City January 6, 2011 12:15 PM

Sound Familiar? Demo by Neglect in Toronto

Sound Familiar? Demo by Neglect in Toronto

Christopher Hume covers urban issues and architecture for the Toronto Star.  Many of the subjects he covers are very "un-Buffalonian."  With a strong economy and booming construction sector producing both good and bad architecture, plans for a remade Lake Ontario waterfront moving forward, and debate on how best to accommodate significant population growth in the region, there's plenty enough to keep him writing.  But Toronto also struggles with something we are very familiar with: saving our historic structures. 

A six-alarm fire, suspected to be arson, struck an historic 19th century commercial building on Yonge Street in Toronto on Monday.  The red brick building was constructed in 1888 and once housed the Empress Hotel, considered to one of Toronto's finest when it opened.  Demolition crews are at work today removing what the fire did not destroy after it was determined the building's façade could not be saved.  The property was listed on the Toronto's Inventory of Historic Properties and its owner had no interest in preserving it.

Substitute "Buffalo" for "Toronto" and you'd swear Hume is talking about our city.  The following column appeared in yesterday's Toronto Star, reprinted with Hume's permission below.

Heritage remains a burning issue in Toronto

5325621280_c8be602d30_b.jpgThe past may belong to us all, but not the buildings in which it unfolded.

The difference was made painfully clear this week when the 122-year-old building at Yonge and Gould burned to the ground.

The dignified red brick building, once the Empress and Edison hotels, has occupied a place in the collective consciousness of Toronto for decades. The public never wanted it to go away.

But to its owners, the Lalani Group, it was an obstacle to profitability. They had been trying to get rid of the structure for ages, and made no secret of their intentions. In 2010, they applied for a demolition permit. Given the city's lack of commitment to heritage preservation, it would eventually have let that happen, but not without a lot of hand-wringing along the way.

Other cases have had happier endings. Think of the old Summerhill train station/LCBO on Yonge St.; it was restored by its owners several years ago and has never looked better.

The critical difference was the owners. Even if governments at all levels were serious about heritage, it's the landlords who hold the power. Because legislation is weak and enforcement weaker, owners can get away with architectural murder.

The list of disappeared buildings is long and extensive. The most relevant was Walnut Hall, the last remaining row of Georgian townhouses that was left to fall apart by its many owners, including the RCMP. Its sad fate led to a 2007 city initiative aimed at ending "demolition by neglect."

Landlords, good and bad, have always been with us. The point is that we have yet to figure out how to deal with properties that fall into that awkward space claimed by memory and money, public and private, cultural and corporate. Architecture is an art form as well as an economic activity. It exists in the public realm of ideas as well as the private landscape of mortgages, building codes and leases.

In Canada, however, property rights trump heritage niceties. Government, when it does get involved, tends to be more preoccupied with public safety than cultural integrity or architectural excellence.

Given the quarter-to-quarter mentality of many developers, it's easier for them just to tear something down than expend time, imagination and worst of all, money, adapting old buildings to new uses.

Yet there are countless instances where refurbished heritage buildings have increased owners' coffers, and made them heroes in the process. Some of them are in this city.

It's tempting to believe that in a more evolved civic culture these vandalizing tendencies would be controlled. From Fort York on, Toronto has never really grasped the meaning of its own heritage. A century ago, the city ran streetcar tracks through the historic garrison and in the 1970s tried to move it to make way for the Gardiner Expressway.

In its own way, the story of Fort York sums up this city's preference for expediency over heritage. It's easier to get rid of things and forget, as we all must.

Yet it turns out that the city even offered money to the Lalanis for restoration, money never accepted. That would have amounted to a commitment to restoration, which would have cost millions; the city offered $32,500. If the building had been designated a heritage site, not just listed, it would have been eligible for tax breaks.

That hardly matters now. The last remaining question is, where will it happen next.

More:
Toronto Star Editorial

Preservation-Ready Facebook Group

5325617432_bb2d92d80b_b.jpg

Photos by 'apta2050' on Flickr.

