City February 14, 2011 2:23 PM

Increase Metro Rail runs during peak weekend times... please.

Increase Metro Rail runs during peak weekend times... please.
Submission by Derek Kelly:

I was walking back to my car from the Powder Keg Festival and got very irritated about the state of Main Street. I recently moved my best friend to Denver and spent time on their 16th street. The thing I payed most attention to is how easy it was to travel on that street. I feel the main reason why Main Street does not prosper is because there is no traffic. Just like Denver our Main Street is closed off to traffic, but the difference is how long it takes for one to get a mode of transportation to get from point A to point B.

I know they are in the process of returning traffic to Main Street, but that requires time and a lot of money. I feel the easy fix would be to copy Denver and have several (4-6) buses constantly make a circuit from the tunnel entrance to the arena all day, including the trains. For restaurants to survive, they need the irregular traffic to be there and as of now there is zero of that. Main street has the atmosphere of a city, way more than any other street in Buffalo, they just need the traffic that will bring the restaurants and shops.

I would be interested in creating a "group" or something to look into this option. This is an option that could literally happen next month if people fought for it. I am still learning how to become a leader to do things that benefit Buffalo. I could be totally wrong with this but really feel that if there is a constant flow of traffic and it is easy to get around on Main Street, then retail and food would go down there quickly. The only way to get around there is to walk more or less. For example, I walked from the Powder Keg Festival to the Market Arcade theater without a single train passing me on either side. That's on a weekend evening during a festival... something is wrong with that. If there was a free mode of transportation down there that came around every few minutes or so, Main Street would become the best street for people to get up and down the downtown corridor.

*A walk from the Powder Keg Festival to the Theater District is under 20 minutes
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Well, the trains run every 20 minutes on Sunday evenings. Be glad that the new schedule restructuring has the trains running until midnight on Sundays - prior to November they used to stop running at 6 PM.

Score: 9 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Ironically it also stuck me on Sunday that the trains were not more frequent with everything going on. I didn't exactly time the trains, but I live on Main Street and have a pretty good sense of the train schedules (ding ding ding ding).

Another issue with the current system is that there is no location based technology built into the system. The signs should at least indicate when the next train is due to arrive or offer an interactive map on the NFTA website displaying where buses/trains are located. Heck, my phone can do this for free via GPS! Perhaps this will be built into the refurb trains hitting the system.

Lastly, the NFTA needs to figure out a way to accept credit cards again. Again, if my PHONE can accept credit cards securely with a card reader attachment why will it cost the NFTA $200,000 (or whatever it was) to outfit their systems?

Score: 9 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Yea I hear ya! GPS systems are being tested in NYC. Id like us for once to be ahead of the curve. It seems like a no brainer. GPS means that for the people who don't use the NFTA daily, it gives them much more convenience to use the system.

replied to SadLlama
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This might be 1 of many (and I mean many) reasons Main St. is in shambles. I am not about to waste my time proving my Planning degree on this, I know someone will, but one of the major issues with Main St. is the negative stereotypes about certain areas in the city.

Main St. IS the major divider of the city, and people view it that way. I do believe certain sections of Main St., that have racially/ethnically mixed neighborhoods, have a chance to revive it as a walkable, safe, neighborhood (because the negative stereotypes are more diluted there. (South Campus, Parkside (by CPG), and possibly near Allentown.)

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Im not sure that Metro rail's presence has as much to do w/ the current condition of Main as people like to think. There are lots of once vital shopping and living districts throughout the region that have fallen on hard times, not just on Main.

