City January 6, 2011 9:48 AM

The "us versus them" debate has blinded us so much that we seem to forget who we're fighting for in the first place.

The “us versus them” debate has blinded us so much that we seem to forget who we’re fighting for in the first place.
By Allie Friedman, Deputy Director Buffalo ReformED:

I listened to a broadcast on Tuesday, December 14, from the Capitol Press Room with Susan Arbetter and NYSUT President Dick Iannuzzi.  Among topics discussed were charter schools, one which Arbetter, the host, called a "hot button issue."  "It's like walking into a den of snakes," Arbetter joked.  It is important to note up front that while Arbetter works to maintain an unbiased view of charter schools, NYSUT is one of the biggest sponsors of the Capitol Pressroom. Back in July, my colleague Katie Campos appeared on the Capitol Pressroom with Susan Arbetter to talk about charter schools. Listen here and judge for yourself if Arbetter is unfairly biased against charter schools and school reform.

In the recent broadcast,  Arbetter asked Iannuzzi if he'd seen the movie Waiting for "Superman."  He responded, "I haven't had to see it because I spend a great deal of time doing research about responses to it with my terrific leadership at the AFT, Randi Weingarten, and my leadership at NEA under Dennis Van Roekel."

Interesting.  Imagine if a student told his teacher that he didn't have to read War and Peace because his classmates had already read it and their opinions counted as fact and were just as good as if he had read the book himself.  Ianuzzi explained that he has spent a lot of time analyzing the movie, so he is "well aware of it."  That is like the same student writing an essay on War on Peace using only Spark Notes.

Iannuzzi continued his commentary on Waiting for "Superman," expressing his opinion that although the movie is a "great piece of cinema, it is fictitious or half the story; it clearly leaves out anything about public schools which succeed in 95% of the situations."  The film really must be a "great piece of cinema" if Iannuzzi didn't even have to see it to believe it.  I wonder how simply analyzing something that a person hasn't actually watched, read, or listened to, can give that person the authority to make such bold statements?

Arbetter brought up Governor-elect Andrew Cuomo's legislative agenda, which includes charter school expansion.  Iannuzzi responded, "The question isn't more charter schools; the question is how we open them, how we make them accountable, and more importantly the question is what do we do with the other 97% of public school students.  If we don't concentrate on them we're making a mistake, so charter schools become a diversion from the larger picture; so I ask that the Governor be looking at the 97% and the 3%."

First of all, accountability is the very essence of charter schools.  By nature, charter schools trade accountability for autonomy.  If these schools don't perform, by law, they are SHUT DOWN.  I don't think there is any way to make them more accountable than pairing operation with academic results.  Second of all, what happened to the public schools that Iannuzzi says "succeed in 95% of the situations."  Now we have 97% of public schools that are being left behind?

Arbetter continued to ask contentious questions about charter schools.  "If you have engaged parents you're probably being read to anyway, already a step above the child who doesn't have engaged parents and doesn't put their name into a lottery.  What I have heard traditional public school educators say is that the 'rest' remain to be educated, so you have the cream of the crop that is being lifted up and the rest are being left, basically to be educated at the school house gate?"

I'm not sure what Arbetter means by the "school house gate," but it seems that she believes that charter school parents are the only engaged parents that want to see their children succeed.  So, now we have Iannuzzi's "public schools that succeed in 95% of the situations" with unengaged parents?  I'm confused.  I think it's unfair to assume that public school parents are unengaged.  It's as simple as this: supply equals demand.  There are thousands of children on wait lists for charter schools in New York State.  Many of these children are still enrolled in the traditional system with engaged parents who want the best for their kids.  And there are thousands of children in charter schools, children who once failed in the traditional system and are now flourishing in their new environments.  Charter schools simply offer a choice for parents where parents previously had none.

