Owner Seeks to Demolish Significant Portion of Grain Elevator

Hell NO.

This is one (of many) instances in Buffalo that make me wonder...why bother owning the land if you're just going to spend a boatload of money to demo everything? It has to be terrible waste of money in a city full of equally viable vacant lots. Or isn't it? Are all these businesses stupid or am I missing something?

These large industrial buildings make the First Ward an interesting place. So at the same time some are trying to make these special places more accessible others are trying to make these areas less special.

Karl, what "development" is going to take place once these places are demolished?

This is absurd, and this demo must be stopped. How many decades will it take before we realize demolition for demolition's sake is a horrible revitalization strategy?

This will never happen. The informed citizenry in this city would never let it happen.

OSC's demo application is on this Thursday's Preservation Board's agenda. The meeting begins at 3pm - room 901 City Hall.

I like these old reminders of years gone by as much as the next guy. Have kayaked past it multiple times, but have to say that that place is a dump. It really is a rusted hulking dump.

All of a sudden grain silos that have been ignored for 30 or 40 or 50 years are in vogue. I get it. But it appears from this article that OSC is trying to keep the structurally sound (and "historicaly cool") sections of the complex and get rid of the rusted crappy parts to expand and build a new business there.

So let's see, the guy owns it, he has cited parts of it as being dangerous, he wants to eliminate the liability and he wants to put the land to use for his business.

Isn't that a good thing?

Calling it an "interesting backdrop" to Peg's Park is fine and dandy - parts of it will still remain - but if you want to beef about anything here, beef about the folks who cited the previous owner and never enforced any of the ordinances.

Thursday's Preservation Board agenda - http://tinyurl.com/23bqvsm

OSC is just looking for a pay out - the community should sue them for all of the things they've taken from Buffalo over the years.

However, when it comes to these piles of dogcrap, there isnt much of a reason to hold on. Nobody who has any money to their names can come up with a viable plan for these things and they're getting worse by the day.

Must we continually let a few preservationist vagabonds stand in the way of something...

To the "leadership" of Buffalo:

In case you haven't noticed, or cared to notice, Buffalo is gaining HUGE, INTERNATIONAL acclaim for our architecture. Our grain elevators are no exception-in fact, a book has even recently been written about our "Concrete Atlantis" http://vanishingpoint.ca/elevator-alley.

So, you do understand that EVERY time you allow demolition, either by neglect or by outright actions, you rob this city and its citizens of future economic potential in the form of adaptive reuse, tourism, etc.

I don't care if the owner "determines it to be unsafe"-let's get an independent assessor in to make a judgment. Seems to me, given the company at hand, this is more of an opportunistic scenario than anything.

Buffalo leaders: get some cahones and do the right thing: devise a preservation strategy, work with your concerned citizens and foundations and get a grip. Otherwise, plan to explain to future generations why you have sold them down the river in the name of neglect.

WELL....if that's the way you feel....then just pull out your wallet and purchase the property...WHAT?...you say your pockets are empty??
But ...you wanna tell someone else what to do with their property?
How would you like someone else to tell YOU WHAT you can or cannot do with your property or possessions...Keep you nose and empty wallet out of someone else's business!
This is why Buffalo will never be anything but a 2nd class city!
This demo could be the beginning of a new development, or project that enhances the waterfront.
Everyone wants to preserve the past...ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S DIME!

We ride through this area often in summer on our boat when lake is wavy...and if this is the same/correct building I am thinking of it is in serious disrepair and actually a hazard. Pick and chose a couple of the grain elevators to save. Most are sitting there rotting away. Take a ride through there it is incredibly vacant & depressing and feels like you are on horror movie set.

ArmchairMBA>"what "development" is going to take place once these places are demolished?"

That's answered in the 2nd paragraph of the application to which WCP linked:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1gnelCV6muxeUCJcOvcUWHL-EplyplJU_UI9d_9hot42PkOpDG-DSrPYxmpaq&hl=en

"The structures in groups B and C will be demolished. The resulting area will provide usable space which will accommodate two new business groups. One business will be for the sales, rental, and service of heavy equipment and the other is for an industrial product manufacturing and demonstration area. OSC currently lacks space on a frequent basis to conduct its company business without the full impact of these ventures."

WCP's article conveniently stopped aburptly after that paragraph's first sentence ("The structures in groups B and C will be demolished.") without also including the three sentences that followed which answered Armchair's question before he asked it.

The development on this privately owned property would be industrial and allow the business to expand its operations.

Demo! Lawsuits? Insane.