The only difference between Main, and, say, Broadway is that the lack of auto access has preserved most of the buildings along the rail ROW.

replied to Liberty10
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The city needs to be stricker on slum lords who own many of the crumbling buildings (400 & 500 Block of Main St.) Business owners (many family owned) can also help by staying open later than lunch time, and after 5pm and on a weekend in general. If one goes downtown beyond the weekday lunch hours and finds it deserted WHY RETURN???? It'll take more than just increased rail and bus's to make downtown more alive. Building owners, business owners, developers, the city, Buffalo Place and others need to step up and clean up downtown, make it more attractive, market, give breaks for new businesses (office, retail, restaurants) to move in. STOP with the first floor office spaces. That adds nothing but more blank walls and empty sidewalks on off times.
Did anyone else hear the rumor that the Food and Drug Administrative was taking over Theatre Place Building (which is why Melanie's Sweets moved out and soon, Sue's Deli) for more first floor office space. DOES THIS MAKE ANY SCENSE considering the location? The Theatre district should be a year round attraction with theme restaurants, cool retail stores, gift shops, out door entertainment, moveable ads, lights and so on. NOT a boring office block that is a complete ghost town on any give day and night except for when Shea's has an event.....

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couldnt agree more lego

the city actually has this problem, not just on main but all over the city (elmwood, west side, UB south etc). these people dont take care of properties and have the bankroll to take a total loss on it

if buffalo can successfully stand up reliable and useful public transit, than it can go from being a really big suburb to an actual city

replied to Lego1981
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Actually a small suburb in comparison to those around NYC or the large growing texas cities.

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I completely agree. I have been saying this for a while. I believe there are two major factors affecting the failure or rather success of Main Street. One is vehicle traffic. By not allowing cars you automatically cut out a very large amount of potential business via random drive-by traffic. If you drive in the city you tend to notice where the action is and that leads to patronizing those businesses. For those that only drive, if you can’t drive by a business you may never know it’s even there.

The other factor is that the few businesses and restaurants that are located on Main Street are not open late enough for people to patronize after work hours. I live downtown but work in Clarence. I would love to be able to walk over to Main Street and do my shopping or grab a bite to eat after work but there is very little open for me to do so. So I am forced to go to Elmwood or Allen or Galleria.

I believe that if more businesses took the plunge and stayed open late it would start a trend. If they can show people there is life on Main street after 5pm and on weekends, more people would recognize Main street as a destination when looking for something to do. Currently I don’t even consider it.

replied to Lego1981
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How about a vast increase in street lighting along the corridor as well? The corridor is way too dark after hours.

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I really like how you made a comparison with another city and downtown and how you focused more on issue of ease of use and good urban design contributes to higher use of transit and viable central business districts. And, good forward thinking prior to introducing transit changes makes a big difference. This was something that really struck me moving from downtown portland oregon to Buffalo. Other considerations are partnerships between the businesses affected by public transit and the transit authority. Plus building into the transit system ease of use between transit and alternative modes of travel such as biking and walking. And, when each group actively dialogues with the goal of joint problem solving, the impact on the city and region benefits everybody.

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I'm not sure that adding vehicles of any sort would do much. In fact, businesses would probably get MORE interaction from people walking past their front door than whizzing by in a car, bus or train. Right now, the problem is that there isn't enough active commerce on Main St to keep pedestrians engaged. It's a street to get THROUGH, without enough destinations to stop AT.

That said, 20 minutes IS a bit of a long wait for a train if you only need to go 5-10 blocks.

But a short walk or wait would be much more tolerable if there was something other than empty storefronts to view along the way. Think of it this way: if you had to travel the same distance on Elmwood, would you stand and wait even 10 minutes for a free shuttle, or would you walk instead and window-shop along the way?

Score: 7 ( 11 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

"if you had to travel the same distance on Elmwood"

Good point.

And if car traffic was ever banned on Elmwood the way it was in downtown Main St, I'd predict after a few years there'd no longer be anywhere near as many businesses to window-shop on Elmwood either.

Although car traffic won't guarantee a healthy business district in Buffalo (there's plenty of examples to the contrary), it is one important factor among several.
I think lack of allowing car traffic in Buffalo pretty much guarantees, at best, a struggling street-level business environment on any block. We'll see if the 500-block can prove me wrong about that until or unless car traffic is returned there too.

replied to DeanerPPX
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Agreed. There are examples of outdoor shopping districts without direct car access all over this country. Many have failed, some have succeeded, and the necessary ingredients for success are easy to spot: a high density office/retail/residential balance that allows the street to remain animated during all different hours of the day. That's just not how I would describe the 400-500 blocks of Main. These blocks need to pull in people from outside the immediately surrounding blocks, which means people from other areas need to be able to see what they're missing, which means they need to be able to drive down the street. I say all this as a person who takes public transportation every day and hasn't driven in a decade. It's just a necessary evil for the area at this time.

replied to whatever
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Your right Main St. main problem is image. Cars will help change the image, but it will take more investments to change the image.

