City April 9, 2011 5:39 PM

Young Citizens for ECC

Buffalo Rising 23

With the new $30 million health science building funding on hold (Buffalo News), and mounting pressure to locate the building downtown (if and when the funding frees up), Young Citizens for ECC has been formed.

From Young Citizens for ECC:

While we appreciate the support from Chris Collins for a new facility to ECC, we realize that the new Health and Science Building should be built in the Downtown Core of Buffalo. It makes perfect sense to build this in conjunction with UB's medical campus. The Amherst plan is uninspiring and will only generate more traffic along main street. email your thoughts to: youngcitizensforecc@gmail.com

What is ECC thinking? Why should it be downtown?

1. The new medical building should be built in conjunction with the UB2020 medical campus. Think of all the opportunities students could receive?
2. The downtown center of Buffalo is the regional hub for transportation which gives access to all potential students.
3. The downtown ECC campus is a world class facility and deserves this investment.
4. If built in Amherst, it would just create more traffic on main street, in an area where it is not wanted or needed... Buffalo will welcome the traffic with open arms.

These are just a few reasons as to why it makes common sense for ECC to build in our downtown core. We need to let Chris Collins realize that we need an inspiring, 21st century plan for Buffalo - not something from the 1950's!

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Image: Consolidating ECC downtown has been talked about since at least 1997 when the idea was pushed by then State Senator Anthony Nanula and studied by the Gorski administration

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Comments

23 Comments Leave a comment

bernicebuffalove

April 9, 2011 5:52 PM

http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/03/st-vincents-new-lease-on-life.html

Hmm... a charter school built for health and science in the downtown core along with UB's Medical Campus, Roswell, Innovation Center and more... Adding to the ECC Downtown Campus is COMMON SENSE!

Why would we push for UB to move into the city but push ECC out further away from our regional core?

[ Reply ]

Score: 11 ( 17 votes )

KeepItSimple

April 10, 2011 3:35 PM

Plus there are hundreds of thousands of square feet of usable, vacant, commercial space within view of the "Buffalo General Hospital" and "Rosswell Park" signage. Oh, and there's the Statler Building.

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Score: 2 ( 4 votes )

Armchair MBA

April 10, 2011 9:52 PM

Nice to see the state and Peoples lay down some parental supervision on this ill advised project.

Funny that the county likes to use NYS as an excuse for our high taxes when the state were the ones to shut down this waste that our own "conservative" county exec supported.

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Score: 0 ( 4 votes )

whatever

April 11, 2011 7:15 PM

Arm>"Nice to see the state and Peoples lay down some parental supervision on this ill advised project."

The state and Peoples? Reportedly it was blocked only due to Peoples opposing it and a pause in capital spending across the state. Is there any evidence the "state" is against the concept of a new building at ECC North? I doubt it.

At some point, Crystal Peoples might want cooperation from other legislators for one of her wasteful spending ideas (maybe something as useful as her pet project for more millions of public $ given to the Buffalo Hyatt's multimillionaire owners), and suddenly her blocking of this ECC building could disappear as fast as it appeared.

Meanwhile, at least it's good that the state and county aren't spending this money. So far, Cuomo is governing more like a rightwing teabagger Repuke than a WFP lefty. Hopefully he'll continue this way. We'll see.

In the long run, I predict disappointment for anybody who thinks ECC North won't eventually get new buildings, or that it will shut down during any of our lifetimes in favor of downtown. Won't happen. Comments from longgone and nickinthebox explain why.

Arm>"NYS as an excuse for our high taxes when the state were the ones to shut down ones to shut down this waste"

How can it be an "excuse", when NYS mandates roughly 90% or more of spending in Erie Co (and other counties)?
So NYS mandates 90% of the $1.5B Erie Co budget but gets hooray from you for stopping, probably temporarily, the county from spending 7.5M? (around one half of 1% of $1.5B?) Really?

Collins isn't as fiscally conservative as I'd prefer, but he's better that way than his R predecessor and his current adversaries on the D side.

[ Reply ]

replied to Armchair MBA

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

qbert

April 11, 2011 5:12 AM

It is simple. ECC must be built in the city. This is the one chance we get to undo the devastating mistakes that were made with UB. Let's not let fear win over reality in something this important. ECC does not belong in the 'burbs, it simply belongs in the city.

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Score: -1 ( 3 votes )

Travelrrr

April 11, 2011 6:50 AM

Wouldn't it be great if Elm/Oak actually did look like the photo above? It is a tremendously unattractive area/port-of entry and exit into our city.

