Olmsted Nights Winter Lights Commences

Five bucks seems a little steep.

Stopped by the tonight but we didn't know there was a fee and they only take cash or checks so we didn't head in. It looked beautiful and we will probably head back when there is more snow. I agree with LI2Northpark and think the price is steep. I think it makes the event exclusive. There are a lot of people and families that just can't afford that. They would probably make more money just accepting donations anyway- it would also keep it accessible to all people that way.

I know it's a fundraiser but 10 bucks for my wife and I to walk through the park amidst some nice lighting is kind of steep, especially this time of year. Just sayin'. It looks very pretty though.

Go only because you want to donate money. Although pretty, the experience is brief.

The length might fit small children, but the $5 a head price seems high. A family with one in a stoller and one toddling along paid $20. (Since they walked in, it sounds like they would not qualify for the $15 tix at Wegman's.) I felt for the single mom shelling out $10 for herself and a little one for a way-less than 30 minute stroll.

Families making a night of it, with activities in the lodge, are getting more out of it. But that usually involves refreshments from the cafe (reasonably priced) which adds to the bottom line. Their purchases in the gift store indicates these aren't penny-pinching families. Its unclear whether there's a fee for the horse and carriage ride.

Sorry to be negative, but I feel more obligated to advise cash-strapped families than to promote every event in town. As a neighbor, I wish they had a $20 season pass for an individual, with a comparable rate for families. Those who can afford it, should go to support the O parks.

@Travelrrr

I am not too cheap for words. I donate yearly to the Olmstead Conservancy and also just purchased their calendar as a gift. I also donate through my tax dollars as Olmstead is partially funded through public dollars. To say Buffalonians need to start to pay is an asinine statement as we are great supporters of the parks and the arts. I was simply saying that 5 bucks is a lot to ask for a walk with some lights and I'm sure the money they take in will more than cover their costs.

These comments are really helpful and will help us make the show better and add value.

To clarify a few points; while the city has become a great partner, the transition from County to City was hugely expensive and Olmsted must absorb that entire one-time cost. The dollars that the city contributes are from several pools of federal and state dollars, and do not come from city taxpayers, though your city tax dollars DO go to fund Buffalo's city parks, which are important as well. The 6 Olmsted Parks, 7 Parkways, and 8 traffic circles are all funded through grants, contributed income, earned income, federal dollars, the city of Buffalo's contribution and fundraising. That's why events like these are so important, so we can take of the parks and keep the one of the city's prized possessions in great shape for ourselves and our visitors.

Finally, to add value to the Light Show experience, we will be adding several pieces for families; cookie decorating kits for children, and a craft corner will all be added beginning next Wed. night. Once the skating rink freezes, that too will be free of charge to the public.

If the $5/person or $20/family is too expensive, I would ask what the average person pays for an evening out at a bar? If you take your kids to a place like Bounce Magic, it's $10 bucks a kid, plus everything added on like food, games etc. We offer an opportunity to get outside with your family, and take a magical winter walk, and enjoy yourselves in a non polluted environment while simultaneously supporting a good cause for your city. If people believe that to be unreasonable, there isn't anything I can say or do to change minds, but I do hope that you would consider supporting us regardless.
Thanks for letting me share some thoughts!
Rachel Lithgow
VP of the BOPC

My family went last night. To clarify a few things mentioned above:

I believe the $20/family would be in effect whether you drove in a car or walked over, because from where the "toll booths" are, they would really have no way of knowing if you drove in or not. So I assume the $15 Wegmans ticket would be accepted however you arrived.

The horse and wagon ride was $5 per head. Our 3-year-old was free. It was a nice ride, probably about 10 minutes long.

Members of the Olmsted Parks Conservancy get their family in for free once by showing their membership card (which gets punched).

My personal feeling is that the lights by themselves, while very pretty and atmospheric, are not enough of a destination of themselves to quite feel worth a $5 per person charge. If there were more activities included in the price (e.g., once the skating gets started) that would help a lot. Either that or admit people for free but charge for additional activities.