Iannuzzi went on to criticize charter schools for their inability to educate special education and bilingual students.  He blames charter schools for sending these children back to their district schools.  However, by law, charter schools are prohibited from using the same tools that the traditional schools have access to which would help educate this particular group of students (BOCES programs, for example).  Since charter schools do not have access to these resources, many parents who have special needs kids are leaving charters to go back to schools where programs are available.  This is not a fault of charter schools.  Give charter schools the same tools that the traditional schools are provided and strides can be made to solve these problems.

Lastly, Iannuzzi referenced the city of Albany, saying, "When you create a system with such a large percentage of students in charter schools, you drain a significant amount of dollars away from the public schools, making it impossible for them to meet the increased burden that they have for students with needs."  Iannuzzi seems to forget that a third of the dollars that should come to charter school students remain in the district for students the district is no longer educating.  That money supports teacher salaries, pensions, and all other costs associated with running a school.  Clearly, the law protects traditional public schools.  With a third less money, charter schools have to supply their own facilities and pay for their own transportation, costs that are reimbursable to district schools.

I have spent a lot of time in the Western New York charter schools (17).  I've had the pleasure of seeing engaging classrooms, exciting teachers, and enthusiastic families.  I've also spent time talking with charter school students about their lives.  I've heard heartbreaking stories of homicide, prison, poverty and abandonment.  The "us versus them" debate has blinded us so much that we seem to forget who we're fighting for in the first place.  The children in charter schools and district schools are the same kids.  They all deserve a quality education and our efforts to make it happen.  I hope Mr. Iannuzzi will make a commitment to spending more time in charter schools (many of which include his unionized members), than he did watching Waiting for "Superman."     
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I've checked out the RefjormEd website and I have one question: What educatiional experience, other than attending school, do any of you have? You're kinda like Arne Duncan, Bill Gates, Kitty Black, Carl, etc.. (Working for Sam doesn't qualify as experience.) I don't want corporations running my schools. I want educators in control, not businessmen or ladies in waiting. Can BRO stop pushing this obscene agenda?

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While I would agree that the article may have strayed from its intent, lets be wary of tagging something as an "obscene agenda" when it does not fit with more a traditional perspective of how education should work.

Prior to his current role, Arne Duncan oversaw numerous successes in managing Chicago's public system, despite his "business man" demeanor. Michelle Rhee was tremendously successful in managing the Washington D.C. district, but was recently removed from her position for promoting an "obscene" agenda that challenged the status quo.

Charter schools by default cannot be the only solution. It is simply not practical given the size of the problem. However, they can be an important part of a wider solution, and merit further study. Dismissing this as "obscene" does little to improve our current state, in which the US education system significantly underperforms in comparison to its peers.

replied to BFLOwatch
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Neither Duncan or Rhee are sucess stories. Chicago schools are a disaster as a result of the Daley machine. Rhee was self proclaimed lousy teacher, yet a great self promoter. If she was such an advocate for the kids of Washington she would have stayed and finished her job.

replied to Quaker
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Michelle Rhee was forced out of her role in Washington D.C. and therefore could not continue her efforts. Please review the following article from the Washington Post that recognizes the improvements made in the school district and provides an understanding of the political circumstance of her dismissal. While the educational improvements are undoubtedly not solely a result of her action, we cannot deny that there was in fact improvement in the district. We must also note that her efforts have not entirely been a success, and learn from her experience.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/18/AR2010081806726.html

As for Duncan Arne, while I agree that the "Daley machine" has made educational improvement difficult in Chicago over the past 20 years, we cannot presume that his policy was a "disaster" because he did not markedly improve the school system. In fact, the jury is very much still out on his performance, with some pluses and many minuses. It is important to note that I evaluate his tenure based on performance, not on anecdotal extremes. Please review the following for a synopsis on his efforts:

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/193

Rather than make unfounded claims based on anecdotal evidence, I would recommend leveraging what I presume is your American education to create a more compelling argument. Ultimately, this discussion is not about who is right or wrong, but truly about searching for viable solutions to a challenging problem. Please review the following article to see how a large public school in Massachusetts has significantly improved its performance:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/education/28school.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=brockton&st=cse

Once again, we should look at all of these as examples for us to consider rather than dismiss one or the other based on sentiment or bias.

replied to BFLOwatch
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You say "I've checked out the RefjormEd website and I have one question: What educatiional experience, other than attending school, do any of you have?"

