Beyond that the local businesses were flat out embarrassing. I had a local hole in the wall bar change their websites and menu prices to try and rip us off. One cater went from 9$ a plate on their website for simple stuff like pizza wings and roast beef up to 15 overnight. They even went as far as to change their website before responding to us with $15 a plate!!! Then had the nerve to be arrogant enough to tell me "we're not hurting for business so if you don't like it to bad, good luck finding somewhere else in WNY to feed people less than $15 a plate!"

Are you kidding me?? Not hurting for business in WNY how arrogant and self defeating do you have to be? We ordered 3 meals a day for 15 days straight. We shot in Cheektowaga and instead of the place down the street we had our catering brought from Niagara Falls for less than $6 a plate and with much more variety.

This was one of MANY local businesses that we approached without giving them the knowledge I spent my entire life in this city. Instead they heard Hollywood and movie and thought their ship had come in. Buffalo stinks of desperation and greed thats why no one comes there. Its the local community itself that is looking to gouge any outside dollar they can so instead they get nothing.

Some of the wonderful members that make up the Buffalo film community were the worst ones. Gribbons and Mammoth were absolutely disgusting to approach for business. One thought he was to good to even be bothered by us offering a take it or leave it quote more than double what it would have cost us to rent and drive the equipment from LA ourselves.

The other was triple any other offer and when we confronted him on the ridiculousness of that rate he apologized and said someone accidentally doubled the price and he didn't bother to tell us because he thought we were already turned off by them. Yeah he was right about that atleast.

You want to build something you need to change the culture and there is nothing a meeting can do to change the greed and disgust shown by the individuals and the local business owners.

I am currently planning for a multi million dollar comedy along with sequels to our original Buffalo film budgeted at around 10 million. All of these stories WERE set in Buffalo. My goal and dream was to bring every film I make back to Buffalo to premiere. After my countless experiences last summer I came to the conclusion Buffalo is and gets exactly what it deserves. There are however a few talented and passionate individuals we intend to cherry pick from your Buffalo filmmaking community and bring out to LA.

My suggestion is work with the devil you know. Make something SIMPLE for LITTLE money and make sure its as highly marketable as possible. Then make the next thing a little bigger eventually you will get to where you want to go. A thriving film community outside of Buffalo...

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OK... HERE I both agree and disagree with you. I've worked in Hollywood and around the world shooting movies for over 20 yrs. Studio movies with big stars, low budget independents, and micro budget films.

I totally agree with your assessment of the local Film Commission and Tim Clark. They are actually CONTER-PRODUCTIVE.

I agree that many of the local "crews" have over inflated egos and charge more than L.A. companies.

Where I disagree is with singling Buffalo out for price gouging when they here you're a film company. That happens EVERYWHERE!!!! In Mexico they blackmail you. You're shooting in a village square... have 2 or 3 days to go.... all of the sudden, cars surround the production honking their horns until the production company pays out "Goodbye money".... parting financial gifts to the villagers... so no... its not Buffalo. It's human nature alas.

BUFFALO CAN DO IT!!! We just need to shoot some films with GOOD Hollywood stars in them entirely here and showcase the city.

Toronto gets $950 million/year from Hollywood productions. There is NO reason we can't get some of that. Vancouver receives $1.5 BILLION from Hollywood annually. It's certainly worth the effort no?

Buffalonians Productions, LLC is a production facilitator. Plain and simple we are a company dedicated to bringing feature filming to Buffalo in a properly organized way. This means using the right equipment, well planned and correct facilities and services designed to cater to the needs of major motion pictures. The Hollywood community is a well oiled and organized machine. Unless Buffalo wakes up and decides to learn what real productions require in order to function properly then Buffalo will continue to be passed over as it has for the last 30 plus years. I have spent the last 9 years working in this industry in Los Angeles. So for almost a decade I've seen what is expected of a city if it wants to attract filming. Buffalo doesn't measure up - NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT. Buffalo needs to build the infrastructure necessary to make a bid to attract filming. PLUS it needs a film commissioner who CARES and has the KNOWLEDGE of this industry to bring it there. Rich McMullen - CEO Buffalonians Productions, LLC

This is really great guys! This comes at a perfect time for my upcoming film about the Electronic Music scene here in WNY and Southern Ontario. The current working title is "The Bohemian Groove Experiment", but this will change in the near future. Anyhow, I hope to discuss this with fellow filmmakers at this meeting. See you all 07.06.11
-Don Burns

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Well. This oughta' be fun.

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"Buffalo is not Hollywood, and that's a good thing."


Not necessarily. When "Hollywood" studios look to produce films outside their comfort zone (Hollywood), they look for cities with infrastructure as close to home as they can find. Hordes of multi-skilled hobbyist "digital filmmakers" and art-video devotees are definitely NOT what they need or want.

I was told (a few years ago actually) that we lose a lot of big budget film production here in the Buffalo area because there aren't enough union crew.

Who knew?

Has IATSE made any effort to educate and increase its membership so that we may ALL benefit from more production work taking place here? Has the "film commission" taken any steps to get the word out that we lose potential film production because of lack of union crew here?

Not that I'm aware of.

If you're talking about the mid-level productions (Independent) like say something on the order of "The Dissection of Thanksgiving" (a few hundred grand maybe) or "Manna from Heaven" (maybe 300 grand), then ok, there's room to employ local moderately experienced and theater people but those types of films tend to be "overlooked" and do little to boost the image of Buffalo as a "film town."


"Now with the development of digital technologies, which replaced the skill sets of what were trained professionals, makers are able to do more with less and in ways Hollywood would never dream achievable."


This has no bearing whatsoever on the *money* projects that consider Buffalo as a film production location. For no/lo budget films, ok, that's great, but I don't think we need more low budget camcorder films shot in Buffalo to boost the area's viability as a production town (unless you want more low budget camcorder films shot in Buffalo).


"There needs to be a follow up by other local makers, who create work that will gain acclaim, and thus bring attention back to the City as a place for makers to achieve this. This is what's needed to create a positive model of behavior for makers to feed and grow from as part of the local film and video making community."


More, better, films produced in Buffalo can't hurt, but even nicely made low budget Indie films won't mean anything to industry people who may consider Buffalo as a film production location. Buffalo isn't entirely all that unique when it comes to small Northeastern cities and I'm afraid without adequate infrastructure for the money projects AND a decent tax incentive - they won't come. Ever. Period. End of story.