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sad to see this happen, i see in it nyc all the time

the difference is that toronto is a real city where another building will end up on this site very soon instead of it becoming surface parking. we are just left with urban holes and nobody will the balls to fill them

Score: 7 ( 13 votes ) Vote up Vote down Report this comment

Buffalo, like Toronto, needs to adopt a much more punitive, strict policy regarding these types of landlords. Their (in)actions are not isolated, and impact neighboring structures and neighborhoods.

Yes, Toronto is dealing with a different set of issues: hyper-growth, where progress is progress at any level.

Mark my word: Buffalo could head in this direction, but progress at any expense is not progress; our current progress is emanating from the fact that we are finally honing our authenticity and heritage..and making it our future. Let's not lose it and work very hard to protect what we still have.

(ok, let the negatrons chime in now....)

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Yes we are just like Toronto - sheeeeeeeeesh Please take a look around you we are not Toronto or Chicago my friend. Compare us to our peer cities such as Plano Texas, Stockton California, Lexington Kentucky and Ft Wayne Indiana, all of which have larger populations than Buffalo, and please stop with the mind numbing comparisons to NY, Chicago and Toronto. We are not a big city anymore, nor have we been for at least 30 years. Those days are gone. We are a region of 1,584,000 WNY'ers with another half million within 20 miles of the border in Canada surrounding a City of 250,000. 8 out of every 9 residents in this region do not live in Buffalo and few of those visit it with any regularity. Look at the buildings around the one in Toronto and you will see they all have something buildings in Buffalo do not have - they are called TENANTS.

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Sally> "Compare us to our peer cities such as Plano Texas, Stockton California, Lexington Kentucky and Ft Wayne Indiana, all of which have larger populations than Buffalo,"

Take off the tear soaked glasses and you will see this is not the case. Central city population figures are obsolete when comparing them to communities that can annex their burbs or otherwise expand their boundaries. The metro areas are a much more consistent indicator for community population.

Plano TX- 71 square mile suburb of Dallas (6 million metro)

Stockton CA 695k metro

Lexington KY 453k metro

Ft Wayne IN 414k metro

Buffalo NY 1.1 million metro

Aside from Dallas, which is one of the largest metros in the nation, the communities you listed are much smaller with two being less than half the size of Buffalo-Niagara.

I know it hurts when people don't buy into the local loser company line and make comparisons of Buffalo to larger cities. Just because the article mentioned an event that occurs in Toronto, Buffalo, and Ft. Wayne, doesn't mean they feel these cities are otherwise the same.

replied to Sally
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So you're saying that Buffalo does compare to Toronto? I love both cities, but I'd have to agree with Sally that they are in different leagues.

replied to The Kettle
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So now you are trying to say that it is more relavent to compare Buffalo to TO where the mtro poulation difference is 4 million than it is to compare Metro Buffalo to Stockton where the population difference is less than 300,000. That's just loopey.

replied to The Kettle
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Sally,
You know that it's faulty to compare incorporated city sizes in the U.S. because of the widely different ways cities have changed their incorporated boundaries. Indianapolis and Nashville and many other cities are counted as city-county areas; if Buffalo could legally count its city population this way, it would be about the 11th largest "city" in the country. Incorporated city population is an outdated and increasingly meaningless index of a region's vitality.

replied to Sally
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Sally, NBuff,

What EricOak said:

"All this article tried to do was point out that Toronto also has preservation issues (troubling issues, in fact). "

An issue that also come up in Buffalo on a regular basis. That is all.

replied to Sally
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It is also loopy to throw a tantrum whenever the words "Buffalo" and (insert name of larger city) are used in a sentence.

replied to Sally
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yeah, those are pretty silly comparisons, Sally.

replied to Sally
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True Buffalo should be considered with cities smaller than those I listed because they are all significantly larger than Buffalo. A better comparison might be Boise or Gary indiana.

replied to townline
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We may not be a "big city anymore" but unlike the places you cite we have the advantage of past greatness. Buffalo has a built environment and cultural legacy that rivals all of those cities. In fact we probably have more than all those cities combined.

replied to Sally
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Bravo. That's all that needs to be said.

replied to Black Rock Lifer
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We may not be a "big city anymore" but unlike the places you cite we have the advantage of past greatness. Buffalo has a built environment and cultural legacy that rivals all of those cities. In fact we probably have more than all those cities combined.