Who is to say that having experience working in the educational system is what provides the background to making positive change? Perhaps the education system needs people with a fresh take. The fact that any parent in Buffalo would resist that work that BuffaloReformEd is doing (which is a non-profit, NOT a corporation) is appalling to me. All we know is that the current education system is not working, so if it takes people outside of the system to get some change enacted, I am all for it.

Additionally, instead of unnecessarily focusing on the pedigree of the people behind BuffaloReformEd, study the mission statement of the organization: "Buffalo ReformED will make WNY a hub of world-class education by providing every child, regardless of race, ethnicity, or zip code, the highest quality education and the most effective teachers." And at the very least realize that BuffaloReformEd has been essential in creating the dialogue that is rising in Buffalo right now about how to fix the school system.

replied to BFLOwatch
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I'm a little unclear on what the point of this article is. Are you really trying to argue for a new vision of Buffalo schools that includes Charter and Public schools equally, or are you just trying to put down the opinions of Arbetter, Iannuzzi, and The Capitol Pressroom? If you want to write an article on BRO, fine, but at least make it concise and a more factual. Don't just recap an interview and give your opinions. And for being an article about schools, try and proof read a little better. "Whom we're fighting for" and "Capitol Pressroom".

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When the executive director doesn't even have a NYS teaching certification or a Master's and is one of Hoyt's cronies, then your credibility is quickly going to be questioned.....

And the assistant director's qualifications are that she covered the sports teams for St. Lawerence with it's 2300 student enrollment which is comparable to Lancaster High School's total enrollment....

Just some pawns for the charter moneymakers.....

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I'm only leaving one comment here in hopes to avoid any back and forth, so let's hope I can get the poitn across well enough. That doesn't mean I'm going to be any less restrained than usual, however.

The article title conveys that we are lost in a partisan battle and therefore lose sight of children's needs. The author then prepares to strap on combat boots and man the cannon, so to speak. Complete and utter hypocrisy! If there is to be collaboration for childrens needs, it is not facilitated with arguements like this.

Also, thre's a valid point to be made in saying Charter Schools only serve a minute portion of our population, regardless of whether they do it well or not. Coming to the aid of Charter Schools will not raise the bar for most children, however well it raises the bar for children that gain entrance.

The way I see it, you can't go replace a window at the Central Terminal and call it a successful and complete rehab project, catch my drift?

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I think it's obvious charter schools are doing something right. I think it is a matter of figuring out what specifically they do best, and incorporate it in public schools.

Whatever happens though, should first be implemented in elementary schools. That way, the achievement gap won't be as large, and teacher progress would be more accurately measured.

I would like to see a public boarding school for the City. I think that would be a game changer. (Perhaps Richardson Complex?) This would be a boarding school along the lines of the SEED Foundation, with schools in Baltimore and Washington, DC. Just a boarding school for children from 4th grade to 8th or 9th grade. It's there during puberty, and also gang recruitment years.

I think there is something to be said about parental engagement. Open House nights at City high schools are desolate. Many times, it's the immigrant parents who come. This could be due to the lack of neighborhood schools. But, it could be for other reasons too. Charter schools do have active PTAs. If I'm not mistaken Applied Tech has a very large and active PTA. Ironically or not, they also have great success as a school.

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There is yet to be any conclusive evidence that charters perform any better than other schools. The jury is still out yet charter advocates continue to claim they are superior. Most studies have found no difference when charters are compared to schools with similar demographics and levels of parental involvement. There is a place for charters but lets not just accept the opinions of those with an agenda as gospel.