(The last time I checked, the NYS tax incentive favored New York City.)


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BRAVO! At last someone posting with intelligence!

Though I agree with much of what you say, I would like to add my 2 cents worth.

Hollywood producers actually don't give a hoot if a crew is union. In fact they prefer that they not be due to all the constraints unions place on them. HOWEVER..... what a union crew means to a Hollywood producer is an experienced professional crew. Not one of those video crews you just mentioned. IF they can find a non-union crew that has worked on legitimate features, and the most telling signs of this are big name stars, not budget, then they will go for that crew in a heartbeat. Remember that the reason Hollywood doesn't shoot in Hollywood anymore is that the unions made it too expensive to do so.

I can tell you exactly what the Film Commission has planned to solve this. They have a 2 year plan to train crews. The problem with this gem of an idea? A Hollywood producer will NEVER higher a crew without actual real film set experience on a notable production. If they higher these people they will basically work as Production Assistants to the various departments and the company will STILL need to fly in a full crew. So basically they're wasting 2 yrs and lots of tax dollars for a plan that doesn't have a chance of success.

Again, I hate to sound like I'm peddling my project but what I am trying to do, if anyone will actually read it and think about it, is to solve various of these problems by shooting a film with a studio quality script, name stars which I can bring in, and train a local crew which will end up having that all important credit which will make Hollywood producers feel warm and fuzzy about leaving their crew behind. This truly isn't rocket science. Just common sense and a little insider experience.

As for the Tax incentives. The 30% below the line is for all NYS plus there's no Sales Tax. It's actually not too bad of a deal.

replied to santucci.chris
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"Hollywood producers actually don't give a hoot if a crew is union. In fact they prefer that they not be due to all the constraints unions place on them."


That's not true at all. There's union presence in all areas that enjoy significant film production because studios are beholden to unions and guilds and only get away without using domestic union and guild crew and talent when they leave the country.

Good luck finding a single domestically produced studio film made in modern times with a typical studio film budget that wasn't union.


"Remember that the reason Hollywood doesn't shoot in Hollywood anymore is that the unions made it too expensive to do so."


Not quite. Studios produce films in Canada and elsewhere, yes, to maximize their budgets, but there still is a significant amount of studio production taking place in the Los Angeles area as well as NYC, Illinois, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Massachusetts.

Non union crew would never be considered on a domestically produced studio film. Period. There are SO many checks and balances in place between union/guild labor and the studio system, that it just couldn't happen.

Try to produce even an Indie with a million dollar budget in a non-union town and you can expect a call from the nearest union house and possibly the teamsters.


"I can tell you exactly what the Film Commission has planned to solve this. They have a 2 year plan to train crews."


That's news to me. I wonder how they plan to facilitate such a scheme when they can barely finance a one man film commission.
If they're planning on coordinating it with the local "film schools" - good luck.

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First off, unions have special deals for studio films shooting outside the major hubs. Usually the deal is a certain quota needs to be met.

Studio films aside, these days the majority of films are produced independently and then sold to studios for distribution. I've done a couple like that. These are not to be neglected when trying to draw productions to Buffalo. This is a huge market.

The amount of studio production in the L.A. area plummeted after the 2 proposed union strikes in the early 2000's. Studio production in L.A. these days is mostly TV and pick up or reshoots for features shot elsewhere. Back in 2000 or 2001 when the strikes were threatened, the studios looked for alternative places to shoot and found many. They never looked back. So no, the vast majority of studio production is away from L.A. and as stated, even domestically the unions have a different set of rules for shooting outside the L.A. zone. I've dealt with them.

"Non union crew would never be considered on a domestically produced studio film. Period. There are SO many checks and balances in place between union/guild labor and the studio system, that it just couldn't happen."

Gee... then how did I manage to work on so many? The reality is very different.

As for the Indie films, done many and never had a problem. The Teamsters are the most annoying but don't waste their efforts on the small fish. Again, I've made many and this isn't an issue.

"That's news to me. I wonder how they plan to facilitate such a scheme when they can barely finance a one man film commission.
If they're planning on coordinating it with the local "film schools" - good luck."

Not sure who you are or why you would be in on this but its funded by Chris Collins and Erie County. A waste of time and money in my opinion but its a scheme of Clark's to make himself look like he's doing something. Collin's just seems to trust Clark's expertise for some reason which is surprising given that Collins is a very smart guy.

replied to santucci.chris
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"Studio films aside, these days the majority of films are produced independently and then sold to studios for distribution."


And are still union films.


"Gee... then how did I manage to work on so many? The reality is very different."


I love it when an anonymous message board poster talks about "reality".

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"Studio films aside, these days the majority of films are produced independently and then sold to studios for distribution."


"And are still union films."

Wrong. They are NOT for the most part.

While most independent films try and have some sort of SAG, and to a lesser extent DGA agreement, most avoid crew unions. Again, I am speaking from experience and these films are later sold to studios. It's a nice work around which works for everyone but the unions. To note, most crews working on these have some union crew members who are NOT reporting them to the unions. It's so prevalent that the unions don't go on witch hunts.

So again, you are incorrect. My primary background is production. Production in films of every size within the feature film industry... NOT commercials, though I've done a fair number of those too.

"I love it when an anonymous message board poster talks about "reality"."

Actually if you had read earlier posts you would have seen CLEAR links to previous articles about me. But I'm glad you love the posts about my 25 yrs of reality in the real feature film business in Hollywood rather than a lot of guess work going on here. So in order to make this easier for you here are a few links to make my experience a bit less anonymous for you. Again, these were posted days ago above if you had bothered to read:

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/03/feature-film-project-slated-for-buffalo.html

http://fantasyfactoryinc.com/Press.html

http://fantasyfactoryinc.com/About_Us.html

http://fantasyfactoryinc.com/Gallery/Pages/Demo_Reel.html

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fantasy-Factory-Inc/167890816590176

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hollywood-on-the-Lake/219932321360999

There, that should provide some incite into my credibility... if not... LOL... well what can I say... you must be right then... ;-))

replied to santucci.chris
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Sorry... that's "insight".... typo.... (blush)

replied to Katkool
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Tangents aside, the most pressing issue here is that Buffalo needs two things to attract film projects that would have any economic impact on the area:

1) Infrastructure (crew, vendors, etc.)