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Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

BuffaloHead

April 11, 2011 8:56 AM

Anyone who can drive to the ECC Campus can probably drive to the Genessee Campus in Batavia or the NCC Campus in Niagara County.

The North Campus should be sold and the money invested in expanding the downtown campus eastward, put back the street grid and get rid of that aweful municipal housing.

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Score: -2 ( 4 votes )

PeytonsCorner

April 11, 2011 2:26 PM

Chris you are awesome... Jack Quinn you are awesome...

I really think that the Amherst location is the perpetuation of the historic mistake that located UB in the same place. I am hopeful that both of you reconsider the logic of this decision. How does a major public investment outside of our burgeoning City Center make sense?

Repeat after me now...Higher Edjucation, Jobs, Buffalo... Higher Edjucation, Jobs, Buffalo...

[ Reply ]

Score: 1 ( 5 votes )

F-Agate

April 11, 2011 5:51 PM

Why is Amherst such a mistake?

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replied to PeytonsCorner

Score: 1 ( 1 votes )

longgone

April 11, 2011 2:44 PM

Like it or not, Erie County Community College is for the benefit of Erie County not the City of Buffalo.

Has anyone on the Young Citizens for ECC even looked at the demographics of where students live? Of course not. Because it would show why the new building is being located at the North Campus.

Has anyone on the Young Citizens for ECC gotten a quote from ANYONE representing the Town of Amherst that the additional traffic is not wanted? Of course not. Because there is not a citation from anyone representing the TOA to be had.

While there would be a benefit to having the new Health and Science Building located near the ever expanding medical campus, that is not the only factor to consider.

For starters, this would create 4 campuses because the medical campus location is not the same as downtown. Added to that, you would have to allow for parking, which is not the case for ECC North. Just what does a parking ramp add to the bottom line of the project.

Lastly, it's comical to hear that residents of Erie County in the towns of Amherst, Clarence, Cheektowaga and Lancaster...which makes up over 1/3 of the population of ERIE COUNTY should be forced to drive to Batavia or Niagara County so that the COB can use school construction as a way to eliminate blight.

Furthermore, on the silly idea of selling ECC North...just what do you think would happen with that land? Do you think the TOA is going to convert it to farms? No. It would either be converted to a massive subdivision on the outskirts of the very desirable Village of Williamsville or converted to a massive office park. Either of which would draw from the COB to fill.

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Score: -3 ( 9 votes )

bernicebuffalove

April 11, 2011 4:39 PM

Couple things to point out:

31.4 percent of the city of Buffalo does not have a car. This creates a big burden for the students who are trying to get up to the suburban campuses (North or South) who cannot afford a car but desire to attend college.

With that said, the downtown campus has some seriously amazing access for all students - 3 major interstate highways (for the suburban commuters), approx 32 bus lines that feed into downtown, 32,730 parking spots (for the commuters), 1 metro rail that runs every 20 minutes. The access is there for ALL students.

Please keep in mind that your typical college student, including ECC, usually cannot afford reliable transportation. ECC provides bus passes to its students for a very low fee because of this reason. Buffalo State does this also.

Additionally, this would not be a 4th campus, having the health and science building built downtown around the existing campus is all that is needed. Believe it or not, its maybe a ten minute walk to the innovation center, BNMC and more. ECC owns a one story bunker that is 4 times the size of what they are want for this building - they need to consider renovating that space, building up and creating density and maybe, just maybe, there would even be space for a parking lot next to the new, building (to satisfy the commuters). There is also a parking lot that ECC owns that deserves attention and could be used for this building.

Also, we are a group of young, emerging professionals that are trying to stand up for what ECC deserves.We may not have all the answers but this isnt about politics or money, Downtown Buffalo is where we want to be and the Downtown campus is at the doorstep of the BNMC, making this an easy arguement.

[ Reply ]

replied to longgone

Score: 0 ( 4 votes )

longgone

April 11, 2011 5:14 PM

I understand that people in the city do not have a car but how many of those are students? How many are ECC students? Also to note, again, this is not Buffalo Community College...it's Erie County Community College.

Added to this, ECC North is right off Main St. Public transportation is very easy to access the site. It may not be the shortest trip for someone in the city...but this is a county entity.

Do you have any data to back up your claim that a typical community college student cannot afford reliable transportation? Or are we just making claims that support your opinion. Similar to the claim that Amherst does not want the traffic in relation to the ECC expansion?

How many people are in your group? How many are ECC students? Have you taken a survey of current ECC students to gain data on what they want?

It looks to me like your group is a collection, regardless of size, of city centric folks? Your group is presenting no data to support your opinion. That is fine but ECC is not a collection of city residents or even city students. It's a collection of students from the region. A region where alost 70% of the population DOES NOT live in the City of Buffalo.