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The funny thing about Waiting for Superman is that the film didn't even have strong facts. I didn't understand what all the huffing and puffing was about from public school folks.

It's been found that 1 in 5 charter schools do better than public schools. I don't make stuff up. That's fact.

The film did little to support itself other than to show the plight of children and opportunity of going to a new school via a suspenseful lottery system. If you watch the movie, look at the facts they show. It's kind of weak. I would have expected more.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Are you saying we should shoot for the lowest common denominator of educating students? I think the Buffalo Schools should raise their standards instead of continually lowering them.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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My comment had nothing to do with "lowering standards or shooting for the lowest common denominator". But since you brought it up I will respond, School performance is directly related to the wealth of the district and students. The only sure way to improve performance is to address the underlying cause, poverty. All else is simply treating the symptons, we need to find a cure.

replied to bobbycat
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You said in a previous post that school performance is heavily tied to parental involvement. Charters have a big advantage in that the student body is made up of kids with parents that are engaged and supportive. You are saying here that school performance is linked to wealth. Is it possible that parental involvement and wealth are linked. Maybe it is true that the poor are lazy and unmotivated as workers and parents. Poverty may actually be due to personal attitudes and choices of the poor. You may actually agree with Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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In the same previous post I said "School performance is driven by the demographic of the student body and the level of interest of the parents". You said "School performance is heavily tied to parental involvement".

Parental involvement and wealth are related, poor people struggling to get by are less likely to have the time or energy to be as involved. Poverty is not a choice but is a cycle that is very difficult to rise above. Most of the poor are not "lazy or unmotivated" but have not had the same opportunities or advantages most of us take for granted.

replied to bobbycat
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The cycle of poverty is broken by providing a high quality education. Poverty is a symptom of an unequally educated society. We can't control poverty, and we can't control the situation children face when they go home, but we can control the quality of education each child receives when they are in school. Charter schools are not the silver bullet to reforming education, but they are providing parents with a higher quality option that they didn't have-- the opportunity and advantage that you mentioned. Thousands of families are on waitlists for charter schools because they want more high quality options for their children.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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We really don't know if charters provide a "higher quality option" as you claim, they do have some advantages but their history is yet to be written. Data is very inconclusive so far as I am sure you are aware, both sides cherry pick to support their agenda.

As for overcoming poverty, of course a decent education is important but the ability to earn a fair wage for a days work is also required. We need to respect and reward all work, however humble and pay enough to allow a person to support themselves or their family. This reform would be the most effective way to impact education.

replied to katie.campos
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Until public schools can cherry pick the students that walk through the door the charters will maintain their luster. (Curious to know what percentage of charter students vs. public schools are 'special ed'.) And where do those students too tough to handle at the charters go after they leave the charters? [Maybe they should go to another charter.]

How about a mandatory lottery for all kids? And why not mandate that once a charter student, always a charter student. Then we'd really know how much better a charter school really is.

Until teachers can choose which students walk into their classroom, basing teacher evaluations [or school evals for that matter]on student results is a flawed system and denies teachers and public schools a level playing field.

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City Honors, Olmsted Middle, CR Drew, Performing Arts, and others all cherry pick their students.

Are you saying that we can't hold teacher's accountable for their performance because the system isn't equal? Are you serious?

replied to getzvillain
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to getzvillain point:

Can we get a real head to head evaluation of both models?

I would like to see a Charter take over a historically poor performing school and compare the results; See what they can do with a population of students that are given to them, and not ones that must opt in.

Hand over East HS to a new Charter. Show me what you can do.

replied to getzvillain
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With the financial backing of M&T, School 68 became Westminster Charter School.


http://www.westminsterccs.org/aboutwccs/schoolhistory.asp

replied to al labruna
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I was trying to click on the links for a report card on them, but none worked. Is there a link where I can find out how they do on their tests?