2) Tax incentive.


Ask Tim Clark how many producers have considered Buffalo for film production in the past 3 to 5 years and why they ultimately went elsewhere.


As Greg mentioned, it IS indeed a Catch-22 situation. When the economic advantage (tax incentive) outweighs the disadvantages (lack of infrastructure, proximity to better equipped cities, weather, etc.) only then would any form of infrastructure grow organically in Buffalo.


Many people have come and gone over the years who all had *the answer* to Buffalo's ills as a non-production town and guess what? They're gone.


And, if anyone is thinking of trying to sell a feature length film project as being "good for Buffalo," sorry to say - someone already tried it and failed spectacularly with far more local goodwill and locally culled resources than will be available ever again (in my estimation).


If anyone wants to do any good with respect to attracting substantial feature film or commercial projects (with budgets that could be spread around locally), I'd suggest doing some research and lobbying for:


A) A visionary film commission with the resources to market the area.

B) A higher tax incentive for upstate, since we have a fraction the infrastructure NYC enjoys.


Otherwise, filmmakers with thinly veiled schemes to "help" Buffalo by having their own projects produced is only going to sour the locals on film production in general when these projects yield nothing (as they always do).

replied to Katkool
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I love it!

"Otherwise, filmmakers with thinly veiled schemes to "help" Buffalo by having their own projects produced is only going to sour the locals on film production in general when these projects yield nothing (as they always do)."

Ouch... my feelings are hurt!

1. NO ONE has done or even come close to proposing to do what I am. A mistake that Tim Clark kept making when he tried to jumble my project with local indie slasher films with no stars, and yes, that film made a few years ago by some sisters who ripped the town off - again, with no experience and no stars. What makes mine different? I have :

a) 25 yrs experience making real marketable movies in Hollywood,
b) I have worked with Academy Award winning directors and actors and have credibility and connections which allow me to get name stars inexpensively,
c) I know how to produce films inexpensively yet maximize production value,
d) I am using a script that got me into a studio, thus studio calibre script.

What you're doing is putting down a project that has a legitimate shot at helping Buffalo, being produced by the only person in town with real Hollywood experience, because......? Hmmm..... Makes ya wonder doesn't it? Why exactly ARE you putting down other's projects?

As for asking Tim Clark ANYTHING related to the state of filmmaking in Buffalo, you must be joking. At a recent meeting he stated that Buffalo had MANY films in production and that there was another thinking of coming here for a few days when it came back from Hiatus.... As most of you may know, FILMS don't go into hiatus. TV series do. Nuff said. He is protecting a fun job and justifying why nothing is getting done. And doing so terribly. He IS getting funds from Chris Collins and is spending them poorly on ill-conceived and doomed long term schemes that will keep him in office for at least 3 more years while spending our tax dollars.

You guys are amazing! Instead of supporting each other, you backstab and put each other down to try and look grander yourselves! Get over yourselves!!! Support those with experience, and you know what? Support those without it who want to TRY and make a difference too!!! Doing ANYTHING is better than doing NOTHING!!

Unbelievable!

replied to santucci.chris
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"a) 25 yrs experience making real marketable movies in Hollywood,
b) I have worked with Academy Award winning directors and actors and have credibility and connections which allow me to get name stars inexpensively,
c) I know how to produce films inexpensively yet maximize production value,
d) I am using a script that got me into a studio, thus studio calibre script."


Yep. You're SO experienced working in the film industry and SO well connected that you have to solicit donations online to finance your masterpiece (that will be good for Buffalo).


"What you're doing is putting down a project that has a legitimate shot at helping Buffalo, being produced by the only person in town with real Hollywood experience, because......? Hmmm..... Makes ya wonder doesn't it? Why exactly ARE you putting down other's projects?"


I'm not putting down anyone's projects, per se. You're forgetting that some of us have been HERE for the past 25 years and we've SEEN and HEARD many supposed "industry veterans" who have moved back here and extolled upon us with grandiose tales of conquest in "Hollywood" while trying to convince us of their grand vision to "help" the area (while helping themselves).

All I'm saying is - "Enough with the 'good for Buffalo' BS!" You wanna make a film? Fine. Do what real Indie filmmakers do and go get investors or pay for it yourself. If you had any kind of decent package, I'd think film investors would be willing to invest, right?

replied to Katkool
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Dude... you are apparently a good electrician but an idiot when it comes to production and have some serious issues... Several people who know you have written to me privately to make excuses for you. They obviously like you but dude, you're making a fool of yourself.

To address your infantile attacks, my experience is in production, unlike you, not fundraising. That said, I am soliciting donations online because its a new way of funding projects. Perhaps if you got over yourself and joined the real world you'd see what new trends are happening around you. There's Indiegogo and Kickstarter as well as a few other portals. It will hopefully open doors to young filmmakers to finance their projects more easily. That is if people like you don't get in their way.

You say you're not putting anyone's project down but damn, if it doesn't sound that way!!! Again you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about helping Buffalo. Lets be clear Einstein, ANY film project, even the slasher films, help Buffalo more than NO projects. It's that simple. Hopefully you can comprehend that, maybe not. Clearly your peers do given the flood of emails I've received apologizing for your attitude.

Good luck to you. I do sincerely wish you well.

replied to santucci.chris
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I have been following your threads and rants, and also come to the same question: if you have all the experience and answers, why do you need to pitch it them on this forum? why not just do it, and show the locals how it is done in the process?

your bravado and condescending tone (at points) is detracting from the experience I bet you do have.

replied to Katkool
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"The article above, and the comments supporting it, may be well intentioned, but contain a fundamental lack of understanding about the film industry, and the challenges faced in bringing that industry to Buffalo, especially regarding logistical and economic issues.

There is no film industry in Buffalo. There’s a film community, made up primarily of a handful of pros like Chris Santucci who travel around the country for work – sometimes they get lucky and get to work on a commercial or a music video locally – and amateurs, with a few semi-pros thrown into the mix. Before anyone gets bent out of shape. “amateur” refers to whether or not someone is paid for their skills, and isn’t a qualitative judgment.