Look, I like silos, too. They're cool looking, they're a reminder of the thriving grain transfer business which defined Buffalo's waterfront prior to the Welland Canal opening more than 50 years ago. Got it. Should we strive to keep some around? Sure. Do we need all of them? For what possible earthly uses? What realistic use is there, now or in the next several decades, for structurally unsound, crumbling silos in locations which are off the beaten track, (to say the least)? Name one possible adaptive reuse that doesn't require oodles of subsidy and thriving surroundings (don't even get me started on 'hotel conversions', etc.).

You (those commentators above lining up to oppose this) appreciate how the silos look and their relevance to Buffalo history. Fine. Got it. Come up with ideas for their re-use which appeals to the owners and won't bankrupt them or us taxpayers!

When you (lawsuit threatening interlopers) fantasize that you have some inherent right to dictate to private property owners what they may and may not do with their deteriorating vacant industrial structures you alienate me and the vast majority of both area residents and taxpayers, imo.

Let this property owner/developer utilize the property which they purchased in the way they see fit with their own resources. You don't like their use? Buy your own! Offer to buy theirs. Do something constructive with your own purchase instead of dictating that structurally unsound and commercially useless remnants of yesteryear be forever enshrined at others people's expense just for your fickle sense of aesthetics. I may have to make time to show up just to show support for this.

Sounds as though they want to keep the historic sections and demolish (on their own dime) the unsafe non-historic sections.

We shouldn't be asking "What about me or what I want to keep historic".

We should be asking "What is best for our neighbors and future residents?"

It's easy to say "Hell No" or to criticize.

It is difficult to get involved, stay informed and support those things that make a difference.

@ blo,

The City of Buffalo owns two of these monumental structures - Cargill S, located at 2 Buffalo River and Concrete Central, located at 175 Buffalo River.

The City did own the Wollenberg Grain Elevator - which was rebuilt/relocated from the water front to Koons Avenue - which burned to the ground in 2006.

Grrr. I hate it when people tear down useless, dilapidated, buildings. It makes me soooo angry.
I say put IKEA in the grain elevator.
Grrrrr.

The funny thing is, if this thing was being built today, you'd all be appalled as it has no windows, and isn't built to the curb.

We need to know precisely when this guy purchased this parcel.

We also need to know precisely what type of industrial business that he's running that he would need to keep the grain elevators but then demolish the building.

Something tells me that OSC is a shell company (recently formed) with no operational activity currently on site.

Do you notice that BLO has no facts what so ever, he just spouts off a bunch of "I think" and "I bet", which really means that he knows absolutely nothing. Get a life buddy.

So let's put this in lehmans terms..
The rightful owner of a structurally unsound historical silo wants to demoliish the non-grain elevator part of it in order to re-develop the land so unclearly definined business can take there. He may or may not be seeking government funds. Preservationists are trying to stop this (this is where I get lost) for what? What is the alternative plan for this privately owned property, and what is so special about this one that makes its preservation necessary in order to carry out this plan?
I'm not trying to sound facetious. These are logical questions that need to be answered in order to justify keeping this property around.

How long until "eventual" becomes actual? What are the time constraints on "at some point in the future?" And why this property above all others?
I agree that there is potential for obvious public benefit and I'd love to see it come to fruition, but how long should private business people be impeded in the name of eventual adaptive reuse for public benefit? How much longer should this property be allowed to rot before something constructive is done with it? Preservation has its merits, but the time is now! You want the building, come up with a plan and put it into action. S&$% or get off the pot.

I'd also like to know how much of OSC's demo business is from City contracts. If almost all of their business is derived from city contracts, then I'd like to see how much they've given to politicians. There are a few conflicts of interest that we should consider, especially if they end up receiving rehab monies.

*** This suspicion is warranted, only because of the corrupt practices surrounding the City's use of HUD grant monies (the Brown Administration being under investigation by the FBI and all).

Finally, something positive happening on the waterfront! We boat by this place all the time. Run down unsafe hazard. I am not sorry that Pegs Park will have to make do with a lake view and sunset as a backdrop like most parks would not kill for that. Anyway, this probably will not happen anytime soon. Like the Elmwood Hotel and countless other projects, a select few will start a lawsuit believing in their tiny closed minds that they are speaking for all.