-Thanks

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The Westminster Community Charter School state report card is here:

https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb-rc/2009/88/AOR-2009-140600860874.pdf

I think it's an open question just how much these test scores really tell us about whether a school is "good" for our children.

replied to Greg
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Reginald -

Thanks for the link, Im not too familiar with WCS but it could be an interesting comparison.

Im not sure if it is a scientific head to head experiment tho. Did they take the same student body from the PS? Did they retain the building/equipment/supplies from the previous incarnation? Was there an opt in (or out)? Im sure there are many other things I have not thought of. But you get the idea.

Im sure you know what Im saying. So, lets see it. Lets evaluate it. Otherwise its all just words and theories (and more than a touch of political philosophy).

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Just an FYI. Westminster has a score of 3 out of 10 on the GreatSchools.com website. This site report on almost 100% of public schools in the nation. City Honors? 10 out of 10. I believe the high score for CH is due to many of the positive influences mentioned in this forum.

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Like most folks Im torn on the issue of Charter schools, but reading propaganda pieces doesnt endear me to the cause. Im all for an honest debate - but this is little more than a partisan press release than real dialogue.

Please, keep it to the facts - the pertinent facts.

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I've really done a 180 on charters. Open the flood gates and create aa many charters as there are Human Fund orgs on Delaware Ave. Only then will we find that...just like the publics...some charters will do well but most will flatline. Charters are NOT incorporaing any new doctrines or philosophies, until we alter our whole perspective on education (i.e. Ken Robinson)it'll remain status quo. But thanks BRO for jamming this down our throats yet again, nice journalistic integrity.. as usual.

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Thank you Allie, this is a great piece of information! Its only with enlightened individuals like yourself we can hope to change the culture of "us-them", its all about "us", there are no "them".
Please continue to bring sun into darkness-and lets get those trolls out into the light!

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4 matic> "Open the flood gates and create aa many charters as there are Human Fund orgs on Delaware Ave. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_z3RTwIWOw

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those of you complaining about Buffalo Rising's "journalistic integrity" and "forcing their agenda" on the readers, I ask again- WHY DO YOU BOTHER READING??.. go surf sites that more closely align with your views if you have an issue with the slant of the authors on this site. Plain and simple. I don't read or watch Glenn Beck or Hannity etc, because I disagree with their view points. Stop torturing yourselves and don't point your browser this way. You voluntarily visit the site and then have the nerve to complain about the perceived bias? SERIOUSLY?? Save yourself the agony and try to forget this site exists. The rest of us would appreciate it.

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You really didn't mean to write such a blatantly idiotic comment did you? Thank you for clarifying that BR is off limits to any criticism and while I appreciate your concern for my mental health I would however suggest that you consider your own advice and memorize my name and skip over my comments and read only those that mirror your own viewpoints, as everyone knows that trying to understand other views through debate is detrimental to learning & growth. Conveniently your name here parallels that singular myopic mindset.

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I listened to Arbetter's interview with Iannuzzi as well and think the author's comments here are excellent and right on. What propaganda? The only propaganda is that Arbetter's show is supported by NYSUT. Additionally, a large number of charter school teachers in Buffalo are members of Iannuzzi's union - teachers he fails to represent. Good job Buffalo ReformED and Buffalo Rising, and thank you for having the courage to continue to bring these pressing and important issues to the forefront. (fyi - Arbetter's show is The Capitol Pressroom - the author is correct)

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I listened to Arbetter's interview with Iannuzzi as well and think the author's comments here are excellent and right on. What propaganda? The only propaganda is that Arbetter's show is supported by NYSUT. Additionally, a large number of charter school teachers in Buffalo are members of Iannuzzi's union - teachers he fails to represent. Good job Buffalo ReformED and Buffalo Rising, and thank you for having the courage to continue to bring these pressing and important issues to the forefront. (fyi - Arbetter's show is The Capitol Pressroom - the author is correct)

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I admire the work Buffalo ReformED is doing. Regardless of what side of the party line we all stand on, not one of us should be complacent with the status quo of the Buffalo public education system. Especially considering its current state, stories like this are important because they show us that the focus that the teachers union has on their salaries and the surrounding politics is detrimental to the education and opportunities our children receive.