Chris Santucci is correct that there’s no infrastructure here, and that the dirth of professional crew people is a major hurdle (and if you don’t know who Chris is, you should). The bulk of our most dedicated filmmakers are writer-directors; we have a lot of chiefs, not so many indians, and a lot of the indians have never set foot on a professional set and are learning the ropes from others who have never set foot on a professional set, so there’s a self perpetuating cycle of amateurism that may work fine on an earnest micro-budget film, but is virtually useless on a pro shoot.

The article, and presumably the Buffalo Cinematic Trust, seems to be wrestling with two different points of view: that of our filmmaking community, and that of Buffalo, and how the city will benefit from having big productions come to town. These two points of view should not be confused with each other; someone who dreams of being a big director is not necessarily foaming at the mouth to stand around holding a walkie-talkie all day telling pedestrians not to block the shot. One view serves a creative community, the other serves as a welcome wagon to outsiders shooting in our city.

If people want big studio movies to come to town for more than two weeks, or for a TV series to set up shop here – the kind of long term commitments that will actually infuse capital into the local economy and put some people to work - another real challenge is that we don’t have a certified sound stage here. Productions that want to shoot outside Hollywood or New York City are going to go to states where they are best served by tax incentives. In order to qualify for the NYS tax incentive, a production has to shoot for one day on a certified sound stage in NYS (with a set consisting of three standing walls), and the sound stage has to be have 7,000 square feet of stage space. The closest we have are soundstages in Rochester. That may sound like a hop, a skip, and a jump away, but as soon as a production sees that Rochester has the foundation of an infrastructure that we don’t, there’s no reason for them not to just set up shop there. Until we have a certified sound stage here, we are not going to see any big films shot here for more than a few days, and no TV shows are coming to town except for reality nonsense like GHOST HUNTERS.

A few years ago, the city slashed the film commission’s budget, so our film commissioner quit. The film commission was then folded into the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and Tim Clark inherited the position, with next to no budget to work with. Tim’s job is basically to show filmmakers and location scouts around the city and try to entice them to shoot here. He also inherited the two big issues that always crop up: the lack of union crew people here and the lack of a certified soundstage. As Chris pointed out, there seems to be no outreach from IATSE to unionize local filmmakers, and even if there was, what’s the incentive for filmmakers here to pay dues when there’s no film industry? It’s a catch-22 scenario. If the city seriously wants to develop a film industry here, it could turn any one of many abandoned buildings into a certified soundstage; “build it and they will come.” That’s a decision to be made by city planners and bean counters, not by Tim Clark, who would love to see a soundstage within the city limits.

Because there’s no film industry here, Tim Clark has a small budget to work with, and no staff. He’s a one-man operation. On my last film, he provided me with the location I used on 18 out of 20 days, and it didn’t cost me a cent. He’s also been helpful to me since then, and I consider him a resource. All that blaming him for any challenges faced by the filmmaking community is going to do is convince someone with budget approval to close our film commission office down, and then this nascent thing of ours will be dead in the stagnant water. Rochester’s film commission seems to be stepping up its activities, possibly because of their studios, and most certainly with the budgetary support of that city.

Because there’s no film industry here, there is no incentive for local businesses to provide discounts for filmmakers for anything. This is a cash strapped city in a horrible economic climate. There are price gougers, like the equipment renter in Rochester, but I encountered that all the time in NYC too. People hear “movie” and think “money” – that’s the case most places. People aren’t going roll out the red carpet and bend over backwards to help us just because we bring some niche actors to town. But look how the local media fell all over themselves covering HENRY’S CRIME when Keanu Reeves came to town; I bet they got plenty of discount support, and they had money. That’s just how people are (it’s also what happens when you have professional producers and production managers who know how to get these things).

On every pro shoot I’ve ever been on, the production team saved money by using a caterer. On my last film, my production manager found a caterer who worked for free and only charged us for the cost of groceries, so deals can be worked out.

My film cost $50,000. We qualified for the NYS tax incentive program because we did our research, we worked with the Governor’s Office for Film and Television, and we shot one day at the Rochester soundstage. We didn’t get the full 30% tax credit, because that’s 30% of approved costs, but we did qualify for 20%, and after my wife and I spent two months doing the paperwork every free minute we had, and we got a check for $10,000. We worked out a deal for the soundstage, but even if we had paid the full $2,000 daily rental fee, a net gain of $8,000 is nothing to sneeze at. My contact at the Governor’s Office told me we were the lowest budget film to apply for the rebate, which tells me that indie filmmakers all over the state – not just in Buffalo – aren’t doing their homework, and aren’t going about this the right way. State armories are certified, and while they’re impractical for big production use and won’t solve the overriding issue, they will satisfy the state’s requirements so that local filmmakers can get more money for their post production, and make a better product. Unlike some states, NYS doesn’t set a minimum budget for its rebate – any filmmaker can apply before he begins production, just be ready to fill out a lot of paperwork. The state film commission was very helpful in walking me through the process.

Unless the state eliminates the soundstage requirement (and I assume they implemented it in the first place to assure that the filmmakers hoping to receive the rebate had a certain level of professionalism), or unless the city takes the unusual step of creating its own soundstage, or unless someone buys or rents a suitable space and gets it certified, nothing is going to bring the industry, and no collective like the Buffalo Cinematic Trust is going to change that, no matter how well meaning its intentions.

Collectives and clubs and organizations are fine, but if you’re going to state certain objectives and propose solutions, it’s good to have a better understanding of the actual problems, and questioning the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you doesn’t seem like a very good launch strategy."

-Greg Lamberson,

director of Slime City Massacre

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"Until we have a certified sound stage here, we are not going to see any big films shot here for more than a few days, and no TV shows are coming to town except for reality nonsense like GHOST HUNTERS."

This is an argument I heard from Clark as an excuse. The reality is very different. While I totally agree that there should be a qualified soundstage here in Buffalo, it is FAR from a deciding factor in why a film would or would not come to shoot here. You underestimate the creativity of professional, seasoned producers and UPM's.

First off, a soundstage can be created out of an empty warehouse. Make it 7,000 sq ft and you're ready for NYS approval. Please note that Chris Collins already knows this and plans to discuss what empty buildings owned by the city can be converted for this with the Mayor. BUT........ will lack of it make an interested producer shoot elsewhere because of the 1 day tax incentive requirement??? You must be joking!!!! They would should here, use a warehouse for a stage, and send a second unit to the nearest "approved" stage to shoot some bogus scene for a day thus qualifying the whole picture for the tax incentive. You really need to know how clever and gifted these producers are at problem solving.