If your desire is to be professionals, you should learn that data to backup an idea is often more important than the idea itself.

As I said before, there are some benefits to locating the new Health and Science Building located near the ever expanding medical campus. But there are many considerations for location and it appears to me that your group has little desire to explore all of these considerations and present a balanced argument.

If you were doing this, you would list the benefits of having this complex built at ECC North but presenting them along side the benefits for locating downtown and illustrating to the general population (read Erie County residents as a whole) that when all things are considered, the COB is the right location.

As for what Chris Collins is thinking, I would guess he is thinking of how he can best represent the entire county, who he works for, not a select few city residents with an agenda..but I could be wrong.

[ Reply ]

replied to bernicebuffalove

Score: 1 ( 5 votes )

nickinthebox

April 11, 2011 5:50 PM

Couldn't possibly agree more. See the other threads for all of my viewpoints. I wonder if anyone in this Young Citizens for ECC are actually ECC students, because I surely don't see anyone on campus causing any uproar.

[ Reply ]

replied to longgone

Score: 0 ( 2 votes )

bernicebuffalove

April 11, 2011 6:26 PM

Clearly you are a shill for ECC. Here is the deal. The Young Citizens for ECC is a diverse and growing regional group that wants to encourage Buffalo to stop making obvious mistakes.

Considering we have been formed for 3 days now, we already have a 75 person group that consists of ECC students, ECC alum, UB students, Buffalo State students, multiple politicians, government officials and even general Buffalo advocates. We have also received many letters showing support to help fight this cause. Obviously this is a topic that deserves some attention.

Here is a good fact for you:

OTHER STATISTICS FOR ERIE COMMUNITY COLLEGE: 2008 TOTAL
Percent of Minority Students 23.9%
Percent of Hispanic Students 3.6%
Percent Getting Some Financial Aid 81%
Percent Getting Federal Grants 49%
Avg. Amount Federal Grants $3,092
Avg. Amount Local and State Grants $1,533
Percent Getting Institutional Grants 0%
Avg Amount of Institutional Grants $0
Avg. Amount of Student Loan $2,505

Clearly if 81% of the students are receiving some sort of financial aid, there is a need to consider low income students who need easy access back and forth to school and work using public transit.
Also, considering that Amherst has a medium income of 67,305 dollars and 93.7 % of Amherst has access to a car, we have to argue that perhaps its the Amherst kids that can afford to travel to Downtown. We can also argue that this creates a big disadvantage for the lower income classes within the region who cannot afford to the rising costs of owning an automobile.

Should I continue to talk about the hours spent on a bus and how if these students were working, they could actually earn more money? Or even consider talking about how in five years when gas is $7 dollars a gallon, we would have wished we spent our money on a building that is not dependent on a car? Do I dare mention the dreaded "sustainability" word and why we should be thinking about how the future generations will be paying for our stupid mistakes? How about the fact that NCCC is building a DOWNTOWN campus in Niagara Falls in response to their students needs and progressive thinking from the mayor?

BTW, Thank you for your advice on gathering detailed information. Your advice has clearly helped my argument.

[ Reply ]

replied to longgone

Score: 4 ( 6 votes )

Travelrrr

April 11, 2011 8:10 PM

Good, sound argument Bernice. I am hopeful for our future if you are representative of young, budding professionals.

[ Reply ]

replied to bernicebuffalove

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

F-Agate

April 11, 2011 5:49 PM

42.7% of Buffalo High School students drop out and won't be eligible to attend ECC in the city or the suburbs. Only 17% of the remaining 57.3% will go on to college. So let's not get too hysterical or hypothetical when it comes to building in the city. Fix the high school success rate then we can talk about the need to build a campus that caters to city residents.

[ Reply ]

replied to bernicebuffalove

Score: 1 ( 5 votes )

reflip

April 11, 2011 9:34 PM

This post is just absurd. Just because the building is (theoretically) built in the city does not mean it is FOR city residents only. It's for everyone. I fail to see why some people here are so adamantly opposed to building this facility in downtown Buffalo. If this building is put on ECC North Campus, I'm thinking that the vast majority of ECC students, even those who live in Amherst already, will have to drive there to attend classes. I've seen ECC North Campus and it is not really within walking distance of most Amherst residents. But everyone else who doesn't live within walking distance of this campus MUST drive there. So what's the big deal about building it downtown? Everyone has to drive there anyway. At least downtown is accessible to students without cars, no matter where they live.