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I noticed there are two posters that created an account to comment on this article. Both support the author and charters, could just be this story was the first time they felt motivated to comment or could be they are associated with the effort. just saying.

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Make that three new accounts to comment in support of this story.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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I have lived in Buffalo for 17 years and have been reading Buffalo Rising for the past 6 months or so. There have been many articles I have wanted to comment on in the past, but this was the first I felt compelled to comment on. Whether you agree with the piece or not, I wanted to stand up for the work that BuffaloReformEd is doing. With two kids in grade school, I am interested in their work and want to see our schools improved. When I saw the first comment on this article from BFLOwatch, I had to respond. So I did.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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Of the six new accounts that were opened to comment on this article only SCBuffalo and katie.campos disclosed a connection to Buffalo ReformED. In the interest of full disclosure it would be reasonable to ask bflomom, Gladys366, QueenCityEd, and yourself if you have any connection to Buffalo ReformED.

replied to NYmom
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Buffalo ReformED is making a difference. We've got a great city with great potential, and any organization that is trying to improve a child's shot at a meaningful future should be commended. The article sites the fact that "By nature, charter schools trade accountability for autonomy. If these schools don't perform, by law, they are SHUT DOWN. I don't think there is any way to make them more accountable than pairing operation with academic results."

We need MORE institutions that value accountability in this city.

Thanks for the great perspective.

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It's hard to measure accountability with distant achievement gaps. You could measure percentage improvements between years, but that doesn't account for the gap well.

You need to focus on primarily elementary education. Poor performing students shouldn't be passed on to the next teacher. It becomes a snowball effect. And then after a lot of students become like this, a school fails.

replied to Gladys366
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An odd coincidence: a whole lotta first time posters here.

Astroturfing or listserve?

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Make that four new accounts just to comment on this story.

replied to al labruna
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All comments agreeing and disagreeing are great. At Buffalo ReformED we are trying to shift the debate from "politics" to good schools and bad schools, and sometimes that means exposing the politics and special interests that are more concerned with protecting adults than educating our kids.

We didn't send out an e-mail to our listserv asking them to comment, but we welcome all to join our listserv at www.BuffaloReformED.com

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In the interest of full disclosure, I should start by saying I'm Sara Campos, Katie's older sister. Katie started and runs Buffalo ReformED. Now that that's been taken care of, I'll go ahead and comment.

It seems to me that the biggest issue here is that the title of the piece sets the reader up for an entirely different article. That's unfortunate, but not actually the fault of the writer. If you'll take a closer look, you'll see that the title is just an excerpt from the article. It's a strong statement (that I happen to agree with), but it doesn't work well as the title of this story.

Moving past the editorial error, there are a few comments on here that actually deal with the issues. That's exciting. Whether people agree with the author or not, it's exciting that people are fired up and moved to act - or at least type. When you stand up for something you believe in, there are always going to be people trying to take you down. In reality, it’s the easiest thing to do. Knocking something (or someone) down is a lot easier than building something up. Unfortunately, it’s not quite as useful. I propose that we stop wasting our time – let’s take a look at what it is we’d like to build and look for the best tools to get us there. What constructive criticisms do you have? What are your ideas? Let’s work together. Or, if not together, at least we can work towards a common goal, one that I assume we all share: to better the lives of our children and prepare them to lead us into the future.

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Appreciate your honesty, it is rather suspicious that so many new accounts were opened just to support this story. Thanks for disclosing your connection.

replied to SCBuffalo
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What is so suspicioius of having new commenters arrive for a story they are interested in, or have an agenda regarding, BRL? Why does that make you take a seemingly defensive stance? Your union dependency is shining like Rudolph's nose.

replied to Blackrocklifer
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"Union dependency"? Say what? I have never belonged to a union and have worked in management for the past 30 years.