I get so aggrivated when people simply state that the removal of car traffic is the reason why Main St. is in a failed state. There were much larger head winds blowing at Main St businesses that made them close. If cars were the only issue then why didn't they just move their stores to another location downtown?

replied to DeanerPPX
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I respectfully disagree. The bottom line is that this is an auto bound region / city and always will be which is fine. I live downtown and still drive up & down Elmwood. The thing about driving up & down Elmwood is that I tend to notice more stores, restaurants, people, action, etc in general. That makes me want to park and get out and walk around. Think about how many people drive up and down Elmwood on any given day. You are effectively advertising everything that’s going on to people who might not ever see it if they could only walk on Elmwood. Basically, by Main Street being car-less, you are forcing people to bypass that stretch completely and consequently they do not have any reason to walk that area. That contributes to failing businesses because you are automatically cutting out a large amount of potential business via drive-by traffic.

replied to DeanerPPX
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I agree, I can't remember when but a few years ago (maybe 10 now) they made any one-ways go onto Elmwood. Doesn't seem to have hurt, in fact I think it helped.

replied to brownteeth
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you're all missing the point!!!

the fact that we are surrendering to the car on main is an issue - it is not a solution, its a band aid

the biggest goal should be to build infrustructre in Buffalo such that access to public transit and lack of access by the auto helps buffalo and the surrounding real estate, business, etc like in a real city

if we keep moving in the other direction and do everything for cars (getting rid of light rail, make more parking lots, etc) thigns are going to get worse

you people are all thinking just liek sedita, saperston and all of those other idiots in the 50's

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>the biggest goal should be to build infrustructre in Buffalo such that access to public transit and lack of access by the auto helps buffalo and the surrounding real estate, business, etc like in a real city

So how do we do that? Where are we supposed to get the money for that? Are you arguing that we should restrict access by cars from the city? The major means of tranportation here in this region? Do you think that that'll do anything other than drive another nail in the city's coffin?
I'm not arguing that cars are the best means to get around from an environmental and social perspective, but unfortunately that decision was made decades ago as a society. And what real cities are you talking about? You're not going to try to compare Buffalo to another major world city or NYC, are you? Or were you thinking of cities like Atlanta or Miami, where people get around primarily by car like they do here.

>you people are all thinking just liek sedita, saperston and all of those other idiots in the 50's
Well, hindsight is 20/20. It's a lot easier to point fingers now, but who's to say that future generations won't marvel at how dumb we were?

Score: 1 ( 9 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Having lived in Miami for 5 years, and Atlanta for 10... I'll agree that both cities are extremely car-centric, more so than most major urban centers. But in BOTH cities, some of the most vibrant areas and neighborhoods are exactly the ones that have restricted automobile access (Miami Beach, Bayside, East Atlanta Village, Underground Atlanta, etc).

Yes, this is America and our economy would grind to a halt if we outlawed the car. But there is a tipping point where auto access becomes a hinderance to growth. With the exception of drive-thru fast food, most transactions occur on foot. It's going to be important for the foreseeable future to keep auto access /nearby/, but keep Main Street as pedestrian-friendly and transit-accessible as possible. At the very least, it will be important to ensure that auto access on Main doesn't hijack the human-scale potential that is slowly beginning to emerge.

replied to pampiniform
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Usually mass transit is precipitated by traffic or parking being too much. Mass Transit should get you the place that you are going faster and more cost effectively than car. In Buffalo it is extremely difficult to do because we have such good automotive infrastructure. (It is too good)

Leaving the car behind will not happen unless Buffalo were to double size and make it impossible to drive and park. I don't forsee this happening anytime soon, so we should embrace both car and mass transit.

I think the plan for Main St is a correct one, hopefully it will work and the city can work to employ what they have learned to the other arteries of the city.

Car, Bus, Bike...