Who's to say that those places he mentioned don't have the advantage of past greatness? How do you define greatness? Just because some people say it's great doesn't make it great. Just because we used to be the 8th largest city in the US doesn't change the fact that we're the 70th largest city today.
A statement like that highlights one of the things wrong with Buffalo: We look to much to the past and not enough to the future. We could easily give Buffalo the nickname: "the used - to - be city." Everyone in Buffalo knows the routine: you're driving around and people will say this building used to be that. Or this building used to be that.
Look I'm in favor of preservation when it makes sense. But you've got to pick your battles wisely. Not everything can or should be saved. A knee - jerk reaction to save anything because it's old and arguably historic dilutes any effort to save what's worth saving.

replied to Black Rock Lifer
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We were the 8th largest city in America and at the turn of the 20th Century we had the most millionaires in America. From that legacy we are fortunate to have a high quality built environment. This is the result of our past prominence, none of Sally's examples ever reached that level of importance.

Our future is dependant on exploiting these great resources of architecture, quality housing, and our natural environment. They are our ace in the hole, a long term investment requiring some patience to see dividends. Trying to make Buffalo into some cheap imitation of other cities will only diminish our city.

The "we can't save everything" mantra is getting old. We have demolished much more than we have saved, if that trend continues our future will be compromised.

replied to pampiniform
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Sally,
You warp this whole discussion by your comparison of Buffalo to Fort Wayne. That's just the tired schtick of someone who enjoys slapping up the down and out. Have you ever lived in Toronto? Unlikely, or you wouldn't have such a jaundiced view of Buffalo. Try living there for a few years and see how much joy you take from the mongrel quilt of buildings, cramped but uncharming streets and soul-killing highways that slash through Toronto.

So here are some questions: What thoughtful person judges the meaning and value of a city based on its size? Apparently, people like you and the moronic hockey player who needed more neon and strangers to make him feel safe at night. Do you find random people in Toronto racing from drug store to their squashed apartments meaningful? Why do the anonymous tenants of Toronto's unsightly Yonge Street have more urban value than the people who live off Allen Street, or Elmwood, or Hertel, or my brother who lives in downtown Buffalo?

Why have you missed the whole point of this article?

replied to Sally
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"Why do the anonymous tenants of Toronto's unsightly Yonge Street have more urban value than the people who live off Allen Street, or Elmwood, or Hertel, or my brother who lives in downtown Buffalo?"

Toronto is a booming metropolis, yes Allen, Elmwood and Hertel are nice, but trying to compare the downtowns is laughable. It's really ok that you believe Buffalo has a leg up on all these places, but it seems a bit of whistling by the graveyard. We all have eyes and can observe the realities, both good and bad of what the city has to offer. No need to have the inferiority complex.

replied to EricOak
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Buffalo was "booming" once too. Who cares? Cities rise and fall, and their trendiness, especially in such a fickle, attention-deficit culture like ours, is a poor measure of what they really offer. Have you lived in Toronto? Do you know what it's like to live there on a daily basis? I do, and to be plain and simple: it's overrated.

All this article tried to do was point out that Toronto also has preservation issues (troubling issues, in fact). In some ways the preservation issue there is almost moot--so much of the city has been defaced already that Toronto is arguably one of the ugliest cities in North America. That may not mean much to you if your only measure of a city's worth is the number of anonymous people rushing to get home from work. Or the number of identical beehive-dense high rises you can count. But for many people, the physical look of a city, the sum of its beautiful and not beautiful parts, quietly but profoundly shapes the meaning they find living there. And there are other indices as well:family history, geographical features, the complex memories and reactions one builds living in a city that has seen both might and plight.