If you can't see something a little funny about thee new accounts then you just aren't looking. Lets see if these folks continue to be "interested" in other stories here on BRO.

replied to bhorvath
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I actually have an old personal account on BR, but couldn't remember my information to sign in. I also have a BR account related to my work that I use regularly to post event information. But, I didn't think it was appropriate to make personal comments under a business alias, which is why I created a new account today.

Aside from my own reasons, I don't think it's suspicious it all that so many (I think your last count was 4) new people have created accounts. In fact, it's pretty exciting. More people are entering into the conversation - people motivated by this specific topic. I don't think that's so bad. What's wrong with hearing from a few new voices? Shouldn't we celebrate something like that?

replied to Blackrocklifer
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As long as those "new voices" are honest about their motivation (as you were) I have no problem but it appears some of these posters have a vested interest in advocating or charters.

replied to sara.campos
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a bunch of new commentators doesnt necessarily mean new voices are being added to the dialogue. on the internets, its easy to create an account to misrepresent the support for your side of an issue. its also easy to bus in new voices via listserve.

is that really a dialogue, or is that just shouting down others at a town hall meeting?

replied to sara.campos
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Three young gals decide they are going to work to reform education, yet have no backround in education. Why not actually work in a Buffalo school before using this very wide brush to paint them all as dismal failures. The argument that parents are more involved in charters is bs. There are very acitve parent groups in Buffalo schools. This whole piece is just more droning rhetoric from the charter school machine.
Public schools bad charters awesome!

replied to SCBuffalo
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My son attends a charter school in the city of Buffalo and I am a public school teacher of 24 years. I am impressed with the dedication to research and using what works with students that is on display @ my son's school. Writing a charter and knowing what is taught and why it is taught is critically important for educators in their schools. Research shows that small student/ teacher ratios result in better results and this charter GETS that. They have Americorps assistants, classroom teachers, special education teachers, and aides in each classroom. Student/ teacher ratio in my son's class is 7:1. Student/ teacher ratio in my own public school classroom is 19:1. Which do you think produces more educational opportunities for kids to get differentiated instruction? I have issues w/ funding & kids left out of the lotteries,but status quo in public education isn't working and I really like what I see in this charter.

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I have issues with foundations that are FOR-PROFIT entities trying to education our populace......Some charters do succeed due to parent involvement (CSAT) and some fall flat on their face due to a total lack of parent involvement (KIPP, Stepping Stones, etc) --- Maybe the true issue in this entire struggle is not the teachers but in fact the parents/guardians that sometimes do little to prepare their children for school or guide them along the way --- It's safe to say that parent involvement is generally a strong precursor to student involvement. If parents would care, then students care......When they don't care and place no value on education then the entire system struggles....

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Parents have been disenfranchised for years from public schools. Charters are trying to change that. They welcome and encourage parents to be part of the community. What makes a great school? A caring atmosphere where children's needs take presedence over adult needs; where all teachers have a voice, are regularly reviewed, involved in creating the review process, mentored and receive ongoing real professional development; where principals are strong instructional leaders; where excellence is expected and demanded from everyone in the community. It just can't get any worse in Buffalo. Pumping money into school buildings, though aesthetically pleasing, doesn't raise student achievement. The cost of education continues to rise while graduation rates remain flat. Nearly half the students who enter city high schools don't graduate. Thirteen Buffalo city schools are listed by the state as persistently low achieving. How can this be acceptable to anyone in this community?

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Charters aren't really any better than public schools. Charters are subject to the same godawful ridiculous political posturing and fighting over ever-contentious dollars. Step up to a 30,000 ft view and the entire thing is absurd.

Public education does not necessarily mean public schools.