It would be very cool if Buffalo could do something outside the box and lead the way with natural gas busses or something like that. Or a low cost hydro-electric bus system powered by the power project. Buses have pretty regular route where you could outfit it with batteries that would last long enough for a run or two.

replied to DeanerPPX
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A quick solution should be to add a bus route on the Metro ROW of Main Street. Cut stops down to about 10 minutes apart along the Central Business District because of the combined Rail and Bus use. Keep this a free zone like the metro rail. This strategy of increased frequency is employed in Curtiba, Brazil, a city known for its great mass transit.

Nothing against cars, but it's worth seeing the response to higher frequency mass transit as a way to ease in personal vehicular traffic.

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Re: Shuttle bus service to supplement the rail - At one time, there was such a mini-bus service during the weekday to ferry people to the parking lots at the foot of Main. Does this service still operate? If so, could it be expanded to include weekends and evenings? If not, why did it fail? I believe the service was provided by Buffalo Place, not the NFTA.

Re: Location-based technology - Over ten years ago, NFTA started printing numbers on every single bus stop sign, along with a phone number. It didn't tell you exactly where the bus WAS at that moment (the buses were just in the process of upgrading to that technology), but a relatively easy phone call would let you know when the next bus was SCHEDULED to pass, as well as give you transfer/travel time information to your destination. A decade on, has this service failed to evolve? And how could it have been neglected to include the rail? Buffalo has a relatively admirable public transportation for a city of its size, but I'd call it a major fail if they can't broadcast wait times on those LED signs.

Re: The shuttering of Main St - The decline of downtown retail began long before traffic was ended. I think it's still a chicken-egg question whether one had anything to do with the other, or whether bringing it back will solve any issues or make them worse. Pennsylvania offers tax breaks to both residences and businesses located on public transit lines. It's not much, but it helps bring up property values and reduce costs for homes and businesses that locate in accessible areas.

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Quick point of order, running a shuttle bus on Main is quite likely just as expensive as running a LRV - if not more.

After all, infrastructure is already built. The catenary is electrified. The stations are staffed. The LRVs (whose lifespan is significantly longer than a bus) are available. My first response would be to add capacity by reducing the times between trains, with one caveat:

Is anybody sure its warranted? 20 minutes btwn trips is actually not too bad, particularly on a Sunday.

That said, sure, the NFTA should have foreseen the increased demand and added extras for this wknd, but they didnt - this time. Just like the the Festival learned from last year, it will be important to ensure lessons are taken away to better serve the community. Of course follow up is needed.

However, needlessly adding to Metro Bus and Rail's operating costs by operating the route at overcapacity without sound economic justification isnt good for anyone.

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Fair point for sure with the longevity of the rail cars and the lack of economic justifications. However, I think there leaves something to be said though what the cost is to shift a bus to Main street on the weekends as a test run. Would demand increase with faster service? Plus, adding a bus to main Street is much cheaper to test out than getting another rail car. Obviously, if there was a positive response to demand with greater efficiency, a rail car would be more justifiable.

replied to al labruna
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@Greg,

Greg said: "Plus, adding a bus to main Street is much cheaper to test out than getting another rail car"

For reasons I previously outlined, I dont know that is actually true. Im not sure that it isnt, either. I would caution against selecting an appropriate vehicle prematurely.

replied to Greg
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I'm saying to shift a current bus in stock to Main street on the weekends. This costs gas and a driver period. This is just to test out. I'm not saying to buy a shuttle. That would be a waste.

Use what we have and shift it on to Main Street. It's as simple as it can possibly be. Just pay a driver and make a right or left onto Main. A Bus can turn off Main before hitting the end of the above ground Metro line.

If there is a positive response to increase frequency, then maybe the NFTA could pursue something permanent.

replied to al labruna
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The costs are driver, gas, and vehicle wear. Gas cost are variable. But vehicle wear is where the hidden costs are: The serviceable life of a city bus is a fraction of the serviceable life of a railed vehicle. You dont see too many old buses out there, but there are many examples of railed vehicles running well after the half century mark.

Buses can have higher operating costs, particularly if rail's peripherals are already paid for (shops/stations/power).