Putting this building in Amherst only makes it completely inaccessible to students without cars, whether they live in Amherst, Buffalo, West Seneca, or anywhere else in Erie County. Just to be clear - you enthusiastically support that proposition?

[ Reply ]

replied to F-Agate

Score: 2 ( 4 votes )

F-Agate

April 12, 2011 5:56 AM

There is nothing wrong with building it in Amherst or in Buffalo. It is a judgment call. I don't appreciate the hyperbole that building it in Amherst will make it "completely inaccessible" to those without cars. Your position is purely emotional and based solely on your irrational disgust for Amherst and your feeling that it somehow is inferior to the city. If you read my comment again and you'll find that it doesn't say anything about building in Amherst. It was a condemnation of the city's failing high schools. You took that as a personal affront and starting spewing your emotionally charged anti-suburb bullshit. Grow up Reflip, grow the fu$k up!

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replied to reflip

Score: 0 ( 2 votes )

reflip

April 12, 2011 8:18 AM

There was nothing emotional and nothing anti-suburb about my post. Try again.

[ Reply ]

replied to F-Agate

Score: -1 ( 1 votes )

reflip

April 11, 2011 9:13 PM

"Like it or not, Erie County Community College is for the benefit of Erie County not the City of Buffalo."

The City of Buffalo is part of Erie County, just like Amherst and Orchard Park. Are you saying that if this were to be built in Buffalo it would not benefit all residents of Erie County, only residents of Buffalo? If so, can you explain why? Because that makes no sense to me.

Further, if you are arguing that this new ECC building should benefit all residents of Erie County, then I fail to see how building it in the north-eastern-most corner of the county is beneficial to everyone (for example, everyone who doesn't live in Amherst - or, a significant majority of the population of Erie County).

[ Reply ]

replied to longgone

Score: 0 ( 2 votes )

Greg

April 12, 2011 9:48 AM

I think the more constructive argument is that the City Campus is naturally most accessible to everyone of Erie County. Downtown has excellent transportation connections that no other area in the entire Metropolitan area has.

Being from the Southtowns, I drive to UB North Campus with a 70 mi round trip.

The motivation to build at ECC North Campus doesn't make sense. You're ignoring geographically and demographically at least 1/3 of the population for "competition." And I put it in quotes because we're competing against another county in our own Metro. That's like the Amherst's development agency stealing business from Cheektowaga. It sounds stupid.

If you want to be competitive, don't fight the small battle against NCCC. Fight the bigger battle of being the top community college in the state. You're not going to accomplish that by building in Amherst. You're going to do it by integrating with an established Medical Corridor such as the BNMC.

[ Reply ]

replied to reflip

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )

grad94

April 11, 2011 8:33 PM

props to you young citizens for ecc and your allies! rock on!

[ Reply ]

Score: 1 ( 3 votes )

longgone

April 12, 2011 10:21 AM

@bernicebuffalove

Starting off your post with the claim that someone who does not agree with your view is 'Clearly you are a shill for ECC' simply makes you look a like a petulant child.

Good luck with your protest.

@reflip

As mentioned before, there are some undeniable benefits to locating the new building downtown. However, there are many variables to consider for the location of this building. As par for the course on BRO, most are only considering what elements benefit the armchair developers playing SimCity with the 'rebirth' of Buffalo.

What is the cost difference between the two sites? I know they are not equal. Land acquisition for the medical campus is much more expensive than on the North Campus.

What does the student body look like? Where are they from in the region? That NE corner of the county holds 1/3 of the county population and the region is still trending UP.

Your claim that putting the building on the North campus makes the building completely inaccessible to those without a car is BS. It does take longer for places in the city, but it's is not completely inaccessible. You should learn that 5min on google makes it pretty easy to call out BS.

I took a random address (3 Coburg St, Buffalo, NY 14216) in North Buffalo and charted public transit to both the Medical Campus (91 Carlton Street, Buffalo, NY) and ECC North (6205 Main Street, Williamsville, NY)...the time to the medical campus is 42 minutes. The time to ECC North is 49 minutes. From a East Side location (128 Sumner Place) and did the same trip. 32 min to the Medical Campus and 1hr to ECC North. From a South Buffalo (89 Dundee Street, Buffalo, NY) you have 1hr 58min to ECC North and 51 Min to the Medical Campus.

So what you are talking about is convenience and preference not access. Which is completely different. Since the conversation is about convenience and preference, you have to consider all students, not just the ones without a car or the ones who live in the city. You have to consider the preferences of all in Erie County.

Anyways...complain all you want...post BS claims to try and feel better but at the end of the day, when constructed..it's going to be on the North Campus.

[ Reply ]

Score: 0 ( 0 votes )