The only way to solve the critical disaster that is public education in America is to kill off public schools. Give dollars to parents so they can decide where their kids should go to school (or EVEN BETTER, don't take their dollars in the first place!), give tax incentives for private scholarship providers (and public assistance dollars for poor parents, obviously), and get governments the hell out of our schools entirely.

Your precious "public schools" system has systematically FAILED. How many more dollars are you going to leech from the public to continue the pathetic experiment?

Score: -6 ( 10 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Have public schools really failed?

Poor schools have failed, not necessarily public schools. I would guess many suburban parents wouldnt want to throw away *their* public schools.

replied to Jesse
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Can you tell me how this country became what it is if the public school system and ( I have to add, public libraries), were such a historical failure?

replied to Jesse
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I am really impressed with the comments on this article! I think that the new accounts reflect a growing interest in education. It is refreshing to see at last that the role our schools play in the survival and progess of the city are indeed pertinent.

The dialogue in these exchanges has been relatively free of the usual blame game positions and ideological language most often seen in this forum when this topic arises. People seem to be speaking from positions of knowledge and experience.

There appears to be a consensus or at least an acknowledgment that poverty is a causal factor that plays perhaps the most crucial role in "underperforming" schools. And that the schools reflect the community which they serve. And that the challenges that exist for schools every where are the result of complex influences with no quick, simple solutions to serious problems.

It seems, based on past discussions, that contributors here are now more willing and/or more capable of seeing beyond the urban/suburban or rich/poor or parent/teacher/administrator or union/tenure/salary/merit pay debates. And that charter schools are just one strategy suggested and implemented to help deal with enormous challenges. Great article and responses!.

Score: 1 ( 3 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

People never cease to amaze me on these comments. They start off by attacking Allie and Katie at Buffalo ReformEd, who have dedicated their work and personal lives to education. If you can't pick that up from the Web site, I suggest visiting them on Charter First Fridays, in the countless interviews and blog posts they do to raise awareness about educational issues, or the events they bring to the public. They live and breath education in this area, they've worked at relationships with administrators, instructors, and students in countless schools, and have been in more schools than probably all of the people who left comments combined. THAT's the experience they have.

As for the charter vs. public school debate, I'd like to raise one question. Most of the comments on this blog revolve around test scores and statistics. Although those answers are important, I still think there's one answer that reigns supreme. What I want to know is where are charter school students 10 years after they graduate compared to public school students and private schools students? We need to use those statistics and that knowledge to improve public schools, private schools, and charter schools.

Score: 2 ( 6 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Good question ... the charter school movement in Buffalo is still very new, only a decade old. The schools that opened 10 years ago were elementary schools. The high schools are newer. Another 5-10 years out ought to show impressive statistics.

replied to Leah
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Leah, you are very correct in many areas. I am not so sure that I see direct attacks on the authors, their organization, or their mission. They are clearly eminent in the field and have their fingers on the pulse of education at a local level.

Test scores have become an obsession as they have become the nearly exclusive measure of success from each individual student to the teacher, the principal, the school, the district, etc. They are misused and often abused in what has become a high stakes competeition with serious consequences when performances are low. But, it is the only universally accepted concrete statistical measure available to quantify outcomes.

IMHO, they do not truly measure a school's success or failure, but it is easy for people to understand...somewhat. As we can see, it is used to compare everything in education. It provides those who are not insiders at least a "common language" for measurement purposes. The debate will rage on, but I think the arguments presented here were discussed in a reasonably intelligent way. Thanks to the input of experts like Allie and Kate everyone had a place to begin instead of throwing out just anecdotally and ideologically based opinions. It seems to this reader that the civil discourse expressed by contributors is implicit evidence of the respect paid to them.

Tracking people 10 years after they graduate would be nice, but it is impossible. But one can dream!

replied to Leah
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there's never one answer that "reigns supreme" but if you ever find it, be sure to let us know.

replied to Leah
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