Additionally, Main street is signaled for railed vehicles, not bus traffic. As a LRV moves along the route, it triggers signal changes to allow it to move unimpeded. At best, new traffic controls could allow buses to wait for lights to change (at a slower pace). Otherwise, it could be impossible to alter without major and expensive changes to the route.

Its not all that straightforward. So dont get all hung up on vehicle type.

You think more frequency is warranted. Great.

Ill be the first one to back a study to verify your thoughts. Or even to go ahead and test out expanded service, and see what happens. Sure try it. Evaluate it. Implement or repeal it. Just be sure to understand all of the variables beforehand.

replied to Greg
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the problem is not in the money, it is in the planning

people might fail to recognize it, but there is a grocerty store downtown (washington market), restaurants, coffee shops, wine bars (essentially all the thigns to reign in the professionals)

however, all of the dead, open space and the fact that the residential units are spread out makes it hard to build critical mass. if the city built a strategic critical mass and aligned public transit, than this would fall into place pretty quckly

unfortunately, the city is very reactionary and they dont pursue these things, they just wait for developers to grab property and beg for subsidies

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Paid instead of payed? At least give it a read-over before posting.

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Derek,

For the Powder Keg Fest and other such events, increasing rail service much as they do for some hockey games and concerts might not be a huge ask.

In general, I agree that it's a shame to have a rail system that runs less often than some of the bus lines. However most of the time when I think that I'm either stuck underground in one of the stations or it's 10 degrees in the theater district.

In nicer weather, I have to play devil's advocate here and say that in terms of a vibrant urban environment, it's better to have people walking or biking for an extra 10 minutes and actually interacting with each other on the street than saving time by sitting and shuttling past in a tube.

My ask would be increased frequency of service in the winter only and for special events.

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Perhaps an additional rail car that only runs between Events/Harbor and the Allen station (going belowground would be necessary because of the location of the switchback). Running this additional car in 10 minute increments between the full-route train would allow it to 'sit' at the Allen station to wait for its return trip, while also providing riders with a slightly more enclosed waiting area if they need to transfer to the full-route northbound train.

The obvious downside is that it would not generate any fares for NFTA. The convenience for riders and businesses during inclement weather would be a nice gesture, however. Especially since it would most likely only be needed on weekends and evenings, and perhaps for only a few months of the year.

Atlanta's MARTA trains perform a similar maneuver on its east-west line. Ridership is highest for the 4-5 stations nearest downtown, but significantly lower at either end of the line. They run a full train of 3-4 cars for the full line, interspersed with a single car that only travels the busy central section. The two north-south lines share the downtown tracks, alternating between the two endpoints so that the most heavily used stations get twice as many trains (you just need to watch the signs if you intend to travel beyond this zone).

The CRTC suggested a similar alignment if NFTA ever expands the system (we can hope, lol). Between the Events station and LaSalle, an Orchard Park - Amherst line would share the same tracks as the Lackawanna - Tonawanda line. This would mean a 20-30 minute wait in the outlying areas, but only 10-15 minutes if you're downtown.

replied to creighton
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but NFTA DID in fact increase rail service as well as provide a shuttle to the different events.

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I guess my original point was misunderstood. I know there is a metro rail service already in place that runs about every 15 min for the entire line. That is good. My request is for about a 1-2 mile stretch from the Medical Corridor(Anchor Bar) to HSBC. Along this route, have rough;y 4 buses make a continuous route for all the hours that the rail runs, to complement the rail service. This will cut the twenty minutes into closer to 5 for that highly populated two mile stretch. It will increase traffic flow on Main st. It will encourage employees or visitors of the medical district to use the service to get to downtown for lunch or dinner easier. I understand that there is little business on Main, but there is a lot directly off of Main. This is an artery that is hard to travel down and it sees a train on either side every 20 min. Every 20 min elmwood probably sees, hundreds of cars, hundreds of walkers, and countless buses travel through, and don't forget about the bikers. Elmwood is an example but I would say the same for Delaware, Grant, Hertel... If someone wants to stick up for the current state of Main street, that's fine but I actually want to see Main street look how it once used to; full of shops and restaurants. This is a quick fix that could be planned out in a matter of months. I planned it out in the 20 minutes it took me to walk back to my car. This option does not need cars on Main street, and will bring potentially more people to the doorsteps of any potential business. I just don't see how this is a bad option

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I assume now you are talking about weekdays (as on wknd and evenings downtown isnt really that "highly populated").