We're members of the BOPC, and I was happy paying $10 for the wagon ride and the lights walk, but I think I would have been less satisfied if I had to pay $15 on top of that just to get in. I think Rachel's points about the costs of any other sort of evening out are absolutely correct, and people will pay just as much or more to sit in their cars and drive through a light show at the Hamburg fairgrounds. I can't really justify or explain the disconnect there, but I think it definitely exists. People have strange benchmarks about how much things should cost that don't always line up with each other.

ok, i think i get it now.

we taxpayers are overburdened and shouldn't have to pay for amenities that only some of us use, like cultural organizations. so we argue that those who use them should pay the cost.

never mind that, as rachel pointed out, our city or county tax dollars do not cover the full cost of our parks and bopc has to cobble together funding from a lot of different sources. should all taxpayers be expected to underwrite the extra cost of a special lighting event that only some will enjoy?

but when we're faced with a fee for use, we complain that we are being overcharged.

pick one, folks: pay through your taxes or pay at the gate. just quit b-tching, please. if the light display is not worth $5 to you (which is less than minimum wage @ $7.25/hour!), go find an outing that is.

like everything else on the market, if you don't think you're getting a good value for your dollar, then spend your money elsewhere.

I recommend BOPC PROMOTE the one-free-admission benefit of membership! That could be the tipping point for many to join. None of the promotional materials give that information. The event's website doesn't mention it. Increased membership would provide greater financial and community support than one-time gate receipts. What a wasted membership opportunity!

Membership should grant the member all-season admission. But they should have single and family levels to correspond with various benefit levels. They have just one designation, member or not.

The Winter Night's website may be a source of confusion. Admission rates are not mentioned until just below the Flurrious section, and then with references to that weekend. So, readers might think entrance fees pertain only to Flurrious, not the entire Winter Nights. It is ambiguous.

Here it is:
" Cost: Tickets cost $20 per carload.
Pre-sale tickets are available at Wegman's, and walk-ups pay $5 at the gate (good for entire weekend)"

The words "carload" and "walk-ups" also cast confusion on whether the carload tickets apply to walk-up families. Until you get to the park, you don't know how they are counting carloads. The power of the web is that it can be updated to clarify issues.

at the risk of being a blog-hog, i just had to offer another thought.

if $5 really breaks the bank but you really want to see the lights, consider volunteering. maybe olmsted parks can use people to make hot cocoa or keep the paths cleared. you'll probably have more fun volunteering than just going to see lights anyway.

http://www.bfloparks.org/index.php/support/volunteer

disclaimer: i do not work for olmsted parks, nor am i a member or volunteer.

I went last night with a few friends and paid the fee, it was OK, but nothing to write home about. Rather sad actually. As to the fee, I don't really mind paying to support the parks, but where does the money go? Delaware Park is probably one of the shabbiest city parks in the country. In the evening with lights it looks fine, the summer months though, rather an embarasment.

Oh, the money goes to pay all of our very high salaries. You see, we're all getting rich working for a non-profit park system! Shabby? I guess you have never been anywhere outside of the City of Buffalo to see what most parks in this country actually look like.

Putting my previous comments about the admission price aside, the Olmstead Conservancy does a great job with the parks and they are anything but shabby.

i don't have issues with making donations for Olmsted...they do a great job maintaining the parks... but i would never pay for this sort of thing...what a joke. I'm embarrased if people from out of town get dragged to this by their relatives while visiting for the holidays... trying to show them what a cool place Buffalo is..... in any other city, they wouldn't charge admission

Ivan and the rest of you people are the reason the parks are "lame". You complain about everything but don't realize that there is an expense that has to be covered. Where does this money come from? It comes from events. If you care, as you say you do, pay the $5 not $50 but $5 and see the show. I wonder how many people with these comments smoke($10 a pack) or drink ($7 a six pack). Just saying these comments are unfortunate. The park is trying to do something good for Buffalo which needs it. Sad just sad.

I always appreciated Olmsted's Philosophy to make park space open to all.

I'll be in Caz Park flashing my headlights and blaring Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

Unfortunately the reality is that a lot of people have to justify spending 5 dollars to look at pretty lights that really should be free. These people also have to think about going out for a drink. Think about it…we have been sucked into this thinking that everything has to be paid for by those that use it. Which is sad. We as a people own the national forests, the national park systems and the local parks. We pay taxes that USED to pay for these quality of life assets. Now we have to pay to go into the national parks. The Federal Government has spent us into debt and taken away our quality of life. 209 Billion (6% of the US budget) is the interest on the Federal debt. That would light a lot of parks and put a lot of quality into out lives.

BUT instead we have been taught that we have to pay for every little “publicly owned” thing we do that is fun. Olmstead should be fully funded but since it isn’t rather than loose it we have to pay for the park. Sad but those that can afford it should go. And for the wealthy and corporate thieves that donate large (for they have the money) I’m sure there was a grand gala for them.