We need a new way to appreciate cities. Instead of stats and figures that don't reveal textures and contexts, in place of boring fads and trends, instead of counting people and jobs, we might understand places better by looking at them on their own terms: through the lens of their own particular history, by minding their aesthetic profile, and by respecting the lives of people who live, work, and commit themselves to that place.

Otherwise cities will be comparing themselves to exhaustion as they struggle to become more and more alike. This is the disease that's already infected North America, and I'm grateful I live in a place that has been somewhat more resistant to it.

replied to nick
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One of the best comments I've read on here in a long time. . .

replied to EricOak
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We all have our own opinions and that's fine, but when you say living in Toronto is overrated, there's about 2 million people who may disagree with you. Some may find hustle and bustle and those many cookie cutter high rises as testaments to growth, prosperity and a different way of living than in Buffalo. Creating a new paradigm to judge cities is fine, but prosperity is prosperity, and Toronto currently has it, Buffalo does not. I work in cultural resource management, I have a history degree, I know what you're talking about, but respecting and studying people's lives, the culture and all of this does not matter if you're hemmoraging people and there is the perception that your city is dying. You and your neighbor may know it's good, but when you're the only two people at a restaurant it closes.

replied to EricOak
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Nick,

You're assuming that all the people who live in Toronto live there because they really want to. That's not true--many do love it; many do not. I knew many people in Toronto who did not like living there, as I did not. As in any mega-city, many people live in Toronto because they have to live there for work or family reasons. There are not many very large cities in Canada; you just don't have as much choice there.

Also, I don't think prosperity is simply prosperity. To measure a city simply by its economic status, to me, is like judging a person simply by his or her financial status. I doubt you would do that. The question of "prosperity" is also more complex than stats can reveal. There is still tremendous wealth in Buffalo, but it's concentrated in the old Brahmin families.

I do think culture and history matter to a city's value, no matter how anemic its demographics. I'm trying to change the way people understand their own and other cities. Understanding, not judging, is a better way to move forward. A city can be bleeding population and still be a rewarding place to live. New Orleans and Buffalo come to mind. We should be aggressive in pursuing prosperity, sure, but we shouldn't succumb to a shallow media view of our city or to a purely statistical account of its worth.

replied to nick
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You are the most ignorant poster on here. If Toronto sucks so much how is it it grows by almost 100,000 people a year? How many people do you think love living in Buffalo? What is it's growth rate again? Feeling the love yet?

As for people living in cramped spaces. I bet most don't care as it's a trade off for being right in the thick of things. For many people in large cities a condo or apartment is just a place to sleep and do laundry. More of a storage locker with amenities. The city being their living room. If people hate it in Toronto so much how has that city managed to maintain the largest construction boom in North America for the last decade? People must be staying.

Again, bashing Toronto dose nothing for Buffalo and makes you look sad and jealous.

replied to EricOak
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Excellent comment, I think this is the closest anyone has come to describing the depth and complexity that defines the relationship many have to our city. I think it is the bold contrast between old and new, beauty and ruin, rich and poor, all in constant flux that stimulates the soul in a way that just isn't possible in most of America today.

A well known poet was once my close neighbor and we would often talk about this idea. We both recognized the unique beauty and proud heritage in this humble and neglected old neighborhood. His appreciation of this place helped longtime neighborhood residents see their home in a more positive light. Our city needs more such advocates.

replied to EricOak
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Thank you. I tip my hat to your crisp and elegant comments.

replied to Black Rock Lifer
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Whatever your smokin, I want some.

replied to EricOak
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Have you been to Toronto?

Yonge Street has always been a mish mash of bright lights since around the time Buffalo was called the city of lights. It's been that cities Broadway for over 100 years. It's one of many main streets that city has. Like Braodway it's not meant to be pretty but a place of 24 buzz and life.

And why are people rushing from drug stores to their condos? I don't get it. Seriously, what was up with that comment. Unlike in Buffalo the people of Toronto can walk home and take their time in the many vibrant areas of their downtown core.