I have one simple question. When is demolishing and redeveloping a property OK? If the developer was willing to cover the entire demo bill without tax dollars would it then be OK?

the preservationists defending these silos need to go on that one show..Hoarders.

preservationist: "stop the demo"

person with brain: "sure, why?"

preservationist: "beacause it is historic"

person with brain: "ok - what are you going to do with "

preservationist: "well...the city could, uuhhh"

person with brain: "they dont have any money"

preservationist: "well, uh, somebody is getting rich off of this"

person with brain: "my head hurts"

It is absurd that there is no plan to address what has been rotting on our waterfront for decades. I'm not saying that everything has to be saved or that everything should change over night, but come on. This is nothing new, its not like business will all of a sudden start using the erie canal again and these structures will fill their orginal use.

Richardson and Statler are in much better areas for development and both are vacant.

I stand with Blo. There is no common sense in tearing down historical structures for parking (or, at the very least, no proposed plan). There are huge lots available all over the city for a demo operation. Why here?

A thought to the conservative property rights advocates: You can't just keep supporting people's "rights" to tear down private property on that basis alone. If you do, how do you feel about me buying the home next to yours, tearing it down, and then putting a billboard up that specializes in ads for area strip clubs? There needs to be some consideration of the public interest, however much this scares you.

Also, does anyone not recognize that OSC basically bought the structure...to tear it down??? That is their business model. However, it is our "business" as well--people will be investing into other parts of the waterfront, and visitors will come to witness our architectural assets. Knock this down and we lost that inherent value.

IT MUST BE SAVED! IT MUST BE SAVED! IT MUST BE SAVED!

We need to save the last remnants of our rich history! There are so many things that could be done with the elevators. These would be amazing condos. These would make amazing recreational buildings. They would make amazing art spaces. They could be so much more than just a parking lot. Buffalo has too many parking lots already. We must stop this at all costs. Our heritage is too important to risk in the hands of myopic business owners.

Additional GLF pics are available in this series - http://www.flickr.com/photos/fixbuffalo/sets/72157625578863306/

I've also included a couple shots in "Peg's Park" looking towards GLF.

Arguing over grain towers?

C'mon Maaan!

These grain elevators do not exist in isolation but are part of a grouping of similar structures. It is this concentration that gives this area it unique personality and appearance. Taking down a piece here and a piece there will slowly chip away at that critical mass until eventually the area will become just another nondescript industrial zone.

Even the casual observer cannot help but be impressed with these massive buildings that represent our industrial past. They are just as impressive in ruin and pose no real threat to safety nor do they stand in the way of any grand redevelopment project at this time. In a city with vacant acreage it would seem there would be less of a need for demolition. We should encourage developement by filling some of the existing vacant parcels before clearing more. Each loss can never be replaced and makes Buffalo a little more generic and a little less interesting.

PARKING FOR EVERYONE!!!

What has Buffalo gained from all the demolition that has occurred during the past few decades? Did I miss the redevelopment that all of these wonderful property owners initiated on their vacant properties over the years that turned Buffalo into a boom town?

It's frustrating to read comments essentially saying that unless you have money then you have no right to complain; if you don't own the property then it's none of your business. Heritage is everyone's business and people have every right to be angry every time articles about another threatened structure appear. Spending millions to recreate history under the skyway is acceptable but supporting preservation of real history just a short walk away is not? I don't understand Buffalo's priorities.

No entity has come up with a viable role for the grain elevators. True. Of course, no one has come up with a viable role for all the vacant land that has been idle for decades but I don't read too many comments complaining about that.

How long until the mighty Tim Tielman swoops in to file a lawsuit?

This city is so fuched!

Elevator Ally needs to be designated a Historic Preservation District, like Allentown. That way, we'll have safe guards in place to prevent the further decimation of OUR CITY.

if anyone cares about these places, than get donw there and do something about it

- chatting on a forum about how it should be saved is worthless. there is more to be saved and these things are #15 behidn things like statler, richardson complex, plenty of houses

- wait until one collapses and hurts someone, than who are you going to cry to

give it up - you idiots didnt even care about this crap until someone wrote an article about it

knee-jerk preservations live on forums, not in the city

Buffalo has a long tradition of demolition, few buildings survive from our earliest days. As the city grew it was necessary to demolish many old homes and buildings to make way for the rapid growth of the 19th and early 20th Century. It was not uncommon to clear whole blocks for the construction of a new church, factory, railroad, or business. In many cases homes were moved or dismantled for salvage.

Generally the buildings that replaced those that were demolished were more substantial, of better quality, and contributed to the beauty of the city. Today it is rare to see a new build reach that same level and in fact usually those new builds are bland, uninspiring, and add nothing to our city.

Where was everyone when Ketry tore down one of his buildings on the river? He illegally tore down the boiler house to his Grain elevators and no one said a word. Illegally for that matter. Dumping asbestos directly into the river that you all so casually kayak down. FACT. Roam on that one Buffalo.