Regarding the Film Commission and Mr. Clark. I have personally found him to be counter productive to the cause of promoting shooting in Buffalo. Mark Stricklin, the previous Commissioner who was extremely qualified having launched the industry in North Carolina, left because he wasn't paid. I was still in L.A. planning my move here when we discussed the many things he wanted to do together with me to try and boost Buffalo. By the time I got here he was packing his bags. I subsequently offered Clark the benefit of my expertise and Hollywood connections at no charge as I knew he had no film industry knowledge. He ignored my offer.

At a recent meeting with Chris Collins he outlined his master plan of training a crew over the span of 2 years in order to attract productions. I pointed out that a Hollywood production would not replace a seasoned Hollywood crew with an untested crew straight out of some school. Mr. Collins made it clear that he WAS giving Clark money for this and numerous other ventures. Money thrown out the window.

Hopefully rather than doing away with the film commission as you suggest politicians might do if we critique Clark, they will instead do away with Clark and hire another seasoned film professional like Stricklin and this time PAY him, and follow his advice!

I hope I've put the soundstage excuse to rest once and for all... It's truly driving me nuts and has done so since I first heard Clark come out with it in Collins' office. The soundstage is an easy fix and easily worked around by any seasoned producer.

My solution? Again... Put together a REAL film based on a studio quality script with A List or as close to as possible actors for a low budget, showcasing Buffalo's extra ordinary architecture and beauty. The film can do the rounds at festivals but more importantly stand a chance at real theatrical distribution which WILL make Hollywood studios and independents take notice.

I see a lot of backstabbing here so I think film communities might help everyone work together. Who knows? I see bigger egos here than in Hollywood amongst filmmakers. Its really counter productive folks. Embrace your art! Don't stop learning! God knows I learn something new on every film and even on films I didn't work on!

replied to m. lambert
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IF the problem is experienced production crews, then perhaps the solution is to import them. Toronto must have plenty of experienced crews. Can't we import them to Buffalo for these types of films? Would it still be cost effective to do so? I really wouldn't know, but if it is still cheaper than bringing in the LA crews, wouldn't that solve the problem?

IF it does, then not only would that solve the problem, but if enough films are made here, then you build an experienced local crew, and surely that's the best permanent solution.

It also seems to me that if price gouging is an issue, then Tim Clark should establish a roster of companies with work with that will get City Hall approval on the condition that their rates remain reasonable.

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"Toronto must have plenty of experienced crews. Can't we import them to Buffalo for these types of films? Would it still be cost effective to do so? I really wouldn't know, but if it is still cheaper than bringing in the LA crews, wouldn't that solve the problem?"


Canadians need to have working papers to be employed in the US. An entire production can grind to a screeching halt if it gets popped for hiring Canadians without working papers, or (as happens many times) the Canadians can be rejected at the border. Maybe if there was more impetus for Canadians to get their papers (more work here, maybe less work there), this might be a good option to augment the minuscule crew base in the Buffalo area.


The NYC area routinely is tapped for affordable crew to work in Buffalo on low budget films.

replied to Rand503
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Thanks for the response! It's interesting that NY crews are still cost effective.

As for an adequate soundstage, that simply can't be terribly expensive. With all the empty warehouses in Buffalo, you'd think it wouldn't be hard to convert one, soundproof it, and put in the equipment. It would be an investment, and would have numerous uses not just for big budget films, but any sort of recording artist. If that's one of the major missing puzzles, it seems like a simple solution.

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Yeah, you'd be surprised how often NYC crew are brought into Buffalo since the crew base in NYC is so massive and local (experienced) crew here tend to not want to work for Indie film rates because they work almost entirely on commercial projects which pay something on the order of double to 4 times what an Indie will pay.


If it's even moderately busy in Buffalo, there are NO crew left to hire. If it's busy in NYC there are still plenty of crew available, many of which are more than happy to schlep up to Buffalo for a few weeks for pay rates that Buffalo or Rochester crew would scoff at.


The other side of that is union crew, and when potential union projects look at Buffalo, they see union crew that are primarily stagehands and a small number at that. It's a LOT harder and a lot more expensive to get union crew to leave NYC (or anywhere) and work here.


As for a "sound stage," I got an estimate from a contractor a few years ago and for a modest but usable stage (only), it landed in the half million dollar range. Retrofitting an existing space would I'd imagine cost maybe half that but then, the problem is - there's no potential film work here that I'm aware of that requires such a space. Nobody in their right mind would outlay that kind of cash unless they'd make their money back in a timely manner, but yes you're right, such a space would have to be multi-functional.


Not to mention - there are no real vendors renting film gear in Buffalo. Rochester has three that I'm aware of, however.


As I mentioned, when the economic advantages of shooting in this area start to outweigh the inherent disadvantages, that's when an industry would start to grow because as it has been proven time and time again, it IS feasible to bring in equipment and crew - if necessary. Without a distinct economic advantage (tax incentive), I'm afraid any regular volume of film work that could spur growth just isn't going to happen.

replied to Rand503
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On my first film Waxwork, we rented an empty warehouse for a few thousand a month and spent virtually NO money converting it into a working soundstage. It wasn't fully soundproof but it was also chose for being in an industrial complex far enough from any major noise producing issues. The worst problem we had was with the occasional airplane flying overhead. A problem you also have to deal with when shooting at any exterior or non stage location. The warehouse was sufficiently quiet naturally to block out exterior traffic and crew noise.

I can only assume that the half a million Mr. Santucci was quoted includes a full compliment of grip and lighting equipment (which is usually rented elsewhere anyway).

We shot most of the 8 weeks it took to shoot the movie in that warehouse.

Oh yes, we did have one more sound issue at the warehouse which became somewhat of a joke... an annoying cricket... A talent PA with hunting skills solved that problem.... ;-))

replied to santucci.chris
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"On my first film Waxwork, we rented an empty warehouse for a few thousand a month and spent virtually NO money converting it into a working soundstage."

1988 was a long time ago, and yes it IS possible to just rent out a warehouse if you can convince the property management that you're not some dipstick filmmaker who's going to damage the property and not follow up (I've had to deal with this fallout and it's not fun). Issues with "warehouse" as soundstage are dust, echo, exterior noise (aircraft/vehicle traffic, animals, people, weather), skylights, & heating/cooling.