Also how can you say Toronto is slashed with a bunch of highways. Look at a Google map of Toronto, then do the same for Buffalo. Then also take into account the massive population difference.

Finally how can you say Toronto is one of the ugliest cities in North America? Again, have you been their? Last time I checked they had just as many old structures that just happened to be lost in a sea of new build. If streets full of people, well kept buildings, patios and down each road, maintained city parks, and an active and expanding waterfront park are ugly to you then yes I agree.

Bashing other cities and turning a blind eye to Buffalo's issues does nothing to improve things in the Queen City. But if that's what makes you feel better I suppose you can continue living in your fantasy world.


You post was an embarrassing show of a classic inferiority complex. We can discuss Buffalo and work on changing things without having to insult other cities. Some of your points were good but got lost in the garbage you spewed.

replied to EricOak
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I wouldn't get too worked up-a lot of people in Buffalo do have inferiority complexes, which I find really unnecessary-it is a great, great city.

Fact is-it is a different city, a very unique city. What makes it appealing is that it is NOT NYC or Toronto or LA: congested, pretentious, "big city lights". It is charming, struggling, real, and quirky and, at one point, had been quite wealthy (yes, there is still some wealth, but not wealth that is participating in the embetterment of the city.)

I think Buffalo and Toronto could and should be great sister cities, and complement each other. Want that big city experience for a weekend? Go to Toronto. Want that earthy, gritty, rust belt, historic experience? Go to Buffalo for a weekend. It's not about comparing-it's about complimenting.

replied to AndrewJM3D
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Interesting that a country that mandates Canadian artist play on radio stations would not be more protective of architectural cultural assets.

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How does that have anything to do with the topic here? Just because the federal government of Canada wants to try to protect their music industry from outside dominance doesn't mean that they'd be any more sentimental towards old buildings.

replied to The Kettle
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Both are elements of culture. Read one of these national register applications that are published on this site to see the connection between "old buildings" and civic, or national identity

replied to pampiniform
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Let's get back on topic here, folks. Who cares what size city we are, or how we compare. Buffalo is Buffalo.

Let's work to stop these negligent owners!

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Then why post the article comparing the 70th largest city in the US to the largest in Canada?

replied to Travelrrr
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You did not read the story did you?

replied to Sally
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I think the point of the article was that we sometimes think of Toronto as being such a progessive city, yet they have the same constraints on saving historic buildings.

I travel to TO monthly and I am amazed at the lack of concern for the historic fabric. 18 months ago I saw a number of early 20th century 3 sory buidings on Yonge and Bloor boarded up. I thought for sure they would be incorporated into the new condo development there. To my dismay 1 month later they were gone.

I give tours of Buffalo Architecture during the summer and I am getting more and more Torontonians. They are amazed of the quality here in Buffalo, especially in light of our TV news. They also lament the lack of concern over the historic fabric in their hometown.

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the size comparison is relevant and here is why...

if a city like Toronto, which is much more powerful and has more leverage via demand for prime r/e, does not have the backbone to stop people who destroy history or implement laws with teeth, than Buffalo has that much less of a chance to stand up to jerks like that. the city of buffalo needs their tax money so bad they will never do anything to scare off business (i.e., implement preservation laws)

therefore, its sad but true that there is no hope for this in Bflo, we can only fantasize about stuff like that here

this artcile falls in line with 90% of the news that shows up on this site (fantasy over reality)

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SM> "if a city like Toronto, which is much more powerful and has more leverage via demand for prime r/e, does not have the backbone to stop people who destroy history or implement laws with teeth, than Buffalo has that much less of a chance to stand up to jerks like that."

This is from the above article:

"In Canada, however, property rights trump heritage niceties. Government, when it does get involved, tends to be more preoccupied with public safety than cultural integrity or architectural excellence."

Thankfully in the US we have things like NEPA, SEQR, the National Parks Service, and local preservation districts that help prevent, or reduce the amount of wasteful demos. I'm surprised to hear there aren't similar preservation policies north of the border.