During the work week, train frequency is much higher. Metro rail runs in 10 and 12 minute intervals until after 6 pm. And then in 15 min intervals after 830. Additionally, parallel streets provide additional bus service. There isnt another route in the city that sees that kind of service level.

Further, (and again) Im not sure that bus service is a cost effective way to add capacity. Since boarding can also be slower, it may actually slow the entire system down.

replied to bufwego
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The parallel service is an extremely good point. Sure, you might wait 20 minutes for a train on main... but if your sorry butt can't walk half a block to Pearl or Washington where there are 10-15 bus lines continuously running in the direction you want to go... well, then public transit is never going to be the answer to your problems.

Admittedly, those bus lines will charge you full fare even if you only want to travel three blocks... but seriously... if that's your problem, I'd complain to the McDonalds drive-thru police, not the NFTA.

replied to al labruna
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20 minutes for a Sunday afternoon is quite good service. I've waited for 30 minutes for a train on a workday in NYC before.

I agree maybe they could have done something a little more for the Powderkeg festival but at 20 minute increments all day, it is really easy to plan: a train leaves at 4:00, 4:20, 4:40, 5:00, 5:20, 5:40 etc... And who can't kill another 10 minute at Pearl Street waiting.

The problem is people don't want to plan anything. They just want to show up and be serviced immediately right then and there. It is the instant gratification generation. Which is fine for some things but transit is a system for everyone.

As for the GPS point... that would be the solution not just to satisfy the instant gratification crowd but would also go a long way for problem mitigation. If you are not sure you got to your stop on time, it would help. If a bus broke down, it would help, if it is running hot or late, it would help inform people. All the new buses have GPS in them that the controllers at NFTA use to make sure everyone is where they are supposed to be...

The trick, which some clever programmer can probably figure out, is how to publish that information in a way that is accessible on mobile devices. Heck, even a screenshot saved as a JPG and updated every 30 seconds would be a good start...

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Two things: The powder Keg has nothing to do with this argument. And other cities are doing things so you don't have to wait twenty minutes. These are cities that plan for people and money to be infiltrated into a certain area. (aka 16th st of Denver) Why can't Buffalo do the same for their Main street. Why is twenty minutes good enough. This is not a bus service that will take you all around buffalo. The "bus" or "trolley" is something anyone can hop onto at a moments notice, be lazy and get off where ever they want, and spend money at a location of their choice. The circuit continuously circulates people in and around Main st. that is currently a ghost town. Hopefully, business' will like a constant flow of people and and begin to open shop on Main st. It's OK to want more in a city that some of us Love.

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Maybe the Main Street Corridor needs an organization like the Elmwood Village Association. This Association can be a liaison (spelled wrong, I know) between businesses, residents, the politicians and assist in revitalizing the neighborhood. It worked on Elmwood, it can work here. Heaven knows our politicians aren't doing anything to improve downtown.

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That already exists - it's called Buffalo Place. The difference between it and the EVA is that Main Street downtown is (primarily) a central business district rather than a pedestrian-oriented retail avenue, and the business associations have different priorities accordingly.

replied to downtown resident
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I'm not sure if it's GPS-based or not, but the new cars are touted as having an automatic announcement system which, if it's anything like the ones they have on the newer buses, would indeed be GPS-based.

And honestly, having recently been in Washington DC on their system (a model that Buffalo would do well to emulate, as it includes several different routes all coming from different suburban areas into the city, for a truly REGIONAL system), one thing that struck me as very useful were the electronic signs in each station that announced the number of minutes until the next train (and in DC's case, what colour line it was on). You don't even need GPS to implement something like that. They already know how long it takes to travel between stops. Just use the data collected by the controller that indicates what section of track a train is on (as it passes switches and signals) to indicate how much longer until the next train.

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