"I can only assume that the half a million Mr. Santucci was quoted includes a full compliment of grip and lighting equipment..."

Nope. Slab, walls, roof, power, lighting, bathrooms, offices, parking lot. That's it.

replied to Katkool
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The only thing that may have changed from 1988 is that warehouses are better fitted with power and amenities with more natural soundproofing due to the need for better security. And we actually shot it in 1987.... ;-) In 1988 I was in Athens, Greece shooting a movie called "Olympus Force" with Christopher Lee.

With all due respect, you looked at the wrong spaces. There are oodles available with all of that already there that are NOT located in the middle of a highway intersection by the airport.

As for sound issues, when you walk into an empty stage, even at Universal Studios, you will hear an echo. Start building sets, fill it with equipment and crew and POOF! For the most part the problem is solved. If there is any residual echos, which is unlikely, the sound mixer compensates for it on his mixing board.

As for sound from "animals" as you seem to fear, I strongly suggest finding a warehouse that is NOT adjacent to the zoo or SPCA.... ;-))

Geez... every problem has a solution folks!!! So much negativity!!!

replied to santucci.chris
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Maybe stages were echoey 20 years ago but the ones I've been on seemed to have this new invention called "sound deadening material" covering the walls. I think they borrowed the technology from NASA or something. I've worked in large, acoustically live spaces (yeah with sets in them) and I wouldn't recommend it unless someone wants to ADR dialog or wants amateurish sounding dialog recordings.

And yeah, you can dial out some or most of the reverb in post, but that starts to effect the dynamics of the recorded signal to some degree and - it takes time. Been there, done that.

As for the "oodles" of wonderful repurposable warehouse spaces, I researched and scouted warehouses here for a few months as recent as a few years ago, and I can say with some authority that considering the necessary film production criteria, "oodles" is a bit of an overstatement.

I guess you have some secret map of better places to look that maybe you got from Christopher Lee while you were shooting "Olympus Force" in Athens, Greece but until that special map becomes available, I need to go by my own footwork and research and experience, thanks.

replied to Katkool
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God you're a child.

Christopher Lee is not likely to advise me on the locations of studio facilities in Buffalo but I can assure you that I have had not trouble finding them in every city I have needed one around the world. It's not a secret map that you need but rather an experienced eye and open mind. Neither of which you clearly posses.

Perhaps due to the calibre of the productions you're used to - which I'm not knocking - you're used to sound mixers recording on a portable digital recorder slung over their shoulders with a boom attached. However, professional sound mixers on normal feature films have sound mixing boards able to tweak ambient sound in and out there and then. I have never had an issue and ADR sessions were usually conducted for other reasons such as dialogue changes, mistakes or tweaking. And those were few. Very few. Post sound was never an issue and I've shot in jungles with all sorts of "animals" which you were afraid would get close to your soundstage and ruin the shots.

I think that as hard as it is for your ego to stomach, my 25 yrs in Hollywood working on feature films may, I say may, have given me just a smidge more experience than you currently posses. My advice to you is to stick to discussions about topics you are actually qualified in such as electrical department stuff. Leave the production discussions to those of us who have spent a lifetime doing it. I wouldn't dream of telling you how to rig lights and power. I wouldn't go and try and buy electrical gear. Don't try and tell me how to produce. You're embarrassing yourself, and there are a lot of people who like you but whom you're putting in an awkward position of feeling they have to explain that you're not a total idiot, just a victim of whatever suffering... Dude... have a drink, take a deep breath, and develop a positive attitude!

replied to santucci.chris
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I'm not the one here hijacking a thread about the film industry in Buffalo and trying (real hard) to sell myself and my awesome film project. My experience is my experience, it serves me, and people pay me for it on occasion.

I admit I haven't quite reached the level of being able to sneak around on an A list director's set with a video camera, but at least I have something to aim for.

Anyone who has worked with me knows all about my attitude, but thanks for the advice, chief. My work speaks for itself and anyone with 10 minutes to spare and a computer can get an idea of what I do.

Tell you what, go produce a half dozen feature length films in THIS area, a few dozen shorts and music videos, and about a hundred commercials, and then get back to me about what a "positive attitude" is.

I'm aware that there are solutions, I never said anything was impossible, and I'm ALL for more, better films being produced in Buffalo, but, I have to call BS when I see it. Sorry ;-(

replied to Katkool
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LMAO!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, I'm....LMAO!!!!!!! "Sneaking around an A List director's set with a video camera..." LMAO!!!!!!!! If you're referring to footage in my show reel of the film "Path to War" directed by the late great John Frankenheimer, you TRULY are an idiot, which of course explains all the crap you've been spewing here.

I worked with Frankenheimer for 10 years until he died!! I was an ACTOR and A.D. on "Path to War" - no "sneaking" required I assure you! LMAO!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!

What an idiot!

Good luck buddy.

replied to santucci.chris
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Chris,
I know we don't know each other but I didn't contact you out of the blue. What I don't know, you do. Most of the people in Buffalo who spout off knowledge don't have the experience nor do they know people who do, YOU do. I'm not stroking your ego I'm just stating the facts as I've observed. Right now I'm working on my film (Buffalonians), a music video (for JD) and towards bringing a film called "Victoria the First" to Buffalo. If we can SHOW these guys that we can all work together and get them to commit to Buffalo we have a chance! But, if everyone keeps BICKERING then you're right they can easily go elsewhere.

Just so you understand, many of the people in this blog haven't worked with people like David Milch, John Glennon (He passed away several years back but he trained some excellent camera men who are now FIRST RATE DPs), or quality crews, I have. And because I have, I can Name Names not just obscure rantings. My video will have an Emmy winning Set Designer working on it for another friend JD Tharpe. Her name is Maria Rebman Caso and her sister is a first rate set dresser Linda Rebman. Linda is donating her time (producing) right now as a close friend on the video. There is a laundry list of "professionals" Living and working steadily out here in LA who would relish the chance to come back home to work in Buffalo. Another close friend Joe Dain owns a turnkey operation that will travel ANYWHERE to work as a crew for hire. This gives us a whole group of people who can be a second or first unit. One of the camera men from Deadwood is a DP with him.