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I know Toronto; I live in the city centre. You cannot compare Buffalo to Toronto,for Toronto is the cultural, financial and demographic hub of the whole country ;whereby all immigration does or eventually migrate here. Buffalo is only a third tier city in a state; therefore, the comparison cannot be fairly made. Toronto presently is enjoying a prosperity whereas, Buffalo had their day in the early part of the century, but my city is starting to frey and is manisfesting the ills of growth and congestion whereas, Buffalo may be stagnant but appears serene and promising in quality of life issue.

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Thanks for weighing in-glad to have your input. Buffalo, in fact, is also having a nice renaissance on some levels, but not nearly on the levels that Toronto has enjoyed. In any event, I don't think the aim is to try to compare/be like Toronto, but to benefit from the proximity of the cities; if Buffalo plays its cards right, it could offer a really nice offering for Torontonians who want a taste of an authentic, historic neighboring city.

Buffalo (and I don't even think our Convention Bureau) has not done nearly enough to market what we have to Torontonians: theater, art, architecture, etc. A different "quality of life" as you put it.

replied to defender110
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holy sh*t people, the reason that Toronto and Buffalo ever get compared is because its RIGHT THERE ACROSS THE LAKE. Its a city thats on the same lake, gets the same kind of weather, has the same neighbors as us.

Therefor, anything Toronto can do Buffalo should be able to do too.

The topic of THIS article was to Demo by neglect and i dont recall the author trying to say anything about "omg, Toronto and Buffalo are exactly alike in 343,446,457 ways"

Frackin cry babies. Get yourselves some comprehension skills and try to stay on topic.

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Exactly - People should read the story before commenting

replied to WNY_Nick
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Look Nick, I hate to be pedantic, but Toronto isn't across the lake. And I'm sure you've noticed that we aren't even on the same lake. The rest is pretty much true.
Otherwise I don't see what the point of this article is(yes Steel, I did readit). What does it have to do with Buffalo? Why should we worry about what Toronto is doing? I thought this was supposed to be a website about what's happening in Buffalo.

replied to WNY_Nick
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well, y'are pedantic Blanche...y'are. We are not in a bubble, and demolition by neglect effects other cities, even more prosperous ones, as it does Buffalo. The point is to see how others are effected, and dealing with it-as we should. Toronto is clearly still finding its solution.

replied to pampiniform
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Best comment so far on this page.

replied to Travelrrr
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ok Mr McNally I'll bite, exactly which lake is it that Buffalo and Toronto share?

replied to WNY_Nick
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Metro Buffalo has an entire county fronting Lake Ontario.

replied to Sally
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since when is buffalo on lake onatrio

{deleted- flaming}

replied to WNY_Nick
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I agree with what you're saying, eccept Buffalo - Lake Erie, Toronto - Lake Ontario.

replied to WNY_Nick
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I still don't see what the point for this article being posted is. It doesn't say anything that you can't find in hundreds of BRO posts. What does it have to do with Buffalo? It doesn't say anything new or offer any solutions.

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You don't see what a story about demolition by neglect has to do with Buffalo?

replied to pampiniform
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Well, I can see how the article is about demolition by neglect, albeit in Toronto. And there has been demolition by neglect in Buffalo. But I'm not sure how this article makes any meaningful connection between the two cities. The column the article cited basically decries that fact that Toronto doesn't appreciate their heritage. It doesn't offer anything particularly meaningful or new in Buffalo terms. That's why I don't see a connection here.

replied to The Kettle
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We were the 8th largest city in America with more millionaires than any other city but we aren't that anymore. We have the built environment of what was once the 8th largest city that we have to maintain at a huge expense to the residents. This is all the more reason that we shouldn't piss away our scarce resources on suburban sprawl and useless expressways to ski resort towns. This is also the reason that we should protect our natural resources and take them back from Albany's control. We are pissing away our future by way of old ways of thinking. It is high time to think of Buffalo 2020 instead of Buffalo 1950.