I'm not going to comment on the politics of the City/Olmsted Parks. I would just like to comment on my experience at "Winter Lights."

My husband and I have two young boys who love Christmas lights and love being outside in the snow. When I read about this event it seemed like the perfect thing to start a new tradition.

Quoting from the marketing poster:

http://www.bfloparks.org/images/uploads/poster.pdf

"Experience one of the premiere parks in the country, tastefully and theatrically lit for the dark winter nights full of magic and wonder!

Featuring a holiday gift shop, warm holiday goodies by the Lunchbox café, weekly holiday karaoke, cookie decorating, live entertainment, a roaring fire, and so much more!"

We were absolutely fine with the price, which mind you, is only quoted on the poster as:

"Tickets cost $20 per car load. Pre-sale tickets are available at Wegman’s from Halloween through the New Year at a discounted rate."

(No mention of the $5 per person rate on the poster.)

This is where everything begins to go down hill. We stopped at our neighborhood Wegmans on the way to pick up a "discounted" ticket. Cost of the ticket: $19 PLUS a $1 processing fee. And on top of that, when we arrived, the note stapled to the outside of the "Lights" entrance was the first indication that we could have paid $5 per person. My husband and I paid $20 when we could have walked up and paid $10 as our boys are only 2 & 3 years old.

I put this out of my head and was ready to really enjoy the lights, forget about the $10. The lights are beautiful, but to a lot of the comments above, very short lived. The poster makes it seem as if all of Deleware Park is lit up. In reality it is one path from the entrance to the lodge. Also, there are signs along the pathway indicating to stay on the paths This meant my boys were walking on the sidewalk only, asked not to go into the snow which seemed unfair as it looked like so much fun. I understand snow tracks may leave the display less appealing for those who are attending with the sole intention to enjoy the lights, but if that is the case, the event planners should be clear that this not a family event so much as an event for couples or older children.

So, with our two and three year old boys, who walk at a much slower pace than most adults, it took us about 12-15 minutes to walk the entirety of the lit path. We arrived at the lodge. There was not a horse drawn carriage, but a horse drawn wagon, which normally wouldn't be a big deal. We paid the $10 to take our boys for the ride. I thought this feature might redeem the evening, maybe this would be a family tradition like something out of a Norman Rockwell painting. Unfortunately, the wagon was in such poor condition that the ambiance of the lights in the park and the sounds of the horses shoes against the cold pavement was ruined by the creaking of the wagon. It should have been peaceful and serene and was instead 15 minutes of safety concern.

We arrived back to the lodge. At this point, the driver of the wagon had us remain seated in the back while a second driver boarded to do a "three point turn." The wagon literally felt as if it were going to overturn as they attempted to maneuver it back to the correct starting position.

We finally exited the wagon to enter the lodge. The decor was cute although I cannot say that "roaring" correctly describes the fire. As far as live entertainment, unless they are referring to the lovely woman at the craft table, I did not see any. Music was blasted through speakers with poor audio quality. And I do mean blasted, it was so loud my three year old - who loves to listed to AC/DC at levels that I consider too loud, while helping his Grandfather in the kitchen, was covering his ears and running.

The "craft table" was okay. That is the best I can say for it. So at this point, we have been at this "event" for about an hour, spent $30 dollars, and are pretty disappointed. We walk from the main room in the lodge into the Lunchbox Cafe to learn that hot cocoa is $1.75 for a small cup. There are no refreshments provided with the price of admission by the way, another way in which the poster is misleading. Now we go to community events all the time and are able to purchase hot cocoa for as little as 50 cents. Price of admission aside, $1.75 for hot cocoa is outrageous. I couldn't tell you the cost of the lights or the cost of the power to run them, but I can tell you that $1.75 for 6oz of hot cocoa is a huge markup.

So, $37.00 for an hour and a half of disappointment. Again, we support the community as much as we can, we are members of the Buffalo Zoo, we enjoy donating to worthy community organizations, which I believe the Olmsted Conservancy is. But, we also support truth in advertising. The way this event was touted was greatly exaggerated at best, and purposely misleading at worst. Next time just ask us for the $37.00 and tell us it's so Deleware Park can be really nice and clean for public use all year round. Don't sell it to us in an emperor's new clothes" manner.