And, before you say yeah that's great but if you bring people here to supplement the lack of union crew in Buffalo, you have to think about housing and transportation for them. I have that covered as well. I happen to be friends with one of the largest commercial property owners in town. The sound stage issue is no big deal either, we only have to go to the auctions downtown and you can BUY property in Buffalo for what it costs to RENT it elsewhere. There are buildings in Buffalo that can be EASILY converted into sound stages, so filming will be possible in the winter. With the right plan and adequate backing ALL THIS is possible. But if everyone tries to puff their chest out and say how great they are then things will keep going the way they have.

I Don't know everything, but as I have said before, I'm smart enough to know what I don't know and bring people in who do.
You know filming in Buffalo and I know THIS business and Business Buffalonians. I have also told you some of them don't like me, well I don't like them, so the feelings are mutual. I even have some fences to mend there but when everything I set out to do in 2008 comes around, well then so will they. It took the producer of Batman 10 years "TEN", to get that film into the right hands and HE was KNOWN.

When you work on an Adam Sandler production you get to see a well oiled machine everyday. His crew and friends ALL worked together in the beginning years helping each other out. Dennis Dugan is one HELL of a director and those guys KNOW what they are doing. I got to shadow on Iron Man I and II as well and the crew on those films KICKED ASS. One of the BEST second ADs I've ever seen worked on those and he would work for me if the price is right.

We need to band together as film makers and make up for each others shortcomings NOT point fingers. THIS will build success. You and Peter McGennis have worked together with one of the cast members from my old show "Peter Jason". He's just another example of you guys doing the right things. You are also working with Jerry ALL these connections mean something. You MUST be a great guy to work with! So Let's stop yapping on HERE and yap with EACH OTHER.
Best,
Rich

replied to santucci.chris
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I made a naming error in my response to Chris. The name of our cinematographer on Deadwood was Jim Glennon. I was in a groove while writing my post.

replied to santucci.chris
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Chris: "when the economic advantages of shooting in this area start to outweigh the inherent disadvantages, that's when an industry would start to grow because as it has been proven time and time again, it IS feasible to bring in equipment and crew - if necessary. Without a distinct economic advantage (tax incentive), I'm afraid any regular volume of film work that could spur growth just isn't going to happen."

Well, I don't know squat about the film industry. (I was the Operations Manager of Reel Affirmations in Washington, DC for many years, but that hardly qualifies me). But on this issue, it seems you are exactly right. I do have a specialty in innovation and how it works, and how innovative industries can be jumpstarted.

Many people believe that if you force enough meat through a grinder, wonderful sausage will somehow come out the other end. But that never works. The conditions have work so that the economic advantages outweigh any disadvantages. Such an elementary observation, and commonsensical, often escapes people. It almost always escapes any government or institutional people.

So it seems that what you are saying is that the tax incentive, good as they are, are not good enough. This is something that the local cities and county can get around. After all, it isn't like there is so much tax revenue coming from films as it is, so lowering the tax rates on them won't hurt the budget much at all. But if is can help spur an industry, that should be incentive enough to push it through. That is something Tim Clark can and should make a priority. EVeryone wins, and no one loses.

Then it seems a good soundstage would be helpful. $500,000 for a workable soundstage just isn't that much money. (Hey, UB"s new buildings in the med corridor cost much much more). The real cost is the personnel to run and operate it, so the costs keep going higher after it is built. Perhaps a non-profit organization can be formed for the purpose of raising the money and putting it together. Then the rates for rental could be fixed in a way that out of towners are not gouged, thereby making Buffalo more attractive as well.

Surely there are local advertising agencies who could see the benefit of a soundstage, as well as all the other elements of the film, theater, music, educational and entertainment community. If it is multi-purpose (so that it includes a live theater and recording studio), then you can draw upon a larger donor base, and it can be used more frequently, earning a continuous stream of revenue.

With those two elements, then the other issue is the production crews. I don't have many suggestions on that one, but it seems that Chris is right -- once you have enough films being made in Buffalo experience will follow.

replied to santucci.chris
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"So it seems that what you are saying is that the tax incentive, good as they are, are not good enough. This is something that the local cities and county can get around. After all, it isn't like there is so much tax revenue coming from films as it is, so lowering the tax rates on them won't hurt the budget much at all."


I don't believe the tax incentive is necessarily good enough for this end of New York State, no. It seems that all the efforts to incentivize film production in this state are aimed at NYC which has every possible resource available for film production while cities like Buffalo have nearly nothing comparatively.


Some states offer over 40% tax incentive and I believe we need something in that neighborhood in order to attract production, but I'm guessing the powers that be would very much not like to see ANY film production taken away from NYC.


I think if it's to happen for Buffalo, it's not going to be facilitated by government in part because there's no funds for it. If a scalable, multifunctional effort could be instituted using private money (for a stage), I'd say that might have a better and safer chance to be successful, but without the ever important tax incentive that ALL producers look for when considering states to shoot in, we have little to use in attracting significant film production.

replied to Rand503
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I have a question about the tax incentives. Chris, Have you done any kind of study on the inherent benefits that Buffalo has in terms of cost of production that levels the playing field?

(((All things being the same in terms of setting up proper production services, ease of access to equipment (In Rochester or other cities close enough), Post production, background casting, crew, set carpenters, catering, crafty, skilled AD's, PAs, etc... In short all of the people you and I have access to or have worked with in the past being brought in.)))

What I mean by this question is although NYS has only a 30% below the line rebate; it costs far less to film in Buffalo than say NY City, LA, Toronto or even Chicago for that matter.

Wouldn't the lower costs of filming in WNY offset the higher tax incentives of NY City? (I.E. lower Rent costs, filming permits, Labor, ETC...)

Especially with the volatile situation in Michigan where the Governor wants to do away with the 42% rebate in favor of a flat rebate.

replied to santucci.chris
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This is, truly, one of the most extraordinary exchanges I've seen about film and video production in Buffalo and Western New York in the past eight years! There is no irony or sarcasm in that: It's a simple observation that here, for almost the first time, is a passionate and basically optimistic examination of the realities of professional and amateur production in the Greater Buffalo area.

Nothing could be better. (Conflicts, hyperbole, and Ultra-Optimism included!)