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When we were the 8th largest City we had 318,000 people now we have 276,000 people not much difference in population, but in demographics when we had 318,000 we were prosperous and wealthy now we are poor and crumbling. It is the quality of the citizenry not the quantity that makes the difference.

replied to skybox
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Soon this city will consist of a small population of old money rich and upper middle class living in the renovated historic residences and new construction and the lower middle class and poor residing in the rest of the city. The remainder of the middle class will exit this dying metropolis for the suburbs or places interested in urban renewal by the year 2020. There will be less than 150,000 people left within the city boundaries with a government large enough to run a city 3 times the size.

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all you doom and gloomers concerning the cities future must have the wool pulled over your eyes or something.

I would agree fully with your comments if this was anywhere between 1970-2000, but we are in a bit of a turn around here. anyone who cant see that the city proper (and even the suburbs) are on a relatively strong upswing in the last decade, with even more promising projects on the way in the future is blind.

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What turnaround? Since 2000 the percentage of poor has increased, the population has decreased, the assessed valuation has decreased (when adjusted for inflation it has decreased significantly), and the vacancy rate has increased. Show me a real stat that has improved since 2000 for the City proper?

replied to jim1234664
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Sally - that's all true for most cities since 2000. Most people are poorer and worse off then they were 10 years ago - this was a horrible decade! Anyway, I'm bored with all these stats and the tired line "show me something that has improved for the city proper." You have to look at the region on the whole. The suburbs benefit from Buffalo and Buffalo benefits from the suburbs. YOU might not care about theatre and art and achitecture and other things the COB has to offer, but it's there, and other people do care about it and take advantage. I guess you haven't been to very many places if you think Toronto is so great. Like it or not, Buffalo and Toronto are in the same geography and do actually have some similar characteristics.

Not all of Buffalo is poor and crumbling and your beloved suburbs have their crappy areas as well. Amherst isn't perfect.

And regarding population, if it sinks to say 150k? So what? The areas where people actually live and go out (Delaware, Elmwood village, Allentown, Chippewa etc.) will be just as busy in 5-10 years as they've been for the past 10 if not busier. No one will notice the decline because people don't go to the areas of the city that are losing the most. Can you honestly notice that there are fewer people in the COB than in say 1999? I sure as hell can't.

replied to Sally
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I don't agree with the comparison.

Preservation statutes on this side of the border are much stronger. The City of Toronto has a heritage buildings register but it does not empower the city to deny a demolition permit. Unlike New York State the Province of Ontario does not give municipalities the right to interfere with demolition permits for heritage structures. Here, if a building is landmarked by the City, good luck getting through the Preservation Board gauntlet to secure a demo permit. And thank goodness!

Hence the constant destruction of Toronto's historic fabric for new, sometimes garbage replacements. The only tool the City of Toronto has is its Zoning Bylaw, which by strictly limiting height and density (say, on Queen Street or Younge) has placed limits on the incentive to demolish modest heritage buildings for new, very tall ones. Even if this building hadn't burned, the City would have been forced to give the owner a demolition permit. Here at least we are a bit more progressive and have that option through the City landmarking process, though it isn't the only tool needed to prevent deterioration by property owners who have no means or will to maintain their heritage buildings.

Ontario also offers no incentives whatsoever for heritage preservation. The Department of Interior has had them on the books for decades, and New York State now offers its own added, if so far imperfect, historic tax credits.

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Certainly, the result (the loss of historic structures) is the same. Toronto benefits from prosperity but possesses inadequate, almost nonexistent preservation statues. Buffalo benefits from strong preservation laws but does not possess the economic conditions to keep many of its landmarks standing.

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That's a good, compelling argument. But what do you propose we do here in Buffalo to keep our buildings standing without the economic conditions to do so? I'm not arguing that we should tear them down, mind you, but I am curious to know what we should do to keep them standing? And is every old building in Buffalo worth saving? Are there cases where we could reasonably trade an old building for a newer building with an benefit to the local economy (that one is a more hypothetical situation.

replied to chris_hawley
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