The GLF buildings are shot and have been for years. Have any of you been in them? I have.

Save them all so that we have a city full of ruins. And more people move away. Brilliant plan. Genius vision.

We can't even figure out how to fix the Statler yet people on here are trying to save a grain elevator that is extremely isolated and a HAZARD. Repeat HAZARD.

What can possibly be done to re-use all the grain elevators not in use and in serious disrepair...what PRACTICAL use is there? Seriously...pick 1 or 2. Not everything needs to be saved.

There are many buildings left in Buffalo to save that represent our rich history, these rusting rotting hulks do nothing but represent the demise of our city.

Can it be converted into a Butter Lamb factory?

I think it's time for the city to ban recycling companies and scrap yards in the city of Buffalo, talk about debeautifying the landscape. Perhaps OSC would reconsider.

Does anyone else think it is ironic that we tore down the H-O Oats Elevator so we could build the new Seneca Casino only to have the steel framework rusting away as the project has stalled?

Buffalo is trying to show off its rich architecture and believe it or not the Grain Elevators influenced the modern architecture of Europe.

If you don’t believe me Google the British architectural critic Reyner Banham ,who taught at the University of London and SUNY Buffalo, and wrote the book, “The Concrete Alantis”.
Also check out "Reconsidering Concrete Atlantis: Buffalo Grain Elevators" Which will give you a history of the grain elevator and may make you rethink tearing them all down.

This will sound crazy I know but consider this; What if we began an all volunteer group consisting of design and construction professionals as well as concerned residents and preservationists that were able to assist owners of these properties to see other possiblilities? This would be free of charge and possibly lead to future business. If nothing else it will show owners with little vision or design literacy what alternatives to demolition can be.

Any comments on this crazy idea? Thanks in advance!

I'm all for preserving beautiful historic structures, but just because something is historic doesn't automatically mean it needs to be preserved. Those grain elevators were built for utility, to store grain as efficiently as possible, not to be regarded for generations to come as beautiful architecture. 90% of visitors to Buffalo see those rusting industrial eye sores on our waterfront and think they have suddenly been thrust into an episode of the History Channel's "Life After People". Save 1 or 2 for a museum of how grain was moved across the lakes and tear the rest down. An aesthetically pleasing waterfront would be much more valuable than a grave yard of rusting, crumbling, industrial structures. Would you save the Airport Plaza Jewelers building if it was historic? C'mon people.

Anyone who is arguing that demolishing a compelling building in order to accommodate a parking lot should watch this with an open mind:

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/121

knock em down...these things are a disgrace..Buffalo will never be confused for being a progressive city, but holding on to eye sores like this because they once brought wealth to this area is the sort of logic that brings this whole area down.....history shmistory...get a clue....I guess they should have also saved Snakeland from being knocked down..the history and integrity of metal heads in Kenmore deserved better

I liked a lot of the take by Mark Goldman's brother in the forum on the waterfront.

He saw adaptive reuses for some silos and I thought some of his ideas were great. Among them: use these as giant billboards to generate money for upkeep as owners preserve them. I'd go for that. A little eye pollution in exchange for the money to hold onto them for our future stonehenge. I'm okay with that. The advertisement could be creative. He suggested painting them to catch attention, a little Cristi like (one green, one blue, one orange, etc) to highlight them. I liked that idea, too. And public art. Make them walls for display of big art. I'd like that. He had a nightclub idea for the one on the peninsula across the river, and if that area is included in the harbor front project (and I think it should be) that idea might even fly. I once showed that elevator and land to Roger Trettle, who was serious about purchasing. He had what I thought was an inspired use for that elevator (just off the skyway on the lakeside): platform for two story building perched atop. Great views, condo, office. Use a shaft or two for elevators. Put a big porch cantalevered over all the edges. It would be outstanding.

There is value in preserving as many as we possibly can. I see nothing wrong with that. As far as monuments go, they are fairly cheap to maintain, being nothing but thick concrete. And I can see how a field of them will be more impressive to visitors than one or three.

I agree with all of that.

Anyone who would like to start a not for profit dedicated to the acquisition and preservation of these would likely find many allies and I am certain momentum would build over time, a la Central Terminal Preservation Corp and Richardson.

Look at the purchase price of these. You could probably buy some cheap to start. Generally speaking, these things cost a fortune to demo and that anticipated cost detracts somewhat from appeal of the land to most buyers.