Over the past years, our organization has been invited to be involved with no fewer than three serious attempts to form one group or another to galvanize the community into supporting what is clearly a growing interest -- both locally and nationally -- in utilizing the area for locations, pre-production, and post-production. It has become standard for those "serious attempts" to quietly dissolve in a convoluted swirl of good and bad reasons.

It's a genuine pleasure to see such enthusiasm once again.

Rather, than weighing in on one or another issue, let me offer constructively the following support to the community.

Buffalo International Film Festival, Inc. is a fully-registered 501c3, not-for-profit public charity.

Our mission is to support and encourage local film and video production activity, encourage international screenings, put on educational events, and promote Cultural Tourism to the region.

We also have the largest Social Network (Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn et al) of any similar organization in Greater Buffalo. It is our purpose to put it at the service of the community, and we do almost every day. We actively advertise in 164 countries.

We would be happy to help with any of the following:

1) We can act as a "pass through" organization for any group wanting to apply for a grant. (You must be or work with a 501c3 not-for-profit to do that).

2) We are pleased to show films produced in the region at the yearly film festival. (There is still time to enter for the 5th Annual Buffalo International Film Festival in October).

3) You are welcome to contact us in regard to our professional advisers (who are also dedicated to the community) We have a Board of Advisers that includes Academy Award Winners; Emmy Award Winners; Peabody Award Winners; Top-rated Hollywood Producers, Directors, and Screenwriters; best-selling authors and more. These dedicated individuals have worked with us since the inception of the Buffalo International Film Festival with the same goals of bringing economic development and proper recognition to the region.

4) It is also not well-known that the founder of the 48 Hour Film Festival first approached us (before anyone else) to promote the first year of the 48 Hour Festival, which we did. We were pleased to see how well it caught on here and, although our organization has no interest in coordinating the competition, we're always pleased to screen the winners.

5) We are pleased to enter into entirely free (no charge) quid-pro-quo co-sponsorships with movie projects, producers, companies in the commmunity where (depending upon your level of involvement) your activity is promoted all over the world as well as locally.

May I offer a little maxim that we use for The Buffalo Film Festival, It was formulated in response to our experiences over several years of participation in the "process of progress" in Greater Buffalo:

Community, Cooperation, and Collaboration are not four letter words.

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I think the Buffalo Film Fest should move to the new soundstage that you are going to build.

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Baba Booey Baba Booey, Howard Stern's, Baba Booey

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This is just a suggestion by someone living and working towards bringing filming to our city. When I moved back home in 2008 to try to start up production services there in the same mold as what is the norm out here; all I heard from local film professionals was how it COULDN'T be done, with no input as to how it COULD be done.

By myself, with only one assistant, I set up the Production services company a background casting company and sponsorship with folks (Local Businesses not film people) ALL pulling together at the time to help me with my vision. Who were they? Citadel Broadcasting, New Era Hats, 3c Multimedia, Zanger Printing, Kenny Carpet Centers, Channel 4 WIVB, New Buffalo Graphics, Poter Art, Buffalonians.com (Built our Casting site for free), SoHo Bar and several others. Our Attorneys even forgave $1700 in billings to help out. Even with all those people working together the economy was so bad we couldn't continue at the time.

The problem - I was underfunded, plain and simple. I won't make that same mistake again. In 2008 the bottom dropped out on the economy and the few business men who were marginally interested in investing in my ideas, ran for the hills. The ONLY way to get major motion pictures to come there is to bring them from a place where they don't have the nitch situation that is Buffalo and build infrastructure.

Buffalo has several things very few other cities can even come close to providing. It has architecture, the great lakes, beautiful vistas everywhere you look, Niagara Falls in short EVERYTHING a location scout wants to see! The problems - Lack of infrastructure and a properly organized film commission. It was true back then and is STILL the same today. Almost ALL of you realize this. So WHY why can't everyone put aside their petty differences and WORK TOGETHER!! If you all know what the problem is then FIX IT!!

A. Get the idiot Tim Clark fired (REMOVED HIM FROM THE EQUATION) And, get someone in there who knows what he's doing. Get that guy Tim over to the CVB where he belongs and hire a ringer. If enough local directors, crew and producers stand together and call for his dismissal then you have a chance. I've heard from everyone the SAME thing about this guy. Pool your money and get a campaign going to FIX the problem! Hell if a bunch of football fans can take up a collection to put up a billboard sign on the 190 to get a football coach fired, surely we can get a lump of dead flesh removed from a position he shouldn't have had in the first place!!

B. Stop TALKING about things and DO something like Chris Santucci, Peter McGennis and Jerry Hartke have. But STOP doing it SEPARATELY!! I'm sure you all have heard the expression "There's STRENGTH in NUMBERS!" The disparate nature of things in Buffalo MUST STOP. Band together and start supporting the people like Ed Summer (BIFF) and Jerry Hartke who want to set up training seminars for young filmmakers and crew.

C. Bring in people you know who know their jobs. Go to the local colleges and work with the administration to give students credit for interning on your projects. Allow those interested people (who want to learn) to shadow producers like Chris Santucci!! This is what is done here in Los Angeles and EVERY other city where feature filming flourishes.

D. Put together a committee and incorporate it as the filming information hub. This means everyone who has access to equipment and crew needs to get on the same page and combine your resources so that when a film like Henry's Crime or Batman comes to town, they know there are knowledgeable people to talk to about putting things together for them. AND GET TIM OUT OF THERE!!! I hear everyone whining about him but nobody DOES anything.

E. Look into the things that work in the big cities that do major filming and COPY what they do!! This means taking initiative and even a few risks. I messed up a little by not having enough support behind me when I did my first go around. BUT, the things we started back then were correct. I had catering contacts, ways to get post-production dealt with, Trailers, all the laborers AND we even dealt with casting and background casting.

Ask Ed Summer he saw our casting website designed just for Buffalo. We got that designed built and hosted for FREE. Go check out lacasting.com - You'll see what we modeled it after and I'll do it again but this time it will be even better. The hosting company went out of business last year and the site went down but it was done correctly. If the economy hadn't tanked and I had double my initial backing, things might have been different. But that's in the past and we must move forward.

- Like Bruce said in "Die Hard" Stop being a part of the problem and be part of the solution!!

- Instead of lamenting the situation figure out who you need and what you need then ACT!

Best,
Rich McMullen - CEO Buffalonians Productions, LLC

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