But I don't think we can afford to save every last one of them. H&O would have nice to save because it was in an area where reuse was more likely feasible (and I loved someone's idea to paint those silos like stacks of poker chips).

Here in this case we have an owner of an industrial business who wants to remake their own property into something more suitable for their own business, and in the process they will preserve the more historically significant and more structurally sound silos. To me it seems like a win for all concerned. I think their neighborhood will look better without the ones they want to demo. I might be wrong, but at the moment that's my aesthetic sense.

Our grain elevators are internationally renowned to who?? Not one have I come across a tourist who traveled from another state or country to come see Buffalo's own industrial waste land.

On that note, one could see how our collection of grain elevators could become something great/unique and special to the area. But their appearence needs to be improved!!! At the moment this things are absolute EYESORES... it pains everyone I know to look at them when taking rt. 5. Who in their right mind thinks that they are an asset in the condition they're in right now?? Your crazy!!

Clean them up, seal them up, paint them, light them, do anything you can to make them look BETTER. Buffalo needs to take an aggressive stance on its horrible image. Staring with a war on rust, these grain elevators would be a perfect place to start. Do you know what they look like to a visitor from out of town?? I can guarantee that they DO NOT encourge curiousity and they definatley do not encourage repeat visits. Its things like these grain elevators that HURT more than they help!

I second the idea on banning junk yards/demolition co.s within the city of buffalo. It really is something that should be out in the country somewhere, not within city limits. Who likes looking at piles of crap coming into/out of the city??

"Blo"... "akin to the ruins of Athens or Rome" you've obviously never been outside of WNY. At any given time Rome has more tourists within the city limits than the entire population of of Erie county put together. There could be some potential here, not in its current condition. I welcome any demolition or change that improves the visual environment of Buffalo. This is not even on the same planet as something like the Colosseum or the ruins of Athens.. how silly

Buffalo has a lagging economy, widespread urban blight and many crucial businesses and residents are fleeing (or have fled) for the outlying suburbs.

Obviously the solution is to steadfastly deny developers any ability to develop land in the city, instead forcing them to retain aging industrial structures that haven't seen use in forty years and are a literal threat to public safety due to lack of upkeep. This will obviously encourage more businesses to move into the city and revitalize our hometown in the way it needs to be! Because we've got HUGE use right now for a crumbling grain storage complex, y'know.

This is not prime city architecture. This is not a vital part of the city's identity. This is a crumbling industrial remnant from a time before a significant number of posters in this thread were born.

And it's another demonstration of how short-sighted some posters here can be.

Well said. To preserve the history of the grain elevator we need to keep some...not all. There is no reason for the city not to allow this demo.

I am pretty sure OSC employs A LOT of LOCAL people. They used local labor to build their headquarters right next door to this place. They are more heavily invested in this area than probably all of the commentors on here. And they have been invested there for a long time.

As for them being a shell company, look at their rap sheet naysayers and then comment.

How many local jobs will be created by a huge video presentation on the side of a silo? I am not saying public art of that scale is a bad idea, but Buffalo may not need a video billboard right now.

I have been in both of the buildings that are listed in the above article to be demolished. They are rotted and have been for what looks like a long period of time. If we keep these, who brings them up to code? They would probably need elevators so all of the tourists could really enjoys these to the fullest. And a tetanus shot station on the way out for all the cuts and scrapes from the rusty shell.

Take a ride down Ganson. See what OSC has done. Look at all the employee cars in the lot. Buffalo needs jobs, not another piece of publicly funded art. Pick the best silo and hang a screen from that.

Why is it wrong to tear down a building that is no longer useful. Have you personally visited these structures? I have seen them up close and it isn't pretty. Sorry....In my opinion they get torn down and fast. They are ugly, hulking rotting structures that will never be able to be brought up to code anytime soon or for a reasonable price either. I took a cruise up the Buffalo river and was overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of these structures just rotting. Sitting there rotting. It really looks like Post WWII Germany. Please, lets keep a few of the structures but let's get the rest torn down to make way for some new development on the waterfront. Adaptive reuse for the silos? Not in our lifetime.

All of these structures are the muse and precursor to the modern architecture movement. Without them the skyline of every moderate to major city would not look the same. They have a major place in the international history of architecture. Not to mention the significance in buffalo and industrial history. They are worth more to the city in rough shape and standing then completely gone. we should be working the secure them and there adjacent structures to preserve the history. These structures would fit beautifull in a mixed use neighborhood. They will create a neighborhood like non other in the world. At this time "Elevator Alley" is a rare gem and it, in its entirity, should be preserved.